Spoiler Discussion Thread

[calliope1975]

46 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

Per that new WM, I wonder if Felicity will be the one to kill Chase. Though again, when did Felicity harshly judge the others for putting down bad guys? In S1 she locked Oliver in the lair but other than that? I don't remember her judging Diggle. Also that's pretty irritating that she's not allowed to make their mistakes. 

Now, I'm wondering if Felicity will kill Chase, too, and Kovar or Talia is the bigger bad of the season. That would certainly go along with Felicity needing to understand Oliver more. Which...whatever. I do think that could be worth exploring, though.

Gah, the Spawn will never go away. I hope he finds out about GA, hates his dad, and leaves forever. I also hope they recast that kid with a better actor. I've seen Stranger Things - they exist. 

[leopardprint]

5x21 is the "fathers" episode right? Perhaps he tracks W/S down to warn them about Prometheus? Or it could be part of a dream sequence?

Could they be setting up a S2 redux where he has to choose between saving William or saving Felicity?

Edited March 25, 2017 by leopardprint

[catrox14]

7 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Also, Bamford becoming a producer? I see the dudebro club is alive and well.

Honestly, this does not endear me at all. I don't like his directing style. IMO he does too much jump cutting and the fights LOOK overly choreographed, which is weird given he's been the stunt coordinator since 2013.

I really enjoyed the fights more this season because it's been the more brutal one on one fights a la s1 and s2 instead of the big set pieces which are cool but they shout "LOOK IT'S A BIG FIGHT'. 

[Sunshine]

MG said earlier that they weren't having Felicity kill someone. She could however hack something that exposes William and Samantha to Prometheus.

[leopardprint]

Ok, do you think they possibly might have expanded the team so much because there is going to be some sort of giant team battle between TA and the remaining villains from Oliver's past? Is that too much a LOT thing? (I don't really watch the other shows) 

[Midnight Lullaby]

Prometheus knows about Oliver's kid so it would make sense for Oliver to try to find him to make sure he is safe..if Prometheus is behind or connected to Helix he could know where he is already. And even if it makes sense it doesn't mean I have the slightest interest in knowing what's up with Oliver's kid. I find him more pointless than all the rest of the characters, newbies and LL included.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

MG said earlier that they weren't having Felicity kill someone. She could however hack something that exposes William and Samantha to Prometheus.

Prometheus already knows who William is. But I would absolutely hate if they make it Felicity's fault that he discovers where he is. Please no.

[statsgirl]

I have no idea why they lake Bam Bam so much.  I hope making him a producer is more in name than actual influence.

It really does look like William will be back in person. Is it too much to for Samantha to stay away?

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

What's also funny is that SA repeatedly said last summer that Oliver's most important relationship is with Star City. Yet, this season, the city hasn't even been an issue with regards to Prometheus or ever threatened by him. And It's looking like Oliver is going to be saved by his personal relationships. Plus, the climactic finale won't involve the city at all.

I'm thinking now that it was to avoid questions about Olicity because they were going to keep them apart for ages.

I'm surprised that SA talked about the "there's a coldness between [Oliver and Felicity]" but it's making me think that the weirdness was on purpose rather than bad writing.  In that case, it was bad planning because it really turned off the Olicity fanbase and the anti-Olicity people apparently didn't care enough to keep watching anyway.

[leopardprint]

Maybe Felicity has always known where William and Samantha are located (but BM told her she couldn't tell Oliver ?) 

Ugh, then why hammer "they're friends, they're partners!"? I wonder if then it really wasn't the intention to get them back together.

Edited March 25, 2017 by leopardprint

[tangerine95]

I think they pushed the they're such great friends and have zero drama thing at the start of the season because they weren't planning on dealing with it or explaining it until pretty much the end of the season. They seem to only talk about what's going on on the show right now but not much further. 

[Trisha]

36 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I'm surprised that SA talked about the "there's a coldness between [Oliver and Felicity]" but it's making me think that the weirdness was on purpose rather than bad writing.  In that case, it was bad planning because it really turned off the Olicity fanbase and the anti-Olicity people apparently didn't care enough to keep watching anyway.

Yeah, I was surprised he described their interaction this season as "robotic".  I mean, he's not wrong but the talking points before the season was all about how they are in a good place with their teamwork and professional partnership. Even if they were just straight out lying then, it still makes zero narrative sense to wait 20 episodes before explaining it. 

31 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

Maybe Felicity has always known where William and Samantha are located (but BM told her she couldn't tell Oliver ?) 

I read a jokey spec on Twitter about Felicity finding Oliver's son and surprising him with a reunion for his birthday, and now that's all I want. 

Edited March 25, 2017 by Trisha

[Midnight Lullaby]

10 minutes ago, Trisha said:

 

I read a jokey spec on Twitter about Felicity finding Oliver's son and surprising him with a reunion for his birthday, and now that's all I want. 

Wouldn't it be kinda crazy to do with Prometheus out there?

Now that I think about it I could see Chase kidnapping the kid for Oliver's birthday, LOL.

Edited March 25, 2017 by Midnight Lullaby

[way2interested]

I'm guessing the kid plays into 521? Maybe Chase tries to set up ruining Oliver's potential relationship with his kid and then you've got the whole kid learns who his dad is/learns Oliver is the GA all wrapped up and done to be addressed another day to get down to whatever goes down 522/523, since I wouldn't think they'd have potentially a bunch of villains come back and bringing the kid back and wrap up the season and set up s6 all in 1-2 episodes.

[Velocity23]

[leopardprint]

40 minutes ago, tangerine95 said:

think they pushed the they're such great friends and have zero drama thing at the start of the season because they weren't planning on dealing with it or explaining it until pretty much the end of the season. They seem to only talk about what's going on on the show right now but not much further. 

I think you're right but the eternal question is why present it that way. They could have said they obviously aren't as close as they were but committed to the city. They treated the engagement like he bailed on some dinner plans or something. I kind of wish the spoiler people gave more BTS information because it's so bizarre. 

I'm wondering if 5x23 is actually a wrap up episode ala a series finale in that Oliver makes some movements towards what he wants in his life, getting back with Felicity, starting a relationship with his son, being a terrible mayor, etc. And the title will be like some sort of reference to leaving the island?

[calliope1975]

With SA's con comments, do we think OQ's being outed/outing himself this year? I thought it would happen a few episodes ago, but now I'm speccing on 523. One of the last scenes of the episode. 

[shadow2008]

Regarding the LOA member that Oliver is going to fight alongside with: I know it's probably going to be Malcolm because that stupid character just won't go away, but I would love for it to be Nyssa. Please let it be Nyssa!

Edited March 25, 2017 by shadow2008

[LeighAn]

Marc gave an interview last season that strongly hinted they were told to stall or slow down Olicity by the network- and then didn't he confirm as much to JBuffy during one their SDCC talk?- so I do think the emotional distance between Olicity was intentional and was only temporary until they felt they had stalled them long enough. The Gossip Girl producers were told by the network to keep Chuck and Blair apart for as long as possible as well. Moonlight curse is real y'all.

I think- and I can't take full credit for this opinion as I've read it elsewhere as well-  they wanted to create a shock and surprise element between Olicity too. Like in season 2 when the question was does Oliver love Felicity? Is Olicity a serious romance contender? And then they had the Gasp moment of Oliver declaring his love and the audiencing wondering if he meant it. Where as this season they started Olicity off as a question- are they getting back together, is there hope? Then they show them as physically distant while at the same time partly emotionally distant so the audience questions whether they'll ever get back together before GASP! they slept together months ago and GASP! (some yet to be determined reason) kept them apart and GASP! now they are getting back together because they still loved each other this whole time underneath the surface yada yada

And given some of the discussion even in this forum I guess they've been effective in that way as there are people who seem convinced Okicity is over and probably will be shocked when they reunite.

[Morrigan2575]

Admittedly petty but I'm having a good laugh that As a confirmed EBR can do the Salmon Ladder and that Felicity will attempt it (and no doubt fail). Yet, KC and LL never got to do it no matter how much her stans begged for it. Of course it was pretty obvious KC lied about being able to do it ???

[LeighAn]

Hang on Felicity is actually going to do the salmon ladder? How is this not all we are talking about! Awesome! I feel like all our perseverance through the OliCities and the Tiny Hands and Susans and NuCanaries is finally paying off.

Olicity sex, a full episode of Olicity scenes, strong hints of a reunion, Felicity in a mask and now salmon ladder.

[theOAfc]

3 hours ago, tv echo said:

What's also funny is that SA repeatedly said last summer that Oliver's most important relationship is with Star City. Yet, this season, the city hasn't even been an issue with regards to Prometheus or ever threatened by him. And It's looking like Oliver is going to be saved by his personal relationships. Plus, the climactic finale won't involve the city at all.

Stephen has his own headcanons lol. He probably just wanted to say that oliver being a hero is more important than olivers romantic relationship. Maybe he was channeling his own opinion or what he would like the show do highlight. 

 

1 hour ago, Angel12d said:

Also, SA's now mentioning how he bets William will find out GA is his dad sooner than later. Now I'm even more convinced by that interview he did where he mentioned wanting Slade, Black Siren and William/Samantha to return. I think they're all coming back now in some way and he was just kind of hinting at it in that wink nudge way of his.

I agree,also i think Oliver is gonna be outed as GA. 

[Chaser]

4 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Admittedly petty but I'm having a good laugh that As a confirmed EBR can do the Salmon Ladder and that Felicity will attempt it (and no doubt fail). Yet, KC and LL never got to do it no matter how much her stans begged for it. Of course it was pretty obvious KC lied about being able to do it ???

I'm hoping they post a video of EBR actually doing it after the episode airs.

They can't tease us like that, they just can't. lol

[Trisha]

19 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

I'm wondering if 5x23 is actually a wrap up episode ala a series finale in that Oliver makes some movements towards what he wants in his life, getting back with Felicity, starting a relationship with his son, being a terrible mayor, etc. And the title will be like some sort of reference to leaving the island?

I think this too but I'm assuming William comes back before that. Chase warned Oliver that he would start looking for him so I hope to God Oliver makes moves to find and protect him immediately. Even if we don't see the kid until 523, I want them to mention that he's been found and moved somewhere safer. 

[theOAfc]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

I'm surprised that SA talked about the "there's a coldness between [Oliver and Felicity]"

I personally think they didnt plan on actually dealing with  what happened during hiatus or to explain why olicity was reset that way ,which is why they kept saying olicity are great friends and partners and they are trusting each other back in sdcc. I think they thought  redoing a similar to s2 dynamic with them this season would excite people(they did imply they would write them more like early seasons when people loved them so much) but they forgot that doing that after what happened in s4 and s3 would seem weird and unnatural. They basically kinda ignored their romantic history for the most part or did their best to downplay it hoping viewers wont notice. Maybe that was because they wanted so much to prove this season they were writing away from the romance,trying to lure back certain fans. A large part of their hiatus PR was anti romantic olicity,with them shutting down most olicity related questions or being snarky to olicity fans.  

I think seeing the feedback and realizing how it came off on screen, they probably decided to "explain" why they were so "cold" to each other. 

I feel that they think ignoring stuff for many episodes and bringing them up in a filler episode is  them presenting a mature dynamic. But they fail to present a build up or to write a development so it comes off OOC or kinda forced. Its as like they go from 0 to 100 and then back to 0 and they dont bother to show what happens in between.

Edited March 25, 2017 by theOAfc

[Mrs. de Winter]

Someone posted a follow-up tweet to SA statement about wanting to have Oliver outed as GA saying that he also said he didn't know how the show would/could continue if they did so.  I am hoping that is true and that they will not go there.

12 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

Hang on Felicity is actually going to do the salmon ladder? How is this not all we are talking about! Awesome! I feel like all our perseverance through the OliCities and the Tiny Hands and Susans and NuCanaries is finally paying off.

Felicity will try and do the salmon ladder.  SA said Felicity cannot do it (so I guess she tries and is not successful) but EBR can.  Not sure how far they will let Felicity get (particularly if they had Curtis fail at it earlier this season). 

[statsgirl]

27 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

Where as this season they started Olicity off as a question- are they getting back together, is there hope? Then they show them as physically distant while at the same time partly emotionally distant so the audience questions whether they'll ever get back together before GASP! they slept together months ago and GASP! (some yet to be determined reason) kept them apart and GASP! now they are getting back together because they still loved each other this whole time underneath the surface yada yada

That made sense in s2 because Olicity wasn't a canon ship yet, it was just a (large) group of people hoping they would get together at some point.  Oliver had slept with Isabel and was just off a relationship with Sara during which he put Felicity in a box on the shelf.  So when they had the moment in 2x23, it really was a shock and we spent the summer wondering if it's true.

In season 5, after all they've been through, including an engagement, a paralysis and and fake wedding, it makes  little sense to have people spending a season wondering if they are going to get back together.  The distance between them, rather than getting people to tune in to see what happens, has caused people to stop watching.

And once again, just like with the BMD, they've skewered themselves by their own tent poles.  When people started getting upset in 5x05 rather than excited to see whether they can work it out, that was the time to start teasing Olicity again not wait until 5x20 because that was the plan to do it then and they never talk about things until just before they happen.  MG should have been out there saying "It's a rough time right now but have faith that Oliver and Felicity will work it out."

36 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

With SA's con comments, do we think OQ's being outed/outing himself this year? I thought it would happen a few episodes ago, but now I'm speccing on 523. One of the last scenes of the episode. 

I really REALLY hate the idea of Oliver outing himself as the Green Arrow because it limits the potential storylines so much.  Did SA speak of it in reply to a question or did he come up with it spontaneously?  If he said it in response to a question, there's a chance they won't do it.  If he came out with it on his own, yeah, probably going to happen and he's setting it up.

Edited March 25, 2017 by statsgirl

[Morrigan2575]

1 minute ago, Mrs. de Winter said:

Felicity will try and do the salmon ladder.  SA said Felicity cannot do it (so I guess she tries and is not successful) but EBR can.  Not sure how far they will let Felicity get (particularly if they had Curtis fail at it earlier this season). 

Tries and falls or tries and Oliver catches her but yeah she's not going to do it on screen. I would love it if they released the video afterwards.

[calliope1975]

4 minutes ago, Mrs. de Winter said:

Felicity will try and do the salmon ladder.  SA said Felicity cannot do it (so I guess she tries and is not successful) but EBR can.  Not sure how far they will let Felicity get (particularly if they had Curtis fail at it earlier this season). 

I'm guessing this happens in the flashback with the vodka and the sex, right? I can't see any time for wacky Sally hijinks in the present with everything that's going on. Mind you, I'll take it either way, and add me to the list of those who need that video released after. 

[Mrs. de Winter]

8 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Tries and falls or tries and Oliver catches her but yeah she's not going to do it on screen. I would love it if they released the video afterwards.

From what I have seen people will be lighting candles in the hope it is falls and he catches her :)

I agree 1000% they should release it.  Perhaps one of Marc's DM buddies will ask and he will share it?  Or the gym where she works out?  I am guessing she would have to have practiced a bit...

[way2interested]

I wonder if that's just in 520 since Oliver and Felicity seemed trapped in the bunker anyways. Like, a one-off visual gag to just pass the time while they're stuck there but before they talk about anything.

[Velocity23]

[bijoux]

2 minutes ago, Mrs. de Winter said:

From what I have seen people will be lighting candles in the hope it is falls and he catches her :)

I agree 1000% they should release it.  Perhaps one of Marc's DM buddies will ask and he will share it?  Or the gym where she works out?  I am guessing she would have to have practiced a bit...

I want a video from the bunker. That's Sally right there. Anywhere else it's just a regular Salmon ladder.

[theOAfc]

I expect a flashforward in the season finale's last minutes. 

[way2interested]

Just now, Velocity23 said:

For @wonderwall,

Final scene in 522 is Felicity gets kidnapped and they have the final battle on Lian Yu???

Also regarding this:

My gut immediate reaction for some reason was seeing a glimpes of Yao Fei hallucination style in the flashbacks, but who else hasn't been seen since s1?

[Morrigan2575]

17 minutes ago, way2interested said:

My gut immediate reaction for some reason was seeing a glimpes of Yao Fei hallucination style in the flashbacks, but who else hasn't been seen since s1?

Fryers?  Billy Wintergreen? But yeah, Yao Fei makes the most sense.

Edited March 25, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[leopardprint]

7 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Fryers?  Billy Wintergreen? But yeah, Yao Fro makes the most sense.

Lian Yu does seem to have mystical powers of hair growth. :)

The housekeeper? Did Yao Fei drop some wisdom on Ollie about living not surviving or something that could fit in?

Edited March 25, 2017 by leopardprint

[catrox14]

Carter Bowen? Max?

[bijoux]

23 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

 

Honestly expecting Chase to be waiting for Oliver with a hostage and a birthday cake on Lian Yu.

Just now, catrox14 said:

Carter Bowen? Max?

ProtoFelicity from the pilot?

[HighHopes]

1 minute ago, Morrigan2575 said:

The person later said that they were kidding: 

[bijoux]

1 minute ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Is this going to be a massive reunion with all the characters from all five seasons? Because, I could see Tatsu coming back at some point for a guest spot, but I'd expect to see Raisa as the housekeeper in the Queen/Smoak household before seeing Akio and Maseo again.

[Morrigan2575]

Yeah, that's why I edited

[bijoux]

Just now, HighHopes said:

The person later said that they were kidding: 

That makes sense.

[Velocity23]

[statsgirl]

I gotta love David Ramsey -- the others couch things in foggy, foggy language, and he comes out as a truespeaker.

[bijoux]

I hope tis is a spoiler, because a momentary firing does not an ass kicking make.

[lemotomato]

Just catching up on all the spoilers. Since SA mentioned William again, I'm reminded that he also hinted all the way back in August at HVFF San Jose that the William storyline was not over. I guess it's finally happening.

[finnaire]

Maybe he introduces Felicity to the kid.

I'm perplexed about how Felicity could take down Prometheus using Helix in a way that Oliver would not like. All I can think is that she could land him in prison and I don't see how that would be a bad thing. She could get him fired like Susan but he'd still be a danger lurking out there and we already know she's not going to kill him. What else can she do? And how could it be so bad that jeopardizes her "light".  I could understand if collateral damage was involved but, who's close enough to Chase that would get taken down with him?

And now that the I've said that, maybe Chase is behind Helix and to take him down she has to destroy Helix. I can see Oliver not wanting to do that.

Edited March 25, 2017 by finnaire

[tv echo]

I don't think that Oliver will be outed as the GA any time soon...

-- On what one or two things that he'd like to see happen on the show, SA: "I think it would be amazing if one day Oliver was just outed as - as the Green Arrow. I think that would be really cool. I don't know if we could sustain the show if we did it, so I don't know if it would happen - uh, I don't know if it would happen until, you know, we knew what the end date of the show was, but I think that that would be very, very cool. And also, secondarily, I would like Oliver to - one of the defined traits of the Green Arrow, uh, in the comics, um, is that he has a pretty established political stance. And I think that, although those waters are murky at the moment, I think it would be really fun if the show took a position, one way or the other. I mean, we did an episode this season on gun violence or gun control, however you want to say it, and... did our best to split it down the middle, and have people on both sides of the debate. Um, some people liked it, some people didn't, which is fine. But, uh, I would like our show to take a position. I feel like we've earned the right to do it. And I mean, what's the worst we could do? Alienate some viewers? It's fine. What are you going to do? I'd rather take a strong position than sort of be lukewarm." (HVFF-Chicago, Mar. 25, 2017: prince mojo video of SA panel, page 56 of Spoilers thread)

Edited March 25, 2017 by tv echo

[Morrigan2575]

2 minutes ago, finnaire said:

I'm perplexed about how Felicity could take down Prometheus using Helix in a way that Oliver would not like. All I can think is that she could land him in prison and I don't see how that would be a bad thing. She could get him fired like Susan but he'd still be a danger lurking out there and we already know she's not going to kill him. What else can she do?

Use drones? She could release a bunch of criminals he put away and, set them on Chase? Although, really Oliver made a deal with the Mob so that doesn't seem fair.

[thegirlsleuth]

Explaining the Oliver/Felicity dynamics of the season to date in the 20th episode is just terrible storytelling. I don't know if they never planned to have the discussion and this is a correction or if they really thought waiting this long was a good idea. I do think they thought people would just be cool with no conversation on screen since the noromo crowd screamed romantic conversation=melodrama.  However, sometimes romantic conversations aren't melodramatic, sometimes they are drama needed for character development and to help the viewers understand their actions. The EPs claimed that the dynamic was one of two people who were engaged and then had to work together, but I never saw that on screen.  All I saw was the writers ignoring history.

Based on their comments in social media and media--not only Wendy, but Stephen, fan art Friday pics, etc--I think they were at least considering exploring the Green Arrow/Black Canary arc up until December. There was a dramatic shift in their messaging in late December, and we started to see the shift of onscreen dynamics of those episodes shot after that point.  

If Oliver and Felicity had been in real relationships with fully formed characters, I could understand why they'd wait until season 6 to reunite. The outside relationships had no weight, and I don't particularly feeling waiting is necessary.