Spoiler Discussion Thread

[ban1o]

Some funny and off the wall guesses as to what the big gamechanger will be

Colton Haynes says that Arrow is about the change forever

lmao those last 4 guesses are funny

Edited February 14, 2015 by ban1o

[jay741982]

Are they not watching lol 1 already happened. 2 would suck and be potentially show killing at least for me and 3 would be too sad:( the last 4 are funny

Also, I think the ratings will eventually catch up with them if they mess too much with the dynamic that made the show. The ratings for these past 4 episodes are not indicative if people like the direction of the show because people are still waiting around to see if it changes. There were many reasons to turn into these previous EPs that had nothing to do with laurel or ray. They'd have to look at ratings in comparison to other seasons. This show never really had a sophomore slump, so I wonder if some of these growing pains are part of a s3 funk phenomenon/ hangover. They had a five year plan for Oliver, so I get his slow development. But the rush on LL & RP, I have no idea how they were factored into the plan? I will say that of they kill/marginalize diggle &/or felicity in s3 or s4, I'm out. I left grey's when they killed a character & completely changed another. I don't regret leaving that show. I can't get invested in new characters when u blatantly threw away characters I liked with little care or respect. Find a way to make them all work or find a new audience.

I'm pissed about Sara and difently would stop watching if Dig and/Or Felicity were killed off and leave the show

[BkWurm1]

Thought, what if when Ray Palmer shows up with the Atom suite he also goes public?  This is their Iron Man lite and 3.15 says the contrasts between Oliver and Ray become pretty obvious.  What if the city of Starling City toss poor Oliver aside in favor of the new above board, perhaps officially sanctioned "hero" and that is why we see the team being chased by the police, them putting a kibosh on the unsanctioned vigilantes, thinking they don't need them anymore. 

 

It's probably way off base but maybe some variation further into the season. 

[wonderwall]

Thought, what if when Ray Palmer shows up with the Atom suite he also goes public?  This is their Iron Man lite and 3.15 says the contrasts between Oliver and Ray become pretty obvious.  What if the city of Starling City toss poor Oliver aside in favor of the new above board, perhaps officially sanctioned "hero" and that is why we see the team being chased by the police, them putting a kibosh on the unsanctioned vigilantes, thinking they don't need them anymore. 

 

It's probably way off base but maybe some variation further into the season. 

I think that would be REALLY interesting actually. I'm tired of Ray only having scenes with Felicity. It makes him less than a character imo. So if we have to deal with him in season 4, then they have to make him into a full on character instead of this flat character. 

 

I just literally spouted BS. I apologize :p This is what happens when I get no sleep. 

Edited February 14, 2015 by wonderwall

[Password]

Thought, what if when Ray Palmer shows up with the Atom suite he also goes public? This is their Iron Man lite and 3.15 says the contrasts between Oliver and Ray become pretty obvious. What if the city of Starling City toss poor Oliver aside in favor of the new above board, perhaps officially sanctioned "hero" and that is why we see the team being chased by the police, them putting a kibosh on the unsanctioned vigilantes, thinking they don't need them anymore.

It's probably way off base but maybe some variation further into the season.

It's pretty much what I expect. Ray really is Iron Man 2.0 so I fully expect him to go public.

[BkWurm1]

Better Ray than Oliver. 

 

I still fume over Smallville having Oliver go public.  Dumbest plot line ever, especially since his reasons and motivations were a complete misread of why Chloe left.  I always picture her coming back and whacking him upside the head, and asking what were you thinking??

[SleepDeprived]

Thought, what if when Ray Palmer shows up with the Atom suite he also goes public?  This is their Iron Man lite and 3.15 says the contrasts between Oliver and Ray become pretty obvious.  What if the city of Starling City toss poor Oliver aside in favor of the new above board, perhaps officially sanctioned "hero" and that is why we see the team being chased by the police, them putting a kibosh on the unsanctioned vigilantes, thinking they don't need them anymore. 

 

It's probably way off base but maybe some variation further into the season. 

 

Heh. This sounds somewhat similar to the Civil War storyline of Marvel, though, with registered/sanctioned by the government superheroes vs. unregistered/vigilante superheroes. I don't think the show has enough episodes left (or innovative talent in the writer's room) to tackle that kind of storyline if they really want to do it properly, especially since Sara's death/Ra's/LoA/Merlyn/Thea being a killer/Oliver's identity crisis/faux-Justice League origins and the fallout from everything related to all the plot threads in the air still need to be addressed. However, knowing our wonderfully *creative* showrunner, he just might try to water down that kind of storyline into one or two episodes before Marvel releases CA3 next year.

 

If they do try to do this with Atom as Iron Man (pro-registration) and Arrow as Captain America (against registration) then it would be better for sometime in the fourth season since this season is already a clusterfuck of mish-mash plots.

Edited February 14, 2015 by SleepDeprived

[AnalyzeAndCritique]

Which is why a thousand other shows have used that trope before. And usually it's accompanied by making the guy look even better by stomping down the hero even more. Looks like that's right in the wheelhouse of these writers. And honestly, doesn't it get to the point where the audience says, 'why would she want this sadsack who just gets served shit and does nothing about it?'

I don't find anything romantic about having to choose between two people, personally. So what if someone else wanted you, know what you want and go and get it. If you're just going to dither long enough that both guys have a real shot, then you just end up looking bad, whatever you do.

This! Also time is a precious commodity. I don't have the patience to wait five years for the "slow burn." Find the balance between falling into bed ten seconds after you meet and years later getting together and regretting the time you missed.

Many have said Oliver wasn't ready for a relationship. In the real world maybe that was true, in the world of Arrow I would argue it wasn't true. A deepening relationship with Felicity might have healed some of those broken pieces. Instead because these writers are as creative as a paint by numbers kit, he has more broken pieces and apparently Felicity's gonna stomp on his heart.

Edited February 14, 2015 by AnalyzeAndCritique

[jay741982]

This! Also time is a precious commodity. I don't have the patience to wait five years for the "slow burn." Find the balance between falling into bed ten seconds after you meet and years later getting together and regretting the time you missed.

Many have said Oliver wasn't ready for a relationship. In the real world maybe that was true, in the world of Arrow I would argue it wasn't true. A deepening relationship with Felicity might have healed some of those broken pieces. Instead because these writers are as creative as a paint by numbers kit, he has more broken pieces and apparently Felicity's gonna stomp on his heart.

To be fair he has stomped on her heart already more than once.

[kismet]

To be fair he has stomped on her heart already more than once.

Tbh- felicity is pushing him away as much as he is pushing away her, likely do to her fear of abandonment & insecurities. I would have thought coming back from the dead would have changed her to, might have actually got her to admit she cares about him in plainspeak to his face. He couldn't undue his alliance with mm, but if he knew felicity was reciprocal in a similar level of love, he might find a way to make it all work out. He needs confirmation from felicity that she's willing to fight for him romantically speaking. So far every time he's pushed she's walked away. Its just too easy for them to give into their fears & not try to make it work between them. Its realistic to life, but frustrating the same. I consider it a mutual heart stomp party that will likely not get resolved until sweeps. They really could be the 2 people best suited to help the other one heal.

[jay741982]

Tbh- felicity is pushing him away as much as he is pushing away her, likely do to her fear of abandonment & insecurities. I would have thought coming back from the dead would have changed her to, might have actually got her to admit she cares about him in plainspeak to his face. He couldn't undue his alliance with mm, but if he knew felicity was reciprocal in a similar level of love, he might find a way to make it all work out. He needs confirmation from felicity that she's willing to fight for him romantically speaking. So far every time he's pushed she's walked away. Its just too easy for them to give into their fears & not try to make it work between them. Its realistic to life, but frustrating the same. I consider it a mutual heart stomp party that will likely not get resolved until sweeps. They really could be the 2 people best suited to help the other one heal.

I agree Kismet, see the kind of heartbreaking thing is I think Felicity was gonna tell him but he brought up working with Malcolm. If he had came back ready to be with her telling her how he wants to live, defeat Ra's to protect his sister and have a future with her, how kissing her was the last thing on his mind before he "Died" Felicity would've said she loved him. Instead viewers get this angst and you are right it probably won't be until like the last 3 episodes that we get this info dump from Oliver GRR. It has been a mutual heart stomping on both parts

[tv echo]

If I put on my rose-colored glasses, the reason Oliver is making bone-headed decisions and Felicity is acting out of character is because they're out of sync with each other and have been since the end of "The Calm".  When they were gelling with each other - even just as friends - things were harmonious, Oliver was becoming a better person, Felicity was getting stronger, they were happy, etc.  This would've continued if they had smoothly segued into a romantic relationship.  But then Oliver put the brakes on where they were naturally heading, which threw them out of sync.  The only way to get the 'better' Oliver and 'in character' Felicity back is to put their relationship back on track.  I guess what I'm saying is that they have developed this deep connection that unconsciously causes them to influence each other - when things are good between them, each of them is better individually; but when things are bad between them, each of them is worse as individuals.

 

If I take off my rose-colored glasses, the EPs are trying to turn most fans against 'Olicity' by making their relationship as toxic as the Oliver & Laurel one in season 1, and also increase Laurel's popularity as the new BC, thereby paving the way for a future 'Lauriver' relationship.

Edited February 14, 2015 by tv echo

[Jillibean]

 

If I take off my rose-colored glasses, the EPs are trying to turn most fans against 'Olicity' by making their relationship as toxic as the Oliver & Laurel one in season 1, and also increase Laurel's popularity as the new BC, thereby paving the way for a future 'Lauriver' relationship.

 

I've been lurking for awhile, and thought I'd jump in just to add some fresh perspective. I really don't think anyone is purposely trying to tank Oliver and Felicity. I think the producers and the network knows exactly how popular they are, and they're attempting to use it as a tool to create drama and ratings, as is done with most popular pairings. The way they're doing it has become increasingly frustrating to a lot of people, because it's not particularly organic, creative, or well written, but I think those are faults on the part of the writers and producers and not purposeful attempts to harm the viability of the pairing. Plenty of other things that the writers are clearly not interested in tanking are being written in similarly bewildering ways. I still believe this season is their (perhaps misguided) way of trying to set up Oliver and Felicity as a couple that will eventually come together after a long period of ups and downs. We all knew there was no way it was going to just happen, that it was going to be drawn out with steps forward and backward and misunderstandings and messes, because that's just Television 101. Again, it hasn't been done well, but I don't think the arguably mediocre quality signifies a change in intention. After all, we keep coming back to Oliver and Felicity and their feelings and the "obstacles" between them every couple of episodes, and that wouldn't be happening if the story were not ultimately theirs. We all guessed from the beginning that Ray was going to be a love interest trope--a temporary, but not permanent, spoiler for Oliver and Felicity. The spoilers still seem to me to indicate that he is exactly that.  Felicity is having very specific issues with Oliver, Ray provides an alternative, and she will take advantage of that for an arc before--probably--realizing that it isn't actually what she wants or needs. 

 

And Laurel, to me, is the perfect example of a complete mess that was clearly written with the intention of making people like and accept her. The show's intentions shouldn't be confused to much with the strange choices we see on the screen, because...yeah. Laurel is our case in point. I also really don't see any set-up or hints toward Laurel and Oliver as a romantic couple, even if I squint. They might go for it again someday, but IMO, they're certainly not laying any groundwork for it now. I didn't think Feliciity's "light" comment had anything to do with Laurel in the context of Oliver. We already got a far more blatant reference to Oliver's own light in the Flash crossover that clearly designated Felicity as the keeper of Oliver's light. 

[Chaser]

I don't understand the 'toxic' comparison of Oliver and Laurel S1 to Olicity S3.

 

Oliver isn't saying he loves Felicity and then getting into bed with or starting relationships with other woman. Felicity isn't kissing Oliver and then running to Ray. They aren't lying to each other. Or pretending to be people that they aren't. Their relationship is strained right now and there is a lack of commuication. However, I don't fault Felicity for not fighting to be in a romantic relationship with Oliver right now. Oliver came back from the dead to align himself with the devil, something the Oliver she knows and lives would never do. Right now, Oliver is focused on Thea. I may have issues with his actions (still withholding information from Thea about his new BFF Malcolm), but I can't argue that focus.

 

They were always going to make Laurel Black Canary. She was always going to be apart of the Team. I wouldn't take it as a sign of anything yet.

[jay741982]

I love this post and I agree!

I don't understand the 'toxic' comparison of Oliver and Laurel S1 to Olicity S3.

Oliver isn't saying he loves Felicity and then getting into bed with or starting relationships with other woman. Felicity isn't kissing Oliver and then running to Ray. They aren't lying to each other. Or pretending to be people that they aren't. Their relationship is strained right now and there is a lack of commuication. However, I don't fault Felicity for not fighting to be in a romantic relationship with Oliver right now. Oliver came back from the dead to align himself with the devil, something the Oliver she knows and lives would never do. Right now, Oliver is focused on Thea. I may have issues with his actions (still withholding information from Thea about his new BFF Malcolm), but I can't argue that focus.

They were always going to make Laurel Black Canary. She was always going to be apart of the Team. I wouldn't take it as a sign of anything yet.

[catrox14]

To be fair he has stomped on her heart already more than once.

He knowingly broke her heart once that I recall. That was after he took her to dinner and was bombed and then decided he couldn't be OQ and the Arrow.

It's Felicity's prerogative to be mad at Oliver about Malcolm but I think her anger and attitude are not commiserate with his crime. I think it's being played that she is also angry and hurt that he left at all, that he won't be with her even if she loves him because Arrow reasons.

I don't like the writers conflating those things. It's gross and prior to Oliver declaring his love for her, she never allowed those viewpoints to cross over in the lair.

[MsSchadenfreude]

Interesting double standard.  When Oliver allows personal feelings about their relationship to cross over into their vigilante activities it's okay, but if Felicity does it, it's gross. Oliver acted like a tool for how many episodes this season insinuating that Felicity was not on her game because he was mad at Felicity for taking a job or having dinner with Ray.   If Felicity continues to use this Malcolm situation to bring their personal relationship woes out in the lair, she probably learned it from Oliver. 

 

As for Oliver breaking her heart only once, I don't think so.  If a guy told some villain of the week that he had to be alone knowing that I was listening over the comms, I am going to assume that was done intentionally to make sure I knew once again that nothing was happening between us.

[catrox14]

Interesting double standard.  When Oliver allows personal feelings about their relationship to cross over into their vigilante activities it's okay, but if Felicity does it, it's gross. Oliver acted like a tool for how many episodes this season insinuating that Felicity was not on her game because he was mad at Felicity for taking a job or having dinner with Ray.   If Felicity continues to use this Malcolm situation to bring their personal relationship woes out in the lair, she probably learned it from Oliver. 

 

As for Oliver breaking her heart only once, I don't think so.  If a guy told some villain of the week that he had to be alone knowing that I was listening over the comms, I am going to assume that was done intentionally to make sure I knew once again that nothing was happening between us.

 

Felicity is the female. It's a gross trope to have it introduced NOW for Felicity's character who has done well to keep those things separated.   I am not angry with Felicity for her feelings. I'm pissed off that the writers chose that characterization for Felicity when she's never been that way before.

 

Oliver has always been that way with getting his emotions about the people he cares about mixed up with trying to be the Arrow and Oliver Queen and making choices with trying to protect them. He's still doing the same thing here.  IMO it's consistent characterization for Oliver, until he changes.

 

Felicity's anger is filled with the subtext created from the "I don't want to be a woman you love" line. It's lazy writing and it puts Felicity in a bad light as a typical woman who can't separate her personal issues with Oliver and their stalled romance and his decision to work with Malcolm and resuming his role as leader, which are things she is entitled to be pissed off about.  It's being conflated not by me, but by the lazy writing to drum up contrived drama and set up Felicity to run to Ray.  That's what makes it gross. Not because Oliver does the same thing which is what he's always done. It's a huge shift in Felicity's characterization that is inorganic. 

[catrox14]

ETA:

 

Felicity acted like Oliver when she made the unilateral decision to lock down the garage to save Dig and Roy's life. It was personal and practical leadership decision to protect two people she loves and cares about. What's different this time is that the looks exchanged between Oliver and Felicity are not just about the professional disagreement over Malcolm and that is why it's really bothering me.  

 

I makes me worry what else they will do with Felicity to make it "dramatic"!

[catrox14]

Whooooaaa just read casting spoiler for The Flash....and I am really annoyed said person is not showing up on Arrow.

[ban1o]

Whooooaaa just read casting spoiler for The Flash....and I am really annoyed said person is not showing up on Arrow.

who was cast? 

[jay741982]

Whooooaaa just read casting spoiler for The Flash....and I am really annoyed said person is not showing up on Arrow.

Are you talking about Emily Kinney playing Felicity's Nemesis Brie Laravan? Yeah it sucks she ain't on Arrow UNLESS they are working on her showing up on ARROW

[catrox14]

Nope . I really dislike Emi;y Kinney

[jay741982]

Nope . I really dislike Emi;y Kinney

Lol that's fine I was asking if that's what you were talking about?

[catrox14]

If I'm interpreting a tweet properly from Grant Gustin

: It's Liam McIntyre

I'm not talking about Emily Kinney

[jay741982]

If I'm interpreting a tweet properly from Grant Gustin

: It's Liam McIntyre

I'm not talking about Emily Kinney

Oh Ok and yes he is showing up on The Flash As the second Weather Wizard.

[catrox14]

SON OF A BITCH!! WHY !

Why would they not put Oliver's doppelganger to be Oliver's doppelganger on Arrow :(

BOO I SAY BOO!

 

Just goes to show that IMO Berlanti cares about the Flash and not Arrow :(.  /bitter and jealous

Edited February 14, 2015 by catrox14

[jay741982]

SON OF A BITCH!! WHY !

Why would they not put Oliver's doppelganger to be Oliver's doppelganger on Arrow :(

BOO I SAY BOO!

 

Just goes to show that IMO Berlanti cares about the Flash and not Arrow :(.  /bitter and jealous

I didn't realize it until you said it but he does look like SA a bit

[statsgirl]

Liam MacIntyre won the role of Spartacus that he and SA were competing for. It would be a little too meta to have him turn up on Arrow as Oliver's doppelganger.

 

 

I've been lurking for awhile, and thought I'd jump in just to add some fresh perspective. I really don't think anyone is purposely trying to tank Oliver and Felicity. I think the producers and the network knows exactly how popular they are, and they're attempting to use it as a tool to create drama and ratings, as is done with most popular pairings. The way they're doing it has become increasingly frustrating to a lot of people, because it's not particularly organic, creative, or well written, but I think those are faults on the part of the writers and producers and not purposeful attempts to harm the viability of the pairing.

I love your whole post.

 

The show hit gold in Felicity and the SA/EBR chemistry. They're not going to tank it on purpose but they have been doing it inadvertently with bad writing and trying to delay them getting together.  It's been made much worse by 1. rushing through the emotional beats to get more masked superheroes and 2. MG thinking that he can use Felicity to prop Ray and Laurel even when it's ridiculous and people will still love her.

 

Robert Dougherty has been writing about how an alternative approach would have been avoided many of these problems. It's well worth the read.

 

 

He knowingly broke her heart once that I recall. That was after he took her to dinner and was bombed and then decided he couldn't be OQ and the Arrow.

He's been breaking her heart for more than a year now, from telling her he can't be with someone he really cares about and hooking up with Sara shortly after, to not being honest and telling her he loved her back on Lian Yu in Unthinkable (gaslighting her because she has to have some sense he cares for her), to not giving her a say in the break-up, to the "and you know how I feel about her" but not doing anything, to telling Carrie he couldn't be with anyone when he knew Felicity was listening in, to telling her again he loves her and walking away and then rejecting her as soon as he got back by working with MM.

 

I love the guy, and I know what he's thinking.  If I didn't I'd be telling Felicity to run fast and run far because he's a manipulator.

Edited February 14, 2015 by statsgirl

[newbie]

It is allowed to bring up a Different spoiler topic? When oliver did came back from the Island he reacts very fast and almost aggressive on Walter you could almost suggest him going to the throut of Walter. Maybe we will find out now, why, because he saw already Walter and moira together? And had two years time to broil things up. this and the knowledgde he had never real got the chance to grief for Robert and let him go and Rest in peace are coming together. I think

[jay741982]

It is allowed to bring up a Different spoiler topic? When oliver did came back from the Island he reacts very fast and almost aggressive on Walter you could almost suggest him going to the throut of Walter. Maybe we will find out now, why, because he saw already Walter and moira together? And had two years time to broil things up. this and the knowledgde he had never real got the chance to grief for Robert and let him go and Rest in peace are coming together. I think

CS and ST aren't in next weeks episode but maybe Oliver will see them off screen?

[AyChihuahua]

Susanna Thompson said no to coming back.

[statsgirl]

Oliver was very hostile towards Walter in the Return Dinner scene, as if he didn't know that Moira had married him.  I think Colin Salmon said he was shooting on Arrow earlier so maybe we'll see a Walter scene if not a Moira one.  (Please come back, Colin, Thea needs Walter!)

 

The sleep attack on Walter I thought was to show how much Oliver had become like a wild animal, with lightning fast reflexes in case someone/thing attacked him in his sleep rather than an unconscious anger at Moira.

[CabotCove]

I find it sad that some Felicity fans want her to be happy but yet don't want it with Ray(Gulity here) and are turning on her cause of being nice to Laurel.

 

Yes, Felicity is definitely not known for her compassion.

 

Susanna Thompson said no to coming back.

 

Ouch. 

Edited February 15, 2015 by Conell

[AyChihuahua]

There have been plenty of posts detailing exactly what about the Laurel-Felicity interaction that people did not like, and it wasn't that she was being nice to Laurel.

[jay741982]

There have been plenty of posts detailing exactly what about the Laurel-Felicity interaction that people did not like, and it wasn't that she was being nice to Laurel.

I've been seeing people basically saying they aren't liking her cause of her bad comment about Sara. Propping laurel Etc etc. And I'm like okay Felicity is known for having compassion even for Laurel who I'm not a big fan of either. They need to be mad Big Laurel Stan MG

[statsgirl]

The thing is, it could all have been avoided so easily if Felicity had said "You have a different light than Sara, Laurel.  You don't need to be her to be a hero."

 

Kind to Laurel + no trashing of Sara = Felicity in character and a happy audience.

[CabotCove]

Make her Atemis if we're handing out masks. Since this show doesn't have a problem white washing characters, they can just steal the name, not the character history. Plus, I saw some fan art of Felicity as Artemis and it was cool, and apparently, that's all the show's concerned about anymore.

 

Artemis is really not an alter ego its somebody's name: Artemis Crock. Its nearly as bad as people wanting John Diggle to be John Stewart.

 

Eh thinking she will get killed of is a little bit dramatic imo. Even if Olicity doesn't end up together they won't kill of Felicity. Even if Guggenheim or Kreisberg wanted it, CW wouldn't let it happen. Cw has prevented shows from killing off popular characters before.

 

True story, sometimes they intervene way too much to the detriment of a show.  To some a non-Olicity Felicity is as good as dead, probably a lot worse than a dead Felicity. 

 

 

Buy why, seriously fucking why, is this show that is called Arrow giving fans the origin story and heroic evolution of some fucking character who has nothing whatsoever to do with the Green Arrow mythos? What the hell is going through their tiny brains, to think this is a good idea? Now all the media is about Ray Fucking Palmer and his low-rent Iron Man act. I just... I can't even.... None of it makes any sense at all.

 

There are still complains about Laurel and ROy being in the show even though they ARE Green Arrow mythos. And this show Arrow was born out of Green Arrow starring  in Smallville and eventually becoming regular of a SUPERMAN show. 

Edited February 15, 2015 by Conell

[statsgirl]

The thing is, it could all have been avoided so easily if Felicity had said "You have a different light than Sara, Laurel.  You don't need to be her to be a hero."

 

Kind to Laurel + no trashing of Sara = Felicity in character and a happy audience.

 

I'm dissapointed that Slade will only be interacting with Oliver, Thea and Malcolm because I'd really live to see him up against Diggle and Felicity now.  I wonder if he will mention Diggle and Felicity, or if he'll only talk about Laurel since that seems all the show is concerned with these days.

[insubordination]

 

Susanna Thompson said no to coming back.

 

Good for her. I've no idea why she declined, but I'm glad she did.   They killed off her character in a horrible way, and the show is worse without the Moira/Oliver relationship.  Flashbacks don't make up for all the females they've violently disposed of (OK, and Tommy). MG doesn't deserve to have her back.

 

I hope CLotz also says 'no' from now on. 'Cos it's an insult what they've done to the memory of her character (who apparently has no light inside of her. If she comes back, they'll probably point out that she has no soul either). 

 

Colin Salmon is also too good for the show. Keep saying 'no' my friend.

 

Hmmm...I seem to have lost my way from the bitterness thread.

[catrox14]

Artemis is really not an alter ego its somebody's name: Artemis Crock. Its nearly as bad as people wanting John Diggle to be John Stewart.

 

True story, sometimes they intervene way too much to the detriment of a show.  To some a non-Olicity Felicity is as good as dead, probably a lot worse than a dead Felicity. 

 

 

There are still complains about Laurel and ROy being in the show even though they ARE Green Arrow mythos. And this show Arrow was born out of Green Arrow starring  in Smallville and eventually becoming regular of a SUPERMAN show. 

But isn't that because they couldn't use Batman so they went for Green Arrow?  That's a very different animal the Atom.

[CabotCove]

But isn't that because they couldn't use Batman so they went for Green Arrow?  That's a very different animal the Atom.

 

Arrow wanted Ted Kord (Blue Beetle) and was offered Ray Palmer, sounds like a similar situation to Smallville to me. In any case, does it really matter how it came to be, it helped Green Arrow. Being denied Batman seemed to work out better in the end for Smallville and Green Arrow. Arrow might just do the same for Atom and likely other heroes.  Smallville remained Clark Kent's show till end, despite a growing number of heroes showing up in town. Arrow might just pull the same too.

Edited February 15, 2015 by Conell

[catrox14]

No I meant them introducing Green Arrow into Smallville was because they couldn't use Batman,  and Green Arrow is Batman-lite.

[kismet]

The thing is, it could all have been avoided so easily if Felicity had said "You have a different light than Sara, Laurel. You don't need to be her to be a hero."

Kind to Laurel + no trashing of Sara = Felicity in character and a happy audience.

Basic understanding of characters or fan reactions are not MGs strengths. He goes for epic and in doing so misses all the little details that make something epic or a game changer. Its simple math, I wish he'd figure that out.

[jay741982]

The thing is, it could all have been avoided so easily if Felicity had said "You have a different light than Sara, Laurel.  You don't need to be her to be a hero."

 

Kind to Laurel + no trashing of Sara = Felicity in character and a happy audience.

Exactly! It's a damn Shame that MG actually thought people wouldn't get mad over that line. We remember that Felicity adored and admired Sara you Ignoramus and was friends with her. Sara adored Felicity as well.

[Guest]

I actually have no problem with Laurel and Felicity sharing scenes and having moments, maybe building a friendship eventually. It's naive to think that would never happen, especially with Laurel on the team now. I just think those scenes have to be earned. That moment between them in 313 would have been kind of nice if Sara's character hadn't been thrown under the bus in the process. What Felicity said was extremely out of character which meant she was being used for one purpose only in that moment and that was to make Laurel look good. I think that was the main issue, not that Laurel and Felicity were sharing scenes at all. At least that's my personal read on it.

 

But this is a problem with the show as a whole. I mean, I never thought Diggle was close enough with Sara to name his daughter after her because I didn't see any of that on screen but they have no problem just leaving everything to audience interpretation. It's ridiculous. Show us the relationships and friendships building and maybe we won't have a problem with it.

Edited February 15, 2015 by Guest

[Artsda]

Susanna Thompson said no to coming back.

Caity needs to follow that lead.

[Password]

Robert Dougherty has been writing about how an alternative approach would have been avoided many of these problems. It's well worth the read.

Oh my word I would pay money to see this scenario play out. Tbh it's what I expected/hoped for when Oliver returned. I am genuinely shocked they decided Oliver needs to work with Malcolm.

I agree about Oliver being a bit...confused. I wouldn't say manipulator but he definitely comes across as leading her son He doesn't mean to. He doesn't mean to lead her on. At this point I wonder if he doesn't do that because he wants a reaction out of her because he doesn't know where she's at. But at the same time I'd tell Felicity to stay FAR away from Ray. Just no.

Edited February 15, 2015 by Limbo

[tv echo]

I hope that Jillibean is right - btw, glad you delurked!  But I just don't trust these EPs anymore and this season has made me pessimistic, esp. with the spoilers for upcoming episodes.  I wouldn't underestimate their arrogance, their apparent preference for style over substance, or their devotion to comic book "canon".

Edited February 15, 2015 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Is this even remotely believable?