Spoiler Discussion Thread

[kismet]

Do we think that SL will actually get any words this episode? Or will it all be growls and chain work for CL?

 

Because I really can't wait to see KC attempt to have a method acting session with a yipping CL about some poorly produced photos the prop department threw together at the last minute.

Edited October 27, 2015 by kismet

[lexicon]

I love how LL went from not even knowing about the Lazarus Pit's existence to apparently being SC's resident pit expert. Sara just needs a few days and some sister bonding time with the family photos, after that it'll be all good and then Daddy'll be happy and love her again...yikes.  I swear, lately I start hearing psycho-violin music when she walks onscreen.

 

The woman has not suffered a MOMENT of doubt since she decided to dig up Sara and toss her into the pit, which if it hadn't worked would've meant she'd desecrated her sister's body on a whim and a feeling. I just don't get that. Who does that? It really is approaching ridiculous levels of delusion. The only thing to save this story would be if she were really in the throes of some kind of mental breakdown but since I'm sure that is the one direction that this story will not be taking...there's no saving it or her IMO.

 

I really need her to be the one in the grave. The writers have shown she is the one character they cannot seem to write well or consistently. Plus, she adds nothing to the show. Who is Laurel Lance in the grand scheme of Oliver Queen's story as told in the context of the tv show Arrow? An ex girl friend who forced her way uninvited onto his team, her role as lawyer has been non existent, there are other and better fighters on the team and there are other ppl closer to Oliver who fulfill the various narrative purposes in his life i.e sister, best friend, life partner.

 

If you take her out of the show what happens? It gets better. I just need the writers to have the cojones to do what is necessary and not to let the Because Comics of it all stop them from doing what needs to be done. 

[Starfish35]

I wish they would kill her off. But killing her off after bringing back Sara would basically be admitting they made a mistake last year by killing Sara and keeping her. I don't think they're going to do that. The most I could hope for is that they will eventually put her on a bus, but I have no real hopes of that either. I don't understand why she's still on the show, but for whatever reason they seem to be determined to keep her.

[Sakura12]

LL has such a fleeting connection to Oliver, that she's not important to his story at all. Like they gave Sara everything Black Canary, they also gave her the deeper connection to Oliver and his story. She's even been tied to the major villains of the show, She lived with Oliver and Slade on the island and Shado died instead of her, She was trained by Ra's al Ghul, dated Nyssa al Ghul and was killed by Malcolm. With Darhk being on Legends, he'll have some kind of connection to Sara or her new team. LL means nothing to any of those villains. 

 

She hasn't been important to the narrative of the show since the beginning. I wish they would have the guts to cut their losses and make her the grave. 

[looptab]

 

Still episode 9 as far as I know. Episode 9 films until 10/27. If they continue to overlap 10/27 will also be the first day of 410

Shouldn't 410 start filming on 10/28?

[bijoux]

I wonder what John Constantine's reply to Oliver's call will be. I vote for, What the fuck have you done now, Queen?

...Nothing directly this time, although if you want to trace it back, I guess it started like 15 years ago when I noticed this girl in my class had grown breasts over the summer. Then, seven years later I took her sister on a sex cruise...

[Velocity23]

*sighs* WHY? *sadface*

 

[bijoux]

Ah, the cute.

 

 

 

And the "cute".

 

I love how his comes 20 seconds after Laurel "not needing Oliver's judgement".

 

ETA: I took a look at the preview comic again and you know what I've missed? "[Oliver] had a permanent grin on his face the whole way over here." OTA carpooled to the HQ together. Yasss!

Edited October 27, 2015 by bijoux

[Morrigan2575]

Shouldn't 410 start filming on 10/28?

They've been overlapping the start end dates for the episodes this season.  I don't know why but the final day of shooting for the previous episode is also the first day of shooting for the next episode, based on the dates listed on the scripts

[looptab]

They've been overlapping the start end dates for the episodes this season. I don't know why but the final day of shooting for the previous episode is also the first day of shooting for the next episode, based on the dates listed on the scripts

Oh, I hadn't noticed that. Thank you:)

[Guest]

*sighs* WHY? *sadface*

 

 

Why are they all standing there with folded arms? Is it contagious?! Is it an epidemic?! So weird. And there's something so stand-offish about that type of body language. I don't like it.

[bijoux]

Dig's only doing that to showcase his arms. Say thank you to the nice man.

[dtissagirl]

I wonder, is the arm crossing supposed to be humorous? It was played like that in 401 -- each of them crossed their arms consecutively while Oliver was softly and gently ordering them around, but it fell flat. And now they're doing it again, at Oliver's expense again. One more time and it's a gag.

[AyChihuahua]

So, Laurel doesn't want Oliver's judgment re raising her sister from the super, really, very dead and chaining said now-feral sister to a wall, but she definitely wants to give him HER judgment re him running unopposed for mayor.

 

I mean really, why do they write her like this?  She's basically just a total POS as a person now.

[SonofaBiscuit]

Hmm.  Oliver looks like he's over it.  He doesn't want anything to do with whatever Laurel, Thea, and Diggle are demanding.  Felicity's all like "Sorry, guys.  I'll get him to come around."  And Laurel looks PISSED.  God, why is she always so angry?  You might want to butter Oliver up, Laurel, because when he finds out about Sara...well...oh that's right, nothing's gonna happen.  Sigh.

[Morrigan2575]

Hmm.  Oliver looks like he's over it.  He doesn't want anything to do with whatever Laurel, Thea, and Diggle are demanding.  Felicity's all like "Sorry, guys.  I'll get him to come around."  And Laurel looks PISSED.  God, why is she always so angry?  You might want to butter Oliver up, Laurel, because when he finds out about Sara...well...oh that's right, nothing's gonna happen.  Sigh.

I thought EBR/Felicity's look wasn't about getting Oliver to come around to their line of thinking (which Is Oliver you're so wrong and stupid to try this).  It seems to me that Felicity is more pleading with Team ArrowLESS to be nice and support Oliver's decision.  As for why Laurel looks so Angry?  That's because it's KC and that's ALL she knows how to do, Angry/Bitchy/Snotty...I'm so done with KC and LL

[tangerine95]

Seriously Laurel looks so angry and annoyed in those pictures.And she's been that way in every scene with team arrow.I don't get if that's what they're going for or they just gave up and let KC do whatever.She always had the problem of looking that way but so far this season it somehow got a lot worse.

[SonofaBiscuit]

I thought EBR/Felicity's look wasn't about getting Oliver to come around to their line of thinking (which Is Oliver you're so wrong and stupid to try this).  It seems to me that Felicity is more pleading with Team ArrowLESS to be nice and support Oliver's decision

 

Yeah, I think you're right.  I clicked through all of the pictures in the Spoiler Only thread, and it looks like Oliver is explaining something to the team, Felicity is siding with him, and Team Arrow Less is having none of it.  At least Felicity and Oliver are a united front...that's good.  

[AyChihuahua]

The writers came up with a shockingly clever and believable scenario for Oliver to run for mayor: Nobody else wants the job.  And he really could do some good in the position.  So while I'm okay with initial shock and disbelief from the team (same as Felicity), I'd like for them not to be jerks about it, and instead see the upside relatively quickly.

[jay741982]

Yeah, I think you're right.  I clicked through all of the pictures in the Spoiler Only thread, and it looks like Oliver is explaining something to the team, Felicity is siding with him, and Team Arrow Less is having none of it.  At least Felicity and Oliver are a united front...that's good.

EBR I believe said herself that Felicity supports her man 100% with running for Mayor! I love them standing by each other like they do King and Queen of Team Arrow

[SmallScreenDiva]

Why are they all standing there with folded arms? Is it contagious?! Is it an epidemic?! So weird. And there's something so stand-offish about that type of body language. I don't like it.

 

 

Dig's only doing that to showcase his arms. Say thank you to the nice man.

 

Digg crosses his arms all the time, since Season 1, and I never thought of it as standoffish. It just seemed like one of his more comfortable poses (my aunt also said she likes it because it showcases the arms, LOL! She's saying thank you as well). But yeah, seeing them all three like that is quite hilarious actually. 

Edited October 27, 2015 by SmallScreenDiva

[lexicon]

I'd like for someone to explain to the TPTB that it is not necessary for Team Arrowless to be against Oliver (and Felicity) in order to show that Oliver and Felicity are a united front aka a team within a team.  I get some initial ..."say what??" when Oliver delivers his news but the body language is coming off as a bit more than that. I hope it only lasts for a short while because this shtick of them being eye roley and antagonistic every time Oliver opens his mouth is getting old. Friends can question each other without coming across as being jerks about it and we're supposed to buy that this team are united by more than just a shared need to save the city, so enough already.

[Guest]

Digg crosses his arms all the time, since Season 1, and I never thought of it as standoffish. It just seemed like one of his more comfortable poses (my aunt also said she likes it because it showcases the arms, LOL! She's saying thank you as well). But yeah, seeing them all three like that is quite hilarious actually.

Diggle never comes across as standoffish when he does it, I agree, but the three of them standing there together do, which is what I meant.

Edited October 27, 2015 by Guest

[kismet]

Dig's only doing that to showcase his arms. Say thank you to the nice man.

I'm not a body language reader/expert, but I believe there is a difference in how they are holding their arms. Dig's hands are under his arms, so I think it means something different. Whereas TQ & LL's hands are visible & flexed. Their stance seems more self-protective and defensive, closed off to whatever OQ is saying. Whereas because Dig's hands are not present, I think Dig is going more for a protective stance and displaying his strength (his arms). But there does seem to be an air of defiance in the 3 all doing it together.

Edited October 27, 2015 by kismet

[Chaser]

I need to know guys with big arms so I can ask if it's more comfortable to stand that way. And I just want to know guys with big arms.

 

I noticed in 4x01 that Thea was starting to stand like Laurel. Arms crossed with the hip cocked. I can see it in a meta way with Thea living with Laurel for the past few months. But WH needs to spend sometime with CL. 

[Morrigan2575]

Diggle never comes across as standoffish when he does it, I agree, but the three of them standing there together do, which is what I meant.

I agree, I think the problem is it's the 3 of them standing in a row doing it so it comes across as hostile.  Dig/DR does do it a lot, but it never comes off as stando-offish.  

[lemotomato]

 

I love how his comes 20 seconds after Laurel "not needing Oliver's judgement".

If she keeps making that face, it'll freeze that way.

 

Oh wait, too late.

Edited October 27, 2015 by lemotomato

[AyChihuahua]

If she keeps making that face, it'll stay that way.

 

Oh wait, too late.

She has basically gone from resting bitchface to constant bitchface.  She probably makes that face in her sleep.  While having lovely dreams.

 

That is also a terrible picture of KC.  She looks like she's 50.

[kismet]

I need to know guys with big arms so I can ask if it's more comfortable to stand that way. And I just want to know guys with big arms.

 

I noticed in 4x01 that Thea was starting to stand like Laurel. Arms crossed with the hip cocked. I can see it in a meta way with Thea living with Laurel for the past few months. But WH needs to spend sometime with CL. 

The thing I fear is that the more time TQ spends around LL, the more she will become that obnoxious brat she was in earlier seasons. S3 despite the brain washing really had WH/TQ come into her own and display strength in a multi-faceted way. But the more time she is spending with LL, the less I see the woman we met in s3 and the more I am seeing the brat I couldn't stand in earlier seasons.

 

LL is a bad influence on TQ, I really do not want her mentoring anyone. I'm not sure if WH is mirroring KC on purposes, perhaps she is and it might be a genius move if it turns out that plotwise we are supposed to believe that she is either under the bad influence of the LP or LL's bad decisions (both are equivalent at times). But I really hope this is a temporary stage for TQ/WH and once she starts spending more time with her brother she can be more s3 like and less bratty like.

[Sakura12]

We can see even more why Laurel is a terrible older sister/mentor. She's always thinking of herself first. She practically had to be forced by her dad to help Sara in that Arrow comic. That's why if we are supposed to get a sisterly relationship, I'd rather they bring Sin back for Sara. Plus that poor girl has no idea what happened to her big sis. 

 

I recently saw a fan vid that was supposed to showcase the Lance sister's relationship. They showed the flashback scene of Sara telling Laurel that Oliver's been 10 other women. I completely forgot that Laurel the delusion was strong in Laurel even in the past because said to Sara after that  "if you met a great guy and wanted to spend the rest of your life with him. I'd be happy for you". 

 

First off Oliver's not a great guy because he's cheated on her multiple times and second she'd be happy her sister wanted to marry a lying, cheating douche bag? Even though it was completely wrong of Sara to be hooking up with Oliver, she was trying to tell her sister that marrying him would be a huge mistake and she shouldn't go through with it. Because she would not have turned out happy. 

[lemotomato]

The thing I fear is that the more time TQ spends around LL, the more she will become that obnoxious brat she was in earlier seasons. S3 despite the brain washing really had WH/TQ come into her own and display strength in a multi-faceted way. But the more time she is spending with LL, the less I see the woman we met in s3 and the more I am seeing the brat I couldn't stand in earlier seasons.

LL is a bad influence on TQ, I really do not want her mentoring anyone. I'm not sure if WH is mirroring KC on purposes, perhaps she is and it might be a genius move if it turns out that plotwise we are supposed to believe that she is either under the bad influence of the LP or LL's bad decisions (both are equivalent at times). But I really hope this is a temporary stage for TQ/WH and once she starts spending more time with her brother she can be more s3 like and less bratty like.

Thea being a brat in seasons 1-3A made sense, since she was left out and being lied to by everyone in her life. Her acting bratty now, after knowing what Oliver's been doing the last couple years and that he gave up his life to save hers, makes me not like her very much. Maybe she's acting this way because of the LP, maybe because of Laurel's influence, I don't know. But I need to see someone supporting Oliver besides Felicity, and Thea should be that person, while Diggle figures out his trust issues. Edited October 27, 2015 by lemotomato

[kismet]

Thea being a brat in seasons 1-3A made sense, since she was left out and being lied to by everyone in her life. Her acting bratty now, after knowing what Oliver's been doing the last couple years and that he gave up his life to save hers, makes me not like her very much. Maybe she's acting this way because of the LP, maybe because of Laurel's influence, I don't know. But I need to see someone supporting Oliver besides Felicity, and Thea should be that person, since Diggle still has his lingering trust issues.

Especially because even in her brattiness, the one thing that was constant was her love for her brother. That seems to have vanished this season. But I have hopes it will come back, perhaps after Constantine does his thing and LL gets some help.

[tangerine95]

I think having so many scenes with Laurel is dragging Thea down.She has an interesting story but being that poor character that has to spend time with Laurel so she has someone besides her dad to talk to is not doing her any favors.Tbh I'm just glad its not Felicity.I knew someone had to be sacrificed and Thea made the most sense.I just figured it would be your usual proping not Thea being used and asked to lie to her brother after promising to be honest with each other.

I just hope Thea is free soon since we know she will be helping Oliver run for mayor and probably meeting her new LI.Maybe that leaves less time for Laurel to manipulate her.

[looptab]

At the moment I'm not worried for Oliver/Thea. Yes, she's acted a little bratty, but mostly because she didn't know/didn't realize anything was wrong with her and saw him just hovering over her or questioning her every move. I would have been pissed too. I'm sure the campaign will be good for their relationship, as SA said.

 

BTW, not a single one of the last interviews mentioned Laurel. Do you think they're holding some bits to release before this week's episode, or it's just that none of the actors interviewed had anything to say about her  - meaning their storylines don't involve her? 

[kismet]

At the moment I'm not worried for Oliver/Thea. Yes, she's acted a little bratty, but mostly because she didn't know/didn't realize anything was wrong with her and saw him just hovering over her or questioning her every move. I would have been pissed too. I'm sure the campaign will be good for their relationship, as SA said.

 

BTW, not a single one of the last interviews mentioned Laurel. Do you think they're holding some bits to release before this week's episode, or it's just that none of the actors interviewed had anything to say about her  - meaning their storylines don't involve her? 

I feel like the Queens will get back on track, so I'm not too worried.

 

I can answer your question two ways -

1. Yes, her story is so top-secret and amazing that nobody knows or is allowed to talk about it (this is the optimistic version if you like LL or believe the writers give a damn about her.)

2. Yes, the other characters' storylines do not include LL because they still have no idea how to include her in organic storylines and are finding a way to ramp down her character to make her more expendable than she already is. (this is the optimistic version if you dislike LL and believe that she is the winner of the annual contest "Who died on Arrow")

[tv echo]

Basically...

Laurel: We can't tell Oliver about Sara, Thea! I don't need his judgement..

.

Laurel: Can anyone help me fix this? Oliver? Anyone?

Laurel doesn't ask, she makes demands.  So more likely scenario:

Laurel: "Oliver, help me fix this now!"

 

LMAO. I genuinely think the O/L scene is them becoming better friends. Oliver will probably say how much he admires that Laurel believed in Sara's soul SO MUCH!!!! I'm getting ready to roll my eyes already! 

 

Why are they all standing there with folded arms? Is it contagious?! Is it an epidemic?! So weird. And there's something so stand-offish about that type of body language. I don't like it.

I think that's the show's default stance to show someone is Strong and Independent and Equal to Oliver on TA.

 

The new Arrowcave was built with help from Cisco and Star Labs. So I picture Cisco hooking up the computer equipment, Oliver hammering away (using secret construction skills learned while 'on the island'), and Barry flashing around to move things into place with his superspeedy-enhanced strength.

Edited October 27, 2015 by tv echo

[Chaser]

I'm not really surprised that SA and EBR didn't mention her (though SA did in a general way). 

 

We haven't heard much from PB, so there may be something there.

Edited October 27, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[looptab]

I'm not really surprised that SA and EBR didn't mention her (though SA did in a general way). 

 

I was a little surprise PB didn't mention Laurel. 

Me too. That's why I thought there might be some more info coming, otherwise it's kinda awkward. I mean, SA found a way to mention both Diggle and Thea. IT's true that no one asked about her, though, ahah.

[Velocity23]

Lance has always been the moral center of the show. So how is he handling this position he's now in?

Blackthorne: Once he's confronted on that, it's a struggle. But as villains often do, they will do bad things for what they identify as good reasons. Lance thought he was doing a good thing here because that's how Darhk presented himself at first. That he would be a positive force for the city and all he needed was a few favors here and there in various areas. Sort of gray stuff, shady stuff, but nothing life-threatening or destructive. And yet that's the area that Darhk went into ultimately. And when Lance started questioning Darhk on what he was truly doing, he threatened his daughter. And he's already been through the middle of that with his other daughter Sara, so the last thing he wanted to do was be the reason for Laurel (Katie Cassidy) being killed.

Lance finds out that Laurel resurrected Sara (Caity Lotz) this week. How does he react to this?

Blackthorne: In good old-fashioned Arrow style, there's lots of neurosis going on with it. Because of course it's an incredible thing that he's seeing his daughter in front of him, returned from wherever she may have been, but he can detect instantly she's not there in spirit. And what a dreadful thing for a father to realize that his daughter's there, but not there. All he can see is the pain and suffering that's going on with her. And if that's the case, then what could you do? Do you keep this girl alive in this state with the pain she's in? Or do you do something about it? And that's what we see in this forthcoming episode.

 

Is Lance angry at all with Laurel for resurrecting Sara?

Blackthorne: I don't think angry is the right word. He's mystified as to what's happened here. This supernatural world is not one that he's familiar with and not one that he's able to understand. So whether he's angry with Laurel is probably not the case, but certainly mystified and obviously frustrated that here she is back like this. And yes, Laurel, you've brought her back, but what the hell is this? You've brought her back, but you haven't brought her back. What's going on, you know? And it's interesting the places Lance turns to in order to resolve the situation because Laurel doesn't seem to know what to do with it at this stage.

 

How would you describe the Lance family dynamic going forward?

Blackthorne: The family dynamic's great because there's so much baggage now. ... Laurel and Quentin are getting to this point now where both of us have done so many things over these recent years, some negative things and desperate things, and kept secrets from each other. But I think they're reaching a maturity in some way that they can understand, given the complexity of this city and the characters in it, that it's just the corners they've been forced into. It's almost like they're in this new place now, the situation with Laurel and Lance. It's not necessarily that they'll take things personally.

http://www.tvguide.com/news/arrow-paul-blackthorne-lance-damien-darhk/

Edited October 27, 2015 by Velocity23

[kismet]

I can't remember, did KC do any of these on-set interviews? I thought at first KC & PB both were shooting or unable to do interviews. But now it seems that PB did do some interviews.

 

The lack of questions regarding LL and the lack of actors casually dropping her into their answers does mean something, but people's mileage will vary on what it all means.

[Velocity23]

KC wasnt on set. David and Willa were on set but couldnt do interviews.

[looptab]

I hope this next episode will shed some light on what the hell Quentin was thinking re Darhk, otherwise PB doesn't make sense. I want to know what DD proposed to him that Lance actually thought he was a positive force. Let's chase the man who's been saving the city for the past three years, but let's open the doors for the shady criminal who does shady stuff? ok.

Edited October 27, 2015 by looptab

[Velocity23]

Paul is starting to really annoy me with his getting Lance laid crap. Ugh just keep that awful family away from the Smoak women

 

Mama Smoak (Charlotte Ross) is returning. There are a lot of fans who want to see Lance and Donna together. Is there any chance of that happening?
If there’s one man in the DC comic book universe that needs to get laid, it’s Lance. Let’s face it. #GetLanceLaid. If that turns out the way it does, I think it’s a hilarious pairing. To go from Dinah (Alex Kingston) to Donna is quite the contrast and not something that Lance would be expecting himself to react to, but of course, once that woman walks into the room, I think any man is going to have a reaction, notwithstanding Lance. It’s an interesting combination, the two of them together, it’s a big of an odd pairing. But as long as it ends up with Lance getting laid, I’d be very, very happy about it. Or Lance would be happy about it.

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/10/27/arrow-paul-blackthorne-lance-betrayal-sara-resurrection

[apinknightmare]

Well, that was gross.

[kismet]

KC wasnt on set. David and Willa were on set but couldnt do interviews.

Thanks! Shame I would have love to hear DR & WH thoughts on the season, since they have some good character-driven plot this season.

[BunsenBurner]

 

The new Arrowcave was built with help from Cisco and Star Labs. So I picture Cisco hooking up the computer equipment, Oliver hammering away (using secret construction skills learned while 'on the island'), and Barry flashing around to move things into place with his superspeedy-enhanced strength.

I don't think Oliver got his construction skills on the island. You must realize that they come when the superheroes are given their name! Green Arrow and the Flash are now top notch carpenters.

Green Arrow wasn't given his powers until he got the Green in his name.

[Happy Harpy]

Why are they all standing there with folded arms? Is it contagious?! Is it an epidemic?! So weird. And there's something so stand-offish about that type of body language. I don't like it.

I think it might be the direction at work here. Like a visual signal that they are a team, a united front, totally brother and sisters in arms and Diggle is so much closer to Laurel and Thea than to Oliver and Felicity, excuse me while I die laughing or barfing, I don't know.

Edited October 27, 2015 by Happy Harpy

[kismet]

I don't care how he got his super carpenter skills, I just want to see the bloody skills. OQ using his skills to help build the original ArrowCave was a thing of visual beauty. I'm not even ashamed to say I want to see him do it again.

 

On a story level, it also made me want to invest more in the journey because I saw how much work went into it and how it was a labor of love. So I became invested in that space. It's the same reason why I was invested in the upgrades knowing the Dig & FS spent their time and money improving it as a labor of love. I'm not that invested in a space no matter how cool it looks if someone just buys it that way or pays for someone else to do the work.

[SonofaBiscuit]

But as long as it ends up with Lance getting laid, I’d be very, very happy about it.

 

 

Ew Paul, eww.  I used to root for a Donna/Lance relationship, but after what they've done to Quentin, I'll pass.  Plus, I don't care to see Donna heartbroken when Lance most likely kicks the bucket.    

[bethy]

I'm trying to keep an open mind about the crossed-arms pic, but I'm going to be very frustrated if we go from an episode that reunited OTA and restored the Oliver/Diggle dynamic to have - the very next episode - Diggle standing with Laurel and Thea against Oliver. I mean, could he stand between the factions, at least. But like I said, I'm trying to keep an open mind to see how it actually plays out.