Spoiler Discussion Thread

[way2interested]

4 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Anyway to tell if Oliver/William are in the Loft or separate apartment in the trailer?

I think it might be a separate apartment. It threw me off because the hallway behind Oliver in that one shot has a similar design to his mayor's office and I abruptly thought, "are Oliver and William living in the mayor's office now?" before I remembered SA saying that Oliver has an apartment now.

[bijoux]

Are we sure Oliver running will be the opening shot of 601? It wasn't last year I think. I seem to recall the show runners actually talking about how the season won't open the same way as the first four in advance.

[Cleanqueen]

I am glad we finally get to see Olicity actually have a proper progression right before they get married. I don't think the wedding will happen too late in to the season, I still believe a wedding in the crossover is possible.

Stephen saying they're in a good place proves that they've been dating the past 6 months but haven't moved in together because Felicity wants him to get to know William and have alone time with him before introducing their relationship in to his life.

[statsgirl]

Although it would actually be easier for both Oliver and William if there were another adult there to help take care of William especially as Oliver is still working as mayor and Thea may not be able to help now.  Unless Oliver's got a three bedroom apartment and Raisa's moved in too?

So they're doing another Canary vs Canary scream-off right after they just did one in 5x23?  Is this something we have to look forward to every episode next season?

[Morrigan2575]

1 hour ago, bijoux said:

Are we sure Oliver running will be the opening shot of 601? It wasn't last year I think. I seem to recall the show runners actually talking about how the season won't open the same way as the first four in advance.

I must have missed that for S6 but I could swear 501 started out with Oliver Running.

[way2interested]

12 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I must have missed that for S6 but I could swear 501 started out with Oliver Running.

Nah, just checked, it didn't. Unless you count him running late for a mayor appearance (ba dum tss).

[Cleanqueen]

yeah he didnt and when people pointed it out they had him instead run in 5x08, to recreate the 4x01 olicity scene with L/O...LOL

[Morrigan2575]

Thanks.  I only ever watch these things once, hard to remember stuff from October. 

[Cleanqueen]

I've seen two KC interviews, why is she selling this headcanon of Black Siren losing her father at the age of 14 and that's what he led her down a villainous path. She even says that this is her own headcanon...it's gonna be so embarrassing if none of this happens which I presume it won't. 

[Primal Slayer]

 She acknowledged that it very well could not happen. Though WM "says" they've worked out Sirens backstory,why they haven't communicated it to KC....who knows. 

[Cleanqueen]

why share something you know very well could not happen. Also a little far fetched and doesn't align with the narrative thus far.

[apinknightmare]

A made-up backstory that might not come to fruition might bother me if I cared at all about what Black Siren's backstory is. But I don't, so make up anything you want, Katie!

[Primal Slayer]

29 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

why share something you know very well could not happen. Also a little far fetched and doesn't align with the narrative thus far.

Why not? She isn't trying to say it will happen so there arent any huge expectations.  We don't anything about her parents yet so it doesn't really go against the narrative. 

[Velocity23]

Quote

While at San Diego Comic-Con 2017, Comicbook.com had a chance to sit down with Amell and Ramsey (and other Arrow cast members) to talk about the upcoming season, and according to Ramsey, the fallout of the Prometheus storyline will have major impact on Diggle - and not in a good way.

"...I think specifically for Diggle; he's going to lose some things. This relationship [between Oliver and Diggle] is going to change, I think. I'm going to need him in a way I don't think I've needed him before. Some of the mentor/student aspect of our relationship."

Arrow star Stephen Amell went on to describe a recent season 6 scene they shot, in which he felt things were distinctly inverted, with Oliver playing the role of friend/adviser to Diggle, much the same way Diggle was that person for Oliver in early season of the show.

http://comicbook.com/dc/2017/07/25/arrow-season-6-diggle-david-ramsey/#1

[BkWurm1]

Quote

. I mean, I miss everybody in the bunker, totally. It's not like I don't want to be down there. Just circumstance really. Things happened, you know, it makes sense here and there, blah blah blah. So, um, who knows. Who knows what's going on. Again, [unintelligible words] when it comes to Season 6. Can't allude to any future things. Just hopes and dreams."

From Willa's interview.

I really wonder what "things happened" that meant they decided to yank her from gearing up or hanging in the bunker.  I want that tell all book so badly.  

[leopardprint]

7 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

A made-up backstory that might not come to fruition might bother me if I cared at all about what Black Siren's backstory is. But I don't, so make up anything you want, Katie!

I'm just happy it wasn't Oliver related. Her head canons are improving. 

[Starfish35]

13 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

I'm just happy it wasn't Oliver related. Her head canons are improving. 

Lol I was thinking that myself.  At least it's not "her soulmate Oliver died and she was so broken-hearted that she turned evil". :)

[LeighAn]

Since most the cast seemed to be aware of an Olicity wedding maybe Katie's decided to not let Lauriver be the hill she goes to die on. 

[BkWurm1]

1 hour ago, Starfish35 said:

Lol I was thinking that myself.  At least it's not "her soulmate Oliver died and she was so broken-hearted that she turned evil". :)

I could have sworn that last year BS's backstory to evil did include Oliver dying.  So yeah, improvement!

[Featherhat]

Whilst it isn't anything I particularly care to see played out I will give her that it's something different from All About Lauriver All The Time! The cast (apart from SA sometimes) not having backstory or useful for acting future knowledge is not just limited to KC I don't think, though it does seem annoyingly widespread.

[bijoux]

This video doesn't show up for me when I go to SA's Instagram. Can anyone watch it? Is there anything spoilery beyond Oliver being in mayor mode?

[Velocity23]

its instagram live. I think it might disappear. 

[leopardprint]

I'm beginning to think Diggle either loses a limb or his memory, not sure what other long term effects from the island. They can get him Merlyn's bionic hand courtesy of Smoak Tech so they don't have to do a lot of CGI? 

[bijoux]

Either of those seems kind of hard for people to miss though, and DR was talking about others not spotting Dig's problems. He could still have memory lapses, though.

[Midnight Lullaby]

3 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

I'm beginning to think Diggle either loses a limb or his memory, not sure what other long term effects from the island. They can get him Merlyn's bionic hand courtesy of Smoak Tech so they don't have to do a lot of CGI? 

I think PTSD or something he can hide (loss of hearing from the explosion?) since David said the others won't notice at first or something like that..

[apinknightmare]

5 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Either of those seems kind of hard for people to miss though, and DR was talking about others not spotting Dig's problems. He could still have memory lapses, though.

The thought of Diggle walking around without an arm and a few days later someone going, "Oh shit, your arm's gone!" made me laugh. So thank you for that. 

[leopardprint]

3 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Either of those seems kind of hard for people to miss though, and DR was talking about others not spotting Dig's problems. He could still have memory lapses, though.

 

3 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

I think PTSD or something he can hide (loss of hearing from the explosion?) since David said the others won't notice at first or something like that..

Ooopsies! I missed that part about him hiding it, LOL. 

Perhaps hallucinations? What's Andy up to these days? Idk that Oliver can really help with PTSD since he's never dealt with his. 

1 minute ago, apinknightmare said:

The thought of Diggle walking around without an arm and a few days later someone going, "Oh shit, your arm's gone!" made me laugh. So thank you for that. 

With how much they sidelined Diggle last season, I wouldn't put it past them. ?

[statsgirl]

10 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

The thought of Diggle walking around without an arm and a few days later someone going, "Oh shit, your arm's gone!" made me laugh. So thank you for that. 

Well it's been a really tough time on the island.  And then there's Myson and his mother.  So they're bound to miss a few of the smaller details.

[wonderwall]

12 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

I think PTSD or something he can hide (loss of hearing from the explosion?) since David said the others won't notice at first or something like that..

I'm thinking it's either PTSD or nerve damage or both

[bijoux]

Could be nerve damage since SA spoiled Dig missing a shot in 601.

[leopardprint]

15 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Could be nerve damage since SA spoiled Dig missing a shot in 601.

DR said that Diggle loses something? So his fighting ability? His nerves? 

[ComicFan777]

maybe something with his eyesight? 

[tv echo]

10 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I could have sworn that last year BS's backstory to evil did include Oliver dying.  So yeah, improvement!

From 510:
Black Siren: "I told you that Prometheus was going to kill me, and that is why I did what I did."
Oliver: "Your history on Earth-2 would suggest you had other reasons."
Black Siren: "You don't trust me?"
Oliver: "Can you blame me?"
Black Siren: "No, because on my world, you've been dead for 10 years now. I moved to Central City for a fresh start. That's where this happened, and from then, it was just one bad choice after another, and I guess once you let the darkness inside, it never comes out, and now I am trapped in a parallel dimension, telling my sob story to... the doppelganger of the man that - that I loved."

[LeighAn]

3 minutes ago, tv echo said:

From 510:
Black Siren: "I told you that Prometheus was going to kill me, and that is why I did what I did."
Oliver: "Your history on Earth-2 would suggest you had other reasons."
Black Siren: "You don't trust me?"
Oliver: "Can you blame me?"
Black Siren: "No, because on my world, you've been dead for 10 years now. I moved to Central City for a fresh start. That's where this happened, and from then, it was just one bad choice after another, and I guess once you let the darkness inside, it never comes out, and now I am trapped in a parallel dimension, telling my sob story to... the doppelganger of the man that - that I loved."

I still think this was Black Siren manipulating Oliver by playing on his guilt complex. The very next scene with Felicity she flips a switch and is straight up villain.

[Chaser]

It would makes sense that Prometheus told her E1 Oliver's history so she could use it against him. Later when she talked to Felicity, she mentioned hearing that Oliver likes sisters. Kind of implies the story is different on E2.

[tv echo]

From watching all the EP/cast interviews, it does sound like S5 was not a pushback against Olicity, but a pushback against the Flash-ifying of Arrow - that they saw the problem with S4 as Arrow trying to adapt to a 'Flashverse' with metas and superpowers and magic, which didn't work for Arrow. So for S5, the EPs basically said 'f**k it, we're going to stick to classic Arrow, which is gritty, grounded realism.' So while Arrow has been forced into this shared universe with The Flash, and the Arrow characters are aware of metas and superpowers, all that stuff is seen as something primarily happening in Central City. And even if they get a new character (like Dinah) who has meta powers, they're still going to try to make it as grounded and realistic as possible. Even SA said something about how it's called the 'Arrowverse' and how they're going to stick with their Arrow tone even in crossovers. 

Edited July 26, 2017 by tv echo

[Primal Slayer]

I still don't understand Arrow being afraid pf metas as there are plenty of ways to ground them but they want to act like S4 waa a mess because of magic when it was just bad storylines. 

[bijoux]

They set up their bow and arrow wielding hero against a magical, hundreds-years-old villain. The magic directly affected the storytelling negatively right there.

[leopardprint]

I actually think the problems started back with the LOA and Ra's. I don't think they know how to write the omnipotent style villains in a way so that non powered Oliver can fight them while still remaining menacing and interesting. They end up defanging them so Oliver can deal with them, the 423 finale was just silly to me going from launching 13000 nukes to a street fight. 

Edited July 26, 2017 by leopardprint

[Morrigan2575]

38 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

I still think this was Black Siren manipulating Oliver by playing on his guilt complex. The very next scene with Felicity she flips a switch and is straight up villain.

I do think she was playing Oliver but, I don't think it means she was lying. I think she was claiming oh poor me, circumstances and Oliver's death turned me evil, woe is me. 

I'm guessing it was close to the truth, Oliver took off on the Gambit (with Sara?) and died. Laurel left Central City after finding out Oliver left or possibly after Robert came back and, told her Oliver died on the boat. Bitter, angry (pill popping, drunk?) Laurel gets turned into a Meta. She now has the power to take her issues out on the world (think S3 post Sara's death). 

Edited July 26, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[Primal Slayer]

12 minutes ago, bijoux said:

They set up their bow and arrow wielding hero against a magical, hundreds-years-old villain. The magic directly affected the storytelling negatively right there.

Damien was a compelling villain and they set up an interesting story with Thea cancelling out his powers. Did they follow up on that? No. And finding a way to depower him only to power him up again was on them.

[BkWurm1]

Given the WH/Thea questions this year as fallout from the previous year, I wonder if they had to change the originally intended narrative.  I know how much I complained that they didn't let Thea fight her own battles but maybe they actually weren't letting WH be the lynchpin in key stories.   

Edited July 26, 2017 by BkWurm1

[bijoux]

22 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Damien was a compelling villain and they set up an interesting story with Thea cancelling out his powers. Did they follow up on that? No. And finding a way to depower him only to power him up again was on them.

It's all on them, from bringing him on to his end.

I do agree about Thea. I was very excited about that and very firm in my erroneous belief that she'd play a key part in the final take down for a good, long while.

[SmallScreenDiva]

I kinda laugh when David talks about going back to gritty and grounded in S5 and I point to the birds. Wait, they're not both birds, they just both scream loud. Yeah, Arrow is never gonna go back to what it should have been. Not with these metas around.

Edited July 26, 2017 by SmallScreenDiva

[bijoux]

Going off of @tv echo's latest post in Spoilers Only, what should William call Oliver, but Oliver? He's already 12 and been aware of their connection for only a few months. Is this supposed to be reflective of Oliver being a "bad dad"? Because it only seems logical to me.

[apinknightmare]

5 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Going off of @tv echo's latest post in Spoilers Only, what should William call Oliver, but Oliver? He's already 12 and been aware of their connection for only a few months. Is this supposed to be reflective of Oliver being a "bad dad"? Because it only seems logical to me.

Yeah, even if they were on great terms I would expect him to call Oliver "Oliver." 

Everyone knows that the turning point in the fic is when the kid suddenly starts calling him DAD. C'mon!

[insomniadreams88]

3 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Going off of @tv echo's latest post in Spoilers Only, what should William call Oliver, but Oliver? He's already 12 and been aware of their connection for only a few months. Is this supposed to be reflective of Oliver being a "bad dad"? Because it only seems logical to me.

That's my thinking too. I wouldn't buy William calling Oliver "dad" even if he's spent every single second since the island with him.

However, I wouldn't be surprised if the thought process behind it is simply so that the audience sees William go from calling Oliver "Oliver" to "dad" at some point in the season, not because anyone in the writers' room has thought about where their relationship should be in the premiere. It's probably one of those tentpoles they have for the season: "William calls Oliver 'dad' for the first time - and is then kidnapped (again) when he's lured down a dark alley with crayons." 

[Midnight Lullaby]

5 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Going off of @tv echo's latest post in Spoilers Only, what should William call Oliver, but Oliver? He's already 12 and been aware of their connection for only a few months. Is this supposed to be reflective of Oliver being a "bad dad"? Because it only seems logical to me.

I agree. I guess it all falls into the mentality that since they are biologically related he is his dad and that's all that is needed. It would weird me out if he called Oliver dad now. I also imagine whatever happens with his mom is that other thing that makes their relationship not so great. And again, understandable, but it sounds so boring. 

[way2interested]

Tbh, I'm somewhat glad that he's a bad dad because at least starting the season out with him being revealed to be a "bad dad" at least makes sense over him being revealed to be a suddenly bad mayor in 501 (after being shown on-screen to be preparing for it for months in s4).

[bijoux]

Frankly, I'm expecting the bad dad thing to be an overexaggeration. I'm counting on seeing it as him learning to be one once I see it on screen.