Spoiler Discussion Thread

[HighHopes]

Here's my final say. Hating a character is fine. I have characters I hate so I get that. What I don't get is hating Ray for doing a, b, and c when other characters have also done a, b, and c and don't get hate for it. I also don't understand disliking something Felicity does with Ray, but knowing that there has been headcanons and fic written about Felicity doing the exact same thing with Oliver (now I don't necessarily like those headcanons/fics but they are out there written by the same people who dislike it when Felicity does the same things with Ray). 

 

And IMO, it's difficult to say that the hate for Ray started before he became a love interest for Felicity so it's not about him being an obstacle, because Ray was introduced before the season even started as a love interest for Felicity. And I have seen people say (on other boards, no here) that they can't forgive Ray even though the writing wasn't so stellar for him, but they are willing to forgive the less than great writing if it means Oliver and Felicity get together. 

 

I said before i used a blanket statement in one of my earlier posts, and I later apologized for that. I didn't mean to lump the entire fandom together. 

Edited April 11, 2015 by HighHopes

[Carrie Ann]

Right--I think we're all cool when we're addressing individuals' opinions on this board. So if you see someone here saying "I saw Ray do X but when Oliver did very similar X it didn't bother me," and you want to call that out, then okay, but that person still has the right to say that they don't agree they were exactly the same and that that nuance makes a difference to them. The fandom clearly contains multitudes as far as opinions are concerned, on every character, action, episode, whatever, and it's frustrating for anyone to have their opinion disregarded particularly when it is being misrepresented.

 

Anyway, personally, after what we've seen of Raylicity, I'm tempted to break my no-contact rule with MG again and beg them not to make O/F like this when they're together. I agree with all of you saying you can't picture it ever being this way, but prior to this season, I couldn't picture a lot of things being the way they are now. I don't think SA would ever act in a way that he would find OOC for Oliver, but I'm not sure EBR has that level of confidence...or maybe she just likes playing this level of broad comedy with Felicity. I'm not sure. At any rate, this is not what I want them to look like together.

[CabotCove]

Here's my final say. Hating a character is fine. I have characters I hate so I get that. What I don't get is hating Ray for doing a, b, and c when other characters have also done a, b, and c and don't get hate for it. I also don't understand disliking something Felicity does with Ray, but knowing that there has been headcanons and fic written about Felicity doing the exact same thing with Oliver (now I don't necessarily like those headcanons/fics but they are out there written by the same people who dislike it when Felicity does the same things with Ray).

Bingo. I personally dont care about what in happens headcanons/fanfics, but what happens in show. And I have seen paralleling/similar behaviour and actions between these characters, the end result, some tend to get more backlash than others. Which for the most part I dont care about and for...meaning I dont care that it happens, I just dont care to hear it a million times.

Edited April 11, 2015 by Conell

[steeledwithakiss]

Here's my final say. Hating a character is fine. I have characters I hate so I get that. What I don't get is hating Ray for doing a, b, and c when other characters have also done a, b, and c and don't get hate for it. I also don't understand disliking something Felicity does with Ray, but knowing that there has been headcanons and fic written about Felicity doing the exact same thing with Oliver (now I don't necessarily like those headcanons/fics but they are out there written by the same people who dislike it when Felicity does the same things with Ray). 

 

And IMO, it's difficult to say that the hate for Ray started before he became a love interest for Felicity so it's not about him being an obstacle, because Ray was introduced before the season even started as a love interest for Felicity. And I have seen people say (on other boards, no here) that they can't forgive Ray even though the writing wasn't so stellar for him, but they are willing to forgive the less than great writing if it means Oliver and Felicity get together. 

 

I said before i used a blanket statement in one of my earlier posts, and I later apologized for that. I didn't mean to lump the entire fandom together. 

I don't think it's relevant nor fair when no one (that I know of) on this forum has written ff or stated their headcanons for O/F talking about their sex life in front of their co workers then went on criticizing here the same thing about R/F.

[dtissagirl]

All of my Palmer hatred it due to the Crazy Eyes. I'm forever afraid Brandon Routh is gonna come out of the television, kill me dead and eat my brains, cos I'm pretty sure he eats butter and brains to POWER THE CRAZY EYES. So I'm entirely comfortable with my Palmer hate having nothing to do with Felicity. Or Oliver. Or Arrow, even. It's the Crazy Eyes.

 

Psycho killer. Qu'est-ce que c'est? Fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa far better. Run run run run run run run away.

 

But going back to spoilers.

 

I'm intrigued by the idea of brainwashing. There are Chekhov's Mind Control Drugs in place after all. And the 3 week time jump is kind of telling that whatever "transformation" Oliver goes through, is not gonna give us a kinder gentler Oliver. However, if there's brainwashing, put me in the column of hoping it all turns out to be a GOTCHA! Like, maybe Oliver keeps partaking of his magical island herbs that make him impervious to brainwashing -- and it's all a plan to take Ra's down. Possibly in cahoots with Nyssa. Yeah.

Edited April 11, 2015 by dancingnancy

[blixie]

 

repetitively

 

Pretty sure this is the issue, as Keith Cuda from Drunk Asshole Island said so well, "you don't need to tell me five times." 

 

Oliver and Felicity have done some shady creepy shit, but it's fine because they are my main characters and I make allowances for them I'm not about to for a glorified guest star getting his own spin off. I also think the scene on the Flash is pretty terrible and is more consistent w/S1 Felicity, and is odd and weird in the timeline of the story they seem to be telling where literally two episodes later she's fucking Oliver. BUT, so too was Oliver saying GO GET HER Tommy and then banging the hell out of Laurel in the very same episode, like it is completely consistent with the craphole writing I expect out of these dudes especially re: romantic arcs. Oh except I guess they learned you should wait two episodes to turn your character on a dime.

 

So yeah there IS a double standard in the sense of I give a shit about Oliver and Felicity and I give far less of shit about Ray, and that is entirely on the writing, because I like Brandon Routh, and I more or less liked Ray but had to "like" him in spite of the creepy way they made him act, and all the ways they've damaged Felicity to sell that relationship. I don't feel the tiniest bit bad about judging Ray differently than how I judge Oliver even if they had done exactly the same things in exactly the same ways.

Edited April 11, 2015 by blixie

[steeledwithakiss]

There are 2 possibilities really, one he's been brainwashed/just decided to give up and follow orders because he can't see a way out of the LAO gig or he's faking it. Whatever it is I think it's safe to say he snaps out of it by the end of the episode (or maybe the next depending on if MG knew The Flash would never catch up when he wrote 3x21/22 so puting 1x22 after 3x22).

 

I can take 2 episodes of Evil!Oliver, whether it's fake or no, because on another show it could have gone for like half a season. That's actually what I thought would happen when spoilers about Ra's wanting him for the league started. I thought we'd get Oliver in the league at the end of the season and then next season (up until mid season finale) his team would try to get him back. I thought also the end of this season would be very dark. SInce s1 ended very badly, then s2 (even though Moira died in 2x20 and Thea left with Malcolm) ended on a much more positive note. It seems this year they plan of ending all of the storylines happily and the only cliffhanger would be a glimpse of s4 bad guy.

 

The only thing I'm not sure of is Roy. Is CH still not back in Vancouver?

Edited April 11, 2015 by steeledwithakiss

[blixie]

The last I heard CH was in Florida (still not shooting), so I'm still sticking with he is dead (or at least might as well be since he's not in the main narrative), because I'd rather prepare for the worst and merely hope for the best. I have to say I'm not keen on the marriage being Thea/Roy because LORD that is a bad idea, and I was liking him with Laurel. I KNOW, whatever.

[Morrigan2575]

here are 2 possibilities really, one he's been brainwashed/just decided to give up and follow orders because he can't see a way out of the LAO gig or he's faking it. Whatever it is I think it's safe to say he snaps out of it by the end of the episode (or maybe the next depending on if MG knew The Flash would never catch up when he wrote 3x21/22 so puting 1x22 after 3x22).

oh lord if Oliver just gives up and goes along with Ras this really is a repeat of S2. this show is way to young to be this repetitive.

I can see faking it and I can see brainwashing, if Oliver just gives in and willingly becomes Al-Saheem, there's no help for this show.

Edited April 11, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[steeledwithakiss]

The thing is it is Oliver's MO, IMO. His first instinct is to give up, then he gets back on his feet after a pep talk usually. I haven't seen him change that certain aspect of his personality. Of course I'd love it if he could, but Oliver is still a very pessimistic guy.

[nksarmi]

The last I heard CH was in Florida (still not shooting), so I'm still sticking with he is dead (or at least might as well be since he's not in the main narrative), because I'd rather prepare for the worst and merely hope for the best. I have to say I'm not keen on the marriage being Thea/Roy because LORD that is a bad idea, and I was liking him with Laurel. I KNOW, whatever.

Someone posted that he had been seen in Vancouver in the jail jumpsuit several pages back.  That could be evidence he is alive or it could have been reshoots.  I refuse to believe Oliver is so positive in the sexytime scene with Felicity if Roy is dead.  He's all like "All my life has led to this moment, blah blah blah."  I'm not even sure I can believe he would be like that if Thea died and was getting tossed in the LP.  

 

For me, anyone dying and getting resurrected or not should put a huge dint in Oliver willingly accepting this as his destiny.  And if Roy dies and Oliver doesn't hugely flip out - I might have a hard time staying with the show.  It would be hard enough for me to accept Roy's death if I had to, but any happy moments - let alone a wedding following that better be addressed by a huge time jump or something.

[Guest]

I really hope Roy doesn't die. I'm actually quite interested in the developing idea that he doesn't think he's worthy of forgiveness after killing that cop in s2. He's been trying to redeem himself in quiet ways (buying things for the cop's family etc and now outing himself as the Arrow) but I think he deserves more than sacrifice and death being the end of his arc.

[AyChihuahua]

 

But that's the point!!

I don't care what the thematic purpose of their relationship is.  I don't buy it in any way as an actual relationship, in fact I find it entirely devaluing to Felicity, so the only thing I see coming out of it is that either Felicity is massively inappropriate ("Ooh, my boyfriend gets it up hard and gives it to me good, woohoo!" is a DISGUSTING thing to say to colleagues), which she hasn't been for more than a year and was NEVER that inappropriate, or she's just pathetic and desperate now.  

 

I still don't think those mind control drugs would work.  Ra's wants an heir and he can't keep Oliver drugged for the next 40 years.  Those drugs turn people into puppets, not Heirs.  I'm sure that there will be some indoctrination, which on normal people would work as brainwashing.  I just don't see how, after everything he's been through, Oliver will be susceptible to that.

 

So really people, chill.

Also, it's making reading this forum very unfun from all the bitterness- understandable bitterness but... we're 5 episodes away from the finale let's try and enjoy it, Ray is going away in 5 episodes, sadly buckle is not- if there is anything we should be bitter about it's that.

Please don't tell me or anyone else how to feel or react.  There is a report button and an ignore button for a reason.  

 

 

I have characters I hate so I get that. What I don't get is hating Ray for doing a, b, and c when other characters have also done a, b, and c and don't get hate for it.

I debunked this yesterday.  Going to Felicity's car to avoid bleeding to death is not the same as stopping by to discuss a project.  The "stay away from me" thing is them both saying it, and nobody says it's bad when Ray says that to save her life but good when Oliver does.  That is absurd.  Your third example did not come from the show, as there is nothing whatsoever evidencing Oliver having bought her that dress.    

Edited April 11, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[Ariah]

...I'm still waiting for the Alpha / Omega to make a return...

 

OK then...

[looptab]

Honestly I don't know either how I'd feel with them hooking up while Thea is waiting to be resurrected. But that is how it's going to go, isn'it?

[steeledwithakiss]

I think they'll hook up the night before he becomes Al Sahim, but after Thea is resurrected. He wouldn't become officially, through a creremony I guess, the heir until Thea was resurrected.

Edited April 11, 2015 by steeledwithakiss

[looptab]

That's ten thousand times better :)

[ostentatious]

The last I heard CH was in Florida (still not shooting), so I'm still sticking with he is dead (or at least might as well be since he's not in the main narrative), because I'd rather prepare for the worst and merely hope for the best. I have to say I'm not keen on the marriage being Thea/Roy because LORD that is a bad idea, and I was liking him with Laurel. I KNOW, whatever.

If they had the fortitude to play up the older professional woman/boy toy who works in a bar vibe, but they don't, because comics.

But I do have to say that Roy is grumpy and irritable enough to do things like deliberately drink her OJ right out of the container just to piss her off and that is what I'm looking for in a Laurel LI.

...I'm still waiting for the Alpha / Omega to make a return...

OK then...

Imma say this: if these writers have failed to notice that this season they have introduced FOUR viruses (I count alpha and omega as two, then there's Felicity's MIT virus, and OMACs in the comics are humans transformed by a nanovirus) and thus further fail to CONNECT THESE VIRUSES...I swear...such slop and mess...watch your own show people, watch your own show. Edited April 11, 2015 by ostentatious

[kismet]

Yeah The Flash tends to be over the top, Im not sure its AK or just the nature of the Flash show. Felicity just seems extra "high" whenever she is in this show to me.

 

She only bragged to Barry about that, Ok Ok fair enough she was talking about something else. But these writers mentality if clear to me, I honestly dont think she will be talking/acting much differently with Oliver. In the end its really the same writers talking, somewhat, Imo.

Despite my inner cringing at having to watch those scenes again, I think I will have to watch F118 to see how the rest of the episode plays out.

 

But I think you might have highlighted something that others have stated or implied. The tone of the Flash is different. I think the innuendos & double entendres work better on the Arrow than on the Flash for 2 reasons. One reason being they usually have FS acknowledge it and backtrack, so we forgive her for her verbal diarrhea because it is adorkable & we know that its not meant to be overtly funny. I laugh with her, not at her. Its like inside jokes between friends and family. RP is not family yet, and like I said in another post he wants us to laugh with his jokes and that applies a whole other feel to his humor.

 

The primary reason they work better is that they put them in the script and the audience gets the joke or they don't. It's like watching Disney or other animated kids movies. There is stuff in the script that parents get and kids miss. The Flash tends to want you to respond to the clever joke they made, so they go through the effort of explaining to us. Its like their own version of a laugh track. This just ups the weirdness & awkwardness of the scene. This spoiler clip was the perfect example of if FS had not explained what Ray meant, I might have laughed. Instead I was facepalming because their explanation was acknowledging the innuendo. And that just takes the humor right out of the joke. 

 

The penetration line in Arrow was the perfect example of something the audience could laugh at because most of us got the joke. But the Arrow writers were smart enough to not have Barry or Felicity acknowledge that penetration can be a dirty word. Funny story, I was watching the College Basketball tourney last weekend and they liked to say penetration a lot. Its a good technical term for basketball. During the finals my friend made some off color joke after they said it once and it completely changed so much of the color commentary. Humor, esp dirty humor is generally funnier when it is not so over the top. When it feels a little secret and dirty. That's what makes it fun. There really is a sophistication to innuendos & double entendres when done successfully. 

 

I also think BR is funnier when he is more subtle than in your face, and it feels like they've written him very loud & in your face in A/F, so I hope whoever is the head writer for Spin-off finds a way to harness his funny. Because he can be funny & serious too. Perhaps he didn't need as much propping as they seemed to want to give him in Arrow. I think if he would have been allowed to interact with other people on Arrow sooner, the reaction to him would have been more positive. That high 5 he tries to give OQ in the sizzler reel is priceless. I wish we had seen more of that and less of what we got.

Edited April 11, 2015 by kismet

[tv echo]

Back to wedding spec - here's a possible scenario for a wedding between Sara and Nyssa: 

 

• Sara returns from the dead somehow, and she and Nyssa get married. 
• Nyssa is murdered in 3x23, setting up Sara's character for the spin-off. 
• In some Asian cultures, white is considered to be a color that represents death, and mourners at a funeral will wear white clothes. 
• So... White Canary?

 

P.S.  I don't think MG said that a marriage follows the wedding.  IIRC, he said that it was a wedding and a marriage.  Slight difference.  I took that to mean it wasn't just an empty wedding ceremony, but one that was intended to result in a real marriage.  But no clue as to how long the marriage would last.

 

P. P.S.  Even if the CW went away, I'm sure some other network would snap up Arrow, The Flash and the Spin-off.

[kismet]

With the releases of the new set? Do we think it is the new HIVE headquarters? I imagine HIVE being big enough to warrant its own set. I can't imagine that they would build a new set just for some scenes in the finale. I feel like $$ is tight, so they have to budget accordingly. Plus the architecture of the set feels very sterile & high tech like I would imagine a nefarious group like HIVE would have.

[Starfish35]

I don't think it's HIVE, because didn't MG say that it was just for the finale, and not for season 4? I mean, yes, I know, budget, but I could have sworn that's what he said.

ETA: Yes, from the Spoilers thread:

Asked if the new mystery set is going to stay for S4 or if it's just for the S3 finale, MG says: "It's just for the finale."

Edited April 11, 2015 by Starfish35

[kismet]

I don't think it's HIVE, because didn't MG say that it was just for the finale, and not for season 4? I mean, yes, I know, budget, but I could have sworn that's what he said.

ETA: Yes, from the Spoilers thread:

 

Oh my bad... SORRY!  Oh well at least we get a cool set... and who knows if & what they'll break it down & reuse it for on any of the 3 shows.

Edited April 11, 2015 by kismet

[ostentatious]

Well based upon this season I think we can safely say it's Wayne Manor or the Batcave.

[SleepDeprived]

Maybe the reason the mystery building is not going to stay for Arrow S4 and will just be for the S3 finale is because it'll be primarily used by the Spin-Off. Something about it is just giving me a Hall of Justice vibe, which is one of the headquarters of the Justice League.

 

Either that or the mystery building will end up being the setting for/pivotal to the second wedding on Arrow that MG keeps teasing everyone about.

[statsgirl]

Maybe I'm crazy but I'm kind of looking forward to 118 because it just look so awful in a Springtime For Hitler kind of way. 

 

From the sneak peek, it looked like Felicity took Barry out for coffee because she noticed he was upset.  Fingers crossed for that conversation, although I hope he doesn't tell her about Wells because #NotAPokerFace.

 

This may be seen as nitpicking about Ray, but isn't part of the A.T.O.M Design from the Specs on the QC Server and Felicity's smarts with the processor and some of her other software that she developed? I'm sure Ray put a lot into the suit, but this extended propping is making me roll my eyes so hard.

Good point.  She's still on Ray propping duty, but if they wanted Ray to be a good guy, he should have told Team Flash that the suit flies thanks to Felicity.

 

That's really what I disliked most about the clip, that Ray didn't acknowledge all the works that Felicity did.  It makes him look like a jerk.  (In contrast, Oliver tends to give her credit.)

 

Even on her worst socially inappropriate day, FS never acts like a schoolgirl. She might say something inappropriate, but she picks up on it and generally backtracks. Ray just owns his inappropriateness, likes its our problem not his. That type of personality just irritates me.

I think it's also a case of what works once, doesn't work a second time.  Felicity worked with inadvertent sexual innuendos because she's a tech geek, doesn't socialize much and we knew she has a good heart.  I don't know if it could have worked a second time even with someone like Felicity but Ray is older, more socially aware and the billionaire head of his own company so he must have had much more social interactions than Felicity has had. Also, he 's a man, and sexual innuendos sound much worse coming out of a man's mouth than a woman's. That's just the way the world works.

 

And honestly how is  she acting much differently than when she brought Oliver to the Flash???. Wasnt she "cheerleading" him to The Flash team?, she was all over him that she might  as have been glued in his literal arms, and they were supposed to be broken up. I know its not just my take because  "they are married" was echoed all over the internet after Flash's 1.08.

Actually, she was denying that Oliver was the Arrow to the Flash team, and then Wells figured it out.

 

The "#married" comments from the crossover episode were not because Felicity was hanging on to Oliver's arm like she is Ray's, or telling everyone how wonderful he is, but because she asked him to do something (help Barry) and he did it for her because he cares for her.  In this clip, she's all "Ray is so wonderful and so great in bed so of course you're going to help him."  And to reprise, a lot of that suit was Felicity's doing, not Ray's.

[icandigit]

 

But I think you might have highlighted something that others have stated or implied. The tone of the Flash is different.

I guess that explains why I love Oliver on the Flash and prefer Arrow's version of Barry.

[Starfish35]

I thought there was a clip somewhere implying heavily that Barry does tell Felicity about the Wells situation, because she asks him something like "you think they're (I assumed this meant Cisco and Caitlin) working with him?"

[kismet]

I guess that explains why I love Oliver on the Flash and prefer Arrow's version of Barry.

Yes! YES! I thought I was the only one. I love both versions of Oliver. But Arrow's version of Barry is usually so much better than the Flash's. In my head, I generally tend to justify some of the Flash's Barry as just poor writing. GG, JLM & TC bring a lot to their roles that overcome some of the script deficits. Also I try to look past the tone and try not to feel too old watching a show that seems geared to a younger audience. It is why I follow the show, but can go weeks without it and just catch up when I can. The only time I find that they consistently write genuine good scenes for Barry is when he is interacting with Joe & his Dad. And even the Joe scenes have started to falter as of late. The new stuff with Wells in intriguing though and I was thoroughly impressed with the last episode of Flash. That Trickster episode was awesome, and had phenomenal guest star & plot twists.

I guess that explains why I love Oliver on the Flash and prefer Arrow's version of Barry.

Yes! YES! I thought I was the only one. I love both versions of Oliver. But Arrow's version of Barry is usually so much better than the Flash's. In my head, I generally tend to justify some of the Flash's Barry as just poor writing. GG, JLM & TC bring a lot to their roles that overcome some of the script deficits. Also I try to look past the tone and try not to feel too old watching a show that seems geared to a younger audience. It is why I follow the show, but can go weeks without it and just catch up when I can. The only time I find that they consistently write genuine good scenes for Barry is when he is interacting with Joe & his Dad. And even the Joe scenes have started to falter as of late. The new stuff with Wells in intriguing though and I was thoroughly impressed with the last episode of Flash. That Trickster episode was awesome, and had phenomenal guest star & plot twists.

[calliope1975]

I'll own my hypocrisy with being fine with Oliver and not with Ray potentially doing the same actions. My loyalties lie with Oliver. I've watched him for 2 years get beat down repeatedly to become the man he is today. I've seen the literal hell he went through on the island and in Hong Kong. I can assume Russia was no picnic for him either. Palmer comes in day one with Crazy Eyes, and I'm supposed to give him the same benefit of the doubt and welcome him because he's Oliver-lite? No. I'm supposed to cheer for him to take QC and date Felicity and make his rip off Iron Man suit while Oliver continues to be stripped of everything? No. 

 

I've seen various scenarios where he could have worked; I've come up with my own ideas on how he could have worked. But he didn't - not for me. I am so envious of people who love this season because that's how I felt last year (for most of it.) But I refuse to discount very real problems I have with a character - be it Ray Palmer or Laurel Lance - because I'm a shipper. Or I must hate women. Or whatever reason is used to justify discounting my opinion. 

 

If they are going to continue to have crossovers, and by all accounts they are including with the new show if it's picked up, TPTB have to be better with characterization and scheduling. That's imperative to me. I don't want to see a different Felicity on The Flash. They also need to decide if one has to watch both (or all 3) shows for everything to make sense. They originally said no, but they then continue to put major characterizations on the other shows. 

 

In short, TIIC need to get their shit together.

Edited April 11, 2015 by calliope1975

[Starfish35]

Since the subject of whitewashing has been brought up in the spinoff thread, what do you all think of this response from MG's tumblr (already posted in the Spoilers thread).

wallyallenwest asked:

Thanks for being so cool and not condescending with fans, it means a lot! and I hope you're feeling better :) now please, if you do Connor Hawke at any point during the future, cast a racially correct or at least POC actor in the role. please. representation is important & Connor's heritage is so interesting in the comics, especially in the GL/GA 'hate crimes' series & his grandfather. pretty please.

Absolutely.

Does that mean that the woman we've been assuming to be Sandra Hawke is actually not?

[AyChihuahua]

Lordy, how many baby mamas does Oliver have floating around out there?!?

 

I think he's probably just trying to placate the questioner.

 

ETA:  They might be able to get away with her being part Native American.  Sometimes genetic backgrounds come up more strongly every once in awhile, so maybe they could cast a Native American kid. 

Edited April 11, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[apinknightmare]

Does that mean that the woman we've been assuming to be Sandra Hawke is actually not?

 

I always hoped the reason they didn't give baby mama a name was because she's not really important to the story - meaning she was pregnant with Oliver's baby, and she did actually lose it, but she took Moira's money anyway. I hoped that the kid she called in the cafe was hers with someone else. I wanted them to throw a true curveball and have Sandra come in later (maybe someone Oliver knew in high school, someone he never knew he got pregnant) and his son is older than 7 or so. 

 

I know it's too much to hope for, haha. Baby Mama in CC gives him good reason to pop in on The Flash from time to time.

Edited April 11, 2015 by apinknightmare

[kismet]

Frankly, I don't remember much about the girl that was cast as the Baby Mama besides the fact that she was a brunette. But if they wanted to pay homage to the comics, they could easily make her Native American when they actually incorporate her character into the show. There are many different type of Native American ethnicities, so she may just need some exposition on her character & backstory in the script to explain that part of her heritage. That being said, I have met many people of Native American descent, whom if they had not told me, I would never had known that was part of their ethnic background from their appearance. On a personal level, I often get misidentified as a completely different ethnic group from my actual ethnic heritage. So its not as easy to tell someone's ethnicity just by their appearance.

Edited April 11, 2015 by kismet

[Velocity23]

Fuck me .... David knows who Felicity father is.

[Genki]

The Tweets form David Ramsey's Panel is giving me a bad feeling about what Al Sahiem may do to Diggle that changes their relationship dynamic. I was being optimistic and thinking that Diggle could become Oliver's boss, but now a little worried that the thing that personally affects Diggle and Lyla will be cause by Oliver.

 

Also the Felicity Dad teaser...argh!!!

Edited April 11, 2015 by Genki

[AyChihuahua]

Brainiac!

 

 

The Tweets form David Ramsey's Panel is giving me a bad feeling about what Al Sahiem may do to Diggle that changes their relationship dynamic. I was being optimistic and thinking that Diggle could become Oliver's boss, but not a little worried that the thing that personally affects Diggle and Kyla will be cause by Oliver.

He'll probably threaten Lyla and Sara.  No way will he actually harm them.  But Diggle has been way less affected by all the RAG stuff than the rest of TA, so it's his turn, and even if it's a ploy on Oliver's part, Diggle would be furious.

 

Actually, some context would help.  The quote is: "By the time we're done with Ra's al Ghul and season three there's almost... irreparable damage..."

 

Was that in response to a question about their relationship, or the situation in general?  I mean, there is pretty much almost irreparable damage to TA's ability to do their jobs already.  I still can't figure out how they're going to repair that.  

Edited April 11, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[apinknightmare]

The Tweets form David Ramsey's Panel is giving me a bad feeling about what Al Sahiem may do to Diggle that changes their relationship dynamic. I was being optimistic and thinking that Diggle could become Oliver's boss, but now a little worried that the thing that personally affects Diggle and Lyla will be cause by Oliver.

 

Also the Felicity Dad teaser...argh!!!

 

I thought the Ra's thing that affected Diggle and Lyla was the fact that the Evil!Arrow murders broke up their wedding reception, I didn't even consider another possibility, haha.

[catrox14]

David is a little shit. LOL.  However if this is true does that mean the show will get JAMES MARSTERS?  Because holy shit, yes. Please

[dtissagirl]

Brainiac's Daughter is an Andy Partridge song.

http://xtc.wikia.com/wiki/Brainiac%27s_Daughter

And then DC made her an actual comic book character as a bit of an in-joke:

http://www.comicvine.com/brainiacs-daughter/4005-57845/

[catrox14]

Nevermind. I can't read.

Edited April 11, 2015 by catrox14

[Chaser]

I need to know why he knows that, is it because Felicitys father has a big arc in S4 so he is part of the discussion now? Do we get a reference in the finale? Details please?!

This season has very much been Diggle/Oliver and then Felicity. I really hope that doesn't flip next season. I need the whole again.

Edited April 11, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[AyChihuahua]

 

I thought the Ra's thing that affected Diggle and Lyla was the fact that the Evil!Arrow murders broke up their wedding reception, I didn't even consider another possibility, haha.

There has to be more to it than that.  Roy's in prison, Felicity was nearly murdered, Thea's going to be murdered, but Diggle gets an early end to his wedding reception?  Not even the wedding, just the reception?  There has to be more of an effect on him.  I can see Oliver telling Diggle to back off before Lyla gets hurt or some such.

[apinknightmare]

There has to be more to it than that.  Roy's in prison, Felicity was nearly murdered, Thea's going to be murdered, but Diggle gets an early end to his wedding reception?  Not even the wedding, just the reception?  There has to be more of an effect on him.  I can see Oliver telling Diggle to back off before Lyla gets hurt or some such.

 

Yeah, I know. I was just saying, that's all I considered it to be with regards to Diggle and Lyla. Literally never even thought about it being more than that. I thought whatever came between Diggle and Oliver was going to be about just Diggle and Oliver, not Lyla.

Edited April 11, 2015 by apinknightmare

[AyChihuahua]

Maybe Ra's just likes Diggle better.

 

Without context, I'm not panicking.  Things are already almost irreparable.  It could be (1) things are nearly irreparable because of all the Ra's stuff (already true); and separately (2) Diggle's and Oliver's relationship changes in a big way.

Edited April 11, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[kismet]

I can't remember now, but was there an confirmation or solid rumours that we were going to get to see Felicity's Dad this season? Because if the speculation is true that its an O/F wedding, I could see it as a perfect opportunity for FS's dad to crash the wedding and say something along the lines of What you didn't want you're father to walk you down the aisle? Cut end scene, maybe end season. It would be that classic cliffhanger of Dad? Mom? that works so wonderful on TV shows.

 

But yeah, the other stuff that is coming out from the DR megacon is making me very scared for Diggle & Lyla. Would be interesting if we knew if the actress who play Lyla has been booked for any of the last 5 episodes. Irreparable damage between O/D sounds like it might be a rough going for the beginning of s4 (pray it ain't so).

[AyChihuahua]

But, Oliver has reason to smile in S4.  If he was drugged or seriously brainwashed (c/o Morrigan, I still haven't forgiven him) and murdered Lyla or some such horribleness, Oliver would never smile again.  He would never forgive himself for something like that.  

[wonderwall]

Are we actually getting a multiple episode Felicity arc that's actually about Felicity????

 

 

 

God bless

[manbearpig]

Watch them make Felicity's dad a part of next season's flashbacks and have it be about Oliver. I don't want that to happen, but I'll keep my expectations low anyway.

[kismet]

Could Oliver be the person behind HIVE's hit on Diggle's brother??  I know it was Deadshot that shot him. But someone had to originate hiring HIVE to put the hit out. If it is part of Oliver working for Bratva, Argus or Shrieve, that would be pretty awful and irreparable for a long while if ever. Ras seems to be very gossipy, so maybe he tells Diggle what he found out. But if this is the case, why would they use that in s3 and not s4? Then again why not use it now, and then you can use s4 to repair it or get the real truth.