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Spoiler Discussion Thread

Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

The name that I've been surprised to see bandied about is Thea.  Personally, given her recent almost death and dip in the LP, I'd say she's the one that is off the list but I've been reading comments that her bloodlust, since it seems to be unresolvable I(and she's twice been open to people killing her) she would be the one to make some huge sacrifice. 

 

Of course Sara is a problem to the theory that the only way away from the blood lust is dying but that's explained away that Sara will have a more generic blood lust since she got her whole soul back but Thea was still missing a piece of hers. 

 

A long shot still in my book but interesting. 

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

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Starfish35

Starfish35

TVLine also had Thea second highest behind Quentin in their Most Likely to Die ratings (not the fan poll, the staff-generated one). Yeah, I have a hard time seeing that as likely, after what happened last season, but who knows I guess. The bloodlust thing is a problem, but killing her would not only be repetitive, it'd be leaving Oliver without any family at all. I don't think they'd do that?

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jay741982

jay741982

TVLine also had Thea second highest behind Quentin in their Most Likely to Die ratings (not the fan poll, the staff-generated one). Yeah, I have a hard time seeing that as likely, after what happened last season, but who knows I guess. The bloodlust thing is a problem, but killing her would not only be repetitive, it'd be leaving Oliver without any family at all. I don't think they'd do that?

I don't think they would either UNLESS they actually have Oliver and Felicity Married and Felicity is pregnant at the end of the season which I don't really see happening

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wingster55

wingster55

If they really wanted to angst up Oliver, Thea and Felicity are clearly the best bets. I don't think Thea's necessarily safe though because of repetitiveness...she's safe because her permanent death would wreck Oliver more than what we saw. 

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Sunshine

Sunshine

(edited)

My first thought when Oliver said he was going to kill him (at the graveside) was MM not DD.

 

I never considered Thea a possibility until after reading WM's interview which has some Malcolm information.  He will make some good decisions regarding Thea but ultimately he is a SuperVillain and will be going to a very dark place by the end of the season.  The main motivation in this show seems to be the loss of a loved one.  Perhaps Malcolm exploits Thea's bloodlust for fun or personal gain but she loses her life in the process. Or DD targets her to get at MM for a blood debt.

 

My money is still on QL but we'll see.

 

Regarding LL having no story outside Sara.  Felicity had no story in S1-S2 (and one could argue S3).  She was support.  Maybe it's KC's turn to be support and she'll be used mainly as BC.  4.05 could have been the real start of the GA/BC fighting team.  That might be her one big development per MG.  In which case Diggle might be in trouble.  (I would like to believe LL's in the grave but I am less likely to be disappointed if I keep expectations low).  

Edited by Sunshine
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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Apparently Rhimes also killed McDreamy because Patrick D. was a "diva" on set or so I've heard/read.

I think it depends on who you listen too. One side says Dempsey was the Diva, the other side says Shonda is a power mad control freak who killed Derek because Dempsey dared to stand up to her
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KenyaJ

KenyaJ

I think it depends on who you listen too. One side says Dempsey was the Diva, the other side says Shonda is a power mad control freak who killed Derek because Dempsey dared to stand up to her

 

Yeah, I've heard both versions too. Either way, I think Dempsey was written off the show for BTS reasons and not because Meredith and Derek had reached the end of their story potential. I never shipped them, but the only way they had no story left is if the writers are complete hacks.

 

As for Thea, I still consider her and Felicity the only "safe" characters on the show. So much was made about how, going into the Green Arrow era, Oliver is a new, lighter, happier man. Losing Felicity or Thea would completely destroy that, at least for a season, while he coped with the loss of one of the two most important people in his life.* I just don't see the writers taking him back to that kind of dark place and having to reset his character yet again.

 

*Yes, I think losing Diggle would devastate him, but losing Felicity or Thea would destroy him.

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Starfish35

Starfish35

Yeah I think it's Quentin. I want it to be Laurel, really really badly. Not only would it solve this show's problem, but it would spare me from having to watch her crossover on the other shows (I'm dreading that). But killing Laurel would be a huge admission of defeat, regarding a character they've struggled with for 3+ years. I just can't see them doing that. I hope I'm surprised.

And that leaves Quentin as the 2nd most disposable member of the cast. So yeah.

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statsgirl

statsgirl

I can't see them killing off Thea after the almost death last season. I think that makes her pretty safe.

 

I have a hard time believing that this show would kill off Oliver's sole remaining relative.  And to what purpose?  Robert's death spurred him to take down the bad guys from The List, Moira's death spurred him to take down Slade, Tommy's death made him want to be a hero. He's already going after DD and other than taking MM out of the game permanently, I can't see what good Thea's death would do.

Regarding LL having no story outside Sara.  Felicity had no story in S1-S2 (and one could argue S3).  She was support.  Maybe it's KC's turn to be support and she'll be used mainly as BC.  4.05 could have been the real start of the GA/BC fighting team.  That might be her one big development per MG.  In which case Diggle might be in trouble.  (I would like to believe LL's in the grave but I am less likely to be disappointed if I keep expectations low).  

Felicity still had a role to play which was tech support for the team and Oliver's personal support at QC.  It's true that both Diggle and Laurel are fighters but Diggle is also the Yoda of the team. Unless they want to make Oliver into that role (which I wouldn't advise), who would replace Diggle's wisdom?  Certainly not Laurel.

 

Yeah, I've heard both versions too. Either way, I think Dempsey was written off the show for BTS reasons and not because Meredith and Derek had reached the end of their story potential. I never shipped them, but the only way they had no story left is if the writers are complete hacks.

I'm still watching but I have to say, this season it appears that the writers are complete hacks.  They can't even get the feelz right now, not to mention the medicine.

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BunsenBurner

BunsenBurner

I think it is going to be Laurel dying this season. I also believe that it will be because of Malcolm Merlyn.

 

Not counting flashbacks nor Sara's many deaths the seasons have gone like this.

 

S1 MM killed Tommy.

 

S2 MM lost his former lover, Moira, a waste of a character IMO, but gained a daughter. He urged Thea to go with him to learn how to manage her anger.

 

S3 MM manipulated Thea and Oliver, Thea to kill Sara and Oliver to give him RAG title.
Both Thea and Oliver were almost killed by RAG and came back.
By having Roy killed in prison by Diggle and Felicity they killed the Arrow.

 

In S4 MM needs payback once the Lazarus Pit is destroyed by Nyssa. Sara cannot be killed because she has been resurrected to be on LOT. He’s angry with Nyssa, who loves Sara, for destroying the pit and he has only two choices either it is daddyLance or it’s Laurel.  Who would bring the greatest pain to the group? It wouldn’t be daddyLance because he would really only affect Laurel.  If he kills Laurel he gets his replacement death and it would effect Sara, Nyssa, and Thea and to a lesser extent Oliver, Felicity and Diggle.  The question is will it be death by Thea or by him? In the end the show always goes back to MM and it’s really not about Arrow.

 

I can also see this as a fight between MM and DD and LL gets in the way.I know ridiculous but it's out there enough that it could happen.

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

I think there's a huge amount of theorizing, and Tumblr metas, and how storytelling works, etc., that Laurel should be the one in the grave.  But really, how many times have these writers surprised us with anything other than awful writing?  Every time someone has died it's been the most obvious someone, with the POSSIBLE exception of Tommy ONLY IF you hadn't accepted that O/L were dead.  Once anyone realized O/L were dead, Tommy was without a point, and so had to die.  Everyone knew they were going to kill Sara, the only question was when.  The only reason she's back is the spinoff (and that the showrunners had no clue how popular she was.)  Re Moira, Oliver had to lose SOMEONE to Slade, and Moira was the most expendable.  

 

Quentin is expendable, he's the older father figure, he's important enough for the audience to care without being so devastated they'd stop watching, he's not a BECUZ COMICZ character, and his story has pretty much run its course.  

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kismet

kismet

Apparently Rhimes also killed McDreamy because Patrick D. was a "diva" on set or so I've heard/read.

There seemed to be a lot of backstage shenanigans & drama. There were already contract issues the year before that were prettu heated. Plus I think PD wanted out. And then there was the rumored affair witha crew member. Which also became more dramatic becuase Ellen Pompeo is supposedly good friends with PDs (ex) wife.

So I wouldn't use it as an example of a typical death of long standing character. From what it seems overall Arrow seems to be that drama light and definitely not as intense drama as Greys. Honestly I think whoever dies will be whoever TPTB have permission to kill whom they think they are done with their story.

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Starfish35

Starfish35

(edited)

Every time someone has died it's been the most obvious someone, with the POSSIBLE exception of Tommy ONLY IF you hadn't accepted that O/L were dead. Once anyone realized O/L were dead, Tommy was without a point, and so had to die. Everyone knew they were going to kill Sara, the only question was when. The only reason she's back is the spinoff (and that the showrunners had no clue how popular she was.) Re Moira, Oliver had to lose SOMEONE to Slade, and Moira was the most expendable.

That's a good point. Tommy surprised me, but I didn't think the writers would give up on Lauriver. (I actually didn't totally believe it until season three.). And also I was sure the writers were going for a Clark/Lex, Peter/Harry thing with them. The timing of Sara's death shocked me, but once she gave Laurel the jacket, it became a matter of when, not if.

Edited by Starfish35
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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

I don't think that Lance will die because Oliver wants/needs him as a father figure. 

In every story with a father/son relationship, one of them dies.  ALWAYS.  Obviously Oliver can't die, so it's gonna be Quentin.

 

For the record, while I am 99.99% sure it's Quentin, I would be thrilled to be wrong if it were Laurel instead.  I just really, really don't think they'll do it.  They should, but I do not believe they will.  If they do, it will be the tastiest crow I'll ever eat.

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KenyaJ

KenyaJ

I think it's entirely possible that Laurel won't be on the show next year. But if so, I think it's because the writers will write her out, not kill her. Laurel really doesn't have a useful place on the show, but she's a mask and she can always be brought back for guest appearances and special episodes where the only way to kill the villain is which a patented Black Canary hair whip.

 

It makes all the sense in the world to kill Laurel, but no sense to kill Black Canary. And as much as I like to dream, I can't imagine they'd kill this version of BC just to bring on another one. I'd love to be proven wrong. I just don't think it'll happen.

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kismet

kismet

(edited)

I would say Flash's AUs & LoT time travel allow for LL to be killed because the BC can be brought on later on another one of the shows without much damage to Arrow.

That being said. I honestly don't think we have anymore information that points more to one death candidate over another. I still think its a Lance. LL is the logical choice and QL is the obvious choice.

I still feel FS & TQ are safe because of the role they play in OQs life. Dig is a needed POC for the show (in addition to being kickass character). MM is gonna be kept around to be series long villain. Everyone else is not a major character, doesn't mean it won't be them- but TPTB seem to be pushing that it's a major character.

Edited by kismet
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calliope1975

calliope1975

Would Oliver shed a tear for Quentin?

 

I think Oliver would shed a tear for Quentin. Mostly because of the ridiculously quick wrap-up of any and all issues they had with each other. While I think most of what Quentin has done is fairly unforgivable, apparently Oliver does not. 

 

If TPTB know who's in the grave, and that's a big if, I think SA probably knows as well.

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Princess Vanellope

Princess Vanellope

I think it's most likely Quentin. However, if he dies, what exactly is keeping Laurel in SC? Her dad is dead, her sister is time traveling, and her mom is a massive POS (bitter forever that they didn't use Alex Kingston more effectively). I can absolutely see her leaving if QL is indeed dead. BC in comics lived in several different places, so it would fit canon. Plus, as she's leaving, she can throw out a line about quitting her day job and becoming a florist, another nod to comics as she makes her grand exit.

Works for me.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

In S4 MM needs payback once the Lazarus Pit is destroyed by Nyssa. Sara cannot be killed because she has been resurrected to be on LOT. He’s angry with Nyssa, who loves Sara, for destroying the pit and he has only two choices either it is daddyLance or it’s Laurel.  Who would bring the greatest pain to the group? It wouldn’t be daddyLance because he would really only affect Laurel.  If he kills Laurel he gets his replacement death and it would effect Sara, Nyssa, and Thea and to a lesser extent Oliver, Felicity and Diggle.  The question is will it be death by Thea or by him? In the end the show always goes back to MM and it’s really not about Arrow.

 

If MM wanted to hurt Laurel, it would hurt her more to kill her father though. 

 

 

 

Would Oliver shed a tear for Quentin?

 

It's possible that SA didn't know who the grave was for and shed a tear just in case for effect, but I tend to think he knew the short list.

Quentin is already on his redemption tour.  Key to the lair, help from Diggle, loving daughters around him, working to take down DD.  Toss in a "I believe in you and am proud of what you've done" and Oliver would be shedding deep manly tears.  Close it with, "Look after my babies."  Now Oliver is stuck with the BC forever. 

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kismet

kismet

Would Oliver shed a tear for Quentin?

It's possible that SA didn't know who the grave was for and shed a tear just in case for effect, but I tend to think he knew the short list.

Yes. I think he would. He seemed to love and care for QL. He always craved his respect and support. Even during QLs vendetta in s3, OQ seemed to think he deserved some of the treatment he rcvd from QL. Just because others maybe mad at QL for valid reasons, I never got the impression that OQ was extremely mad at QL. He only got mad at him after he worked with DD.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Assuming that Oliver & Felicity are still together at the end of S4, even if they have Laurel killed or leave SC, you can bet the EPs are going to introduce a new female character next season who will be a kickass fighter in a mask & costume (probably with a comics name) who will spark with Oliver.

Edited by tv echo
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kismet

kismet

Assuming that Oliver & Felicity are still together at the end of S4, even if they have Laurel killed or leave SC, you can bet the EPs are going to introduce a new female character next season who will be a kickass fighter in a mask & costume (probably with a comics name) who will spark with Oliver.

Well that's a depressing thought :(. I really hope that they keep O&F triangle angst free. I don't mind realistic (dare I say organic) drama & angst. But I'm so over them trying to do triangles. They really do stink at that and I'm not sure any casting is going to fix the fact that the writers can't write interesting love triangles.

I have no idea how they will continue to write O&F, I'm naive to think that they won't avoid drama & angst. But I wish they were brave enough to try. Arrow has so many more stories to tell besides cliche soap opera couple at odds for melodramatic reasons. Esp when its not their strong suit and acts against the actors' & pairing's natural chemistry.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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Apparently he did, so it could be Joe (although he would be fairly young). In the comics Slade's ex-wife was a part of HIVE, so I guess GA could fight her? There's also Rose Wilson if they wanted to go there but, my guess would be Joe since he was mentioned in S1/2.

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tv echo

tv echo

The audio was hard to make out over in the social media thread, but did Stephen Amell spoil that another Wilson was coming onto the show? Slade's son?

 

After talking about Slade Wilson/Deathstroke, SA said that "if you're looking for iconic fights, there might be another fight coming up with another Wilson".

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FurryFury

FurryFury

I've always expected for Slade's son to be on the show (and probably become a love interest for Thea), so Alex being him would be really intriguing. 

 

That said, I'm still really sad they've botched Slade's arc so much that Manu Bennet was pissed. I think otherwise he could still be a recurring/regular character. He still probably has more potential than Malcolm Merlyn.

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bijoux

bijoux

That said, I'm still really sad they've botched Slade's arc so much that Manu Bennet was pissed. I think otherwise he could still be a recurring/regular character. He still probably has more potential than Malcolm Merlyn.

 

What was he pissed about? And how much really since he did a guest spot last season?

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FurryFury

FurryFury

I think there were a few interview quotes that did imply he didn't like how they've handled Slade. He obviously wasn't that angry otherwise he wouldn't do that episode last year, but it was still noticeable enough, IMHO. And now he's a regular on an MTV show, of all things, so it's a moot point anyway.

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Guest

Guest

To be fair, Slade was used poorly in his s3 episode so I can't blame him. But I'd love if he came back eventually and tried to fulfil his promises/threats. 

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Guest
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