Spoiler Discussion Thread

[bijoux]

1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

Give the other villains someone to talk to?  Stand in the street and squat occasionally.  Taunt Quentin.  Buy nailpolish. She doesn't have to be around any more than Billy for most of the season.  

Maybe they can hook her up with China White, Cupid and Lady Cop. That way, according to historic evidence, she only gets to speak one in four times she shows up. Actually, Cupid going on about her crush on old Arrow and how this Green Arrow is lame might lead to a fun reaction from BS.

Right, I'm all bitched out about this. Returning to current spoilers, is Chase going to cement Oliver and Dig in that oatmeal pic?

[EmilyBettFan]

Am I the only one who doesn't care if she's a villain or not I just want her gone. So ridiculous. 

[looptab]

39 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Right, I'm all bitched out about this. Returning to current spoilers, is Chase going to cement Oliver and Dig in that oatmeal pic?

How very mafia of him. 

[Mellowyellow]

I keep seeing things about how Oliver is going to catch Felicity from the salmon ladder! I am new to Twitter! Is this wishful thinking or it might happen?

I need to sufficiently prepare myself if this will happen because OMG I will have like the BEST meltdown ever! 

Edited March 28, 2017 by Mellowyellow

[Featherhat]

Oh so they really didn't want me to see S6. A Laurel arc. Just nope.

[lemotomato]

58 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

I keep seeing things about how Oliver is going to catch Felicity from the salmon ladder! I am new to Twitter! Is this wishful thinking or it might happen?

I need to sufficiently prepare myself if this will happen because OMG I will have like the BEST meltdown ever! 

As far as I can tell, it's mostly speculation. People are connecting various bits of information to make a guess at what's going to happen. SA hinted at HVFF that Felicity was going to attempt the salmon ladder at one point. And then someone tweeted (with no varification) that some guy on reddit mentioned that the sex scene in 520 would have something to do with the salmon ladder.

[ladylaw99]

My problem with this whole situation is simple - I don't buy anything KC is selling. LL sucked as a lawyer, couldn't convince me she was a fighter so she sucked as BC and now BS well she is not strong enough to be a good villian on her own so there needs to be someone else which will probably out shine her.  As for the whole possible redemption arc well that isn't exactly  the writers strong suit. So I have no faith in their writing.

Wait and see how 5.22 or whatever epsiode she is in to determine if I will be able to handle her yet again.  All I know is there better be some good stuff coming for me to put up with this sh$t again.  

[Mellowyellow]

12 minutes ago, ladylaw99 said:

My problem with this whole situation is simple - I don't buy anything KC is selling. LL sucked as a lawyer, couldn't convince me she was a fighter so she sucked as BC and now BS well she is not strong enough to be a good villian on her own so there needs to be someone else which will probably out shine her.  As for the whole possible redemption arc well that isn't exactly  the writers strong suit. So I have no faith in their writing.

Wait and see how 5.22 or whatever epsiode she is in to determine if I will be able to handle her yet again.  All I know is there better be some good stuff coming for me to put up with this sh$t again.  

Are you a shipper?

If you are how much Olicity do you need to carry on?

If you aren't just ignore me!

[ladylaw99]

35 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Are you a shipper?

If you are how much Olicity do you need to carry on?

If you aren't just ignore me!

I never really thought about it but I guess I am.    For me Oliver is tolerable only with Felicity, so if that makes me a shipper well, so be it.

At this point, I need the whole shebang. I need them together and stay together. I don't need them front and centre but I do need the little things -signs of affection like 4a before it went to sh$ts.

If I need to put up with KC, I don't even care how Olicity reconcile.  And while we are at it I need OTA. I don't mean ever now and then, I mean every episode, a little bit goes a long way.

I don't watch Arrow for suspense and mind blowing stories that make me think, I do enough of that in the real world, but I do watch it to take me out of a stressful day. Arrow use to be fun and can be again for me if they bring on OTA and Olicity. :)

[Midnight Lullaby]

The problem for me is the story. If we look back they killed off Sara to make Laurel BC only to kill her, replace her and bring a different version of the same character back. In my eyes they wasted and are still wasting so much time on making a character I never even cared about work. I want to watch a good story, not the writers' attempts to make BC and KC work every year and failing. It's been five years, I'm tired.

[ladylaw99]

6 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

The problem for me is the story. If we look back they killed off Sara to make Laurel BC only to kill her, replace her and bring a different version of the same character back. In my eyes they wasted and are still wasting so much time on making a character I never even cared about work. I want to watch a good story, not the writers' attempts to make BC and KC work every year and failing. It's been five years, I'm tired.

I agree with you, for me she has been a failure ever single time and I really do not need to see it again because I am also tired in they trying to make something work that in my opinion will never work. 

[Sunshine]

7 hours ago, LeighAn said:

S6 big bad minion? Like Josh Gads character Le Fou was to Gaston in Beauty and the Beast who then in the final fight might switch sides? 

This could happen in 5.23. Just saying 

[tv echo]

I miss the episode reviews she used to write for Vulture...

I'm going to speculate and say that they're going for a shady Mick Rory-type character to join Team Arrow next season. So BS will be 'redeemed' in 6A (Oliver feels 'redeemed' this season, giving him even more hope that he can redeem BS) and will join Team Arrow in 6B (she'll get all the mean, snarky lines). However, you'll wonder if she's truly redeemed or just pretending - and by "redeemed," I don't mean that she'll magically turn into saintly E1 Laurel. I mean that she'll agree to help the team (or at least that what we'll think). Then, she could very well be next season's Evelyn and join up with the Big Bad ("curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!"). 

Remember these MG/WM comments on BS from January?

Quote

-- Interviewer (Natalie Abrams) said that Black Siren was definitely a villain, but one that Oliver still hoped to redeem, and asked whether they hope to explore a Black Siren redemption story down the line, MG: "Well, I will say that that was very intentional. You know, like I said, there's a good chunk of the end of the episode was about sort of putting, uh, Black Siren back in Oliver's orbit. Um, we could have very easily just have returned her to the pipeline in Central City. But, um, Oliver and us as writers wanted to keep Black Siren close. Um, you know, just yesterday in the writers' room we were talking about all the potential stories for Black Siren. So, um, you know, assuming, uh, Katie's up for it, you haven't seen the last of her, of Black Siren. I think there's a lot of interesting stuff, uh, to be done. At the end of the day, like, you know, just - going back to the point of toying with people's emotions - you know, we really do break story according to a very simple barometer, which is, 'Is it interesting?' You know, 'Do we have stories to tell?' Um, uh, Black Siren - there's a lot of potential there. I mean, you know, just this morning, driving into work, I was thinking about just how much I wanted to see a scene where, uh, Lance meets Black Siren. Um, I just think that would be, you know, really really rich, juicy emotional stuff. So, um, again with Katie's, uh - with Katie's, uh, participation, you haven't seen the last of her." (Superhero Insider podcast in Jan. 26, 2017 Entertainment Weekly article, page 52 of Spoilers thread)

Quote

-- On how much we'll be seeing Laurel for the rest of the season, WM: "We'll be seeing her when we come back in the first episode. Then, as always with Katie, if we find the right story, we bring her back and we want to have her on the show as much as possible. It has been proven by the recent events that she's obviously a huge fan favorite, and we love working with her. That said, she won't factor hugely into the back half of the season, but I think the way we brought her back and the twist and the reveal, will really help set the tone for the back half of the season for Oliver and Felicity emotionally, and also for how Prometheus operates." (Jan. 25, 2017 Mashable article, page 52 of Spoilers thread) 

I'm going with the theory (suggested upthread) that they wanted to do the BS redemption story, but probably couldn't squeeze it in this season, so they asked KC to return for a few episodes next season. However, she (or her reps) refused unless she got regular status.

I'm also jumping on board the theory that the Vigilante will turn out to be Tinah's "dead" partner, so that's why they want to keep Tinah around next season as well. 

Edited March 28, 2017 by tv echo

[bijoux]

I went through S1 regular and recurring cast members and these are the characters that haven't been seen since then.

• Yao Fei - dead
• Fyers - dead
• Carly - only mentioned after season 1
• Frank Chen
• McKenna Hall

Unless they're going to dig up the likes of Carter Bowen and his mom, or Max Fuller (I wouldn't be opposed to either, though I don't know that they fit the current tone of the show in general, or the season finale in particular), those should be the suspects for the hasn't been seen since S1 character appearance. Despite the death, Yao Fei is probably a safe bet. I wouldn't mind seeing Frank, though, even if I doubt he'd play much of a role.

[Chaser]

I am curious about how she fits in 22/23 because the last interview MG gave that mentioned BS (which was released a month ago), he said they hadn't even contacted her about reprising her role. Plus their previous comments about BS that implied they were done with her this season.

Then suddenly it's we knew we had to have her back right away because we were so impressed with her.

Yeah, this sounds thrown together.

I think they were planning on leaving the door open for the audience and possibly revisiting in S6, but not this full time, series regular talk.

I hope the other actors are getting sweet deals with this. 

[apinknightmare]

Since I'm postive they're not bringing BS back on to be a big bad, or a big bad's flunky, but to give her a "redemption," I could maybe be okay with them letting her be a snarky bitch most of the time after she's "redeemed", since I think playing that kinda of character is more in KC's wheelhouse. 

I'm concerned that they're basically going to try and turn her into E1 Laurel v. 2.0 because of the way they had Oliver talk about wanting to find whatever bit of "Laurel" in there he could. I mean, the premise is already laughable because Oliver didn't know that Laurel - so he wouldn't know if there was anything left of E1 Laurel since E2 Laurel might never have had any of that in the first place. And Oliver treated E1 Laurel like dirt most of the time, so I'm expecting her post-death sanctification to carry on into the remolding of the person he wants to take her place.

Add to that that E2 Laurel also dated E2 Oliver and that relationship ended in a seemingly less-bad place than E1's O/L did just based on the way she talked about him (IIRC she talked about him looking like the man she loved? But I could be wrong about that - and it could've been part of her trying to get some sympathy from Oliver), so are we going to have to sit through E2 Laurel reminiscing about another version of a guy she regularly interacts with who I'm guessing is going to be in a relationship with someone else at that point in time? I have zero hope that this won't be terrible and cringeworthy given the people who are writing it combined with KC's headcanon about O/L. Unless they just have her ragging on E1 Oliver's penchant for sisters or something. IDK.

[Hiveminder]

13 minutes ago, bijoux said:

I went through S1 regular and recurring cast members and these are the characters that haven't been seen since then.

• Yao Fei - dead
• Fyers - dead
• Carly - only mentioned after season 1
• Frank Chen
• McKenna Hall

Unless they're going to dig up the likes of Carter Bowen and his mom, or Max Fuller (I wouldn't be opposed to either, though I don't know that they fit the current tone of the show in general, or the season finale in particular), those should be the suspects for the hasn't been seen since S1 character appearance. Despite the death, Yao Fei is probably a safe bet. I wouldn't mind seeing Frank, though, even if I doubt he'd play much of a role.

You know what would be totally insane? If it's Tommy, and he's the real mastermind behind Prometheus. That's how Chase knows so much about Oliver. 

Yes, I know it will never happen, but leave me to my dreams. 

[bijoux]

Only downside is they're saying it's a character we haven't seen since S1 and Tommy has made appearances in flashbacks and hallucinations in later seasons.

[apinknightmare]

Do we trust that the person who said that has their show canon correct? 

[tv echo]

'Arrow’: Marc Guggenheim teases ‘major consequences’ for Felicity’s Helix alliance
LINDSAY MACDONALD  MARCH 28, 2017
http://screenertv.com/television/arrow-marc-guggenheim-major-consequences-felicitys-helix-alliance/

Quote

"They're a group of uber-hackers -- probably not on the side of the angels," Guggenheim says. "I think the thing with Helix is there will be major consequences for Felicity, major consequences for Felicity's relationship with Oliver, and the introduction of a new character who you probably have not seen the last of."

[theOAfc]

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

I'm going with the theory (suggested upthread) that they wanted to do the BS redemption story, but probably couldn't squeeze it in this season, so they asked KC to return for a few episodes next season. However, she (or her reps) refused unless she got regular status.

Basically. 

 

Personally i think this show doesnt care one bit about respecting show canon or continuity and if they want to do something, they will twist everything around,probably use a couple of character as their mouthpiece for the telling not showing they do and they will act like it was a plan all along. I expect everything with E2 Laurel especially with how they are paying attetnion to fans on their mentions.

Edited March 28, 2017 by theOAfc

[tangerine95]

I doubt very much that they cared that much to do a BS story so they gave KC a regular contract after killed off LL just to do it. Imo the only reason BS even exists is because they couldn't totally get rid of her so they invented an evil twin.Redemption arc makes more sense to me than big bad status but with MG implying Dinah is staying then I don't see a place on the team for BS who has the same name and power. 

Sounds like the helix storyline or its consequences might extend into season 6. Maybe we learn who is the leader of helix and thats the character they introduce. 

[leopardprint]

All this talk of redemption arcs and major consequences is making me break out the tinfoil. There isn't any actual support to Felicity leaving the show right? They just resigned a fired actress as her character's evil twin (how soapy!) so it's not like they don't make strange personnel decisions.

Edited March 28, 2017 by leopardprint

[BkWurm1]

Quote

I'm also jumping on board the theory that the Vigilante will turn out to be Tinah's "dead" partner, so that's why they want to keep Tinah around next season as well. 

I still think Pike makes most sense as Vigilante.  And MG did say we'd know the face under the mask.  I mean yes we would have seen Tinah's partner's face but we don't know him at all.  I do think everyone is on to something about him not being as dead as we think but Vigilante seems to have personal ties to Star City that wouldn't fit with the partner.

Edited March 28, 2017 by BkWurm1

[way2interested]

Just now, leopardprint said:

All this talk of redemption arcs and major consequences is making me break out the tinfoil. There isn't any actual support to Felicity leaving the show right? They just resigned a fired actress as her character's twin (how soapy!) so it's not like they don't make strange personnel decisions.

[Angel12d]

38 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Add to that that E2 Laurel also dated E2 Oliver and that relationship ended in a seemingly less-bad place than E1's O/L did just based on the way she talked about him (IIRC she talked about him looking like the man she loved? But I could be wrong about that - and it could've been part of her trying to get some sympathy from Oliver), so are we going to have to sit through E2 Laurel reminiscing about another version of a guy she regularly interacts with who I'm guessing is going to be in a relationship with someone else at that point in time? I have zero hope that this won't be terrible and cringeworthy given the people who are writing it combined with KC's headcanon about O/L. Unless they just have her ragging on E1 Oliver's penchant for sisters or something. IDK.

That sounds like a dumpster fire. Do not want. 

The prospect of a whole season of Oliver acting like he did in 510, wanting to find E1 Laurel in her E2 doppelgänger, does not fill me with joy. More like dread. 

Quote

"They're a group of uber-hackers -- probably not on the side of the angels," Guggenheim says. "I think the thing with Helix is there will be major consequences for Felicity, major consequences for Felicity's relationship with Oliver, and the introduction of a new character who you probably have not seen the last of."

Does this mean Helix is continuing into s6? IDK how I feel about that tbh. Also don't like the feeling that Felicity is gonna be made out to be the bad guy in all of this - the one in the wrong somehow. *eye roll*

[insomniadreams88]

2 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

That sounds like a dumpster fire. Do not want. 

The prospect of a whole season of Oliver acting like he did in 510, wanting to find E1 Laurel in her E2 doppelgänger, does not fill me with joy. More like dread. 

Same. Especially since E1 Laurel probably wouldn't want that because it would just show how easily replaceable she is. And really, who would be happy knowing that if they die, it's so easy to replace them, their friends just have to go pluck someone from another Earth, even if the other Earth's version was evil?

That's why I'm hoping that they keep her as a villain (and hopefully have her do something in 522/523 that firmly puts her in that role in Oliver's mind). I feel like any redemption arc that leads to her working with the team, even part-time, is just going to be awkward and messy and with an explanation that doesn't really make sense. Could it be done? Yes. Could it be done by the writers who have given us some of the messiest writing in the past 5 seasons? Well ... 

[Angel12d]

16 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Same. Especially since E1 Laurel probably wouldn't want that because it would just show how easily replaceable she is. And really, who would be happy knowing that if they die, it's so easy to replace them, their friends just have to go pluck someone from another Earth, even if the other Earth's version was evil?

That's why I'm hoping that they keep her as a villain (and hopefully have her do something in 522/523 that firmly puts her in that role in Oliver's mind). I feel like any redemption arc that leads to her working with the team, even part-time, is just going to be awkward and messy and with an explanation that doesn't really make sense. Could it be done? Yes. Could it be done by the writers who have given us some of the messiest writing in the past 5 seasons? Well ... 

I just can't believe we've gone from "death brings back stakes to the show" to replacing E1 Laurel with E2 Laurel. Because that's where it feels like it's heading and it just makes everything absolutely pointless - E1 Laurel included. So no matter how they do it, I can guarantee I'm gonna hate it.

Unless they keep her as a villain, which they should because that's more in KC's wheelhouse. I suppose they could make her Dinah's nemesis or something. IDK. But the thought of two screeching metas on the team? *shudder*

Edited March 28, 2017 by Angel12d

[leopardprint]

2 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

I feel like any redemption arc that leads to her working with the team, even part-time, is just going to be awkward and messy and with an explanation that doesn't really make sense

Yes, what is the conclusion of a redemption arc? She becomes S4 LL? This ain't Orphan Black. Also E1LL/OQ is deader than a doornail but E2LL/OQ is super ambiguous and unresolved especially if she turned evil because he died. How do they redeem her without at least discussing that? I can tell you that a 4th (5th?) rehash of the "epic" love of Laurel Lance and Oliver Queen is literally the last thing that interests me even if it's not any actual present day romance. 

Thanks for posting that,@way2interested.

[Primal Slayer]

I wonder if Helix is being set up as big bad for s6.

As far as Sirens possible redemption goes, im for it if they go a Faith route with it or make her like their version of Catwoman as an anti-hero. Redemption doesn't always mean that the claws get cut.

[Velocity23]

So are they gonna have enough money for all the CGI. Because we have Dinah, BS, Curtis. 

[tv echo]

Do you think that MG was talking about this guy, or someone else? ...

[Angel12d]

I thought he was talking more about Alena.

[Sunshine]

38 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I still think Pike makes most sense as Vigilante.  And MG did say we'd know the face under the mask.  I mean yes we would have seen Tinah's partner's face but we don't know him at all.  I do think everyone is on to something about him not being as dead as we think but Vigilante seems to have personal ties to Star City that wouldn't fit with the partner.

I liked the idea of Pike but I think he would be more concerned about collateral damage than Vigilante was shown to be.  I thought maybe more Dinah's guy because of the focus he gave her after he took out the limo.  Of course they were still trying to distract with Chase as Vigilante at that point.

[LeighAn]

The problem with Helix being a big bad is there's nobody for the 60000 masks to punch. But I could see them as a recurring Villan organisation like an evil Argus doppelgänger that come out every now and then for Felicity to battle. Maybe make them like Christopher Pelant in Bones.

Either that or they get taken over and absorbed into Team Arrow by Felicity.

[MaisyDaisy]

If they do redeem her into a slightly sassier LL, and she is in the team, it's just one more time they are showing us how easy female characters are interchangeable.

One of the issues I had with Dinah was how gross it was they essentially lifted LL out and neatly slid Dinah into her place.

The shows history of sliding from sister to sister, then LL SWFing SLs role all bothered me. This is more of the same, it feels like; 

"If you loved the original Laurel, your going to love her new and improved replacement (now with added sass), it will feel like we never killed her at all.....see how easy she slides right in?"

[AveMaria30]

Random thought but I was just thinking earlier today that having E2LL around is like The Flash who have a different version of Harrison Wells every season lol. On a more serious note, I do agree with whoever said the Arrow EP's may want a Mick Rory (aka snarky) type character on the show/team. I think that type of character would suit KC better. I don't want her there at all but it's probably better to prepare for it. Sigh

I'm curious where the Helix SL goes as it looks like it could have some consequences for s6.  

Edited March 28, 2017 by AveMaria30

[LeighAn]

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

 

I'm also jumping on board the theory that the Vigilante will turn out to be Tinah's "dead" partner, so that's why they want to keep Tinah around next season as well. 

Ever since 5x11 I've thought her boyfriend would end up not being dead and come back as a potential storyline for her so this wouldn't shock me.

[Angel12d]

So these major consequences for Felicity...Is she gonna be arrested or nah?

[BkWurm1]

28 minutes ago, tv echo said:

I know what they keep telling us but all we've seen is Felicity turning more to Helix to save people, most specifically, Oliver.  I'm not complaining about the disconnect, I prefer what's on screen but the interviews are always confusing. 

[leopardprint]

I hope this so called grief comes up in whatever conversation Oliver has with Felicity about backing off Prometheus. At least something about  how it's not just about Oliver/the City. 

Edited March 28, 2017 by leopardprint

[LeighAn]

Marc Wendy and Brian have all had contradictory reasons for Felicity spiralling into her dark arch but I think the ultimate reason is that they wanted to Felicity to be darker for plot so they could do their walking in Olivers shoes bit so Billy, Haven Rock, Oliver is all just the reasons they pull out to justify it.

[tv echo]

To clarify, MG said only that the person behind the Vigilante mask is someone that we've seen before, not someone we knew/know...

Quote

-- MG: “We know who it is, but we were kind of intrigued by the idea of having a mystery that led into the next season... We were excited at the prospect of just letting this play out for a little while longer, and it gives us something cool to do in Season 6. ... As a general rule, I’m not a fan of mystery characters who when you take off the mask the audience goes, ‘What a minute, I’ve never seen that person before in my life,' ... I’m probably not spoiling anything by saying whoever’s underneath the Vigilante mask, you’ve seen that person before.” (Mar. 26, 2017 ScreenerTV article, page 56 of Spoilers thread)

Edited March 28, 2017 by tv echo

[Sunshine]

I think Josh Segarra should come back and play Dorian Chase, brother of Adrian Chase who is Vigilante in New Earth.

[insomniadreams88]

My heart's breaking for Oliver here. 

[LeighAn]

2 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

My heart's breaking for Oliver here. 

Ah sigh. Olicity and OTA are just so much better then anything else on this show. Like even a short twenty second clip has me more interested then almost 70% of this season haha.

Fave part: Oliver telling Felicity to just go.

[ComicFan777]

Wow...I really missed emotive Oliver (especially with his Felicity voice)...wished we saw more of that this season.

[way2interested]

7 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

Fave part: Oliver telling Felicity to just go.

A little thrown by the fact that Chase literally told him that he could get into Felicity's apartment without them knowing yet he's telling her to go home despite Chase still being out there, but the feelings are all still there and SA is selling it, so OK.

[ComicFan777]

Oliver = not so bright

[insomniadreams88]

Just now, way2interested said:

A little thrown by the fact that Chase literally told him that he could get into Felicity's apartment without them knowing yet he's telling her to go home despite Chase still being out there, but the feelings are all still there and SA is selling it, so OK.

Yeah, I feel like a lot of this season is them just expecting Prometheus to not do anything? Sort of like in 509, when after they found out Evelyn betrayed them and Oliver moved Thea into the lair, everyone just apparently went home after Billy's death? No concern that Prometheus would strike? So it seems to be the same "logic" here: Chase just did something, so he's not going to do something right now?

Still, Oliver should tell Felicity that Chase was in her apartment.