Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Chaser]

If Roy at the very least doesn't try and get Thea away, I'm calling foul. Really though it should be Team Arrow as a whole. 

 

I don't understand Laurel being compassionate with Thea, not right away at least. I guess as long as she is beating someone up she doesn't have to be beating up her sister's actual killer. 

 

Thinking about it more, I need someone to snap at Thea about her poor choices. Yes, Malcolm drugged her into murder but she choose to leave with a mass murder. And she knew what he was capable of. I understand her daddy issues and her anger, but really it was stupid. 

[ban1o]

 

Thinking about it more, I need someone to snap at Thea about her poor choices. Yes, Malcolm drugged her into murder but she choose to leave with a mass murder. And she knew what he was capable of. I understand her daddy issues and her anger, but really it was stupid. 

I definitely agree with this as well. 

[NumberCruncher]

I'm starting to get the feeling that Laurel and Thea will train together after Laurel finds out (maybe with Nyssa too), based on KC's comment, and Marc's teasing about these great scenes between ladies coming up in 3B. And that does fit Laurel's character--she would totally turn this to her advantage, to have Thea help her learn how to fight.

Well that would at least make some sense since Thea and Laurel have a history as friends. What doesn't make sense is trying to force a Laurel/Felicity friendship when it's been shown time and time again that they don't mesh in that way. The show has shown enough interaction between Thea and Laurel that I wouldn't find a scenario where they end up training together to be so far-fetched.

[statsgirl]

I agree, the first priority should be to get Thea away from Malcolm, and I was really hoping Felicity would go all Warrior on her ass.  That's the only way it could come from Felicity, with truth tea, because Thea barely knows her and doesn't know she's been helping Oliver for two years, or even that Oliver is the Arrow.

 

But from Laurel's perspective, she'd want to know why it was suddenly so important to get Thea away from Malcolm when Oliver was okay with her associating with him a few weeks ago, and why she's suddenly living with Roy?  Felicity? when she's got her own posh place.. And if Laurel's in the lair now, there would be no planning without her listening in.

 

 

Thinking about it more, I need someone to snap at Thea about her poor choices. Yes, Malcolm drugged her into murder but she choose to leave with a mass murder. And she knew what he was capable of. I understand her daddy issues and her anger, but really it was stupid.

Come to think of it, that's something both Laurel and Thea have in common (beyond their love of nice things), that when they think they're right or have been hard done by, nothing and no one else matters.

Edited January 17, 2015 by statsgirl

[ban1o]

i doubt they would have Thea train Laurel. Thea's been training for like what 7 months? And is a lot younger than Laurel. They'll bring in another trainer for Laurel. They could train together though. 

Edited January 17, 2015 by ban1o

[apinknightmare]

I agree, the first priority should be to get Thea away from Malcolm, and I was really hoping Felicity would go all Warrior on her ass.  That's the only way it could come from Felicity, with truth tea, because Thea barely knows her and doesn't know she's been helping Oliver for two years, or even that Oliver is the Arrow.

 

But from Laurel's perspective, she'd want to know why it was suddenly so important to get Thea away from Malcolm when Oliver was okay with her associating with him a few weeks ago, and why she's suddenly living with Roy?  Felicity? when she's got her own posh place.. And if Laurel's in the lair now, there would be no planning without her listening in.

 

I guess I just figured that Laurel isn't in the lair right away (doesn't she go out as BC on her own at first and then Diggle and Roy are "forced" to bring her in when they need help with Brick?), so this would've taken place prior to that. So she wouldn't have even known. 

 

Not that this matters, since it's not happening anyway, but.

[DrSpaceman10]

When they first released the "spoiler" about Thea and Felicity sharing "a lot" of scenes together in the second half of the season, I thought it meant that Felicity/Diggle/Roy would be telling Thea the whole truth. But now that the Thea/Felicity scenes have been pushed off (which I'm still disappointed about), I don't think Thea's going to find out anything (about Malcolm or Oliver) anytime soon.

 

I really wish the writers would have Team Arrow tell Thea the whole truth, I think it would make for a much more interesting storyline. 

[Chaser]

I was really hoping that the lack of anything on Felicity and Thea coupled with the spoiler about them sharing a lot of screen time together meant Felicity would tell Thea something and they would be working together. 

 

Oh if wishes were horses...

 

Someone needs to ask MG how they pushed back 'a lot' of screen time between Felicity and Thea. If he said they shared one scene then sure, but 'a lot' indicates actual plot. I agree with others; He was baiting.

[jay741982]

I'm hoping the Thea/Felicity scenes later this season will be Sister getting to know Brother's Woman and future Sister-in-law LOL

As well as Dropping truth bombs about Malcolm

[ban1o]

I was really hoping that the lack of anything on Felicity and Thea coupled with the spoiler about them sharing a lot of screen time together meant Felicity would tell Thea something and they would be working together. 

 

Oh if wishes were horses...

 

Someone needs to ask MG how they pushed back 'a lot' of screen time between Felicity and Thea. If he said they shared one scene then sure, but 'a lot' indicates actual plot. I agree with others; He was baiting.

IT was probably like one scene that marc guggenheim over exaggerated (like he sometimes does) than he decided to delete it lol. 

[statsgirl]

A bonding scene rather than an action scene, so let's scrub it.

[jay741982]

A bonding scene rather than an action scene, so let's scrub it.

Yeah who wants to see that when we can see unlikeable characters pushed to the front?

[wingster55]

But Felicity is in the forefront... ;)

[catrox14]

But Felicity is in the forefront... ;)

 

I don't think so. She is being slightly sidelined and forced to prop Laurel...so I'm not sure how that make her front and center

[wonderwall]

But Felicity is in the forefront... ;)

Nah, Sally and the Fern are in the forefront for the next few episodes :')

[jay741982]

I don't think so. She is being slightly sidelined and forced to prop Laurel...so I'm not sure how that make her front and center

Ill BARF if she has to Prop up Laurel same goes for Diggle.

[wonderwall]

God why can't Felicity train some more? You'd think Oliver would've wanted the woman he loves to be a good fighter in case she has to break out some moves

Felicity is perfect as she is. I firmly believe that not everyone on the show has to know how to kick physical ass. Felicity is perfectly capable of kicking someone where it truly hurts. She's, after all, the bitch with wi-fi. So while Thea/Laurel/Oliver/Diggle/Roy can physically hurt someone, Felicity can destroy the rest of their lives with a few strokes of her keyboard. Felicity is powerful. She's just as powerful as Oliver. She's just powerful in a different manner. 

[Password]

It's something I love about them tbh. They bring different personalities and characters to the table that when placed together, make them a power couple.

Mwahahahahaha!

[ban1o]

OMG 

marcguggenheim
matthatter4u asked:

I loved the actors playing Robert and Moira. Was curious to see if they were open to return for a flashback or dream sequence? I've seen alot of former cast members shown returning to the writer's room on twitter.

Get ready to be 50% happy…

 

I think this means Susannah Thompson/Moira will return!!!! So happy I miss Moira 

It will probably be in that flashback episode though/ 

Edited January 17, 2015 by ban1o

[jay741982]

Felicity is perfect as she is. I firmly believe that not everyone on the show has to know how to kick physical ass. Felicity is perfectly capable of kicking someone where it truly hurts. She's, after all, the bitch with wi-fi. So while Thea/Laurel/Oliver/Diggle/Roy can physically hurt someone, Felicity can destroy the rest of their lives with a few strokes of her keyboard. Felicity is powerful. She's just as powerful as Oliver. She's just powerful in a different manner.

Oh you are so right! I never would deny she's already badass! God her and Oliver together would be such a badass couple

[KirkB]

Here's the thing. We know Malcolm drugged Thea and got her to kill Sara. Since he is willing and able to do that, I see no reason to think he hasn't done it more than once. In last season's finale she went from wanting nothing to do with him to passively getting in the car with him. For all we know he could have drugged her for the first time after we saw her walking away. Her entire time with him could be a brainwashed lie. Yes, I know this would remove pretty much all of Thea's agency from her but doesn't that sound plausible under the circumstances?

[chaos is welcome]

Here's the thing. We know Malcolm drugged Thea and got her to kill Sara. Since he is willing and able to do that, I see no reason to think he hasn't done it more than once. In last season's finale she went from wanting nothing to do with him to passively getting in the car with him. For all we know he could have drugged her for the first time after we saw her walking away. Her entire time with him could be a brainwashed lie. Yes, I know this would remove pretty much all of Thea's agency from her but doesn't that sound plausible under the circumstances?

Nah, her flashback showed her being there willingly.

Although, ya know, at this point they obviously don't let little things like common sense or logic or prior things they have shown stop them.

[Velocity23]

The moment when Felicity repeats "He Is Alive." to Malcolm is everything :(

[Password]

Felicity in denial aaaaaaaaaah. Help me someone I can't wait.

[ban1o]

Wait so does that scene take place before Malcolm goes to the mountain to find the sword?

[jay741982]

The moment when Felicity repeats "He Is Alive." to Malcolm is everything :(

Oh god my shipper heart :( OF COURSE Felicity wouldn't want to believe her Oliver is dead. Poor Felicity :(

Edited January 17, 2015 by jay741982

[Guest]

Poor Felicity. She's trying to hold it together. :(

 

 

Wait so does that scene take place before Malcolm goes to the mountain to find the sword?

 

I'm guessing it does. So that scene happens at the start of the episode and then the scene where he brings them the sword probably happens at the end, when Felicity turns off the lights. I think it would be more poignant that way anyway.

Edited January 17, 2015 by Guest

[statsgirl]

If I were writing the show, I would make that scene after Malcolm has gone to get the sword but before the scene where he shows it to them to prove Oliver is dead.  It would be toying with them like a cat toys with a mouse he's about to kill, the kind of power and mind games he gets off on.

 

I can see Malcolm going up to the mountain to watch the duel himself but not making the trip just to see if there is a weapon left behind. If Oliver is dead, his Team would be crushed soon enough.  He's too fastidious to get himself dirty for just that.

 

Damn, but EBR is great in that scene.  No wonder the EPs have been praising her performance.

 

 

. For all we know he could have drugged her for the first time after we saw her walking away. Her entire time with him could be a brainwashed lie. Yes, I know this would remove pretty much all of Thea's agency from her but doesn't that sound plausible under the circumstances?

Thea was being her usual pissed-off teenage self in that scene.   Roy lied to me, my mother lied to me, Oliver lied to me.  I'll show them, I'm going to go off with my psycho murdering father.   Totally believable for it to be her own decision and in keeping with the Thea from season 1.   Everything after that is up for grabs though.

[Danny Franks]

That promo for the episode, have they really asked Katie Cassidy to give a convincing reaction to emotionally devastating news again? Will they never learn? I guess you'll get to see that blank expression quietly seguing into Joey Tribbiani trying to divide 232 by 13 again.

 

I really wish EBR was on a show I wanted to watch. Just that one line reading is so good. Denial, fear, grief, anger, all mixed into two little words.

Edited January 17, 2015 by Danny Franks

[jay741982]

That promo for the episode, have they really asked Katie Cassidy to give a convincing reaction to emotionally devastating news again? Will they never learn? I guess you'll get to see that blank expression quietly seguing into Joey Tribbiani trying to divide 232 by 13 again.

 

I really wish EBR was on a show I wanted to watch. Just that one line reading is so good. Denial, fear, grief, anger, all mixed into two little words.

Yeah KC will look silly compared to EBR that's for sure. I agree about EBR in that scene.

[foreverevolving]

The moment when Felicity repeats "He Is Alive." to Malcolm is everything :(

 

 

Felicity in denial aaaaaaaaaah. Help me someone I can't wait.

 

 

Oh god my shipper heart :( OF COURSE Felicity wouldn't want to believe her Oliver is dead. Poor Felicity :(

 

Denial? naa

While it sounds idiotic with Laurel, Felicity does know Oliver in her bones, so of course she'll sense it if he's dead or not.

or that is just me hoping they'll play it that way.

Edited January 17, 2015 by foreverevolving

[jay741982]

What denial people?

While it sounds idiotic with Laurel, Felicity does know Oliver in her bones, so of course she'll sense it if he's dead or not.

or that is just me hoping they'll play it that way.

Hey I agree with you Felicity definitely knows him better and they should play it like she wont believe he's dead until she sees a body. Sadly MG thinks we forgot Malcolm shouldn't be trusted by anyone on Team Arrow. I'd love to see Felicity never lose hope that he's alive cause she would FEEL it if he was but it won't happen sadly

[looptab]

Felicity :(

Aside from that, the lair is actually a bus station.

[ban1o]

Aside from that, the lair is actually a bus station.

yep lol

[looptab]

I'm thinking they enter to find Malcolm casually waiting for them. New drinking game: 2 shots everytime someone new gets inside!

[apinknightmare]

I'm thinking they enter to find Malcolm casually waiting for them. New drinking game: 2 shots everytime someone new gets inside!

 

At least he actually has some kind of business being there, considering he owns the place, haha. (which is stupid. show, please stop being so stupid)

Edited January 17, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Ariah]

Some thoughts on the spoilers:

 

Thea/Malcolm clip -> is she fighting with the same kind of  jian swords Oliver fought Ra's with? Very thoughtfull of Malcolm, I guess.

 

Felicity/Roy/Malcolm clip -> damn, Felicity! That intonation. She'll break my heart into pieces this episode.

 

Malcolm's connection to Brick - so probably Brick (or one of his men) killed Malcolm's wife? I bet that's it.

 

Who's going to waltz to the Arrow[less] cave next? My money's on Brick. My heart is with Quentin. He deserves to see the Cave! Everyone's been down there...

[BkWurm1]

Here's the thing. We know Malcolm drugged Thea and got her to kill Sara. Since he is willing and able to do that, I see no reason to think he hasn't done it more than once. In last season's finale she went from wanting nothing to do with him to passively getting in the car with him. For all we know he could have drugged her for the first time after we saw her walking away. Her entire time with him could be a brainwashed lie. Yes, I know this would remove pretty much all of Thea's agency from her but doesn't that sound plausible under the circumstances?

We saw Thea willingly walking away with him and her willing training with him but that doesn't explain why she would go from "I'm fine with shooting you but I want you to make me strong" to "don't make me choose between my brother and my father." I think he could have pulled out the brainwashing herbs to undo her resistance toward him. Say Thea is reminded who he really is and remembers to be horrified. He douses her with the herbs, rewrites her brain and makes her forget feeling like that.

He could not be using the herbs all the time because the side effect was to leave the victim with no memory while they were under the influence but I fully believe even if he didn't use the herbs that he subjected her to brainwashing techniques. Thea was too independent a thinker to be this loyal toward him without some kind of mind manipulation.

[foreverevolving]

Thea was too independent a thinker to be this loyal toward him without some kind of mind manipulation.

 

True. But we also got a taste of the kind of ruthless training she went through. after awhile it is possible her fear of him got sensitized (with and without the herbs).

that kind of training is designed to shift the trainee thinking and accept the trainer word as god. it's cult mind washing. it's probably how the league is able to keep people around once they realize what it is. 

[Happy Harpy]

 I hope that @KirkB and @BkWurm1 are right. I know that the EPs said they killed Moira so that Thea had no one to turn to but Malcolm, and I can see her getting in the car in a moment of weakness, with the shock and aftershock (Moira killed in front of her, Oliver leaving her alone to deal with the funeral, Roy lying to her, the attack etc). But I can also see Malcolm feeding her the drugs daily, knowing that she wouldn't stay with him in her right mind beyond that moment of weakness.

Unless, of course, Thea was playing Malcolm from the start, her truly siding with bio-daddy is OOC for me. So, since her agency was already taken from her with the video thing, I hope they don't ruin what has always been imo the one saving grace of the character, her despise for lying murderers.

 

EBR is awesome, and I hope that Felicity will stay as awesome as she is in the preview. The maneuver is obvious, I know it's supposed to lure me into watching the Canary Trilogy, er, Tetralogy, er, let's call it S3-B, but a drop of awesomeness, even if it's EBR/Felicity awesome awesomeness, isn't enough to make up for the ocean of suckitude that was spoiled beforehand. Sorry, not sorry!

Edited January 17, 2015 by Happy Harpy

[ban1o]

Well it's not really a maneuver. I mean, since it was EBR's turn to do the countdown, they showed a Felicity scene. 

[wonderwall]

That clip actually makes it clear to me that it's not Malcolm who saves Oliver, it's Maseo. Malcolm would never save Oliver and I can't really believe I thought he'd be an option. He'd sooner push him further off that cliff and gloat about Oliver's downfall (pun intended) than help him. 

[apinknightmare]

I've been thinking about how this whole Laurel suiting up thing shakes out, and here's my theory:

 

MG said that something that happens in 3x10 necessitates Laurel putting on the costume, and I thought it was mighty presumptuous of her to think she could take Oliver's place. But what if she's not just taking Oliver's place, she's taking Team Arrow's place? I think they might disband in 3x10, and Laurel (unbeknownst to them, maybe) decides to take up crimefighting to fill the void on the streets of not only Arrow but Arsenal and Diggle as well. Maybe the last shot we get of the team together is Felicity shutting off the lights then cut to Laurel suiting up and uttering some ridiculous "I am the justice you can't outrun," or whatever nonsense. 3x10 actually ends with her being victorious in a fairly simple fight. Everyone (<--- using this term loosely) thinks she's badass, it ends on a high note for her.

 

In 3x11 Team Arrow starts to realize that they miss being a part of something, then come back together for their own reasons and get wind that there's someone on the street calling herself Black Canary. They'd be curious, of course, then Roy would come across her while responding to a call Felicity hears over the wires and see her getting her ass beat. She reveals herself to him all bruised up, and he maybe has a little talk with her, then goes back and explains the situation to Diggle and Felicity. Then Diggle goes out to try and appeal to her to stop, then Brick calls his Unstoppable Army of Criminals to arms and all hell breaks loose. I'm thinking there's some kind of time jump (not too long, maybe a couple of weeks?) between 3x10 and 3x11, and 3x12 takes place in the same night-few night span as 3x11? That way Laurel only struggles within the span of an ep, then magically gets better with teamwork? 

 

That way they'd probably hope to quiet the people saying she magically got good (even though she would, but her struggles would mostly be off camera), and she could actually be shown being good (with the team) in that same episode, quieting the BC fans who would be angry that she's struggling? 

 

I don't know, just a thought. 

Edited January 18, 2015 by apinknightmare

[wonderwall]

I don't know, just a thought. 

 

That's a great theory! I just don't know because we see Digg/Roy out in the field without Laurel so I don't think they're going to stop crime fighting without Felicity. Plus, it seems like Diggle really wants to honor Oliver by continuing everything he was working for. I don't see him giving that up. But I do see Felicity not wanting to go back but Digg bringing Felicity back because they need her. Both for her expertise and because she's Felicity. She's irreplaceable. I don't even see Roy wanting to give up because of Oliver's death. 

 

Your theory is great, but it feels like the writers would be sort of reducing Team Arrow just to prop up Laurel which isn't something I like at all. 

[apinknightmare]

That's a great theory! I just don't know because we see Digg/Roy out in the field without Laurel so I don't think they're going to stop crime fighting without Felicity. Plus, it seems like Diggle really wants to honor Oliver by continuing everything he was working for. I don't see him giving that up. 

 

I figured that Diggle and Roy being in the field would be them taking care of business during the time Oliver was gone, before the find out that he "died." And that Diggle would've tried to convince Felicity, but maybe seeing her upset and walking out causes him a bit of pause, so he takes some time to think about it? I thought maybe we see the team disband at the end of 3x10, then get back sometime near the beginning of 3x11 - again, so it all the transitionary stuff happens off camera - like with Laurel's failed BC-ing.

Edited January 18, 2015 by apinknightmare

[statsgirl]

I think it's a plausible theory.  It throws Diggle and Roy under the bus because Diggle would want to continue (as opposed to joining ARGUS) and Roy took up being a vigilante so that he could save people the way the Arrow saved him, but that's nothing new for Laurel trajectory.

 

That clip actually makes it clear to me that it's not Malcolm who saves Oliver, it's Maseo. Malcolm would never save Oliver and I can't really believe I thought he'd be an option. He'd sooner push him further off that cliff and gloat about Oliver's downfall (pun intended) than help him. 

But what is Malcolm's plan though?  He couldn't have believed that Oliver could defeat Ra's, and if he only wanted Oliver dead, why not kill him himself another way?  And what would be the purpose in wanting Oliver dead?  As John Barrowman said, Malcolm sees Oliver as family in some twisted way.

[apinknightmare]

I think it's a plausible theory.  It throws Diggle and Roy under the bus because Diggle would want to continue (as opposed to joining ARGUS) and Roy took up being a vigilante so that he could save people the way the Arrow saved him, but that's nothing new for Laurel trajectory.

 

But what is Malcolm's plan though?  He couldn't have believed that Oliver could defeat Ra's, and if he only wanted Oliver dead, why not kill him himself another way?  And what would be the purpose in wanting Oliver dead?  As John Barrowman said, Malcolm sees Oliver as family in some twisted way.

 

Does it throw them under the bus if he and Roy come back of their own volition? That's why I thought whatever thinking or processing they'd have to do would mostly take place over the break between 3x10 and 3x11, so we'd end with them leaving and come back to them coming back together independently of anything that Laurel's doing. I thought maybe Diggle saying, "I don't know what happens next," (to Laurel, I guess?) would be followed by saying something along the lines of needing time to process things. Then Laurel knows no one is going to be out watching the streets, so she takes it upon herself to do it and fails until they step in to help her.

 

As for Malcolm, I guess he's playing the long game against Ra's. Maybe he sent Oliver out there on the off chance that he would somehow win? He loses nothing if Oliver dies, and gains a ton by him winning, and if he's playing a super long game that relied on Oliver dying, how would that even work unless he's somehow working with Maseo? But god, that leaves a ton to chance. I don't know what he's up to, honestly. I can't figure it out. 

Edited January 18, 2015 by apinknightmare

[ban1o]

 

 

I don't know, just a thought. 

This is actually a really good theory. I like it! 

[statsgirl]

Does it throw them under the bus if he and Roy come back of their own volition? That's why I thought whatever thinking or processing they'd have to do would mostly take place over the break between 3x10 and 3x11, so we'd end with them leaving and come back to them coming back together independently of anything that Laurel's doing. I thought maybe Diggle saying, "I don't know what happens next," (to Laurel, I guess?) would be followed by saying something along the lines of needing time to process things. Then Laurel knows no one is going to be out watching the streets, so she takes it upon herself to do it and fails until they step in to help her.

It makes sense if Diggle and Roy step back and take a moment to regroup, especially if Felicity's  just shut the lights down on them, and then they can think it over and come back, and Diggle goes to see Felicity and gets her back.  

 

What sticks in my throat is that it just happens to be the time that Brick invades, and Laurel decides to suit up with the black leather she's got hanging in her closet because the trained police can't handle it.  I'll wait and see before judging the episode but it all seems so contrived right now.  Why would she think she could replace all of Team Arrow? 

[apinknightmare]

It makes sense if Diggle and Roy step back and take a moment to regroup, especially if Felicity's  just shut the lights down on them, and then they can think it over and come back, and Diggle goes to see Felicity and gets her back.  

 

What sticks in my throat is that it just happens to be the time that Brick invades, and Laurel decides to suit up with the black leather she's got hanging in her closet because the trained police can't handle it.  I'll wait and see before judging the episode but it all seems so contrived right now.  Why would she think she could replace all of Team Arrow? 

 

I can give the convenient timing a pass, because nearly everything on this show is convenient timing. If Laurel suited up because Team Arrow disbanded for a short period of time, to me it's not so much an ego issue as far as her thinking she could replace them, but more of a "no one else is here to do it, so I will," kind of thing.

Edited January 18, 2015 by apinknightmare