tessaray January 12, 2015 Share January 12, 2015 (edited) They might screw this up - no one is safe after the HIMYM fiasco but at this point there hasn't been IMO any groundwork done to go back so I don't think the writing is on the wall or even scratched out in someone's dear diary. I don't think these producers feel the need to be limited to logical plots that have internal consistency. If they want to do something that makes no sense (LL/Instant BC) they just fall back on comics! and expect viewers to STFU and move on. Considering the body count for both Oliver and Laurel's "journey", I have no problem seeing them as endgame now. Because comics (certain versions of them anyway) trump everything else. ETA: This isn't even a bitter post, just realistic. Edited January 12, 2015 by tessaray 1 Link to comment
looptab January 12, 2015 Share January 12, 2015 So they must have realized the "Oliver is REALLY dead dead" angle was dumb, and instead of stringing everyone along with teasing "when will he come back?!" they flat out said he's back in 312. Basically they said "yes, you can skip 10 and 11, but tune in for 12" LOL 2 Link to comment
apinknightmare January 12, 2015 Share January 12, 2015 I know Nyssa is back in 315 but do we have any confirmation of KL filming earlier like 310-314? I'm trying to figure out how long Laurel will be running around as Canary and lying to Lance about Sara being dead, given KC's quote from yesterday. I guess we wouldn't have to see Nyssa for Laurel to contact her. Laurel could just call and ask her what to do, or use whatever archaic form of communication is preferred by the League. Purple smoke. Owl, maybe. Message in a bottle, etc. 1 Link to comment
dtissagirl January 12, 2015 Share January 12, 2015 (edited) So they must have realized the "Oliver is REALLY dead dead" angle was dumb, and instead of stringing everyone along with teasing "when will he come back?!" they flat out said he's back in 312. Basically they said "yes, you can skip 10 and 11, but tune in for 12" LOL But it kinda makes sense too. The show's been renewed, but ratings still influence ad revenue, which influences the show's budget. And ratings are especially important during Sweeps. So while 310-311 can take a hit , it would be swell for them if 312 manages a good number of live eyeballs. Edited January 12, 2015 by dancingnancy Link to comment
calliope1975 January 12, 2015 Share January 12, 2015 Assuming that KC's contract was for 3 seasons and not 6 like SAs, I wonder what they will do with her next season. Given how unpopular Laurel is, will they resign her at the same salary, which means they would need to use her as much? Or will they take some of her money and use it on actors like Brandon Routh. Unless they drop her to recurring, KC's agent would have to be a complete incompetent idiot to let them re-sign her for less than she's making now. She's either staying at what she makes (unlikely) or she's getting a raise. It is interesting, though, if they make BR a regular next year. Odds are JB is only going to stick around for this year as I can't see how they could stretch his story out, and that would free up some money. From the Kreisberg TVLine stuff in the Spoiler thread, I think that people are correct and Felicity will be shutting Oliver down at the end of episode 12. He'll spend all of his recovery thinking about her, and maybe he'll come back wanting to be with her, but she'll say no because of the way his latest "death" has shaken her. I'll be very happy if she stays far far away from a romantic relationship with Ray because I want to see good Olicity moments, and it might look kind of bad if Oliver is making moves on her while she's with Crazy Eyes. I am perfectly fine with Felicity putting the breaks on this time. I think I panicked yesterday because I just had a bad feeling there was going to be Ray/Felicity lunge and DO NOT WANT. But if Felicity wants to figure out where she stands with Oliver's flakiness, that makes perfect sense to me. I'd just rather not have a rebound (is it rebound if Olicity was never together?) relationship with Crazy Ray. 6 Link to comment
apinknightmare January 12, 2015 Share January 12, 2015 I am perfectly fine with Felicity putting the breaks on this time. I think I panicked yesterday because I just had a bad feeling there was going to be Ray/Felicity lunge and DO NOT WANT. But if Felicity wants to figure out where she stands with Oliver's flakiness, that makes perfect sense to me. I'd just rather not have a rebound (is it rebound if Olicity was never together?) relationship with Crazy Ray. From your keyboard to MG and the writer's room's ears. And then to their keyboards, I guess. Don't write that, guys. Link to comment
Guest January 12, 2015 Share January 12, 2015 I am perfectly fine with Felicity putting the breaks on this time. I think I panicked yesterday because I just had a bad feeling there was going to be Ray/Felicity lunge and DO NOT WANT. But if Felicity wants to figure out where she stands with Oliver's flakiness, that makes perfect sense to me. I'd just rather not have a rebound (is it rebound if Olicity was never together?) relationship with Crazy Ray. Same. I'm very ok with Olicity not being together yet. I never expected them to. I just want things to happen for the right, in character reasons. So Felicity putting on the brakes seems right to me, even more so after what we found out about her in 305. It makes sense. My only problem is Ray/Felicity. I can't stand the thought of them together, even more so now, so I really hope there's no romantic relationship. I feel like there might be at some point but as long as it doesn't start in the next couple of episodes I can probably deal. Begrudgingly. But I'll deal. Link to comment
Password January 12, 2015 Share January 12, 2015 I'd just rather not have a rebound (is it rebound if Olicity was never together?) relationship with Crazy Ray. It's funny right? Oliver and Felicity have never been I'm a relationship, but they are. Felicity was never Oliver's "girl" but she most probably mourns like she was. Oliver follows Felicity around like a puppy and says "yes dear" even though they're not married. Felicity rebounds with Ray even though she wasn't together together with Oliver. Yeah...regardless of how I say it Ray being in the sentence takes all the cute out of it. Not that rebounding is cute, just that Ray is really not. 2 Link to comment
looptab January 12, 2015 Share January 12, 2015 (edited) But it kinda makes sense too. The show's been renewed, but ratings still influence ad revenue, which influences the show's budget. And ratings are especially important during Sweeps. So while 310-311 can take a hit , it would be swell for them if 312 manages a good number of live eyeballs. You're right, it does make sense. I just find it amusing that these next 3 episodes seem to have them flailing, in that they seem to be adopting a new advertising strategy every few days: "It's a Laurel trilogy!" "No it's not! Team Arrow front and center!" "Oliver is dead! The show is more than one character, who knows if and when he'll come back!" "He'll be back in episode 12, chill!" That's just funny to me :) Edited January 12, 2015 by looptab 9 Link to comment
Starfish35 January 12, 2015 Share January 12, 2015 Has there ever been any confirmation of the three-year contract thing on KC? Or is that speculation? Link to comment
Belinea January 12, 2015 Share January 12, 2015 (edited) So, is Brandon Routh going to be a regular next season? If they are planing on giving him a spin-off, it probably won't be next season but the season after that. In the meantime what will they do? Where is he going to go? I don't know but I feel like they want to keep him and he is happy to stick around. (As anyone would, he (BR) seems like a nice guy) However I am not sure who is actually interested in an ATOM Spinoff. But maybe I just don't find him as interesting as I should at this point. Well, he will definitely be there until the end of the season. So I have time to still find something I might find interesting. I don't think KC has a different contract in length than SA. The main cast usually signs for the same number of years. I do however believe that they can be let go for creative reason but you have to pay them a certain amount of money for the dissolution of the contract. Edited January 12, 2015 by Belinea Link to comment
statsgirl January 12, 2015 Share January 12, 2015 (edited) It's funny right? Oliver and Felicity have never been I'm a relationship, but they are. Felicity was never Oliver's "girl" but she most probably mourns like she was. Oliver follows Felicity around like a puppy and says "yes dear" even though they're not married. That's Guggenheim's amazingly edgy writing that keeps them together even though they're apart. [/sarcasm] Has there ever been any confirmation of the three-year contract thing on KC? Or is that speculation? Nope, it's just speculation. The standard CW contract is 3 years, which most of the cast signed for (e.g. CH's and EBR's ends at the end of next season because they started a season late). We know that SA signed for 6 but that makes sense because he's the show title character. The other thing is, if KC's contract weren't three years, why the big rush to make her BC? It would have worked better to take this year having her a lawyer who helps the team with Sara dropping in occasionally (and making Laurel better liked), and then kill Sara next season to justify Laurel taking up her mask. Edited January 12, 2015 by statsgirl 2 Link to comment
Genki January 12, 2015 Share January 12, 2015 Even as BC I can't find a relevance for Laurel that the majority of fan would accept. BC may be GA equal in comics, but nobody liked this when we had a competent believable Canary in Season 2A. So you can't integrate her into Team Arrow too much, she ignored the law too much with her quest for Sara's Identity (it was awful in S1 when they tied stuff/baddies to Laurel work), she was not shown as a capable city leader, she isn't the romantic LI. There really isn't anything left for Laurel in Arrow, so maybe writing her off only benefit the show. Only problem Quentin, but introduce him to Mama Smoak and Voila! Family Drama when Oliver dates his other daughter. 4 Link to comment
Sunshine January 12, 2015 Share January 12, 2015 Has there ever been any confirmation of the three-year contract thing on KC? Or is that speculation? I think it's just speculation (or maybe wishful thinking) which makes no sense to me. SA said he has a 6 year contract. Colin Donnell (sp?) said he had a 7 year contract. Since KC was signed as the female lead why would they only offer her a 3 year deal? She was the big CW name. 3 Link to comment
SonofaBiscuit January 12, 2015 Share January 12, 2015 (edited) Has there ever been any confirmation of the three-year contract thing on KC? Or is that speculation? No, there's never been confirmation, only speculation. And for as much as they must pay KC, I will forever not understand the speculation that the EPs actually dislike Laurel or want to get rid of her because a contract doesn't mean that your character can't be killed off. If the EPs didn't like her, wouldn't they just kill Laurel off (or send her away) and be done with it? Anyways, I won't rehash this discussion since we've talked about it numerous times, but I think that she's here to stay even if she has a three year contract (hope I'm wrong though). I think that Maseo has to be the one to retrieve Oliver's body, and obviously someone will be helping him with the whole thing since we see Maseo (or whomever) knocking on a door. I'm guessing it's going to be Tatsu (I think she's still alive at this point? I admit that I tune out during the HK flashbacks). I've been wondering how they will do the Team Arrow reunion scene. Will Oliver just show up? "Surprise, I'm not dead!" Will he go to the foundry, or will he head straight for Felicity's apartment? Will he call first to tell everyone that he's alive? So many questions. Edited January 12, 2015 by SonofaBiscuit 1 Link to comment
statsgirl January 12, 2015 Share January 12, 2015 (edited) He goes to Felicity's apartment, she has a heart attack on seeing him and boom! ship stalled some more. If the EPs didn't like her, wouldn't they just kill Laurel off and be done with it? Speculation was that she had a clause in her contract that they had to pay her megabucks is they took her off the show before the contract was over. Edited January 12, 2015 by statsgirl Link to comment
Starfish35 January 12, 2015 Share January 12, 2015 Yeah seriously what exactly are they planning to do with Routh next season? Because as I believe Sakura12 pointed out, it's worked out so well with KC having a character who's in a completely separate storyline track from everyone else. /sarcasm 2 Link to comment
SonofaBiscuit January 12, 2015 Share January 12, 2015 Yeah seriously what exactly are they planning to do with Routh next season? Because as I believe Sakura12 pointed out, it's worked out so well with KC having a character who's in a completely separate storyline track from everyone else. /sarcasm They could put Laurel in a romantic relationship with Ray, thus keeping those two completely off to the side in their own little story that could conveniently be fast-forwarded through entirely. 7 Link to comment
jay741982 January 12, 2015 Share January 12, 2015 SonofaBiscuit I think Oliver will reunite with Diggle Roy and Laurel then Felicity will be last OR he will reunite with all them at once then later in the Episode we have the presumably Felicity rejecting him cause of her issues and cause of the pain felt by losing him 1 Link to comment
catrox14 January 12, 2015 Share January 12, 2015 (edited) My crack theory for today. Zombie!Tommy will arise in ep 12. Tommy will have been dug up from his grave by Malcolm and taken to the Lazarus Pits. Malcolm will believe it failed which is what prompted him to return to Starling City to lay claim to Thea as his spawn. Zombie!Tommy will be revealed to be a member of the LoA and will have been brainwashed into killing Malcolm. Tommy will be the one that retrieves Oliver and nurses him back to health and returns to Starling City with him to kill Malcolm with Oliver's help. Then it will be Malcolm/Thea vs Oliver/Tommy. Please make it be true. Leave me to happy place Edited January 12, 2015 by catrox14 3 Link to comment
jay741982 January 12, 2015 Share January 12, 2015 Statsgirl I can see Felicity having a heart attack or Fainting lol Link to comment
looptab January 12, 2015 Share January 12, 2015 I've been wondering how they will do the Team Arrow reunion scene. Will Oliver just show up? "Surprise, I'm not dead!" Will he go to the foundry, or will he head straight for Felicity's apartment? Will he call first to tell everyone that he's alive? So many questions. Instead I found myself wondering what amazing piece of acting we'll be treated to when the Team tells Laurel that Oliver is dead. Will we have a rehash of the Slade Wilson's revelation's reaction? Oh, the possibilities.... 4 Link to comment
Menrva January 12, 2015 Share January 12, 2015 I was wondering when we'd get treated to a repeat performance of the Twitchy Eyeball School of Acting's star pupil. 4 Link to comment
Chaser January 12, 2015 Share January 12, 2015 I'm wondering what actually they are going to tell Laurel about the exact circimstances of his death. I can't imagine them telling Laurel the whole truth. How much was SA on set during 3x12? I remember some of us thinking he may just pop up briefly at the end of the episode. Link to comment
SonofaBiscuit January 12, 2015 Share January 12, 2015 Maybe they just tell Laurel that Oliver's backpacking in the Andes. 12 Link to comment
blixie January 12, 2015 Share January 12, 2015 I'm at such a low ebb with this show right now I can't even hold out hope for Zombie Tommy theories anymore. This show has long forgotten what fun remotely looks like. That might be the only thing that could win me back over. 1 Link to comment
Guest January 12, 2015 Share January 12, 2015 (edited) Laurel must be told that he's dead because why else would she be stepping into her BC outfit and helping out the team. It's 'all suits on deck,' remember? Ugh, still hate that phrase. It'll be interesting to find out Laurel's reaction to his death though. I do wonder if they'll tell her about Thea too. I'm guessing not because she'd probably fly off the handle or something which is the last thing they need. Edited January 12, 2015 by Guest Link to comment
KirkB January 12, 2015 Share January 12, 2015 (edited) I'd like to see Felicity and Diggle decide to hide Oliver's death from Laurel until she tells her father about Sara. Edited January 13, 2015 by KirkB 9 Link to comment
Chaser January 12, 2015 Share January 12, 2015 I like that senario. They tell her Oliver died but make up a cover story. Then she finds out everything and demands to know why she wasn't told about Thea or Malcolm. They can tell her they were worried about her health. 3 Link to comment
apinknightmare January 12, 2015 Share January 12, 2015 Laurel must be told that he's dead because why else would she be stepping into her BC outfit and helping out the team. It's 'all suits on deck,' remember? Ugh, still hate that phrase. It'll be interesting to find out Laurel's reaction to his death though. I do wonder if they'll tell her about Thea too. I'm guessing not because she'd probably fly off the handle or something which is the last thing they need. I bet they tell her he dies, but I doubt they'll tell her why. God, the potential for righteous, messed-up anger is so great when she finds out that Malcolm actually was responsible for Sara's death and Oliver let him go, I'm so sad nothing will probably ever come of it. 1 Link to comment
Danny Franks January 12, 2015 Share January 12, 2015 (edited) I am perfectly fine with Felicity putting the breaks on this time. I think I panicked yesterday because I just had a bad feeling there was going to be Ray/Felicity lunge and DO NOT WANT. But if Felicity wants to figure out where she stands with Oliver's flakiness, that makes perfect sense to me. I'd just rather not have a rebound (is it rebound if Olicity was never together?) relationship with Crazy Ray. It's going to damage Felicity in the eyes of many, if she hooks up with 50 Shades after shutting Oliver down. Not because she doesn't have a right to choose the guy she wants, even if he is a creepy stalker who has no sense of personal boundaries, but because the viewers know that Oliver's last thoughts as he was dying were of Felicity. So for Oliver to come back, want to pursue their nascent relationship and for Felicity to say no, only to then get together with another guy a couple of episodes later? That would mean that Oliver would get pretty much all the sympathy from the audience, at first woobie face. And speaking from experience of stupid writer moves like this, I think that once the character is damaged or compromised in the eyes of a section of the audience, it's rare that the rift is ever fully healed. So I would hope these people have thought very carefully before sticking Felicity into a relationship with another guy. I doubt they have though. Edited January 12, 2015 by Danny Franks 8 Link to comment
Chaser January 12, 2015 Share January 12, 2015 They love to set Laurel up with some righteous anger. I'm wondering if she doesn't find out from Nyssa in what I'm just going to assume is 3x15. Someone on tumblr mentioned Nysaa and Laurel teaming up to take down Malcom. Which works in the sense of their relationship to Sara, but not so much in logic. Nyssa has a good chance but Laurel is Laurel. And the idea that Oliver doesn't get to take down the man who destoryed his life and his families lives is crazy. Link to comment
statsgirl January 12, 2015 Share January 12, 2015 And the idea that Oliver doesn't get to take down the man who destoryed his life and his families lives is crazy. Yes. The "Thea loves him" excuse is out now that Oliver knows Merlyn used her to kill Sara. Way to kill the show if Oliver is all woobie over Felicity while Laurel takes down Malcolm. Link to comment
AyChihuahua January 12, 2015 Share January 12, 2015 If they tell Laurel Ra's killed Oliver with Nyssa's blessing, then Laurel goes to Nyssa for help and advice, that doesn't exactly make Laurel look good. I love Nyssa and all, but unless she's the one who saves Oliver (which seems unlikely), she's kind of a real bad guy now. 1 Link to comment
jay741982 January 12, 2015 Share January 12, 2015 If Felicity doesn't know stuff like Oliver's last thought was of her before "Dying" after she slams the breaks on them getting together people need to cut her some slack. Plus it's the WRITERS fault. Plus she may never fully start a relationship with Ray. I'm not gonna hate Felicity or have my image of her Tarnished because Guggenheim is an idiot. Or an asshole who wants people to start disliking her cause he's a fan of a horrible character. Plus it's not like Felicity has Oliver's history. 1 Link to comment
catrox14 January 12, 2015 Share January 12, 2015 To be fair, everyone in the LoA is a bad guy including Sara. But it's degrees of badness. 2 Link to comment
Danny Franks January 12, 2015 Share January 12, 2015 If Felicity doesn't know stuff like Oliver's last thought was of her before "Dying" after she slams the breaks on them getting together people need to cut her some slack. Plus it's the WRITERS fault. Plus she may never fully start a relationship with Ray. I'm not gonna hate Felicity or have my image of her Tarnished because Guggenheim is an idiot. Or an asshole who wants people to start disliking her cause he's a fan of a horrible character. Plus it's not like Felicity has Oliver's history. That's not really the way things tend to work with viewers who feel strongly about a show, in my experience. It's natural to side with one character or the other, depending on how strongly you identify with them, and I think this sort of storyline would be a really good (read: terribly bad) way of swinging too much favour in Oliver's direction. But hey, maybe that's what they want, if Guggenheim doesn't want Olicity to stick around permanently. Link to comment
apinknightmare January 12, 2015 Share January 12, 2015 That's not really the way things tend to work with viewers who feel strongly about a show, in my experience. It's natural to side with one character or the other, depending on how strongly you identify with them, and I think this sort of storyline would be a really good (read: terribly bad) way of swinging too much favour in Oliver's direction. But hey, maybe that's what they want, if Guggenheim doesn't want Olicity to stick around permanently. It could work depending on how they do it. We don't know the whats and whys and hows yet, so it's difficult to say how the audience would swing after Felicity does whatever she does. It's also difficult to gauge what exactly is going on based on these interviews, because a lot of things the EPs have deemed as devastating, heartbreaking or whatever really aren't. So maybe it won't be that bad and will actually be understandable. Link to comment
ostentatious January 12, 2015 Share January 12, 2015 I think it's just speculation (or maybe wishful thinking) which makes no sense to me. SA said he has a 6 year contract. Colin Donnell (sp?) said he had a 7 year contract. Since KC was signed as the female lead why would they only offer her a 3 year deal? She was the big CW name. CD almost surely meant the typical three with a four year option, so he meant he was telling himself he had 7 years of work, which is what one would hope, signing 3+4. No way he had more than SA. KC may have matched SA or may also have a 3 yr with +4 option like the rest seem to have. 2 Link to comment
AnalyzeAndCritique January 12, 2015 Share January 12, 2015 The photo of KC as BC is horrible and a representation of what I feel Arrow is. A black costume on a black background is crap. Any good photographer/marketing person knows you'd have to properly light a setting. I feel they purposely keep it in the shadows so the magnificent flaws aren't glaringly obvious. They do it with their show all the time. I think they are hoping at the end of their run the audience will look back and eat crow for criticising them and then bow at their brilliance. I don't see it happening. Audiences are to smart and connected now. 2 Link to comment
Velocity23 January 12, 2015 Share January 12, 2015 Where is Ms Justice in the promo stills? Link to comment
dtissagirl January 12, 2015 Share January 12, 2015 (edited) That's a whole lot of focus on a bionic hand for a dude that actually has both hands. Prayer circle it's an evil hand a la Christian Kane on Angel. Otoh, that's three different outfits for Felicity, right? Go costume department! Edited January 12, 2015 by dancingnancy 3 Link to comment
apinknightmare January 12, 2015 Share January 12, 2015 I wonder when they'll find out Oliver is dead in this ep. Toward the end? Link to comment
statsgirl January 13, 2015 Share January 13, 2015 It makes sense to give them part of the episode working as if Oliver is going to come back and then DRAHMAH! as Malcolm tells them he's dead. Whole new game new week as they try to deal with having him gone. Link to comment
Guest January 13, 2015 Share January 13, 2015 I don't care about Ray and his creepy hand but I do care about Diggle and I'm loving seeing him out there in the field and going up against Vinnie Jones. I'm sure he has a character name but I'll just call him Vinnie Jones always. I wonder if the team won't find out Oliver is dead until the very end of the episode? Link to comment
jay741982 January 13, 2015 Share January 13, 2015 Angel12d Vinnie Jones is playing Brick and like you im loving seeing Diggle go against him Link to comment
NumberCruncher January 13, 2015 Share January 13, 2015 They could put Laurel in a romantic relationship with Ray, thus keeping those two completely off to the side in their own little story that could conveniently be fast-forwarded through entirely. Seriously, can we PLEASE have this? I loathe the fact that in order to watch my favorite character (Felicity), I'm forced into watching the only character I hate (Ray) because heaven forbid the woman have her own story arc separate from his. *eyeroll* At least if they threw Laurel and Ray together to fight crime I could ignore their scenes altogether because I. Just. Don't. Care. 6 Link to comment
catrox14 January 13, 2015 Share January 13, 2015 Ray can go to his own show and take Laurel with him. 6 Link to comment
jay741982 January 13, 2015 Share January 13, 2015 I do wonder if Oliver is gonna come back and reaffirm his undying love for Felicity than she says she's with Ray and doesn't love him. She would be lying but with MGs comment he could be exaggerating or dead on that us Olicity fans would hate him. Link to comment
chaos is welcome January 13, 2015 Share January 13, 2015 Can I just say, re latest Guggenheim meddling in the spoiler thread...I thought Sara was NOT the bc, just canary??? Can we pls make up or minds on this? If the tweeter had said "buckles" he would have known which canary. But probably would not have answered. oh wait, prob not. Bc it is a laurel trilogy, it isn't a laurel trilogy... I can see felicity putting on the brakes, if only for the it-hurts-to-much-to-lose-you-and-nothing-has-really-changed. I am scared to see how they wrote her reaction to him being alive though. I am also super worried, yet disgustingly sure that 90% of felicity's "Oliver is dead" screen time will be with crazy eyes. This does not please me. Please, buckles and bionic crazy eyes belong together. Make it so. Link to comment
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