Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Chaser]

46 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I wonder if we get a Felicity centric episode in the 6A at all.   Normally it was either 5 Or 6 but Slade has those this year.  

We thought 5x10 was going to be a big BS/KC episode, but it really was a Felicity episode. 

KC filmed 3/4 days for the finale but that didn't turn into anything.

6x04 could be big BS episode but I'm not sure. I still get the impression KP is joking somehow. His tweet comes across as - "Huge episode! More than one day! LOL"

[Morrigan2575]

50 minutes ago, Chaser said:

"Huge episode! More than one day! LOL"

That's what I took it as. Are people really thinking his tweet means it's a BS centric episode?  LOL

[Chaser]

I think the assumption is from him saying its a big episode for KC.

KC has only been filming a day here and there since the season started so KP saying its a big episode for KC is not him saying its a big episode for BS.

[Morrigan2575]

34 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I think the assumption is from him saying its a big episode for KC.

KC has only been filming a day here and there since the season started so KP saying its a big episode for KC is not him saying its a big episode for BS.

I agree. I just thought he was being snarky...woohoo she films for 4 whole days in a row.

Edited August 17, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[lemotomato]

If Felicity is unconscious when Oliver finds her on the island, that would explain why there's no romantic kiss as a part of their reunion scene. It doesn't rule out Oliver kissing her in relief or holding her or all types of other emotional responses.

[leopardprint]

I interpret a big BS episode as also being a big BC episode. Has JH also been filming a lot? 

[Belinea]

I assumed that we don't get a kiss in the present because they are 5 months ahead of us and the flashbacks might stop before reuniting. That way everyone can have more than one flashback to the island. Maybe not.

All I know is that I hope they won't sideline SA too much because while I don't need him in every scene. I don't watch the show for KC or MB. 

[statsgirl]

6 hours ago, insomniadreams88 said:

I don't know if they'll drag out Felicity's fate, but I do expect the focus of the premiere to be Oliver and William, Slade's send-off until his two-part return, whatever happened to Thea and Samantha, and the BS vs. BC fight. We might just get Felicity on comms and a comment or two that lets us know the status of Olicity in the present.

I'm just so exited for for that episode.  Not.

I figure MG is deliberately downplaying the Olicity in the episode because he's experienced the wrath of Olicity shippers when they were looking forward to an episode and didn't get what was expected (cough: 5x-05: cough).

[BkWurm1]

Quote

All I know is that I hope they won't sideline SA too much because while I don't need him in every scene. I don't watch the show for KC or MB.

 

Who's MB?  I can't remember.  (I keep thinking Melissa Benoist from Supergirl)

[Starfish35]

Manu Bennett.

[Velocity23]

 

[LeighAn]

She looked looks so aged! That hair color just drains her.

 

Curious about what the scene involes especially since SA DR and EBR don't appear to be filming.

[Primal Slayer]

[Velocity23]

38 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

She looked looks so aged! That hair color just drains her.

 

Curious about what the scene involes especially since SA DR and EBR don't appear to be filming.

Probably becoming a henchwomen for another big bad. Its the specialty for BS. 

[tv echo]

Posting here because this article references MG's recent spoiler in EW (about Olicity continuing their "trajectory" and no romantic kiss in 601)...

Arrow Season 6 Builds On Oliver & Felicity Relationship in Season 5
By Dusty Stowe  August 17, 2017
http://screenrant.com/arrow-season-6-oliver-felicity-relationship/

Quote

Still, the relationship between Oliver and Felicity still hangs over everything. While the show’s producers had originally conceived of a more comics-accurate romance between Oliver and Laurel Lance, the chemistry between Oliver and Felicity became unavoidable by the end of the show’s second season. The show leaned into that chemistry heavily in its third season, teasing a “will they/won’t they” romance for the majority of the year, before the pair finally got together at the end of that season. The heavy handed dissolution of their relationship midway through Arrow‘s fourth season pleased nobody, and it’s a misstep the show has been trying to manage ever since.

It seems like the show is finally poised to overcome some of its more melodramatic impulses – and give Arrow fans not only the pairing that they want, but the one that makes the most sense.

Edited August 18, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

And here's another article talking about MG's recent Olicity spoiler...

Should Olicity Fans Be Excited For Arrow Season 6?
Posted by Dan Wickline August 17, 2017
https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/08/17/olicity-fans-excited-arrow-season-6/

Quote

So folks who want Oliver and Felicity back, you need to be patient. For those who wanted Oliver to hook up with Dinah, the new Black Canary, doesn’t look like that’s going to happen. Those of you who want him to hook back up with Sara Lance (Caity Lotz), she’s a little busy. Those who want him to get back with Helena Bertinelli (Jessica de Gouw), she is coming back at some point…and for those of you that want Oliver to hook up with Laurel of Earth-2, that just seems wrong on so many levels.

[Morrigan2575]

17 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Probably becoming a henchwomen for another big bad. Its the specialty for BS. 

My thought as well.  Seems like Hayden James and quite possibly Richard Dragon will be in 604 (based on the timing of the casting announcement). 604 maybe the intial formation of Team Baddie with either Dragon or James being the one to bring mini-bads together

[Chaser]

"No single romantic kiss between two characters" sounds like one of those grammar games.

"No 'single' romantic kiss between two characters" - multiple?

"No single 'romantic' kiss between two characters" - platonic?

"No single romantic kiss between 'two' characters" - threesome?!

SA for sure wasn't filming. Idk about DR/EBR. They said different scenes with different casts/crew were filmed. 

[Chaser]

10 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

My thought as well.  Seems like Hayden James and quite possibly Richard Dragon will be in 604 (based on the timing of the casting announcement). 604 maybe the intial formation of Team Baddie with either Dragon or James being the one to bring mini-bads together

That makes sense. 5/6 is Slade and 7 is the crossover, so using 4 to set up the Team for the MSF works.

[statsgirl]

4 hours ago, Chaser said:

"No 'single' romantic kiss between two characters" - multiple?

This is the one I'm leaning to right now, it's just the sort of thing MG would pat himself on the back for.  After all, Diggle and Lyla have to greet each other, don't they?

[Velocity23]

[apinknightmare]

So was he pretending to not be nuts to manipulate Oliver? Nooooooo, what a shocker that would be!

Or is someone else the ~new Deathstroke?

Edited August 18, 2017 by apinknightmare

[Chaser]

6x04 is called Reversal. SA doesn't seem to be filming much for this episode, we know ME and KC filmed, KA may as well. 

I wonder if the title refers to them flipping the script. The formation of Team Bad from their POV, instead of Team Arrows.

[EmilyBettFan]

Well I know what to skip.

[wonderwall]

30 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I wonder if the title refers to them flipping the script. The formation of Team Bad from their POV, instead of Team Arrows.

I asked Ken. He said he already filmed and left. So I'm guessing he filmed for 1 day and left already. I think it just may be Cayden's introduction and we'll see him again in 608-609

[Featherhat]

1 hour ago, Chaser said:

6x04 is called Reversal. SA doesn't seem to be filming much for this episode, we know ME and KC filmed, KA may as well. 

I wonder if the title refers to them flipping the script. The formation of Team Bad from their POV, instead of Team Arrows.

Well that worked out really well for LOT last season but it seems a bit early in the season to do a full on Legion of Doom episode.

[Angel12d]

I'm conflicted because even though I don't really think much of MB or his attitude, I always found Slade really watchable and interesting in s2, aside from the weird sudden obsession with Shado. I also really liked the Oliver/Slade dynamic in the flashbacks in the first two seasons. That being said, I don't really have much interest in seeing a whole episode or maybe two dedicated to him and (I'm assuming) his son. And he still killed Moira. I already side eye Oliver working with him in 523 tbh.

Edited August 18, 2017 by Angel12d

[Starfish35]

I'm conflicted too, because he did kill Moira, but on the other hand I'm not sure it's much worse than working with Malcolm.  I mean, it is in the way that Oliver hasn't directly witnessed Malcolm running a sword through a loved one, and it's hard to imagine him getting past the horror of that.  On the other hand, Oliver did know and respect Slade before the Mirakuru, not to mention that Oliver sort of blames himself for that.  

With Malcolm, you have Oliver working with the man who tried to kill thousands, who did kill over 500 people, who killed Oliver's father, or at least was directly responsible for the situation that led to Robert's suicide.  He brainwashed Thea into killing Sara. He was responsible for Myson getting kidnapped by Darhk.  He can even be blamed in part for Laurel's death.  And yet Oliver still worked with him. So.....*shrugs*  I think both are stupid.  I'm just saying, there's precedent.

Edited August 18, 2017 by Starfish35

[way2interested]

9 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

So.....*shrugs*  I think both are stupid.  I'm just saying, there's precedent.

Ha, in a way, I kind of think trading in working with Malcolm to working with Slade almost a slight improvement.

[LeighAn]

Malcolm didn't kill Moira right in front of Thea and Oliver though.

[Angel12d]

Oh yeah, there's definitely a precedent for working with people they shouldn't. Oliver is dumb sometimes and I don't expect that to change. Haha. I just don't really care about Slade anymore. I don't know why any Slade centric episodes are necessary at this point tbh. 

Edited August 18, 2017 by Angel12d

[wonderwall]

8 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

Malcolm didn't kill Moira right in front of Thea and Oliver though.

But Malcolm did mind rape Thea...

Slade at least has the excuse of being under the influence of Mirakuru. I know he killed Moira - but even with this I think Slade could be frenemies with Oliver. Oliver plays nice when he needs SLade and vice versa. 

[way2interested]

In a way though, Malcolm set off the events that led to that anyway. Plus, at least Slade felt some remorse for it in 523 (still random and not enough time was focused on it at all for Oliver and Slade to even be close to being real allies, but remorse enough for Slade to not expect or think Oliver should come to him or try to help him) and doesn't seem to be thinking of betraying Oliver when it suits him so far.

Don't get me wrong, still not too happy at the idea of potentially throwing their history under the rug (even though I think they're ultimately going to be more of allies in the way that Oliver and Nyssa are rather than actual friends), but Slade in this situation is slightly more understandable/tolerable, and I'd rather give that story a chance rather then ever see Malcolm again.

[Velocity23]

One could always argue that Malcolm always had the ace card with Thea. What ace card does Slade have?

[wonderwall]

5 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

One could always argue that Malcolm always had the ace card with Thea. What ace card does Slade have?

meh... that's a weak ace card. Even Thea tried to kill him lol

[Morrigan2575]

I'm OK with Slade since it seems like an IOU. Granted one could argue Slade owes Oliver a ton for all the stuff he's done. However, they very much seem to want to pretend that Slade was only bad because of the Mirakuru and, I could believe it if it wasn't for that last scene in 223.

As long as Slade is a once or twice a season thing, comes to town because he owes Oliver helps and leaves. Or even better, Slade takes a contract in town and Slade/Oliver face off, with the typical non-death comics ending (so he can be brought back again and again).

As long as He's NOT like Malcolm where the show bends over backwards to justify keeping him around after killing 503 people, including Tommy, Mind Raping Thea, essentially killing Sara, kidnapping William, partial responsibility for Laurel's death, brain washing Alex,  kidnapping Thea and having a hand in Alex's death.

Edited August 18, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[BkWurm1]

Quote

 

Quote

and for those of you that want Oliver to hook up with Laurel of Earth-2, that just seems wrong on so many levels.

Nice to see a voice of reason in an article.  It bothers me how many BC and Laurel fans find her so easily interchangeable with the evil chick from E2.  

Edited August 19, 2017 by BkWurm1

[Featherhat]

30 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Nice to see a voice of reason in an article.  It bothers me how many BC and Laurel fans find her so easily interchangeable with the evil chick from E2.  

Yeah way to prove Oliver doesn't actually care about actual Laurel but can swap her out with a doppelganger and all's good. It still wouldn't mean E1 LL got a happy ending and Oliver got to reconnect with his first love. She'd probably be furious that someone else "stole her life" again ala Sara. Although given her SWFing Sara, cosmic justice. I guess if you were more of a fan of KC not necessarily attached to LL, dislike FS or simply desperate for a "BC"/GA romance she might be 2nd best. Plus from my POV they still have anti chemistry and make SA do the constipated face. KC still doesn't work playing a good girl and IMO still doesn't have the subtlety to play "slowly reforming" or "greyhat" characters or different versions of the same character ala Harrison Wells and if they were going to reform her they might just as well have had Sara pick her up and have Gideon cure her injuries slot her back in as another 4th stringer on TA and have done with it rather than go to the bother and controversy of casting another new BC, giving her DD's name and making her a regular.

I know it's early in the season but the fact that she seems to have been filming her biggest episode to date when we know SA doesn't seem to have been doing much is not a big sign that "Oliver is desperate to redeem/hook up with her" is currently high on the agenda (with these writers who knows though).

2 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

As long as He's NOT like Malcolm where the show bends over backwards to justify keeping him around after killing 503 people, including Tommy, Mind Raping Thea, essentially killing Sara, kidnapping William, partial responsibility for Laurel's death, brain washing Alex,  kidnapping Thea and having a hand in Alex's death.

Oh god, please, please not like Malcolm. Re: BIB twice, three times if you count an almost death in LOT and has never shown any remorse for any of it. And re Tommy, that's one of the reasons I never bought what Malcolm was saying about loving and protecting Thea, even before he deliberately sicced Ra's on her for his own ends and never thought Oliver should use "because he's Thea's father" for any reason than to keep them as far apart as possible. Dude got both his kids killed and has never given a monkey's about Tommy's death, not even as the only child of the woman he was so obsessive about he planned the Undertaking in revenge.

Slade as the occasional reluctant ally/antagonist/ex brother could be good, MB is very watchable in the role despite online assishness usually can't separate very well, but not if he's the new MM.

[statsgirl]

5 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I'm OK with Slade since it seems like an IOU. Granted one could argue Slade owes Oliver a ton for all the stuff he's done. However, they very much seem to want to pretend that Slade was only bad because of the Mirakuru and, I could believe it if it wasn't for that last scene in 223.

I have a very short memory.  We left Malcolm sacrificing his life (we think) for Thea,  And in the sizzle reel (?) non-Mirakuru Slade leaves everyone to die so he can make it out himself. I was never that impressed with Slade except as a villain in present day s2 but it's even harder to have sympathy for someone who claims to be Oliver's friend and leaves his loved ones to die.

[insomniadreams88]

6 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

in the sizzle reel (?) non-Mirakuru Slade leaves everyone to die so he can make it out himself. I was never that impressed with Slade except as a villain in present day s2 but it's even harder to have sympathy for someone who claims to be Oliver's friend and leaves his loved ones to die.

This is why I'm thinking Slade ends up helping at least some of them. Otherwise how does the present-day clip from the trailer and rumors of the two-parter involving his son make sense? Maybe the premiere will show Slade realizing on the island that he needs to help the others in order for Oliver to help him with his son, setting up 605? Because otherwise how does that work? "Hmm, I'll just tell Oliver all his friends died and there was nothing I could do, but remind him I helped save Myson - because I never heard a name so I don't think he has one - and he'll of course help me find my son and not think I left everyone behind to die?"

[way2interested]

9 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I was never that impressed with Slade except as a villain in present day s2 but it's even harder to have sympathy for someone who claims to be Oliver's friend and leaves his loved ones to die

He never really claimed to be Oliver's (or anyone's, really) friend though in 523. He was just helping Oliver in this specific situation after Oliver approached him and offered him freedom and the opportunity to be with his son.

[BkWurm1]

Quote

I know it's early in the season but the fact that she seems to have been filming her biggest episode to date when we know SA doesn't seem to have been doing much is not a big sign that "Oliver is desperate to redeem/hook up with her" is currently high on the agenda (with these writers who knows though).

 

Ha!  I have this hopefully fleeting, masochistic desire for BS to have some really big episodes where Oliver is barely in them so that the ones that used to freak out about Felicity supposedly taking over, will have a new place to channel their ire.  

Really though, it feels more than a little odd to me that we have 604 that seems Oliver light and then we will have 605 and 606 that also probably will be more focused on Slade than Oliver.  I'm sure he'll be there in the present day but he won't be the focus.  And then we go right into the crossover which is hit of miss on character focus.  

Edited August 19, 2017 by BkWurm1

[Mellowyellow]

I'm suspecting BS will have her scenes and Oliver will either be absent or standing around somewhere having nothing to do with her.

So much for the BS love triangle

[BkWurm1]

25 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

I'm suspecting BS will have her scenes and Oliver will either be absent or standing around somewhere having nothing to do with her.

So much for the BS love triangle

Oliver won't need to actually speak to her or have scenes with her.  He can just look at the picture Laurel gave him back and he can think about how much he really only truly loves Laurel and that Black Siren is his last chance for real happiness and he can plot how he can get some of those good LoA brainwashing drugs so that BS reforms and then he can make Dinah leave even though he recruited her, because of course, new fake Laurel is the real BC and Felicity...well she, of course, is already dead cause COOTIES!

[Morrigan2575]

5 hours ago, insomniadreams88 said:

This is why I'm thinking Slade ends up helping at least some of them. Otherwise how does the present-day clip from the trailer and rumors of the two-parter involving his son make sense? Maybe the premiere will show Slade realizing on the island that he needs to help the others in order for Oliver to help him with his son, setting up 605? Because otherwise how does that work? "Hmm, I'll just tell Oliver all his friends died and there was nothing I could do, but remind him I helped save Myson - because I never heard a name so I don't think he has one - and he'll of course help me find my son and not think I left everyone behind to die?"

Absolutely!

We don't know that Slade actually leaves them to die. I mean we have him saying it but, someone Diggle/Felicity/Thea could force him to change his mind (yelling at him). Or there's a possibility that Slade leaves them but, his conscience gets to him and he goes back and saves them.

The present day or immediate flashback ending to 523 (not sure if Hospital is 5 months later or right after 523) shows Oliver/Slade shaking hands in a hospital hallway. Whatever happens on the island leaves Oliver/Slade in a non-hating scenario.

[statsgirl]

I can see that they would want to keep Slade's anti-hero status by having him walk away from everyone else (ooooh, how will they survive?) and then being persuaded to save them by Diggle or Thea.  I'd say Diggle as a man-to-man thing because Slade would be more likely to listen to that than a woman especially a non-fighter like Felicity. But it still makes him garbage in my mind because why would he have walked away in the first place?  Malcolm may have set up the undertaking but he didn't personally know the people who lived in the Glades or personally hurt them like Slade hurt Thea, and it was the beginning of his journey, not near the end of it.

Edited August 19, 2017 by statsgirl

[way2interested]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

I'd say Diggle as a man-to-man thing because Slade would be more likely to listen to that than a woman especially a non-fighter like Felicity.

Ha, he listened to Felicity enough to go exactly where she suggested to go (for all he knows it could have been her idea and not Oliver's) but just not help anyone else.

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

But it still makes him garbage in my mind because why would he have walked away in the first place?  Malcolm may have set up the undertaking but he didn't personally know the people who lived in the Glades or personally hurt them like Slade hurt Thea, and it was the beginning of his journey, not near the end of it.

I think it's just that he has literally no connection to any of these people except vaguely Oliver and in his mind it seems like he tried to help these people they'll all die while if they all are just in it for themselves there's a chance for some of them to live. Comparably, Malcolm was willing to let Oliver, Diggle, Felicity, and the rest of the team die in s4 even after Malcolm apparently considers Oliver a son and Oliver's spared him multiple times, Diggle helped to rescue him in 315, and Felicity and the rest of the team fought with him at the end of s3 (and Thea, who he says he cares about, cares a lot about). In a way, Slade teaming up with Team Arrow in 523 could be compared to Malcolm helping in 323, but now we have 413/420 that shows that even fighting on the good side and then ultimately trying to "help" in a way (403/409), he's still selfish and ultimately out for himself and willing to throw people who have given some help under the bus for what he wants with no regrets. Slade hasn't reached that point concretely yet (especially if he actually ends up feeling guilty or ends up trying to help). He might, but at this point it hasn't happened yet so I can't be so sure.

 End point is I honestly think Malcolm is way worse of a person/anti-hero/character than Slade could be at this point, and Slade hasn't reached the point for me just yet, more like tentative concern.

[EmilyBettFan]

Funny when KC is there SA is no where to be found. Me thinks he told them to plan it that way.

Edited August 20, 2017 by EmilyBettFan

[BkWurm1]

Quote

the first, like, three scripts that I've read, they're really tight, they're really action packed, they're really moving the story forward. 

The above is from the SA's interview in the Spoiler's Only thread.  So the first three episodes are really moving the story forward but SCREECH, we hit the more BS heavy episode four and it all grinds to a halt?  ;)  Oh well, they can't all be winners.  :D

[insomniadreams88]

522/523 left me with the sense that most of BS' scenes will be with Dinah, Lance and the other villains. Hearing that SA isn't filming when she is - plus the BC/BS fight in the trailer - seems to confirm that.

(I will laugh if this pattern seems to continue and we get to the midseason finale and there are no/minimal scenes with Oliver and BS, if only to see how those fans insisting that Oliver/BS will happen react.)

They should play to the actors' strengths. Let KC play a villain. Let's see what they can do with KC and PB when BS is not pretending to be E1 LL.