Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Mary0360]

If the way people suspect the episodes will play out do play out that way I'm not liking the idea that Oliver prevents Dinah from going after Black Siren and even helps Black Siren escape.

 

One, because I actually liked that Oliver has come to acknowledge that Black Siren is an iredeemable unabashed killer that needs to be stopped and no longer refers to her as Laurel. Essentially I like that Oliver is less of a dumbass. I really don't want them to go back to the stupidly naive "We can try and find our Laurel" Oliver again.

 

Two, because if it plays as Oliver not wanting Dinah to kill to protect her humanity or soul, then that's slightly hypocritical and sexist of Oliver, since he will kill when the need arises or occasion calls for it. Not to mention had Siren killed Felicity, Oliver would not hesitate in putting her down. 

 

I could see Oliver stopping Dinah going after Siren to either take her out or capture her as also perpetuating the OTA vs NTA divide and on this one I'd have to side with Dinah/NTA, and I would really prefer staying on the OTA camp. 

Edited January 29, 2018 by Mary0360

[way2interested]

1 minute ago, Mary0360 said:

Two, because if it plays as Oliver not wanting Dinah to kill to protect her humanity or soul, then that's slightly hypocritical and sexist of Oliver, since he will kill when the need arises or occasion calls for it. Not to mention had Siren killed Felicity, Oliver would not hesitate in putting her down. 

Idk, the way I would see it it would be more of Oliver trying to prevent Dinah from backtracking since going on a kill spree for revenge is exactly what she was doing before she joined the team and she already expressed about how she's glad she moved passed that. It would essentially be Oliver trying to stop someone else from regressing the way he usually does, kind of like what he did in 604 and 607 with Felicity and Diggle.

Not that I'm saying I want it, just that it wouldn't be automatically ridiculous

[Mary0360]

4 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Idk, the way I would see it it would be more of Oliver trying to prevent Dinah from backtracking since going on a kill spree for revenge is exactly what she was doing before she joined the team and she already expressed about how she's glad she moved passed that. It would essentially be Oliver trying to stop someone else from regressing the way he usually does, kind of like what he did in 604 and 607 with Felicity and Diggle.

Not that I'm saying I want it, just that it wouldn't be automatically ridiculous

I understand and get the story beats that could or may be used, and if that's how it plays out I'll tolerate it, but I think it still highlights the shows mixed messages about what is acceptable kills and what is not. Why is Ras or Damien an acceptable or necessary kill but Merlyn or Siren not?

I mean out of show I know that it's because the producers are beholden to contracts but in show I don't like the idea that not only does Oliver stop Dinah from going after someone that has killed multiple people, including someone she loves, but actively lets Siren escape (if that is indeed how the story plays out). To compare, when Oliver killed his Nazi self while Barry let Nazi Reverse Flash live to be able to hurt more people, I felt what Barry did was the biggest wrong then Oliver taking a life. 

[Mellowyellow]

Which spoiler says Oliver is letting BS go? 

Will they share scenes or will hey talk about it from afar?

[Mary0360]

Just now, Mellowyellow said:

Which spoiler says Oliver is letting BS go? 

Will they share scenes or will hey talk about it from afar?

I think someone mentioned up thread that there's a clip of Oliver tying Dinah up which we are assuming is to prevent her from going after Siren. So it's not fact, just speculation on assumption. My bad. 

[way2interested]

1 minute ago, Mary0360 said:

I understand and get the story beats that could or may be used, and if that's how it plays out I'll tolerate it, but I think it still highlights the shows mixed messages about what is acceptable kills and what is not. Why is Ras or Damien an acceptable or necessary kill but Merlyn or Siren not?

That I totally get and agree with, I was just arguing how if they focus on Oliver stopping Dinah from reverting back to her previous self that that's not hypocritical or sexist. The actual point of killing or not killing is different to me. Plus I never like arguing about spec that hasn't been confirmed yet so whatever.

[Mellowyellow]

Just now, Mary0360 said:

I think someone mentioned up thread that there's a clip of Oliver tying Dinah up which we are assuming is to prevent her from going after Siren. So it's not fact, just speculation on assumption. My bad. 

Ahh thanks I got confused! I thought they were squabbling this week and putting someone in danger. 

[Morrigan2575]

5 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Which spoiler says Oliver is letting BS go? 

Will they share scenes or will hey talk about it from afar?

There is no spoiler,  just spec.

I speculated that the scene from the trailer where Oliver has BC tied up and says he's "saving her life" was him stopping BC and BS getting away.

NOT that Oliver is helping BS escape or saving BS. My spec was more along the lines of BC being so out of control with grief that she was making mistakes and nearly getting herself killed. Thus tying her up to save her life, going after BS/James whoever on his own but if it's BS she gets away.

Edited January 29, 2018 by Morrigan2575

[Hiveminder]

1 hour ago, Mary0360 said:

I understand and get the story beats that could or may be used, and if that's how it plays out I'll tolerate it, but I think it still highlights the shows mixed messages about what is acceptable kills and what is not. Why is Ras or Damien an acceptable or necessary kill but Merlyn or Siren not?

I mean out of show I know that it's because the producers are beholden to contracts but in show I don't like the idea that not only does Oliver stop Dinah from going after someone that has killed multiple people, including someone she loves, but actively lets Siren escape (if that is indeed how the story plays out). To compare, when Oliver killed his Nazi self while Barry let Nazi Reverse Flash live to be able to hurt more people, I felt what Barry did was the biggest wrong then Oliver taking a life. 

I think it’s not who you kill, but your state of mind and motivations when you kill them. Killing someone in a rage motivated purely by revenge is different from killing someone because it’s the best option to save lives. It’s about the affect it has on the one who kills, not the person being killed. 

My hope, if this happens, is that BC is not only being driven by revenge but also disregarding her own safety. Thus, the comment about Oliver saving her. 

[jay741982]

On 1/28/2018 at 6:40 PM, Morrigan2575 said:

If they did that, then I'd hope its something totally new. Get rid of all of team baddie in 615, wrap that entire storyline up and, then introduce a while new, totally unrelated Big Bad (maybe what Nyssa is doing). That would be different/new. Getting rid of James just to reveal that Talia or Dragon was pulling the strings all along is the same as S2 with Blood/Slade.

Maybe the new Big Bad turns out to be Joe Wilson. Can't remember his new name though at this time 

[JamieLynn832002]

6 minutes ago, jay741982 said:

Maybe the new Big Bad turns out to be Joe Wilson. Can't remember his new name though at this time 

I could see that but I'm not sure if the DC embargo on Slade would effect their ability to use Joe. I think Joe's new name was Kane Wolfman or something like that.

[statsgirl]

Joe doesn't have a reason to go after Oliver that hard, even when Slade was in ARGUS prison. This is very targeted to Oliver (again).

[EmilyBettFan]

It's really bad no one seems to deserve to be titled big bad apart from Cayden James initially. Now everyone just seems sub-par.

[BkWurm1]

21 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

@BkWurm1 you post there. This person. Have any cred?

ETA: I seriously hope not. I'd rather they make Talia the Big Bad then try to bring Lame Ass Ra's back. He sucked, big time.

 

18 hours ago, way2interested said:

This and the whole "SPOILERS IF TRUE" style of posting (plus they were only spoiling Nyssa coming back and then saying it was a "rumor" and that "people are speculating") make me think this is a whole lot of nothing.

The guy that was posting the "spoiler" has never been a source of information.  From what he posted I really do think he was just repeating speculation purely based on the Nyssa spoiler.  Personally I think it's spec that is no more likely to be true than Robert coming back to life and trying to teach Oliver some kind of lesson by framing him for Cayden's son.  

[tv echo]

So after reading Johann Urb's ScreenRant intervew (just posted in the New Spoilers thread), I think that whoever upthread said that the Vince-Dinah story arc is like a mini redo of what Oliver-Laurel's love story was supposed to be is right. However, if the reddit spoiler is correct, Vince dies in tonight's episode (I wonder if he'll have a death scene lying amidst building rubble that's reminiscent of Tommy's death scene?)...

Quote

“I think the history that he has with the Green Arrow, and really the history that he has with Dinah, played a huge part in which way Vigilante is going and turning, because there’s real love there and I think there has been kind of an awakening in him when [he] was unmasked. I think their love and memories have played a big part in the way things have been going in terms of [his] allegiances.”

https://screenrant.com/arrow-vigilante-black-canary-relationship/
https://screenrant.com/arrow-vigilante-past-explored/

Edited February 1, 2018 by tv echo

[apinknightmare]

I wonder if their love and memories played a big part in him knocking her out to keep from getting arrested. 

[Morrigan2575]

46 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I wonder if their love and memories played a big part in him knocking her out to keep from getting arrested. 

According to Ben Percy and AJK (main complaint from his GA/BC title run) violence is the sign of true love, at least as far as Superheros goes.

[Guest]

I can’t adequately convey how much I don’t care about Vigilante and Dinah and their love story. Tonight’s episode is gonna be tough to get through. ?

[Chaser]

I think the entire Vigilante storyline was a big letdown, but I will say the actor wasn't bad. I'm kind of disappointed they didn't give him a better role.

50 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

I can’t adequately convey how much I don’t care about Vigilante and Dinah and their love story. Tonight’s episode is gonna be tough to get through. ?

At least if the spoilers are correct, he exits after this episode. I wasn't looking forward to the next few episodes (apart from Roy), but I found the silver lining. With Vigilante gone in 6x12, the big bird showdown in 6x14 and BS laid up in an Argus hospital in 6x15, it wraps up Dinahs storylines. That's a positive for me.

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I think the entire Vigilante storyline was a big letdown, but I will say the actor wasn't bad. I'm kind of disappointed they didn't give him a better role.

At least if the spoilers are correct, he exits after this episode. I wasn't looking forward to the next few episodes (apart from Roy), but I found the silver lining. With Vigilante gone in 6x12, the big bird showdown in 6x14 and BS laid up in an Argus hospital in 6x15, it wraps up Dinahs storylines. That's a positive for me.

I still think Vigilante should’ve been someone we knew from an earlier season. Connecting him to Dinah just ruined any interest I had. 

And him getting killed by BS just drags up this BC vs BS storyline and makes their weird rivalry or whatever it is personal, so we’re just gonna have them squawking at each other again. Oh joy. 

But fingers crossed it is wrapped up soon! 

Edited February 1, 2018 by Guest

[statsgirl]

I've read comments about how great the BC vs B'S fights are. I don't get it.

And while logically I can see that the  grest love story of Dinah and Vince should tug at my heart strings, they haven't given me enough on Vince and his motivations and I'm fed up with Dinah at this point.

I agree that Vince would have engaged me more of he had been tied to another character. Maybe Diggle. Or Quentin.

[Morrigan2575]

I really liked the last 2 episodes and, I'm pretty excited for tonight. I want to see how it all plays out compared to my previous spec.

[insomniadreams88]

I'd still rather Vigilante/Dinah stuff - especially since it seems like 612 is his last episode - than any more digs from Curtis or Rene to/about OTA. If I have to hear one more "we don't need your help" or "this doesn't change anything" or anything along those lines... 

[Cleanqueen]

I like Vince and Dinah together, It was nice seeing Dinah smile and be happy in those scenes with Vince, it added a little depth to her character. I also like the actor. But yeah, having him die one episode after we find out hes a double agent is just stupid and lazy writing on the writer's part. And the audience wont really feel for her loss if we see her cry over him as he dies.

[Guest]

The guy was trying to kill Oliver last season though so I’m not really gonna feel anything for him or Dinah tbh. But maybe that’s just me. ?

[SmallScreenDiva]

20 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

The guy was trying to kill Oliver last season though so I’m not really gonna feel anything for him or Dinah tbh. But maybe that’s just me. ?

Nope, not just you. I can't get into Vince knowing he tried to kill Oliver several times last season, plus the whole collateral damage bit. And my already low estimation of Dinah just sunk even lower after she just ignored that. Plus, I really can't with Juliana's overacting, even in quiet scenes with Vince. She's trying too hard to make something happen.

I'm dreading her confrontation with Oliver because she's horrible at these kinds of scenes.

[Velocity23]

[insomniadreams88]

Vince: "It's a good thing I heal fast."

That should be news to everyone except Dinah, right? Or will they just totally ignore it?

(Also, I feel like we might get lots of references to Vince "healing fast" in the episode, to foreshadow his death - whether it sticks or not.) 

[KenyaJ]

2 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I really liked the last 2 episodes and, I'm pretty excited for tonight. I want to see how it all plays out compared to my previous spec.

I really liked the last two episodes too, but I'm not nearly as excited for tonights, just because it looks to be NoTA heavy, and I don't even like seeing them on my screen anymore. It was fine last week when I could FF through most of their scenes, but obviously I can't do that when they're with OTA. Dammit. 

On another note, I've been thinking about this quote a lot over the past few weeks:

SA: "When I feel like there's an elephant in the room in terms of story not being told. There's been a big part of - I can't reveal it, but there's been a big part that sort of existed for me in episode 10, 11, and we're filming 12 right now? We're finishing up 11. Um, and I addressed that with the writers, like, okay, this has gone past the point of being a elephant in the room. This is something I feel we need to expand upon. And we normally do. So I think we'll get to that eventually." (HVFF-Atlanta, Nov. 19, 2017)

Any idea the elephant in the room was? A few weeks ago, I was thinking that it might have been the secret he was keeping from William, but that was only an issue last week and not in 610. I'm stumped.

[ladylaw99]

Thank goodness for Felicity or these noobs wouldn't know what to do.

[apinknightmare]

33 minutes ago, KenyaJ said:

 

Any idea the elephant in the room was? A few weeks ago, I was thinking that it might have been the secret he was keeping from William, but that was only an issue last week and not in 610. I'm stumped.

Any chance it’s the fact that the newbies are a bunch of hypocrites?

 

 

lmao I know, I know. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

Well, they haven't gone back to Rene's betrayal and the possibility of Oliver getting charged and imprisoned ... but I figured that was always going to be addressed with the prosecutor coming back. So yeah, I'm at a loss as to what the elephant in the room could be. That the newbs are proved to be completely unnecessary?

[Guest]

Maybe it's that they're not addressing the fact that OTA have six years of history working together and so the newbies have no right to behave the way they do? You can't just join a team and expect instant trust. Because I feel like that's not really been explored yet. Otherwise I have no idea. 

[Velocity23]

[strikera0]

Has this been posted yet:

Quote

Question: I need some scoop onArrow‘s Curtis Holt/Mr. Terrific. Might Paul make a reappearance? —Stephanie
Ausiello: “I definitely hope so. I really like Curtis and Paul’s relationship, there’s a lot of love there,” Echo Kellum answers. “But I do feel like Curtis needs to ‘play the field’ in a different sense right now — to kind of do his own thing and find out where he needs to be in life. He’s dealing with too many breakups recently! I definitely want to see him out there making strides in his own world, not necessarily needing someone else.”

http://tvline.com/2018/01/31/this-is-us-super-bowl-episode-boston-philadelphia-markets-start-time/

 

Edited February 1, 2018 by strikera0

[Guest]

Does anyone want to see Curtis playing the field because NO THANK YOU GOODBYE. ? ? ?

[strikera0]

4 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

 

Dinah/Vincent flashbacks? Yeah, he's totally going to die. 

[kes0704]

That’s a hard pass for anything that might put MORE of Curtis on my screen. ?‍♀️

[apinknightmare]

Curtis needs to get his shit together before he brings someone else into his whiny, hypocritical mess of a life. 

[insomniadreams88]

First of all, we have enough Curtis as it is, I don't need to see anything about his love life, especially after his attitude in 609 about love and Oliver/Felicity. Although, if he could fall for some guy out of town and the guy refuses to move to Star City and Curtis leaves... yeah, I could accept that as a storyline for him.

And we don't even need the spoiler about Vince dying in 612, thanks to the sneak peeks. Flashback/mention of his healing = death. It's like checking items off a list. Flashback, check. Risky mission, check. Mention of healing abilities, check. Likely not a completely bad guy, check. Death scene ... wait about 30ish minutes, then check. (Of course, it may not stick, but at the very least, he's getting a death scene and Dinah's likely going to think he's dead if he survives, hence her determination to go after Black Siren.) 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

First of all, we have enough Curtis as it is, I don't need to see anything about his love life, especially after his attitude in 609 about love and Oliver/Felicity. Although, if he could fall for some guy out of town and the guy refuses to move to Star City and Curtis leaves... yeah, I could accept that as a storyline for him.

In that case I can't wait for Curtis to date and find a man so he can move far far away and never come back. Hurry up and meet yo man, Curtis!

(If his name is Death, even better. ?)

[thegirlsleuth]

I wonder if Echo anonymously submitted the question.

[Morrigan2575]

I'd trade Curtis for Paul. I liked Paul, good guy. Only issue was the constant confusion over Show Paul and Actor Paul (show Lance). Paul's going to die I just know it...wait which Paul?

1 hour ago, KenyaJ said:

I really liked the last two episodes too, but I'm not nearly as excited for tonights, just because it looks to be NoTA heavy, and I don't even like seeing them on my screen anymore. It was fine last week when I could FF through most of their scenes, but obviously I can't do that when they're with OTA. Dammit. 

 

I get it which is why I'm glad the Live Chat is working tonight so I can get super snarky and bitchy at the Noobs tonight.

[lemotomato]

7 hours ago, tv echo said:

From the print issue of next week's TV Guide (Feb. 5-18, 2018, Double Issue), in its "What's Worth Watching" section - description of next week's Arrow episode (613)...

THURSDAY, FEB. 8
*  *  *
Arrow
9/8c, The CW
A little knowledge can be dangerous, so just think of how lethal Cayden James (Michael Emerson) is going to be after he uncovers a secret about the Green Arrow that is so monumental, Oliver may even have to call on his old squad to help him out.

Since this is right before Roy comes back, I'm guessing that Cayden James figures out that Oliver was also the Hood/Arrow and not just GA?

[Belinea]

Is Echo the only one doing interviews these days? Because it really feels like that...

Edited February 1, 2018 by Belinea

[way2interested]

3 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

Since this is right before Roy comes back, I'm guessing that Cayden James figures out that Oliver was also the Hood/Arrow and not just GA?

Technically Roy comes back in 615 not 614 so it might not be immediate enough, but I was thinking something like that too. Although I wasn't sure how it would "push him over the edge" or whatever.

[tv echo]

25 minutes ago, Belinea said:

Is Echo the only one doing interviews these days? Because it really feels like that...

Michael Emerson did a few interviews. And then there's the recent one by Johann Urb. 

Of course, EBR did a bunch of interviews, but that was in connection with Funny Story at Slamdance.

Edited February 1, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

From today's EW article...

Quote

There’s no way we can trust Vigilante on Arrow, right? — Kennedy
I wouldn’t, but that’s just me. While I can’t give you a definitive answer on that one, here’s what executive producer Marc Guggenheim provided when I posed your Q: “That question is what provides a lot of the dramatic tension of the next couple of episodes.”

If Vince dies tonight, then why would this issue extend past 612?

Edited February 1, 2018 by tv echo

[Velocity23]

1 minute ago, tv echo said:

From today's EW article...

If Vince dies tonight, then why would this issue extend past 612?

Maybe its the case of Natalie reusing old interviews.

[Morrigan2575]

4 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Maybe its the case of Natalie reusing old interviews.

That was my first thought. They could also be talking about the fallout from his death or maybe he provides information before his death that people are uncertain about.