Spoiler Discussion Thread

[thegirlsleuth]

I really don't think baby BC will be on the team full time. Seriously. This seems to be someone who liked what Laurel's BC was doing and wants to take up her mantle after her death. And considering the city is going to hell again, I can see why she'd come out and try to help.

But look! At least they'll get comic canon age difference between GA and BC, right? LMAO. (This is a joke, please don't think I'm even suggesting a romantic thing because I'm not. Just want to clarify in case of meltdowns. Haha.)

I thought of the comic canon age difference but took comfort in the fact that I think dating a teenager/young adult is a plot point that Amell would kill with fire.

[looptab]

Really? Again? Wow, how hasn't her hair fallen off her head yet?

Edited April 16, 2016 by looptab

[Starfish35]

So....not just a once or twice thing?

https://mobile.twitter.com/pursuit23/status/721340571814526976

[looptab]

[Velocity23]

Arrow wrap part tonight!

https://twitter.com/charlotteross/status/721403684291104768

[nksarmi]

Not really accepting. I don't want baby BC at all either. I don't even know why they're doing it tbh. Like you said, they need to focus on the characters they already have. 

 

But I don't see her being a permanent addition anyway. Maybe recurring like Nyssa which would be ok, I think? Trying not to worry about it until we know who she is exactly.

 

I wouldn't want her as much as we get Nyssa. I'd rather get more of Lyla and Roy.  I just really feel like this show doesn't need any more characters - they just need to work with the rich pool of characters they already have.  Plus after years of BC vs Canary vs White Canary - I am so ready for BC to be dead and gone. So I'm not going to be bothered by her until she turns into Dawn from Buffy or the character Penny from Big Bang played on the last season of Charmed (which I did not watch). Since she's already filmed for this season - I will just remain hopeful that she doesn't show up in season five - at all.

Edited April 16, 2016 by nksarmi

[Velocity23]

She isnt blonde. Its her hair colour. Its golden brown. When light hits it it looks blonder.

 

From yesterday.

[bijoux]

Arrow wrap part tonight!

https://twitter.com/charlotteross/status/721403684291104768

I know this happens, but I find it odd to have a wrap party before you, you know, wrap.

[lemotomato]

So if Madison M's BC 2.0 is already recurring this season, that means 1) This is the second show where KC was fired/let go and her role was recast and 2) Her replacement gets introduced on the show literally before her character's body is in the ground. That's like, Shondra Rhimes-level cold.

 

I had thought that the story decision to kill off a character came first, and TPTB used the opportunity to get rid of KC, but now I wonder if it was the other way around.

Edited April 16, 2016 by lemotomato

[FurryFury]

It's weird to me everybody's so worked up about the new "BC". I though it was clear it's just some random NPC, uh, guest character who'll be used to show that BC still mattered and inspired some people blahblahblah. No need to worry.

[Velocity23]

 

So if Madison M's BC 2.0 is already recurring this season, that means 1) This is the second show where KC was fired/let go and her role was recast and 2) Her replacement gets introduced on the show literally before her character's body is in the ground. That's like, Shondra Rhimes-level cold.

I think it was with possibility for recurring. The guy who played Ted Grant was the same. And we saw him for 3 or 4 episodes. Same with CL in s3. They announced she is becoming recurring and then they killed her off in s3 premiere.

[Belinea]

She isnt blonde. Its her hair colour. Its golden brown. When light hits it it looks blonder.

 

Oops, then the video must have been old that I've seen. Sorry. 

[Velocity23]

Nah i think it was the sunlight. There were several pics where her hair looks lighter but then the next day its brown. Its just the way the light hits her hair.

[lemotomato]

I think it was with possibility for recurring. The guy who played Ted Grant was the same. And we saw him for 3 or 4 episodes. Same with CL in s3. They announced she is becoming recurring and then they killed her off in s3 premiere.

If they have her in at least 2 episodes that we know of, I think the show is going to gauge how she's received and that might determine how often she'll show up next season.

 

I'm just going to hope that she gets a regular gig somewhere else far away, like NYC or Chicago (looks like she had a couple appearances on Chicago PD) that limits her availability. 

Edited April 16, 2016 by lemotomato

[apinknightmare]

I don't really care about a new BC one way or another character-wise. My only disappoint is - assuming she works with Team Arrow, and is around with any kind of regularity - that it would be even more crowded than before. Curtis is in on things and seems to be around quite a bit now (I suppose I'll wait and see how BTS presence translates to on-screen presence before I judge), and yet another character just exacerbates the issue the show was already having with too many people running around and not enough for everyone to do. 

[Velocity23]

Didnt MG imply in an interview that it doesnt mean necessarily that the person wearing BC gear will be a hero ...

[apinknightmare]

Didnt MG imply in an interview that it doesnt mean necessarily that the person wearing BC gear will be a hero ...

 

I can't remember his exact wording, but yeah. I wasn't sure if that meant she needed someone to rein her in (since I think she's supposed to be a recently escaped cult member) and doesn't start out heroic but becomes heroic, or if she's operating for the other side or somewhere in the middle. 

[Velocity23]

 

Is the title of Black Canary up for grabs and we could see someone new in that role in the future?

“I don’t know that I would say up for grabs,” Guggenheim says. “I think it’s a mantle that multiple people have had. We’ll play with that notion in episode 19. I personally like the idea that DC Comics, all the comics, they all have the concept of legacy. We’ve seen on Legends that someone picks up Oliver Queen’s mantle, for example. We’re in that world, but we lean into it pretty strongly in 19. That doesn’t always mean that the person is a hero. [Episode] 19 is the answer to that question.”

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/04/06/arrow-laurel-death-spoilers

[statsgirl]

Now, in light of recent poilers, for the last episode 4X23, it could be a ghost or flashback

 

 

Man you guys are accepting - I don't want Baby Canary at all.  I mean, I wish they weren't even doing this plot - not for one episode or two and sure as hell not into season five.  The upside of freaking killing BC/Laurel was freaking killing BC/Laurel! 

 

It was killing a team member - showing the consequences of their life.  How are they doing that if they let some teenager put on the BC costume and run around? They should shut her down hard or kill her off in the finale. I'm sorry but there are no "consequences" to their lifestyle if they start going to "Robin" route.

I really hope it's a ghost or flashback because if there is weight in the death of an original character, especially a mask, they need to be, you know, dead.

I wasn't KC's biggest fan but this feels very disrespectful to me. It started with Sara and the Canary, let the Black Canary die with Laurel.

I could go for a young girl feeling inspired by the Black Canary and trying to be her now that she's dead but I only want it for that one episode while the rest of Team Arrow prove to her that it's a very bad and dangerous idea. If she wants to be someone else after she's got adequate training, then let her be someone else. If they want to have Team Arrow Junior, then put her in that but not as the Black Canary.

On the other hand, the disaster that was Chase is a cheering thought.

Maybe MG's being really twisty and she's someone Ruve Adams puts out there? Nah.

I know this happens, but I find it odd to have a wrap party before you, you know, wrap.

I imagine they're doing it because so many of the cast live in LA or elsewhere and they don't wamt to hang around Vancouver waiting for the bitter end. CR has a young son I imagine she's anxious to get back to.

[Ann Mack]

I am no Laurel Lance fan but damn if they are going to kill the character can they at least let her have an episode to be laid to rest and respect paid before they go all "surprise bitch" with someone else running around in the outfit? IMO this the dumbest thing ever and sort of repetitive of when Sara died and Laurel ran around pretending to be her. Sometimes I just want to scream at this show "FIND SOME DAMN ORIGINALITY"!!!!!  I really wish some of the writers from "Nikita" were around to show Arrow how to do it right! Also, "Nikita" had some of the BEST FIGHT SEQUENCES EVER  and that may be because they kept alot of those fight scenes confined to Nikita, Michael, Alex & Owen even sometimes my love Ryan would even get involved, huh......good TV good times!!

 

[wonderwall]

IDK I think what's weird is the thought that BC was ever a notable vigilante to copycat. Sorry, but BC sucked on this show. She was merely a sidekick and never really had a notable heroic moment (aka a heroic moment that she was an integral part of that was done for the better good and not just to make her 'feel alive')... I wouldn't imagine anyone wanting to set the bar that low... 

[dtissagirl]

I'm more surprised by the paps saying *now* that Baby Canary's been on set a lot after Laurel died. That was important info to have at anytime between 419 and now, paps. Do your jobs.

[tarotx]

It is funny that MG&co are negating some of the cries against Laurel's death by bringing in this new girl. So Black Canary will be in the verse to appeal if the show desires. I'm starting to really believe that Katie was in fact fired fired.

 

I wonder if they will name baby canary, Dinah? The comic book fans only care about that name Dinah so if she's not named Dinah it's pointless to add her.

Perhaps if everything goes well with her they can have her on a LOT episode and have her meet alternate Future Green Arrow/Connor Hawke John Diggle Jr.

[nksarmi]

Ack no I don't want her on LoT!!!! John Diggle Jr. is a cool concept. Showing me that Sara had a daughter at some point whom she named Dinah after her dead sister - and that daughter decided to take up her aunt/mother's mantle and become BC would also be cool.

 

You know what's not cool? 5 minutes after Laurel's dead - shoving a teenage BC on me!  I don't care what her name is. I don't care what her reasons are or what her training is. I already hate her and I want her gone.

 

This is EXACTLY like Laurel's speech to Oliver at the end of the last episode.  Who the HELL does MG think he will please with this?  Those who think this show failed BC will not be amused with this.  Those who loved Laurel will hate it.  Those who don't think BC belongs on Arrow will hate it.  I mean, there is literally NO fanbase that I can think of that this will appeal to.  WTF?

Edited April 16, 2016 by nksarmi

[statsgirl]

Surely they're not stupid enough to bring in a Black Canary replacement and call her Dinah?  That would be putting gasoline on the existing flames. 

 

I haven't even met her yet and I don't want Future Green Arrow/Connor Hawke John Diggle Jr. to be weighted down by her.

[SmallScreenDiva]

I'm sort of in a wait-and-see mode with the baby bird, trying not to get worked up over it. But it would be bizarre if Arrow is indeed bringing in another Black Canary. And I'm not even thinking about it being disrespectful to a dead character. Plain and simple, this show doesn't need a BC. Never did. It also doesn't need another mask, especially with Curtis most likely suiting up next season. I don't care if it would only be a recurring role. That's still screen time I'd rather the show spends developing the main characters better, or just letting scenes breathe a little. Maybe more "normal" moments so their lives aren't all just wrapped up in vigilante-ing. If they want a young vigilante storyline, give it to Thea so she'll have more to do than being angsty over her evil dad.

 

Edited because I can't spell :P

Edited April 16, 2016 by SmallScreenDiva

[tarotx]

But this is MG's show-he can make the show he wants or so I read a billion times the last week + after Laurel was killed :p

 

But I don't want this new girl neither I don't see the point of her either. I do feel that she'll probably get her own color if she stays around. 

[catrox14]

You know I don't like KC and I hated Laurel...

 

but it does really bug me that they are casting younger person as even a temporary BC. Are they just being ageist here? It kind of feels that way TBH.  I mean they already have Sara, just let her move between shows and on Arrow she wears Black and on LoT she wears concrete? 

 

I feel like Black Canary is still eating Arrow in teensy bites and it's kind of pissing me off. Sigh

Edited April 16, 2016 by catrox14

[tarotx]

I guess it depends on how old is Madison's character. She looks like a teen BC to me. And Laurel's BC was shown to (have a quick show off moment?) protect children. It seems right to me that a young girl would be her fan. But yeah KC's is edging toward 30 and this is the CW. Not surprising it's now they are willing to lose her. 

Edited April 16, 2016 by tarotx

[Velocity23]

I really dont think it has anything to do with her age, but the fact they just wanted her gone.

[hogwash]

Another OC Canary? I appreciate that they've taking steps to reverse the boneheaded/nonsensical decision to kill Sara so Laurel could take over the mantle but we're quickly reaching overkill territory...

Edited April 16, 2016 by hogwash

[tangerine95]

I really doubt the new girl will actually be BC because they put BC on Laurel's gravestone and exposed her identity. So I feel like this will be just a copycat situation but I'm just not sure why it's being dragged out beyond 4.19.And I do think and hope they're not dumb enough to add another mask especially one that would be an imitation of the one they killed off, on a regular basis or the team when they will already probably add Curtis as a mask in season 5.

[kes0704]

I know I should wait and see how the story plays out but I don't want any more canaries showing up on Arrow.

If they want the loss of LL/BC to have any weight in the story then don't replace her almost immediately with a pretender. Plus we've already seen that play out when Laurel took the mask from Sara and it makes the Black Canary as a character seem pretty disposable.

[tarotx]

I doubt Madison will end up as the BC. She'll get her own color Canary if she's back next season. Having Laurel take up Sara's mantra when they barely had a relationship is more offending to me then a canary fangirl taking up the mantra. I like the idea that Laurel made an impact. I just wish the show would have had it just one episode with a recurring potential-instead of making her recurring already. I wanted the girl to decide she was going to be a Lawyer instead at the end of the episode :( This way just feels like a haha to KC. 

[Thundercatmary]

Do we know for sure this new girl playing Baby Canary is recurring?

[tarotx]

Her character's casting was listed as may be recurring so she's not officially recurring. But she is in 4.19 and Madison was liking Bam's tweets about the finale. And now paps are saying a BC has been on site more than once since KC left.

Do we know for sure this new girl playing Baby Canary is recurring?

[wonderwall]

I had a terrible thought... What if baby BC helps Oliver/Felicity in episode 20 and it's not just them working as a team? 

 

*sigh*

[way2interested]

I had a terrible thought... What if baby BC helps Oliver/Felicity in episode 20 and it's not just them working as a team? 

 

*sigh*

I would have that fear, since press releases do have the tendency to leave out spoiler details, but since 420 is also the episode where Ben and the other writers went all heart eyes for Olicity on twitter, I've got to think that something is happening with the two of them in that episode. 

[kismet]

I really do think that they are going to have another rope/Tarzan swing!

 

Which also leads me to think that if FS & OQ do go to Lian Yu, do you think that they will visit the graves? If so will OQ tell the story of Poppy be a way that they can reconnect and perhaps that will be the big purpose for Poppy being a parallel or link to O/F.

[nksarmi]

I doubt Madison will end up as the BC. She'll get her own color Canary if she's back next season. Having Laurel take up Sara's mantra when they barely had a relationship is more offending to me then a canary fangirl taking up the mantra. I like the idea that Laurel made an impact. I just wish the show would have had it just one episode with a recurring potential-instead of making her recurring already. I wanted the girl to decide she was going to be a Lawyer instead at the end of the episode :( This way just feels like a haha to KC. 

 

I don't want another Canary of any color but more than that - I don't want this girl on the show.  I felt that when they first started talking about her but I hoped whatever her story was - it was tied to HIVE and would end quickly.

 

Now I really don't like what I'm hearing. I want her gone, gone, very very gone.

 

This show has so many characters to work with that I already care about on some level - obviously the core: Oliver, Diggle, and Felicity - but I'd take stories involving Thea/Not-Malcolm, Quentin, Donna, Roy, Curtis/Paul, Lyla/Baby Sara, Nyssa, Felicity's dad, Walter, or even Huntress/Vixen before I want to meet another character and have them waste time on her. The fact that she is going to be a BC copy-cat just ensures I will hate instead of just being annoyed every moment she was on my screen.

 

Arrow used up all my "wait and see" goodwill in season three with the LoA plot.  Now I'm in the "bitch ahead of time so maybe I can get it out of my system and find something to enjoy about the episode when it actually airs" camp.  I also am a member of "think of the worst possible scenario and maybe what they show me won't be as bad" club.  It got me through BM drama.

[tarotx]

This show always has characters they waste time on. Ones the fans like only when they are about to leave. Extra characters aren't the problem. Many shows have a lot of characters and do it well. Imo Arrow's problem is most characters are only loosely connected to Oliver now. This new girl has no connection.

Edited April 17, 2016 by tarotx

[Morrigan2575]

All cleared up now

Edited April 17, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[AyChihuahua]

As an aside, I saw the Baby Canary actress's episodes of SPN, and she's not good. This isn't going to be a situation in which the actor totally elevates iffy material. 

 

So yeah, it irritates me, bc I've been in the camp that no Canary is needed on Arrow for ages now. If we HAVE to have a Baby Canary, they should have brought back Sin. She'd be Snark Canary, and I could live with that on a recurring basis. 

[statsgirl]

.And I do think and hope they're not dumb enough to add another mask especially one that would be an imitation of the one they killed off, on a regular basis

Sara was The Canary and she got killed while she was unsuspedting, Laurel was the Black Canary and she got killed when she was helpless ... you'd think they would learn from the pattern and never name anyone any kind of Canary again.

[tarotx]

Yeah it's probaby more the sex of said Canaries that make them prone to disrespectful deaths.

Sara was The Canary and she got killed while she was unsuspedting, Laurel was the Black Canary and she got killed when she was helpless ... you'd think they would learn from the pattern and never name anyone any kind of Canary again.

[BkWurm1]

On the flipside, if Baby Canary is around next season, they could set up next-gen team arrow with Thea, Roy, Baby Canary, and Curtis, while maintaining OTA setup.  The dynamics could be similar to season 2 with the mini Scoobies and the experienced team tackling different missions.

A set up like that could give SA some more down time. After four years of probably a grueling schedule (remember last year when he mentioned the times he had to get hooked up to IV's of vitamins and nutrients) he might just welcome spreading the responsibilities. Setting up a sub team that works independently would actually do that.  And we do end the season with an episode that implies a splitting or break from agreement.   

 

So....not just a once or twice thing?

https://mobile.twitter.com/pursuit23/status/721340571814526976

 

 

Her character's casting was listed as may be recurring so she's not officially recurring. But she is in 4.19 and Madison was liking Bam's tweets about the finale. And now paps are saying a BC has been on site more than once since KC left.

I think the tweet about her being seen a lot on set since BC died is misleading.  In a reply further down after he's asked if Madison plays her, he only mentions that yes, it's Madison in 4-19 but he doesn't know who it is in the final.  If BC was in other episodes, I think he would have brought them up too.  Maybe she's just around a lot in those two episodes.

Edited April 17, 2016 by BkWurm1

[looptab]

I would have that fear, since press releases do have the tendency to leave out spoiler details, but since 420 is also the episode where Ben and the other writers went all heart eyes for Olicity on twitter, I've got to think that something is happening with the two of them in that episode. 

Wait, at the time were they writing  or shooting 420? 

[Starfish35]

I think the tweet about her being seen a lot on set since BC died is misleading.  In a reply further down after he's asked if Madison plays her, he only mentions that yes, it's Madison in 4-19 but he doesn't know who it is in the final.  If BC was in other episodes, I think he would have brought them up too.  Maybe she's just around a lot in those two episodes.

Those two tweets are from two different people. Ken (pursuit23) is the one who said "there's been a black canary on set a lot since Katie left the show". Further down Canadagraphs replied and said "in 419 it is MM. Not sure who was in the outfit yesterday."

[thegirlsleuth]

Not to harsh the party that is going on in the social media thread, but Katie is at the wrap party in Vancouver. I had counted her out since she was in a different city during our discussion of the Black Canary sightings, but I guess she could be in play, even though I really, really, really don't want her to be.

Edited April 17, 2016 by thegirlsleuth

[Thundercatmary]

Not to harsh the party that is going on in the social media thread, but Katie is at the wrap party in Vancouver. I had counted her out since she was in a different city during out discussion of the Black Canary sightings, but I guess she could be in play, even though I really, really, really don't want her to be.

 

I think more than likely she just wanted to go to the wrap party but who knows, seems like she wasn't at the "pre-party" at Emily's house like the rest, but she could have just had other stuff going on who knows. 

 

I just don't want anymore masks on this show of any kind, I wasn't exactly happy about Curtis even though I adore Echo and think he does a good job, I just think the show was better when the team wasn't so big.

Edited April 17, 2016 by Thundercatmary