Primal Slayer May 7, 2018 Share May 7, 2018 I doubt it was a KC/SA thing. They spent 4 years being in plenty of scenes together. I just chalk it up to most things this season: bad writing and poor planning. Link to comment
way2interested May 7, 2018 Share May 7, 2018 It's not necessarily bad writing or planning if they were teaming up KC with the most logical (and her best) scene partner PB. Bad writing would have been pairing her with someone other than Lance for the season, even though the Lance/BS plot is already messy as a starting point. I was thinking that they probably realized they need a reason that BS would stick around and that maybe she couldn't if she's completely evil, so they wrote this pseudo-redemption thing so that there could be a reason why Team Arrow people wouldn't immediately try to take her down, like her public comeback or her seemingly helping Dinah in the field at some point. It doesn't look like they are setting her up for a 180 turnaround but more of a reason to continue to exist. 2 Link to comment
Primal Slayer May 7, 2018 Share May 7, 2018 I'd still say it's bad planning/writing if they planned on having her around AND IF they were planning on getting rid of lance but not starting to form any sort of bond with anyone else. They could set all of that up in 6x23 but it's still a little late. Link to comment
way2interested May 7, 2018 Share May 7, 2018 At that point it's between a rock and a hard place, bad writing in making a random previously non-existent bond between BS and a character who has no ties to BS and doesn't work with KC as well or risk possible future bad writing at figuring out how or why she's around in a season they didn't start yet while focusing on bigger characters and relationships that they already have to break down. It's basically choosing between breaking something that was relatively working for them and making something worse just to possibly make something work better in the future and they chose to not mess up anything in the present and just leave that problem to s7 planning. 1 Link to comment
SmallScreenDiva May 7, 2018 Share May 7, 2018 25 minutes ago, way2interested said: At that point it's between a rock and a hard place, bad writing in making a random previously non-existent bond between BS and a character who has no ties to BS and doesn't work with KC as well or risk possible future bad writing at figuring out how or why she's around in a season they didn't start yet while focusing on bigger characters and relationships that they already have to break down. It's basically choosing between breaking something that was relatively working for them and making something worse just to possibly make something work better in the future and they chose to not mess up anything in the present and just leave that problem to s7 planning. And this is one of the reasons, despite a new show runner and a boatload of new writers, Arrow will never really become good again. It's stuck with characters it has to sell despite the fact they have no natural or relevant place on the show. They're handicapped before they even begin Season 7. 13 Link to comment
way2interested May 7, 2018 Share May 7, 2018 Just now, SmallScreenDiva said: And this is one of the reasons, despite a new show runner and a boatload of new writers, Arrow will never really become good again. It's stuck with characters it has to sell despite the fact they have no natural or relevant place on the show. They're handicapped before they even begin Season 7. I don't know if I fully agree with that. They've been like this since s2 and arguably the pilot itself, so with that then the argument would be that Arrow's never been good from the beginning. Link to comment
SmallScreenDiva May 7, 2018 Share May 7, 2018 13 minutes ago, way2interested said: I don't know if I fully agree with that. They've been like this since s2 and arguably the pilot itself, so with that then the argument would be that Arrow's never been good from the beginning. But they course corrected in Season 1, and Season 2 started off pretty good. It was only when it started straying away from Oliver and adding the masks that Arrow began derailing. 5 Link to comment
Primal Slayer May 7, 2018 Share May 7, 2018 22 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said: And this is one of the reasons, despite a new show runner and a boatload of new writers, Arrow will never really become good again. It's stuck with characters it has to sell despite the fact they have no natural or relevant place on the show. They're handicapped before they even begin Season 7. That's why they should find a natural/relevant place for them if they have to have them. The writers just either refuse or aren't talented enough to make it work. But maybe these new writers will make a difference for the better. Link to comment
way2interested May 7, 2018 Share May 7, 2018 Just now, SmallScreenDiva said: But they course corrected in Season 1, and Season 2 started off pretty good. It was only when it started straying away from Oliver and adding the masks that Arrow began derailing. Not if the argument is "It's stuck with characters it has to sell despite the fact they have no natural or relevant place on the show." They were forced to add CH, they added Slade, they had Laurel, these were characters they had to sell regardless of their relationships to Oliver, with Laurel and Roy not even incorporated into Oliver's team way into their introductions. They've always had to work with characters that don't easily incorporate into Oliver's story since the beginning, so I don't think that that's the central reason of anything being bad (plus the idea that it is regarded that s1 got better and that s2 started well, strayed, and then ended strong, while I agree with the break down, is also acknowledging that there's been no consistent "good" Arrow, unless 1b-2a counts as consistent, to which then even 2 episodes they were stuck with selling Barry and Roy and Laurel). I do agree with the idea that straying from Oliver is where the show derails, since that encapsulates the idea that straying from Oliver's grounded redemption story into a magic, superpowered, team-up story is where the show derails. The messiness then comes from trying to balance the characters either pushed or introduced to them with Oliver's story, and it overflows everything else. Although how to keep the show centered on their main character while giving the actor more time off is a mess for them as well. I guess I just give sympathy since I feel like a bunch of the choices are things out of their hands, but I also understand where it is their fault. They are the ones writing unflattering moments for these characters and making them somewhat of a drag on the show more than they intended, but then at the end of the day if they have to use these characters and they actually like them, I can't necessarily fault them for wanting to use them. Balancing is just their weakest point and having new characters they have/innocently want to use mixed with the desire to still center the show on Oliver mixed with giving the older cast time off mixed with higher up demands mixed with who knows what else makes it all a mess. Link to comment
SmallScreenDiva May 7, 2018 Share May 7, 2018 29 minutes ago, way2interested said: Not if the argument is "It's stuck with characters it has to sell despite the fact they have no natural or relevant place on the show." They were forced to add CH, they added Slade, they had Laurel, these were characters they had to sell regardless of their relationships to Oliver, with Laurel and Roy not even incorporated into Oliver's team way into their introductions. They've always had to work with characters that don't easily incorporate into Oliver's story since the beginning, so I don't think that that's the central reason of anything being bad (plus the idea that it is regarded that s1 got better and that s2 started well, strayed, and then ended strong, while I agree with the break down, is also acknowledging that there's been no consistent "good" Arrow, unless 1b-2a counts as consistent, to which then even 2 episodes they were stuck with selling Barry and Roy and Laurel). I do agree with the idea that straying from Oliver is where the show derails, since that encapsulates the idea that straying from Oliver's grounded redemption story into a magic, superpowered, team-up story is where the show derails. The messiness then comes from trying to balance the characters either pushed or introduced to them with Oliver's story, and it overflows everything else. Although how to keep the show centered on their main character while giving the actor more time off is a mess for them as well. I guess I just give sympathy since I feel like a bunch of the choices are things out of their hands, but I also understand where it is their fault. They are the ones writing unflattering moments for these characters and making them somewhat of a drag on the show more than they intended, but then at the end of the day if they have to use these characters and they actually like them, I can't necessarily fault them for wanting to use them. Balancing is just their weakest point and having new characters they have/innocently want to use mixed with the desire to still center the show on Oliver mixed with giving the older cast time off mixed with higher up demands mixed with who knows what else makes it all a mess. Responding in Bitterness thread Link to comment
SmallScreenDiva May 7, 2018 Share May 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Primal Slayer said: That's why they should find a natural/relevant place for them if they have to have them. The writers just either refuse or aren't talented enough to make it work. But maybe these new writers will make a difference for the better. After two seasons? There's not enough goodwill left to make the characters work, especially after the damage inflicted on them this season. Better to start clean, I say, get rid of the BS and the newbies and start populating the show with other recurring characters, preferably ones without masks. 5 Link to comment
Primal Slayer May 7, 2018 Share May 7, 2018 22 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said: After two seasons? There's not enough goodwill left to make the characters work, especially after the damage inflicted on them this season. Better to start clean, I say, get rid of the BS and the newbies and start populating the show with other recurring characters, preferably ones without masks. The hatred for NTA wasn't nearly as big in s5 as it was in s6 when Civil War took over. While they played out the drama angle between the two teams, if they focus on making them act mature and give some decent storylines I think majority of the audience will forgive them. Link to comment
Velocity23 May 7, 2018 Share May 7, 2018 1 minute ago, Primal Slayer said: The hatred for NTA wasn't nearly as big in s5 as it was in s6 when Civil War took over. While they played out the drama angle between the two teams, if they focus on making them act mature and give some decent storylines I think majority of the audience will forgive them. Not sure that after this season they will really be given decent storylines. The focus will most likely be on OTA + Roy. It was clear that Wendy Mericle was let go because the direction with the NTA failed. And you need to build on the good before you repair the bad. Curtis and Dinah doing a last minute apology in season finale wont really change anything if the end result is still Oliver in prison, his loved ones facing consequences, while NTA is uneffected. Link to comment
Primal Slayer May 7, 2018 Share May 7, 2018 Was it clear? She moved on to bigger pastures and I dont a failed storyline would get a showrunner fired, especially if they survived s4. Link to comment
Velocity23 May 7, 2018 Share May 7, 2018 9 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said: Was it clear? She moved on to bigger pastures and I dont a failed storyline would get a showrunner fired, especially if they survived s4. Bigger pastures? She just inked a deal with ABC studios. A studio she worked with before on Desperate Housewife. Its not a guarantee of a new show. She was always one of the people Berlanti brought to several of his productions and he also has a pilot in work on the same network. 1 Link to comment
tv echo May 7, 2018 Share May 7, 2018 (edited) I couldn't find where this tweet was posted before, so I'm posting it again (for achive purposes)... So Tonya has tweeted about visits to the Arrow writers room by DR, KC, JH, RG and EK. But no tweets about SA or EBR visits? However, I did see that Tonya is an OTA fan, so that's promising... Edited May 7, 2018 by tv echo Link to comment
Primal Slayer May 7, 2018 Share May 7, 2018 35 minutes ago, Velocity23 said: Bigger pastures? She just inked a deal with ABC studios. A studio she worked with before on Desperate Housewife. Its not a guarantee of a new show. She was always one of the people Berlanti brought to several of his productions and he also has a pilot in work on the same network. ABC studios is bigger and better pay then CW. Link to comment
statsgirl May 7, 2018 Share May 7, 2018 2 hours ago, SmallScreenDiva said: And this is one of the reasons, despite a new show runner and a boatload of new writers, Arrow will never really become good again. It's stuck with characters it has to sell despite the fact they have no natural or relevant place on the show. They're handicapped before they even begin Season 7. We don't know anything about the contracts for KC, JH, EK and RG. They may have been for one year only, they may have been negotiated for a limited number of episodes for season 7. There's a new showrunner, it would be unfair to tie her hands like that and expect her to produce a good show. Link to comment
Primal Slayer May 7, 2018 Share May 7, 2018 Either way they will be in at least half the season. But if you have the right writers they can make them work. The general storylines this season were good but executed horribly and poorly, it didn't have to do with NTA being NTA. Link to comment
Mary0360 May 7, 2018 Share May 7, 2018 Whose to say NTA or Black Siren are going to even be main characters next season? One writer tweeting how nice she found them or how excited she was to meet them doesn't mean the show is going to be all about them. Honestly the fact that Roy is back suggest if anything they are going to be pushed to the background for him and OTA. David also made comments that season 7 was going to shape up to be more about OTA and their families. I mean we might be stuck with NTA but Black Siren being mentioned by random writer in random tweet could even mean that whatever cliffhanger they have for the end of the season they need Black Siren to come back for to wrap it up. It's not like Katie Cassidy showed any appreciation or acknowledgement that the show was picked up for a 7th season which you think one would if they were lined up to have some big storyline or story arch. In fact at the last few cons Katie has talked more about her bitterness over how she was killed off then about her excitement over the future. As for the newbies, again I think Colton coming back spells background city for them. He's going to take the natural place that they fill on the show. Link to comment
Primal Slayer May 7, 2018 Share May 7, 2018 She did all of 1 con? where she talked about not being that happy with how they handled her characters death. And KC isn't going to be coming back for a 2 epsiode wrap up. There's no need to meet with her for that, she is a series regular. And they arent going to bring these characters back to just stand in the background being silent for an entire season. They will still get screentime, still have some stories thrown at them. The show isnt going to be all about them, thats for sure but this season hasnt even been all about them. Link to comment
JamieLynn832002 May 8, 2018 Share May 8, 2018 Am I the only one desperately hoping Diaz' upcoming attack somehow renders Oliver's apartment unlivable? I know it's a petty thing to worry about but I hate that place more than words can adequately describe. It's like the NTA of apartments for me. 12 Link to comment
tv echo May 9, 2018 Share May 9, 2018 (edited) Not really a spoiler, but just another indication that RG will be back next season... The Tuesday Spot Feat.....Rick Gonzalez D-Hour Radio Network May 8, 2018http://www.blogtalkradio.com/dhourshow/2018/05/09/the-tuesday-spot-featrick-gonzalez Interviewer: "As far as Arrow... is there a chance that we're going to see Wild Dog back in the next season?" RG: "In next season? ... Yeah, I mean, we definitely got picked up for next season. And, uh, as far as I'm concerned, I better be there next season." When interviewer asked if he was working on any new tv or film projects, RG said that, right now, all of his time and attention is devoted to Arrow. RG added: "We're excited for Season 7." Edited May 9, 2018 by tv echo Link to comment
Velocity23 May 9, 2018 Share May 9, 2018 (edited) On 8. 5. 2018 at 12:51 AM, Primal Slayer said: She did all of 1 con? where she talked about not being that happy with how they handled her characters death. And KC isn't going to be coming back for a 2 epsiode wrap up. There's no need to meet with her for that, she is a series regular. What else has she has going on? Also there are different types of regualrs ... She definetely isnt a series regular like even RG, Echo or JH. Also from what i can recall these writers are not the main drivers of the story. That will be determined by Beth and Berlanti. Edited May 9, 2018 by Velocity23 Link to comment
bijoux May 9, 2018 Share May 9, 2018 35 minutes ago, tv echo said: Not really a spoiler, but just another indication that RG will be back next season... The Tuesday Spot Feat.....Rick Gonzalez D-Hour Radio Network May 8, 2018http://www.blogtalkradio.com/dhourshow/2018/05/09/the-tuesday-spot-featrick-gonzalez Interviewer: "As far as Arrow... is there a chance that we're going to see Wild Dog back in the next season?" RG: "In next season? ... Yeah, I mean, we definitely got picked up for next season. And, uh, as far as I'm concerned, I better be there next season." When interviewer asked if he was working on any new tv or film projects, RG said that, right now, all of his time and attention is devoted to Arrow. RG added: "We're excited for Season 7." I actually read his answer as evasive. Are you back? -... Ummmm. The show is back? 1 Link to comment
Guest May 9, 2018 Share May 9, 2018 59 minutes ago, tv echo said: Interviewer: "As far as Arrow... is there a chance that we're going to see Wild Dog back in the next season?" RG: "In next season? ... Yeah, I mean, we definitely got picked up for next season. And, uh, as far as I'm concerned, I better be there next season." Why do I find his attitude so off-putting? I could be doing him a disservice and maybe it comes across differently but IDK. Something about it. Ugh. On 5/8/2018 at 2:26 AM, JamieLynn832002 said: Am I the only one desperately hoping Diaz' upcoming attack somehow renders Oliver's apartment unlivable? I know it's a petty thing to worry about but I hate that place more than words can adequately describe. It's like the NTA of apartments for me. I want his apartment and the old loft destroyed and they start over somewhere new. I'm hoping that happens next season tbh. Link to comment
insomniadreams88 May 9, 2018 Share May 9, 2018 13 minutes ago, Angel12d said: I want his apartment and the old loft destroyed and they start over somewhere new. I'm hoping that happens next season tbh. It can be like what happened on Bones. Oliver gets out of prison, and Felicity brings him to their new home. Preferably somewhere normal, without the openness of the loft or confusing layout of the apartment. 1 Link to comment
BunsenBurner May 9, 2018 Share May 9, 2018 1 hour ago, tv echo said: Not really a spoiler, but just another indication that RG will be back next season... The Tuesday Spot Feat.....Rick Gonzalez D-Hour Radio Network May 8, 2018http://www.blogtalkradio.com/dhourshow/2018/05/09/the-tuesday-spot-featrick-gonzalez Interviewer: "As far as Arrow... is there a chance that we're going to see Wild Dog back in the next season?" RG: "In next season? ... Yeah, I mean, we definitely got picked up for next season. And, uh, as far as I'm concerned, I better be there next season." When interviewer asked if he was working on any new tv or film projects, RG said that, right now, all of his time and attention is devoted to Arrow. RG added: "We're excited for Season 7." But is he actually saying he’s coming back? Just that he better be. Link to comment
Guest May 9, 2018 Share May 9, 2018 58 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said: It can be like what happened on Bones. Oliver gets out of prison, and Felicity brings him to their new home. Preferably somewhere normal, without the openness of the loft or confusing layout of the apartment. Yeah, that'd be nice. I want somewhere that actually looks like a home. And maybe with some personal touches, like their old travel pics. Their apartment is so cold and ugly. LOL. Mainly I just want the loft set gone though. Time for a change. Link to comment
Primal Slayer May 9, 2018 Share May 9, 2018 2 hours ago, Velocity23 said: What else has she has going on? Also there are different types of regualrs ... She definetely isnt a series regular like even RG, Echo or JH. Also from what i can recall these writers are not the main drivers of the story. That will be determined by Beth and Berlanti. Huh? And a series regular is a series regular, episode may be different but she was a series regular this season and the odds of her having the same title next season? High. We considered Willa a series regular, Katie is no different. Link to comment
Mellowyellow May 9, 2018 Share May 9, 2018 I want to know when EBR is meeting the writers, if she is meeting the writers!!!!! 3 Link to comment
SmallScreenDiva May 9, 2018 Share May 9, 2018 We're probably not going to find out unless that Tonya writer tweets about it. 2 Link to comment
Guest May 9, 2018 Share May 9, 2018 I think EBR is the only one who hasn't met the writers yet, though unless they tweet about it we'll never know. She's not the kind of person to announce that. I guess we'll see though. I hope she does. I feel like she will mainly because it seems like something they all do before every season starts. Link to comment
Mellowyellow May 10, 2018 Share May 10, 2018 Has EBR been in the same town as the writers? I've no idea where they are located. Link to comment
KenyaJ May 10, 2018 Share May 10, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said: Has EBR been in the same town as the writers? I've no idea where they are located. They're in Burbank, which is LA, so yes. Stephen also mentioned his meeting on Twitter. Edited May 10, 2018 by KenyaJ 3 Link to comment
statsgirl May 10, 2018 Share May 10, 2018 I'm glad for SA that he's fired up. But if RG, EK, JH and KC are all coming back while PB and WH are gone, I'm finding it hard to work up any enthusiasm myself. 7 Link to comment
Mellowyellow May 10, 2018 Share May 10, 2018 (edited) We need an Olicitot. An Olicitot will make everything better. Although bloody GB will probably save it for a future crossover or something! I will riot if Olicity get preggers during a crossover. Edited May 10, 2018 by Mellowyellow 3 Link to comment
Chaser May 10, 2018 Share May 10, 2018 I don’t know. An Olicity sex scene on The Flash sounds kind of fun. 15 Link to comment
Primal Slayer May 10, 2018 Share May 10, 2018 An Olicitot would be horrible. Save it for the series finale. 3 Link to comment
way2interested May 10, 2018 Share May 10, 2018 15 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said: Although bloody GB will probably save it for a future crossover or something! I will riot if Olicity get preggers during a crossover. If they wanted a semi-legitimate timeline for a pregnancy if they wanted this to actually be onscreen, it probably couldn't be a crossover and would have to be either a beginning of a season thing (even Flash is pushing it with Cecile announcing it in 403 and having her baby in 423) or an end of the season thing (like Lyla, which was also pushing it) or else just save it for the series finale. Link to comment
SmallScreenDiva May 10, 2018 Share May 10, 2018 54 minutes ago, statsgirl said: But if RG, EK, JH and KC are all coming back while PB and WH are gone, I'm finding it hard to work up any enthusiasm myself. Yeah, three characters I love versus 4 I couldn't give a rat's ass about. Not a good ratio. I need Beth to say all the right things during the hiatus and at SDCC, i.e. all about Olicity and OTA. 10 Link to comment
Mellowyellow May 10, 2018 Share May 10, 2018 A lame villain, awful N00bs and an irrelevant BS have done a great job of trashing S6 already. A cute Olicitot might just save S7, especially as they are going to continue to bring back the unwanted garbage they can't seem to get rid of in S7! And with MG gone if she's a girl they won't have to name her Moira!!!!!! 6 Link to comment
Laina May 10, 2018 Share May 10, 2018 (edited) I just really wish they would kill off any and ALL versions of Laurel. I'm so sick of having to sit through the same bullshit with this character. I wish they'd kill off the Laurel wannabe and the stupid dog. Bring Curtis to be part of TA, and have him, Roy, Fels, Oliver and Diggle as the team. Edited May 10, 2018 by Laina 8 Link to comment
Mary0360 May 10, 2018 Share May 10, 2018 7 hours ago, Chaser said: I don’t know. An Olicity sex scene on The Flash sounds kind of fun. After how warm and receptive The Flash fandom was about sharing a wedding on Legends of Tomorrow I think an Olicity 3x20/5x20 style sex scene on The Flash is the thank you they deserve for their generous support and positive attitude towards the Arrow fandom. Bonus points if they put it in The Flash crossover ep since it's their 100th. Double points if the ghost of Earth 1 Laurel watches from heaven while it's happening. Triple points if Felicity is wearing fishnets and a black leather. 18 Link to comment
tv echo May 10, 2018 Share May 10, 2018 Still nothing yet about EBR meeting with the Arrow writers... Link to comment
tv echo May 10, 2018 Share May 10, 2018 (edited) National Superhero Day was April 28... -- When the interviewer asked what was new with Arrow and her career, KC replied: "Oh, well, I just wrapped actually yesterday the season. And my character - I started out a superhero and I turned into a supervillain, and it's been a blast. Um, a lot of action, obviously. Very action-packed. Very - a lot of twists going on. Um, and I think they're going to leave viewers really excited to go into Season 7." Superhero Day with ARROW Co Star Katie Cassidy Published on May 8, 2018, by Coffee with Americahttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TW9iBgnNRNs Edited May 10, 2018 by tv echo Link to comment
statsgirl May 10, 2018 Share May 10, 2018 Okay..... On 5/7/2018 at 2:53 PM, Primal Slayer said: The hatred for NTA wasn't nearly as big in s5 as it was in s6 when Civil War took over. While they played out the drama angle between the two teams, if they focus on making them act mature and give some decent storylines I think majority of the audience will forgive them. I was thinking about this in terms of Mon El on Supergirl. In s1, he was very divisive They pulled back on that in s2 and generally the audience accepted him in the limited role and married to Imra. But now they're ramping up the love triangle and the dislike is upping again. So while with good writing I think the n00bs may not be hated as much, I doubt that they will ever be loved like OAT and some other characters are. I really doubt that many people will tune in to see what happens with them. They're basically dead weight. It took three seasons to redeem Thea after her bratty first season and she was a teenager with childhood trauma. The show won't run long enough to fix NTA. 1 Link to comment
SmallScreenDiva May 10, 2018 Share May 10, 2018 This goes back to what I was saying earlier, when the characters only "work" when they are pushed in the background that's not really a good thing. Maybe the writers can start pairing off the n00bs with other members on the team to forge bonds instead of sticking Terrible with Felicity, Rabid Dog with Oliver and Tuna with Diggle. But after two seasons, I fear no amount of "bonding" will let me forget how awful they've been. Beth has a really tough job and, to be honest, I don't know that she's really up for it, just judging from her episodes in the past 6 years. She has to recover from a dismal Season 6, sell the n00bs as relevant and somehow shoehorn that cockroach no one seems to be able to get rid of on the show. 8 Link to comment
tv echo May 10, 2018 Share May 10, 2018 (edited) SA is now on KTLA Morning News - live streaming the morning show here ...http://ktla.com/on-air/live-streaming/ Edited May 10, 2018 by tv echo Link to comment
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