Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Trisha]

15 minutes ago, finnaire said:

I'm perplexed about how Felicity could take down Prometheus using Helix in a way that Oliver would not like.

I'm sticking with my theory that she doesn't want to kill Chase, just bring him to justice, while Oliver's tactics are all about making sure Chase dies. There's clearly going to be some examination about Oliver's stance on killing because of the last ep so this is one way to start the convo. 

[lemotomato]

1 hour ago, theOAfc said:

They basically kinda ignored their romantic history for the most part or did their best to downplay it hoping viewers wont notice. Maybe that was because they wanted so much to prove this season they were writing away from the romance,trying to lure back certain fans. A large part of their hiatus PR was anti romantic olicity,with them shutting down most olicity related questions or being snarky to olicity fans.  

Or maybe they ignored Olicity questions because there was no Olicity on screen to talk about until now? 

I know there are many theories about why Olicity was treated the way it was this season, but in light of the recent episodes, it looks at least one of the reasons was to facilitate the storylines that we see unfolding now-- Oliver believing all the horrible things Chase says about him and Felicity getting involved in a shady organization. Neither of which could happen if Oliver and Felicity were in a relationship, or even the close friendship they had before, because they'd actually be communicating with each other and keeping the other in check. 

[leopardprint]

35 minutes ago, finnaire said:

I'm perplexed about how Felicity could take down Prometheus using Helix in a way that Oliver would not like

Use her supervirus or the missile launcher doodad from last season? Do they fight over who gets to go HAM on Chase? "Felicity, I am a dark monster who loves killing" "Oliver, I dropped a nuke on a town. You're a an amateur."

 

18 minutes ago, thegirlsleuth said:

The EPs claimed that the dynamic was one of two people who were engaged and then had to work together, but I never saw that on screen.  All I saw was the writers ignoring history.

Yes, the dynamic more lined up with people who'd had a one night stand or a more casual relationship. Ok guys, call me crazy, I think this might have worked better if DD had been the temporary LI. She shows up in town to avenge her BF. She butts head with GA but ooh he's intrigued. They commiserate over their darkness (Sara redux) blah blah... They mutually decide to go separate ways because they still love other people.

10 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

Or maybe they ignored Olicity questions because there was no Olicity on screen to talk about until now? 

For me, it's hard to ignore because Friend Olicity predates Romantic Olicity and it's shown that Felicity is still supporting him as a friend and he wasn't really making attempts? 

Edited March 25, 2017 by leopardprint

[thegirlsleuth]

9 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

Or maybe they ignored Olicity questions because there was no Olicity on screen to talk about until now? 

I know there are many theories about why Olicity was treated the way it was this season, but in light of the recent episodes, it looks at least one of the reasons was to facilitate the storylines that we see unfolding now-- Oliver believing all the horrible things Chase says about him and Felicity getting involved in a shady organization. Neither of which could happen if Oliver and Felicity were in a relationship, or even the close friendship they had before, because they'd actually be communicating with each other and keeping the other in check. 

I 100 percent agree that they couldn't have explored those to two storylines if they were together romantically, but I disagree that they couldn't have been friends.  Oliver has had his "I'm damaged beyond redemption" spirals with friends around, and Felicity is withholding information not only from Oliver but Diggle and Curtis, two people who she has close friendships with.  I still would have appreciated seeing why they weren't friends earlier in the season.

[leopardprint]

5 minutes ago, thegirlsleuth said:

I still would have appreciated seeing why they weren't friends earlier in the season.

I think the "mortal lock" conversation was supposed to address this but it (like so many other things) was never followed up on screen until 5x20.

Edited March 25, 2017 by leopardprint

[thegirlsleuth]

2 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

I think the "mortal lock" conversation was supposed to address this but it (like so many other things) was never followed up on screen.

I think that conversation was so big picture, without getting into the details of what happened between them, that it didn't feel like that to me.

[lemotomato]

2 minutes ago, thegirlsleuth said:

I 100 percent agree that they couldn't have explored those to two storylines if they were together romantically, but I disagree that they couldn't have been friends.  Oliver has had his "I'm damaged beyond redemption" spirals with friends around, and Felicity is withholding information not only from Oliver but Diggle and Curtis, two people who she has close friendships with.  I still would have appreciated seeing why they weren't friends earlier in the season.

The last time Oliver's self-doubt/bad decisions played out as a major storyline was in season 3, when he was once again keeping things from his friends. He had moments of self-doubt in 2x21 and 2x22, but then they were resolved almost immediately because Felicity and Digg were there to tranq him to keep him from doing something stupid in the former, and Felicity gave him a pep talk in the latter.

And yes, Felicity has been withholding from Digg and Curtis, but her friendships with them have also been downplayed this season, evidently, to isolate her and drive her to wanting to work with Helix.

[leopardprint]

9 minutes ago, thegirlsleuth said:

I think that conversation was so big picture, without getting into the details of what happened between them, that it didn't feel like that to me.

I agree with you, I think that was the better time and place to go a little deeper with it. 

It just occurred to me, could the strategic disagreement be over Felicity using herself as bait? She's been pretty self-sacrificial already this season. 

[Morrigan2575]

I guess this is their justification for continuing to use guns and glorify gun violence on Arrow

[bethy]

*eyeroll* Sure. They've been using tranq guns in all the gun battles in the last however many episodes.

[statsgirl]

As soon as I read that Oliver doesn't want Felicity to do it her way I thought it would be something that would put her in danger.  He was okay with her getting kidnapped by Slade to take him down but Chase is a completely different thing.

1 hour ago, Trisha said:

I'm sticking with my theory that she doesn't want to kill Chase, just bring him to justice, while Oliver's tactics are all about making sure Chase dies. There's clearly going to be some examination about Oliver's stance on killing because of the last ep so this is one way to start the convo. 

Possibly this too but by this point, Felicity knows that sometimes  you have to kill the villain (e.g. DD) to be sure he's gone.

1 hour ago, leopardprint said:

I think the "mortal lock" conversation was supposed to address this but it (like so many other things) was never followed up on screen until 5x20.

What does "mortal lock" even mean?  If it was supposed to tell the audience they're endgame, it failed miserably.

1 hour ago, lemotomato said:

I know there are many theories about why Olicity was treated the way it was this season, but in light of the recent episodes, it looks at least one of the reasons was to facilitate the storylines that we see unfolding now-- Oliver believing all the horrible things Chase says about him and Felicity getting involved in a shady organization. Neither of which could happen if Oliver and Felicity were in a relationship, or even the close friendship they had before, because they'd actually be communicating with each other and keeping the other in check. 

I think they could have done it while keeping the friendship.  Oliver still feels badly because he killed Billy and Felicity is reluctant to talk to him because he's seeing Susan now.  But I don't see why they needed to have the "robotic coldness" that the show portrayed and which I think lost them a not inconsiderable number of viewers.

[Morrigan2575]

Quote

What does "mortal lock" even mean?  If it was supposed to tell the audience they're endgame, it failed miserably.

Mortal Lock = Certainty/Sure thing, Sure bet.

[LeighAn]

3 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Mortal Lock = Certainty/Sure thing, Sure bet.

Ergo yes it was to tell the audience that Olicity is endgame just like the red pen flash back, the 100th episode flashbacks and Smoak Technologies/Felicity being the "way home" for Oliver etc

[statsgirl]

And then Oliver and Felicity proceeded to act  as if they barely knew each other.  So after saying it was a sure bet, the writers proceeded to show that it wasn't in the least.

Quote

just like the red pen flash back, the 100th episode flashbacks and Smoak Technologies/Felicity being the "way home" for Oliver etc

If you weren't desperately searching for Olicity clues, you missed it, especially the 100th episode when Oliver was going to marry Laurel and barely acknowledged Felicity.  Most people don't watch TV as if they're searching for clues in the Da Vinci Code. The general audience took away from the first 9 episodes this season, or maybe even to the current episode, that Olicity was over.

Edited March 25, 2017 by statsgirl

[Morrigan2575]

3 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

Ergo yes it was to tell the audience that Olicity is endgame just like the red pen flash back, the 100th episode flashbacks and Smoak Technologies/Felicity being the "way home" for Oliver etc

Absolutely.

[leopardprint]

I interpreted the "mortal lock" thing as they're still friends who care about each not so much hinting at endgame. However, maybe they left it ambiguous because they hadn't decided yet and now it will be addressed in 519 and 520.

Edited March 25, 2017 by leopardprint

[Velocity23]

IMO they always planned the reunion this season.  It was never up for discussion. They just wanted Olicity to be on their own paths for the majority of the season and then reunite them. 

[calliope1975]

1 minute ago, Velocity23 said:

IMO they always planned the reunion this season.  It was never up for discussion. They just wanted Olicity to be on their own paths for the majority of the season and then reunite them. 

Agreed. I think the writers are terrible and while I may have harbored a few doubts, I think there's been enough hints along the way that this reconciliation isn't a surprise to me at all. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

I think they have always planned to bring them back together too. MG basically told jbuffy at the beginning of the season saying Olicity fans were going to have to take the good and the bad..but with the way they went about it I had strong doubts until the mid season finale. I think they wanted to appease people that claimed to hate romance thinking the little hints were going to be enough for those that liked it until the time was right. I think they should have explained what happened between them at the beginning of the season..people would have complained anyway as it always happens but the characters' behavior wouldn't have looked so weird. I can't speak for any other viewer but that was a major turn off for me. If something doesn't make sense to me I lose interest.

[Mellowyellow]

After 505 I really doubted whether they would get together. I thought the mortal lock conversation was about them being friends always. After all you can say he'd always care about his friends. 

Then the rumours about  the new bird I was so convinced they'd try GA/BC. The only thing that gave me hope was the more positive forum members (who had good reasoning) telling me Olicity wasn't dead and convincing me they had watched enough TV to know when to throw in the towel!

That's bad writing and publicity if your audience needs help to keep the faith!

[tangerine95]

Yeah I never thought they won't get back together at some point but the way they went about it is pretty bad. Since the interviews for season 5 and when the first episodes aired, it was clear to me their idea was to avoid any type of drama or angst which is just unrealistic for a relationship that went as far as almost getting married. I think they totally thought a season 1 or 2 type dynamic would be enough for people until they decided to start writing towards a reunion and they didn't consider that that won't work after what they wrote in the past 2 seasons especially. 

I actually like the idea of parallel storylines that connect and bring them closer at the end but the issue is that they went too subtle with it imo and overdid it with giving both Felicity and Oliver useless temp relationships that lasted way too long. I think it would have been enough if they had occasional clear reminders they still love each other and hurt to be apart like we got in season 3 and if we got more than one episode with some focus on their romantic relationship. We had stuff that's kind of that but i think it wasn't clear as in season 3. I did take the mortal lock line as something they meant as reassuring for olicity reuniting but I can see why someone wouldn't because having Oliver say he cares about Felicity is pretty weak compared to lines they got in season 3 and 4. And I did take the fb in 5. 09 as endgame confirmation and a hint they'll get married eventually but looking at the rest of the episode and how things have been since 4. 15, it wasn't enough imo. 

[insomniadreams88]

I think one of the problems is also the seemingly questionable choices made when it comes to what they spent screentime on and what they haven't thus far and won't be revealed for some time.

For example, we're not finding out until episode 20 what happened over the summer between Oliver and Felicity. We had an entire episode about Vigilante, but now we're not going to find out who's behind the mask until S6, and that's obviously because they wanted people to think he was Chase before the Prometheus reveal. Now that that's out of the way, it's like "Vigilante who?"

Sometimes I feel like they forgot certain things exist(ed), like the corrupt cops, ACU, Billy, Evelyn, etc. until they throw them in again. Where has Evelyn been this entire time? Will they even address that?

It's so important for new recurring characters (Susan, Rene, Tinah) to have jobs and for there to be multiple conversations about their jobs, but not for series regulars who are the smartest people around (Felicity, Curtis) to even address their unemployment other than during an awkward attempt at a cover story. We couldn't even get one conversation or a couple lines of dialogue about that?

Things like that do make me question whether certain things were planned or not.  

[statsgirl]

I assumed that the EPs weren't such idiots to throw away one of the best aspects of their show, although you never can tell with this bunch.  But for me the question is not whether I was right but how many people gave up on the show of the bad planning and writing this season.  I know two.

10 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

It's so important for new recurring characters (Susan, Rene, Tinah) to have jobs and for there to be multiple conversations about their jobs, but not for series regulars who are the smartest people around (Felicity, Curtis) to even address their unemployment other than during an awkward attempt at a cover story. We couldn't even get one conversation or a couple lines of dialogue about that?

They really are like little children, playing with their shiny new toys and thinking that if they throw a cover over something, no one will know it's there.

[leopardprint]

6 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

We had an entire episode about Vigilante, but now we're not going to find out who's behind the mask until S6

I'm taking a guess that they haven't decided like the S4 grave.

15 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

I think one of the problems is also the seemingly questionable choices made when it comes to what they spent screentime on and what they haven't thus far and won't be revealed for some time.

Yes, it's so weird what they choose to spend time on. Were all those scenes of shady Susan being shady really just to set up Oliver making Thea/Felicity feel bad for being good judges of character? They could have shown that she is not shady by not having her act shady!!!! If she is only in 2 more episodes that already sound packed, that's a lot of setup for what I am sure will be dumb payoff. I am wracking my brain trying to come up with anything that would justify the time spent on her. She's going to be the S6 villain? She's gonna get a spinoff about superhero reporting?

[Morrigan2575]

Quote

It's so important for new recurring characters (Susan, Rene, Tinah) to have jobs and for there to be multiple conversations about their jobs, but not for series regulars who are the smartest people around (Felicity, Curtis) to even address their unemployment other than during an awkward attempt at a cover story. We couldn't even get one conversation or a couple lines of dialogue about that?

I think that comes down to necessity. The show has to take the time to develop the new characters in order to make them "real". Felicity, Curtis, Diggle have already been established so they don't feel the need to put much effort into them. 

It's stupid and lazy but MG is always about plot over character. He really seems to want to spend as little time on character building/rounding as possible, IMO.

Edited March 25, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[TwistedandBored]

I didn't doubt Olicity will reunite in the future but the way they went about it was just weird. So, I do think there is some course correction in their writing for Olicity though. They were going to reunite Olicity but now they have to answer audience questions like why these two were so cold with one another and acted like they have never been engage. 

[Trisha]

2 hours ago, statsgirl said:

If you weren't desperately searching for Olicity clues, you missed it, especially the 100th episode when Oliver was going to marry Laurel and barely acknowledged Felicity.  Most people don't watch TV as if they're searching for clues in the Da Vinci Code. The general audience took away from the first 9 episodes this season, or maybe even to the current episode, that Olicity was over.

This. The only people I know who are still watching are my sister and two coworkers, and  I like to think of them as the "general audience" barometer because none of them read interviews, follow the show on social, etc. I recently suggested to them that I think Olicity will reunite by the season finale (without mentioning 520 because I don't want to spoil anything) and they all disagreed with me. Vehemently. The 509 flashback didn't even register with them and "mortal lock" isn't a common enough phrase to mean anything. If/when it happens, it's goIng to come as a surprise to most. I think if they had done a better job of foreshadowing/pacing, they wouldn't have bled so many viewers. 

However positively the season ends, it won't negate the fact that the journey to get there was poorly plotted. 

[way2interested]

3 minutes ago, Trisha said:

This. The only people I know who are still watching are my sister and two coworkers, and  I like to think of them as the "general audience" barometer because none of them read interviews, follow the show on social, etc. I recently suggested to them that I think Olicity will reunite by the season finale (without mentioning 520 because I don't want to spoil anything) and they all disagreed with me. Vehemently. The 509 flashback didn't even register with them and "mortal lock" isn't a common enough phrase to mean anything. If/when it happens, it's goIng to come as a surprise to most. I think if they had done a better job of foreshadowing/pacing, they wouldn't have bled so many viewers. 

However positively the season ends, it won't negate the fact that the journey to get there was poorly plotted. 

I mean, anecdotal evidence is anecdotal evidence, but all of my general audience friends (7 of them, mix of guys and girls) all assumed that Oliver and Felicity would get back together at some point just because TV's gonna TV. The fact that Oliver and Felicity had love interests that pretty much had the word "TEMP" tattooed on their foreheads solidified it for them (they were iffy pre-501 but the ambiguous question about their relationship and Felicity's sudden bf had them convinced they weren't over, just that they were going to really drag it out for the season). They were still ticked off at stuff going on in 5a, but despite everything they believed that they were getting together again and were just waiting for the show to acknowledge it already so we could finish that plot already (and ask me if there were any spoilers that showed they were finally finishing the reporter plot/the Oliver and Felicity get back together plot). From their reactions early on, I partially assumed that the writers were just expecting the audience to deal with it because shows do horrible plot stuff with their couples all the time. Definitely still off-putting, but I think that might have been what they were going for.

[Trisha]

26 minutes ago, way2interested said:

I mean, anecdotal evidence is anecdotal evidence, but all of my general audience friends (7 of them, mix of guys and girls) all assumed that Oliver and Felicity would get back together at some point just because TV's gonna TV.

But do your friends think it'll be this season?  I think mine assume it may happen at some point, but would be shocked if it's in the next few episodes because the build up has been so subtle/non-existent. 

[way2interested]

4 minutes ago, Trisha said:

But do your friends think it'll be this season?  I think mine assume it may happen at some point, but would be shocked if it's in the next few episodes because the build up has been so subtle/non-existent. 

Oh they definitely think it'll be this season. Pre-501 they were thinking it could be a "get back together in the series finale" thing or that something in s5 would make it clear that Oliver's going to be permanently alone, but 501 made it clear to them that they were going to seriously address it at some point this season. The last few episodes (since 509 and going off of 516 with Oliver being concerned for Felicity and not Susan and 517 with Felicity being Oliver's most brought up friend during his torture) had them convinced that they're going to actually address it pretty soon (and they don't even know about 520) and then subsequently start off slowly in a relationship again.

Edited March 26, 2017 by way2interested

[statsgirl]

My kid thinks Oliver and Felicity will get back together but she's stopped watching the show with me until they do.

I was thinking about ER in connection to shipping and clues. In season 7, all the clues were there that Abby and Luka were endgame but they broke up at the end of the season and Abby started dating Carter and in spite of the many, many hints that season that they were wrong for each other, I still read a lot of people thinking Abby and Carter should have ended up together.

You can't trust viewers to read the signs.

[Mellowyellow]

7 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

My kid thinks Oliver and Felicity will get back together but she's stopped watching the show with me until they do.

Awww it's so cute that you and your kid ship together!!!! Will she watch 520 with you ?

[Cleanqueen]

It's funny cause when I complained about Olicity early on in the season my comic book obsessed little brother and father kept telling me to stop freaking out and that it was clearly going to happen this season. I used to get so irritated with Susan and their response was always "they're trying to show why no other woman but felicity will work for him". I Stopped complaining cause I came off pretty annoying. But I think the only people who thought they would never revisit it were die hard olicity haters and olicity fans who thought they were catering to die hard haters. I think some people just stopped watching cause olicity was probably the only reason they watched and the story in season 5 wasn't doing it for them anymore.

[statsgirl]

That's an impressive father and brother.  Maybe MG is writing to them.

1 hour ago, Mellowyellow said:

Awww it's so cute that you and your kid ship together!!!! Will she watch 520 with you ?

I'm not sure.  520 is just a directional marker, not an actual reconciliation.

[wonderwall]

I honestly don't think the writers write towards anyone but themselves and write what they like and what they feel is necessary. Sometimes the audience gets it, sometimes the audience doesn't. Why else would the writers/EPs so surprised by a lot of audience reactions?

[LeighAn]

15 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

I honestly don't think the writers write towards anyone but themselves and write what they like and what they feel is necessary. Sometimes the audience gets it, sometimes the audience doesn't. Why else would the writers/EPs so surprised by a lot of audience reactions?

Matt Mitovich: Hey Wendy people hate Wild Dog and pretty much all the newbies except Rory. 

Wendy: Huh? 

That will forever be my favourite "I had no idea" reaction from the writers.

[finnaire]

2 hours ago, Cleanqueen said:

It's funny cause when I complained about Olicity early on in the season my comic book obsessed little brother and father kept telling me to stop freaking out and that it was clearly going to happen this season. I used to get so irritated with Susan and their response was always "they're trying to show why no other woman but felicity will work for him". I Stopped complaining cause I came off pretty annoying. But I think the only people who thought they would never revisit it were die hard olicity haters and olicity fans who thought they were catering to die hard haters. I think some people just stopped watching cause olicity was probably the only reason they watched and the story in season 5 wasn't doing it for them anymore.

Bingo. I think if you're watching the show through a lens wanting to see/waiting for certain events to happen, you are never going to be satisfied with the way the story is told.   You worry that it's never going to happen, or it didn't happen soon enough or it should have happened one way and they were stupid not to do it another way.  Anticipation, expectatiion, dissatisfaction and disappointment overwhelm actual enjoyment and IMO, distort perception of the show.  I, personally have had two main problems with the show this season. First, I absolutely loathed Wild Dong and vowed the character could never be redeemed for me. The EPs must have listened to the feedback because they've made significant adjustments and have managed to get me to actually refer to him by his given name.  Still don't care if he leaves or dies but at least I don't rage at the TV any more. Second is Susan. I'll never get over thinking she's shady but, Diggle's answer to Oliver about him being lonely went a long way towards my forgiving his stupidity.  Since she's still in the picture, I need to see if she really is shady or if the writers totally whiffed it.**

As far as O/F, I always assumed they would get them back together because I've never doubted since mid S1 they were OTA.  Since I "know" this, I haven't been worrying about how, when or why. I figured it would happen eventually.  I have noticed the major progression of their relationship throughout the season. Early on they argued incessantly and even got mean with each other.  In the first episode alone they had four scenes together and three of them were major arguments (no, I didn't completely remember, I went back and checked). They eventually were able to conduct civil conversations but they still sniped. Early on they barely went near each other. Felicity started getting physically closer to where she was actually touching him. It's fuuny, that recent scene where Oliver demanded she help him with Susan caused such an uproar over his presumption it was barely noticed/mentioned that was the first time this season he had gotten into her physical space like he used to.  This progression that started in the first episode of the season indicates to me that it was always the intention to get them back together. Since I don't watch the show explicitly/primarily/especially for Olicity, the timing hasn't bothered me. I've liked the story they've been telling, minus my issues above.  I am, however, really curious to find out what could have happened over the summer to put O/F at odds with each other.  They had sex and? Made a pact not to do it again?  Got too drunk and embarrassed to ever speak of it again?  To ever look each other in the eye again?  The seething, sexual tension prevents them from being more than civil?  Hopefully, it's not so mundane.  But, now that I know I 'm going to find out I really, really want to know.

**There may always be the question whether BTS antics with WH forced them to change gears which caused the whole cluster$uck of a revised storyline.

Edited March 26, 2017 by finnaire

[BkWurm1]

4 hours ago, finnaire said:

But I think the only people who thought they would never revisit it were die hard olicity haters and olicity fans who thought they were catering to die hard haters.

I really felt like the second part couldn't be ruled out from the way they were talking over the summer.  Especially when the new BC stuff came up and the "you can't tell GA without BC".  It felt like the rhetoric had been hijacked (and it may have though for a different reason) but once I saw the first episode of the season, I was feeling pretty confident that Olicity would return.  Still, the show gave so little to subsist on in the meantime, it was hard not to waver in that certainty at times. 

[Belinea]

23 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Especially when the new BC stuff came up and the "you can't tell GA without BC".

This is still bugs me... Not that they said it but that I felt that she literally had little to no impact on GA. She helps the team but anyone could have been added to do that.

Also, is there a possibility that the reporter was just around for so long because the producers like Carly Pope?

As far as WH being around, I do believe that for some reason she got into trouble with the producers or the CW/WB and therefore they limited her presence this season. 

Edited March 26, 2017 by Belinea

[Mellowyellow]

Ooh @Belinea what could she gave gotten in trouble for? Is she a wild child or something?

[Belinea]

19 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

what could she gave gotten in trouble for? Is she a wild child or something?

Not that I know of. Just speculating. But as far as wild child goes, I don't know but her instagram doesn't scream vanilla. She seems like she has her own style, that is all.

Another option could be that the producers simply didn't know how to use her character this season.

Edited March 26, 2017 by Belinea

[tv echo]

I have never understood using S1 as a template for "back to basics" glory if you mean "no relationship drama" and just gritty street fighting all the time.  IMO, S1 was the most soap opera-y of all five seasons. S1 had all of the following:  guy cheated on girlfriend with girlfriend's sister, dad committed suicide, girlfriend's sister dies, guy presumed dead, guy shipwrecked on tropical island, guy comes back from the dead, guy's sister is doing drugs, guy's mom married dad's friend, guy's mom conspired with dad's other friend to sabotage boat, guy's girlfriend now dating guy's best friend, classic love triangle of guy, girl and best friend, best friend sees guy having sex with girl, and best friend dies saving girl.

My speculation about this season is that MG and WM spent so much time working out the Big Bad storyline (plotting out their "chess game" about Prometheus and how he would drive Oliver to the brink, with all the twists and turns they wanted) that they neglected all other aspects of the show, including character development/consistency and subplot development.  Maybe MG was just too busy or spread too thin over multiple projects to devote as much time to Arrow as it needed (not only LoT, but also Trollhunters, and his multiple comic books that came out over the past year). 

Edited March 26, 2017 by tv echo

[LeighAn]

And the funny thing is, I don't know about anybody else but I only actually became interested in Prometheus as the big bad Villan like up until the last three episodes with the Chase reveal. Before that he was- like many and much this season- just there.

[insomniadreams88]

23 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

And the funny thing is, I don't know about anybody else but I only actually became interested in Prometheus as the big bad Villan like up until the last three episodes with the Chase reveal. Before that he was- like many and much this season- just there.

Or not there and apparently taking frequent vacations from Prometheus-ing. 

[GirlvsTV]

My spec about this season is that the writers are terrible. When viewers don't respond or react the way they anticipated, it's always the viewers' fault and not the writing. If the writers can't acknowledge their screw-ups and learn from them, the show is never going to get any better. 

I am intrigued with the possibility of the finale being set on Lian-Yu. I had kind of been hoping we'd get something like that at the end of last season.

[wonderwall]

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

 

I have never understood using S1 as a template for "back to basics" glory if you mean "no relationship drama" and just gritty street fighting all the time.  IMO, S1 was the most soap opera-y of all five seasons.

 

While I do think that they used season 1 as a template for this season (which... why? IDK) I don't think the writers meant to go 'back to basics' at all. Didn't Stephen say that "back to basics" was just a PR line that doesn't really mean much?

I just think the whole "back to basics" thing was such a failure. Why let CWPR come up with tag lines for the season when they don't know anything about it is a mystery to me... Especially considering the CWPR is completely and utterly incompetent. 

Edited March 26, 2017 by wonderwall

[theOAfc]

18 hours ago, lemotomato said:

Or maybe they ignored Olicity questions because there was no Olicity on screen to talk about until now? 

 

They didnt ignore olicity questions,they shut them down even being snarky to fans. Its all about the attitudes. In s3 they didnt have this attitude at all even though they would pretend  that olicity might not become a couple eventually,whenever they were asked.

 

15 hours ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

I think they have always planned to bring them back together too. MG basically told jbuffy at the beginning of the season saying Olicity fans were going to have to take the good and the bad..but with the way they went about it I had strong doubts until the mid season finale. I think they wanted to appease people that claimed to hate romance thinking the little hints were going to be enough for those that liked it until the time was right. I think they should have explained what happened between them at the beginning of the season..people would have complained anyway as it always happens but the characters' behavior wouldn't have looked so weird. I can't speak for any other viewer but that was a major turn off for me. If something doesn't make sense to me I lose interest.

I kinda agree with this. If they indeed put them back together or almost put them back together this season,ill be 99% sure they had planned from start to eventually bring them back together(thats not without saying i dont believe a potential GA/BC romance was on the back of their minds in case people showed any overwhelming love towards the dynamic-they do pay attention to feedback and react accordingly after all). That being said,the axecution tells me that they tried too much to earn back certain people by harming the dynamic, hoping olicity fans would stick around for the endgame ,enjoying the little teases ala s2. It didnt work for many who are here for a good build up and overall journey,including me. 

I could go on to explain why i think the show completely failed with this dynamic but this board has mentioned all the issues again and again and eventually its up to whether or not people are willing to ignore terrible writing as long as their favorite couple gets back together. Im sure  there are some that genuinely love the way they are handled though. Thats respected.

18 hours ago, leopardprint said:

Yes, the dynamic more lined up with people who'd had a one night stand 

That was my issue from the start of the season. I literally saw casual viewers on facebook asking if flashpoint erased their romantic history. Its also why them suddenly dealing  in one episode after so much time, with what happened before s5 started, might seem out of nowhere because during the whole season the show tried to sell Oliver and Felicity had zero issue moving on and remaining friends. We never saw the  struggle or how they got from being awkward to being work buddies. A filler episode  seems more like a reaction to feedback than them building to anything. 

Edited March 26, 2017 by theOAfc

[LeighAn]

From the moment they said the "back to basics" line at SDCC I've always understood it as a return to the gritty fight scenes and more intense action from season 1 and nothing more. I agree it was a talking point given to them by the CW pr people.

[tangerine95]

Back to basics made no sense apart from the villain doesn't use magic or have superpowers which I think was what they meant. Everything else had nothing in common with season 1 basics. The team was more crowded than ever, they added Rory who used magic and Tinah who is a meta and Curtis who uses tech weapons. So pretty far from gritty fights with just Oliver and sometimes Digg like it was in season one.Plus season 1 was full of romantic and family drama which they also did everything to avoid so nothing like season 1 there either. It's more like an emotionless version of season 3 tbh. 

More than the back to basics line they kept pushing, what  was weird to me was how they talked about stunts as if it was a storyline. Like someone would ask them what's coming up or something and one of the EPs or SA would go on and on about amazing stunts.  Or all that stuff about how the city is most important relationship to Oliver when Prometheus is such a personal villain and his whole plan of breaking Oliver has zero to do with the city but with his own fears and the threat to people he cares about. Their whole promo for this season is just crazy to me, it barely made sense to what was actually on screen. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

I think too the "back to basics" was referred to the fighting scenes and a more grounded show after magic was a big part of season 4 and with the main villain being a normal man it makes sense related to him. Of course there's also flashpoint that changed a girl into a boy, a guy with magic rugs, human target so it wasn't an entirely accurate selling point.

I think maybe they received a negative feedback on the magical element and on the relationship drama and they tried to go in the opposite direction. In the end even if they write from their POV, so what they think it's going to work, a show is done to make money so who is in charge can't ignore feedback. Of course then the problem becomes understanding what didn't work and what people want to see.