Spoiler Discussion Thread

[BkWurm1]

14 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Apparently the remark was Wendy

WM has an absolute genius for killing my Olicity buzz.

I get it, but really, nothing has changed.  We know that they don't get back together in 520 and she doesn't say they don't get back together at all, just leaves it open.  

Actually it sounded like at first she WAS going to confirm they got back together and then stopped mid sentence and only to drop a lot of word salad including saying sorry to Olicity fans on Twitter. Maybe she's getting a lot of people begging for it to happen in 520?    

[leopardprint]

27 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

I only had like a tenth of the buzz that some Olicity fans had (I still don't think they get back together and that feeling hasn't changed) but Wendy just manages to destroy all enthusiasm. Every single time.

 I don't think they'll get back together either before 523 but I was looking forward to them interacting more. (Also the sizzle reel made me forget about the previous mutual understanding comments, good job editor) Sometimes I feel like I'm watching out of 40% genuine entertainment and 60% to see the writers' trainwreck.* Then comments like this make me want to stop altogether. 

*Note: People can watch a TV Show for any reason they want, Marc and Wendi! No reason is functionally better than another.

They are so bad at PR that maybe this is them trying to assuage the anti-Olicity fans? 

Edited April 25, 2017 by leopardprint

[LeighAn]

I don't think they'll get back together on 5x20- because Marc basically said they don't. But 5x22-5x23 you bet.

The season opened up on the question will Oliver and Felicity get back together- literally. Diggle asked Oliver if he and Felicity would work things out. So I feel fairly confident that will be answered by seasons end. 

Wendy saying "whether they end up together or not" is just her doing her usual trying to tease and create suspense thing.

I just don't see why the writers would dedicate 10+ minutes of flashbacks delving into the interactions of their core couple and give them a bottle episode which deepens their relationship if it was only to leave them exactly in the same state they are already in now- good friends. We've seen how the writers write there way out of a romantic relationship with Lauriver, and Olicity is not it. 

My guess since Marc said that 5x20 plays into 5x22 that Olicity are reunited then.

[statsgirl]

46 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

I just don't see why the writers would dedicate 10+ minutes of flashbacks delving into the interactions of their core couple and give them a bottle episode which deepens their relationship if it was only to leave them exactly in the same state they are already in now- good friends.

They're doing it to wrap things up and bury it finally and firmly.  At least that's what the anti-Olicity people are hoping.

[leopardprint]

Ha, ok I don't think that, I just think they are pushing the reunion to S6 but yeah if it's this season 522 makes the most sense. 

[statsgirl]

I don't think it makes sense to push it to s6.  They want to wrap up the five year journey Oliver's been on , and that should include finally getting the girl of his dreams rather than the loneliness he may think he deserves.  Start the next journey with a clean slate, without unresolved threads or mixed metaphors.

[lemotomato]

9 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

They're doing it to wrap things up and bury it finally and firmly.  At least that's what the anti-Olicity people are hoping.

I see some (former?) Olicity fans saying this too.

[calliope1975]

3 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

And if Diggle has an issue with Lyla doing shady things or asking Felicity to do shady things, like...has he been absent these past four ARGUS-filled years? 

My sure to be wrong hope is that Lyla is on Helix and Felicity's side, and Diggle and Oliver are on the other side. Lyla is a pragmatic, practical, do whatever needs to be done person who lives in some darker shades of grey. It could be similar to when she sided with Oliver during the first crossover, and a reason for Dyla to have conflict. Guess we'll find out tomorrow!

I've found it's best for me to find out spoilers but to avoid any and all interviews with EP's. They suck beyond belief at creating excitement for their own damn show. So badly that's it's almost a impressive talent. 

[LeighAn]

22 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

They're doing it to wrap things up and bury it finally and firmly.  At least that's what the anti-Olicity people are hoping.

Ah anti-Olicity people got a love them (not really but whatever)

See you could argue that 4x05 was a Lauriever Ep that focused on wrapping the relationship up so to speak in that they laid everything out that they had been feeling and by the end of the episode reached a resolution and became better friends. BUT they were in a crappy antagonistic place to begin with and had been pretty much since their 2x14 hall way blow up.

Olicity have not been in a crappy place- they've got walls up between them and have been closed off about what's been going on in their respective independent journeys this season but they've still had a solid friendship and partnership regardless- which Oliver and Laurel did not. So resolving the episode as them being nothing more then friends seems redundant.

In fact 5x05 would have probably been enough for them to make Olicity friends for realzies if they didn't play up Olicity having feelings in episodes after.

So no I don't buy this episode being one final hurrah and certainly not when including a flashback sex scene that will surely only highlight how much freaking chemistry these two have that has yet to be replicated with anyone else. 

But if it does end as such well at least I'll leave the show on a high note with pretty Olicity flashback sex. But all in all I like our odds of a reunion this season.

[lemotomato]

19 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

In fact 5x05 would have probably been enough for them to make Olicity friends for realzies if they didn't play up Olicity having feelings in episodes after.

This is why the "520 is just to close the Olicity chapter for realsies" theory doesn't work for me, because 505 was supposed to have done that already. 501-505 they were "ambiguous". After that, they've only been purely platonic and friendly. The people who have been saying that Olicity is dead this whole season are the same ones saying that the show is going to spend another episode to bury the relationship? A sweeps episode right before the run up to the season finale? Not sure how that's supposed to work.

Edited April 26, 2017 by lemotomato

[leopardprint]

32 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

 

I don't think it makes sense to push it to s6.  They want to wrap up the five year journey Oliver's been on , and that should include finally getting the girl of his dreams rather than the loneliness he may think he deserves.  Start the next journey with a clean slate, without unresolved threads or mixed metaphors.

 

I see it more like they are possibly going to get them on the same page romantically, Oliver will ask her out for a future date, flirty hearteyes for 522, kidnapping for maximum Oliver emotional distress, flirty flirt post rescue, Oliver goes to secure the boat, then the never before mentioned volcano on Lian Yu erupts. So rather than Oliver right away beginning the next stage in 523 he will be left ready to begin the next stage, if that makes sense.

Edited April 26, 2017 by leopardprint

[Mellowyellow]

2 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

I see it more like they are possibly going to get them on the same page romantically, Oliver will ask her out for a future date, flirty hearteyes for 522, kidnapping for maximum Oliver emotional distress, flirty flirt post rescue, Oliver goes to secure the boat, then the never before mentioned volcano on Lian Yu erupts. So rather than Oliver beginning the next stage in 523 he will be left ready to begin the next stage, if that makes sense.

I'll take that! That's as good as a lock down for me. 

I'm just suspicious they'll screw with us some more *looks around with distrust*

[leopardprint]

I do think they might screw with the timetable but I think they're getting back together for all the reasons stated in the posts above. 

Edited April 26, 2017 by leopardprint

[catrox14]

Wait, volcano on Lian Yu? Oh boy. I've missed a lot! LOL

[statsgirl]

There is a five month time jump till the start of the s6, maybe more if there is a writer's strike.   Being poised to take the next step may have worked at the end of s2 to be picked up at the start of s3 but it's not going to work after they've been together, gone through everything together including Felicity's paralysis, been engaged and fake married, and through being trapped together in 5x20. 

I'm willing to eat my hat if they wait until s6 to put them together again.

34 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

In fact 5x05 would have probably been enough for them to make Olicity friends for realzies if they didn't play up Olicity having feelings in episodes after.

I think even 5x05 would have been written differently.  If they weren't planning on putting Oliver and Feliicty together again, Oliver wouldn't have been waiting hoping for Felicity to get back together with him and Felicity wouldn't have hesitated to tell Oliver that she had moved on, much less tell him that she thinks her relationship with Billy is the real thing.

Remember the Christmas party in s1?   Oliver seemed relieved to be able to give Tommy and Laurel his blessing, not hesitant and hopeful the way he was in 5x05.

[leopardprint]

Omg @catrox14! hahahahaha no! There isn't a volcano on Lian Yu as far as I know, just spec the island is going kaboom. ??

Edited April 26, 2017 by leopardprint

[catrox14]

4 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

Omg @catrox14! hahahahaha no! There isn't a volcano on Lian Yu as far as I know, just spec the island is going kaboom. ??

LOLOL okay. I mean I wouldn't put it past these numbnuts though LOL

[BkWurm1]

5 hours ago, leopardprint said:

I see it more like they are possibly going to get them on the same page romantically, Oliver will ask her out for a future date, flirty hearteyes for 522, kidnapping for maximum Oliver emotional distress, flirty flirt post rescue, Oliver goes to secure the boat, then the never before mentioned volcano on Lian Yu erupts. So rather than Oliver right away beginning the next stage in 523 he will be left ready to begin the next stage, if that makes sense.

I'm on a similar page, that Olicity will make it clear they are emotionally back together before the end of the season, but circumstances might delay the physical reunion.  

FYI, I like the spec about a volcano!  Malcolm made an earthquake machine. It could be a nice call back to season one. Let Chase use that to trigger seismic changes underground on Lian Yu that triggers the hereto unknown dormant volcano and now we have both a ticking time bomb and a way to make the island uninhabitable!  Which means they probably aren't going there but I really like it! 

[Velocity23]

[bijoux]

So, Kujo or somebody else at Helix killed that guy?

[JJ928]

9 minutes ago, bijoux said:

So, Kujo or somebody else at Helix killed that guy?

Looks that way. I'm sure Lyla is not gonna be happy when she finds out.

[bijoux]

If Felicity suspects that, I do find it strange that she goes out in the field with them later in the episode. Maybe the dead guy was working with Chase in some capacity.

[ComicFan777]

If Helix ends up hacking the Arrow elevator, I would have a problem with that because Felicity's specialty is cybersecurity - no one should be able to hack her secured elevator.

Edited April 26, 2017 by ComicFan777

[JJ928]

Agreed. But I feel like they're gonna give her some justification for killing him, if they did, now whether their reasons are real... I guess we'll see. They have to have something solid on Chase to make Felicity do whatever she's doing tonight.

Edited April 26, 2017 by JJ928

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, bijoux said:

If Felicity suspects that, I do find it strange that she goes out in the field with them later in the episode. 

That's probably where the conflict comes in? She shouldn't be working with them after something like this but she's going to anyway because she wants to find Chase, so she's making questionable choices/decisions.

Edited April 26, 2017 by Guest

[insomniadreams88]

I couldn't help but wonder if Felicity recognized a line of code as hers from when she did a favor for Helix? I'm assuming that the OTA scene in the sizzle reel and Oliver's line about Helix compromising Felicity's security comes after this, presumably when she returns from Helix? 

[leopardprint]

I can't remember, does Oliver still not know about Helix? (Also why is the mayor investigating a murder...)

4 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

I couldn't help but wonder if Felicity recognized a line of code as hers from when she did a favor for Helix? I'm assuming that the OTA scene in the sizzle reel and Oliver's line about Helix compromising Felicity's security comes after this, presumably when she returns from Helix? 

Maybe they are setting her up to take a fall? 

Edited April 26, 2017 by leopardprint

[statsgirl]

Oooh, nice.  It looks to me like Helix asked Felicity to write some code which they then used to hack the elevator and kill that guy.

A super dilemma for Felicity who has always been about not killing because it's bad for you.

Shallow note -- I like the Dark Felicity look, with the power hair and darker lipstick.

[Guest]

Has Felicity always been about not killing though? I know she was in s1 but I felt like she evolved into a more morally grey area tbh. Even at the start of s2 when Oliver talked about the body count she asked "So what?" And she told him to kill Ra's. I'm sure she won't like that she possibly had a hand in this dude's death without realizing it but I'm not sure she's as anti-killing as she was originally. 

[bijoux]

She's not strictly anti-killing, but killing a dude remotely without him immediately threatening someone doesn't seem her style, or something she'd approve of.

[leopardprint]

15 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

A super dilemma for Felicity who has always been about not killing because it's bad for you.

I don't know, I think Felicity has a much more nuanced view about killing. She definitely doesn't want Oliver to kill because Oliver has difficulty with it. Felicity is a vigilante who routinely illegally hacks so she's pretty comfortable operating in gray. It's kind of an overall issue I have with the whole Helix story, so far it's just a lateral move since Helix hasn't done anything worse than Oliver has, and I don't know how Felicity working with another team is her going it alone.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Shallow note: I agree, Dark Felicity has upped her look game. 

Edited April 26, 2017 by leopardprint

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, bijoux said:

She's not strictly anti-killing, but killing a dude remotely without him immediately threatening someone doesn't seem her style, or something she'd approve of.

Agreed. But I don't see her as anti-killing as she was when she first joined Team Arrow tbh. 

[JJ928]

I feel like Felicity is more morally grey. I think she's for killing when necessary, when it comes to the villains. 

[Morrigan2575]

I'm thinking Helix used some code she wrote for them or Helix sold some code she wrote for them and that person used it.  

[LeighAn]

46 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I'm thinking Helix used some code she wrote for them or Helix sold some code she wrote for them and that person used it.  

Yeah same. My line of thinking is that she wrote the code for them that was used on the elevator to kill that guy, making Felicity indirectly responsible. 

[Trisha]

16 hours ago, LeighAn said:

A lot of people on Twitter Natalie is lying because otherwise why put it in parentheses then? Essentially that is what you do when you are inserting something into a quote that wasn't said or to clarify something that was said.

Nope, if an author is inserting they're own commentary in a quote they put it in square brackets -- and usually include it as an Ed. Note in italics. It was in parentheses, so it was WM saying it.

I don't know why, but the Olicity fans mention didn't bother me at all. It was her clumsy way of saying "I know these fans want it but I can't confirm it's happening." I think it's pretty clear that they'll probably be putting them back together (whether that was always planned or is a reaction to this season is debatable), and I think it's also pretty clear that the bloom is off the rose when it comes to Olicity fans for WM and MG. They treat them the same way they used to treat Laurel fans now and have for a while. I'm guessing it was a bit of a rude awakening for them to realize that they only way they can get any decent buzz/ratings is with a ship, not with anything else associated with the show itself, including all their new pet characters they were undoubtedly convinced would take off, or even the main character alone. Plus, their mentions have probably been deluged with complaints from Olicity fans since 4b and they're likely sick and tired of hearing about it. So sometimes that sneaks out in snotty little asides. As long as they start delivering the goods onscreen  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Velocity23]

9 minutes ago, Trisha said:

Nope, if an author is inserting they're own commentary in a quote they put it in square brackets -- and usually include it as an Ed. Note in italics. It was in parentheses, so it was WM saying it.

I don't know why, but the Olicity fans mention didn't bother me at all. It was her clumsy way of saying "I know these fans want it but I can't confirm it's happening." I think it's pretty clear that they'll probably be putting them back together (whether that was always planned or is a reaction to this season is debatable), and I think it's also pretty clear that the bloom is off the rose when it comes to Olicity fans for WM and MG. They treat them the same way they used to treat Laurel fans now and have for a while. I'm guessing it was a bit of a rude awakening for them to realize that they only way they can get any decent buzz/ratings is with a ship, not with anything else associated with the show itself, including all their new pet characters they were undoubtedly convinced would take off, or even the main character alone. Plus, their mentions have probably been deluged with complaints from Olicity fans since 4b and they're likely sick and tired of hearing about it. So sometimes that sneaks out in snotty little asides. As long as they start delivering the goods onscreen  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Natalie has a history of misquoting and misleading in her interviews. 

[Trisha]

Interviews should always only consist of questions submitted by fans! 75% of TV Line's latest are about Felicity or Olicity. This answer about how Felicity's convo with Oliver in 520 forces her to "reframe everything that happened in season 4" makes me even more worried that she's somehow going to be depicted as being in the wrong for walking away, though.

Quote

What’s going to be discussed in Episode 20, “Underneath” (airing May 3)? –Athena
That episode entraps Oliver and Felicity in the Arrowcave, where the latter is “really upset” about what Oliver does this week. “Oliover truly cares about her, and doesn’t want her to go through what he’s gone through [once allying with Bratva],” Mericle notes. “But from where Felicity is sitting, that’s total hypocrisy, and she’s going to call him on that.” As the ex-lovers in turn revisit their Season 4 split, Felicity “is going to come out of this with a new understanding of who Oliver is. Everything that happens with Helix is going to force her to reframe everything that happened at Season 4, especially when she looks back at when she walked away.”

[Guest]

Quote

Everything that happens with Helix is going to force her to reframe everything that happened at Season 4, especially when she looks back at when she walked away.

Yeaaaaaah. That's exactly what I was worried about. If this turns into a "I was completely in the wrong" revelation, they can GTFO.

Edited April 26, 2017 by Guest

[LeighAn]

Do we need to bring back the list of things Wendy says in interviews that either never happens or is grossly grossly exaggerated? Where is @lemotomato

[leopardprint]

6 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Yeaaaaaah. That's exactly what I was worried about. If this turns into a "I was completely in the wrong" revelation, they can GTFO.

Ugh! Ugh! Ugh!

Quote

“This is the episode where Felicity really finds out what Helix is up to, and who’s she’s gotten into bed with,” co-showrunner Wendy Mericle tells TVLine. “We’ve dropped a lot of hints throughout the season, and Oliver definitely has seen it coming, but everyone has been powerless to keep her from making these decisions.”

Also, sorry when did Oliver see it coming? I am still unclear if he even knows about Helix? 

True, @LeighAn, but this does match up with how MG talks about the breakup.

Edited April 26, 2017 by leopardprint

[Chaser]

I'm thinking they may have two different conversations. One involves the Bratva, go it alone yada yada (which ties into Helix) and one involves William (which ties into the break up).

With WM, I have to wait and see because she is so bad at teasing anything.

1 minute ago, leopardprint said:

Ugh! Ugh! Ugh!

Also, sorry when did Oliver see it coming? I am still unclear if he even knows about Helix? 

Oliver knows something is up. He may not know the details but he isn't unaware. Look at 5x16.

[leopardprint]

Yes, but vaguely knowing something is up with her is not "seeing it coming and being powerless to stop her." I think in 5x16 he says he knows she's into something she doesn't want to talk to him about but maybe WM is referring to the scene when he says the compromised security line at the beginning of the episode and she argues with Digg and Oliver. 

Edited April 26, 2017 by leopardprint

[way2interested]

Only half of that answer actually answered the question, though? And then a repeat of what they've been saying since literally last year since they teased this storyline. This isn't calling anyone out, it's just a pet peeve of mine when people go on tangent from the actual question. Like, the question is "What do they talk about?" And her answer is, "they talk about what just happened in 519....you know, Felicity gets a real understanding [insert same Felicity quote here]" and TVLine's the one inferring that they talk about their break-up from that, unless she off-quotes confirmed that. I get that MG confirmed they talk about Felicity's feelings concerning his kid and the breakup, but WM couldn't have at least phrased it like that instead of repeating the same Felicity quote?

Besides that one, I actually liked literally all of the other answers.

[catrox14]

11 minutes ago, Trisha said:

“But from where Felicity is sitting, that’s total hypocrisy, and she’s going to call him on that.” As the ex-lovers in turn revisit their Season 4 split, Felicity “is going to come out of this with a new understanding of who Oliver is. Everything that happens with Helix is going to force her to reframe everything that happened at Season 4, especially when she looks back at when she walked away.”

Oh WM , if she's serious then I guess she's forgetting the context of what Oliver did and those are false equivalencies.

They were ENGAGED to be married and Oliver lied to her about having a child with another woman. Are these nimrods really trying to suggest they are the same thing. They are just so not.

[way2interested]

Re: the clip in the Spoiler Thread

So we finally know the illegal thing Helix wants Felicity to do!

[insomniadreams88]

http://www.eonline.com/news/846133/arrow-10-things-to-know-about-what-s-to-come-in-the-rest-of-season-5

Quote

8. Felicity may seek a future away from Team Arrow. 

"We hinted at it last year, which is when she had quit the team and she was like, I'd really like to do something. There are other ways to do good in the world and to fulfill her own personal mission, and going forward, especially in coming seasons, that is something she very much wants to do, and we really want to explore for her," Mericle says. "We talk in the writers room a lot about giving Felicity something that is not on the team and has nothing to do with Oliver and is very much her own thing, and that's something I think we really look forward to in season six." 

Isn't this how they sold the Helix storyline this year? Why does this quote sound like, "Here, this is something completely new we haven't done before so we're going to do it in season 6 ... even though we said that about season 5?" 

[bijoux]

There isn't a thing I don't like in that preview. Everything is brimming with potential. That was not how I expected Lyla and ARGUS to be involved in this plot, but it's genuinely interesting.

[lemotomato]

11 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

Do we need to bring back the list of things Wendy says in interviews that either never happens or is grossly grossly exaggerated? Where is @lemotomato

At this point, I wonder if I even need to drag the list out. We're going to see what actually happens anyway in less than 12 hours, and next week :P

[Midnight Lullaby]

Saying that everyone has been powerless to stop Felicity so far paints their objections in a too dramatic way imo. Yes, they told her what she was doing could be dangerous but they were all happy she found those evidence on Chase, they weren't scandalized because she got them through Helix.

I don't understand how it makes sense to compare Helix to the BMD other than in the alternative reality where Oliver was doing all he could to keep his kid safe and Felicity is a super villain. I hope since it's Wendy it won't translate on screen.

About NA..I don't like her and she is biased in her interviews but it would be moronic and make no sense to blame something on a EP she needs to keep a professional relationship with to do her job. If she said that was Wendy's comment I don't doubt it.

Edited April 26, 2017 by Midnight Lullaby