Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Password]

Bleh, although I honestly can't imagine why that would be given that Ra's seems to want her dead.

Right? It must be another prophecy. Whoever survives Al Sahim's sword must marry him immediately.

[Chaser]

I find it funny that KL is like 'Its so Shocking!' and MG is like 'It makes Sense.'

 

I can't wait for 3.22 and all the specualtion to be over.

[SonofaBiscuit]

Yes, I think it will be Oliver and Nyssa as well, and I think that MG has been putting out the wedding hints because he's probably a bit afraid of how people will react.  Dude does NOT accurately predict people's reactions ever, so I can understand why he would want to get that out there and warn people.  I'd love for people to rip him to shreds on twitter.  I can't wait to see the reactions to this episode.

[apinknightmare]

Right? It must be another prophecy. Whoever survives Al Sahim's sword must marry him immediately.

 

Maybe they'll go balls-to-the-wall batshit crazy and have it be Laurel and Nyssa. 

 

If I were writing this ridiculousness, I'd have Oliver and Nyssa marry, and then in the very last scene of the finale (not sure if Oliver and Felicity actually ride off into the sunset or if that's a misdirection, but I'd have them for real riding off into the sunset in this scenario), I'd have Oliver say something like, "There's still the 'married-to-Nyssa' thing to deal with," and Felicity would say, "actually...." and then show flashbacks of Nyssa and Felicity trading places before the ceremony. It's the ultimate troll. Married but not married, fun times. 

 

Especially because I'd rather they not go there with Oliver and Nyssa. She's gay (maybe she's bi and it's never been mentioned, IDK), and even though the wedding won't mean anything to Oliver once he's out of the League, she grew up in that tradition, and it would mean something to her. Just...don't go there show, please.

Edited April 29, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Morrigan2575]

How do you go from eliminating contenders to Ra's Al Ghul (Oliver has to kill Nyssa) to they have to marry for the sake of the LoA?  Which seems to make no sense, since there's no indication that Ra's is married or that any of the other LoA members are married or producing heirs.  I just don't get it.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[Password]

Which seems to make no sense

Yes, I'd say we're here right now.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Password

[looptab]

I feel so sad/embarrassed for those commenters under the ET article who proudly stated they're going with jbuffyangel's wedding theory. I hope they're prepared.

[Chaser]

I feel so sad/embarrassed for those commenters under the ET article who proudly stated they're going with jbuffyangel's wedding theory. I hope they're prepared.

I cringe everytime I see that theory going around tumblr.

 

It's one thing to think its a possiblity but its another to conform EVERY spoiler to fit the end you want. Granted that is her MO. This sounds mean and I do agree with some of her observations but I really just can't with the confidence.

[tv echo]

It certainly sounds like an Oliver-Nyssa wedding will be the thing that shocks everyone.  An Oliver-Felicity wedding would not shock anyone, so I think that theory is out the window.  (However, I still wouldn't put it past the EPs to surprise us with an Oliver-Laurel wedding to pay homage to the comics - esp. AK's GA/BC comics - for some contrived reason. That would be a big shock, considering how they've downplayed her interactions with Oliver in recent episodes.)

 

About the spoiler of Oliver & Felicity riding off into the sunset in a Porsche...  It just sounds too fantasy-like to be real (and how can Oliver afford a Porsche?).  I now think that Oliver won't break through his LOA conditioning until 3x23.  Maybe that breakthrough involves a montage of "Oliver Queen"'s hopes and dreams for the future (which would include the Porsche ride scene) -- things that will never happen if he gives up on being OQ.

Edited April 29, 2015 by tv echo

[apinknightmare]

No one would get married of their own volition at this point in time IMO. So, the shocking part has to be some kind of twist that Ra's puts on it (if Oliver marries Nyssa, he won't kill her, although WHY that would be condition, I don't even know. I guess because that eliminates the threat because she'll be married to the Ra's and less likely to oust him? But...why not just kill her if you were going to anyway?), so it's got to be a League wedding, so I'm not sure at all how Oliver and Laurel would fit into that. No way is Ra's letting him marry Felicity, because she already told Ra's she'd go to war with him, and that kind of nullifies Ra's telling her to have one last night with Oliver because he was going to destroy him.

 

Based on the summary for 3x22, I think it's Nyssa. Also, it would be the grossest thing they could do, so that's also why I think it's Nyssa, haha.

Edited April 29, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Velocity23]

But how is he helping Barry in 1x22 Flash if he still under league voodoo in 3x23.

[apinknightmare]

But how is he helping Barry in 1x22 Flash if he still under league voodoo in 3x23.

 

Maybe it's an AU Oliver?

[looptab]

I cringe everytime I see that theory going around tumblr.

 

It's one thing to think its a possiblity but its another to conform EVERY spoiler to fit the end you want. Granted that is her MO. This sounds mean and I do agree with some of her observations but I really just can't with the confidence.

Same, to both your points. I can appreciate some metas and stuff like that, but predictions are really not her forte.

[Carrie Ann]

It's also possible that he is under orders to do something about Reverse Flash; or that he is starting to have this breakthrough by end of 322, but is not fully out of the woods. Who knows? This whole brainwashing thing is ridiculous.

 

And yep, signs are pointing to Oliver/Nyssa and UGH that is gross, and makes even less sense here where Ra's skipped right over his own biological child as heir and picked someone he found more fitting. No need for the new Ra's to have actual heirs.

[tv echo]

Maybe season 3 will end - not with Oliver realizing he can be both Oliver Queen and the Arrow - but with Oliver concluding that he can somehow be both Oliver Queen and the new Ra's al Ghul.  In other words, he remains in the LOA going into season 4.  Then in season 4, he slowly disentangles himself from the LOA and somehow becomes Green Arrow.

 

C'mon, every other superhero got their iconic names pretty quickly (Flash, Arsenal, Black Canary, Atom, Firestorm).  But Oliver is still slogging along on his journey.  He's been marooned, shot, stabbed, tortured, orphaned, almost killed, sacrificed, and brainwashed.  He spent a year as the Hood, then two years as the Arrow... and he still hasn't earned the right yet to be called Green Arrow?

 

I dunno - it just seems like the title of 3x23 ("My Name Is Oliver Queen") is leading us to conclude one thing, but could be an EP fake-out/twist.

Edited April 29, 2015 by tv echo

[Morrigan2575]

No one would get married of their own volition at this point in time IMO. So, the shocking part has to be some kind of twist that Ra's puts on it (if Oliver marries Nyssa, he won't kill her, although WHY that would be condition, I don't even know. I guess because that eliminates the threat because she'll be married to the Ra's and less likely to oust him? But...why not just kill her if you were going to anyway?), so it's got to be a League wedding, so I'm not sure at all how Oliver and Laurel would fit into that. No way is Ra's letting him marry Felicity, because she already told Ra's she'd go to war with him, and that kind of nullifies Ra's telling her to have one last night with Oliver because he was going to destroy him.

 

Based on the summary for 3x22, I think it's Nyssa. Also, it would be the grossest thing they could do, so that's also why I think it's Nyssa, haha.

In what world does that make sense?  (And I'm not directing that at you, I'm directing it at the EPs if that is in fact their reasoning).  Because no forced/political marriage would ever result in one spouse trying to murder the other in order to claim power/money/throne?  Do they NOT have HBO?  Never read a historical novel?  

Edited April 29, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[blixie]

 

How do you go from eliminating contenders to Ra's Al Ghu

 

I assume the marriage is supposed to be the way she is "eliminated", is there explicit evidence Ras wants Nyssa dead? Oliver is supposed to track her down and bring her back to Nanda Parbat, 

 

 

She's gay (maybe she's bi and it's never been mentioned, IDK)

 

Right? My ish is not that Nyssa is gay, bisexuals are gay, and Nyssa has never identified in canon as a lesbian, but my bigger issue is that it's a manipulation/bribe to usurp her rightful place as Ras al Ghul, a  place she is being denied because she was weak enough to "fall in love" and because she fell in love with woman. And I mean not only does Nyssa not seem in to guys generally but she has particularly disdain for Oliver, because of his romantic history with Sara. It's just the oogiest of all options so of course it's the way Guggenheim would go. It's arguably the only way he knows how to go. 

 

 

Because no forced/political marriage would ever result in one spouse trying to murder the other in order to claim power/money/throne?  Do they NOT have HBO?  Never read a historical novel?

 

I 100% agree, and I'm trying very hard to hope this is still a PLAN between Oliver/Nyssa, but the only thing I can think of is that IF the LoA is all about it's rules and rites and procedures there must be something about Nyssa publically conceding the title to the rank and file of the LoA via the marriage. IDEK. I'm so tired of trying to make sense of their fuckshit.

Edited April 29, 2015 by blixie

[Belinea]

Based on the summary for 3x22, I think it's Nyssa. Also, it would be the grossest thing they could do, so that's also why I think it's Nyssa, haha.

 

Nothing about the LoA storyline makes a lot of sense. So Ra's wants Oliver to be his heir because he survived his blade. Wouldn't that mean that Oliver is already powerful enough to be the leader? Right now he is just one of the people under Ra's. They make him forget things but he still remembers what is necessary? I think they force him to detach himself from his old life. He will remember them all but no longer have emotions towards them. But who knows.

Nyssa wasn't a threat but now is all of sudden. So in order to eliminate the threat she has to be married to the new heir. It is so stupid and disrespectful. She, the only gay character left, will be forced to enter a loveless marriage that is neither shocking nor appealing to any viewer. I want to see the viewer who thinks that Oliver/Nyssa is a good idea as far as storylines go. Or will she be married to Al-Sahim? 

 

The finale title should be an indication that Oliver will be himself again. By that point he will probably have destroyed his relationship with Diggle. Felicity wasn't mentioned but I do believe that the car scene is real and will be a good scene for them. Whether they are on good terms or not is a waiting game.

Oliver will probably still be married to Nyssa, so that makes is all the more appealing to the viewer. Imo, the only shocking marriage at this point would be O/F or Nyssa/Laurel. That I would not see coming. 

 

But at some point the season should have some sort of 'end'. I don't think the LoA will still be such a big thing after the break. At least I hope they won't be. 

It is sad because last year I was so excited for the final episodes of S2. This year I just want it to be over. If even SA thinks that he didn't know how Oliver will be able to make up for what he does in 3x21 then I imagine it to be bad. I am not sure that after this season I need things to be more awful. 

[calliope1975]

Yep, won't be watching that wedding. I'm done with ladyfolk being manipulated by dudes on this show. I can handle once or twice, but they've used up their good will with me. 

[AyChihuahua]

Oliver looks, other than the outfit, pretty normal in the Flash pics.  Depending on whether they've now accounted for Flash being a week behind, he's either unbrainwashed at the end of 21 or 22.  He obviously wouldn't be out about no longer being brainwashed, though, as he's still in the LOA and has to defeat Ra's.  I'm going to watch that episode of Flash because I have no emotional investment in that show (other than loving Cisco), and I'm really curious to see how Barry contacts Oliver, his reaction to Oliver's new getup, and how Oliver leaves NP in the middle of everything to help himi.

 

It is Oliver and Nyssa for exactly one reason: Batman.  It makes no sense within the show, and will never make any sense.  It's just a Batman ripoff.  I can't imagine they'd have sex, though...not to be crass but I can't imagine Oliver could make that happen. 

 

I am quite positive the LOA stuff will be over, other than maybe some mop-up, by the end of the season.  Ratings are still good, but it's very, very rare for genre shows to have a main season-long storyline last more than one season, unless it's an overarching thing from the beginning (the Observers in Fringe, for example).  Plus, it's been pretty excoriated by critics and commenters, and they're already talking about the new S4 villain.

 

I am expecting Nyssa to be the new Ra's, but I'd be fine with it being Merlyn, too.  Then he could go back to being the actual villain...however, I don't see how he could be a regular next season as Ra's.

[Guest]

I feel like stomping my feet like a child because this second wedding is annoying me so much. I don't want it, for anyone. Not for Oliver/Nyssa (who I really think it's going to be) and certainly not for Oliver/Felicity because they're not ready. The whole thing makes no sense plot wise. Really, what is the point of a marriage here? Will it add anything to the story? Will it tell us anything new? NOPE. It's completely contrived nonsense. 

 

I just want this season over with already. 

 

 

I feel so sad/embarrassed for those commenters under the ET article who proudly stated they're going with jbuffyangel's wedding theory. I hope they're prepared.

 

Me too. OMG I can't with her theories. I think it's the smugness that really gets to me. She knows as much as we do and has warped everything to fit and yet is so confident about it. I'd be so embarrassed. Why are there so many sheep in this fandom? I don't understand.

[blixie]

 

I'm done with ladyfolk being manipulated by dudes on this show.

 

Yeah it makes me think of Tom and Verna in Miller's Crossing: “…Intimidating helpless women is my job.” “Then go find one, and intimidate her.”

 

 

I'm really curious to see how Barry contacts Oliver,

Yeah I want to know even if he's faux brainwashed, does Barry know, and how exactly did Barry reach out to him about Reverse Flash? How does anyone contact the LoA? Dark wings, dark words? Does NP have it's own cell tower?

[quarks]

Maybe it's me, but I'm not sure how we're jumping from:

 

Nyssa is connected to the wedding as much as any other member of Team Arrow is connected to the wedding. Everybody is shocked and nobody sees it coming. I can’t say too much about it but it’s definitely a shock to everybody.

 

 

 

To "that does it, X couple is definitely getting married." All I'm getting from it is that the wedding is a surprise, which might mean:

 

1. It's a plot twist. SURPRISE!  (Well, it's Arrow, so maybe not all that surprising.)

 

2. Viewers (and possibly characters) will think one thing is going on (Oliver just said "I love you" to Felicity/Roy dying) when actually it's something else ("Mind stabbing Slade for me? Thanks much."/"Beta blockers: the ARGUS approved way of faking death!  Ask YOUR Argus agent about Beta Blocker Deaths Today!") SURPRISE!

 

3. We'll see a wedding in episode 322, but won't find out who it is until episode 323. SURPRISE!

 

4. As I've been arguing for pages now, it is the salmon ladder - but surprise! Rather than marrying the cosmic treadmill, the romance we've all been hoping for, the salmon ladder is marrying Oliver's costume and putting on the hood! I know, I know - but think of everything they have in common, and by everything they have in common, I of course mean Oliver's abs. Which is more than enough to base a relationship on - just ask Felicity.  SURPRISE!

 

5. It's a plot twist.  SURPRISE!

 

Or it might just mean that everyone's surprised that anyone bothered to get married in the middle of a major League of Assassins plot and just because it's sweeps months instead of waiting until a quieter time period. I can see that.  (I have similar questions about an upcoming event on Flash.)  But - surprise! - I'm thinking plot twist, because this show.

[Password]

I just...number 4 is really popping out at me.

[AyChihuahua]

I'd say most people are mentally preparing themselves for the worst case scenario, which is definitely Nyssa and Oliver.  Because it's gross and makes no sense.  But, that's also why that's probably who it is, because Guggie.

 

Also, in terms of it's so shocking, OMG you'll never see it coming...there's been pretty much nothing, except maybe Roy not dying, that has actually been shocking or even remotely surprising all season. 

Edited April 29, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[tarotx]

I'm mostly against Nyssa/Oliver because the forced nature of it. They hate each other. Plus they both slept with Sara. If they are going to go that route I rather Sara be alive and join in. Otherwise ew For me since Oliver has already sister swaped Laurel and Sara. Even if the marriage is sexless like I pray it is...

I guess this potential marriage would allow Ra's to have his cake and eat it to. The prophecy implies Oliver must be the next Ras. The league demands those who are contenders be dealt with. So he'll have an arranged royal wedding of sorts. Plus Ras won't have to worry about having to slice his daughter to the near death to fit the prophecy.

But yeah the real reason would be because DC(or whomever)wouldn't let them make a batman series so they are using Oliver Queen to tell Batman stories even when it doesn't make sense...

Edited April 29, 2015 by tarotx

[lemotomato]

Yep, won't be watching that wedding. I'm done with ladyfolk being manipulated by dudes on this show. I can handle once or twice, but they've used up their good will with me.

It's not just the women that have been manipulated this season, but Oliver as well, first by Malcom Merlyn, then by Ra's. I'm completely sick of everyone being dumbed down or mind raped by special herbs just so the villans can push the plot along. The only person that hasn't had her agency taken away this season was Laurel, for crying out loud.

[SonofaBiscuit]

Yes, I didn't even read the Katrina Law interviews...I'm just figuring it's Nyssa and Oliver because that choice is the most offensive one, and it seems to fit with how the women on this show are treated.

[tarotx]

And Laurel herself is taking her own identify away to become her sisters...

[lemotomato]

Also, when KL said the wedding would be a surprise to everybody, does she mean "everybody" as the characters or the viewers? Because I can believe the characters would be shocked by a N/O wedding, but it sure won't be a surprise to the audience, at least to anyone that's familiar with the comics.

[SonofaBiscuit]

I got a slightly weird vibe from that Laurel/Nyssa video...the music, both women stepping toward each other.  Like, maybe they are going to try something romantic between the two.  Probably just me.  

[tv echo]

Didn't one of the EPs say that we'd find out how CL returns in the spring?  Well, it's spring.  What if it is Sara turning up alive, and she marries Nyssa?

Edited April 29, 2015 by tv echo

[nksarmi]

I don't care what anyone is saying, I'm not giving up my hope that the wedding is Roy and Thea until they smack me with on screen.  I held out hope that Roy wasn't dead even when the spoilers looked bad so I'm staying in denial until forced out of it. 

 

In regards to villains manipulating people and such, I don't really mind that because I want smart villains who fool people and don't just stand around and say grr.  But it has to be a villains like notWells/RF over on Flash where people don't actually look stupid for falling for the villains scheming.

 

And I also need people to you know - recognize the villain as the villains once the bad thing they did gets revealed.  You know, instead of having the villain mind-rape one character to kill another character and then manipulate a third character into fighting a battle for him and nearlydying in the process only to continue to be protected by all the good guys on the show! 

[Chasity]

Did MG ever say that the wedding was taking place in a courthouse?

[Velocity23]

What did Nyssa do that is considered a betrayal?

[blixie]

 

Maybe it's me, but I'm not sure how we're jumping from:

 

With respect nobody is jumping, this has been discussed ad nauseum, and via numerous statements from Guggenheim and now Katrina the narrowing down process is basically:

 

Oliver and Nyssa

 

Oliver and Felicity

 

Because now it's two people who have never been married, both major players, it's a wedding and a marriage that may or may not continue into S4, and now it's wedding that NYSSA is connected to as much as anyone in TA. Nyssa would not be as connect to Thea/Roy, and honestly I can't see her being connected to Oliver and Felicity either, so by process of elimination TA is connected via Oliver and Nyssa is connected because it's her damn wedding. Now I guess it could be surprise alive Sara or Laurel as they are the only other characters that cold be thusly connected to both Nyssa and TA.

[Starfish35]

I feel like stomping my feet like a child because this second wedding is annoying me so much. I don't want it, for anyone. Not for Oliver/Nyssa (who I really think it's going to be) and certainly not for Oliver/Felicity because they're not ready. The whole thing makes no sense plot wise. Really, what is the point of a marriage here? Will it add anything to the story? Will it tell us anything new? NOPE. It's completely contrived nonsense.

I just want this season over with already.

WORD to all of this. I hate this wedding thing so much, no matter who it turns out to be. :(

[nksarmi]

What did Nyssa do that is considered a betrayal?

Yes please tell me the show is going to answer that question, right?  Or do I have to toss another coin in the no plots are going to make any f-ing sense this year fountain?!?!?!?

[Chaser]

Laurel and Irony. Technically, she has the most agency because she is making her own decisions and doing what she wants to do. However, she is the one who actually needs to listen to these guys (and by guys I mean the experienced Heroes).

 

And the whole sister thing. Is it her agency or her sisters?

 

They really should have started the Ra's thing at the begining to the season. Maybe Oliver caught his eye after the attack by Slade, that was actually something to pay attention too. And he should have been Evil!Oliver when he came back from the dead.

 

Or Ra's could have been like The First on Buffy and just loomed over the series until the finale season.

[Carrie Ann]

It is sad because last year I was so excited for the final episodes of S2. This year I just want it to be over.

 

Last year, I could not wait to watch the last episodes, but I was also sad after each because we were one week closer to the end of the season. Now I can't wait for each episode because it brings us closer to the end of this season. When it's over, I'm gonna need to burn some sage around my Tivo and hope MG, GB, and WM take some time to review where things went right in the first two seasons and where they went wrong in this one and make some adjustments.

 

And again, the wedding thing confuses me because of Oliver's appearance in CC in 122. They had time to plan for the adjusted airing dates of these episodes, so it should take place between 322 and 323. If he is marrying Nyssa, I would have assumed that would happen in NP, upon his return with her. But I'm gonna guess Ra's will just show up in SC again, maybe when Oliver fails to kill her or bring her back, and the whole wedding shit will go down there? Someone remind me if we've seen pics of Nyssa in NP from the next few episodes?

Edited April 29, 2015 by Carrie Ann

[AyChihuahua]

With the new "Nyssa is connected" thing, it is either Nyssa and Oliver, or supposed to be Nyssa and Oliver but somehow Felicity gets substituted.  I can't see why TA would bother to sub her in, though, because the wedding would mean nothing afterwards anyway.  The only tactical reason I can think of is to surprise Ra's, etc., when the veil comes off and it's Felicity, while Nyssa is standing behind him planning to run him through, maybe. 

[Velocity23]

There was some filming going on with Team Arrow +Laurel + Katana for 3x22. Looked like NP scenery.

[Chasity]

What did Nyssa do that is considered a betrayal?

Would the fact that she just walked away from the league be considered a betrayal? Isn't that why they went after Sara in 2x05?

[Chaser]

Can I just say that I hate the whole idea that they would substitute Felicity for Nyssa? There is some fanfic that should stay fanfic.

 

Since the gang goes to Nanda in 3.22 and that's the episode with Ray, I wonder if Felicity asks to borrow his jet again.

[AyChihuahua]

Ra's told her to leave.  She said she wouldn't watch her birthright be given to Oliver, so he pretty much told her to GTFO. 

 

The good thing about whatever got Ra's all pissy at her is that she wasn't going to betray the LOA before, but him trying to kill/marry her off to Oliver will probably get her fully on TA's side.

 

"Can I just say that I hate the whole idea that they would substitute Felicity for Nyssa? There is some fanfic that should stay fanfic."

I don't think it's going to happen.  I think Oliver and Nyssa are going to get League-married.  Luckily it won't mean anything in S4, and is hopefully part of a plot to kill the shit out of Ra's...preferably slowly and oh-so-painfully.  I just think at this point that's the only way it's not Nyssa and Oliver.

 

Unless maybe this has all been a really weird motivational seminar by Ra's to get Nyssa out of her funk, and once that happens he trots out Sara and marries her off to Nyssa as Nyssa's reward.  With this show, who knows.

Edited April 29, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[Morrigan2575]

Yes, I didn't even read the Katrina Law interviews...I'm just figuring it's Nyssa and Oliver because that choice is the most offensive one, and it seems to fit with how the women on this show are treated.

This statement is just so sad and should never really be said about any show.  It's a shame that the producers have mishandled stories to the point that people have this thought in the back of their heads.

[apinknightmare]

Can I just say that I hate the whole idea that they would substitute Felicity for Nyssa? There is some fanfic that should stay fanfic

 

I hate it too, but I find it preferable to a lesbian (as far as we know) unwillingly marrying a man. At least Felicity loves Oliver, and a LoA marriage would literally mean nothing to either of them. It would to Nyssa.

Edited April 29, 2015 by apinknightmare

[tarotx]

Switching Nyssa with Felicity would leave Felicity open to have a Sword through her chest with no protection unlike the Miraku syringe last season. Perhaps a Laurel as substitution since she'll have her new trained by Nyssa skill and the canary cry? Plus comics...

[Chaser]

Switching Nyssa with Felicity would leave Felicity open to have a Sword through her chest with no protection unlike the Miraku syringe last season. Perhaps a Laurel as substitution since she'll have her new trained by Nyssa skill and the canary cry? Plus comics...

I just got an image of Oliver lifting the veil and Laurel just screaming at him. LOL

 

It's something out of a horror movie.

 

I could see it though. They gave Felicity the fakeout hero moment with Slade last season maybe they think Laurel is due.

[AyChihuahua]

Laurel is a lot closer to Nyssa in height...