Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Carrie Ann]

And I thought this storyline couldn't get any worse. The lying from the very beginning was on Laurel. And the FULL BURDEN of the consequences should stay with Laurel. No spreading the guilt. I know Felicity created that software thingie but this was after MONTHS of Laurel lying to her father. No, this should all be on Laurel. And no fast-tracking either. The writers want me to feel anything for this character, then for the first time in her life, they better make her own up to something she's done and accept the consequences.

 

I missed this convo earlier, so sorry to go back, but I agree and disagree with this. I agree that the full burden of the consequences and the guilt should have been on Laurel. This was her decision, and no one else seemed to agree with her.

 

But the fact is that the show made them all go along with it, for months, and then they made it worse, by making them all take an active part in the ruse. And since they did that, I want them all to pay. Otherwise, it tells me that the writers don't realize how disgustingly over the line that was. I wish it weren't the case, because I wish it had never happened. But because it did, he has every right to cut ties with them all.

 

But also, Laurel deserves to feel the full extent of the damage from her terrible decision. And if part of that is that she caused a rift between Quentin and four other people he knew and trusted, then she deserves to bear the weight of that too. And the team deserves to face some consequences for supporting Laurel, in one way or another. I doubt the show will play it that way, but I can choose to read it that way.

[apinknightmare]

Okay, so one of my friends on Twitter speculated that maybe the title of the episode is "Public Enemy." 

 

Perhaps Malcolm (or Ra's, possibly) somehow manages to drug/turn Roy and sends him out in the city as Arrow doing misdeeds in an effort to turn public opinion against him? Could be a Hannibal Bates thing (even though MG said we'd be more likely to see him on Flash), but why would he pose as Roy posing as Oliver? Unless it's to not only get the city to turn against Oliver, but to get Oliver to turn against Roy. 

[apinknightmare]

So, per CH's latest tweet (I posted it in the Spoilers section, to be safe), some dynamic-changing scenes are being shot tonight. Anyone know who's on set? Seems like it's just him and PB. Seems like most of the cast is still out of town?

Does Roy bite it and then go for a swim in the pit?

Edited February 11, 2015 by apinknightmare

[HighHopes]

So, per CH's latest tweet (I posted it in the Spoilers section, to be safe), some dynamic-changing scenes are being shot tonight. Anyone know who's on set? Seems like it's just him and PB. Seems like most of the cast is still out of town? 

Stephen Amell posted a photo on facebook earlier with Willa Holland and Katie Cassidy. I believe EBR and Brandon Routh are on set today? Or at least in Vancouver.

 

I'm wondering how they can be filming some dynamic changing scenes that will change the show forever without half of the cast there (two of which are the "leads" of the series). 

[apinknightmare]

Stephen Amell posted a photo on facebook earlier with Willa Holland and Katie Cassidy. I believe EBR and Brandon Routh are on set today? Or at least in Vancouver.

I'm wondering how they can be filming some dynamic changing scenes that will change the show forever without half of the cast there (two of which are the "leads" of the series).

Is he taking up the mantle of the Arrow temporarily or something so Oliver can train or do...whatever? If so, what was the Arrow vs Arrow pic about? Is Roy going dark? I don't understand any of this.

[calliope1975]

Hey TIIC! How about writing a good story instead of continuing to change the show forrreevveerrrrrrrr? If they keep changing the show, I'm pretty sure we're going to end up back in S1. 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if Roy's now Green Arrow because Oliver's joined the LOA. Or just because of reasons. If Oliver is fighting Roy, where'd Roy get the 2nd Arrow outfit? Same place Buckles got hers? Is there a Heroes R Us outlet in Starling?

[ban1o]

Wait so Stephen, Willa and Katie aren't in Vancouver? Where are they? 

[apinknightmare]

Wait so Stephen, Willa and Katie aren't in Vancouver? Where are they?

In LA.

Know who's also in LA? Colin Donnell.

/tin hat

[ban1o]

In LA.

Know who's also in LA? Colin Donnell.

/tin hat

Mmm on tumblr MG also said something about how this episode was a game changer right? Weird how half the cast isn't there though. 

[JenMD]

I thought 15 was the "game changer"?

[ban1o]

I thought 15 was the "game changer"?

lol to MG every episode is a game changer 

[statsgirl]

Apparently now both 15 and 18 are "game-changers".

 

They've got another 8 days of filming to do on it though. How far away form Vancouver is LA?  and do they get to keep their own frequent flyer points?

 

Is the thing the guard fears the most a Zombie attack?  He needs to cut down on his TV time.

 

There's nothing in the sneak peek or the spoilers I care about.

[ban1o]

This is a link to what he said about 3x18 

 

http://marcguggenheim.tumblr.com/post/110047294139/tell-us-something-about-3x18#notes 

 

"I’m writing it right now and can’t believe how insane it is.  Seriously, I know I’m prone to hyperbole, but I can’t imagine another TV show doing what we’re doing. "

[JenMD]

They keep changing the game and nobody's going to remember what they started playing.

 

No clue how Roy wearing the Arrow outfit fits into anything at this point.  I don't even think I want to know.

[SmallScreenDiva]

I missed this convo earlier, so sorry to go back, but I agree and disagree with this. I agree that the full burden of the consequences and the guilt should have been on Laurel. This was her decision, and no one else seemed to agree with her.

 

But the fact is that the show made them all go along with it, for months, and then they made it worse, by making them all take an active part in the ruse. And since they did that, I want them all to pay. Otherwise, it tells me that the writers don't realize how disgustingly over the line that was. I wish it weren't the case, because I wish it had never happened. But because it did, he has every right to cut ties with them all.

 

But also, Laurel deserves to feel the full extent of the damage from her terrible decision. And if part of that is that she caused a rift between Quentin and four other people he knew and trusted, then she deserves to bear the weight of that too. And the team deserves to face some consequences for supporting Laurel, in one way or another. I doubt the show will play it that way, but I can choose to read it that way.

 

I've calmed down since I wrote that post. Not a lot, just a little. Yes, the rest of them have to face the consequences of their actions, but I want those consequences to be mere slaps on the wrists compared to the hell that Quentin should bring down on his eldest daughter.

[Orion]

.If Oliver is fighting Roy, where'd Roy get the 2nd Arrow outfit? Same place Buckles got hers? Is there a Heroes R Us outlet in Starling?

It's in the same strip mall as Pantsuit Emporium, around the corner from the Secret Lair Cleaners, if you see the Overnight Cure Drug Treatment Center you've gone to far.

[chaos is welcome]

AWEFUL thought, wasn't baby mama supposed to return on one of the to shows this season. If the title is parenthood or some bullshit I will scream. Roy as arrow: Roy has gone rogue, Oliver has gone rogue, roy is providing a diversion/distraction to draw heat away from Oliver....

I remember last year in bop (back when we still expected things to make sense) that there was a swat officer who had it out for vigilantes, if they had follow through I would wonder if it had something to do with that...but nahhhhh, not clever.

[jay741982]

This is a link to what he said about 3x18 

 

http://marcguggenheim.tumblr.com/post/110047294139/tell-us-something-about-3x18#notes 

 

"I’m writing it right now and can’t believe how insane it is.  Seriously, I know I’m prone to hyperbole, but I can’t imagine another TV show doing what we’re doing. "

And there are at least 5 posts below that statement that says stuff like "I'm afraid" " I don't know whether to be afraid or Happy" etc etc

It wasn't smart at all for them to deceive Lance like they did. When he finds out about the Sara Ruse if he's angry enough he can arrest Roy, his stupid daughter and Felicity at the least. Maybe that's how they would show that he knows Oliver is the Arrow when he arrests him lol

[ban1o]

Wait so the guy in the Arrow suit is ROY. (sorry just went into spoilers) LOL I'm so confused lol. Wasn't Oliver fighting him before in another picture? Does Roy die and go in the lazarus pit and become crazy? But that would be a repeat of mirakuru probably 

Edited February 11, 2015 by ban1o

[wonderwall]

 But that would be a repeat of mirakuru probably 

I think we all know that the writers aren't afraid of reusing storylines. 

[statsgirl]

It's in the same strip mall as Pantsuit Emporium, around the corner from the Secret Lair Cleaners, if you see the Overnight Cure Drug Treatment Center you've gone to far.

It's right around the corner from the Greasepaint!  All Colors!  shop.

 

I've calmed down since I wrote that post. Not a lot, just a little. Yes, the rest of them have to face the consequences of their actions, but I want those consequences to be mere slaps on the wrists compared to the hell that Quentin should bring down on his eldest daughter.

I doubt that there will be any real consequences for Laurel, she has such a big heart and she was only trying to protect her father, and besides now she's out saving the city. Surely a little thing like lying to him for months can pass.

[jay741982]

Looks like CR is back getting ready to and has starting filming as Mama Smoak. Now tell Felicity Ray is lame Donna Lol

[looptab]

What if somehow Quentin blames the Arrow for Sara's death?

Or maybe something happens and he is forced to go after him and Roy volunteers to be unmasked because Q already knows he is involved.

Now I'm gettin antsy..I don't want a fall-out between Q and the team :(

[jay741982]

What if somehow Quentin blames the Arrow for Sara's death?

Or maybe something happens and he is forced to go after him and Roy volunteers to be unmasked because Q already knows he is involved.

Now I'm gettin antsy..I don't want a fall-out between Q and the team :(

Oliver is the only one who wasn't in on deceiving Lance with the voice modulator I'm gonna rage if Laurel gets forgiven and Team Arrow-Less doesnt. LAUREL should get the most blame

[quarks]

I've lost track of which episodes are game changers and which are just games, but I can readily believe that Central City cops have been called into Starling City by state or federal authorities who can't take any more of the general Starling City incompetence.  I can only imagine Amanda Waller twitching her thumbs and going, "See? SEE? I WANTED TO BOMB IT, but all of you said NO, and now those idiots let a terrorist take over a part of their city. AGAIN. Central City's got that speedy guy and that guy that bursts into flames. So Central City Cops, you go arrest everyone in Starling that has ever worn a costume or a uniform." 

[Belinea]

Could it be Oliver in the hospital? Maybe I am just so confused by all the spoilers but what is Oliver doing in this episode? Besides feeling overwhelmed? 

 

Quentin will blame them all. But Laurel will be forgiven quicker than the rest. That is my prediction. 

And I like 'Public Enemy' as a title even though I have to admit that IMO none of the titles other than 'Pit' would be too huge of a  spoiler.

 

And how is Roy wearing the hood any different from Diggle wearing the hood? If Oliver can't/won't wear it, the others will be able to do so and have in the past. It is not like that is such a dramatic change in the story. At least not to me. It would be different if Oliver gave it up permanently.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Belinea

[Ariah]

The possibility of the 318 title mentioned on tumblr made my heart sink:

 

Paralyzed.

 

No. Just no.

[SleepDeprived]

I think there might be something to apinknightmare's friend's guess that the 3x18 title is "Public Enemy." Because I know there's a DCAU movie (based on a comic run) titled "Public Enemies," which starred Superman and Batman against Lex Luthor. The plot of which is that Superman and Batman are on the run because of some nefarious reason that Luthor concocted.

 

I mean, we all know that Oliver has pretty much been written as kinda Batman-lite. And, now, Arrow will have a flying A.T.O.M. (their Iron Man knock-off as played by a former Superman). So, perhaps they're teaming up here to resolve whatever the outcome was due to the events in Central City. I'm thinking something happens in Central City that will lead to the CCPD vehicles and the Dept. of Corrections van to travel to Starling City. Perhaps, to transport a prisoner? Someone we know could be in that van and someone/the Arrow needs to deliberately get caught to try to get whoever out of police custody or, at least, to be able to have a chance to talk with them before they're carted off to custody? They can't have Oliver get caught so Roy poses as the Arrow in front of Quentin, some CCPD vehicles, and a Dept. of Corrections van.

 

Perhaps, whatever goes down in Central City, with Felicity's hacking nemesis, not only leads to Felicity getting injured but also placed under arrest, which is why she only interacts with Mama Smoak. Felicity could be under hospital arrest. Which could lead to Palmer and Oliver agreeing to team-up to find a way to get Felicity out.

 

Game changers: Felicity getting a rap sheet with Donna finding out, Roy getting "outed" as the Arrow (or an Arrow wannabe if the real Arrow shows up at the same time somewhere Roy is later on), Quentin starting to doubt Team Arrow and whatever the hell they're doing, Palmer and Oliver working together.

 

And, if they want to tie this all to Malcolm, maybe he's the one who sics the Bug-Eyed Bandit on Felicity to splinter Team Arrow as a back-up plan should the Oliver/Thea/Malcolm dysfunctional-and-dumb family team-up fail against Ra's and Oliver/Thea turn on Malcolm, instead. The camera/spy program on the foundry computer could have even been something that Bug-Eyed Bandit made for Malcolm to use which, if she's a good enough hacker to be Felicity's nemesis, could be why Felicity didn't detect her program in the foundry's system.

 

Another possibility of whoever is in the Dept. of Corrections van is Thea. Because Malcolm released the video of her killing the Black Canary on the roof and Quentin rages against his now-former friends/partners against crime. But, then, that wouldn't explain why CCPD is on the scene.

 

I dunno. I'm probably over-thinking this. This speculation doesn't even account for the Arrow vs. Arrow spoiler pic. I'm blaming my lack of sleep, which I should be doing right now. Heh.

[Password]

I like this a lot. Felicity getting a record, being under hospital arrest therefore only interacting with momma. Even Ray and Oliver being on the run.

Don't get me excited!!!!!!

...because this idea is so appealing to me, it won't happen.

[Pyramid]

How about "Pointless"? As in MG's Pointless Comedy Hour. Featuring Laurel Lance and Ray Palmer.

(Warning: May not contain comedy) (or drama) (or anything note worthy)

[Angel12d]

Maybe Felicity isn't the one who is hurt in 318. Maybe Ray is and she's at the hospital playing the dutiful prop, I mean girlfriend that she is. 

 

They say that 318 forever changes the dynamic of the show, well, IMO they've already done that this season and it sucks so please stop. 

[apinknightmare]

So, based on MG's latest Tumblr spree, Oliver and Mama Smoak don't interact, and Oliver won't have a reason to cry, so either he's out of town with the LoA when Felicity gets hurt, Felicity doesn't get hurt or isn't hurt that badly, Mama Smoak is in town with some kind of illness and needs a specialist or something, or MG's just trolling.

And he confirmed the episode title isn't "Post Mortem." He said he'd confirm if someone guessed, but no one's guessed it yet.

[Chiny11]

Hmmm... Do you think we are getting a new Arrow - Roy?

Is the "first" arrow dead... Again? Na.... They won't kill him twice would they? Would they?

ETA: Is the title "Post Arrow"?

Edited February 11, 2015 by Chiny11

[Velocity23]

But who is gonna watch the show with Roy as Arrow? And especially if he gets captured as easily.

[apinknightmare]

Hmmm... Do you think we are getting a new Arrow - Roy?

Is the "first" arrow dead... Again? Na.... They won't kill him twice would they? Would they?

Last night I was wondering if the Arrow was going to become more of a rotating cast of people rather than just one person, given how they seem intent on taking Oliver's place in the show away from him, but if that was the case then why would there be a scene where Oliver's fighting someone dressed like him that's not a vertigo-induced hallucination?

So, given yesterday's pics of Roy in the suit, if that is Roy, did he turn? Is he working for Ra's or Malcolm to try to bring Oliver down and turn public opinion against Oliver?

MG said a while back that Ra's was going to make Oliver wish for the simpler, kinder days when Slade was harassing him. I wonder at what point that starts? Is it something that leads him to join the League or at least accept Ra's as a "mentor," or does he do that first, decide that isn't his bag, then leave and Ra's comes after him full-force?

Edited February 11, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Chiny11]

Last night I was wondering if the Arrow was going to become more of a rotating cast of people rather than just one person, given how they seem intent on taking Oliver's place in the show away from him, but if that was the case then why would there be a scene where Oliver's fighting someone dressed like him that's not a vertigo-induced hallucination?

So, given yesterday's pics of Roy in the suit, if that is Roy, did he turn? Is he working for Ra's or Malcolm to try to bring Oliver down and turn public opinion against Oliver?

MG said a while back that Ra's was going to make Oliver wish for the simpler, kinder days when Slade was harassing him. I wonder at what point that starts? Is it something that leads him to join the League or at least accept Ra's as a "mentor," or does he do that first, decide that isn't his bag, then leave and Ra's comes after him full-force?

Wow... "rotating Arrows". You may have something there. Since the TPTB love doing things that pisses off a majority of the fanbase... and this would make fans mad.

[Angel12d]

Rotating cast? No thanks. I'm here for Oliver's story. Everyone else can GTFO. I understand shaking things up so they don't get stale but we're only in s3. 

 

I think the Roy dressed as Arrow thing is a decoy but to what end I have no idea. It could be that Oliver and the Arrow needs to be seen in two places at once and that's when Roy is captured. I do think this relates to Quentin finding out everyone has lied to him and there being 'hell to pay' or whatever one of the spoilers said.

 

I'm now pretty doubtful that Felicity is hurt at all. I think the hospital scenes are throwing everyone off. Maybe Mama Smoak comes to town for another reason and is injured in the process? That seems more likely. 

[apinknightmare]

Rotating cast? No thanks. I'm here for Oliver's story. Everyone else can GTFO. I understand shaking things up so they don't get stale but we're only in s3.

I think the Roy dressed as Arrow thing is a decoy but to what end I have no idea. It could be that Oliver and the Arrow needs to be seen in two places at once and that's when Roy is captured. I do think this relates to Quentin finding out everyone has lied to him and there being 'hell to pay' or whatever one of the spoilers said.

I'm now pretty doubtful that Felicity is hurt at all. I think the hospital scenes are throwing everyone off. Maybe Mama Smoak comes to town for another reason and is injured in the process? That seems more likely.

Yeah, I don't think Felicity is hurt - not sure what MS getting injured would have to do with anything, but that's probably it, unless Oliver's somehow injured, Felicity's upset, and MS comes for support? Maybe that's why Roy's dressed as the Arrow? But probably not because I'm guessing she'll still be with Ray at that point.

I'd be down with the decoy idea, but that pic SA posted of him fighting someone in the Arrow suit is throwing me off.

Edited February 11, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Ariah]

I won't have it past Malcolm to actually drug Roy (who's gulible like a child, I wonder where are his street-smarts) and send him dressed-up as Arrow to attack civilians.

 

Let's face it - the more riddiculous theory we concoct, the more probable it is to happen on the show.

 

So, I'll repeat myself:

- Oliver dies for real and is brought back via Lazarus Pit,

 

and come up with other crazy ideas:

- Oliver is drugged by Ra's or Malcolm and becomes just The Arrow side of his personality,

- After Diggle's wedding, Oliver decides it's time to take five and leaves Starling for good,

- Oliver is arrested for being the Arrow by Quentin and then Roy impresonates the Arrow in order to help him, beause Diggle is unavailable due to his Honeymoon Trip with the Suicide Squad.

- the fake Arrow that Oliver is fighting in the photo is not Roy. Roy impresonates the Arrow some other time.

- everybody dresses up as the Arrow to fool Ra's.

[apinknightmare]

Maybe the guy Oliver's fighting is someone from the League posing as Arrow and doing terrible things as part of a plan Ra's has to turn the city against him? And Roy's dressed as Arrow to...I don't know. Maybe Oliver is otherwise incapacitated or just not around.

[jay741982]

I won't have it past Malcolm to actually drug Roy (who's gulible like a child, I wonder where are his street-smarts) and send him dressed-up as Arrow to attack civilians.

Let's face it - the more riddiculous theory we concoct, the more probable it is to happen on the show.

So, I'll repeat myself:

- Oliver dies for real and is brought back via Lazarus Pit,

and come up with other crazy ideas:

- Oliver is drugged by Ra's or Malcolm and becomes just The Arrow side of his personality,

- After Diggle's wedding, Oliver decides it's time to take five and leaves Starling for good,

- Oliver is arrested for being the Arrow by Quentin and then Roy impresonates the Arrow in order to help him, beause Diggle is unavailable due to his Honeymoon Trip with the Suicide Squad.

- the fake Arrow that Oliver is fighting in the photo is not Roy. Roy impresonates the Arrow some other time.

- everybody dresses up as the Arrow to fool Ra's.

I'm trying to imagine Thea or Felicity dressing as the Arrow lol

[GirlvsTV]

Well, we had to get rid of Oliver to make LL remotely viable as BC so he's probably out again for Reasons so Ray can become Atom.

Bleh. Not at all interested in any of this.

[dtissagirl]

If Oliver and Palmer have to team up ~against the system, then Public Enemies make sense. That's actually a good Bats/Supes story, and I can't help but think these writers would like to have Brandon Routh being their proxy Superman.

[Morrigan2575]

Did anyone submit Public Enemies to MG?  He said he'd confirm if someone guessed correctly.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[apinknightmare]

Did anyone submit Public Enemies to MG? He said he'd confirm if someone guessed correctly.

I did.

ETA: it was after he said he'd reveal it if someone guessed it and that no one had yet.

Edited February 11, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Morrigan2575]

Cool, hopefully you got it right.

[ban1o]

Anyone else think that Roy as the Arrow getting arrested is staged? Quentin and the Arrow are allies. I don't see why he would arrest him and I don't think Roy would get arrested so easily?  (He hasn't got arrested as Arsenal...although Lance does know who he is lol) 

Edited February 11, 2015 by ban1o

[Velocity23]

Quentin goes on a rampage because everybody played him for a fool.

[foreverevolving]

Maybe it's dream sequence? Or the entire episode is some weird fantasy one of the characters have? Parallel world.. Too out there?

On another note- Flash just officially introduced the concept of time travel in last night episode so... Really who knows.

[Menrva]

How about "Preposterous"?

 

I need to stock up on Rolaids because I am getting rather queasy from what's been revealed. 

 

I also think Roy dressed as Arrow is a decoy too. I still think Oliver is only teaming up with Malcolm to eventually take him down. It would be so foolish to destroy Ra's - he's worthy of being a recurring bad guy, even if I was kind of unimpressed by Matt Nable's performance. Oh wait. 

 

Poor, poor Quentin. 

 

Why do they revel in making Oliver a dumbass? This is a guy, who despite being a shallow cad for most of his life, found a way to survive against incredible odds, became an expert archer and martial artist, learned to speak fluent Chinese and Russian in 5 years (which are 2 of the hardest languages for English speakers to learn), and also went from being spoiled and selfish to annoyingly selfless to the point of sacrificing his own happiness for the greater good. That should show he's capable of great growth as a human being and yet, I feel like we're on an endless loop of stupid.