Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Midnight Lullaby]

I could have seen from Diggle and Curtis a scene telling her "you know I care about you and you can always come to me if you need it right?" at some point this season after all the things she has been through..because of Havenrock, or Billy being killed or BS impersonating LL and now Helix but I think the whole point is to isolate her and justify making her join Helix. If the others showed to be there for her it would have been hard to justify her going to join Helix imo. It's another example of plot >>> characters. And the characters I'm talking about in this example are Dig and Curtis.

Edited March 4, 2017 by Midnight Lullaby

[theOAfc]

7 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

I'm just gonna leave this here...

Felicity was repeatedly shown to ignore her moms texts and phone calls and it was adressed that the reason was because of how different they were. Her not opening up to her mom(as Donna mentions) was the show doing the cliche of the parent feeling helpless because the child wont hang out with them or let them into their life. The typical trope of parents being afraid that they will lose their children once they grow up. I dont think this scene implies anything about Felicity generally not opening up to people close to her,especially with how she causally opened up to oliver while they were together in season 4. 

Edited March 4, 2017 by theOAfc

[Midnight Lullaby]

I do think Felicity is the type of person not to go and share her issues but the question here is are the others the type of people to not ask a friend if she is okay after being through very traumatic events?

[ComicFan777]

I think the problem is Oliver and Diggle expressed concern and gave advice in more or less of a lecture-mode without actually asking her if she was ok.  They talked.  She listened.  They walked off.  That's it.  How does someone who has difficulty in sharing their feelings talk if no one seems to want to prompt her to talk or really hear what she has going on in her head?

Edited March 4, 2017 by ComicFan777

[wonderwall]

IMO the only people who I don't understand trying harder to reach out to Felicity are Diggle/Curtis... I get why everyone else doesn't do it. 

Oliver - I don't think Oliver feels like he has the right to push Felicity into telling him what's wrong. And to a certain extent he's right. I mean I wish I saw a little bit more concern from him by asking if she's okay once in a while, but for now I think what he told her and Diggle in 312 suffices for me. But ymmv. 

Rene/Dinah - I get why they aren't concerned about Felicity. They barely know her which is another which is symptomatic of a larger problem - which is that the new team just doesn't work well at all. And that's because I don't see any sort of camaraderie or friendships between these characters and the core ones. 

Diggle - I think that Diggle should've shown more concern in the last few episodes instead of helping Dinah pick out a new apartment. He is so divorced from his relationship with Felicity that just a couple of scenes don't really cut it for me. If he cares, he'll continue to try to help her in any way that he can. 

Curtis - He has known Felicity for a while yet has barely shown any concern about how she's been changing the past few episodes. You'd think that with their history he'd try harder to help her? But nope. 

All in all though - the issue here is that Felicity isn't opening up to anyone. She refuses to let anyone help her, refuses to hear Diggle/Oliver out. Refused to even hear Rory out. I think Felicity is already on that slippery slope where she won't listen to anyone until something happens and she sees the damage she's been causing. I don't even think Felicity knows that she's heading down the wrong path. And the fact that she likely doesn't, shows that no one can help her right now. 

But that's just my opinon

Edited March 4, 2017 by wonderwall

[dtissagirl]

I don't really give a damn WHO reaches out to her, I just find it terribadly awful writing that they set up her willing to die in one episode, and then there's nothing at all about it in the following two episodes. That's my point. It's the world's most chillax and aloof downward spiral.

Edited March 4, 2017 by dtissagirl

[Midnight Lullaby]

The thing with Oliver is he doesn't feel comfortable enough to ask her if something is bothering her but he feels comfortable enough to ask her to fix his relationship with Susan, even if Felicity told him she didn't want to get involved and was visibly uncomfortable.

It's sort of a mess. 

[wonderwall]

9 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

I don't really give a damn WHO reaches out to her, I just find it terribadly awful writing that they set up her willing to die in one episode, and then there's nothing at all about it in the following two episodes. That's my point. It's the world's most chillax and aloof downward soiral.

Did Rory ever tell anyone else that Felicity was willing to die and told Rory that she should've gone into the hangar instead? Because from everyone else's PoV it could've been that Felicity/Rory had a plan to deactivate the bomb with his magical rags or whatever... I don't really remember properly.

Because the whole bomb thing is oddly reminiscent of Felicity staying in the foundry during the Undertaking so she can keep helping and no one knew whether the foundry would collapse or not - so it was rather a risky move in order to help save the city...

Edited March 4, 2017 by wonderwall

[theOAfc]

There are weird stuff they do in this show with characters and aftermath of big twists.

Felicity nuking a city and cracking jokes the following episode. Then suddenly remembering she nuked a city once the only survivor of the nuked city appears, and feeling guilty . 

Oliver not blaming himself for Laurels death in season 4 and trying to show to Dig ,who blamed her death on him,that losing themselves by violently killing out of revenge wasnt the way,only for oliver to start killing random thieves in the s5 premiere out of guilt over Laurels death. 

So many wtf plot driven character shifts. Awful. 

[lemotomato]

8 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

I don't really give a damn WHO reaches out to her, I just find it terribadly awful writing that they set up her willing to die in one episode, and then there's nothing at all about it in the following two episodes. That's my point. It's the world's most chillax and aloof downward spiral.

Only Rory knew what she intended and he didn't have time to tell anyone because he left at the end of the episode to figure out his own stuff.

[dtissagirl]

2 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

Basically. 

Did Rory ever tell anyone else that Felicity was willing to die and told Rory that she should've gone into the hangar? Because from everyone else's PoV it could've been that Felicity/Rory had a plan to deactivate the bomb with his magical rags or whatever... I don't really remember properly

Nope, he didn't tell anyone. And I don't think they talked about it either when he was saying goodbye. It was a beat for one scene only. What a waste.

[wonderwall]

12 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

The thing with Oliver is he doesn't feel comfortable enough to ask her if something is bothering her but he feels comfortable enough to ask her to fix his relationship with Susan, even if Felicity told him she didn't want to get involved and was visibly uncomfortable.

I kind of feel those are two completely different things though. One of them is asking Felicity to use her skills in order to help him. The other is Oliver actively trying to get Felicity to open up to him. And earlier in the season, even Felicity said that her and Oliver don't have that kind of relationship anymore and I think Oliver knows that too.

I'm not saying him asking Felicity to help was right. God no. He was an asshole and I hated him in the last episode. But yeah, they're two completely different things. One of them is a lot more intimate than the other and Oliver knows it's not his place to push her in that sense.

1 minute ago, dtissagirl said:

Nope, he didn't tell anyone. And I don't think they talked about it either when he was saying goodbye. It was a beat for one scene only. What a waste.

He really should've told someone... It would've worked really well if he told Diggle and Diggle proceeded to keep an eye on her more closely afterwards but NOPE! It's more important for Dinah to get an apartment :) God, Dinah is such a waste of space.

Edited March 4, 2017 by wonderwall

[dtissagirl]

6 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

Only Rory knew what she intended and he didn't have time to tell anyone because he left at the end of the episode to figure out his own stuff.

I get that, but it's again part of the structural problem -- they wrote a legit grand beat for Felicity's dark storyline, but they cointained it by having only Rory know about it when they obviously knew he was being put on a bus at the end of the episode. It's a beat that goes nowhere on purpose, because this isn't a character driven story for Felicity. It's just plot beats she needs to hit at predetermined times.

Edited March 4, 2017 by dtissagirl

[statsgirl]

And it's a plot beat for someone else's story, mostly likely Oliver's, rather than for Felicity's story.  It will all come together when it most affects Oliver.  The problem is, you can't sustain a show with writing for only one character like that because it becomes just wash, rinse, repeat.

4 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

The thing with Oliver is he doesn't feel comfortable enough to ask her if something is bothering her but he feels comfortable enough to ask her to fix his relationship with Susan, even if Felicity told him she didn't want to get involved and was visibly uncomfortable.

BAM!  And wow, does that make Oliver the worst jerk.

Donna's pistachio line was such lazy writing. They didn't want to spend the time talking about Felicity's feelings so they lampshaded it.  If I were writing this in psych report, I'd say Abandonment issues as a child + her mother not understanding her feelings = someone who is reluctant to open up about her feelings because it's not safe to.  Add to that Cooper and the way Oliver had treated her for every year except season 4A and it's been reinforced.

 

53 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

Thats always been an issue on the show. My point was mainly on how Felicitys characterisation kind of contradicts what others want in terms of emotional support. In that she's not good at wanting emotional support from others around her pain *shrug*

Neither are Oliver or Diggle.

Remember season 2 when Oliver thought that he had to sacrifice himself to stop Slade and he asked Diggle and Felicity for  help?  Oh, wait, that didn't happen.   He hid himself away in the secondary lair.  But Diggle and Felicity found him through ARGUS and they went to him to help. And he still refused it and went to meet Slade so they tranq'd and kidnapped him to save him.  The times Oliver has asked for help can be counted on the fingers of a severly mutilated hand (as my old Poli Sci prof used to say) but that never stopped Felicity or Diggle. Remember when Diggle quit in s1 and Oliver refused to apologize even though he needed his help so Felicity went to Diggle on her own?  Remember when Felicity tried to save Oliver from the LoA by drugging him?

My point is that if you care about someone, you don't help them only when they're asking you for help, you help them when they need it.

45 minutes ago, theOAfc said:

Yeah i mean this isnt about what Felicity wants that's the issue. This is about how certain people around her should show more concern/care. I dont think we are supposed to assume that they know her the best and respect her wish to shut down and be all alone untill she feels better. Not only the show didnt bother to imply that at all,but thats not really how people act when it comes to loved ones. Normally people try to be there and have their loved ones open up,or to at least let them know they are there for them and make sure they are not struggling all alone. I mean Felicity is always trying to have oliver open up and share his struggles with her even though he also tends to not talk about it unless asked. 

And its not like Felicity specifically told them to allow her some me time to figure things out alone. That would require for her to actually let them know she is struggling. They never asked more than once anyway. Which is the whole point. And if we are to assume she was asked off screen again and again and refused help,then the show clearly fails to highlight her need to be alone.  [snip]

Its also that most of the times when someone doesnt want people close to them to help them,its because they dont want to bother them with their issues. Those people close to them,should know better and still insist on being there for them when they are silently struggling. Human nature and all...

That's why this is making Oliver and even Diggle look bad.  If you asked Felicity, she'd probably say that she doesn't want to bother Oliver with her problems when he's going through so much, or Diggle when he just got back to Lyla and Sara JJ.  But he still has time to talk to Dinah about her apartment.

44 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

I wonder if the adult conversation between Oliver & Felicity will be one side (Oliver POV) and commercial/next scene.  The Thea/Oliver scene regarding Susan in 5.14 was really Oliver talking/lecturing and then sitting down like a convo was going to take place.  Thea got a POV to say why she was leaving in 5.15.  Oliver (SA's expression) looked like he failed his sister. 

How dark is the arc going to be when she's joining them basically to help people, especially when the team saving Oliver from Vigilante is what appears to have made up her mind?

Exactly.  None of this makes sense.

I don't expect anything from the "adult conversation: other than Oliver telling her that she has failed him, just as he told Thea.  If it's in 519 or later and the EPs have realized they need to get their heads out of their asses because the audience is leaving in droves, it may be more.

[Midnight Lullaby]

8 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

I kind of feel those are two completely different things though. One of them is asking Felicity to use her skills in order to help him. The other is Oliver actively trying to get Felicity to open up to him. And earlier in the season, even Felicity said that her and Oliver don't have that kind of relationship anymore and I think Oliver knows that too.

I'm not saying him asking Felicity to help was right. God no. He was an asshole and I hated him in the last episode. But yeah, they're two completely different things. One of them is a lot more intimate than the other and Oliver knows it's not his place to push her in that sense.

To me it boils down to Oliver feeling in a particular way about Felicity and the things that have to do with their personal lives. He didn't ask her a work related task, he asked her to fix things with his girlfriend. Either he feels he can't come to Felicity with things that are too personal because they used to have a certain type of relationship and now they don't or he doesn't.

I agree that asking her if she is okay is more intimate but if you care about someone and you are worried you should be able to push past your discomfort to help that person. And we know he is going to. Just not now because the timing isn't right for the plot imo. But I don't see reasons, thinking solely about the character, for him to not talk her now. If the problem is that they don't have that type of relationship anymore that's not going to change before they talk.

[insomniadreams88]

All I know is that with the amount of time spent on Susan's job she should have been fired from anyway, I want to see an entire episode dedicated to Felicity and everything she's been/going through. 

[wonderwall]

Just now, Midnight Lullaby said:

I agree that asking her if she is okay is more intimate but if you care about someone and you are worried you should be able to push past your discomfort to help that person

This isn't about Oliver's discomfort, per se. This is about where their relationship is as a whole and how in they are not at the point in their relationship that Felicity just opens up to him and Oliver knows that. Even if Oliver pushed, I don't think Oliver believes she'd open up to him. Even when they were together she had a tough time opening up to him about her father as well as everything that happened in 411.

4 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

If the problem is that they don't have that type of relationship anymore that's not going to change before they talk.

The ball is in Felicity's court right now. I can see that Oliver doesn't feel like they have that kind of relationship anymore especially after Billy. I can also see that if Felicity let him, he'd try to do whatever he can to help her. It's just that Felicity has built up an impenetrable wall between her and Oliver right now. 

6 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

To me it boils down to Oliver feeling in a particular way about Felicity and the things that have to do with their personal lives. He didn't ask her a work related task, he asked her to fix things with his girlfriend.

I'm not going to defend him for what he did last episode. I honestly thought it was gross. But all I'm just saying I can see why he's not pushing Felicity considering the wall she's built between them. Because yes, I think the key here for me, is that him pushing her to open up is a lot more intimate and IDK if I'd feel comfortable with that. 

3 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

All I know is that with the amount of time spent on Susan's job she should have been fired from anyway, I want to see an entire episode dedicated to Felicity and everything she's been/going through. 

I really effin' hope 516 delivers -_-

[tangerine95]

I really think the only reason why Digg and Oliver haven't tried harder to talk to Felicity is just that it's too soon for their plot and they're saving it for later. So we get them noticing something's wrong and giving a few weird looks and giving her some half-assed pep talks that she ignores because it's not time yet for her to actually talk to them. It's their dumb plot driven writing again. 

But the annoying thing to me is that they do have some understandable ways of dragging it out but they're not bothering to be much clearer about it so the audience can guess stuff from like Oliver doesn't care to he doesn't think she wants to talk to him. We really shouldn't be wondering about this stuff and it should be made clear onscreen but I think they're so removed from the emotional aspect of every storylines and just focusing on setting up future plots that they don't even get that's important. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

2 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

This isn't about Oliver's discomfort, per se. This is about where their relationship is as a whole and how in they are not at the point in their relationship that Felicity just opens up to him and Oliver knows that. Even if Oliver pushed, I don't think Oliver believes she'd open up to him. Even when they were together she had a tough time opening up to him about her father as well as everything that happened in 411.

The ball is in Felicity's court right now. I can see that Oliver doesn't feel like they have that kind of relationship anymore especially after Billy. I can also see that if Felicity let him, he'd try to do whatever he can to help her. It's just that Felicity has built up an impenetrable wall between her and Oliver right now. 

I'm not going to defend him for what he did last episode. I honestly thought it was gross. But all I'm just saying I can see why he's not pushing Felicity considering the wall she's built between them. Because yes, I think the key here for me, is that him pushing her to open up is a lot more intimate and IDK if I'd feel comfortable with that. 

I really effin' hope 516 delivers -_-

I understand your reasoning I just really, really think it's because of plot and all you said never even occurred to the people that are writing Oliver.

[Mellowyellow]

Is 516 meant to have more Felicity or is it about that stank face toad getting kidnapped and we're supposed to care about her?

Honestly is I'd rather watch Dinah at this point. My fear was that they'd try to sell Dinah to us but that was logical. Selling the pantry moth does not make sense!

Edited March 4, 2017 by Mellowyellow

[wonderwall]

Just now, Midnight Lullaby said:

I understand your reasoning I just really, really think it's because of plot and all you said never even occurred to the people that are writing Oliver.

LOL oh I get it. I, too, think that most of what's happening IS for plot reasons. As in, it's not time for them to help bring Felicity back into the light... And tbh I really don't care. I'm just excited for Felicity's arc. 

And me just using my reasoning, it helps smooth the jagged edges on the entire thing making it more fun for me to watch...

[Sunshine]

22 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

 And earlier in the season, even Felicity said that her and Oliver don't have that kind of relationship anymore and I think Oliver knows that too.

I think the writers forget.  IIRC, that was about the same time she gives the great "green-lit" speech to Oliver about choosing to stand by him.  So it came off more as a one way street.  She continues to be there for him but she won't open up to him.  Trust issues.  She's not allowing herself to be vulnerable.   She's still giving pep talks even after he made her uncomfortable while the girlfriend is telling him how he deserves everything happening to him in the latest episode.

[wonderwall]

1 minute ago, Sunshine said:

IIRC, that was about the same time she gives the great "green-lit" speech to Oliver about choosing to stand by him.  So it came off more as a one way street.  She continues to be there for him but she won't open up to him.  Trust issues.  She's not allowing herself to be vulnerable.   She's still giving pep talks even after he made her uncomfortable while the girlfriend is telling him how he deserves everything happening to him in the latest episode.

Yeah I think that's exactly it. Felicity doesn't mind lending Oliver her support... But she doesn't want to let anyone else in because she's afraid of getting hurt again, maybe? I can see why she wouldn't mind it being a one way street. 

[Sunshine]

2 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Is 516 meant to have more Felicity or is it about that stank face toad getting kidnapped and we're supposed to care about her?

Honestly is I'd rather watch Dinah at this point. My fear was that they'd try to sell Dinah to us but that was logical. Selling the pantry moth does not make sense!

No way of knowing for sure.  I think the adult convo is happening.  Felicity joins Helix from the promo stills.  Who knows if it amounts to anything screen time wise.

Snoozan's kidnapping will be at least a plot point but she might actually have little screen time.

[lemotomato]

8 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

All I know is that with the amount of time spent on Susan's job she should have been fired from anyway, I want to see an entire episode dedicated to Felicity and everything she's been/going through. 

It wasn't really about her job, though. Susan was barely in the episode. It was about Oliver running around trying to fix something that got ruined because of him that he felt he would be able to fix by asking Thea to apologize and Felicity to un-hack. I think it was more about Oliver being in the middle of several crises that he has varying degrees of control over.

[insomniadreams88]

Honestly part of me wonders if they thought that having Oliver go to Felicity for help with Susan would be fine because they could say, "see, Felicity was jealous, and it's part of the rebuilding," not thinking beyond that or how horrible Oliver looked. They even chose it as a dialogue tease. It's horrible writing. It's not thinking on the writers' parts. It could be as simple as that. (And yes, that's awful.)

[statsgirl]

My guess is that 516 is about Susan getting kidnapped, Oliver desperate to find her, and Felicity willing to make whatever dark bargain with Helix to get Oliver back the girl he loves. And then I throw up.

If this is where the adult conversation is (and I hope it's not), then it will be about needing to do what you need to do it rather than anything real about Felicity's feelings.

58 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

The ball is in Felicity's court right now. I can see that Oliver doesn't feel like they have that kind of relationship anymore especially after Billy. I can also see that if Felicity let him, he'd try to do whatever he can to help her. It's just that Felicity has built up an impenetrable wall between her and Oliver right now.

Either they have the kind of relationship where Oliver can ask her to fix things for him with his girlfriend or they don't   If there is an impenetrable wall between them, he should shut up about his relationship with Susan when it's making Felicity so uncomfortable.  At the very least  he should notice that it's making her uncomfortable.

Edited March 5, 2017 by statsgirl

[Mellowyellow]

1 minute ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Honestly part of me wonders if they thought that having Oliver go to Felicity for help with Susan would be fine because they could say, "see, Felicity was jealous, and it's part of the rebuilding," not thinking beyond that or how horrible Oliver looked. They even chose it as a dialogue tease. It's horrible writing. It's not thinking on the writers' parts. It could be as simple as that. (And yes, that's awful.)

I'm too lazy to go back but did anyone think it would be a Felicity and Oliver scene when they released the dialogue tease?

I can just see them going "Ohhh Felicity is jealous the shippers will totes be happy"

Haha there was so much rage on the twitter stuff I was looking at. 

[insomniadreams88]

9 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

My guess is that 516 is about Susan getting kidnapped, Oliver desperate to find her, and Felicity willing to make whatever dark bargain with Helix to get Oliver back the girl he loves. And then I throw up.

Don't mention "love" in relation to that relationship. Just don't. It's one of my worst fears about this season.

Maybe we'll get someone pointing out Oliver can't go out as GA since his big press conference and he'll go, "it's Susan!" like he'd say "it's Felicity!" I wouldn't put anything past the writers this season. 

[LeighAn]

Honestly I was just responding to posts that seemed to suggest that there has been no evidence of any character showing interest and particularly Oliver showing interest in Felicity or treating her like a person at all with examples in show where they have. I get that people have different definitions though of what they see as counting as being there for Felicity. Those were just mine and how I see Felicitys characterisation fitting with where she's at currently and my hope that the upcoming episode will ramp up the emotional aspect or concern for Felicity.

But you realise this same conversation  is happening in four threads now, including the social media thread, and I understand people being entitled to their feelings and that I choose to read and respond to it but I don't hate the show entirely the way some do and negativity and bitterness gets tiring for me sometimes so I choose to rationalise and characterise what I see    as working for the storyline as I see it *shrug* 

[legaleagle53]

23 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

My guess is that 516 is about Susan getting kidnapped, Oliver desperate to find her, and Felicity willing to make whatever dark bargain with Helix to get Oliver back the girl he loves. And then I throw up.

You and Thea (and probably a host of other people).

[SmallScreenDiva]

46 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Honestly part of me wonders if they thought that having Oliver go to Felicity for help with Susan would be fine because they could say, "see, Felicity was jealous, and it's part of the rebuilding," not thinking beyond that or how horrible Oliver looked. They even chose it as a dialogue tease. It's horrible writing. It's not thinking on the writers' parts. It could be as simple as that. (And yes, that's awful.)

Except I don't think she came across as jealous at all. Just uncomfortable as one would be when your ex talks about a girlfriend. 

[finnaire]

Why isn’t anybody showing any concern for Diggle? The guy murdered his brother point blank, was sitting in jail in a delusional state, was broken out against his will and placed into hiding where he couldn’t be with his wife and kid. Got re-arrested and just managed to avoid being murdered/permanently disappeared at the hands of the crooked major. And since they won him his release, he’s being shown having regular, major fits of rage.  And, yet, no one has been asking him if he’s okay. I’m outraged! Outraged, I say!

On the other hand, Felicity was shown to be in a contented relationship with Mayo which, apparently had been going on for several months after her breakup with Oliver. She seemed to be putting Havenrock behind her until Rory showed up. And then they were able to talk through their issues and develop a mutual support system for one another if/when they needed it. When Oliver killed her boyfriend, she showed obvious sadness at his death and equal anger at Prometheus. Since his funeral was shown off stage left, we can only assume she was consoled appropriately by all of her friends because, she appeared to be bouncing back. There was nothing in her involvement with Pandora/Helix to show she’s in any physical/emotional danger. We know she’s headed down a dark path because we are spoiled but so far, the only indications for in show have been 1) her blackmail threat to the Russian which most of us raved about but Rory was disturbed by 2) Rory’s vague concerns which were never shared 3) Her reaction to Diggle’s torture, which Oliver saw and expressed concern over. And yet, we still know that Oliver does think there’s something going on with her, he doesn’t know what it is and he isn't in a position to have that conversation with her.

I really hope Chase isn’t behind  Helix. He only recently found out through Evelyn that Felicity was part of the team. If, in addition to getting Ninja warrior skills, setting himself up as a DA and BFF with the mayor, we find out he also learns all about the secrets of the dark web and uses it to his benefit, he will be the kind of all powerful big bad that I most hate. I’m hoping Helix turns out to be something Felicity ultimately manages to wrestle control over. And changes its name to Felix, just because.

Edited March 5, 2017 by finnaire

[BkWurm1]

Quote

For anyone trying to figure out who Vigilante is, Pike was not at the press conference when Vigilante was going to take him out. I read somewhere that he was which ruled him out so I looked closely.

This is good news!  Yeah, in the live thread I think it was said he was at the Press conference and therefore couldn't be Vigilante.  I've been meaning to check it out but thanks for taking one for the team.  I think 5-10 was the only episode (apart from the Hug scene in Bratva) that I've rewatched this year.  

 

37 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

I understand your reasoning I just really, really think it's because of plot and all you said never even occurred to the people that are writing Oliver.

More than half the things we suss out is probably stuff that never occurred to the writers but that doesn't stop me from trying to find something that makes sense in the madness.  :D

27 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

 

Either they have the kind of relationship where Oliver can ask her to fix things for him with his girlfriend or they don't   If there is an impenetrable wall between them, he should STFU about his relationship with Susan when it's making Felicity so uncomfortable.  At the very least  he should notice that it's making her uncomfortable.

In this particular instance, I don't think Oliver was worried about making her uncomfortable (hence being an ass in the episode) since there was no one else but Felicity that actually could fix the underlying issue, ruining Susan's work life, that would then prompt Susan to take his calls.  There were plenty of easier ways of framing his request without dragging in the issue of making his ex fix his current relationship...which is why I am sure it was framed that way on purpose.  Not entirely sure why but for some reason they deliberately reminded the viewers of their relationship.  

15 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Don't mention "love" in relation to that relationship. Just don't. It's one of my worst fears about this season.

Maybe we'll get someone pointing out Oliver can't go out as GA since his big press conference and he'll go, "it's Susan!" like he'd say "it's Felicity!" I wouldn't put anything past the writers this season. 

I don't think if he does or says something extreme or expresses special concern it means that much.  Someone pointed out that Susan wasn't written or portrayed with much more care or richness than a glorified extra.  Whatever feelings we see Oliver agonizing over in connection to Susan aren't really about Susan.  She's the symbol, the goal, the answer to prove Prometheus wrong.  She matters because of where he is in his life and all the accusations and failures that have come before, not because she's so special.  If she was supposed to have been special, the show would have hammered us over the head with her snowflake status. 

[Trisha]

45 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

 I'm too lazy to go back but did anyone think it would be a Felicity and Oliver scene when they released the dialogue tease?

IIRC everyone assumed it was Curtis because there was a spoiler that he was trying to fix things with Paul, but then the clip came out with Oliver asking Thea to make things right with Susan and we braced for impact. 

[statsgirl]

It was Oliver asking Felicity to fix things with Susan, not Thea.

[ComicFan777]

If it was just a hacking job that Oliver wanted to fix things with Susan, I think he could have asked Curtis or Cisco to do it instead of Felicity because it's not some super secure system - it's not like hacking into the NSA or FBI level work that would require Felicity's expertise.

Edited March 5, 2017 by ComicFan777

[HighHopes]

1 hour ago, Mellowyellow said:

I'm too lazy to go back but did anyone think it would be a Felicity and Oliver scene when they released the dialogue tease? 

I didn't say it here, but I said it over on Twitter that I thought it would be a Felicity/Oliver convo. For a few reasons, usually it is Felicity in the dialogue tease...Or I think she is at least. And because it was at this time in s2 that "Time of Death" happened-- which had the dialogue tease of "You'll always be my girl". (It was also around this time last year with the break-up, so I was expecting some terrible writing for Felicity). 

[LeighAn]

8 minutes ago, ComicFan777 said:

If it was just a hacking job that Oliver wanted to fix things with Susan, I think he could have asked Curtis or Cisco to do it instead of Felicity because it's not some super secure system - it's not like the hacking into the NSA or FBI level work.

Then who is to say if we wouldn't be debating whether Curtis or Cisco are stealing Felicitys job and she's being sidelined as a character like every other time another character has done something that Felicity was more capable of doing.

Would it have been better for Oliver to go to Thea and have Thea confess to Susan boss that she made it up as part of her mea culpa go find herself journey? Probably.

But since the general consensus is that Arrow is only interested in plot and plot alone, the writers needed Oliver to go to Felicity about something about his new girlfriend so that they could show Felicity visibly affected and upset by having to call Susan Olivers girlfriend as a hint to the audience of "why is Felicity upset? Does she maybe have feelings for Oliver still?" because more likely then not it's going to be relevant to a change in storyline for Olicity down the track. 

[way2interested]

37 minutes ago, finnaire said:

I really hope Chase isn’t behind  Helix. He only recently found out through Evelyn that Felicity was part of the team. If, in addition to getting Ninja warrior skills, setting himself up as a DA and BFF with the mayor, we find out he also learns all about the secrets of the dark web and uses it to his benefit, he will be the kind of all powerful big bad that I most hate. I’m hoping Helix turns out to be something Felicity ultimately manages to wrestle control over. And changes its name to Felix, just because.

Idk if he recently found out Felicity was part of the team or not (tbh, I'm still not sure whether he first found out that Oliver was the Arrow/GA in 505, I still think no especially now since we were introduced to Chase through Oliver before Church told Prometheus that Oliver is the GA), but I think he probably recently found out about Billy through Evelyn, to make 509 work.

As for Helix, I think he'll behind getting Felicity into Helix but not necessarily part of/started Helix. Chase is the one who first referenced the NSA to Diggle and Oliver and then Felicity investigated it herself (and Chase was the one who commented that Diggle being free was thanks to the leak, aka Felicity) and ran into Helix. I could see that Prometheus finds Helix (because I'm honestly curious how he did some of the stuff he did in 509 without extra help) and then points them in Felicity's direction to just become a distraction/potential dark side whisperer to pull Felicity away from Oliver, especially since his plan in 509 didn't work. 

Edited March 5, 2017 by way2interested

[Tazmania]

7 hours ago, Mrs. de Winter said:

Oh, no doubt.  Felicity will be show to be dumb and stupid for trusting them and betraying poor, poor Oliver. 

But then again, Oliver has done work for Argus and we have been told they don't always do good things so it will depend on just how questionable the things are that Helix wants her to do.  Right now based on what we have seen on the show I have no reason to want her with Team Arrow, so why not give Helix a try?

And I am guessing my wanting Felicity with Helix is not the writer's intent - but rather another unintended consequence of poor, plot point writing. 

Oliver has worked for Fryers, Argus, Bratva and even League of Assassins (check out the name, duh!) Quentin was working for HIVE last season, but Felicity can't work with Helix who are yet to be shown as evils. At worst, they are vigilantes, like everyone else on the show. Both, the show and the audience has a problem with Felicity acting like human and away from Oliver which is all kinds of sad 

[LeighAn]

4 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Idk if he recently found out Felicity was part of the team or not (tbh, I'm still not sure whether he first found out that Oliver was the Arrow/GA in 505, I still think no especially now since we were introduced to Chase through Oliver before Church told Prometheus that Oliver is the GA), but I think he probably recently found out about Billy through Evelyn, to make 509 work.

As for Helix, I think he'll behind getting Felicity into Helix but not necessarily part of/started Helix. Chase is the one who first referenced the NSA to Diggle and Oliver and then Felicity investigated it herself (and Chase was the one who commented that Diggle being free was thanks to the leak, aka Felicity) and ran into Helix. I could see that Prometheus finds Helix (because I'm honestly curious how he did some of the stuff he did in 509 without extra help) and then points them in Felicity's direction to just become a distraction/potential dark side whisperer to pull Felicity away from Oliver, especially since his plan in 509 didn't work. 

I like this.

I mean I'm guessing when he framed Billy he's intent was to make Felicity hate and turn away from Oliver, thereby taking away the person Oliver loves.

When he realises that Felicity forgave Oliver he realised it was going to take A LOT to corrupt her against Oliver so instead he lays bread crumbs to have her slowly drift away from Oliver by appealing to something that suits her passion and is probably shady up to wazoo. 

Meanwhile he takes Susan and tries his revised turn Oliver girlfriend against him plot on her this time and it maybe ends up working? Highlighting the difference in Susan fibre compared to Felicitys? 

[wonderwall]

11 minutes ago, Tazmania said:

Oliver has worked for Fryers, Argus, Bratva and even League of Assassins (check out the name, duh!) Quentin was working for HIVE last season

But don't you understand just how messed up Oliver and Quentin got just by associating with those groups? Especially Oliver. Why would you want that to happen to Felicity? 

I'm not sure I understand your point. You want Felicity to work with Helix? Why? I personally want it because it'll be entertaining and exciting for me to watch. But if I were her friend, I'd be concerned for her because this is a shady organization that happens to have details on everyone and everything. If anything, Helix could mess Felicity up even further if she doesn't get out in time. 

Felicity is acting like a human being because she's going down a slippery slope and making bad decisions. That shouldn't stop people from worrying about her? People who care about her wouldn't want her to drown in darkness. I think that's fair.

Edited March 5, 2017 by wonderwall

[Sunshine]

3 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

Then who is to say if we wouldn't be debating whether Curtis or Cisco are stealing Felicitys job and she's being sidelined as a character like every other time another character has done something that Felicity was more capable of doing.

Would it have been better for Oliver to go to Thea and have Thea confess to Susan boss that she made it up as part of her mea culpa go find herself journey? Probably.

But since the general consensus is that Arrow is only interested in plot and plot alone, the writers needed Oliver to go to Felicity about something about his new girlfriend so that they could show Felicity visibly affected and upset by having to call Susan Olivers girlfriend as a hint to the audience of "why is Felicity upset? Does she maybe have feelings for Oliver still?" because more likely then not it's going to be relevant to a change in storyline for Olicity down the track. 

Ha! I think your first point is a given.

Oliver did try to get Thea to fix it.  She wouldn't so he asked the person who had the technological expertise to help.  Asking Curtis would have required an additional explanation.  I don't know if Felicity removed the info from her laptop or if she simply sent an anonymous message to Susan's boss.  For proof she probably had to at least reference the files planted. 

Not only why is Felicity upset or uncomfortable but look, inspite of this, Felicity was still supportive of Oliver and he was very receptive to it.    

(I am agreeing with you if it's not obvious.)

[Chaser]

Instead of announcing  RG or JH as a regular, they should announce Felicitys Helix gal pal as recurring next season.

Its my birthday month and I demand it.

[Scribbles]

I don't spend much time thinking about Susan or see her as anything more than villain fodder.  They made a point in almost every episode to show Oliver and Felicity still bound together with a special bind but not together.  What I have seen is Oliver who would jump at another chance with Felicity but lacking any idea how to repair what he broke.  I have seen Felicity trying to go through the motions of moving on but not moving on.  They chose to show her not really willing to throw all in with Billy and they chose to show Oliver only take Susan up on her advances when it seemed Felicity was trying to move on. 

The angst over Susan I am expecting to see is Oliver guilt.  Prometheus told me people around me get hurt and he is right....guilt, guilt, guilt.  SA said the episodes where he has to face the piper (17/18) were hard on him.  Guilt and self loathing on the menu. 

Quentin has issued some of the best quips this season.  I have a sneaky thought he will play a large part in Oliver being able to break the guild/self loathing and thus preventing Prometheus from "winning"  What I am not able to really get is what a win for Prometheus would look like.  He brags in the promo he is ten steps ahead, but to what goal? 

[statsgirl]

Would Prometheus have had time to find Helix after his plan with Billy failed to split Felicity from Oliver?  510 was right after 509 at the end of it, Oliver said he was going to start looking for the Laurel replacement.  511 opens with them looking and it's during that episode that Felicity is contacted by Helix.

If I have it right, 5x16 airs March 15 and 5x17, which is mostly a flashback episode, airs March 22. Is there a hiatus after that?   If Susan isn't released in the flashback episode, it's likely Oliver is still going frantic looking for Susan April 5th.  SA did say that 517 and 518 were exhausting episodes for him to shoot.

36 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Instead of announcing  RG or JH as a regular, they should announce Felicitys Helix gal pal as recurring next season.

Its my birthday month and I demand it.

It was my birthday on Monday and look what Arrow gave me for a present.

[Chaser]

Sweeps birthdays are the worst 

[Thundercatmary]

Well tomorrow is my birthday so lets see what the next ep gives me :p

[lemotomato]

For my birthday I got the Wild Dog after school special episode ?