Spoiler Discussion Thread

[insomniadreams88]

We don't have anything about what's coming up for Lance right? Other than a photo showing he's going to be on Lian Yu?

[EmilyBettFan]

I thought James Bamford posted a photo on Instagram that shows the last episode is not all on the island. The photo was of the hospital corridor.

[lemotomato]

The hospital corridor photo was posted on the last night they were shooting 522. 

[tv echo]

MG has made two flipping-related comments in regard to Felicity, but for different episodes (the Delicity comment was made while they were filming 523)...

Quote

-- When asked for a word to describe Felicity in 522, MG replied: "Dead. Kidding. Seriously, I’d say… 'flipped.'” (Apr. 15, 2017 MG tumblr post, page 58 of Spoilers thread)

Quote

-- MG: "Last night, I was on set for a pretty cool Delicity scene. #flipover." (Apr. 14, 2017 MG tumblr post, page 58 of Spoilers thread)

So I'm confused.

[bijoux]

I think they're both likely referring to the same thing, he just got the episode numbers mixed up. And my mind went to a stunt involving flipping, nothing more intricate than that.

[tv echo]

Here's another question (that I don't know the answer to)...

We currently have a character topic thread for "Laurel Lance: Lawyer Extraordinaire?" That Laurel is dead. We don't know if E2 Laurel Lance, a/k/a Black Siren, was a lawyer, but she's a different person regardless. 

So, when Black Siren's regular role next season is no longer a spoiler, do we post comments about Black Siren in the existing "Laurel" thread? Or in the "Arrow Villains: They Failed This City" thread? Or will we need a new Laurel thread?

[way2interested]

I would think the Villains thread, since MG said she'd be an antagonist, and since even though she's a regular, not all regulars have character threads (Curtis and Chase don't have one, and they've actually been around this season, whereas we have no idea how much she's actually going to be around).

[Primal Slayer]

You can never have enough Laurel, regardless of the Earth lol. I think it would all depend on how big her role is next season and how much conversation it would spark (im sure plenty). She's in limbo right now since antagonist doesn't necessarily mean villain. I would assume Curtis and Chase would have one if they were actually talked about more and dissected on a more regular basis.

[statsgirl]

You could add "And All The Other Laurel's From All The Other Earths" to the end of her existing heading.

Edited April 16, 2017 by statsgirl

[wonderwall]

How is she in limbo? She came onto the show as a villain and she got punched out of the show as a villain... She's not in a limbo at all right now. 

[Chaser]

TC played a couple different characters. What did The Flash forum do?

I would just rename the LL thread.

Laurel Lance: Take...4?

Laurel Lance: The Noodle of the Arrowverse:

[leopardprint]

Dinah Laurel Lance: Always Trying To Destroy A World 

 

ETA: 

Alt-Laurel Lance: At Least She's Not Susan...

(sorry I can't help myself) 

Edited April 16, 2017 by leopardprint

[Primal Slayer]

1 hour ago, wonderwall said:

How is she in limbo? She came onto the show as a villain and she got punched out of the show as a villain... She's not in a limbo at all right now. 

She's in limbo when it comes to S6 which is what we are talking about. Marc has been careful not to say villain since she may not be a straight up villain. He's antagonist. She could be in the grey area and not so black/white. She's limbo. 

Edited April 16, 2017 by Primal Slayer

[Chaser]

But she's a villain now. They may go full redemption arc in S6 but as of this very moment, she's in the villain category.

[LeighAn]

5 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

She's in limbo. Marc has been careful not to say villain since she may not be a straight up villain. He's antagonist. She could be in the grey area and not so black/white. She's limbo. 

He did however say he agreed with someone who said Katie is better at playing a Villan then she was at playing Laurel Lance Saint on tumblr.

Regardless I think the point @wonderwall is making is that currently Black Siren IS a Villan working for the big bad Villan. Maybe she might be black and white next season but she's not right now.

[Primal Slayer]

6 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

He did however say he agreed with someone who said Katie is better at playing a Villan then she was at playing Laurel Lance Saint on tumblr.

Regardless I think the point @wonderwall is making is that currently Black Siren IS a Villan working for the big bad Villan. Maybe she might be black and white next season but she's not right now.

He agreed that Arrow needs a female villain. He also agreed that Katie did a good job at playing Black Siren.

And we were talking about S6, not the present so we're not talking about right now.

Edited April 16, 2017 by Primal Slayer

[leopardprint]

As @Angel12d reminds us, this show ain't that deep. 

So I totally agree with you, @Primal Slayer, that an antagonist doesn't necessarily mean a villain, but it is someone in opposition to the protagonist, and on Arrow, which tends to be pretty simplistic, it probably does mean a villain. 

Edited April 16, 2017 by leopardprint

[Primal Slayer]

7 minutes ago, Chaser said:

But she's a villain now. They may go full redemption arc in S6 but as of this very moment, she's in the villain category.

No one said anything about right now. TvEcho clearly stated S6. 

[apinknightmare]

Makes sense to me that if she ends the season as a villain, you put her in the villain category until that changes, if that changes in S6. 

[LeighAn]

From memory the tumblr post was someone saying how they use to hate Katies performance as Laurel but came to love her performance as Black Siren and then said they felt Katie performs better as a Villan to which Marc said Thank you and I agree with you about Katies performance. 

Sounds like he's agreeing with the person to me that she's better as a Villan. *shrug*

[EmilyBettFan]

She's not very versatile then. With a show that has multiple versions of characters, you sure need to find someone of quality to carry out different performances from different versions of themselves. 

[Primal Slayer]

Good thing they found the right girl. 

[Mellowyellow]

I'm really curious and excited about the pic of Felicity in fancy hair and the party dress. I am wondering if there is a party though or if it's just wardrobe over dressing Felicity.

Or maybe she goes on another date with Oliver (my heart! it's just too hopeful)

[wonderwall]

She's not in limbo right now because it hasn't been explicitly said on screen that she's redeemable (and headcanons don't count). Oliver thought she was but was proven wrong by the end of the episode. If she was deemed redeemable then they wouldn't have had Felicity punch her.

We'll see if she'll be in limbo by the end of the season. If she isn't then she won't be in limbo until we actually see it on screen in season 6. *shrugs*

And she's not just an antagonist. The girl tried to kill Felicity lmao. That's the definition of an antagonist who's a villain. I don't care if you're a fan of her or not, it's just a fact at this point. That could change if the writers want it to. But they haven't planted the seeds of a redemption arc yet.

Edited April 17, 2017 by wonderwall

[Primal Slayer]

If that was what was being talked about you'd be correct. 

[Cleanqueen]

Her fans only want redemption because they think she'll end up back on the team. I think the writers and EP's are pretty satisfied with Dinah and they don't seem like they'll replace her with BS on the team. 

The writers can give her a redemption and then have Barry send her back to her Earth, and voila there is the redemption you asked for. 

[statsgirl]

I feel like the logical choices would be to either keep her as a recurring villain, like Cupid, or redeem her and send her back to her Earth but you never can tell with these writers.  Malcolm Merlyn should have left after s3 but he's still around.  And still around.  (Although I do like him on LoT but that's with a storyline where he actually makes sense.)

And she's probably costing a lot less than in previous seasons.

Edited April 17, 2017 by statsgirl

[Mellowyellow]

I think she's going to be around for the entire show's run as much as anyone would like to think otherwise.

The actress wants to stay on Arrow and didn't find other permanent work during her hiatus so unlikely she's going to leave voluntarily. They are not going to write her off again so I don't think she's going anywhere.

[wonderwall]

1 hour ago, Cleanqueen said:

The writers can give her a redemption and then have Barry send her back to her Earth, and voila there is the redemption you asked for. 

This is what will most likely happen...

[Velocity23]

15 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

I think she's going to be around for the entire show's run as much as anyone would like to think otherwise.

The actress wants to stay on Arrow and didn't find other permanent work during her hiatus so unlikely she's going to leave voluntarily. They are not going to write her off again so I don't think she's going anywhere.

Its kind of a sad statement. Always have to wonder how they will actually use it. Because Matt Mittovich claimed a regular basically just means that they are available for all episode, and not necessary in the episodes.

[Trisha]

14 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Its kind of a sad statement. Always have to wonder how they will actually use it. Because Matt Mittovich claimed a regular basically just means that they are available for all episode, and not necessary in the episodes.

In the TV Line Facebook Live when they first announced it, MM and MA were talking about KC coming back and MA said "regular? That means a minimum of 13 episodes."  I think that's the standard regular TV star contract (unless it's one of those multiple-CW-shows contracts, which doesn't seem to have a minimum). I'm guessing she'll be used at least as much as WH was this season. 

[leopardprint]

I'm expecting she'll have about the same screen time as Thea did this season. Judging from the changes made for S5 and the direction the show is going, if they basically defanged Talia, who's at least B+ List to Prometheus' C List, they aren't going to have Black Siren as the main villain or focus major screentime on her. They can't bother to find storylines for Thea, the bare minimum for Felicity and they pressed fast forward on Tinah's intro. She'll probably get like a mini-arc in each half at most until they get distracted by the next shiny nonsense. Maybe she'll get the screen time allotted for Susan type characters. 

Edited April 17, 2017 by leopardprint

[Velocity23]

16 minutes ago, Trisha said:

In the TV Line Facebook Live when they first announced it, MM and MA were talking about KC coming back and MA said "regular? That means a minimum of 13 episodes."  I think that's the standard regular TV star contract (unless it's one of those multiple-CW-shows contracts, which doesn't seem to have a minimum). I'm guessing she'll be used at least as much as WH was this season. 

I would think they can have as little episode numbers as specified in the contract. 

[Morrigan2575]

13 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

I would think they can have as little episode numbers as specified in the contract. 

I used to think there was a minimum and 13 was the number but, apparently that's not true. The minimum is something they negotiate. There's also an "at will" statement which means the actor has to be available at will if/when the show decides to use them.

[Cleanqueen]

6 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I used to think there was a minimum and 13 was the number but, apparently that's not true. The minimum is something they negotiate. There's also an "at will" statement which means the actor has to be available at will if/when the show decides to use them.

Which I don't think will be an issue in her case. 

[Primal Slayer]

Last i checked awhile ago , SAG mentioned that for series regulars you have to have an X amount of episodes to be considered a series regular, that number being 13. So they would have to be available for the entire season if they space it out like Willa.

[bijoux]

3 minutes ago, Soulfire said:

The GA suit wasn't on the mannequin when Oliver announced that he was back on the team, was it?

[apinknightmare]

3 minutes ago, bijoux said:

The GA suit wasn't on the mannequin when Oliver announced that he was back on the team, was it?

No. Rene told him the wall could "Use a little more green, Hoss*." 

 

 

 

 

*ew, no no no no no

[wonderwall]

30 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Last i checked awhile ago , SAG mentioned that for series regulars you have to have an X amount of episodes to be considered a series regular, that number being 13. So they would have to be available for the entire season if they space it out like Willa.

How can that be? She was considered a series regular across all 3 shows this year and barely got 7 episodes...

[theOAfc]

2 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

I think she's going to be around for the entire show's run as much as anyone would like to think otherwise.

The actress wants to stay on Arrow and didn't find other permanent work during her hiatus so unlikely she's going to leave voluntarily. They are not going to write her off again so I don't think she's going anywhere.

I agree. I also think at this point the  EPs want her around after the huge backlash they got and the low ratings they get.

I mean being a cw show,as long as something gives them internet buzz they will desperately use it even if it's run its course. Even if it wont help ratings at all. 

[way2interested]

Just now, theOAfc said:

I agree. I also think at this point the  EPs want her around after the huge backlash they got and the low ratings they get.

I mean being a cw show,as long as something gives them internet buzz they will desperately use it even if it's run its course. Even if it wont help ratings at all. 

So the same for Olicity, then?

[Cleanqueen]

13 minutes ago, theOAfc said:

I agree. I also think at this point the  EPs want her around after the huge backlash they got and the low ratings they get.

I mean being a cw show,as long as something gives them internet buzz they will desperately use it even if it's run its course. Even if it wont help ratings at all. 

HUGE? by what standards? If they were concerned by the backlash, there would be no Dinah and LL would have been revived in the multiple possible ways presented across all the three shows..i.e Flashpoint, Spear of destiny etc.

She's not back because of backlash...

[theOAfc]

6 minutes ago, way2interested said:

So the same for Olicity, then?

Honestly,probably yes.

I believe majority of stuff they do the last years is a reaction to fans and ratings instead of an actual plan and a well thought journey. The more the ratings drop the more they need the internet buzz,that's how cw survives anyway. Here we are towards the end of s5 and LL fans and Olicity fans are still fighting about whats the romantic endgame in this show. The announcement about her being back as regular as well as the rumors about olicity reconciliation all created buzz both negative and positive.. EPs probably love it. Guggie is even back on tumblr . lol 

[Cleanqueen]

Olicity was never meant to stay dead, LL was and therefore still is. KC returning as a possible villain isn't the same as Olicity finally getting back together. 

[Sunshine]

Is that a stand alone glass case on the side?  Is it new?

[theOAfc]

3 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

HUGE? by what standards? If they were concerned by the backlash, there would be no Dinah and LL would have been revived in the multiple possible ways presented across all the three shows..i.e Flashpoint, Spear of destiny etc.

She's not back because of backlash...

I appreciate your confidence with this claim but needless to say i disagree. They did try with Dinah,they saw she didnt create any buzz and here they are bringing LL back again. They even teased her redemption arc back in 5x10. Also ratings dropped in 5b.

Of course lets agree to disagree.

The backlash last season was huge whether people admit it or not. Facebook was wild and im not talking just about the arrow page. Stephens page was full of hateful comments about the writing decision and whining  posts about her death. Top comments complaining about them killing Laurel had 3K likes,which is the most liked fan comments i have seen since s3 regarding arrow,in his page. I always thought LL was not such a popular character and i still think she is not a fan favorite. But the non passionate fandom fans are eailsy manipulated, always following the trend and last year the trend was to hate on olicity and love laurel. Personally i think the fans were upset with the season in general and had to put the blame on something so olicity and felicity were the easy targets,especially with Laurel stans spamming all pages. 

[bijoux]

8 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

Is that a stand alone glass case on the side?  Is it new?

It looks like stand alone cases from the original lair, but it's not new. It was there in 518 at least.

[Sunshine]

Thanks @bijoux

[Cleanqueen]

12 minutes ago, theOAfc said:

I appreciate your confidence with this claim but needless to say i disagree. They did try with Dinah,they saw she didnt create any buzz and here they are bringing LL back again. They even teased her redemption arc back in 5x10. Also ratings dropped in 5b.

Of course lets agree to disagree.

The backlash last season was huge whether people admit it or not. Facebook was wild and im not talking just about the arrow page. Stephens page was full of hateful comments about the writing decision and whining  posts about her death. Top comments complaining about them killing Laurel had 3K likes,which is the most liked fan comments i have seen since s3 regarding arrow,in his page. I always thought LL was not such a popular character and i still think she is not a fan favorite. But the non passionate fandom fans are eailsy manipulated, always following the trend and last year the trend was to hate on olicity and love laurel. Personally i think the fans were upset with the season in general and had to put the blame on something so olicity and felicity were the easy targets,especially with Laurel stans spamming all pages. 

Dinah trended on her first appearance on Arrow, so yes she created buzz. She'll never garner the same amount of buzz Felicity, Olicity or OTA have but majority of fans prefer her over LL. I believe only LL fans are against the character. And based on what the producers have been saying they're actually "excited" about keeping her.

If you thought that backlash was huge then you were only concentrating on limited platforms, her death didn't create the sort of buzz other major characters that get killed did. When the character can't trend in any shape or form across all media platforms then that isnt buzz.

If you're concerned about top comments on Arrow page then go see the Black Siren returning to Arrow comments and dislikes, majority of the fans on there don't want her back. 

And Stephen's page got the same arguments and backlash when Olicity broke up or whenever the show disrespects olicity in some fans eyes. 

The backlash wasn't about LL dying but rather the show killing their iconic black canary. Therefore if the show felt the heat they wouldn't be bringing back KC as a villain....redemption or not she's still not the Black Canary.

[LeighAn]

A HUGE backlash is the aftermath of Lexa dying on the 100 or Abby Mills dying/departing on Aleepy Hollow both who exited in the same season as Laurel and who had such a massive fandom back lash that the main stream media covered the fandom outrage and criticised the respective networks for allowing it to happen.

In the same season Laurel died pretty much around the same time as Lexa the CW President released a public statement defending the 100 writers and their choice to kill Lexa...he did not however make any public statements defending the death of Laurel Lance the greatest black canary who ever Canaried.

Thats the effects of a HUGE backlash.  The reddit boys tried their very best to make #nolaurelnoarrow a huge backlash but most of the were so busying blaming Olicity and "toxic" romance for killing laurel that #nobodycaredaboutnolaurelnoarrow