Spoiler Discussion Thread

[insomniadreams88]

I saw that the CW released another BC video. After the premiere airs and they stop pretending no other characters exist, I don’t want to see any promo for BS or BC for a while. 

[Primal Slayer]

11 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

They're really not hiding the fact that Samantha is dead, are they? I just don't know why they had to kill her off just to force Oliver and William into a father/son relationship.

Because they don't want to kill off any character that the audience could have even the slightest compassion for. But watch her come back and it be revealed that she's been kidnapped this entire time by Season 7.

[leopardprint]

Just now, Primal Slayer said:

Because they don't want to kill off any character that the audience could have even the slightest compassion for. But watch her come back and it be revealed that she's been kidnapped this entire time by Season 7.

Perhaps when they get tired of Myson and need to ship him off somewhere? I guess he could go to conferences with Thea. 

[insomniadreams88]

Guys, no, we got it all wrong. Samantha will be presumed dead. Then she’ll come back as the new BC at the end of the season. And she’ll turn out to be Laurel and Sara’s half-sister, so she’ll be a Lance and her middle name will be revealed to be Dinah. 

[Primal Slayer]

7 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Guys, no, we got it all wrong. Samantha will be presumed dead. Then she’ll come back as the new BC at the end of the season. And she’ll turn out to be Laurel and Sara’s half-sister, so she’ll be a Lance and her middle name will be revealed to be Dinah. 

[LeighAn]

31 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Guys, no, we got it all wrong. Samantha will be presumed dead. Then she’ll come back as the new BC at the end of the season. And she’ll turn out to be Laurel and Sara’s half-sister, so she’ll be a Lance and her middle name will be revealed to be Dinah. 

Admit it- you've been secretly writing for comic book.com this whole time haven't you? :P

[LeighAn]

47 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

I saw that the CW released another BC video. After the premiere airs and they stop pretending no other characters exist, I don’t want to see any promo for BS or BC for a while. 

Just watched it. I find the title interesting. "Black Canary Now and Forever". 

[statsgirl]

9 hours ago, LeighAn said:

Yeah nah she's not getting redeemed. And if she is I don't think it's going to be in the way her fans are hoping/predicting- she joins the team and becomes bffs/lover with Oliver. If she gets redeemed at this point I think it will be to wrap her villain arch up and ship her off back to Earth 2 land. 

Maybe they'll spend the most of the season as her as villain and then redeem her in the last quarter and she ends up going to Earth2 to help whichever speedsters Barry left there.

2 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I'm calling that Oliver will find a secret video that Robert left behind about being a father. I don't see why Oliver would need advice about fatherhood when by all accounts he had a decent father who was there for his kids until Malcolm sunk the boat. Sure Robert was involved in shady things and Oliver was a douchebag as an older teenager and in college but it didn't seem like Robert and Moira were bad parents.  I don't remember anything about them not being around for their kids. Or am I forgetting some big plot point?

They were both lax and overly indulgent parents.  Oliver had to give Moira a talking-to in season 1 about how she's hurting Thea by not parenting her properly.

[thegirlsleuth]

I am in the middle of the cutting the cord process so don't have a way to watch the finale again, but can anyone remind me why Canary and Siren are the two characters that are 100 percent confirmed alive, and not just because the show runners announced that Katie and Juliana had renewed contracts for Season 6?  Was there an in show reason the two are assumed to have survived as opposed to anyone else?

[Guest]

RE the new promo pics for 602. Are we sure the show isn't called Black Canary and Buddies? 

? ? ?  Sorry. I had to. 

Seriously though. This is getting really annoying now. I hate this dumbass cliffhanger so much.

[catrox14]

6 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Maybe they'll spend the most of the season as her as villain and then redeem her in the last quarter and she ends up going to Earth2 to help whichever speedsters Barry left there.

They were both lax and overly indulgent parents.  Oliver had to give Moira a talking-to in season 1 about how she's hurting Thea by not parenting her properly.

That happened after Robert and Oliver went missing and after Oliver came back from the dead and Thea was struggling. We don't know if they were always lax or overindulgent parents when they were Myson's age which is what I was referring to, not that I know of.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, thegirlsleuth said:

I am in the middle of the cutting the cord process so don't have a way to watch the finale again, but can anyone remind me why Canary and Siren are the two characters that are 100 percent confirmed alive, and not just because the show runners announced that Katie and Juliana had renewed contracts for Season 6?  Was there an in show reason the two are assumed to have survived as opposed to anyone else?

There's no in show reason at all. 

[insomniadreams88]

4 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

RE the new promo pics for 602. Are we sure the show isn't called Black Canary and Buddies? 

? ? ?  Sorry. I had to. 

Seriously though. This is getting really annoying now. I hate this dumbass cliffhanger so much.

It is ridiculous that we got 1 photo of Oliver/GA and 3 of BC. 

[JamieLynn832002]

4 minutes ago, thegirlsleuth said:

I am in the middle of the cutting the cord process so don't have a way to watch the finale again, but can anyone remind me why Canary and Siren are the two characters that are 100 percent confirmed alive, and not just because the show runners announced that Katie and Juliana had renewed contracts for Season 6?  Was there an in show reason the two are assumed to have survived as opposed to anyone else?

No, Black Siren was last seen knocked unconscious so if anything there's less reason to assume she survived than anyone else. And Dinah was with everyone else. The only thing I can come up with is maybe their meta-powers include healing/invulnerability but that's never been shown to be knowledge.

[thegirlsleuth]

5 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

There's no in show reason at all. 

That's what I thought but I wasn't 100 percent sure..  And Rick Gonzalez had his contract announced at the same time and yet he isn't included in the "definitely alive" group.  So they made a very specific choice to announce that the two birds were alive--as opposed to any of the other characters who were in danger--and built all their season 6 PR around them. 

Great decision making, Arrow PR.

[Mellowyellow]

Wasn't there lots of talk that they signed the contract with KC for...reasons. Perhaps these "reasons" ensure that she is not dead/cannot be killed hence popping up in promos everywhere.

Don't know about BC though! 

[insomniadreams88]

9 minutes ago, thegirlsleuth said:

I am in the middle of the cutting the cord process so don't have a way to watch the finale again, but can anyone remind me why Canary and Siren are the two characters that are 100 percent confirmed alive, and not just because the show runners announced that Katie and Juliana had renewed contracts for Season 6?  Was there an in show reason the two are assumed to have survived as opposed to anyone else?

The problem with this logic is RG was announced as a series regular for S6 at the same time as JH, but it seems like everyone - including the EPs? - forgot that. 

I think it's honestly because they wanted to promote Dinah as the new BC over the summer, so that's why she was confirmed.

As for BS... uh, no idea. And no idea why all this promotion for her either. (It's bordering on ridiculous at this point.) Unless Chase didn't put any bombs under the temple where she was last seen unconscious? Though a promo does show someone walking up to her unconscious body, so it seems like that'll be explained.

[strikera0]

12 minutes ago, thegirlsleuth said:

I am in the middle of the cutting the cord process so don't have a way to watch the finale again, but can anyone remind me why Canary and Siren are the two characters that are 100 percent confirmed alive, and not just because the show runners announced that Katie and Juliana had renewed contracts for Season 6?  Was there an in show reason the two are assumed to have survived as opposed to anyone else?

Well, according to Marc, Dinah was confirmed to be alive because the show can't afford to kill off another Canary and Black Siren because they wouldn't bring back KC only to kill her off again. 

[Mellowyellow]

Are they shooting the wedding RIGHT NOW???

When are those pictures going to surface??!!!!!

I cannot wait any longer! 

[LeighAn]

9 minutes ago, thegirlsleuth said:

I am in the middle of the cutting the cord process so don't have a way to watch the finale again, but can anyone remind me why Canary and Siren are the two characters that are 100 percent confirmed alive, and not just because the show runners announced that Katie and Juliana had renewed contracts for Season 6?  Was there an in show reason the two are assumed to have survived as opposed to anyone else?

Pretty much because the CW made the startling truly surprising shock horror discovery that they had lost their female demo in the last year per the Network Presidents words (seriously no idea how that happened) so they are trying to woo the female audience back and improve their female share. One attempt is by ordering pilots like Dallas and Valor. Im assuming pushing Black Canary and Black Siren as female badasses is another attempt to encourage female eyeballs.

 

They probably talked to like five whole women and watched Mel Gibson What Women Want when coming up with this new strategy so I'm sure it will be a rousing success. 

[thegirlsleuth]

Just now, insomniadreams88 said:

The problem with this logic is RG was announced as a series regular for S6 at the same time as JH, but it seems like everyone - including the EPs? - forgot that. 

I think it's honestly because they wanted to promote Dinah as the new BC over the summer, so that's why she was confirmed.

As for BS... uh, no idea. And no idea why all this promotion for her either. (It's bordering on ridiculous at this point.) Unless Chase didn't put any bombs under the temple where she was last seen unconscious? Though a promo does show someone walking up to her unconscious body, so it seems like that'll be explained.

Yeah, if Rick was included on the alive list I would have assumed it was for contract announcement reasons, and I do get your point @strikera0 that they can't kill ANOTHER canary, but their "well, we can only talk about Siren and Canary in the promos" logic falls apart when you consider that there was absolutely no plot reason that the two should have lived when everyone else died. 

[Primal Slayer]

They couldn't go completely silent so they had to choose some to promote. DD hadn't gotten a costume yet so thats always a major talking point and KC came back to the show full time after a year which is also another major talking point.

As WM said though, they didn't think this cliffhanger through from a PR standpoint and their PR work is as weak as their actual writing game. They going to go through all of this hassle only for no one from the cast to actually be dead. At least TWD killed off a major character in the end so it made actual sense. 

[Velocity23]

I would think WB/CW are responsible for the promo push for certain characters. 

[lemotomato]

That's a bold strategy. Let's see if it pays off for them.

[SmallScreenDiva]

18 minutes ago, thegirlsleuth said:

I am in the middle of the cutting the cord process so don't have a way to watch the finale again, but can anyone remind me why Canary and Siren are the two characters that are 100 percent confirmed alive, and not just because the show runners announced that Katie and Juliana had renewed contracts for Season 6?  Was there an in show reason the two are assumed to have survived as opposed to anyone else?

No reason other than the WB really wanting to sell some merchandise of women in leather, I think. That's the only reason I can think of for the heavy sell for BS and BC. Because all these promos? They don't make a fuck ton of sense. DTinah is not a draw as BC. KC has never been one, otherwise the show wouldn't have killed her off at all. And yet almost every promo/video featurette has been about them, moreso than the actual lead of the show. 

21 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

RE the new promo pics for 602. Are we sure the show isn't called Black Canary and Buddies? 

I dare you to post that on the Arrow Facebook page ;)

[LeighAn]

5 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

As WM said though, they didn't think this cliffhanger through from a PR standpoint and their PR work is as weak as their actual writing game. They going to go through all of this hassle only for no one from the cast to actually be dead. At least TWD killed off a major character in the end so it made actual sense. 

As Marc has said multiple times the writers don't control PR/Marketing that's set by The CW and the CW has chosen to stick hard to the "They're all dead except the certain characters we feel we need to push for whatever agenda driven decision".

[insomniadreams88]

2 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

moreso than the actual lead of the show. 

You know, I’m going to hope that this is because they’re not being stupid and acting like Felicity and Diggle are dead until the final minutes of the premiere and they’re in most of Oliver’s scenes which is why we’re stuck watching that “bad man” clip over and over. 

I’m probably wrong. 

[Primal Slayer]

2 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

As Marc has said multiple times the writers don't control PR/Marketing that's set by The CW and the CW has chosen to stick hard to the "They're all dead except the certain characters we feel we need to push for whatever agenda driven decision".

I dont know if CW put an embargo on them saying they cant say who is dead and who survived. I am sure that part is all MG/WM. And WM herself said they didn't think it through so obviously it isn't all CW. 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

I dare you to post that on the Arrow Facebook page ;)

I don't have a FB anymore but someone else is welcome to post it. ?  ?

[LeighAn]

34 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

I dont know if CW put an embargo on them saying they cant say who is dead and who survived. I am sure that part is all MG/WM. And WM herself said they didn't think it through so obviously it isn't all CW. 

Both Natalie and Matt implied/outright implied that there was an embargo on discussing anything except Slade BS BC and Oliver/William.

[Primal Slayer]

If MG or WM wanted to speak about the characters they could. CW isn't trying to keep Felicity a secret and David runs his mouth off any about spoilers left and right.

[insomniadreams88]

Yeah, I don’t get announcing Felicity will be on The Flash and then going, “we don’t know her fate on Arrow.” They should have just confirmed she’s alive. 

Then again, they’re also talking about Felicity and Diggle’s storylines in S6 to the same people who can’t ask about them. Didn’t TVLine reveal the stuff about the name of Felicity’s company? Yet they couldn’t ask about her for the preview piece? 

[tv echo]

Chastity Dotson is a 40-year-old American actress (height: 5'5")...

IMDb - http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0234554/#self
Twtter - https://twitter.com/itschasdotson

[Velocity23]

Quote

What kind of energy does newbie Michael Emerson bring to the show?

We’re super thrilled to have him. He’s been tremendous and brings so much to the role and has all these ideas and he’s just been a great, collaborative partner in the process of figuring out his character. His character is definitely going to be a bad guy and is a bad guy we haven’t seen on the show before, I think it’s safe to say he’s really going to give Oliver and Felicity in particular a run for their money. He’s very soft-spoken. He’s very intelligent. And all of that is different than any of the villains we’ve had on the show in the past.

So excited about Michael Emerson. 

[way2interested]

1 minute ago, Velocity23 said:

So excited about Michael Emerson. 

So is WM. She's so excited she forgot to talk about the season without revealing who lives and who dies!

Quote

Having some kind of physical consequence to say, running through a bomb, might have something to do with it. It’s war. It brings, in a very grounded way, the reality of what they do.

That might be whatever happens to Diggle.

Quote

There’s going to be something big that happens in the premiere that is going to certainly cast some doubt on his ability to continue to do that job, but, it’s a world that we like and that we think has worked on the show well.

And that's got to be either the investigation of him being GA going public or him being revealed as GA.

Quote

What kind of energy does newbie Michael Emerson bring to the show?

We’re super thrilled to have him. He’s been tremendous and brings so much to the role and has all these ideas and he’s just been a great, collaborative partner in the process of figuring out his character. His character is definitely going to be a bad guy and is a bad guy we haven’t seen on the show before, I think it’s safe to say he’s really going to give Oliver and Felicity in particular a run for their money. He’s very soft-spoken. He’s very intelligent. And all of that is different than any of the villains we’ve had on the show in the past.

And then, finally, why is ME's character like even a bigger secret than the people who live or die? I love how every hint/snippet of his character just point him more towards being Cayden James and Felicity's direct villain

[insomniadreams88]

ME’s character is going to give Felicity a run for her money ... yet they refuse to just confirm she’s alive. Good job, WM. 

If he’s not Cayden James, that might be the biggest surprise of the season. 

[leopardprint]

The way they have half-assed this "Tune-in to see who survived" while "So and so might be dead but also here is their storyline for the season" does not inspire confidence in S6. 

[insomniadreams88]

I still think they should’ve shown the audience some of the survivors and just kept Oliver in the dark about everyone. 

[Sunshine]

Didn’t MG say we would recognize Vigilante? If so, why would they sort of be going through the casting process per WM?

Did WM also “confirm” that Felicity would be helping William with his math homework? She mentioned math homework as one of things Oliver has to deal with in adjusting to parenthood. SA said Felicity being good at math was important at one of the cons.

Edited October 7, 2017 by Sunshine

[way2interested]

Just now, leopardprint said:

The way they have half-assed this "Tune-in to see who survived" while "So and so might be dead but also here is their storyline for the season" does not inspire confidence in S6. 

Where did WM do that in this interview?

[strikera0]

5 hours ago, Sunshine said:

Didn’t MG say we would recognize Vigilante? If so, why would they sort of be going through the casting process per WM?

He did. Them sort of going through the casting process could mean that they have opted to recast the original actor now that the character is going to play a bigger role than originally intended. A similar thing happened with Sara Lance, who was originally played by a soap opera actress before she was eventually replaced by Caity Lotz. 

Edited October 8, 2017 by strikera0

[statsgirl]

If they recast, it's going to be harder to see him as someone who was on the show in s1.  For Sara Lance, it was just a couple of brief scenes.

21 hours ago, catrox14 said:

That happened after Robert and Oliver went missing and after Oliver came back from the dead and Thea was struggling. We don't know if they were always lax or overindulgent parents when they were Myson's age which is what I was referring to, not that I know of.

Oliver told Moira that she couldn't let Thea go without parental guidance the way they had let him grow up.  As for Robert, he really didn't give more than a fig about Oliver having Laurel's sister aboard for a sex cruise other than to say it isn't going to end well and instead of grounding Oliver for getting kicked out of his fourth college, they let him go on a cruise "with the old man".  

Teenage Oliver went off the rails into drinking and peeing on a cop's car, suggesting either some trauma (which we got no hint of) or a huge lack of parental involvement.  Robert's final tapes, telling Oliver to right his wrongs and Thea to take care of Oliver, is a burden no caring parent should put on his child.

Between the many hints that Robert and Moira were overly-indulgent and not involved parents and no suggestion that they ever disciplined their kids, I'd be surprised if the good parenting advice for Oliver came from Robert.

[SmallScreenDiva]

2 hours ago, Velocity23 said:

I think it’s safe to say he’s really going to give Oliver and Felicity in particular a run for their money.

I'm not the only one reading this as "Felicity in particular," and not "Oliver and Felicity," am I? I wonder how Wendy said this.

[catrox14]

7 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

If they recast, it's going to be harder to see him as someone who was on the show in s1.  For Sara Lance, it was just a couple of brief scenes.

Oliver told Moira that she couldn't let Thea go without parental guidance the way they had let him grow up.  As for Robert, he really didn't give more than a fig about Oliver having Laurel's sister aboard for a sex cruise other than to say it isn't going to end well and instead of grounding Oliver for getting kicked out of his fourth college, they let him go on a cruise "with the old man".  

Teenage Oliver went off the rails into drinking and peeing on a cop's car, suggesting either some trauma (which we got no hint of) or a huge lack of parental involvement.  Robert's final tapes, telling Oliver to right his wrongs and Thea to take care of Oliver, is a burden no caring parent should put on his child.

Between the many hints that Robert and Moira were overly-indulgent and not involved parents and no suggestion that they ever disciplined their kids, I'd be surprised if the good parenting advice for Oliver came from Robert.

Ah thanks for that information. I didn't remember any of those things. One thing on Robert's tapes to Oliver wasn't that for an adult Oliver not a child Oliver?

[Guest]

Nice to see them talking about Michael Emerson. Finally! I'm pretty sure he is Cayden James but I do find it strange how they're holding that back. 

Weird they're only just casting Vigilante when we were told it would be someone we've already seen. I'm guessing that means we've probably only seen him once or twice and when his identity is revealed, another character will just remind us who that is. Haha.

Edited October 7, 2017 by Guest

[way2interested]

22 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

I'm not the only one reading this as "Felicity in particular," and not "Oliver and Felicity," am I? I wonder how Wendy said this.

At first I took it as that, like "Oliver because he's the lead and everything has to come back to him but really Felicity in particular," but now that you pointed it out, it being "Oliver and Felicity collectively in particular," it's throwing me off. I'm going to go with the first one though with the whole group of villains/villain for every character thing.

Although with James being for Felicity and then Dragon maybe being for Diggle (if Diggle does something to him or something regarding him being GA), I wonder if they'll play it off with Diggle and Felicity technically creating their own villains and then Oliver having to be the one to bounce off of that for them.

[statsgirl]

I think Wendy meant it as "Oliver and Felicity in particular" as opposed to Diggle or Dinah or Rene or Curtis.  Please, not Curtis as it's probably Cayden James and Curtis does hacking too.

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

Ah thanks for that information. I didn't remember any of those things. One thing on Robert's tapes to Oliver wasn't that for an adult Oliver not a child Oliver?

22 year old Oliver and 12 year old Thea.

It's possible Robert was a great dad to Oliver when he was younger.  It would be an interesting twist if the advice comes from him.

[leopardprint]

2 hours ago, way2interested said:

Where did WM do that in this interview?

Didn't they publish an interview with WM yesterday about how they couldn't talk about a lot of storylines because of the cliffhanger? Or was that MG? 

[way2interested]

10 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

Didn't they publish an interview with WM yesterday about how they couldn't talk about a lot of storylines because of the cliffhanger? Or was that MG? 

This interview. The one that went up today. WM said that it was hard to go into detail at SDCC about the themes because it wasn't revealed what happened in 601 yet and then said that not everyone died but that will be made clear in 601 but that the people who survived have consequences. Then she mentioned Oliver and Felicity in terms of ME's character. This one wasn't her saying '"Tune-in to see who survived" while "So and so might be dead but also here is their storyline for the season'" If anything, if she didn't say "Felicity," or she would have nothing specific about any of the "up in the air" characters. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

Just now, SmallScreenDiva said:

Repeats "Felicity is good at math" spoiler.

Coupled with Wendy's mention of math homework could it mean Felicity will be tutoring Myson?