Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Velocity23]

10 minutes ago, Trisha said:

They did -- and then Oliver gave that final speech about putting BS in a nearby Argus facility: "I'm keeping her close because if there's anything left of the real Laurel in there, I'm going to find it." 

But then she was instrumental in the kidnapping of his own team and son. She did not take any steps to protect Lance. 

[tofutan]

1 hour ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

Experiences are exactly what shape us in the person we are. There are plenty of people that share traits but that one, unique person is special to me. Without that it's someone else, a stranger. I get if they play it like they have a hard time hurting her (even if Lance and Felicity had no problem) because looking at her they are reminded of the person they lost but in no way because that person kind of is Laurel, because she isn't.

That's how it might play out in real life, but these shows are basically fantasy fairy tales and they love playing with this idea that certain elements of a characters stay constant across universes. 

I don't want the show to just grab BS and slot her into Laurel's place and it would be really gross if they basically "adopted" her back into the family. but some amount of nostalgia, like an echo makes a lot of sense. Especially since I don't think that they have any intention of exploring E2 Laurel as truly her own character, with them getting to know her and learning to appreciate her for herself, with all the ways she's different from E1 Laurel. 

I think a redemption story or tragic villain story that echoes E1 Laurel and either has a sad or bittersweet ending (like E2 Laurel realizing she needs to leave this earth and find her luck elsewhere) makes the most sense for the setup. Or they could find out that there really is nothing Laurel like to her at all, but even that story is more effective if they keep hoping and trying for a long time only to be disappointed and screwed over in the end as BS dashes their hopes and tells them to suck it. 

[insomniadreams88]

Just now, Velocity23 said:

She did not take any steps to protect Lance. 

This is what I didn't get at all. She said that she ensured his safety, right? By leaving him to fend for himself on an island full of people trying to kill the entire team? If Chase had really promised her that Lance would be safe, Lance would have been left in Star City. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

51 minutes ago, tofutan said:

That's how it might play out in real life, but these shows are basically fantasy fairy tales and they love playing with this idea that certain elements of a characters stay constant across universes. 

I don't want the show to just grab BS and slot her into Laurel's place and it would be really gross if they basically "adopted" her back into the family. but some amount of nostalgia, like an echo makes a lot of sense. Especially since I don't think that they have any intention of exploring E2 Laurel as truly her own character, with them getting to know her and learning to appreciate her for herself, with all the ways she's different from E1 Laurel. 

I think a redemption story or tragic villain story that echoes E1 Laurel and either has a sad or bittersweet ending (like E2 Laurel realizing she needs to leave this earth and find her luck elsewhere) makes the most sense for the setup. Or they could find out that there really is nothing Laurel like to her at all, but even that story is more effective if they keep hoping and trying for a long time only to be disappointed and screwed over in the end as BS dashes their hopes and tells them to suck it. 

I can see a tragic villain story or a redemption arc but not because she realizes she is kinda Laurel and those are her friends but because deep down she isn't a bad person and decides she doesn't want to kidnap and kill people anymore. But because it's who she is, not because E1 Laurel was good. What weirds me out is KC talking about LL's E1 family as if it is BS's family too or the EPs saying BS is a old friend. It's like they don't see they are two people. Oliver's  line @Trisha quoted for example makes me think of a situation like team arrow lost a pet and they decide to adopt another one and call it Fluffy the second. She is a person, it doesn't work like that.

Edited September 18, 2017 by Midnight Lullaby

[JJ928]

So I didn't see anyone post the actual blurb from EW, so here it is. If it's been posted I'll delete it.

So not something hinted at  by eps in the blurb, but she was quoted.

Edited September 18, 2017 by JJ928

[insomniadreams88]

Okay, so that quote about "the different interpretations" of the word family applying to the villains - if ME isn't Cayden James and his "family" isn't Helix... 

Has there been anything said about ME's character that points to him not being Cayden James as strongly as everything so far seems to all but confirm he is? 

[apinknightmare]

What a strange use of brackets in that KC quote.

[Morrigan2575]

2 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

What a strange use of brackets in that KC quote.

Huh? Sorry, I'm horrible at proper grammar.

Back to the EW Blurb this is basically what she said at SDCC, heck it might even be from SDCC. This seems to be more of KCs push, like her wanting a Time travel with 2 Laurel episodes. 

[lemotomato]

Didn't KC's backstory for BS include her watching her dad burn to death or something? 

[Trisha]

1 hour ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

I can see a tragic villain story or a redemption arc but not because she realizes she is kinda Laurel and those are her friends but because deep down she isn't a bad personal and decides she doesn't want to kidnap and kill people anymore. But because it's who she is, not because E1 Laurel was good. What weirds me out is KC talking about LL's E1 family as if it is BS's family too or the EPs saying BS is a old friend. It's like they don't see they are two people. Oliver's  line @Trisha quoted for example makes me think of a situation like team arrow lost a pet and they decide to adopt another one and call it Fluffy the second. She is a person, it doesn't work like that.

Yeah, this is what I don't get either. I think there's lots that can be mined about Oliver and Lance reminding her of HER versions of Oliver and Lance and how she was (maybe?) a good person before she lost them, and using that to propel a redemption arc. But at this point with everything WM, MG and KC have said, I don't expect the show to make the distinction between her and the E1 Laurel the team lost. And that's just terrible writing. 

[Morrigan2575]

1 minute ago, lemotomato said:

Didn't KC's backstory for BS include her watching her dad burn to death or something? 

Yes, which sent her out for revenge which somehow led her to be a villain killing people for fun. 

I swear her logic is like that a sock troll.

1. Daddy killed in front if her

2. Vengeance for Daddy

3. ???

4. Profit!

[apinknightmare]

3 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Huh? Sorry, I'm horrible at proper grammar.

I should've written differently - I don't think the actual usage of brackets is weird, just that whatever Katie said was so word salad/unintelligible that the writer needed to clarify something so simple as "get through to."

[Chaser]

My guess is they weren't sure what's headcanon and what's actually happening in the show.

[Velocity23]

Deleted dyla scene

[lemotomato]

51 minutes ago, JJ928 said:

So I didn't see anyone post the actual blurb from EW, so here it is. If it's been posted I'll delete it.

So not something hinted at  by eps in the blurb, but she was quoted.

Thank you for finding the actual article! 

[Sunshine]

If we're lucky, the villain "family" is the one that gets through to her and not the Team Arrow one.  A girl can dream. :)

[BkWurm1]

3 hours ago, LolaRuns said:

To me the idea of parellel universes always suggested that the people still share some of the same character traits, they just turned out differently because of circumstances. So if you love a person for their traits, you might still find some of those traits in the parallel universe version, even if you didn't share the same experiences. To me that's how for example Flash seems to play it. 

The big concept behind parallel worlds is one world for any possible choice made and how it plays out.  So in some worlds, Laurel Lance would share traits and in other, Laurel Lance wouldn't exist and in others, she's pure evil.  So really, it's whatever they end up wanting it to be because somewhere out there is every version possible.   

 

2 hours ago, Velocity23 said:

But then she was instrumental in the kidnapping of his own team and son. She did not take any steps to protect Lance. 

And yet, certain fans claim she only agreed to help on the contingency of being able to keep him safe and that it was CHase that went back on his word.  Pointing out that as pointed out, we see no steps taken to keep Quentin safe or treated any differently doesn't change minds in my experience.  It was a struggle to get any agreement that her loyalty to Chase for freeing her even factored into it at all.  

Slade gets some consideration because of the Mirakuru.  Malcolm, even though he plotted to wipe out the glades, he didn't do it for the pleasure of killing individuals but because in his own twisted way, he thought he was making life better for the city and it netted him revenge for his wife's death.

BS is in my opinion worse than these two because she seems to be a villain because she likes it.  In the Flash episode, she complained that she never got to enjoy hearing the screams of her victims because of her power.  She tried to bring down a hospital, full of the weakest and most defenseless.  She gives her loyalty capriciously to anyone that serves her even though with her abilities she absolutely wouldn't have to answer to anyone.   Everything we've seen about her so far shows she revels in the pain and chaos she creates.  Malcolm and Slade also did horrible things but BS seems to be the only one in the group that is doing it just for kicks.    

Edited September 18, 2017 by BkWurm1

[BkWurm1]

52 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Deleted dyla scene

Yup, this one belonged on the cutting room floor.  It also reminds me how much we lost in losing Baby Sara, either one that was cast.  Both little girls managed to interject personality and character into their scenes but this could have had a robot dog in it for all the cute little boy contributed.  He was just THERE.  He was just an object, not a character.  I don't think he even made eye contact with them.  I just get the impression that scene was there to try and capture some of the sweet Baby Sara magic we once got and instead it just was a painful reminder of all we lost.  

Never will forget.  

[Primal Slayer]

2 hours ago, insomniadreams88 said:

This is what I didn't get at all. She said that she ensured his safety, right? By leaving him to fend for himself on an island full of people trying to kill the entire team? If Chase had really promised her that Lance would be safe, Lance would have been left in Star City. 

Obviously the people trying to kill the team wouldn't go after Quentin. That would be the deal. Kidnap him to mess with Oliver but not actually go beyond that. Quentin was sitting locked up in a cage. Not much danger there.

[BkWurm1]

8 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Obviously the people trying to kill the team wouldn't go after Quentin. That would be the deal. Kidnap him to mess with Oliver but not actually go beyond that. Quentin was sitting locked up in a cage. Not much danger there.

Quentin was actually chained up in the temple with Diggle and Dinah and Rene.  

And BS had no reason to trust Chase would keep his word and she was outnumbered by Talia's wanna be LoA minions and she didn't have to do as Chase said if she didn't want to and yeah, Chase planned on killing everyone - so lots of danger and needless danger.

 Talia had an ax to grind.  BS was there because she felt loyalty to Chase for freeing her. Maybe BS is just a total follower and can't cope without someone telling her what to do.  Or maybe she's just not that bright?  I really can't explain why she'd put people she supposedly felt a connection to in mortal danger when it was in her power to save them had she wanted to.  

[Belinea]

Why are they trying to tell me that family will turn BS into Laurel Lance from E1. They are not the same person. Also, they killed of Laurel Lance. She is dead and E2 is not their lost friend. Also how awful of Laurel's friends, your version of your friend died, so you get a replacement one that is only physically the same but emotionally completely different. She has had another life. How will family get through to her? It isn't her family. 

Edited September 18, 2017 by Belinea

[Simba122504]

I still don't trust TPTB to marry Oliver & Felicity. Even though Oliver & Laurel never worked on this show. Part of me still believes they're going to make sure they end up together. Even though E1 Laurel is dead and that ship died in S1, I still don't fully trust them. I know Iris & Barry are going to get married because of comic book history. Am I being paranoid?

[ComicFan777]

I don't think that Oliver and any version of Laurel would end up together because the issue was chemistry between the two actors not back story.  I don't think their chemistry changes no matter what version we see.

[leopardprint]

21 minutes ago, Simba122504 said:

I still don't trust TPTB to marry Oliver & Felicity. Even though Oliver & Laurel never worked on this show. Part of me still believes they're going to make sure they end up together. Even though E1 Laurel is dead and that ship died in S1, I still don't fully trust them. I know Iris & Barry are going to get married because of comic book history. Am I being paranoid?

Not that I trust them but so many terrible things would have to happen for O/L2L to get together that I would be able to easily dump the show, so there's that. S5 was already a slog so I can't imagine a show where that happened to be something I would be interested in watching. 

Edited September 18, 2017 by leopardprint

[strikera0]

Oliver and Felicity will get married. Whether they stay together or not will depend solely on actor availability. If Emily pulls a Nina Dobrev and decides that she wants to try different things, the show will have to take the story in another direction and Olicity will probably get a divorce. 

Edited September 18, 2017 by strikera0

[Velocity23]

5 minutes ago, strikera0 said:

Oliver and Felicity will get married. Whether they stay together or not will depend solely on actor availability. If Emily pulls a Nina Dobrev and decides that she wants to try different things, the show will have to take the story in another direction and Olicity will probably get a divorce. 

Well seeing as EBR barely even does red carpet events i seriously doubt she is gonna pull a Nina Dobrev. And even in the TVD case they still managed to get her back for a final season. 

Edited September 18, 2017 by Velocity23

[insomniadreams88]

7 minutes ago, strikera0 said:

Oliver and Felicity will get married. Whether they stay together or not will depend solely on actor availability. If Emily pulls a Nina Dobrev and decides that she wants to try different things, the show will have to take the story in another direction and Olicity will probably get a divorce. 

I honestly don't see Arrow running long enough for us to have to worry about EBR leaving before it ends. 

[strikera0]

4 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Well seeing as EBR barely even does red carpet events i seriously doubt she is gonna pull a Nina Dobrev. And even in the TVD case they still managed to get her back for a final season. 

Yes, for the series finale. I don't think Emily would ever leave the show, but on the off chance that she does and the show continues for 2 or 3 more seasons, it would be silly to think that the writers wouldn't have Oliver move on with someone else in the meantime. 

Edited September 18, 2017 by strikera0

[Cleanqueen]

4 minutes ago, strikera0 said:

Yes, for the series finale. I don't think Emily would ever leave the show, but on the off chance that she does and the show continues for 2 or 3 more seasons, it would be silly to think that the writers wouldn't have Oliver move on with someone else in the meantime. 

Show has made it clear, Oliver has one true love and her name is Felicity. IF and that is an inconceivable IF she was ever to die or leave him, the show would end with him single. 

[insomniadreams88]

7 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

Show has made it clear, Oliver has one true love and her name is Felicity. IF and that is an inconceivable IF she was ever to die or leave him, the show would end with him single. 

Or dead.

[Balaclava]

She dies, he dies? Seems legit to me, also very Sons Of Anarchy which means that's probably what will happen ?

Edit: I vaguely remember a convo Marc had, maybe 2 yrs ago, with someone in the fandom about Arrow/SOA 

Edited September 18, 2017 by Balaclava
i remembered something

[Midnight Lullaby]

Stephen wants Oliver to die..I still think it's more likely they try to give a happy ending (even calling Emily back in case she left)in any possible way..

[Cleanqueen]

6 minutes ago, Balaclava said:

She dies, he dies? Seems legit to me, also very Sons Of Anarchy which means that's probably what will happen ?

Edit: I vaguely remember a convo Marc had, maybe 2 yrs ago, with someone in the fandom about Arrow/SOA 

stephen wants Oliver dead too...so yeah only way he dies is if she dies and vice versa. 

[Velocity23]

31 minutes ago, strikera0 said:

Yes, for the series finale. I don't think Emily would ever leave the show, but if she did and the show continues for 2 or 3 more seasons, it would be silly to think that the writers wouldn't have Oliver move on with someone else in the meantime. 

Honestly i think she would do a reduced number of episodes before actually leaving the show if she wanted to do other things. But she seems really tied to her hometown Vancouver. So why would she completely leave Arrow. 

[Trisha]

38 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

I honestly don't see Arrow running long enough for us to have to worry about EBR leaving before it ends. 

I'm so confused by how much legs this show has. It's pretty clear from the Thanksgiving move that they literally don't care about the ratings, so I'm starting to lean towards the 'it'll run for as long as SA sticks around' camp.  Also, I was listening to The Watch podcast a while ago and they were talking about how the WB's most profitable series over the last few years is a CW show because of licensing and Netflix. I'm not sure if it's Arrow, but it wouldn't surprise me.  

[Velocity23]

1 minute ago, Trisha said:

I'm so confused by how much legs this show has. It's pretty clear from the Thanksgiving move that they literally don't care about the ratings, so I'm starting to lean towards the 'it'll run for as long as SA sticks around' camp.  Also, I was listening to The Watch podcast a while ago and they were talking about how the WB's most profitable series over the last few years is a CW show because of licensing and Netflix. I'm not sure if it's Arrow, but it wouldn't surprise me.  

I would say Supernatural. 

[Morrigan2575]

6 minutes ago, Trisha said:

I'm so confused by how much legs this show has. It's pretty clear from the Thanksgiving move that they literally don't care about the ratings, so I'm starting to lean towards the 'it'll run for as long as SA sticks around' camp.  Also, I was listening to The Watch podcast a while ago and they were talking about how the WB's most profitable series over the last few years is a CW show because of licensing and Netflix. I'm not sure if it's Arrow, but it wouldn't surprise me.  

Arrow is definitely one of the more profitable and from what I understand the most profitable of the Arrowverse shows. I think SPN could be the most profitable, I hear it does outstanding in DVD sales 

I don't see CW ending Arrow any time soon. I think S8 is questionable only because SA's contract is up for renewal. If he resigns then Arrow will continue. I don't see EBR leaving the show at any time, it's good money, she gets to stay home and close to her family and she has the opportunity to play around with other things (shorts, Indi's, now she's apparently taking a turn at writing a screenplay) 

Edited September 18, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[Belinea]

Honestly, I doubt the people at WB would like to have Oliver die at the end of the series. I'd actually be shocked if that were the case. I was always under the impression that most shows, not all of them, work better in syndication when the show doesn't end on the worst note ever. That being said, I was an avid Buffy watcher and as a teen I hated the finale of S5 but the older I got, I actually thought it was nicely done. Of course I knew the show didn't end that way. (The ending wasn't really all that special to me) But I think I could have learned to live with it.

That being said, some series finales ruined the shows for me in such a way that I don't even want to watch reruns. Mainly because I am still so annoyed that I can't see past that final episode. I know that I am not entitled to a good ending but I still feel that way. After watching a show for years and years, I don't want to be faced with the death of the hero or Robin being with Ted or any other dumb plot that showrunners come up with to be edgy. Maybe I don't have the right to feel that way but I still do. 

[Primal Slayer]

12 minutes ago, Trisha said:

I'm so confused by how much legs this show has. It's pretty clear from the Thanksgiving move that they literally don't care about the ratings, so I'm starting to lean towards the 'it'll run for as long as SA sticks around' camp.  Also, I was listening to The Watch podcast a while ago and they were talking about how the WB's most profitable series over the last few years is a CW show because of licensing and Netflix. I'm not sure if it's Arrow, but it wouldn't surprise me.  

They didn't seem to think about scheduling this year. They would have to do a 2hr episode in order for Arrow to align with the crossover. I think advertising a 2hr Slade movie would do well in the ratings but that would mean having to push Supernatural for a week which im sure they dont want to do. But who knows, Arrow may hold stable in ratings for thanksgiving. But the show will be around for at least 8/9 seasons I would think.

[Simba122504]

1 hour ago, insomniadreams88 said:

I honestly don't see Arrow running long enough for us to have to worry about EBR leaving before it ends. 

Never say that about a popular broadcast show. It's all about milking the cow until she bleeds. S6 or even S7 should be it, but not on American tv. S55 will be the end. 

[statsgirl]

2 hours ago, Belinea said:

That being said, some series finales ruined the shows for me in such a way that I don't even want to watch reruns. Mainly because I am still so annoyed that I can't see past that final episode. I know that I am not entitled to a good ending but I still feel that way

Castle s8, Saving Nope, St. Elsewhere,  HIMYM, ,...

Yeah, they would be stupid to kill Oliver when they end the show but these guys think of themselves as auteurs so I wouldn't be surprised.

Edited September 19, 2017 by statsgirl

[lemotomato]

I don't trust the showrunners to not screw up the ending for the sake of "art", but since the network wants to get as much money as possible from syndication/Netflix deals, I'm guessing they'll get the final say on how it ends.

[Morrigan2575]

As of S3 I was advocating for Arrow to end with Oliver's death and someone else becoming GA. I've since revised it to fake death ala Dark Knight Rises.

Of course up until S5 or S6 I was advocating for SPN to have a Butch and Sundance type ending. I've since changed my mind, after 12 (almost 13) freaking seasons, I want my boys to get a HEA (although I think it's unrealistic with that show).

Back to Arrow, whenever it ends I suspect it will have a happy ending. Berlanti will most likely get the Story By credit and maybe even a writing credit (along with MG) and he doesn't seem the type to go for an artsy unsatisfactory type ending.

Edited September 19, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[ComicFan777]

For some reason, I always imagined the ending of Arrow would be something like Angel...OTA leading the charge and having the team run into battle outnumbered...leaving the audience to guess that they probably all died protecting their city.

[BkWurm1]

5 hours ago, Trisha said:

I'm so confused by how much legs this show has. It's pretty clear from the Thanksgiving move that they literally don't care about the ratings, so I'm starting to lean towards the 'it'll run for as long as SA sticks around' camp.  Also, I was listening to The Watch podcast a while ago and they were talking about how the WB's most profitable series over the last few years is a CW show because of licensing and Netflix. I'm not sure if it's Arrow, but it wouldn't surprise me.  

I think this season we're going to get a better idea of how long the show can last.  This is the first year where they really don't have a specific frame for the show.  There's nothing it has to line up with so either that freedom will open up new avenues of storytelling or will prove they have nothing left to do but spin their wheels.  Given how they are now saying Arrow will be more of an ensemble show, I think they want it to go on and on and on but I'm not sold on the concept yet.  If the ensemble part means we get more and better Diggle, Felicity Quentin and Thea, great, if it means Rene and Dinah and Curtis get equal billing I'm going to get bored quickly and start missing the flashbacks.    

Edited September 19, 2017 by BkWurm1

[tofutan]

7 hours ago, ComicFan777 said:

I don't think that Oliver and any version of Laurel would end up together because the issue was chemistry between the two actors not back story.  I don't think their chemistry changes no matter what version we see.

Who said or implied anything like that? So far the most everybody is talking about is family, and the E1 people maybe reminding her of her family. That doesn't even require her not to be evil, plenty of Arrowverse villains have a sort spot for family and still remain villains, try to take over the world and get killed for it. Just because so far she hasn't really let that stop her from evildoing doesn't mean that it might not happen on the future or that she might at least fake it to get under people's skin. 

If they wanted to try out Oliver and BS (even if just for a one time hump that makes both of them realize that they just really aren't "their" Oliver/Laurel) they wouldn't have needed to reconnect Oliver and Felicity at the end of the season or made BS that unremorseful. The pieces just aren't in place for even just a temporary Oliver/BS hookup and that's because the writers arranged the pieces. If anything all this talk about family suggests that whatever happens will be all platonic, and consider that there are two living Lances running around in the extended Arrowverse, there's not even a reason to assume that it will be mostly about Ollie. 

Quote

The big concept behind parallel worlds is one world for any possible choice made and how it plays out.  So in some worlds, Laurel Lance would share traits and in other, Laurel Lance wouldn't exist and in others, she's pure evil.  So really, it's whatever they end up wanting it to be because somewhere out there is every version possible.   

That doesn't change that so far the majority of the Arrowverse (and comics in general) have been most interested in comparatively close universes and love telling stories like a character is always a hero deep down no matter how dire the circumstances. And yes, of course that reflects negatively on Laurel if E2 is relateively close to E1 and it took her that little to become fullblown evil. it suggest that some element of that is in her even if on E1 that never came into fruition. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

Given how they are now saying Arrow will be more of an ensemble show, I think they want it to go on and on and on but I'm not sold on the concept yet.

Really? Who's saying that? They kinda said something similar at the beginning of S4, when Wendy said Felicity and Diggle would get focus, that David and Emily would be like co-leads. I remember that because I got very excited by the whole "co-leads" part ... and then of course it didn't really happen and S5 became all about Oliver and his manpain. 

As for the ending, I'd like something like Dark Knight, as @Morrigan2575 mentioned, with Oliver and Felicity shown in Bali. If they don't go with a happen ending, I'd be fine with @ComicFan777's suggestion ala Angel. 

Edited September 19, 2017 by SmallScreenDiva

[Sunshine]

5 hours ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Really? Who's saying that? They kinda said something similar at the beginning of S4, when Wendy said Felicity and Diggle would get focus, that David and Emily would be like co-leads. I remember that because I got very excited by the whole "co-leads" part ... 

Arrowverse tv in spoilers reporting from the con.  Might be an assumption on his part though simply based on SA talking about having more time off.

[tv echo]

PursueNews' interpretation of that EW article was that Samantha's death was certain, but that appears based on EW's assumption, which itself is only based on the Oliver/William scenes. So I think Samantha's fate as being maybe NotDeath is back on the table.

Edited September 19, 2017 by tv echo

[bijoux]

I want the show to end with Oliver passing on the GA mantle, no death, real or fake. Just him being fully Oliver Queen and happy with that, having paid his and his parents' dues and forging a legacy that will continue. And he would continue to help the city in the light of day, be it still as mayor or in another capacity.

For me, it would be Oliver fully off the island and embracing life.