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Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

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Guest

Guest

Cue Laurel being supportive of Diggle. 

 

No but I think it's good that Felicity helps Oliver put himself first. Because right now they know nothing about Andy, don't know if he's a ghost or not, don't know what Andy will do to them... So she has a point. Oliver shouldn't lose sight of what he wants over something that might not even be worth it. She makes a good point. 

 

Yep. I knew they'd do this. Laurel will be on Diggle's side. Ugh, the agenda disgusts me on this show. So predictable. Let's just go against three seasons of friendship. I'M FURIOUS OMG.

 

I like that Felicity is not wanting Oliver to lose sight of something he really wants to do and is passionate about. He really wants to be Mayor and it's the first time in a long time he made a positive choice for himself. So all that is great. I just don't ever believe Felicity would not want to help Diggle. Ever. It's bullshit.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

I like that Felicity is not wanting Oliver to lose sight of something he really wants to do and is passionate about. He really wants to be Mayor and it's the first time in a long time he made a positive choice for himself. So all that is great. I just don't ever believe Felicity would not want to help Diggle. Ever. It's bullshit.

 

I think we need to see context first, because I do believe that she'd tell Oliver not to go undercover for Darhk just for Andy Diggle. I think it depends entirely on how Andy's introduced back into the plot line, and what exactly Damien's proposal to Oliver is. 

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looptab

looptab

"Hope. Inspiration. Don't lose sight of that. Not even for John."

Thank you :)

 

It could be that this is where Oliver and Diggle have their difference of opinion, there was that scene where Oliver is all upset in one of the promos.

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wonderwall

wonderwall

I like that Felicity is not wanting Oliver to lose sight of something he really wants to do and is passionate about. He really wants to be Mayor and it's the first time in a long time he made a positive choice for himself. So all that is great. I just don't ever believe Felicity would not want to help Diggle. Ever. It's bullshit.

 

In the previews she DID say that they have to help Digg (or something like that)... So it's not like she's not going to help. She is. She just doesn't want Oliver to lose himself in the mission yet again. 

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

NOPE. Felicity would NEVER forsake John. And I don't think she would tell Oliver to not let John be more important than becoming mayor. NOPE NOPE NOPE. John is Oliver's best friend in the world. Despite their problems.

 

 

I'm going with her being under Darkh's spell and trying to keep Oliver FROM helping John. 

Edited by catrox14
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Guest

Guest

(edited)

I think we need to see context first, because I do believe that she'd tell Oliver not to go undercover for Darhk just for Andy Diggle. I think it depends entirely on how Andy's introduced back into the plot line, and what exactly Damien's proposal to Oliver is. 

 

I hope you're right. I just don't have much faith in these writers all the time and I can totally see them doing this just so Diggle confides in Laurel and has her support. I'm absolutely sick of them forcing her to be relevant in ways that affects 3 years' worth of characterization. Felicity would always want to help Diggle. I just hope she thinks of another way.

In the previews she DID say that they have to help Digg (or something like that)... So it's not like she's not going to help. She is. She just doesn't want Oliver to lose himself in the mission yet again. 

 

Yeah, I hope she finds another way as usual. But that line just doesn't sit right with me.

Edited by Guest
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looptab

looptab

(edited)

I think it's good advice, not just because they don't know what's the deal with Andy yet, but also because once again Oliver is ready to throw his life to hell for the mission, without a lot of thought behind it, it seems.

Edited by looptab
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

I hope you're right. I just don't have much faith in these writers all the time and I can totally see them doing this just so Diggle confides in Laurel and has her support. I'm absolutely sick of them forcing her to be relevant. Felicity would always want to help Diggle. I just hope she thinks of another way.

 

Well, I mean, they've set that up already. Laurel having irrational belief that her chained-up sister just needs to look at some family photos to get right again. Diggle seeing his zombie brother walking around murdering people. There's no way they're not going to bond over that. No way. She will be pro Diggle doing whatever to get Andy back, because that's what she did. And we know that Oliver and Diggle are going to have a parting of the ways when it comes to dealing with Darhk - SA said so. This is probably where it starts. 

 

It's typical Oliver to make an emotional decision and go in blind, just to help his friend. It's a nice idea, but it's also okay for Felicity to remind him to keep focus - they're playing a long game here, too. 

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tarotx

tarotx

(edited)

Oliver is always ready and willing to sacrafice himself. (That's why he needs Sumner vacations away from Starling). He just did it a couple of weeks ago when he Volunteered to go to the spirit realm for Sara's soul. Our boy is selfish in his will to sacrafice his own wants and needs.

Edited by tarotx
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catrox14

catrox14

I think it's good advice, not just because they don't know what's the deal with Andy yet, but also because once again Oliver is ready to throw his life to hell for the mission, without a lot of thought behind it, it seems.

 

If it were about anyone other than John, I would agree. But this is John Fucking Diggle, who has supported Oliver, well until they needed him to be against Ra's al Oliver, which that doesn't count IMO, because that was BizArrow.

 

But these guys are brothers and I just don't believe Felicity would try and stop him.

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tarotx

tarotx

(edited)

Does Oliver "remember" how to deal with Darhk's magic yet? If not than it's not time for Oliver to play games with Darhk. He'll be at a huge risk having to face DD as both the supporting Oliver Queen and the antagonist the Green Arrow.

Edited by tarotx
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

But these guys are brothers and I just don't believe Felicity would try and stop him.

 

I absolutely do, if Oliver was getting ready to do something stupid without having all the facts, which it seems like is happening. I really think we need full context and a little more information about what's going on.

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Guest

Guest

Yeah, I'll wait for some more context but right now, hmm. First impression? Not impressed. Let's hope it's better in the episode! 

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catrox14

catrox14

If Diggle was Laurel in this scenario would you change your opinion on if Felicity is wrong in this sneak peek?

 

If the character of Laurel Lance, had been portrayed as the same loyal, smart, devoted, trustworthy, kind. loving, self-less, best friend to Oliver Queen that John Diggle has been, yes I would be upset with Felicity.  But that isn't the case.

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lemotomato

lemotomato

If it were about anyone other than John, I would agree. But this is John Fucking Diggle, who has supported Oliver, well until they needed him to be against Ra's al Oliver, which that doesn't count IMO, because that was BizArrow.

But these guys are brothers and I just don't believe Felicity would try and stop him.

Judging from just the clip, she's not saying that he shouldn't help Digg. She saying that he shouldn't throw his life away, to dive into the darkness that would be required of him in order to get close to DD while undercover. Remember what he told her in 401, that he was afraid he couldn't be a hero without being that dark guy he didn't want to be anymore? Felicity is reminding him to not give that up, not even for John. She's looking out for his mental health, and I'm glad she's doing that. They can figure out another plan that doesn't require Oliver to sacrifice himself.
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Yeah, I mean, she's not telling Oliver not to help John. She's telling him not to do some dumb shit to help John. Oliver is ruled by his emotions and his willingness to throw everything away to help someone. She's reminding him to look out for himself. There is absolutely nothing wrong or disloyal about that. 

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

(edited)

Meh I don't think Felicity is going to just say NO to helping Digg. She's just saying no to this plan.

 

They will find another way.

Yeah, I have no problem with that.

 

Also, you all missed the most important spoiler today, that SA's twitter makes it sound like he is getting the goatee (a Van Dyke, I think it's properly called?).  On LoT, in the future, hopefully on his deathbed.  I won't see it, of course, because I won't be watching LoT.

Edited by AyChihuahua
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wonderwall

wonderwall

Yeah, I have no problem with that.

 

Also, you all missed the most important spoiler today, that SA's twitter makes it sound like he is getting the goatee (a Van Dyke, I think it's properly called?)  On LoT, in the future, hopefully on his deathbed.  I won't see it, of course, because I won't be watching LoT.

 

As long as we don't see it on Arrow I'm good. 

And glad you don't have a problem with it. It actually makes Oliver look good because he's actually taking other peoples' opinions to heart and thinking about his actions. Yay Oliver! GROWTH. 

 

Plus, I feel like Diggle didn't ask Oliver to sacrifice himself, Oliver was willingly going to do it. Would like to see a conversation with Oliver/Diggle about this and have Diggle tell Oliver that it would've been a stupid move to go undercover like that. 

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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Judging from just the clip, she's not saying that he shouldn't help Digg. She saying that he shouldn't throw his life away, to dive into the darkness that would be required of him in order to get close to DD while undercover. Remember what he told her in 401, that he was afraid he couldn't be a hero without being that dark guy he didn't want to be anymore? Felicity is reminding him to not give that up, not even for John. She's looking out for his mental health, and I'm glad she's doing that. They can figure out another plan that doesn't require Oliver to sacrifice himself.

Thank You!  This has been one of my biggest issues with Oliver since the beginning and S3 was the worst offender of his stupidity. The fact that Felicity is saying don't lose yourself and sacrifice everything that you are/were/hope to be and hope to accomplish and the good you want to do for the City by throwing yourself into the Mission and giving everything up because you believe it's the ONLY way and YOU'RE the ONLY one that can accomplish it, is IMO a GOOD thing.  Oliver is and has always been (since S1) massively mission oriented to the point that he will sacrifice everything to accomplish his goal.  It's not a healthy mentality and it certainly won't help him survive in the long run.  

 

Oliver/Felicity's lessons have always been about finding another way, I'm sure that's exactly what this entails, finding another way to beat Darhk one that doesn't involve Oliver regressing to S1-3 dumbass status

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

(edited)

"Hope. Inspiration. Don't lose sight of that. Not even for John."

 

 

 

 

NOPE. Felicity would NEVER forsake John. And I don't think she would tell Oliver to not let John be more important than becoming mayor. NOPE NOPE NOPE. John is Oliver's best friend in the world. Despite their problems.

 

 

I'm going with her being under Darkh's spell and trying to keep Oliver FROM helping John. 

 

 

 

Meh I don't think Felicity is going to just say NO to helping Digg. She's just saying no to this plan.

 

They will find another way.

Exactly!  Oliver's plan to go undercover is a bad long term plan.  He needs to find another way just like he should have tried to find another way to take down Ra's last year.  Diggle may or may not understand immediately but Oliver can't tackle every problem that comes his way by jumping personally on the grenade. 

Yeah, the stupid facial hair is total fan service, but if it had to happen, I'm glad it's happening on LoT because I'm not watching anyway and can ignore it.

And it is only making the cameo rather than a long term look. 

Edited by BkWurm1
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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

Felicity apparently has also been watching the show (which we know Oliver doesn't do) so she knows that the Big Bad only lasts one season while being mayor lasts two years or longer.  Way to look at the big picture, girl.

 

True, true. The main reason I agree with Felicity that taking down an evil organization from the inside [only this is time as Oliver Queen] is not the best idea is because I watched S3.

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

From the new IGN interview with Stephen:

 

Then there's a fourth element that we're going to introduce in a couple of episodes that, again, is a side of Oliver that the audience has never had an opportunity to see and he didn't know was there.

 

 

That's totally the surprise kid, isn't it.

 

The way he's talking about it kinda makes it sound like an on-going arc, and UGH. I hate fictional children.

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lemotomato

lemotomato

From the new IGN interview with Stephen:

That's totally the surprise kid, isn't it.

The way he's talking about it kinda makes it sound like an on-going arc, and UGH. I hate fictional children.

That makes sense. I was going to ask what everyone thought that 4th element would be because I forgot about the surprise kid.
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

From the new IGN interview with Stephen:

 

 

That's totally the surprise kid, isn't it.

 

The way he's talking about it kinda makes it sound like an on-going arc, and UGH. I hate fictional children.

 

He can be all fatherly until the paternity test comes back negative, okay?! Because seriously, wtf would they even do with a kid on this show? 

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EmeraldArcher

EmeraldArcher

Thank You!  This has been one of my biggest issues with Oliver since the beginning and S3 was the worst offender of his stupidity. The fact that Felicity is saying don't lose yourself and sacrifice everything that you are/were/hope to be and hope to accomplish and the good you want to do for the City by throwing yourself into the Mission and giving everything up because you believe it's the ONLY way and YOU'RE the ONLY one that can accomplish it, is IMO a GOOD thing.  Oliver is and has always been (since S1) massively mission oriented to the point that he will sacrifice everything to accomplish his goal.  It's not a healthy mentality and it certainly won't help him survive in the long run.  

 

Oliver/Felicity's lessons have always been about finding another way, I'm sure that's exactly what this entails, finding another way to beat Darhk one that doesn't involve Oliver regressing to S1-3 dumbass status

I agree, and I LOVED these clips--they're totally another Find Another Way moment! But this time, Oliver looks up at her in love and confirmation that she's wise and saving him again from doing something stupid.

 

If you stitch together all of the Smoak Pearls of Wisdom--Find Another Way; Don't fight to die, fight to live; etc.--her advice here is consistent and as much about saving Oliver from himself as it's always been. It has not one whiff of unwillingness to help John.

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SmallScreenDiva

SmallScreenDiva

(edited)

If it were about anyone other than John, I would agree. But this is John Fucking Diggle, who has supported Oliver, well until they needed him to be against Ra's al Oliver, which that doesn't count IMO, because that was BizArrow.

 

But these guys are brothers and I just don't believe Felicity would try and stop him.

 

I don't think it'll be as simple as Felicity saying no. This will be another example of Oliver and Felicity AND Digg finding another way to defeat Darhk, Might not happen right away since we're only in ep 7, but yeah, I don't have any worries. 

 

ETA: Or what folks above said, LOL!

Edited by SmallScreenDiva
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Carrie Ann

Carrie Ann

Okay, that comic preview is so, so stupid. So DD/HIVE's motivation for killing Starling is...to have a base of operations? That is the least efficient thing I've ever heard. Just buy a giant plot of land like 100 miles to the east and you can operate however you want. Why would you need a dead city to do this? All the resources would apparently be gone (since they're literally burning money), and they're trying to drive all the people out. What's left? What do you need? If you need a port, there are more deserted places on coasts! There are towns that died natural deaths! WTF?

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Chaser

Chaser

Okay, that comic preview is so, so stupid. So DD/HIVE's motivation for killing Starling is...to have a base of operations? That is the least efficient thing I've ever heard. Just buy a giant plot of land like 100 miles to the east and you can operate however you want. Why would you need a dead city to do this? All the resources would apparently be gone (since they're literally burning money), and they're trying to drive all the people out. What's left? What do you need? If you need a port, there are more deserted places on coasts! There are towns that died natural deaths! WTF?

But Star City is built on the Hellmouth and the Mayor needs that power to ascend

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SmallScreenDiva

SmallScreenDiva

Okay, that comic preview is so, so stupid. So DD/HIVE's motivation for killing Starling is...to have a base of operations? That is the least efficient thing I've ever heard. Just buy a giant plot of land like 100 miles to the east and you can operate however you want. Why would you need a dead city to do this? All the resources would apparently be gone (since they're literally burning money), and they're trying to drive all the people out. What's left? What do you need? If you need a port, there are more deserted places on coasts! There are towns that died natural deaths! WTF?

 

Hopefully, that's just Oliver's speculation and not the real reason.

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Carrie Ann

Carrie Ann

(edited)
Hopefully, that's just Oliver's speculation and not the real reason.

 

I hope so too. It just seems like one of those moments where the show asks the question on everyone's mind and then gives an answer and moves on and we all have to pretend that answer made sense. Like, why TF Malcolm...just, why Malcolm. For example.

Edited by Carrie Ann
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Guest

Guest

(edited)

Yeah, I hope they're just speculating and that isn't the actual reason HIVE wants to kill Star City. Maybe that box thing that DD has is a map and SC is where it's based?! I have no clue. 

Edited by Guest
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bijoux

bijoux

I completely understand Felicity's point of view and don't think it's a slight against her and/or Oliver's friendship with Dig. She's just telling Oliver not to throw himself on the pyre once more, which would be detrimental not only to his all around well being, but his attempt to help the city in the light of day. Plus, I feel it's a good bet that Dig doesn't know about this "plan" at this point and wouldn't push Oliver in that direction either. Helping John is still very much on the table.

Also, I fully believe Felicity would use 'not even for me' instead of 'not even for John' if that was the way the cookie crumbled.

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Guest

Guest

Also, I fully believe Felicity would use 'not even for me' instead of 'not even for John' if that was the way the cookie crumbled.

 

I would much rather she said "Not even for me" instead of "Not even for John" but I guess I'm alone in this. Haha. But she has said that before, back in s2 when she didn't want Oliver to kill the Count for her. So I can totally believe she'd say that about herself. 

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kismet

kismet

(edited)

Yeah, I hope they're just speculating and that isn't the actual reason HIVE wants to kill Star City. Maybe that box thing that DD has is a map and SC is where it's based?! I have no clue. 

It does look like a map. It reminded me of when they figured out the book was really a map of the city's subway system. I wonder if there is something below the city and that is what the box or map will lead them to. Perhaps that is why DD really needs SC and not just a random city. I don't think it's hellmouth but it might be something.

Edited by kismet
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kismet

kismet

So... who's going undercover if Oliver isn't? Diggle?

I've called Dig going undercover for weeks now. I think he will do it. I didn't see it being a way that causes tension between Dig & OQ or them choosing different approaches to handling DD, but I wonder if this will be it. Also, I don't mind Dig going undercover, but he better have cleared it with Lyla first.

 

As for the Olicity clip ~ I agree with most of you that FS is not saying NO to helping Dig. But rather she is saying that they need to find another way. OQ going undercover and simultaneously running for mayor is just a bad idea. But I also agree that we need more context. The wording is wonky, but let's be honest has the wording of a lot of these clips sounded good when you remove them from the show's context.

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bijoux

bijoux

Going by the interview with David Ramsey from Spoilers only, any worries about Felicity shutting Dig out are greatly exaggerated. Also of note? No mention of Laurel when it comes to this family.

 

 

“What you’re going to learn about Diggle is just how much he is committed, how much this team has become his family,” Ramsey continues. “That idea is going to be repeated through each character — through Oliver, through Felicity, through Diggle — that this is the family.”

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Balaclava

Balaclava

“What you’re going to learn about Diggle is just how much he is committed, how much this team has become his family,” Ramsey continues. “That idea is going to be repeated through each character — through Oliver, through Felicity, through Diggle — that this is the family.”

 

"that this is the family" 4th season of true/earned/showed friendship, this is why OTA keeps on being a fan favorite and such an important characteristic of Arrow 

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