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Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

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Trisha

Trisha

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"I am open and excited about any possible idea, whether that’s a simple flash-forward narrative that we carry through the season, which I think we did to varying degrees of success in season 4."

I'm sticking with my theory that this season ends with a giant, frustrating flash-forward. They really think the "who's in the grave" stuff was so clever. 

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LeighAn

LeighAn

2 minutes ago, JJ928 said:

I forgot about SA's tequila joke at SDCC. I also forgot about arrowing her boyfriend. Who knows, @Morrigan2575 you may be right about the flashbacks, I hope you are.

I think @Mellowyellow onto something to but it's a way to give the show an Olicity moment without giving us Olicity if they feel they need to continue the dreaded stall.

apinknightmare

apinknightmare

5 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

It's weird though, I always thought Abrams was pretty loyal to Laurel. Guess she's just loyal to any old BC!

She probably understands that ship has sailed, although I don't think she'll fully give it up until it's for sure Laurel isn't coming back in any capacity - which is probably why she asked about Black Siren.

LeighAn

LeighAn

1 minute ago, Trisha said:

I'm sticking with my theory that this season ends with a giant, frustrating flash-forward. They really think the "who's in the grave" stuff was so clever. 

Stephen is a LOST fan and mentioned how much he loved the Jack Shepard Flash Forward moment in the season 3 finale. I think that's why he's so excited by a change up in the flash back concept.

My only question is that now that LOST has done it, and Arrows tried it is it really going to be all that groundbreaking or interesting?

Although I can see the story telling options it opens up for the writers.

If I had my way I'd stick with the flash back concept but not every episode and mix it up with different characters.

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HighHopes

HighHopes

I'm also convinced the series is going to end with Oliver's death. Amell talked about it before, and he again mentioned that the idea came to him in season one. And while I used to hate the idea, I also currently hate Oliver so I'm good with it happening. (Unless of course, they somehow manage to redeem him and fix everything he's done since s3 which I doubt they will..). 

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LeighAn

LeighAn

The show has made the entire serious about Oliver being able to live a normal life after his Island and being human again while being a fully realised hero. Not unlike Ckark Kents journey in Smallville. So I dare say that projecting of someone's personal feelings aside that the show will end with Oliver being a fully realised happy hero with his humanity fully restored.

But I guess time will tell.

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Cleanqueen

Cleanqueen

I am pretty sure he'll give her the same answer he gave when they asked about GA/BC romance last year "our show is our show and we do what works best for the show and aren't following a standard comic book formula" 

 

I am laughing at how she wanted him to basically say yes to a Black Siren redemption story but he basically said "nope not in this life time"

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LeighAn

LeighAn

2 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

I am pretty sure he'll give her the same answer he gave when they asked about GA/BC romance last year "our show is our show and we do what works best for the show and aren't following a standard comic book formula" 

 

I am laughing at how she wanted him to basically say yes to a Black Siren redemption story but he basically said "nope not in this life time"

Yeah but they want to sell Black Canary with there we can't do Arrow without her Schtick so I'm thinking he will say something pro positive about Juliana/Black Canary and something non commital or vague about any romance. 

Although Id laugh if he does his never going to happen answer. 

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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14 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

The show has made the entire serious about Oliver being able to live a normal life after his Island and being human again while being a fully realised hero. Not unlike Ckark Kents journey in Smallville. So I dare say that projecting of someone's personal feelings aside that the show will end with Oliver being a fully realised happy hero with his humanity fully restored.

But I guess time will tell.

I have it in my head that Oliver will fake his death...got to get one final TDKR ripoff in before the series ends for good. 

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Guest

Guest

10 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

I am pretty sure he'll give her the same answer he gave when they asked about GA/BC romance last year "our show is our show and we do what works best for the show and aren't following a standard comic book formula" 

He's probably just gonna repeat what WM or whoever said about Oliver and Dinah having an emotional connection. I don't think he's gonna outright shut down the possibility. I'd be so surprised if he did.

HighHopes

HighHopes

(edited)
2 hours ago, JJ928 said:

Didn't reverse Flash tell Oliver he lives to 70 (or something close to that #)? Then again, Arrow has never cared much about continuity. 

Eh. That was pre-Flashpoint. Unless of course that future was in a Flashpoint world because it was the future and it took into account Barry's mess. 

The finale scene of the series could still be a flash-forward to Oliver's death as he watches the news about Green Arrow 3.0 and Black Canary 23.0 saving the city or something. 

Edited by HighHopes
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LeighAn

LeighAn

1 minute ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I have it in my head that Oliver will fake his death...got to get one final TDKR ripoff in before the series ends for good. 

Hmmm and then we can finally get Catwoman Felicity like Stephen said he'd wished he could get in show haha. 

I still think he's going to get the happy hero Smallville ending, probably even with the whole I'll meet you at City Hall bit with Felicity.

Cleanqueen

Cleanqueen

9 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

Yeah but they want to sell Black Canary with there we can't do Arrow without her Schtick so I'm thinking he will say something pro positive about Juliana/Black Canary and something non commital or vague about any romance. 

Although Id laugh if he does his never going to happen answer. 

Yeah i think he'll just go on a tangent about her as a character and hopefully lead the answer somewhere else. I mean as much as  I hate it, this is a question that needs to be answered because nobody has really addressed it. I hope he just focuses on her past and the relationship she's trying to build with the team.

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calliope1975

calliope1975

(edited)
13 minutes ago, thegirlsleuth said:

Are you looking forward to Paleyfest? :-)

My feelings change on a daily basis. :D With such a big panel, I'm not expecting a ton of focus on Arrow or a bunch of spoilers like I've gotten when it's a one-show panel. I'm curious who the moderator will be. 

Re: Felicity keeping secrets from Oliver. At first, I couldn't figure out how/why TPTB would try to tie that back to Oliver and their relationship. Now, I'm interested in where they're going with this. Felicity's kept secrets from Oliver before (helping the team from Ivy Town) and been forthright with him (Thea's parentage.) A good writing team could explore where her head is at now, and why's she's making these decisions, and I'll stop typing because good writing team and Arrow are two disparate ideas. 

Edited by calliope1975
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LeighAn

LeighAn

3 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

Yeah i think he'll just go on a tangent about her as a character and hopefully lead the answer somewhere else. I mean as much as  I hate it, this is a question that needs to be answered because nobody has really addressed it. I hope he just focuses on her past and the relationship she's trying to build with the team.

I think Marc addressed it when he brought up 10000x times that people shouldn't believe the sides even bringing up that people have mis perceived their intentions and should watch and see what happens. I don't know why they can't just say never going to happen but it's probably because no show runner likes to talk in absolutes *shrug*

That being said I'm really not expecting Stephen to say anything that suggests a Dinah/Oliver romance overtly because I'm not seeing that the show is suggesting it overtly. But I think some will panic regardless if he doesn't  shut down 100% the possibility.

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Cleanqueen

Cleanqueen

9 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

I think Marc addressed it when he brought up 10000x times that people shouldn't believe the sides even bringing up that people have mis perceived their intentions and should watch and see what happens. I don't know why they can't just say never going to happen but it's probably because no show runner likes to talk in absolutes *shrug*

That being said I'm really not expecting Stephen to say anything that suggests a Dinah/Oliver romance overtly because I'm not seeing that the show is suggesting it overtly. But I think some will panic regardless if he doesn't  shut down 100% the possibility.

True. And yeah some will panic if he says something nice about her period. lol

Chaser

Chaser

I like that he didn't just say of course, it's tv. He expanded on it and pointed out the issue between Olicity. That plus what we know is coming up, makes me feel more positive in the outcome.

Was anyone really curious about Olicity between S4 and S5? I was at the beginning but now It kind of seems like nothing happened between them. 

Idk what SA will say about Dinah and BC. I'm thinking he is going to repeat the company line about comic importantance of BC for sure. Beyond that I'm not sure if it's going to a never say never or we've already told our GA and BC story.

I do know for sure I want him to be like "that's kind of gross."

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LeighAn

LeighAn

3 minutes ago, Chaser said:

 

I do know for sure I want him to be like "that's kind of gross."

And with Stephen that's always a possibility haha.

I like that he made the comment that Felicity walked away and that Oliver let her and I'm hoping he phrased it like that because it's something that relevant to one of their upcoming scenes because I felt both of them are guilty in part of not fighting to fix the relationship enough.

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LadyChaos

LadyChaos

2 hours ago, AyChihuahua said:

Seriously. Saying she gave up at the first problem is ignoring 3.5 years of show canon.

The point.....Her walking out on him over him.....essentially 'being him' .............just didn't make sense.......

The first words out of my mouth were, "What? Like you didn't know who you were marrying?  Getting a ring doesn't magically change who he is."

The first words out of my mom's mouth was, "That's not how relationship's work.  That's not how marriage works.  ALL spouses will make mistakes and keep secrets.  What makes a marriage work is that don't bail, but you work through it.  You ain't perfect either. I mean really, he may have done wrong but he honestly just wanted a chance to get to know his son.  How can you leave him for that?"

1 hour ago, LeighAn said:

I'm guessing Stephens quote will go something like this:

"Juliana's  a great girl we love having her on the show. Black Canary is so important to the Green Arrow legacy and I know there's a lot of comic fans eager to see that relationship so we will have to see what happens in the future.

Right now Olivers really focused on his relationship with Susan, they have a connection....."

Isn't that usually the standard answer he'd give when asked about Laurel?

That's the answer he gives when he is lying threw his teeth but knows he cant say what he really feels.

Guest

Guest

3 minutes ago, LadyChaos said:

The point.....Her walking out on him over him.....essentially 'being him' .............just didn't make sense.......

The first words out of my mouth were, "What? Like you didn't know who you were marrying?  Getting a ring doesn't magically change who he is."

The first words out of my mom's mouth was, "That's not how relationship's work.  That's not how marriage works.  ALL spouses will make mistakes and keep secrets.  What makes a marriage work is that don't bail, but you work through it.  You ain't perfect either. I mean really, he may have done wrong but he honestly just wanted a chance to get to know his son.  How can you leave him for that?"

IMO, that's like saying she should've just accepted being lied to because oh well, it's just Oliver being Oliver! He's done it before. She knew what he was like! I personally do not agree with that at all. Keeping a child secret from his future wife was an awful thing to do. And it was even worse when he continued keeping the secret even after mass murderer Malcolm Merlyn found out. The lie should've ended there but instead he trusted everyone but the one person he should've trusted the most.

And while I do feel like there could've been more discussion after she found out, the point is kind of moot because the writers wanted them to break up. So her not walking away was never an option.

insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

14 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Was anyone really curious about Olicity between S4 and S5? I was at the beginning but now It kind of seems like nothing happened between them. 

I was before I saw where they were in S5. But now? I just don't think anything they could say about it would be all that satisfying.

I'd rather see the summers between S2 and S3 and S3 and S4 (and not just with Olicity) than the summer between S4 and S5.

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Cleanqueen

Cleanqueen

Felicity had every right to walk away, but the felicity we know would never just give up like that. The felicity that stood up Ra's and risked drugging oliver just so she wouldn't lose him wouldn't give up that easily. The felicity that Flew in the atom suit risking her life to save her man would not have given up that easily. But we all know why she did, because the writers wanted to. Just like the Oliver we knew would never keep a secret from Felicity because he felt like he had to or was afraid that he would lose her. Nah he would have found a way to tell her esp after Thea and Merlyn found out. Again it was all OOC because the writers wanted a forced break up.

Just now, Cleanqueen said:

Felicity had every right to walk away, but the felicity we know would never just give up like that. The felicity that stood up to Ra's and risked drugging oliver just so she wouldn't lose him wouldn't give up that easily. The felicity that Flew in the atom suit risking her life to save her man would not have given up that easily. But we all know why she did, because the writers wanted to. Just like the Oliver we knew would never keep a secret from Felicity because he felt like he had to or was afraid that he would lose her. Nah he would have found a way to tell her esp after Thea and Merlyn found out. Again it was all OOC because the writers wanted a forced break up.

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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

7 minutes ago, LadyChaos said:

The point.....Her walking out on him over him.....essentially 'being him' .............just didn't make sense.......

The first words out of my mouth were, "What? Like you didn't know who you were marrying?  Getting a ring doesn't magically change who he is."

The first words out of my mom's mouth was, "That's not how relationship's work.  That's not how marriage works.  ALL spouses will make mistakes and keep secrets.  What makes a marriage work is that don't bail, but you work through it.  You ain't perfect either. I mean really, he may have done wrong but he honestly just wanted a chance to get to know his son.  How can you leave him for that?"

Can't agree with this because there was no reason he couldn't tell Felicity about William. None whatsoever. Unless Samantha had him bugged or had the loft bugged or something, there was no way she'd ever find out. Instead, Oliver chose not to tell Felicity, chose to, I assume, make up lies about why he was going to CC when he went to see his son, and chose to not talk to her in 415 but spoke to Diggle and Vixen. 

Just now, Cleanqueen said:

Felicity had every right to walk away, but the felicity we know would never just give up like that. The felicity that stood up Ra's and risked drugging oliver just so she wouldn't lose him wouldn't give up that easily. The felicity that Flew in the atom suit risking her life to save her man would not have given up that easily. But we all know why she did, because the writers wanted to. Just like the Oliver we knew would never keep a secret from Felicity because he felt like he had to or was afraid that he would lose her. Nah he would have found a way to tell her esp after Thea and Merlyn found out. Again it was all OOC because the writers wanted a forced break up.

Yep. And that's why I'm worried about what we're going to get between Oliver and Felicity when it comes to this secret. Will it be OOC again? I wouldn't be surprised if it is.

At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if Oliver gets mad at Felicity for keeping something from him but instantly forgives and continues to date Susan after finding out she's investigating him. Because if that's what the writers want for plot, it's what will happen. 

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Chaser

Chaser

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I think people overlook 4x06 in Felicity's choice to walk away. Looking back, I think that was them laying the groundwork for that decision. Felicity's laid out her fears in a relationship and the impact her parents had on her growing up. After that she really gave everything to Oliver, was completely open and honest with him. And to find out that he took that and then lied to her repeatedly, talked it out with everyone but her, etc. That must have been devastating. And I don't really know what he could have said (though I would have liked to have found out) that would have made that hurt less or convinced her it wouldn't happen again.

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LadyChaos

LadyChaos

(edited)
10 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

Felicity had every right to walk away, but the felicity we know would never just give up like that. The felicity that stood up Ra's and risked drugging oliver just so she wouldn't lose him wouldn't give up that easily. The felicity that Flew in the atom suit risking her life to save her man would not have given up that easily. But we all know why she did, because the writers wanted to. Just like the Oliver we knew would never keep a secret from Felicity because he felt like he had to or was afraid that he would lose her. Nah he would have found a way to tell her esp after Thea and Merlyn found out. Again it was all OOC because the writers wanted a forced break up.

Exactly! For FS to just walk away, was OOC.  Also I am not saying someone should stay in a relationship with someone that is bad for them just because they knew going in.   I'm saying that there was no fighting for their relationship, their bond, their love....anything from either of them.....they both just gave up.....  My mom's point was that, that's not an option in marriage,  if you want your marriage to work you have to try to make it work not just give up and walk away.

 

To me....the thing that sat more unsettling with me was how fast she forgave her mom.  Her mom lied to her for 20 years.  She believed that her father left her.  She told her father she believed she was UNLOVABLE because he had left her.   She admitted that she had self esteem problems, relationship problems....because she thought she wasn't good enough.  Her mother did that, and never stepped forward and said anything.  But she forgave her mother, because she understood her mother meant well and was trying to protect her.

...........But she ....called off her wedding and left Oliver and  the team because he kept a secret for 3 months, thinking he was doing the right thing and was protecting his son.

Also....I'm not blaming FS..........I'm blaming writers for making her OOC to fit their story.

 

Regardless...........we are circling the drain.....we should change the subject.

Edited by LadyChaos
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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

1 minute ago, Chaser said:

I think people overlook 4x06 in Felicity's choice to walk away. Looking back, I think that was them laying the groundwork for that decision. Felicity's laid out her fears in a relationship and the impact her parents had on her growing up. After that she really gave everything to Oliver, was completely open and honest with him. And to find out that he took that and then lied to her repeatedly, talked it out with everyone but her, etc. That must have been devastating. And I don't really know what he could have said (though I would have liked to have found out) that would have made that hurt less or convinced her it wouldn't happen again.

True. And then there's 4x08 where she told him that they were a team and she wanted to be a good teammate. 

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Cleanqueen

Cleanqueen

5 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

 

Yep. And that's why I'm worried about what we're going to get between Oliver and Felicity when it comes to this secret. Will it be OOC again? I wouldn't be surprised if it is.

At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if Oliver gets mad at Felicity for keeping something from him but instantly forgives and continues to date Susan after finding out she's investigating him. Because if that's what the writers want for plot, it's what will happen. 

I am hoping the second time they have an adult conversation it means they learned from the errors of the first adult conversation that happened exactly a year ago. The thing here is he can't be mad at her for keeping this secret but he can only understand why she's keeping it. So what i expect from him is an actual light bulb going on in his head for the first time all seasons and he chooses  to reevaluate the choices he's made thus far. Like why would Felicity feel the need to be secretive about this, why can't she trust him, what does it mean when the person who used to trust him the most no longer can trust him at all. 

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Trisha

Trisha

5 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

So, am I misreading that interview or is there going to be a tragic event involving Thea?

Yeah, SA saying "I think that there’s a significant worry for the state of his sister" doesn't sound good for Thea. That plus WM's talk about her becoming more like Moira makes me wonder if there's more coming up for Thea than just her clashing with Susan. On the other hand, WH isn't contracted for many more eps this season so I'm not sure how deep they can go with her storylines. 

Sunshine

Sunshine

I can't help but worry for Thea.  I keep thinking about the picture of the limo, especially after David said we weren't finished with Slade in the same sentence he talked about Prometheus being the big bad.  Irrational fear, perhaps, but they love their parallels.  Willa doesn't appear to have filmed since 5.14 either.  I guess we'll know soon.  

Sunshine

Sunshine

(edited)

Actually I was thinking injured seriously, maybe in a coma.  She wakes up later in the season.  A tragedy involving Thea might also be what prompts the return of Malcolm Merlyn. The only 2 characters I really "feel" anything for anymore are Felicity and Thea which is why I "worry". :-)  I like others.  I'm just not really invested in any of them anymore.   

Edited by Sunshine
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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

4 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

Actually I was thinking injured seriously, maybe in a coma.  She wakes up later in the season.  A tragedy involving Thea might also be what prompts the return of Malcolm Merlyn. The only 2 characters I really "feel" anything for anymore are Felicity and Thea which is why I "worry". :-)  I like others.  I'm just not really invested in any of them anymore.   

They're going to have to explain her absence in some way and I really don't want more of the conference/just offscreen excuses. Maybe she makes a choice similar to the one Moira did? I'm not saying she sacrifices herself, but maybe there is some sort of choice for her to make involving someone else that results in her absence for several episodes?

It really is hard to be invested in most of these characters in season 5. 

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Starfish35

Starfish35

5 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

Actually I was thinking injured seriously, maybe in a coma.  She wakes up later in the season.  A tragedy involving Thea might also be what prompts the return of Malcolm Merlyn. The only 2 characters I really "feel" anything for anymore are Felicity and Thea which is why I "worry". :-)  I like others.  I'm just not really invested in any of them anymore.   

I could see that.  The only thing is that it kind of feels like a season three rehash, but having no Lazarus Pit around now might give them a reason to have WH offscreen for several episodes (probably 5.15-5.20?).

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