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Spoiler Discussion Thread


Morrigan2575
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This probably belongs to the bitterness thread, but you're right - all new and returning characters will probably now prop Laurel as BC.

Let's see who we have:

- Nyssa. "I was wrong. You are worthy of Sara's memory."

- Helena. "I was wrong. You have light inside of you!"

- Maseo. "So you are the warrior who kept the city safe while Oliver was gone? You are a woman of great courage and skill."

- Tatsu. "I will gladly tech you how to fight with swords!"

- Malcolm. "Teach me how to fight, o brilliant one! Also, i wish Tommy was alive so that I could give my blessings to your holy union!"

- Ra's. "Come and join my League and be my bride!"

 

Guggenheim, you can use my prompts if you run out of ideas. I know they're right up your alley.

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Lol. As if I needed any more evidence of this show's Waller's incompetence. Seriously, Merlyn, a mass-murdering psychopath that has been gallivanting all over the world, is able to infiltrate A.R.G.U.S.' maximum detention island prison to release Deathstroke, one of their highest security risk inmates, so that Merlyn can use him as a live training dummy for Thea and Oliver, and Waller does nothing about that? Logic fail #547.

Hey, Malcolm was able to infiltrate the LOA's secret sacred dueling site and retrieve the bloody sword and find out what happened to Oliver, even though the LOA has been scouring the globe for him.

 

I like it, especially Laurel going off to Nanda Parbat, but what doesn't make sense to me is why she would.  She's there to "save" Starling City so to go off to Nanda Parbat for months would leave the city defenseless without her.  (I don't think she cares about her day job any more so I'm not going to bring that in to the argument.)

What makes even less sense is why Ra's would allow any LOA member, even Nyssa, to train Laurel.  What does he or the LOA get out of it?  (Malcolm trained Thea but he was rogue.)  If Laurel goes off to Nanda Parbat to train, it'll take place over next summer's hiatus so she'll return fully trained in a few short months.

 

Gotta do a BoP ep again with the real Black Canary! 

The EPs are still planting seeds for a possible future BOP spin-off show.

 

I guess I can believe Thea fighting Slade for a short while - she did nothing but train with Malcolm during last summer's hiatus.  It's not like she had to get a job since she was living off her bio dad.  And it's not like she has a full-time job like Laurel the lawyer.  But Slade still has years' more fighting experience than Thea, plus greater physical strength and stamina - so I don't think Thea could beat him in a fight.

Edited by tv echo
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The EPs are still planting seeds for a possible future BOP spin-off show.

You know what?

Let them spin this off. Let the New and 'Improved' BC and Helena leave Starling City and go around the globe taking names and kicking asses. Let them guest star on Arrow once a season during sweeps. I have some savings, who should I send them to to make it happen?

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Here's my wild and hopeful speculation for 3x18 (which won't happen, but half-joking here)...

 

Felicity is injured in the head and wakes up in the hospital with short-term amnesia.  She doesn't remember anything that happened after "Unthinkable" (2x23).  So she doesn't remember Oliver asking her out on a date and then rejecting her, Sara dying, Oliver almost dying and then teaming up with Malcolm, Laurel becoming the BC, or anything about Ray Palmer at all. 

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Haha. I mean, I'm sure he meant "laying the groundwork" or something, but still.

 

Urban Dictionary includes the following definition as well.

 

LAYING PIPE:

A term used in TV writing. It's things that you wouldn't actually say in life, but they say it on TV to help you understand what's happening in the story. Example: A character saying, "You're my sister and I love you...", so that we understand that she is the character's sister is laying pipe.

 

Could MG have meant his remark that way?

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More MG spoilers at http://marcguggenheim.tumblr.com/

-- Asked if there will be more Roy backstory, flashbacks or development, MG says: "Big stuff coming for Roy, but it’s forward looking, not delving into his past."

Okay.. This is interesting, based on the pictures and all... I may have a theory regarding the episode title. I actually signed to my twitter account and posted on MG twitter(cause it's harder for him to ignore it there than on Facebook) we'll see if I'm right. I have to admit it is a fun little game, i hate mysteries, and this is a nice one to try and crack.

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Okay.. This is interesting, based on the pictures and all... I may have a theory regarding the episode title. I actually signed to my twitter account and posted on MG twitter(cause it's harder for him to ignore it there than on Facebook) we'll see if I'm right. I have to admit it is a fun little game, i hate mysteries, and this is a nice one to try and crack.

What's your guess?

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Here's my wild and hopeful speculation for 3x18 (which won't happen, but half-joking here)...

 

Felicity is injured in the head and wakes up in the hospital with short-term amnesia.  She doesn't remember anything that happened after "Unthinkable" (2x23).  So she doesn't remember Oliver asking her out on a date and then rejecting her, Sara dying, Oliver almost dying and then teaming up with Malcolm, Laurel becoming the BC, or anything about Ray Palmer at all.

I'd take it! Especially the Forgetting Ray part and it could give Oliver a chance to redo things with Felicity lol but this is MG

I've noticed that for all the episode titles he's denied he's never addressed Public Enemies...makes me wonder if that is the correct title after all

Maybe it is. If the episode is what was speculated by someone on here it would be possibly be good. Except for the Oliver being in a cell while Felicity is hurt in the Hospital so creepy Ray can be there for her

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I've noticed that for all the episode titles he's denied he's never addressed Public Enemies...makes me wonder if that is the correct title after all

 

From what we know about the episode, with Oliver presumably in jail (from the looks of it), and Roy being arrested, I would say that is very likely the title. 

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Going back to Huntress for a moment, the only real problem I had with her previous appearances came from Oliver, when he got on her for killing people during or after fight scenes where HE was killing people. Hypocrisy is a pet peeve of mine.

 

I get the feeling, based on nothing really, that Ra's will let anybody train with the League that he or someone else sponsors. Nyssa, presumably, was the one who brought Sara to him, and now apparently Malcolm as well. Let them train. The majority of people probably don't survive the training, and if they do they may actually be worthy of joining. The way he talked about Sara, how she was never really one of them, may have been either because he had a sense she was never a true believer or else he just didn't like his daughter's girlfriend.

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I think it's more that Sara was never a true believer. After almost drowning in her second shipwreck, Sara was probably like fuck it and shut herself off from the world and just did whatever Nyssa and League told her to do. But she never actually believed in their cause. 

 

However with all the talk of Oliver or Laurel maybe joining the League doesn't that take away the point of the League? You can't just join, then leave whenever you want too. They are not a gym that just trains people for the hell of it. If you join, you kill for them, then die as one of them. Even Sara, whom Ra's didn't like. He realized she was a part of the league and should be avenged as one of them (or Nyssa was on his case about it and changed his mind). Either way you can't just be part of it to get trained then go do whatever you want. They said he knew Malcolm was a mistake why would he do that again? 

Edited by Sakura12
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I've noticed that for all the episode titles he's denied he's never addressed Public Enemies...makes me wonder if that is the correct title after all

 

Yeah, I have three Tumblrs (don't ask), and each time he did a Q&A without addressing it, I resent the guess. Could be that he didn't read any of them, but I can't be the only one who's sent it, so I think that's what it is too.

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I think it's more that Sara was never a true believer. After almost drowning in her second shipwreck, Sara was probably like fuck it and shut herself off from the world and just did whatever Nyssa and League told her to do. But she never actually believed in their cause. 

 

However with all the talk of Oliver or Laurel maybe joining the League doesn't that take away the point of the League? You can't just join, then leave whenever you want too. They are not a gym that just trains people for the hell of it. If you join, you kill for them, then die as one of them. Even Sara, whom Ra's didn't like. He realized she was a part of the league and should be avenged as one of them (or Nyssa was on his case about it and changed his mind). Either way you can't just be part of it to get trained then go do whatever you want. They said he knew Malcolm was a mistake why would he do that again?

Why would he take Laurel? Because he never had a unicorn before. Also plot. Lots of plot.

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I get that Malcolm is rich and obviously well trained but how intimidating is the League really supposed to be if one guy can turn against them, wreck half a city, earning a blood threat, and successfully elude them for years, killing one of their own in the process?

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I don't think Oliver or Laurel are joining the League. I think Ra's is going to make an offer of tutelage or whatever to Oliver, appealing to him for some kind of reason, maybe to do with Thea. Maybe he hopes that he'll be able to compel Oliver to join or to get Oliver to do something for him. Since MG spoiled that Ra's is going to make Oliver long for the halcyon days of Slade Wilson terrorizing him, I'm guessing Oliver declines? 

 

As for Nyssa training Laurel, it's probably some kind of non-League-sanctioned pet project she embarks on, or maybe she has a falling out with her father and walks away for a bit (he'd never kill Nyssa for leaving), and she trains her then. Assuming Nyssa does become her trainer and not Oliver. The only reason I don't think it'd be Oliver at this point is because he must have bigger fish to fry. I think he's going to focus on defeating Ra's and let everyone else take care of the city for the most part. 

Edited by apinknightmare
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The League that they've showed on this show is the least threatening group of assassins I've ever seen. Sara took out a few easily and with just Oliver's help she killed the man trained Malcolm (which they seem to have forgotten). They are pretty useless. And Ra's has been an even bigger disappointment. It's another one of the Arrow writers tell not show storylines, until of course they need to rush in an illogical storyline to suddenly make Ra's the big bad. 

 

I'm surprised you aren't all getting whiplash watching this show. 

Edited by Sakura12
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I just had a horrible thought.  If Laurel is referred to as Black Canary in 3.14 I hope it is by a TV reporter or bystander of some kind.  I hope they are not putting those words in Felicity's mouth.

 

It doesn't really make sense for anyone to call her Black Canary, does it? Sara was the Canary, and Laurel has that precious light inside her that dirty, foul Sara didn't so... Black? Surely Laurel is Light Canary (or Canary Lite)?

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It doesn't really make sense for anyone to call her Black Canary, does it? Sara was the Canary, and Laurel has that precious light inside her that dirty, foul Sara didn't so... Black? Surely Laurel is Light Canary (or Canary Lite)?

No it doesn't which is why they are going to do it.  I hope this isn't the Felicity moment that breaks the internet.  Some will be raging others rejoicing. I think I'm going to cry just thinking about it.

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No it doesn't which is why they are going to do it.  I hope this isn't the Felicity moment that breaks the internet.  Some will be raging others rejoicing. I think I'm going to cry just thinking about it.

 

Same. Stupidly I'm hoping that moment will be about Felicity. LOL @ me. 

 

Someone on the team would have to call her Black Canary, or else it would be a HUGE coincidence, since the media was referring to Sara's Canary as "the woman in black," so no one even knew she had a name. If it is someone on the team, I hope it's a tongue-in-cheek mention that eventually sticks or something.

Edited by apinknightmare
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No it doesn't which is why they are going to do it.  I hope this isn't the Felicity moment that breaks the internet.  Some will be raging others rejoicing. I think I'm going to cry just thinking about it.

I won't like it but I'm not going rage cause yet again I'm not gonna dislike or hate Felicity for saying. More proof MG didn't get how mad some people will be. Again it's depressing seeing people dislike Felicity for being nice to a unlikable character who while she's been a Bitch hasn't committed mass murder

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I went back and checked the MG tumblr spoilers regarding 3x14, and here's what he said (in order from most recent to least recent):

 

-- Asked if there will be any Olicity scenes in 3x14, MG says: "Ish."
-- Asked if in 3x14 we'll see the scene that breaks the internet, MG says: "It might fracture it a touch."
-- Asked if the Olicity in 3x14 that will make us grin is one scene or the whole episode, MG says: "One scene."
-- Asked if anyone will call Laurel Black Canary this season or if she will be referred to as The Canary, MG says: "Someone will call her 'Black Canary' in 3x14."
-- Asked about Olicity in 314, MG says: "3x14 will put a smile on your face."
-- Asked if there are any Olicity scenes coming up that are gonna make us smile, MG says: "3x14.  Big grin."
-- Asked if the Felicity 'breaking the internet' scene in 3x14 will make us happy or just give us more angst, MG says: "It’ll make you grin so wide you’ll think your face is gonna break."
-- The Felicity scene in 3x14 will break the internet "in the best possible way."
-- Asked if we have anything to look forward to regarding Olicity in upcoming episodes (because we know that 3x12 will break our hearts), MG says: "I think you’ll like 3x14."
-- Asked if we're gonna see Tommy again sometime soon, MG says: "You'll see him in 3x14."
-- Asked why Felicity isn't mentioned in episode descriptions for 3x13 and 3x14, MG says: "I really don’t know.  She’s in both episodes.  There’s a scene with her in 3x14 that will break the internet."
-- Asked about his favorite line from 314, MG says: "Ooo.  Probably:  'That wouldn’t work even if you smeared grease paint on your face.'”
-- Asked to describe Oliver's reaction when he faces Slade in episode 3x14, MG says: "Horrified."
-- Asked if Felicity and Slade will interact in 3x14, MG says: "Unfortunately, no.  You’ll see why it’s not possible."
-- Asked when did Oliver realize that he is in love with Felicity, MG says: "I think that’s best left up to the fans to decide for themselves.  That said, I’m very curious to see what the fan response to 3x14 is…"

Edited by tv echo
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I went back and checked the MG tumblr spoilers regarding 3x14, and here's what he said (in order from most recent to least recent):

 

-- Asked if there will be any Olicity scenes in 3x14, MG says: "Ish."

-- Asked if in 3x14 we'll see the scene that breaks the internet, MG says: "It might fracture it a touch."

-- Asked if the Olicity in 3x14 that will make us grin is one scene or the whole episode, MG says: "One scene."

-- Asked if anyone will call Laurel Black Canary this season or if she will be referred to as The Canary, MG says: "Someone will call her 'Black Canary' in 3x14."

-- Asked about Olicity in 314, MG says: "3x14 will put a smile on your face."

-- Asked if there are any Olicity scenes coming up that are gonna make us smile, MG says: "3x14.  Big grin."

-- Asked if the Felicity 'breaking the internet' scene in 3x14 will make us happy or just give us more angst, MG says: "It’ll make you grin so wide you’ll think your face is gonna break."

-- The Felicity scene in 3x14 will break the internet "in the best possible way."

-- Asked if we have anything to look forward to regarding Olicity in upcoming episodes (because we know that 3x12 will break our hearts), MG says: "I think you’ll like 3x14."

-- Asked if we're gonna see Tommy again sometime soon, MG says: "You'll see him in 3x14."

-- Asked why Felicity isn't mentioned in episode descriptions for 3x13 and 3x14, MG says: "I really don’t know.  She’s in both episodes.  There’s a scene with her in 3x14 that will break the internet."

-- Asked about his favorite line from 314, MG says: "Ooo.  Probably:  'That wouldn’t work even if you smeared grease paint on your face.'”

-- Asked to describe Oliver's reaction when he faces Slade in episode 3x14, MG says: "Horrified."

-- Asked if Felicity and Slade will interact in 3x14, MG says: "Unfortunately, no.  You’ll see why it’s not possible."

-- Asked when did Oliver realize that he is in love with Felicity, MG says: "I think that’s best left up to the fans to decide for themselves.  That said, I’m very curious to see what the fan response to 3x14 is…"

MAYBE Felicity says she loves Oliver? Then again probably not but I can't think of a moment where it would break the internet and put a smile on our face. Her calling Laurel would NOT do that

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Well what Guggenheim thinks fans will like have been the complete opposite reaction of the fans. 

 

If he's hyping the episode up so much, I expect it to be a dud. 

Edited by Sakura12
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Well what Guggenheim thinks fans will like have been the complete opposite reaction of the fans. 

 

If he's hyping the episode up so much, I expect it to be a dud.

Don't I know it and he said this weeks ago if I remember correctly BEFORE he was STUNNED we saw that light comment as throwing Sara under the bus

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This next episode is the one where Oliver and Maseo come back to Starling, right? We already know he sees Tommy and Laurel together. Maybe he also stops by QC and sees Felicity? He wouldn't know who she is but the implication could be that he remembers the cute blond techie come his real return and that is the reason he picks this one random IT person to help him? Now whether you could consider that good or bad....

Edited by KirkB
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This next episode is the one where Oliver and Maseo come back to Starling, right? We already know he sees Tommy and Laurel together. Maybe he also stops by QC and sees Felicity? He wouldn't know who she is but the implication could be that he remembers the cute blond techie come his real return and that is the reason he picks this one random IT person to help him? Now whether you could consider that good or bad....

I wouldn't mind that scene cause it's not like he really knew who she was

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If Felicity called Laurel the Black Canary, I can see the internet breaking but much of it would be Felicity fans on how much they hate this season.

 

This probably belongs to the bitterness thread, but you're right - all new and returning characters will probably now prop Laurel as BC.

Let's see who we have:

- Nyssa. "I was wrong. You are worthy of Sara's memory."

- Helena. "I was wrong. You have light inside of you!"

- Maseo. "So you are the warrior who kept the city safe while Oliver was gone? You are a woman of great courage and skill."

- Tatsu. "I will gladly tech you how to fight with swords!"

- Malcolm. "Teach me how to fight, o brilliant one! Also, i wish Tommy was alive so that I could give my blessings to your holy union!"

- Ra's. "Come and join my League and be my bride!"

 

Love them, especially Ra's.  (Are you going to finish Feathers?)

 

The Tatsu one made me wonder if we could have Tatsu train Laurel. It would make more sense than Nyssa.

 

I could forgive Raylicity if they had a BoP spin-off that took Laurel off the show.

 

 

However with all the talk of Oliver or Laurel maybe joining the League doesn't that take away the point of the League? You can't just join, then leave whenever you want too. They are not a gym that just trains people for the hell of it. If you join, you kill for them, then die as one of them. Even Sara, whom Ra's didn't like. He realized she was a part of the league and should be avenged as one of them (or Nyssa was on his case about it and changed his mind). Either way you can't just be part of it to get trained then go do whatever you want. They said he knew Malcolm was a mistake why would he do that again? 

Maybe after Oliver defeats him, Ra's can open a gym like Wildcat's.  Ra's al Ghul's Gym -- all the sword and archery training you could ever want.

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I just think there is going to be a fun flashback with Felicity in 2010 SC and Oliver making the googly eyes at her without her awareness. MG doesn't even have to retcon that much. Oliver did say "I did my homework on both of you!" To Felicity in 209 about she and Dig - so he will covertly observe Dig being awesome in 314, as well. I know that the comics indicated that Walter told Oliver about Felicity but I think this is pretty easy retconning that he had already seen what she could do and was impressed and a little smitten. As for breaking the Internet...we shall see. People are so Olicity starved, it could happen.

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Love them, especially Ra's.  (Are you going to finish Feathers?)

 

:) I was so bitter about the episodes after the break I couldn't get myself down to write... Actually, I have most written down, but I need to edit.

 

Damn you, Guggenheim and your spirit-breaking plots!

 

- - -

 

An idea about someone calling Laurel BC:

Roy walks in, sees Laurel painting her nails before going out to fight: "Are you painting them black, Canary?" => there you have it.

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Maybe Quentin is in the same episode as Felicity and Ray and that then explains why there are CC cop cars in the following Arrow episode. They must be linked.

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Maybe Quentin is in the same episode as Felicity and Ray and that then explains why there are CC cop cars in the following Arrow episode. They must be linked.

 

The CC cop cars probably are linked, but I think the Flash crew is shooting the ep after the one where Felicity and Ray go to CC.

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Is Quentin going to yell at Dinah for not bothering to tell him their daughter died. I know it's again, but WTF, Dinah. Laurel's an selfish brat, what's your excuse? 

Edited by Sakura12
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I get more annoyed than excited over these constant crossovers. I shouldn't have to watch The Flash to see Arrow characters but maybe they'll be treated better over there.

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If Lance is going after the Arrow, he may go after the Team (except Laurel of course). Maybe Lance goes to CC to get Felicity.

 

Now that you mention the "except Laurel" bit, I'm wondering it everyone but her will be arrested and she'll have to use her awesome lawyering skills to get them off.

 

I get more annoyed than excited over these constant crossovers. I shouldn't have to watch The Flash to see Arrow characters but maybe they'll be treated better over there.

 

 

Honestly, they're going to end up majorly annoying The Flash viewers.  Chicago Fire and Chicago PD keep doing the crossover thing, and it pisses me off.  I've never seen how any of these episodes have ended because I refuse to watch Chicago PD.

Edited by SonofaBiscuit
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Now that you mention the "except Laurel" bit, I'm wondering it everyone but her will be arrested and she'll have to use her awesome lawyering skills to get them off.

Personally since she is on Team Arrow she should get arrested too if the rest of them are. Oh if only there was a way to have Oliver and Felicity in the same holding cell or interrogation room so they could Talk their problems out lol

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If Lance is going after the Arrow, he may go after the Team (except Laurel of course). Maybe Lance goes to CC to get Felicity.

the timing doesn't lineup. Flash is filming 119 rigjt now, episode after 318, Felicity should be back in SC in 318.

AFAIK

118 - Felicity/Ray in CC

318 - Mama Smoak, CC cops in Starling, etc. I wonder if Joe or someone else from Flash shows up in SC?

119 - Post 318, Lance in CC. No idea why.

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I don't think Oliver or Laurel are joining the League. I think Ra's is going to make an offer of tutelage or whatever to Oliver, appealing to him for some kind of reason, maybe to do with Thea. Maybe he hopes that he'll be able to compel Oliver to join or to get Oliver to do something for him. Since MG spoiled that Ra's is going to make Oliver long for the halcyon days of Slade Wilson terrorizing him, I'm guessing Oliver declines? 

I don't think Laurel is important enough to join the League, no matter how much I may want her to get some training off of my screen.

 

Ra's may make Oliver an offer but he won't accept.  What would be the point of Oliver joining, since his crusade is about saving Starling City.  He can't be a League assassin and still stick around SC.

 

 

I went back and checked the MG tumblr spoilers regarding 3x14, and here's what he said (in order from most recent to least recent):

-- Asked if there will be any Olicity scenes in 3x14, MG says: "Ish."

-- Asked if in 3x14 we'll see the scene that breaks the internet, MG says: "It might fracture it a touch."

[snip]

-- Asked about Olicity in 314, MG says: "3x14 will put a smile on your face."

-- Asked if there are any Olicity scenes coming up that are gonna make us smile, MG says: "3x14.  Big grin."

-- Asked if the Felicity 'breaking the internet' scene in 3x14 will make us happy or just give us more angst, MG says: "It’ll make you grin so wide you’ll think your face is gonna break."

-- The Felicity scene in 3x14 will break the internet "in the best possible way."

-- Asked when did Oliver realize that he is in love with Felicity, MG says: "I think that’s best left up to the fans to decide for themselves.  That said, I’m very curious to see what the fan response to 3x14 is…"

I admire your diligence, TV ECHO.

 

What strikes me about that those tweets is just how far MG has pulled back on promoting the Olicity scene, from "break the internet  in the best possible way"  down to " ish ".  Maybe he got a clue that people aren't reacting the way he expected.

Edited by statsgirl
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What strikes me about that those tweets is just how far MG has pulled back on promoting the Olicity scene, from "break the internet  in the best possible way"  down to " ish ".  Maybe he got a clue that people aren't reacting the way he expected.

 

To be fair, the Felicity scene that's going to break the internet might not be Olicity related, so that could be why his answer is different regarding the two. And I'm guessing the Olicity scenes in 3x14 are going to be Oliver talking about Felicity to Thea and/or Slade, so it'll be Olicity related, but not typical in that Oliver and Felicity won't actually be in the scene together. And then there's also the possibility that he realized he's terrible at gauging reaction.

Edited by apinknightmare
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To be fair, the Felicity scene that's going to break the internet might not be Olicity related, so that could be why his answer is different regarding the two. And I'm guessing the Olicity scenes in 3x14 are going to be Oliver talking about Felicity to Thea and/or Slade, so it'll be Olicity related, but not typical in that Oliver and Felicity won't actually be in the scene together. And then there's also the possibility that he realized he's terrible at gauging reaction.

I'm kinda terrified of the scene but Ray is not in the episode. I'm really hoping it's her and Oliver almost cross paths in a FB or something.

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I don't expect anything Olicity-related in the present day scenes. I think what MG's talking about will all be in the flashbacks. I think they'll either have a close encounter or work together indirectly, and yeah, maybe this is how Oliver knew to bring the laptop to her in 103. That's about as exciting as I think it's going to get.

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