Spoiler Discussion Thread

[bijoux]

I really hope that this woman's kid doesn't turn out to be Oliver's. Yes, I'm still in that place. I don't mind the idea of Oliver having a hypothetičal kid out there but once you get it on the show, what will you do with it? Even if it's not his, you could spin storylines from it. DD thinks it's his so he threatens it. It's not like Oliver still won't feel responsible. It can bring up Felicity's dad issue, raise the question of Oliver and Felicity having kids, cast a shadow over the campaign, maybe even bleed into Felicity's job and Palmer Tech. The writers do love playing with the stocks. What I'm saying is, they can do all the stories they would with a presumed kid as with one that really is Oliver's. And then you don't have to worry about finding a way in which to discard him once you're done with those story lines.

[apinknightmare]

Before the kid was for sure back in the picture, I had hoped after last year's crossover with The Flash that we'd find out that the kid the mom spoke to on the phone in the coffee shop wasn't Oliver's. I never thought about it happening after Oliver found out about him and thinking he had a son. I like that thought, and I know it would be for  !plot! but I would have to call serious shenanigans if getting a paternity test wasn't the first thing these people did. Does it take a while to get one back? Could the waiting be enough to fuel a few weeks worth of drama? Also, if he wound up not being Oliver's, I'd like it if the mother wasn't aware of that fact.

Edited November 3, 2015 by apinknightmare

[calliope1975]

I think you can still get the character beats and growth without the kid being related to Oliver. It would still bring up what Oliver and Felicity want for the future, and Felicity could still deal with her daddy issues. We just wouldn't have to deal with either an on or off-camera kid. Win win win to quote Michael Scott.

[Guest]

My only hope is that Oliver and Felicity find out about his kid at the same time. Or one of them finds out and tells the other immediately. No secret keeping, no confiding in someone else first. Just no. Not here for it.

[bijoux]

I watched the producer's preview to see what Mericle's perspecitve was. Laurel grappling with her decision. Ahahaha. No.

[tarotx]

I watched the producer's preview to see what Mericle's perspective was. Laurel grappling with her decision. Ahahaha. No.

For a split second when Laurel was going to shoot Sara and Oliver says lets get Sara's soul back. Or something like that.

Edited November 3, 2015 by tarotx

[jay741982]

Someone on Twitter brought up a possible scenario for Olicity that they didn't want and I don't think anyone wants: Felicity being kidnapped and getting seriously Hurt. Then her and Oliver find out in the hospital that she was Pregant and lost the baby :(

[kismet]

I did my internship in 3 different hospitals and you would be surprised at how often it happens.

Im usually the one who has to stop the fun. Sadly, I know how often it happens. Your on a heart monitor & being videotaped for seizure monitoring. We're gonna notice something is up.

The worst one ever was when the dying patient's daughter & her boyfriend were doing it in the bathroom, while the patient's granddaughter waited on the couch playing on her ipad at like 11p on a school night.Thats just disrespectful & rude on all levels.

[Ann Mack]

For a split second when Laurel was going to shoot Sara and Oliver says lets get Sara's soul back. Or something like that.

To me that wasn't grappling that was Laurel once again demonstrating her own "hypocrisy",  and lack of good story telling by the writers.  

Earlier in the episode she calls her father out for the same thing so NO they are trying to make this some sort of redemption and moment of regret for Laurel which she failed to demonstrate by her actions

. 

Even back in the hospital hallway scene when she "supposedly" calls Oliver out on his hypocrisy it falls flat. She says its because he doesn't see her as an "equal" if she had said friend maybe. But why does she think he has to tell her anything? Any who she again makes it all about her not Thea in the hospital or soul-less Sara but about what she is going through. Typical "That's So Laurel"

 This episode just seems like they were rushing to get to closure on the whole Laurel & Sara story arc.

Edited November 4, 2015 by Ann Mack

[MuuMuuChainsmoker]

I look forward to Oliver's wacky Mr. Mom hijinks.

[apinknightmare]

For a split second when Laurel was going to shoot Sara and Oliver says lets get Sara's soul back. Or something like that.

 

Yep. I wish she hadn't had that thought, haha. It's like, her sister's been running around murdering and beating people for a week, beat Thea's ass twice, and it isn't until Sara is kicking her ass that Laurel thinks, "Yikes, this was a bad idea, I HAVE TO KILL HER." LMAO

 

I wouldn't call that "grappling" so much as maybe "gra." It's a third of a grapple. 

Edited November 4, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Primal Slayer]

Is it weird that CW hasn't done the usual rounds of promotion for 4x05 apart from the episode stills? No sneak peaks, no comic preview. 

[apinknightmare]

Is it weird that CW hasn't done the usual rounds of promotion for 4x05 apart from the episode stills? No sneak peaks, no comic preview. 

 

I wonder if it has something to do with the leak? 

 

Although you'd think they would still want to promote the episode.

[Primal Slayer]

To me that wasn't grappling that was Laurel once again demonstrating her own "hypocrisy",  and lack of good story telling by the writers.  

Earlier in the episode she calls her father out for the same thing so NO they are trying to make this some sort of redemption and moment of regret for Laurel which she failed to demonstrate by her actions

. 

Even back in the hospital hallway scene when she "supposedly" calls Oliver out on his hypocrisy it falls flat. She says its because he doesn't see her as an "equal" if she had said friend maybe. But why does she think he has to tell her anything? Any who she again makes it all about her not Thea in the hospital or soul-less Sara but about what she is going through. Typical "That's So Laurel"

 This episode just seems like they were rushing to get to closure on the whole Laurel & Sara story arc.

Oliver had no problem coming to her when he needed her as Arrow/Hood which is probably the problem she had. And at least when she was mad at Quentin for almost putting Sara down, it was before she learned that Sara was basically running around as an empty vessel. Though it was stupid of them to have her give up so quickly instead of wanting to try to find a way to save her soul, but that wasn't surprising.

[kismet]

Is it weird that CW hasn't done the usual rounds of promotion for 4x05 apart from the episode stills? No sneak peaks, no comic preview. 

They released a rough copy of the episode "illegally", wink wink ~ how much more can we expect them to do?

[Primal Slayer]

I wonder if it has something to do with the leak? 

 

Although you'd think they would still want to promote the episode.

I'm a little bit convinced that maybe the leak was planned. 

[apinknightmare]

I'm a little bit convinced that maybe the leak was planned. 

 

Yeah, probably. The usual players who would rail against that kind of thing haven't bothered. 

Edited November 4, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Genki]

I don't get the point of intentionally leaking the episode....what would they get out of it?

[BkWurm1]

All I know is I hope they don't leak anymore.  4-5 hasn't even aired (nor have I watched it) but I feel no excitement or anticipation.  I also don't feel any real dread but the wait for 4-6 feels like it's been going on forever.  Tomorrow even the discussions afterward are going to be such a let down. 

[lemotomato]

I think the leak has more to do with Constantine than with Arrow. Some seem to think that if the episode does really well, Constantine could get revived somehow. That's assuming that the leak would create more buzz and get more people to watch, which... I'm not sure if it did.

I don't think they've done any less promotion for this episode than the others, aside from the lack of a comic preview. I think we'll get another sneak peek or two today. They've usually released clips on Wednesdays.

[Guest]

Yeah, Arrow Facebook page is non-stop talk about Constantine and people hoping if the episode gets good ratings, it'll open up a way to bring the show back. Can't blame fans for their wishful thinking. 

[Chaser]

The leak made Arrow Wednesday feel odd. I feel like I'm kicking rocks till next week.

Im seeing the Constantine fandom push this episode a lot. Not seeing much from Arrow, but it's probably because the people I follow have already seen the episode and are talking about 4x06.

[Guest]

Yeah, I haven't actually seen the episode yet but just reading all the spoilers about what happens made me not really care. It's been weird. 

[Starfish35]

Yeah same. I had about a day where I was pretty irritated, not by the leak, but by what I read about the episode. And now I'm like "eh, don't care." I usually stay up late to watch the episode when it comes available, but I won't be tonight. It just feels like an off week.

[Velocity23]

‘Arrow’ EP Teases Constantine’s Arrival, ‘The Flash’ Crossover and Resolution to Season-Premiere Death Shocker

http://www.thewrap.com/arrow-ep-teases-constantine-the-flash-crossover-and-season-premiere-death-shocker-resolution/

 

 

You just finished shooting this year’s big crossover with “The Flash” and “Legends.” How did it go, what can you tell us?
The crossover went amazing. It’s probably one of the biggest in terms of scope and ambition and sheer number of characters we’re putting on screen and interacting together. The last time we did this was obviously last year in 308 and obviously Barry in 208 in Season 2, and this is bigger than all of that. It’s really exciting. It’s very much in the “Arrow” universe, but it’s cool, we’re doing some fights in daylight and it has a different feel to it. It really does feel like an extended universe in a way that I don’t know that we’ve experienced yet. It’s going to be fun.

We’re all expecting the crossover to really set up “Legends” but will it also have repercussions for the rest of the season of “Arrow” and “Flash”?
Absolutely. Like with Constantine, part of the reason we did was it fit in with one of the storylines we wanted to do with our characters and that is the same here. Oliver will have a very emotional and surprising storyline with Felicity in 408 that will have huge repercussions the rest of the season. And on the “Flash” side, the same goes for Barry as well.
 

 

We haven’t gone back to that flash-forward in the season premiere since that episode. When will we pick that storyline back up again?
We will see a little bit, a hint of it in 409 and possibly 410. And then, towards the end of the season, it will all be revealed.

[AyChihuahua]

Hey Wendy, don't you mean a fake hint, when Felicity is kidnapped in 4.09?

[lemotomato]

We haven’t gone back to that flash-forward in the season premiere since that episode. When will we pick that storyline back up again?

We will see a little bit, a hint of it in 409 and possibly 410. And then, towards the end of the season, it will all be revealed.

WTF does this even mean?

Edited November 4, 2015 by lemotomato

[dtissagirl]

Felicity in danger and/or admiring her brand new engagement ring -- cut to headstone, and Oliver standing there again with Barry, or someone else from another show -- fade to Arrow title card -- fade to Christmas hiatus.

[apinknightmare]

WTF does this even mean?

Probably means something terrible will happen to Felicity in 4x09, and they'll flash to the grave again. Cue panic/gloating throughout winter hiatus.

[Guest]

This winter hiatus is gonna be so much fun! *looks into the camera like on The Office*

[dtissagirl]

AND THEN maybe, in case we've forgotten during the festivities, they'll open 410 with the headstone too, and cut back to present time to Felicity.

 

I hate flash-forwards so hard. Ugh.

[AyChihuahua]

Felicity in danger and/or admiring her brand new engagement ring -- cut to headstone, and Oliver standing there again with Barry, or someone else from another show -- fade to Arrow title card -- fade to Christmas hiatus.

Seriously, they are so transparently manipulative, even though anyone with any clue how tv shows work knows it's not Felicity.

[looptab]

Think how much happier the holidays would be, if only they hinted at Laurel being in the grave! Hope and joy to the world!

[AyChihuahua]

Think how much happier the holidays would be, if only they hinted at Laurel being in the grave! Hope and joy to the world!

I still totally don't think this will happen, because #1 on my list, by a LOT, is Quentin.  But I'm maybe not 100% sure?  I mean, I can't figure out where they're going with Laurel.  I can't figure out why only Thea got an LI, when an LI could have been really good for Laurel, if they had chemistry, and maybe he softened her or made her smile or challenged her or whatever.  I figured her 4b storyline would be dealing with Quentin's death, and I pretty much still think that, but is that it?  We've seen her deal with a family member's death twice already.  And storytelling-wise, they are kind of closing a lot of her stuff down and "fixing" her relationships, etc.  (In quotation marks bc they really aren't, but they do think they are.)  So I guess I'm 98% sure it's not her.

 

Also, the scene cuts, etc., as hints are transparent bullshit and irritate me.  BUT, there are structural show issues that are not meant to be hints, but are the reasons I am sure it's Quentin.  They can cut from happy O/F and engagement ring scenes to the gravestone as much as they want, and I'll call BS.  But finishing out storylines and closing down/fixing relationships, etc., are things they can't lie about, because it's the actual structure of the show.  They're doing fadeouts, etc., with Felicity, but they're simultaneously heating up her relationships and storylines, because she's going to need her storylines after the big death.  They're not doing fadeouts with Quentin, but they are closing down/fixing his relationships, because he won't need any storylines after the [his] big death.  His story is coming to an end, and it's almost time for him to go out with a big redemptive/torch-passing/quasi-fatherly moment.

Edited November 4, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[looptab]

Me too, just wishful thinking :)

[tv echo]

If Felicity isn't the one in the grave, then why would we be getting a hint of the flashforward storyline in 409 and maybe 410, which are the episodes with Donna Smoak?  I am really fed up with the EPs feeding us either actual clues or misleading clues.  If they actually do something as stupid as killing off Felicity, then I'm going to be more bummed than I was when I watched the end of S2 of BBC's Robin Hood series

when they killed off Marian!  Of course, then at the end of S3, they killed off Robin, and his ghost reunited with Marian's ghost!

So stupidity all around!

Edited November 4, 2015 by tv echo

[AyChihuahua]

If Felicity isn't the one in the grave, then why would we be getting a hint of the flashforward storyline in 409 and maybe 410, which are the episodes with Donna Smoak?  I am really fed up with the EPs feeding us either actual clues or misleading clues.  If they actually do something as stupid as killing off Felicity, then I'm going to be more bummed than I was when I watched the end of S2 of BBC's Robin Hood series

when they killed off Marian

!

Because they are manipulative assholes, and they are INTENTIONALLY screwing with people to keep buzz going.

 

I rarely make promises, but I promise you if it's a real death it's not Felicity. 

[Guest]

They're probably gonna have someone else standing with Oliver at the grave this time and it'll be Laurel. LMAO. TROLLS.

[AyChihuahua]

They're probably gonna have someone else standing with Oliver at the grave this time and it'll be Laurel. LMAO. TROLLS.

Maybe they'll take a clue from that terrible recent fic and have Laurel eye up Oliver while they're standing at the gravestone.  Of course, that'd make her look even worse when it turns out she's eyeing up Oliver at her father's grave.

[Guest]

Maybe they'll take a clue from that terrible recent fic and have Laurel eye up Oliver while they're standing at the gravestone.  Of course, that'd make her look even worse when it turns out she's eyeing up Oliver at her father's grave.

 

Haha, well, I wouldn't put it past KC to do that but nah. I don't see that happening. 

 

But surely someone else must be at the grave with him this time because how else can they hint at who it might be otherwise? I don't really get it. But man, if we're getting a hint in the same episodes as Felicity, presumably, getting hurt, they really want us to think it's Felicity.

 

Snore.

Edited November 4, 2015 by Guest

[apinknightmare]

If Felicity isn't the one in the grave, then why would we be getting a hint of the flashforward storyline in 409 and maybe 410, which are the episodes with Donna Smoak? I am really fed up with the EPs feeding us either actual clues or misleading clues. If they actually do something as stupid as killing off Felicity, then I'm going to be more bummed than I was when I watched the end of S2 of BBC's Robin Hood series

when they killed off Marian! Of course, then at the end of S3, they killed off Robin, and his ghost reunited with Marian's ghost!

So stupidity all around!

Because they want to "shock" people. If you get the audience thinking it's Felicity, they get to have their little "gotcha" moment when they reveal who it really is. If they've been insinuating Felicity's in the grave all season, it really wouldn't be all that surprising when she actually winds up being in the grave.

She is an anvil sized red herring.

[Starfish35]

Wow I can tell this hiatus is going to be SO MUCH FUN YOU ALL!

:(

[looptab]

I bet the one at the grave with Oliver will be Ray :)

[tv echo]

Regarding 409 speculation that Felicity will be injured and hospitalized - what if that episode ends with Felicity's "death" (not kidnapping)?  Then when the show returns in 410 (after the break), we find out that Oliver did that Vulcan neck pinch (that he did on Poppy Girl in the flashback) to fake Felicity's death.

 

Then if Felicity's father is a higher-up in HIVE, he gets angry at DD for causing Felicity's "death".  When she turns up alive again, her father kidnaps her to protect her.

Edited November 4, 2015 by tv echo

[tarotx]

I think Thea will be the one off the list mid season. She isn't getting killed and "died" last season so she"s the best option. It Keeps the LI open. And the Lance hints not directed at one character.

[AyChihuahua]

I bet the one at the grave with Oliver will be Ray :)

Now that was just mean.

 

How does the timing work, anyway?  If the death is in six months (four-ish from 4.9 airing), why would Felicity appearing to be dead make her seem to be the one in the grave?  If that's what they're going for, they'll have to make her either just kidnapped or injured.  Although obviously then the show isn't going to keep O/F separated or Felicity offscreen for four months, so I don't really get it.

I think Thea will be the one off the list mid season. She isn't getting killed and "died" last season so she"s the best option. It Keeps the LI open.

Agreed, I'm not worried about Thea at all.  Way too repetitive, even for these writers, plus she has LI AND new LP craziness.  And Willa's killing it this season.  Thea's quickly becoming one of my favorites.

Edited November 4, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[tv echo]

I have too much Arrow on the brain.  More speculation. DD strongly implied to Quentin that he was also a father - so who is his child?  We know from WM that the child isn't Felicity. The most likely scenario is that his kid is some new character who we haven't met yet (maybe one with a comics identity).

 

But here's some wild speculation.  What if DD is Malcolm's bio dad?  DD knows this, but Malcolm doesn't know and finds out.  However, DD doesn't know that Thea is Malcolm's bio kid and therefore his granddaughter, but he finds out.  Then Malcolm has conflicting loyalties, but ends up fighting DD to keep Thea out of DD's hands, and Malcolm dies.

 

Even wilder speculation. What if DD is Laurel's bio dad?  Dinah had a brief fling with DD and was pregnant when she met Quentin, who she married after a whirlwind courtship.  Malcolm joins TA in fighting DD, but he dies.  Nyssa dies somehow.  Oliver and TA defeat DD and destroy HIVE.  Laurel takes over as head of the LOA, thus giving her a piece of BC comics canon that hadn't been given to Sara.  (Okay, stop laughing.)

 

Wildest speculation.  S4 ends with a shocking reveal - Tommy is alive, and evil!  He was resurrected by DD a few years ago, but suffers from LP bloodlust and has magical powers.  After DD dies (presumably), Tommy takes over HIVE, thereby setting up S5 to be like S2, where the Big Bad is a former friend of Oliver.  It also gives Laurel an emotional stake in S5. Tommy can even adopt a new name (some comics villain).*

 

(* If CD isn't available, they can always go the cosmetic surgery route.)

Edited November 4, 2015 by tv echo

[looptab]

Now that was just mean.

 

 

 

You raise a fair point, though. It wouldn't make much sense to tease something horrible before the hiatus if the death happens months later. I don't know..

[calliope1975]

I'm positive Tommy is alive. MM didn't want to dump Thea in the Pit for a reason - he'd seen the mess he made when he did it to Tommy. I don't know if we'll ever see him, though. I think he's chilling with the real Ra's getting his head on straight. 

[tv echo]

Maybe the EPs will put us out of our misery early, and have Felicity join Oliver at the gravesite in a flashforward scene in 410.