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Celebrating 25 Years Of The West Wing

Spoiler Discussion Thread

Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

Challenge accepted.

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Chaser

Chaser

3 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

What was it that he had said? I can't remember.

Basically that he got a juicy Arrow spoiler.

This is what the second, third time he has waited until someone else has spoiled something before 'confirming'. And apparently he only found it out the last week. Sounds like his sources aren't as good as they used to be. 

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Trisha

Trisha

Once again, WM is putting everything about Felicity's upcoming arc on Billy. At least WB and BFS said it's a cumulative result of all the things she's suffered:

http://screenertv.com/television/arrow-wendy-mericle-diggle-felicity/

Quote

That path isn't the only darkness Felicity is facing the remainder of this season, though. As Mericle previously told Screener, "The grieving [her dead boyfriend] is not going to stop. We're going to be feeling the repercussions of what happened with Malone at least through episode 520."

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Guest

Guest

Quote

Poor Felicity just can't catch a break. But it should come as a surprise to nobody that she's willing to sacrifice herself to save Diggle.

My Delicity! <3

Look at Felicity being a wonderful friend. 

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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

Oh my God, Billy was not this important when he was alive. There was no "spring in Felicity's step." She was not happy with him. She could barely choke out his name/call him her boyfriend. (Did she call him Billy before 509? I feel like it was always "Detective Malone," which was just weird for the guy she was dating.) WM needs to stop talking. 

But if they do go there with Oliver/Dinah and Olicity is truly over for good, I expect this arc of Felicity's, which apparently couldn't happen if Billy hadn't died, to be the best thing the show ever did. Otherwise, why kill off her boyfriend? Why put her through even more pain? 

I do have to say that I'm tentatively excited for this tease about Felicity and Diggle because it means they have to give us Felicity/Diggle scenes, right? Come on, show. At least don't let me down there. 

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catrox14

catrox14

I don't get why Felicity's arc is even tied to Billy. I mean Havenrock was traumatic  enough to mess her up. She would go after Prometheus just for him being a bad guy setting up Oliver regardless of whom he killed. What a weird plot line for her. Billy was not shown to be so important for her that she goes all vengeance for him.

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Guest

Guest

(edited)

I guess they felt they needed a trigger for her arc? I mean, she had plenty from previous seasons, with her getting shot and paralyzed and lied to by her fiancé. And all that mess with her dad and Laurel dying and getting fired. Oh and then Havenrock. (Holy shit, she went through so much in s4!) But they probably felt they couldn't suddenly have her dark path start after months of being okay. 

All that would've taken in some actual good writing and showing her still traumatized from previous events but nah. They had to give her a boyfriend who Oliver could kill instead. Gotta make it all about a man on Arrow, right? Ugh.  

Whatever. I don't believe she's grieving Mayo Bread right up through 520 because she cared about him so much, especially when she couldn't even call him her boyfriend. I'm choosing to believe she feels more guilt than anything. 

Edited by Guest
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SmallScreenDiva

SmallScreenDiva

(edited)
16 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I don't get why Felicity's arc is even tied to Billy. I mean Havenrock was traumatic  enough to mess her up. She would go after Prometheus just for him being a bad guy setting up Oliver regardless of whom he killed. What a weird plot line for her. Billy was not shown to be so important for her that she goes all vengeance for him.

And Laurel was shown during all this time (except for the retcon this season) to be not really not that important to Oliver considering how he treated her and yet they've put his entire emotional/moral dilemma this season on her death. So, really the explanation to all this is "because plot."

Also, Billy is not just a trigger for Felicity. He was also a stall. In fact, that was his primary purpose in the first half of the season. Being a trigger for Felicity (and in a slightly diminished way, for Oliver) is his role in the back half.

10 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Whatever. I don't believe she's grieving Mayo Bread right up through 520 because she cared about him so much, especially when she couldn't even call him her boyfriend. I'm choosing to believe she feels more guilt than anything. 

Yup, I can buy the guilt more than the grief.

Edited by SmallScreenDiva
Added Billy stuff
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Guest

Guest

(edited)
5 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Yup, I can buy the guilt more than the grief.

Yeah. Like, I'm not saying Felicity is heartless and didn't care about Mayo at all. But it's clear to me she didn't love him so I just don't believe she would be so devastated for so long over someone she couldn't even call her boyfriend. Especially when you think that she had one episode to grieve over her paralysis. ONE episode! Expecting me to buy her grief over Mayo for 10 plus episodes is an absolute joke. That's why I think it's guilt. Unless they really do think their audience is stupid. IDK. Haha.

Edited by Guest
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catrox14

catrox14

4 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

And Laurel was shown during all this time (except for the retcon this season) to be not really not that important to Oliver considering how he treated her and yet they've put his entire emotional/moral dilemma this season on her death. So, really the explanation to all this is "because plot."

Remember when character informed plot? I miss those days.

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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

3 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

I guess they felt they needed a trigger for her arc? I mean, she had plenty from previous seasons, with her getting shot and paralyzed and lied to by her fiancé. And all that mess with her dad and Laurel dying and getting fired. Oh and then Havenrock. (Holy shit, she went through so much in s4!) But they probably felt they couldn't suddenly have her dark path start after months of being okay. 

All that would've taken in some actual good writing and showing her still traumatized from previous events

This would have been such a good storyline for 5A. They could have just had her hiding it but slipping occasionally to let the audience know what was going on but have the other characters completely oblivious. They could have even had someone from another show pick it up during the crossover but it get lost in everything else going on, so they could still stretch it out until 5B for everyone else to notice.

But yeah, it gets really sad when you start listing out everything that happened to Felicity in S4 and think about how they had so much to explore and didn't. 

9 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

It's Wendy trying to explain why they even gave Felicity a boyfriend in the first place. I mean couldn't Billy just be a friend she met at SCPD and then Oliver killed by  accident.

Billy might as well have been her friend. He basically was (just a friend she also had sex with). 

Or Felicity didn't even need to necessarily know him. But Oliver could have been put in a position to kill a good cop part of his ACU and after Felicity had to make that awful decision about Havenrock and then saw what Prometheus did to Oliver with that, she decided she had enough of the villain putting them in positions like that and went on her own path. But nope. Felicity had to have a BF so Oliver could date Susan (and maybe Dinah). 

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SmallScreenDiva

SmallScreenDiva

12 minutes ago, Belinea said:

They simply needed Felicity to have moved on so that Oliver could do it too without looking like the bad guy. They knew that Susan and possibly TinahD are waiting.

Bingo! 

Not so much with DTinah but with Susan. I don't think he's gonna bang NuCanary. But then again, this is Arrow and they do love to make their hero be incredibly stupid.

I do wonder if NuCanary is not a misdirect of some sort. 

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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

You know, Arrow is really fortunate that there are apparently no other cities that could use vigilantes. Especially, in this case, Hub City. They're going and taking someone who's supposedly doing some good there to get on their radar and bringing her to a city where they have an entire team of masks. 

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Just caught up on this thread...

TPTB want social media buzz. By introducing Dinah Drake, they're getting social media buzz. If some fans start shipping Tina/Dinah with Oliver, they'll get social media buzz.  If they re-ignite the BC vs. Olicity feud, they'll get social media buzz. Regardless of the ridiculousness of the entire set-up, the ABF* crowd is going to support Tina/Dinah becoming a regular cast member and Oliver's love interest (Dinahver?), and they will want her to become the female lead on the show. 

(* Anyone But Felicity)

By the way, Craig has already jumped on the Tina/Dinah bandwagon...

‘Arrow': Why a New Black Canary Is a Good Thing
BY CRAIG BYRNE     Feb. 1, 2017
http://collider.com/arrow-new-black-canary-katie-cassidy/ 

Quote

... Naturally, an instinct is that such a storyline may be disrespectful to actress Katie Cassidy, who put so much of her life and training to become Arrow’s Black Canary, but I actually don’t have that feeling. From my perspective, Arrow is just giving us some slices of the DC Universe that we were always expecting, but in new and exciting ways.
*  *  *
As someone who has enjoyed Arrow from the start, and someone who really appreciated what Katie Cassidy brought to the role (particularly in seeing her journey to becoming a Black Canary) I am completely fine with the choice of a new Black Canary, provided Cassidy wasn’t disrespected in the process. I don’t feel she has been. Nothing is saying that the Black Siren can’t have her “redemption arc” later in the series. The show has already welcomed Katie back, and I’d assume they will continue to do so whenever she may be available. But if Katie is unavailable, should we really have a show with no Black Canary? It’s also exciting to me to possibly see a character who is fully formed with complete control of her powers. Best of all, it puts the Black Canary — an important part of the Green Arrow mythos — back on the table. With Speedy working in the mayor’s office and Felicity the only female representation on the team at the moment, she would certainly add a lot.

... A new Black Canary does not take away from the contributions that Katie Cassidy made in the first four seasons of the show. Laurel will always be a part of the show’s DNA, and so will Katie Cassidy. A new Black Canary doesn’t take away from the possibility of “Olicity” getting back together. But it could continue the already positive movement toward being the vigilante drama we all know Arrow can be.

In light of that reddit spoiler, SA's recent tweet now has double meaning (to fans, not to SA) - and JH responded to it...

I'm here for the Felicity/Diggle storyline. But this season is looking more and more like my last for Arrow.

Edited by tv echo
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Cleanqueen

Cleanqueen

 A new Black Canary doesn’t take away from the possibility of “Olicity” getting back together. But it could continue the already positive movement toward being the vigilante drama we all know Arrow can be.

Oh Craig....LOOOL

Also: I am completely fine with the choice of a new Black Canary, provided Cassidy wasn’t disrespected in the process. I don’t feel she has been.

If having your character die and come back and get punched in the face by the woman who took your leading lady status isn't disrespect(albeit could be earned) I dont know what is.

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Trisha

Trisha

6 minutes ago, Belinea said:

While some may find it cute, can I just say that I find that tweet super annoying. Maybe it is just the bitterness but I can't even anymore.

Maybe I'm just not getting it, but I didn't understand JH's response at all?

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Starfish35

Starfish35

(edited)

I've been looking around to see where the response so far has been in other places.  One comment that's come up a couple of times that I hadn't even thought of....this essentially makes Laurel the Henry James Olsen of Arrow.   ROFL I'm sorry, but I find that hilarious.

And I completely disagree with Craig that this doesn't take anything away from KC's BC.  It absolutely does in my opinion.  I feel like that's some deliberate denial going on there.  Which, if that's what you gotta do to enjoy it, more power to you.  I guess. :)

As far as Sara goes...I've made my peace with that.  It's not my first choice of course, but as long as they don't make Dinah to be a better fighter than Sara (and they'd be crazy to do that, comics aside, for several reasons), then I'm good with it.  Maybe we can eventually even get a real White Canary/Black Canary team-up, once they give Sara a chance to work through the weirdness.  (I just want one "what the hell were you thinking Ollie?" scene.)

Edited by Starfish35
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Guest

Guest

(edited)

LOL. Of course these fanboys will be happy with any old BC as long as GA/BC are together. They really don't care who is behind the mask at all. Women are interchangeable. This is the male demo this show is catering to after all.

Also, I'm not sure how you can't see that KC has been disrespected. They literally replaced her. With a meta. Like, wow. How can Craig not see that?! Yikes.

Edited by Guest
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calliope1975

calliope1975

7 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

LOL. Of course these fanboys will be happy with any old BC as long as GA/BC are together. They really don't care who is behind the mask at all. Women are interchangeable. This is the male demo this show is catering to after all.

Also, I'm not sure how you can't see that KC has been disrespected. They literally replaced her. With a meta. Like, wow. How can Craig not see that?! Yikes.

Clearly, we have different definitions of disrespect. It really does illuminate how interchangeable women are, as you said. They truly only care about a name and tacky leather.

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Chaser

Chaser

29 minutes ago, Trisha said:

Maybe I'm just not getting it, but I didn't understand JH's response at all?

I googled 'bup'

Urban Dictionary had a few different meanings. My favorite was a word used to promote confusion and to get attention. lol

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Guest

Guest

7 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

Clearly, we have different definitions of disrespect. It really does illuminate how interchangeable women are, as you said. They truly only care about a name and tacky leather.

Yep. The trouble is, fanboys are not the only viewers. So this is just one big pile of garbage of their own making. Haha. 

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LeighAn

LeighAn

Maybe Julianas tweet was in reference to the show but I think when Stephen was tweeted about his name being near Drake....he was tweeting about the actual fact that his name was near Drakes. Because it was.

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LeighAn

LeighAn

6 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

I think Craig just really wants a BC on Arrow and his beloved comic canon couple, LOL. He is aware LL isn't a option so he decided to embrace this one..

Also Craig is an every thing is awesome type fan probably because it keeps him with access. Other then his distaste for Olicity he rarely is truly critical of the show.

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bijoux

bijoux

You know, Ithink I've reached the point where I'm watching the show and taking in the spoilers selectively. Yeah, there's stupid stuff, but also, EK got pics of EBR, DR and SA in the make up trailer on the same day. My take away? Yay, OTA.

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