Spoiler Discussion Thread

[apinknightmare]

So, I'm confused.

 

Sin's coming back in 12 to offer up some valuable information into the investigation about who killed Sara. Why would anyone still be investigating this? Is Laurel kept in the dark about where Oliver went and why, and if she's unaware that the team knows who killed Sara, does she finally get up off her ass to do some work on the case since mom blessed her vengeance, uncover something and call Sin in, or does the team find something liking Sin to the crime? Or is there some other kind of plot afoot as to why Sara was in town that's going to give a better insight into why she would've been killed that isn't related to Malcolm wanting to erase his blood debt with Ra's (had she uncovered something big? Is there some shady shit going down in Starling that Ra's is a part of?)? Is there more to her asking Quentin and Laurel not to tell the other that she was in town?  

Edited December 12, 2014 by apinknightmare

[Starfish35]

I'm going to have to throw my vote on the side of that being Malcolm's voice in the promo - that just really sounds like Barrowman to me. I might be wrong though. But speaking of the promo, how is it that The Flash got a full length promo for its return, and Arrow only gets this brief clip? Is everything else considered too much of a spoiler or something?

[ostentatious]

Oh, good point.

Maybe something comes up in the meantime to make it clear to TA that it really wasn't Thea? But...how? Why would Merlyn...I hate this whole plot. I hate it.

Malcolm is supposed to be featured in 310, and I can't imagine Dig and Felicity actually working with him now, so it has to be something else, and I think the spoilers had them filming together.

[Starfish35]

Eh. Based on this season's track record, I'm going to say Team Arrow is probably going to keep this from Laurel and Thea, and then somehow when Sin comes back it all comes out. Maybe Sin saw Thea that night or something.

Secrets and lies - great shades of Smallville. :(

[dtissagirl]

I've been thinking maybe Sin is coming back so that Thea can realize something is wrong with her. Maybe Sin and Thea met the day Sara died, but Thea doesn't remember it because MIND CONTROL, and if Sin goes "hey, I haven't seen you since that day you were acting super weird in October", that's how Thea starts to figure out something shady is going on with her.

 

Bonus storyline points if Thea goes to Felicity for help sorting it all out.

Edited December 12, 2014 by dancingnancy

[Starfish35]

I've been thinking maybe Sin is coming back so that Thea can realize something is wrong with her. Maybe Sin and Thea met the day Sara died, but Thea doesn't remember it because MIND CONTROL, and if Sin goes "hey, I haven't seen you since that day you were acting super weird in October", and that's how Thea starts to figure out something shady is going on with her.

Bonus storyline points if Thea goes to Felicity for help sorting it all out.

Yeah I can see it happening like that. So maybe they don't keep Laurel in the dark, just Thea. :/

Edited December 12, 2014 by Starfish35

[Ariah]

Marc replied about the poster thusly: "Is this legit?" "No, but it's awesome."

Maybe they'll pay the author to make a good poster for the reast of the season?...

[calliope1975]

I've been thinking maybe Sin is coming back so that Thea can realize something is wrong with her. Maybe Sin and Thea met the day Sara died, but Thea doesn't remember it because MIND CONTROL, and if Sin goes "hey, I haven't seen you since that day you were acting super weird in October", that's how Thea starts to figure out something shady is going on with her.

 

Bonus storyline points if Thea goes to Felicity for help sorting it all out.

 

I like this because it gives Thea back some of her agency, and if she wakes up to her lying liar who lies father and figures out a way to take him down, all the better. Wasn't there some talk that Thea and Felicity would have scenes together? 

 

Was there ever an extended promo or just the :20 version?

[strikera0]

If Tommy was whisked away quickly by Malcolm (or Malcolm's "people"), then that may be a way to explain how he was saved.  But Sara and Moira are dead dead.

 

Didn't Tommy get buried in Starling City? I know we didn't actually see the funeral, but there has been no sign on the show that his body went missing and his grave is empty. The characters should have behaved in a completely different way at the start of season 2 if that were the case.

[NumberCruncher]

Was there ever an extended promo or just the :20 version?

Only the 0:20 version which is crap since The Flash got an extended promo.

[dtissagirl]

Didn't Tommy get buried in Starling City? I know we didn't actually see the funeral, but there has been no sign on the show that his body went missing and his grave is empty. The characters should have behaved in a completely different way at the start of season 2 if that were the case.

 

I think I can handwave that because I assume Malcolm also had a funeral. Everyone in Starling thought he was dead too, it wasn't just Oliver/Team Arrow thinking so. I guess if Malcolm could arrange for his own funeral to be fake, sure he could have arranged Tommy's just as easily.

[Ariah]

I think I can handwave that because I assume Malcolm also had a funeral. Everyone in Starling thought he was dead too, it wasn't just Oliver/Team Arrow thinking so. I guess if Malcolm could arrange for his own funeral to be fake, sure he could have arranged Tommy's just as easily.

 

...and now I have this comedic vision in my head of Malcolm's men extracting the body from the morgue...

Group A: "We have Merlyn, we have the body secured"

Group B: "What? We have Merlyn! We got the body as was discussed!"

Group A: ...

Group B: ...

Group A: "Wait, which Merlyn do you have, actually?"

Group B: "Oh, bummer."

[DrSpaceman10]

I don't think Tommy is coming back from the dead. Paul Blackthorne posted that picture of himself with hair around the same time that SA posted that picture with Colin Donnell, so I think it's for a flashback.

[writersblock51]

So someone (per MG's tweet) will doubt Oliver is dead.

 

I'd love that it's Diggle, Felicity, Thea and Roy.

 

But it will probably be Laurel because she feels it in her bones.

 

GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[wonderwall]

So someone (per MG's tweet) will doubt Oliver is dead.

 

I'd love that it's Diggle, Felicity, Thea and Roy.

 

But it will probably be Laurel because she feels it in her bones.

 

GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

 

I think it'll be Laurel and Roy which is why they'd probably be working as a team to get info on him and why Laurel suits up? Ughhhhhhhhhhhh

[apinknightmare]

So someone (per MG's tweet) will doubt Oliver is dead.

 

I'd love that it's Diggle, Felicity, Thea and Roy.

 

But it will probably be Laurel because she feels it in her bones.

 

GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

 

It could be more than one person. It should be more than one person. At least Diggle and Felicity, and probably Roy. But definitely Diggle and Felicity, since they know all about the people they're dealing with and know that there is absolutely no reason to trust anything they say. Felicity's had two instances of people she thought were dead coming back around - Digg was around for Sara, so if anyone believes he's dead, those two at least should doubt it. 

I think it'll be Laurel and Roy which is why they'd probably be working as a team to get info on him and why Laurel suits up? Ughhhhhhhhhhhh

 

Since Roy's the only other masked vigilante in town with Oliver gone, I doubt it's them working together so much as Roy doing what he can to keep Laurel from getting herself killed (if MG's assertion that she's going to be a shitty fighter is actually true). 

[wonderwall]

It could be more than one person. It should be more than one person. At least Diggle and Felicity, and probably Roy. But definitely Diggle and Felicity, since they know all about the people they're dealing with and know that there is absolutely no reason to trust anything they say. Felicity's had two instances of people she thought were dead coming back around - Digg was around for Sara, so if anyone believes he's dead, those two at least should doubt it. 

Yeah but remember how MG tweeted that Felicity wouldn't be looking for him? I don't think it's going to be her :/

[NumberCruncher]

Okay I will have a BIG problem if Laurel ends up believing Oliver isn't dead with Felicity believing he is. I will cry "FOUL!" like you cannot even believe. Don't even think of going there, writers!

[apinknightmare]

Yeah but remember how MG tweeted that Felicity wouldn't be looking for him? I don't think it's going to be her :/

 

Yeah, but I think she's got a tracker on him, hence the "She'll know where he is. Or where he isn't." He didn't say she would think he was dead, just that she wouldn't be looking for him - which she wouldn't need to; she'd know where he is.

Edited December 12, 2014 by apinknightmare

[NumberCruncher]

Yeah but remember how MG tweeted that Felicity wouldn't be looking for him? I don't think it's going to be her :/

She may not end up being the one physically looking for him, but that doesn't necessarily mean she doesn't believe he's alive or that she's not assisting others in finding him. While I take everything that MG says with a grain of salt and don't believe his definition of "epic" comes anywhere near mine, I do think he's referring to Felicity going into action in some way as opposed to breaking down in grief at Oliver's "demise".

[wonderwall]

Yeah, but I think she's got a tracker on him, hence the "She'll know where he is. Or where he isn't." He didn't say she would think he was dead, just that she wouldn't be looking for him - which she wouldn't need to; she'd know where he is.

YOU GAVE ME HOPE!!!!!!!!!! Thank you :)

[chaos is welcome]

I would be thrilled if we don't have to sit through the pain of everyone thinking Oliver is dead. However, I doubt they can pass it up.

[apinknightmare]

I would be thrilled if we don't have to sit through the pain of everyone thinking Oliver is dead. However, I doubt they can pass it up.

 

I think something will happen that will make them actually believe it. Without a body, I'm not sure what this could be, but yeah...they wouldn't turn down the chance at dramatic payoff like that for sure.

[Morrigan2575]

Dar?  Seriously, they hired Dar?  Listen I loved the V Mini-Series (both) as much as the next Sci-Fi gal but Mark Singer isn't the best Sci-Fi actor around.

 

ETA: Yes, I realized I mixed references...but Dar sounds cooler then Mike or Donovan...or Gooder....although if they hired Ham Tyler/Michael Ironside I'd be cool with that.

Edited December 12, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[calliope1975]

I will forgive them if they have a hawk land on his arm. Bonus points if Tanya Roberts shows up.

[Carrie Ann]

Is Oliver really dead on Arrow?! — Janet

You know I can’t answer that. But I can tell you that it sounds like Roy will be stepping up in the wake of Oliver’s absence. “One of the things I was very straight with Colton [Haynes] about is I don’t think we serviced his character quite as much as we would have liked in the first half of the season,” executive producer Marc Guggenheim says. “I’ll say the stuff that he’s got in episodes 10, 11, and 12, it’s pretty dang gangbusters.There’s one scene in episode 11 between him and John Barrowman that I think is some of his finest work on the show.”

Source:

http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/12/12/spoiler-room-arrow-shield-revenge-spoilers/kes me 

 

Looks like Guggenheim is still on his Black Canary Trilogy Say Whaaaaaaaat? Tour. Glad that Roy will have something to do, I guess. But honestly the thought of CH in a scene with JB makes me kinda cringe. I do hope that maybe they'll find a good groove for CH/Roy this season.

[Morrigan2575]

I will forgive them if they have a hawk land on his arm. Bonus points if Tanya Roberts shows up.

I would rather have Kodo and Podo running around the Arrow Cave.  Now if they wanted to get a good actor...John Amos would be kickass as a General...loved him as Admiral Fitzwallace on The West Wing.

 

Back on topic.  I looked up these Creature Commandos and my eye started twitching, it just felt so Marvel (I know DC/Marvel rip each other off but it was odd). 

Edited December 12, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[KirkB]

It's funny, because while I like Marc Singer, I was just thinking what this show needed was MORE characters.

[Danny Franks]

I would be thrilled if we don't have to sit through the pain of everyone thinking Oliver is dead. However, I doubt they can pass it up.

 

If they don't have everyone thinking he's dead, then it was kind of pointless to fake kill him in the first place. But I very much doubt there will be any "epic" reactions to it. Knowing this show, they'll probably look shocked for two and a half seconds before something else happens that they need to deal with, and then get a brief, quiet moment of contemplation at the end of the episode. No time for stuff like character development and emotional resonance on this show, folks.

 

I find the idea of tiny little Roy "stepping up" to be patently ludicrous. But I've not watched any of this season except the crossover, so maybe Roy became super badass and competent. If he did, it's marginally less silly than Laurel becoming that. Either that or Oliver is a million times better at training people than Slade and Shado were.

 

So is it the Roy trilogy now, not the Laurel trilogy? Will they keep telling viewers it's different characters stepping up, until they find one that people actually care about?

[Sunshine]

So someone (per MG's tweet) will doubt Oliver is dead.

 

Hate to point it out but there is nothing in that tweet that says anyone in Starling City doubts it.  Maybe it's Nyssa or The Phantom?   The question is does someone doubt it?  That said I would love it if Felicity put a tracker on him.  She was close enough.  There's probably more drama in Team Arrow thinking he's dead though.  Diggle might be running around dressed as the Arrow.  It would also give Laurel a reason for donning the costume too.  If there are Arrow/Canary sightings the general thugs might be wary.  The only thing SA might have filmed in 3.12 is him walking into the final scene of the episode. Shock....He's alive!!!!! 

[NumberCruncher]

It's funny, because while I like Marc Singer, I was just thinking what this show needed was MORE characters.

Actually it probably does looking at the rate it keeps killing off existing characters.

So is it the Roy trilogy now, not the Laurel trilogy? Will they keep telling viewers it's different characters stepping up, until they find one that people actually care about?

Pretty much.

[Velocity23]

You know what i would enjoy if Laurel & Roy got arrested while trying to be vigilantes. And i need them to show Arsenal flipping himself into dumpster.

[SonofaBiscuit]

Yay, per spoilers, now Arsenal will take center stage in 10, 11, 12!  Oh, these guys.  Hilarious.  I like Roy enough as a background character, but I have no desire to see him or Laurel take center stage.  Like ever.

[DrSpaceman10]

I think the EPs are just going to tease a new character taking center stage every week until the show comes back. They'll probably save Diggle and Felicity for last.

[apinknightmare]

Yay, per spoilers, now Arsenal will take center stage in 10, 11, 12! Oh, these guys. Hilarious. I like Roy enough as a background character, but I have no desire to see him or Laurel take center stage. Like ever.

I actually don't mind Roy for a few eps. I'd watch him over Laurel any day and twice on Sundays. Their marketing is amusing.

Edited December 12, 2014 by apinknightmare

[DrSpaceman10]

Their marketing is amusing.

 

It's pretty funny watching the EPs flail about promoting these episodes (it's really a BC four-part trilogy, it's really NOT a BC four-part trilogy, it's really about Malcolm, it's really about Roy...).

[Belinea]

(it's really a BC four-part trilogy, it's really NOT a BC four-part trilogy, it's really about Malcolm, it's really about Roy...)

So true! But I still believe it will actually be about Laurel. They are just trying to get people to tune in. The only thing I find baffling is how bad they are at promotion sometimes. They know that a lot of their viewers have difficulties with Laurel, they give her the dumbest storylines and then think that once she is in a leather costume people will like her and they would like to watch her doing her thing for three episodes. Then they promote that actual storyline and are probably honestly surprised when people don't want to buy what they are selling. After a while they then have to change their promotion. Couldn't they have seen that one coming?

[Lady Calypso]

I don't mind Roy taking centre stage for three episodes. Diggle would be much preferred but I imagine Diggle would probably be better doing more of the behind the scenes leadership. Roy, on the other hand, had been out on the field with Oliver a lot more and has experience with a bow and arrow, and training with Oliver. I think Roy will just be doing more of the heavy lifting in the field so Diggle can run more things behind the scenes with Felicity. And hey, it's better than Laurel even though I know she'll also have a bigger role.

[NumberCruncher]

But see...that's what kind of pisses me off. Diggle was the one out in the field with Oliver--for two whole seasons--until they decided to shove Roy into the position as Oliver's wingman. Why? Because they were soooo desperate to make "Arsenal" happen since they love their masked heroes so much. Diggle was doing just fine and the audience loves him. So why not make HIM the one taking center stage in Oliver's absence? Oh yeah, because he's now been relegated to daddy status. SMH.

[chaos is welcome]

It's funny, because while I like Marc Singer, I was just thinking what this show needed was MORE characters.

This

They can't handle the ones they have. Sigh. And the flashbacks this year are moving at a snails pace.

Yay, per spoilers, now Arsenal will take center stage in 10, 11, 12!  Oh, these guys.  Hilarious.  I like Roy enough as a background character, but I have no desire to see him or Laurel take center stage.  Like ever.

We know BUckle Canary and Roy are hanging out in the van together. Those scenes should be super fun. Insert sarcastic eyeroll. I am interested in Roy, but not THAT interested.

[calliope1975]

I would not be surprised if after the first Oliver-less episode the marketing becomes "Hey! Look! It's Felicity and Digg. Let's see how they deal with Oliver being dead! Please! Please don't turn off your TV! Oh fuck it, Oliver's alive. You didn't really believe he was dead, right?"

[apinknightmare]

But see...that's what kind of pisses me off. Diggle was the one out in the field with Oliver--for two whole seasons--until they decided to shove Roy into the position as Oliver's wingman. Why? Because they were soooo desperate to make "Arsenal" happen since they love their masked heroes so much. Diggle was doing just fine and the audience loves him. So why not make HIM the one taking center stage in Oliver's absence? Oh yeah, because he's now been relegated to daddy status. SMH.

I have no problem with it. Diggle has always been the backup-he's only been the frontman once, when he went out as Arrow to fool SCPD. I wouldn't expect Diggle to take Oliver's place, regardless of whether he's a father or not.

[NumberCruncher]

I have no problem with it. Diggle has always been the backup-he's only been the frontman once, when he went out as Arrow to fool SCPD. I wouldn't expect Diggle to take Oliver's place, regardless of whether he's a father or not.

That's no different than Roy though. Diggle was right there beside Oliver during a lot of the S1 and S2 action just like Roy is now. Diggle now spends most of his time in the van this season. It sucks.

[ban1o]

Mm where did they say that it will be a Roy trilogy? I thought Guggenheim just said that he will step it up which makes sense as he's a masked vigilante. And Ollie is gone. It makes more sense than Laurel. And stepping up is relative since he's barely had anything to do in the first half.

Edited December 12, 2014 by ban1o

[apinknightmare]

That's no different than Roy though. Diggle was right there beside Oliver during a lot of the S1 and S2 action just like Roy is now. Diggle now spends most of his time in the van this season. It sucks.

It is different than Roy. Roy's been suited up and fighting crime for months. Isn't it natural that he'd continue doing that and Dig would keep on supporting him like he had been when Oliver and then Oliver and Roy were out in the field? Seems to me like it's the status quo, minus one person.

It's not like Diggle didn't spend a ton of time in that van/a car when it was just Oliver.

Edited December 12, 2014 by apinknightmare

[NumberCruncher]

It is different than Roy. Roy's been suited up and fighting crime for months. Isn't it natural that he'd continue doing that and Dig would keep on supporting him like he had been when Oliver and then Oliver and Roy were out in the field? Seems to me like it's the status quo, minus one person.

It's not like Diggle didn't spend a ton of time in that van/a car when it was just Oliver.

No, that's not how things have been progressing. Diggle's role in crime-fighting has definitely been reduced in favor of Roy's transition into Arsenal, but we'll just have to agree to disagree on it.

[apinknightmare]

No, that's not how things have been progressing. Diggle's role in crime-fighting has definitely been reduced in favor of Roy's transition into Arsenal, but we'll just have to agree to disagree on it.

But I'm not arguing that Diggle's role hasn't decreased? It just doesn't make sense to me that his role would change (the costumed hero taking the lead, him being backup), just because Oliver is gone, which is what I thought you were arguing?

[statsgirl]

Okay I will have a BIG problem if Laurel ends up believing Oliver isn't dead with Felicity believing he is. I will cry "FOUL!" like you cannot even believe. Don't even think of going there, writers!

 

I think if anybody should believe that Oliver is really dead, it should be Laurel, and secondarily Roy, who have the least experience of people coming back from the dead.  Then they can go out saving Starling City as vigilantes while Diggle and Felicity work behind the scenes.  Just because Felicity isn't actively looking for Oliver shouldn't mean that she believes he's dead -- maybe she ups the work on the ATOM suit so it can go find him.

 

LOL that they are now promoting 10, 11 and 12 are Roy episodes.  I expect them to come up with stuff for Ray and his suit next.  What did they expect? It's not like people, from critics like Mo Ryan and Alan Sepinwall to ordinary viewers, haven't been saying they watch for O/D/F Team Arrow.

 

I'm in the minority but I'm excited that Marc Singer is coming on. I've had a crush on him since I was a kid.  (And he played Petruchio in the San Francisco Rep Theatre production of Taming of the Shrew which is the one that makes the most sense of a problematic play I've ever seen.)

[Carrie Ann]

I think the thought of Roy taking the lead role in the field over Diggle would have bothered me prior to 301. Diggle decided he wasn't going into the field anymore; everything changed when he became a father. Whether you found that in character or out, that was the decision he made. He went back on it because he felt like Oliver needed him, and he wanted to help find Sara's killer. Frankly, I hope that he realizes now that he is needed on the team, regardless. But I don't see any reason to believe that he would want to take the lead in the field.

 

But I can see the perspective that making Dig a father limited his possibilities in other areas, and that his role on the team has changed, and that some people aren't happy with that change. It's not my number 1 favorite thing either, but I do like the possibilities of making Dig more of a tactical leader on Team Arrow, and Roy more of the on-the-ground backup fighter.

Edited December 12, 2014 by Carrie Ann

[pootlus]

I'll laugh if when Oliver comes back from the dead Laurel is all "But no-one told me he was dead!" and Diggle says "We were worried you might have a heart attack."