Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Trisha]

45 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

How can that be? She was considered a series regular across all 3 shows this year and barely got 7 episodes...

I seem to recall that when Wentworth Miller was the first to get the across-all-shows contract, TV Line's MM talked about how it was a "groundbreaking" contract because it was new and didn't follow the typical SAG rules. But normally, to be called a series regular on one network show you have to appear on at least 13 episodes that season. It's possible SAG changed the rules, but if they did it's very recent. 

If she's been deemed a regular, I think we should assume she's in it for at least the same amount that WH was in this year.

[Morrigan2575]

1 hour ago, Primal Slayer said:

Last i checked awhile ago , SAG mentioned that for series regulars you have to have an X amount of episodes to be considered a series regular, that number being 13. So they would have to be available for the entire season if they space it out like Willa.

Hmm per the 2005 contract you can definitely have Series Contracts for less than 13 episodes guaranteed, seems minimum is 7, unless the show is 6 episodes or less.

[EmilyBettFan]

Her being back is nothing more than bts politics. Those photos of her + the announcement sure were really close together. Anyway, it's not like she has good ratings behind her to justify her being on the show again.

[theOAfc]

32 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

Dinah trended on her first appearance on Arrow, so yes she created buzz. She'll never garner the same amount of buzz Felicity, Olicity or OTA have but majority of fans prefer her over LL. I believe only LL fans are against the character. And based on what the producers have been saying they're actually "excited" about keeping her.

If you thought that backlash was huge then you were only concentrating on limited platforms, her death didn't create the sort of buzz other major characters that get killed did. When the character can't trend in any shape or form across all media platforms then that isnt buzz.

If you're concerned about top comments on Arrow page then go see the Black Siren returning to Arrow comments and dislikes, majority of the fans on there don't want her back. 

And Stephen's page got the same arguments and backlash when Olicity broke up or whenever the show disrespects olicity in some fans eyes. 

I disagree. I pay  attention to many  parts of the Internet, not just corners of it  and I saw much more negativity over them killing laurel than them breaking up Olicity last year. Most negativity i saw regarding Olicity was about the duo  in general being a thing .  The episode after Laurels "death" raised in ratings too. It created buzz.  

Also Dinah trended once this season yet half tweets were hating on her and demanding that Laurel is back so while she is not really  hated she is not popular either. She is more  like Rory, enjoyable but not buzz worthy. 

Lastly, to reply to someone else's comment,  I don't think comparing Laurel to Abby or Lexa is fair. Lexa was more popular than even Felicity last year. Of course Laurel dying wouldn't create such a big fuss. Lexa was also a gay character so many were upset that once again a show killed the gay character. It became more about representation of the LGBT community than simply dissatisfaction  over the death of a loved character.

As I said I don't think Laurel  is such a popular character. But I do think that her death happened at a time that many fans were already upset with the writing of arrow and they easily followed the trend which was that Olicity ruined the show and laurel shouldn't have died, being a main comic book character since season one.

As for Abby, she  was literally a female lead, equal to the male lead. Laurel was never that(no matter what her fans say)  and she didn't even have much of a focus  last year. Which is why big media sites didn't use the  "show killing its female lead" headline. That  wasn't as buzz worthy as the Abby situation , an actual lead of a show being written off. 

Laurel dying created plenty of backlash imo for a show like arrow. It also happened during a time that many general fans were disappointed with the show. So the backlash was even bigger than it would have been, had she died at a different time. At least imo. 

Edited April 17, 2017 by theOAfc

[Angel12d]

Do you think we can move the Laurel/KC talk to her thread please?

Edited April 17, 2017 by Angel12d

[Morrigan2575]

10 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Do you think we can move the Laurel/KC talk to her thread please?

Sorry

[Angel12d]

Cody Rhodes RT'd MG's tease of the sizzle reel which reminded me he's coming back. Do we know which episode? Trying to figure out where he fits/why he's relevant tbh.

Edited April 17, 2017 by Angel12d

[Morrigan2575]

Confirmed, 521

Edited April 17, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[statsgirl]

2 hours ago, Cleanqueen said:

She's not back because of backlash...

I tend to agree with this. I think MG etc. looked at the Black Siren episode and thought "Hey, there is an arc we could do with her."  I don't know if it's the 6A villain + redemption or it's helping the season's Big Bad, but I'm pretty sure they have a specific plan in mind.  We'll have a better idea what it is after the season finale.

If they wanted just to deal with the backlash, keeping her off the show entirely would have been a better strategy and then people would have given up after a while, probably by the start of the new season. Making KC a regular just keeps it fresh in their minds.

(Sorry, didn't move it to the Laurel thread because it's spoilery.)

Edited April 17, 2017 by statsgirl

[Cleanqueen]

LOL

[calliope1975]

I swear - Manu's back, no I'm not, yes he is, oh hai, I'm trying to secretly be in Vancover but there are cameras everywhere. KC's back, not as much as you think, she's a regular, lol we'll see.

The BTS shenanigans on this show are bananas. 

[Sakura12]

I don't think LL was popular, I think Black Canary was popular. And since she had the right the name that's where the upset fans came from. The stunt performer wearing the mask is who they miss. 

As for MB do most people going to care if he's back? The way he's acting isn't going to gain any positive buzz for him. 

[Morrigan2575]

22 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

I swear - Manu's back, no I'm not, yes he is, oh hai, I'm trying to secretly be in Vancover but there are cameras everywhere. KC's back, not as much as you think, she's a regular, lol we'll see.

The BTS shenanigans on this show are bananas. 

Those Paps lost their shit this week with Manu's antics. Very funny to watch, the snark was off the charts. ??

[spartan]

I love black siren, i am sure that since they announced in advance that katie was regular, it assumes that they know in advance how to evolve the story.

Now that we reach the end of season 5, I would like a total upheaval, would be fine, if felicity dies, this will bring more stake. I think emily is already tired of this role.

[insomniadreams88]

1 hour ago, Cleanqueen said:

LOL

I'm not surprised. It's probably going to end up being a couple scenes showing she's working with Evelyn and Chase, her part of some sort of fight on Lian Yu and then something that shows her escape/that she's free for whatever's planned in S6. Or would they really lock her up again at the end of the season and have her escape again at the beginning of S6/in a flashback in the premiere to over the summer? 

They're bringing back enough people in the finale that I didn't expect much. I would laugh, however, if somehow Curtis (or someone) ends up having the sonic dampener on Lian Yu and just takes her out of the fight early on. Probably depends on what those who aren't taken know about who's working with Chase.

[Primal Slayer]

4 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Hmm per the 2005 contract you can definitely have Series Contracts for less than 13 episodes guaranteed, seems minimum is 7, unless the show is 6 episodes or less.

I could be reading both the 13/less than 13 wrong but sounds like one is referring to if a series has at least 13 episode order while the other (8) is for shows that have less than a 13 episode order. HBO series regulars would be different from regular network series regulars based on episode count.

I didn't expect Katie to have a huge role in 22/23. There is going to be A LOT of characters and the show is going to be tying up a huge part of the show - the flashbacks. Manu was in town for 2 days and did 5 scenes.

[LeighAn]

When Katie was the second billed cast member and in every episode she still got the least amount of screen time compared to the rest of the regular cast with the exception of Paul and John who made sporadic appearances. I highly doubt that's going to change much now that she's coming back to the show, seemingly not on the team and appearing as an antagonist/Villan and according to the paps is way way way lower down the food chain. 

[Angel12d]

4 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Confirmed, 521

Thanks! Isn't this the episode about Honor Thy Father or something? Haha, I can't remember. I'm mildly curious as to why he's in that episode though.

Edited April 18, 2017 by Angel12d

[Morrigan2575]

6 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Thanks! Isn't this the episode about Honor Thy Father or something? Haha, I can't remember. I'm mildly curious as to why he's in that episode. 

Yeah but, I feel like I don't know that much about 21. I'm really curious to see what's going on.

Edited April 18, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[Angel12d]

Yeah, I don't think we've heard anything about 521 tbh, apart from the title? So IDK. 

[way2interested]

I remember Marc said that it's purposefully connected to 102 "Honor Thy Father" and that it's focused on Oliver's and Chase's father issues.

[insomniadreams88]

I can't see how Cody Rhodes' return can be anything other than a distraction/something for the B team to deal with in 521. But maybe I'm missing something/it's just because we don't really know much about the episode.

4 minutes ago, way2interested said:

I remember Marc said that it's purposefully connected to 102 "Honor Thy Father" and that it's focused on Oliver's and Chase's father issues.

Yeah, this and Thea's back in this episode (right?) is all I've seen about the episode. 

[Primal Slayer]

24 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

When Katie was the second billed cast member and in every episode she still got the least amount of screen time compared to the rest of the regular cast with the exception of Paul and John who made sporadic appearances. I highly doubt that's going to change much now that she's coming back to the show, seemingly not on the team and appearing as an antagonist/Villan and according to the paps is way way way lower down the food chain. 

Unless my memory is wonky, she usually got 3rd/4th place. Her and David seemed to be pretty close a lot.

[BkWurm1]

1 minute ago, insomniadreams88 said:

I can't see how Cody Rhodes' return can be anything other than a distraction/something for the B team to deal with in 521. But maybe I'm missing something/it's just because we don't really know much about the episode.

Yeah, this and Thea's back in this episode (right?) is all I've seen about the episode. 

And that Willa had a scene in 521 that MG thought she knocked out of the park.  Honestly, I'm glad for spoilers that place Thea on the Island in 523 or I'd worry she was getting on a bus in 521.  

[Angel12d]

Well, at least Thea's back in 521, so that's something.

[insomniadreams88]

1 minute ago, BkWurm1 said:

And that Willa had a scene in 521 that MG thought she knocked out of the park.  Honestly, I'm glad for spoilers that place Thea on the Island in 523 or I'd worry she was getting on a bus in 521.  

Well, with them celebrating Oliver's birthday in 522, she has to be around for that. Because she can't miss her brother's birthday, but she can give him a call eventually after he's kidnapped and tortured for six days. 

I really hope they have some amazing explanation for where Thea's been when she pops up in 521 that makes up for her absence after that. But they probably won't even address it. 

[Primal Slayer]

With Thea/Oliver on the island, who is running Star City? Such a shame they just ignore that storyline.

[Angel12d]

Maybe 522 is called "Missing" because someone walks into the mayor's office and goes "Where da fuck is everyone?" Even Quentin is gonna end up on Lian Yu. Do they not think that will look suspicious if everyone on the main mayoral staff just disappears? Haha, this show. 

[way2interested]

Re: Cody Rhodes/521, since it's supposed to be connected in a way to 102, I wondering if Oliver goes to the Queen Mansion (since Marc also said that we're going to go back to the mansion again at some point in the season) to visit his dad's fake grave again and Cody's character ends up being the someone who might be surprisingly living there (also teased by Marc). Then his role might just be a quick rematch cameo in the middle of Oliver's A plot.

[apinknightmare]

Derek Sampson is Robert's bastard son, pass it on

[Angel12d]

1 minute ago, apinknightmare said:

Derek Sampson is Robert's bastard son, pass it on

LMAO.

I have actually been waiting for a bastard child of Robert's to turn up though...

[BkWurm1]

5 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

LMAO.

I have actually been waiting for a bastard child of Robert's to turn up though...

If Thea ever moves away you can be sure they will discover one.  

[shadow2008]

7 hours ago, theOAfc said:

Honestly,probably yes.

I believe majority of stuff they do the last years is a reaction to fans and ratings instead of an actual plan and a well thought journey. The more the ratings drop the more they need the internet buzz,that's how cw survives anyway. Here we are towards the end of s5 and LL fans and Olicity fans are still fighting about whats the romantic endgame in this show. The announcement about her being back as regular as well as the rumors about olicity reconciliation all created buzz both negative and positive.. EPs probably love it. Guggie is even back on tumblr . lol 

Yeah, I tend to agree with that. I am a big Sara fan but her death in the season 3 premiere had a lukewarm reaction at best. Laurel's death definitely created more waves. As to why that was, I can only explain it with the whole name issue. Sara didn't have the right name, so her death was something most people expected and because they figured that it was ultimately going to propel Laurel to reach her comics destiny, they were probably okay with it. What truly gets to me is that Laurel was never that popular online until she was killed off. Reddit is probably the heartland of Laurel love, but even there, she was a divisive character at best until the grave pictures leaked. I think what may have happened is that many non-shipper viewers were dissatisfied with the overall direction of Arrow and Laurel's death served as the final tipping point. I also feel like Laurel and KC were somewhat martyrdized when she was killed off. All of a sudden, Laurel was this fantastic character - the best Black Canary ever - and KC this classy, Emmy-worthy talent who got thoroughly screwed over by the evil writers and producers of Arrow. I know there have been a lot of rumors about her BTS-behaviour over the years. I don't know if any of that was true or not, but if it was, I think bringing it out into the open would have definitely helped to combat the backlash a bit as more people would have understood the producers' decision to kill her character off. 

I definitely think that them bringing her back is part of a panic move due to the declining ratings - only that in this case, they are misreading the ratings decline and it won't stop the bleeding, anyway. The truth is, Arrow's ratings have been on a downward slope ever since the fall finale, which ended with a "Laurel is alive" cliffhanger. They did experience one positive ratings spike for Dinah's/BC 3.0's introductory episode, but that came on a very slow night of television (CBS was the only other network with original programming that night), so it's probably safe to assume that the episode in question was watched by a lot of casual viewers and/or ex-Arrow watchers. Unfortunately, her introduction was very lazily done, so the casuals didn't stick around for future episodes. Rabid Laurel fans, who were angry that their favourite was replaced by another character, would have also dropped the show within the first couple of episodes of Dinah's introduction. If the ongoing ratings decline has anything to do with Black Canary, it's because the writers still don't get it and the character continues to be horribly underused and underdeveloped - not because of anything related to Laurel.

Edited April 18, 2017 by shadow2008

[wonderwall]

Anyways - it does seem like BS has a huge role in the finale lmao

[way2interested]

Also, 

(along with Talia and Felicity, he adds later) Since Diggle, Lance, and BS weren't on set today, I wonder if they filmed a scene with Lance seeing E2 Laurel on the island last week.

[Chaser]

Assuming KC is done for the season, she filmed a total of four days for 22 and 23.

Did MG oversell 22/23 tho? He never said she would play a big role. IIRC, it was just that she would appear and then return next season as a regular. 

Also, that's a lot of people. Most seem to be 'good' guys. Does Artemis switch? Talia? Do they get captured?

[leopardprint]

So Diggle is still with the B Team then? ?

I'm still thinking BS and Lance will have some sort of moment and she'll bail until next season. It's not really her fight. Maybe Lance becomes obsessed with finding her? 

Edited April 18, 2017 by leopardprint

[BunsenBurner]

When I read MB's tweet that he wasn't coming back for Arrow I read it as he was coming to work for Prometheus.

[Primal Slayer]

The fact that they are still using a Deathstroke stand in is the funny part. Manu must be doing a lot of voice work.

[Chaser]

3 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

So Diggle is still with the B Team then? ?

I'm still thinking BS and Lance will have some sort of moment and she'll bail until next season. Maybe Lance becomes obsessed with finding her? 

By B Team do you mean WD and Dinah? Could be. He also could still be with Prometheus.

2 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

The fact that they are still using a Deathstroke stand in is the funny part. Manu must be doing a lot of voice work.

What do you mean? Manu isn't coming back. It's B.S. Haven't you seen his twitter? Or IG???

[Primal Slayer]

Lol. Manu filmed all of 2 days maybe? 5 scenes in all seriousness. Don't know why they designed him to be such a big part of the finale if they couldn't secure him for more then that.

[apinknightmare]

Just now, Primal Slayer said:

Lol. Manu filmed all of 2 days maybe? 5 scenes in all seriousness. Don't know why they designed him to be such a big part of the finale if they couldn't secure him for more then that.

Deathstroke is probably just inexplicably walking around with his helmet on a lot of the time. So Arrow.

[insomniadreams88]

3 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Deathstroke is probably just inexplicably walking around with his helmet on a lot of the time. So Arrow.

He just obviously missed that helmet and is going to refuse to take it off.

[BkWurm1]

Quote

 I am a big Sara fan but her death in the season 3 premiere had a lukewarm reaction at best. Laurel's death definitely created more waves.

This isn't the right thread so I won't get into it but I strongly disagree.  I'd go as far as to say that her death and what came from it was the bigger reason for the drop in viewership until the crossovers bumped every thing back up.  

23 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Assuming KC is done for the season, she filmed a total of four days for 22 and 23.

Did MG oversell 22/23 tho? He never said she would play a big role. IIRC, it was just that she would appear and then return next season as a regular. 

Also, that's a lot of people. Most seem to be 'good' guys. Does Artemis switch? Talia? Do they get captured?

I can't get behind Artemis switching sides.  She crossed a line that I can't forgive her for in faking her death to torture Oliver.  That hit levels of cruelty that only a full on villain can explain.  

[wonderwall]

25 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

So Diggle is still with the B Team then? ?

 

Actually in this case this might be a good thing. The other team looks WAY too big for anyone to have any decent focus/screentime

[Mellowyellow]

So where is Felicity ? I've lost track of where she's supposed to be now. 

[looptab]

I thought Dig was with the others- didn't Ken write 'Digger'? I thought he misspelled. Otherwise who's Digger? Haha.

[insomniadreams88]

Just now, looptab said:

I thought Dig was with the others- didn't Ken write 'Digger'? I thought he misspelled. Otherwise who's Digger? Haha.

Isn't that Captain Boomerang? Digger Harkness? Or am I thinking of another show? I know that's a character's name somewhere. 

[looptab]

13 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Isn't that Captain Boomerang? Digger Harkness? Or am I thinking of another show? I know that's a character's name somewhere. 

Oh, okay. Could be - I totally forgot about him and can't remember his name to be honest, haha.

[Hiveminder]

2 hours ago, Angel12d said:

LMAO.

I have actually been waiting for a bastard child of Robert's to turn up though...

He's gotta have one, right? Like, at least one. If the writers don't have Robert's secret love child waiting in the wings then they just need to quit right now. Go learn carpentry or something, because you're not doing this writing a CW, superhero, comic based, soap opera thing right.