Spoiler Discussion Thread

[calliope1975]

I can't even watch a clip where Laurel isn't immediately straight up murdered by a member of the LOA. No. Just NO. I already side-eye Oliver being able to beat Nyssa.

 

Again, I have to believe the real Ra's and LOA are just hanging out somewhere chessboarding all of this and having a good chuckle. 

[chaos is welcome]

Back to Arrow 3x18, how's Laurel fighting against LoA and not dying? Please...

Glad we had confirmation that Felicity shares at least a scene with non-Ray characters. I'm not really looking forward to this episode, blah.

This was my only takeaway from that promo as well, other than rags blah ness.

Puh lease

Maybe oliver borrows Malcolm's garb/loa garb just bc he can't be the arrow? Maybe he is not yet Ras ollie Ghul? These promos don't excite me, they just make me really, really tired.

[wonderwall]

I know this is a small gripe, but does anyone else have a problem with how KC walks when she's about to fight someone? It's too stiff and annoying... *sigh* I miss Caity Lotz. Her movements were more fluid

[tv echo]

Re the Flash sizzle reel - Ray seems out of place even on The Flash now.  Those scenes of upcoming Flash episodes seem pretty dark... and then you have cheery Ray in his Atom suit waving his hand and going 'hey'.

 

Honestly, I have very little enthusiasm for watching tonight's Arrow episode or next week's Arrow episode.  I just don't like the Ray character - and I'd feel this way even if he never kissed or slept with Felicity.  I even have little desire to watch the Flash cross-over episode.

 

If the EPs are really going the 'star-crossed' route with Oliver and Felicity, then I could see them keeping Ray and Felicity together going into season 4.  Oliver finally realizes that he can have a personal life, but Felicity is not free.  So Oliver moves on and gets involved with a new female character introduced in the first half of season 4 (or even gets re-involved with Laurel because they've been spending so much time together).  Felicity then  realizes she's still in love with Oliver and breaks up with Ray by mid-season break.  But by then, Oliver is no longer free.  Etc.

 

Question: MG had said that the Ra's job is for life (until you die).  Therefore, Oliver can't become the new Ra's until the current Ra's dies.  So do you think the current Ra's plans to kill himself, or do you think he expects Oliver to remain on Nanda Parbat as Heir-In-Training until Ra's dies naturally?

Edited April 1, 2015 by tv echo

[apinknightmare]

I think Ra's is playing Oliver (to what end I don't know). Seems like there was a reason why they showed the LP healing his cut really quickly in the same ep where Ra's said it was losing its effectiveness.

Edited April 1, 2015 by apinknightmare

[steeledwithakiss]

I think Ra's wants him close until he dies of natural causes (or fighting) and train him, because he can't just hand him over the LOA when Oliver doesn't know anything about how they work/their traditions. Sure it would have been easier to just let his daughter be the heir (how is she going to introduce herself now "Nyssa former heir to the demon"?), but maybe if it works as the Pirate Roberts in Princess Bride the Demon's head is supposed to be that myth and changing sex would definitely tick off everyone else he's not the same person.

 

Or Ra's is just a misogynistic ass.

Edited April 1, 2015 by steeledwithakiss

[SonofaBiscuit]

Regarding Ray crossing over to The Flash...I know it's been mentioned that audience reception to his character on The Flash will let the EPs know if there is really a problem with Ray, or if it's just Olicity shippers who hate him.  Thing is, it's not like The Flash audience is going to get the whole story because I doubt that his stalkery, busting into employee's apartments, phone-pinging, dress-purchasing, ten million dollar jewel loaning, trying to take the hero down, lying behavior is going to be on display in the ten minutes that he's on screen over there.  So yeah, the audience will probably think he's just fine.

[Morrigan2575]

I know this is a small gripe, but does anyone else have a problem with how KC walks when she's about to fight someone? It's too stiff and annoying... *sigh* I miss Caity Lotz. Her movements were more fluid

I was joking about that on another site, yeah really bad.

[statsgirl]

I just saw the clip and honestly, I can't take the stupid any more.  Why would Ra's force someone who doesn't want the job to be his heir? If Oliver kills Ra's, how exactly are the LoA going to force him to take the role?

 

Why isn't Laurel dead yet?  She's only been training with Nyssa for 2 weeks.  Do something worthwhile, Ra's, and convince Laurel to go back to being a lawyer.

 

That LL she just gets knocked down and keeps getting right back up (barf). I swear the amount of times I've seen that cited to describe her rise to becoming BC, it

They need to merchandise a LL/Black Canary BoBo doll.  (Does anyone remember the blow-up clowns you could knock down and they'd pop back up?  Just me then.)

 

"Clearly I chose well selecting you as my heir."  Didn't they just tell us about this prophecy that says that the man who doesn't perish at the blade of Ra's al Ghul becomes Ra's al Ghul?  Ra's didn't choose Oliver...Oliver is next in line only because he survived, right?  They do this all of the time, it seriously bugs!

I'm beginning to think that being in the LoA makes the men cray-cray.  Nyssa and Sara had a grasp of reality but Ra's and Malcolm are far gone, and unless Maseo's playing a long game, he's not 100% either.

 

I could get behind her trying to get away from what's happening in SC but Barry, well and everyone on TF, would ask her about Oliver, I mean it's on the news. So I'll be waiting for 1x18, but if no one makes a comment about Oliver being in jail or running from the law, I'll assume it was supposed to be before Public enemy. And if R/F break up in 3x18 (hey a girl can dream right), we'll definitely know the time line was all screwed up.

I'm secretly hoping that they do break up tonight.

 

Felicity didn't know the suit was working in 317, so it has to be after 317 and hopefully before 318 because it makes no sense for her to abandon Team Arrow for Ray's suit

 

Regarding Ray crossing over to The Flash...I know it's been mentioned that audience reception to his character on The Flash will let the EPs know if there is really a problem with Ray, or if it's just Olicity shippers who hate him.  Thing is, it's not like The Flash audience is going to get the whole story because I doubt that his stalkery, busting into employee's apartments, phone-pinging, dress-purchasing, ten million dollar jewel loaning, trying to take the hero down, lying behavior is going to be on display in the ten minutes that he's on screen over there.  So yeah, the audience will probably think he's just fine.

True, but at least they'll get a chance to see if his character fits in or if they have to re-tool him to have a different personality.  The writers would truly have to be delusional to think that the only problem with Ray is the Olicity shippers.

.

[catrox14]

I'm just going to call Laurel 'Weeble Canary'

I know this is a small gripe, but does anyone else have a problem with how KC walks when she's about to fight someone? It's too stiff and annoying... *sigh* I miss Caity Lotz. Her movements were more fluid

She's trying too hard to walk like a badass and it is obvious and forced.

[wonderwall]

People have been saying that she's been training for two weeks, hasn't she been only training for like a week and a day? Because episode 17 and 18 happen pretty much in the same day?

[statsgirl]

It's confusing. If you put 118 after 318, then she's been training a week and a day. If you squeeze 118 into 317, then it's two weeks. 

I guess we'll find out tonight.

Edited April 1, 2015 by statsgirl

[looptab]

Maseo's face had me like 

[Sakura12]

I know this is a small gripe, but does anyone else have a problem with how KC walks when she's about to fight someone? It's too stiff and annoying... *sigh* I miss Caity Lotz. Her movements were more fluid

 

When you look like this, it's probably not hard walk like a super hero.

 

[AyChihuahua]

Caity Lotz is not only in great shape, she's extremely naturally athletic. It's almost kind of unfair to compare them, because at least some of it is genetic. But it does seem like KC could be doing SOMETHING to look more believable as an action here.

[Velocity23]

And wasnt her hand in a bandage type thingy. Sorry i zone out during her scenes.

[Tallis]

I just saw the clip and honestly, I can't take the stupid any more.  Why would Ra's force someone who doesn't want the job to be his heir? If Oliver kills Ra's, how exactly are the LoA going to force him to take the role?

Maybe once you get dunked in the LP you have to keep getting dunked on a regular basis or else you die/go mad/other horrible fate. If the only way you can do that is by becoming Ra's then that's definitely incentivising.

[statsgirl]

But Oliver hasn't been dunked in the LP yet, he was saved by Tatsu's magic penicillin herbs.  Do you mean they would knock him out and then dunk him?

 

They're also leaving out the possibility of Oliver committing suicide rather than being forced to be Ra's. I don't know how Oliver feels but that would be an option for me.

Edited April 1, 2015 by statsgirl

[Tallis]

But Oliver hasn't been dunked in the LP yet, he was saved by Tatsu's magic penicillin herbs.  Do you mean they would knock him out and then dunk him?

 

They're also leaving out the possibility of Oliver committing suicide rather than being forced to be Ra's. I don't know how Oliver feels but that would be an option for me.

Something like that, yeah. They could also LP someone close to Oliver for even better motivation - he couldn't off himself if Thea/Felicity/Dig were the one(s) needing regular immersion.

[nksarmi]

People have been saying that she's been training for two weeks, hasn't she been only training for like a week and a day? Because episode 17 and 18 happen pretty much in the same day?

I think right now we can call it an undetermined amount of time, but I believe if things had aired properly - it would have been at least 2 weeks (317 flowing directly into 318 is just so odd since we know Felicity and Ray go to CC on Flash).  But we have no reason to believe that only one week passed between the end of 316 and the wedding (other than the show usually runs in real time).  As far as I can recall, there was nothing in 316 indicating that Diggle's wedding was next week or anything like that.  So I think we can assume anywhere from one week to several at this point. 

 

Oh and as far as star crossed lovers are concerned - once they deal with this Ras / Oliver joining the LoA stuff and whatever else MG is throwing into the next couple of "game-changing" episodes (really hope they don't publically out Oliver as the Arrow as I really think that will take the show in a direction I don't want to watch.....) - they always have Oliver's unknown baby momma and child to come back to. 

Edited April 1, 2015 by nksarmi

[statsgirl]

"If your daughter had never met my daughter, she would have starved to death on the shores of Lian Yu."

 

Poor Quentin, more secrets.  But that's not really correct since there was enough food on Lian Yu to keep a  number of people alive.

 

The more I see of Ra's, the more I dislike him, And not in a "I love to hate him" kind of way.

[apinknightmare]

So, once Quentin finds out that Oliver is the Arrow is he gonna be further pissed because no one ever told him Sara was on Lian Yu? Not that that would make more sense, but...

[BkWurm1]

So Quentin is going to find out that Oliver lied to him about even more about Sara. 

Different topic, anyone else on edge wondering what kind of disinformation they might try to leak today since it's April Fools? 

[Sakura12]

Sara made it back to Lian Yu after being thrown off the Amazo? I figured she was floating around on a piece of debris again. I still can't believe Oliver and Sara never told their families they were on the island together. 

[quarks]

I  But we have no reason to believe that only one week passed between the end of 316 and the wedding (other than the show usually runs in real time).  As far as I can recall, there was nothing in 316 indicating that Diggle's wedding was next week or anything like that.  So I think we can assume anywhere from one week to several at this point. 

 

Actually, we do know that it was one week - Oliver and Ray mentioned that they'd gone months without seeing each other, only to then run into each other twice in one week.

 

It's not clear how many days passed in "Suicidal Tendencies," but even if we say seven, that means that Laurel has been training with Nyssa for two weeks. Prior to that, she apparently trained with Ted Grant for a few months, and at some point between Oliver and Sara going off to the island and Oliver's public return to Starling City five years later, she took some self defense courses (stated in script in season one.)

 

Meanwhile, we also know, in script, from Sara, Oliver, Maseo and Nyssa, that the assassins in the League of Assassins make highly trained U.S. Special Forces soldiers look like nothing.  We also saw that Laurel was completely unable to handle Malcolm, who got that training, just a few episodes ago, or the LoA members who attacked at that point, and that the League of Assassins was able to stand against superpowered Mirakiru soldiers last season. I think viewer skepticism that Laurel can now stand up against any LoA members is justified in script.

[lemotomato]

So Quentin is going to find out that Oliver lied to him about even more about Sara.

I never got the impression that Oliver and Quentin ever spent time talking at all, much less about Sara. So if this is another reason for his vendetta, it makes even less sense than everything else. What happened to Sara should have been up to her to share with her dad, not Oliver.

[apinknightmare]

Bleh, that sneak peek with Mama Smoak.

[Soulfire]

Are they really recycling the "a man Felicity cares about almost dies" trope for Ray now, or did I misunderstand that sneak peek completely?

 

If so, ugh.

[chaos is welcome]

Sara made it back to Lian Yu after being thrown off the Amazo? I figured she was floating around on a piece of debris again. I still can't believe Oliver and Sara never told their families they were on the island together.

And doesnt that sort of go against what we know ab sara/nyssa's mtg? Wasn't there a line in httd about sara being barely alive in a gutter or something when Nyssa found her?

[BkWurm1]

The sneak peak didn't come up for me. It was just the article. 

Edited April 1, 2015 by BkWurm1

[statsgirl]

I guess we know where Mama Smoak comes in on Felicity's love life.    Blech at Felicity still crying this season and especially over Ray.

 

Ray can't be that badly hurt if he conscious and can have visitors.

 

 

Are they really recycling the "a man Felicity cares about almost dies" trope for Ray now, or did I misunderstand that sneak peek completely?

They are recycling everything of Oliver for Ray.

 

Meanwhile, we also know, in script, from Sara, Oliver, Maseo and Nyssa, that the assassins in the League of Assassins make highly trained U.S. Special Forces soldiers look like nothing. 

True, in script.  But as one review of the last episode said (I think it was Eric K.), the Suicide Squad makes the LoA look like a bunch of LARPers.

Edited April 1, 2015 by statsgirl

[nksarmi]

Ok seriously though - Quentin never asked Oliver or Sara how she survived the boat wreck or why Oliver said/thought she was dead?  Oliver never said, well yes she did live, but she went through one hell of an ordeal and when we thought we were going to die - she asked just to tell you guys she died when the boat sank so you never knew she suffered.   Since I thought she died - I honored her last request.  I mean am I really supposed to believe this conversation did not take place off screen?  Do these people talk about anything that matters, at all, ever?

[chaos is welcome]

That sneak peep was AWEFUL.

[apinknightmare]

Ray can't be that badly hurt if he conscious and can have visitors.

Excuse you, the doctors "aren't saying anything good"!

I liked that MS was a tad superficial and a little flaky in TSOoFS but the "most handsome man ever even in a hospital bed" or whatever she said was too much. I was glad she made that comment about Felicity finally having a BF, because I for real thought she was going to say something like, "at least he's rich!"

Edited April 1, 2015 by apinknightmare

[BkWurm1]

guess we know where Mama Smoak comes in on Felicity's love life.    Blech at Felicity still crying this season and especially over Ray.

 

Got the clip to play.  Actually I'm relieved that Donna is in favor of Ray at the start, that leaves time for her to come to a different more supportive viewpoint when she knows more.

 

Of course she was going to gush over him!  I loved the "at least you have a boyfriend" line, lol. Sure, so what if he's dying or something. 

 

As for Felicity crying, I wonder if Ray got shot with some kind of poison that was meant for Felicity, a kind of incentive for Oliver to surrender to Ra's and they would hand over the antidote kind of thing.  In that case, she could be crying cause she feels guilty. 

Edited April 1, 2015 by BkWurm1

[GirlvsTV]

Damn it. There goes my hope Ray would be mostly unconscious/not speaking for this episode. I am so torn on whether to bother watching tonight or not.

[tv echo]

... H.I.V.E. is going to be a big part of next season's big baddie...

So now I'm back to thinking that Felicity's father is going to be connected to HIVE.

Edited April 1, 2015 by tv echo

[statsgirl]

He might be connected to HIVE or they might leave that just for Diggle's story and have him be a supervillain somewhere else.

 

As for Felicity crying, I wonder if Ray got shot with some kind of poison that was meant for Felicity, a kind of incentive for Oliver to surrender to Ra's and they would hand over the antidote kind of thing.  In that case, she could be crying cause she feels guilty. 

 

I think she would feel guilty anyway because he presumably got shot trying to save her from Maseo's arrow.  The idea of an antidote would at least make sense rather than killing Felicity off entirely but I don't trust the IQ of this Ra's.

 

Charlotte Ross' interviews do sound like she helps Felicity figure out what's real for her so there's hope for that.

 

When do doctors ever have anything good to say?  Much of the time they're too afraid of being sued.

[wonderwall]

So now I'm back to thinking that Felicity's father is going to be connected to HIVE.

What makes you say so?

 

Also that line "at least you have a boyfriend" -- I can SO relate to that :p

[tv echo]

Maybe it's more of a hope that Felicity's father is connected to HIVE so that she has a long-running storyline that's not being a hero prop.

 

Some possibilities are that her father is a normal guy who shows up in one episode, a one-shot baddie or hero, or someone connected to the season 4 big bad (HIVE).

Edited April 1, 2015 by tv echo

[Carrie Ann]

I think they are actually going to make Felicity cry in every episode this season, no joke. Other than The Magician which doesn't count, have there been any without at least the wavery voice? UGH I am so glad I'm not watching this live tonight. I am counting on you guys to spoil it for me so I can mentally prepare.

[Password]

Tbh I have no connection to Ray emotionally so whenever Felicity shows any emotion about him I tune out and wonder "why does she care?"

Terrible I know, but that's just how I feel.

[Morrigan2575]

Got the clip to play.  Actually I'm relieved that Donna is in favor of Ray at the start, that leaves time for her to come to a different more supportive viewpoint when she knows more.

 

I have to agree, not to get overly optimistic but it makes sense, these clips are usually within the first 5 minutes of the show.  If Donna was saying this at the end there's issues but my guess is the point will have Donna all happy about Raylicity in the beginning and then telling Felicity by the end to follow her heart even if it's the more difficult path.

 

BTW - I had a though about one of EBR's interviews from PaleyFest when she talked about Olicity vs Raylicity.  She mentioned that she hopes Felicity will chose to be on her own for awhile instead of in a relationship.  Knowing EBR and and how she interviews, I wouldn't be surprised if that came right out of a scene she filmed.  

[Genki]

I think right now we can call it an undetermined amount of time, but I believe if things had aired properly - it would have been at least 2 weeks (317 flowing directly into 318 is just so odd since we know Felicity and Ray go to CC on Flash).  But we have no reason to believe that only one week passed between the end of 316 and the wedding (other than the show usually runs in real time).  As far as I can recall, there was nothing in 316 indicating that Diggle's wedding was next week or anything like that.  So I think we can assume anywhere from one week to several at this point. 

 

Actually I always thought that 3.17 is the day after the end of 3.16, because Ra's kills the criminals and then the alert comes on everyone's phone about the Arrow killing again the next day.

 

Unless it took the SCP a week to find the crime scene.

 

I dunno...looks like you don't need actual time travel to screw up the timeline.

 

I agree with those who think it is OK for Donna to be pro-boyfriend & pro-Ray upon arrival. Based her interactions with him, he gave her a watch and Felicity time-off to spend with her. However I wonder if Felicity and Donna are talking about the same thing. Donna about Ray Felicity about all that is going on which is a lot more than Ray in hospital. I do feel cheated that Donna and Oliver won't interact again, but we get more Donna/Ray. Hopefully without even seeing Oliver, Donna will realise that there is more going on with Felicity.

[Sakura12]

And doesnt that sort of go against what we know ab sara/nyssa's mtg? Wasn't there a line in httd about sara being barely alive in a gutter or something when Nyssa found her?

 

From what I recall, Nyssa said when she found Sara she was nearly dead. They didn't say where. I guess making it back to Lian Yu and being found by Nyssa makes sense. I guess I can go with she was injured by the explosion after nearly drowning and was too weak to do anything. 

[SonofaBiscuit]

More Felicity crying?  Sigh.  Why?!

[apinknightmare]

Tbh I have no connection to Ray emotionally so whenever Felicity shows any emotion about him I tune out and wonder "why does she care?"

Terrible I know, but that's just how I feel.

Nah, it's not terrible. You're not invested in him, and honestly, why would you be? Up till now he's succeeded at everything he's tried and he's the one who got an apology when he acted like an asshat to Felicity. He showed himself to be a hypocrite. He's had no hardships that we've seen onscreen, so there's not much to invest in to care about him.

[wonderwall]

See, logically I get why Felicity would be crying. She almost got killed and her boyfriend whom apparently she cares for (though it makes no sense whatsoever to me) got (apparently) extremely injured whilst trying to save her.

 

So yeah. Logically it makes sense. But I just don't get it. Ray isn't worth crying over and I can't connect to Felicity in that sense. 

[apinknightmare]

She's been through some stuff and I don't begrudge her her feelings and I don't expect her to be up all the time, but I'm really tired of the crying. Every. Single. Episode.

And we'll have more crying in 3x19 and 3x20 probably.

Give this girl a nice long vacation, please.

[AyChihuahua]

"See, logically I get why Felicity would be crying. She almost got killed and her boyfriend whom apparently she cares for (though it makes no sense whatsoever to me) got (apparently) extremely injured whilst trying to save her."

She has cried or near-cried SO MANY TIMES this season. I only immediately remember her crying once ("two things"), and near-crying one other time (after the earthquake) for all of the first two seasons. She really does cry or nearly cry almost every single episode this season. She's becoming so unbearable, and I don't understand why they're doing this to her, at all.