Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Sunshine]

1 hour ago, Velocity23 said:

Chase has kidnapped Susan (Carly Pope). Is she just a bargaining chip so Oliver doesn’t kill him? And should we be worried about other people in Oliver’s life?
One, yes, it is a bargaining chip. I think you nailed it right on the head. He knows that she matters to Oliver. Chase knows that Susan matters, and that’s the move. You take the people that matter most, right? It’s Chase going, “Hey man, I know that you care about her, so I’m going to take her.” Two, I think that’s also the move that goes, “Hey, I know that you’ve been seeing Susan, and I got her, but I also know everybody else that you’re close with. I’m not just here, I’m everywhere else.” That has been fun to play with with Stephen. I’m a big fan of his and a big fan of the show, so I’m trying to take the things that I enjoy and put them into the show as well. I’m trying to take things that I’ve seen and be like, “Hey man, let’s do this.” This week, you watch that permeate with these guys, and see that Chase is coming for Oliver.

Is there anything you can tease of Chase’s endgame?
He’s coming for this guy, he’s coming for him, that’s all I can say. Chase wants to watch the world around Oliver crumble, he just wants to watch it crumble.

http://ew.com/tv/2017/03/14/arrow-josh-segarra-chase-prometheus/?xid=entertainment-weekly_socialflow_twitter

Maybe we're focusing on the wrong thing.  He neutralizes Oliver using Susan. Felicity puts herself in danger by getting into bed with Helix to save Oliver.  

[Trisha]

1 hour ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Why is everyone pushing Oliver/Susan so much? I just don't get it. These interviews aren't going to change anyone's mind about her. In fact, I'm just getting more annoyed the more they talk about her.

Honestly every time someone mentions her in an interview, I just replace Susan's name with Thea's. I'm warming up to the rumours that Thea was supposed to be integral to Chase/Talia's plan but WH's availability meant the writers had to scramble and extend CP's run. There's no way we've always been meant to care this much about Susan - or believe Oliver cares this much. 

Does anyone know if this person has accurately spoiled things in the past? She's posting supposed dialogue teases for 516: 

[statsgirl]

I think if you take the job under the condition that you have to kill everyone in your hometown, I'd say you're already coocoo for CocoaPuffs and lost all your honour.

I know "Checkmate" is a cool title but it means that the game is over, the king is dead.  It's not the end of the season yet, shouldn't they be called "Check"?

1 hour ago, Velocity23 said:

He knows that she matters to Oliver. Chase knows that Susan matters, and that’s the move. You take the people that matter most, right? It’s Chase going, “Hey man, I know that you care about her, so I’m going to take her.” Two, I think that’s also the move that goes, “Hey, I know that you’ve been seeing Susan, and I got her, but I also know everybody else that you’re close with. I’m not just here, I’m everywhere else.”

This makes so much more sense if I replace Susan with Thea.  The second part, " I also know everybody else that you’re close with. I’m not just here, I’m everywhere else.", sounds like Seguarra fanwanking tomake sense of the writing.  Didn't Proetheus just do that in the mid season finale?  So why repeat himself?

1 hour ago, wonderwall said:

I feel like Felicity joining Helix to save Oliver, a man who is still alive and who she still loves, is a much better reason to join the organization than to avenge a dead guy she didn't really love. But that's just me.

It is in terms of Olicity, yes.  But there's no growth for Felicity in it and that's what we were promised for Felicity this season.  Even in seasons 3 and 4 at PT, there was personal growth for her.

24 minutes ago, LadyChaos said:

In the JS interview he said that her being a reporter 'may have played into' why she was chosen instead of the others.

Because she could blog about her kidnapping?  And reveal Oliver's secrets?

[apinknightmare]

41 minutes ago, Trisha said:

Honestly every time someone mentions her in an interview, I just replace Susan's name with Thea's. I'm warming up to the rumours that Thea was supposed to be integral to Chase/Talia's plan but WH's availability meant the writers had to scramble and extend CP's run. There's no way we've always been meant to care this much about Susan - or believe Oliver cares this much. 

Does anyone know if this person has accurately spoiled things in the past? She's posting supposed dialogue teases for 516: 

If this is right, then it seems like she goes to Helix for help with Susan first, and then Oliver. Unless someone else goes missing, seems like her "friends" are Susan and Oliver. I guess maybe she's going to have to do the favor to help Oliver, not Susan.

If that second tease is Oliver and Felicity, then it's nice that he heads off his concern being about (what I'm assuming is) Prometheus possibly hurting Susan.

Edited March 15, 2017 by apinknightmare

[LadyChaos]

2 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

 

 

Because she could blog about her kidnapping?  And reveal Oliver's secrets?

I think because he is hoping to turn her against him and get her to publicly out him about everything, yes.  Remember, she is established as an credited reporter again, she has her job back.

[LeighAn]

I'm honestly lost over what people are upset about ?? 

[insomniadreams88]

15 minutes ago, Trisha said:

Does anyone know if this person has accurately spoiled things in the past? She's posting supposed dialogue teases for 516: 

That second one would make sense if we're getting the "adult" conversation in 516... 

[LadyChaos]

17 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

I'm honestly lost over what people are upset about ?? 

Everyone is just jumping to conclusions over the Yonkur spoiler that 'Felicity is thinking less about moral and immoral now, and relying on Oliver's morality to guide her'.  That she'll essentially sell her soul to Helix to save Oliver from Prometheus.   They believe this just goes to show that she is getting no arc separate from Oliver/Arrow....and that everything about Felicity ties to Oliver/Arrow/Olicity.  

However someone pointed out about that this is totally in character for Felicity to go to any length to save those that she cares about.  So it's really not that surprising that she would sacrifice apart of her soul to save Oliver from Prometheus by doing with Helix asks of her.  

 

Also, I think (sorry to be real and blunt and rude)  a lot of people are forgetting that this show is called ARROW, because its supposed to be about Oliver Queen's journey from hood to Green Arrow so, yes, almost all the storylines tie back or to Oliver.  Everyone of Diggle's arc, minus the suicide squad eps, tied in with Oliver,  Curtis tied to Felicity and then Oliver and cost him his marriage,  Renee will get his kid back because he wanted to be like the Green Arrow and Oliver sought him out,  Evelyn turned on the team because of Oliver,  everything about LL was bc of Oliver,  QL started drinking both times over the loss of his daughters because of their affiliation to Oliver.  No one gets arcs or growth that is completely separate from Oliver.   Hell, not every Barry or  Ray Palmer are free from their story's starting because of Oliver.  Felicity is not going to be different.  To be honest,  I think Felicity and Oliver are their best selves when they are in sync and together as friends and a couple, so it doesn't bother me that her sl is connected to Oliver at all.

Edited March 15, 2017 by LadyChaos

[LeighAn]

Okay all caught up. As far as spoilers go I'm not seeing the big deal. Not going to lie Prometheus hasn't been a huge interest to me this season- episode 9 and last episode was probably the only episodes that really hooked me- so I'm not too invested one way or another I'm just along for the ride.

As for Felicity, meh writing "Felicity seems...." screams opinion to me not a fact. and I've had different opinions then the spoiler dude before. He made 5x10 sound like a Black Siren showcase and an ode to Lauriver when I saw the episode as the most Olicity episode of the season  and Felicity punched Black Siren.

Im reserving judgement. I don't like it but since last season I've seen the writers setting up that the ball is in Felicity court in terms of taking a chance with Oliver again, that it's her decision as to whether she is willing to trust him, so I can see how Felicity going to great lengths to save Oliver could start the ball rolling in that regard.

I just hope that Oliver does a little more for Felicity to show he is worthy of her trust again before 5x20 or 5x23 when the reunite. 

[leopardprint]

38 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

 

I'm honestly lost over what people are upset about ?? 

 

 The upset may be over Oliver's perceived outsized concern for the reporter when he has barely followed up with Felicity and she recently suffered (what should be) a pretty significant loss.

 

22 minutes ago, LadyChaos said:

Also, I think (sorry to be real and blunt and rude)  a lot of people are forgetting that this show is called ARROW, because its supposed to be about Oliver Queen's journey from hood to Green Arrow so, yes, almost all the storylines tie back or to Oliver. 

I agree this is true but I don't find this Oliver or his repetitive storylines interesting at all. I would love Diggle to be freed from the kiddie table. 

Edited March 15, 2017 by leopardprint

[Mellowyellow]

Everything is background noise until the sex scene as far as I'm concerned!!!!! Bring on 520 and be done with this drivel!

[LadyChaos]

19 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

 The upset may be over Oliver's perceived outsized concern for the reporter when he has barely followed up with Felicity and she recently suffered (what should be) a pretty significant loss.

 

I agree this is true but I don't find this Oliver or his repetitive storylines interesting at all. I would love Diggle to be freed from the kiddie table. 

Diggle's story, IMO, would be better if we saw more of the influence that it's supposed to have on Oliver ( I.E. this the goal that Oliver is working toward, being able to have a life, a wife, and a family) 

we just don't see a lot of that bc filming with kids is hard, and they don't have the actress who plays Lyla very often.

[calliope1975]

2 hours ago, Mrs. de Winter said:

The spoiler about some being told "I'm the man that's going to kill you" seems odd too? 

It feels clunky to me. Like "I don't want to be a woman you love." But then, I've seen too many movies, and I hate when people start monologuing instead of just getting the job done. Heh. 

If the whole point of Snoozan is her reporter status, I wonder why she's still around later on in the season. Is she going to out Oliver at the end of this ep, then show up in 519 or whatever ep and feel bad about it. Not feel bad about it? Actually show up to newsworthy events and do her job? Just for her and Oliver to break up? In short, go away Snoozan. 

1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

Is the point in The Dark Knight Rises where his back is broken and he has to get strong enough to escape the pit?  

Please, oh please, let Oliver's kidnapping end up with him in a pit while a bunch of dudes chant Kumite (not the actual words) while he climbs out. 

[statsgirl]

1 hour ago, LadyChaos said:

Also, I think (sorry to be real and blunt and rude)  a lot of people are forgetting that this show is called ARROW, because its supposed to be about Oliver Queen's journey from hood to Green Arrow so, yes, almost all the storylines tie back or to Oliver.  Everyone of Diggle's arc, minus the suicide squad eps, tied in with Oliver,

Tied to Oliver's story isn't the same as limited to Oliver's story, for me at least.  Diggle's struggles around his relationship with Andy, while set against the back-drop of Oliver's story, wasn't limited to it. and the same goes for his military/general arc this season.  Thea learned to fight from Malcolm and later had to deal with both the bloodlust and her twisted relationship to Malcolm.  Even Laurel had arcs that had nothing to do with Oliver.

Felicitys PT arc, as small as it was, wasn't about Oliver but after 5 seasons on the show, that the only thing she's done that wasn't about Oliver.  I was really excited this season when they talked about her finally getting a real arc, going dark and dealing with everything that has happened to her because dammit, the girl needs to process and deal.  But so far, except for 2 scenes in Bratva, she hasn't done anything she wouldn't have done in all the previous seasons.  Now it sounds like she's going to go to Helix to save first Susan and then Oliver and I'm wondering, where is the person who is Felicity in all of this?

Also, if every character's story is about Oliver, after a few seasons the writing just ends up repeating the same beats, as it does on this show now. You have to branch out and explore other characters to keep the show interesting.

Edited March 15, 2017 by statsgirl

[BkWurm1]

43 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Tied to Oliver's story isn't the same as limited to Oliver's story, for me at least.  Diggle's struggles around his relationship with Andy, while set against the back-drop of Oliver's story, wasn't limited to it. and the same goes for his military/general arc this season.  Thea learned to fight from Malcolm and later had to deal with both the bloodlust and her twisted relationship to Malcolm.  Even Laurel had arcs that had nothing to do with Oliver.

Felicitys PT arc, as small as it was, wasn't about Oliver but after 5 seasons on the show, that the only thing she's done that wasn't about Oliver.  I was really excited this season when they talked about her finally getting a real arc, going dark and dealing with everything that has happened to her because dammit, the girl needs to process and deal.  But so far, except for 2 scenes in Bratva, she hasn't done anything she wouldn't have done in all the previous seasons.  Now it sounds like she's going to go to Helix to save first Susan and then Oliver and I'm wondering, where is the person who is Felicity in all of this?

Also, if every character's story is about Oliver, after a few seasons the writing just ends up repeating the same beats, as it does on this show now. You have to branch out and explore other characters to keep the show interesting.

Yeah, they kind of raised expectations when they said her arc wasn't about Oliver.  At this point though I'll be satisfied if we get to keep her new more independent streak, where she doesn't sit around discussing everything and occasionally just takes it into her own hands and explains later.  It isn't always called for but I do see that as growth.  She's more sure of herself and her abilities.  I don't want to have them erase that new habit when she's "saved" from the darkness.

Quote

 

 To be honest,  I think Felicity and Oliver are their best selves when they are in sync and together as friends and a couple, so it doesn't bother me that her sl is connected to Oliver at all.

 

 

 

I have to agree for the most part.  It's when either of them become too far from the other that I usually have issues.  

Edited March 15, 2017 by BkWurm1

[ComicFan777]

I don't know...I think Felicity's arc is more than about Oliver.  It's not so much about Felicity willing to do anything to save Oliver, but that she's willing to do anything to save everyone by any means necessary.  A big flag for me was that her first impulse was to sacrifice herself to fly the plane away with the nuke (like Oliver willing to sacrifice himself to kill Ra's).  She's willing to reveal herself to a questionable group and take info from them to save Dig and she's willing to work with Helix probably in secret to save Susan and Oliver (assuming Helix ends up being bad, it's like Oliver joining the League, not telling anyone about his plans, and working with Malcolm).  

I think Felicity's desperately doing everything (even crossing lines she wouldn't have crossed before since she criticized Oliver for it in S3) to save anyone she can at any cost because she cannot forgive herself for Havenrock.  

Even if it's Oliver that ends up seeing the bigger picture of what's going on with Felicity (because he's gone through it himself) and helps her understand that it's all about her needing to find a different way to forgive herself for Havenrock, I think her realizing that still makes the arc about her.

Edited March 15, 2017 by ComicFan777

[LeighAn]

10 minutes ago, ComicFan777 said:

I don't know...I think Felicity's arc is more than about Oliver.  It's not so much about Felicity willing to do anything to save Oliver, but that she's willing to do anything to save everyone by any means necessary.  A big flag for me was that her first impulse was to sacrifice herself to fly the plane away with the nuke (like Oliver willing to sacrifice himself to kill Ra's).  She's willing to reveal herself to a questionable group and take info from them to save Dig and she's willing to work with Helix probably in secret to save Susan and Oliver (assuming Helix ends up being bad, it's like Oliver joining the League, not telling anyone about his plans, and working with Malcolm).  

I think Felicity's desperately doing everything (even crossing lines she wouldn't have crossed before since she criticized Oliver for it in S3) to save anyone she can at any cost because she cannot forgive herself for Havenrock.  

Even if it's Oliver that ends up seeing the bigger picture of what's going on with Felicity (because he's gone through it himself) and helps her understand that it's all about her needing to find a different way to forgive herself for Havenrock, I think her realizing that still makes the arc about her.

This I absolutely can see and is why I'm waiting to reserve judgement. I'm hoping when and if Oliver and Felicity get trapped and have to air out their issues hopefully we will get some enlightenment of where Felicitys heads been at and what she is doing with her life.

But even if it turns out she is motivated with a need to save and protect Oliver for Oliver and not some greater lying reason I don't necessarily think that is an inherently bad problem as she has always been someone who has been motivated with a need to protect the people she loves. 

[BkWurm1]

17 minutes ago, ComicFan777 said:

I don't know...I think Felicity's arc is more than about Oliver.  It's not so much about Felicity willing to do anything to save Oliver, but that she's willing to do anything to save everyone by any means necessary.  A big flag for me was that her first impulse was to sacrifice herself to fly the plane away with the nuke (like Oliver willing to sacrifice himself to kill Ra's).  She's willing to reveal herself to a questionable group and take info from them to save Dig and she's willing to work with Helix probably in secret to save Susan and Oliver (assuming Helix ends up being bad, it's like Oliver joining the League, not telling anyone about his plans, and working with Malcolm).  

I think Felicity's desperately doing everything (even crossing lines she wouldn't have crossed before since she criticized Oliver for it in S3) to save anyone she can at any cost because she cannot forgive herself for Havenrock.  

Even if it's Oliver that ends up seeing the bigger picture of what's going on with Felicity (because he's gone through it himself) and helps her understand that it's all about her needing to find a different way to forgive herself for Havenrock, I think her realizing that still makes the arc about her.

I'm just trying to prepare myself for Havenrock not to even be mentioned.  If they tie it back to Havenrock, then I agree and see your point but I'm keeping my expectations low.  

[Mellowyellow]

5 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I'm just trying to prepare myself for Havenrock not to even be mentioned.  If they tie it back to Havenrock, then I agree and see your point but I'm keeping my expectations low.  

Just supplement canon in your head!

I've been strangely happy since I started doing that!

Makes me feel better that most of the writing in Arrowverse is a bit "WTF" across most of the shows.

[insomniadreams88]

23 minutes ago, ComicFan777 said:

A big flag for me was that her first impulse was to sacrifice herself to fly the plane away with the nuke (like Oliver willing to sacrifice himself to kill Ra's).  

I think Felicity's desperately doing everything (even crossing lines she wouldn't have crossed before since she criticized Oliver for it in S3) to save anyone she can at any cost because she cannot forgive herself for Havenrock.  

Even if it's Oliver that ends up seeing the bigger picture of what's going on with Felicity (because he's gone through it himself) and helps her understand that it's all about her needing to find a different way to forgive herself for Havenrock, I think her realizing that still makes the arc about her.

 

5 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I'm just trying to prepare myself for Havenrock not to even be mentioned.  If they tie it back to Havenrock, then I agree and see your point but I'm keeping my expectations low.  

I think one of the problems is that almost everything that happened in Russia, only Rory knows. (Curtis seemed completely oblivious and more concerned with using the Russian he learned.) And since Rory is gone, I can't see Felicity telling anyone, "yeah, I did this, yeah, I was willing to sacrifice myself." So I too have low expectations. 

If Havenrock is mentioned, I don't think it will be in any major way. It might even be in a flashback - maybe they'll throw something in so that they can say, "see, this is why Oliver never checked with her at the beginning of the season. So stop bringing that up." Even though it wouldn't excuse that whatsoever. 

[BkWurm1]

24 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Just supplement canon in your head!

I've been strangely happy since I started doing that!

Makes me feel better that most of the writing in Arrowverse is a bit "WTF" across most of the shows.

I doubt anyone can watch this show without the supplemental head canon, lol.  It's why Susan doesn't bother me.  She's just the representation of all his current issues to which he projects all his feelings without him actually having any deep feelings for her.  

Kind of a side note but I was talking with some anti Felicity people that were mocking posters that had been complaining about Oliver not going to see her when she was in the hospital instead of celebrating that he was out there hitting people and shooting arrows.  I kind of went off on a long explanation about why people were upset and pretty much the response I got was their head canon that no one should have been that upset since he'd only missed that one last surgery but of course he'd been around for everything else.  

So yeah, lots of head canons flying around, lol.  Make sure to duck.  ;)   

Edited March 15, 2017 by BkWurm1

[bijoux]

So, Helix is huge. And thereby infinintely spookier in my eyes. I was expecting an OTA S1 style operation, not Argus-sized one. I think this pretty much erases the possibility of Chase manipulating them, but if there is more than headcannoning in some of Lexa Doig's interview, the ones where she talks about Talia being a part of the modern world and feeling at ease in a board room, I wouldn't rule out Talia being involved with them.

[MaisyDaisy]

10 hours ago, LeighAn said:

I'm honestly lost over what people are upset about ?? 

I don't see upset? I see some pretty amazing discussions, and people trying to apply logic, like grabbing logic and trying to contort and shove it to fit, but logic is not co-operating. 

 

Everytime Susan is mentioned as 'so important to Oliver' I just want to flood twitter and comment sections about how 'fetch' she is.

[MuuMuuChainsmoker]

A reminder not to be rude about other fans, even if you assume they are only on reddit or Twitter.  

[Trisha]

8 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Yeah, they kind of raised expectations when they said her arc wasn't about Oliver.

Exactly. I know that all stories should tie back to Oliver in some way, but in every interview they've literally told us to expect the opposite. They've sold it so hard as this dark turn being her own arc. MG and WM both talked about it being "independent of Oliver," BFS said it was a culmination of Havenrock/Billy/etc, and SA said she needed "a purpose that exists for her outside the team." So it's clearly a mandated talking point, which makes me get why people are chafing at the suggestion that it's still all revolving around Oliver. My guess (hope?) is that it's all about him this episode, but when she gets in deeper with Helix we find out there's more to it than that. 

[way2interested]

4 hours ago, bijoux said:

So, Helix is huge. And thereby infinintely spookier in my eyes. I was expecting an OTA S1 style operation, not Argus-sized one. I think this pretty much erases the possibility of Chase manipulating them, but if there is more than headcannoning in some of Lexa Doig's interview, the ones where she talks about Talia being a part of the modern world and feeling at ease in a board room, I wouldn't rule out Talia being involved with them.

Tbh, I never saw the possibility of Chase manipulating them as much as just finding out about them and manipulating Felicity to join them, although it makes more sense if Talia ends up being behind that as well.

Although, come to think of it, now I'm wondering how much of this is Talia and how much of this is Chase or if they both just have the same outlook on getting back at Oliver. Prometheus's lines to Oliver in 509 match up with Talia's "I'm going to help you discover who you really are" lines to Oliver that are apparently coming up in 516, so is the whole thing just manipulating Claybourne's son to do the work or did she just find a kindred spirit in revenge against Oliver?

[leopardprint]

8 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I doubt anyone can watch this show without the supplemental head canon, lol.  It's why Susan doesn't bother me.  She's just the representation of all his current issues to which he projects all his feelings without him actually having any deep feelings for her.  

Haha, this is exactly why she does bother me. She's a collection of tropes in a dress and the worst sin of all is she's boring and wishywashy. I do admit to some curiosity to how they are going to extract Oliver from this story. I think some of the spec that she was shoehorned into Thea's storyline or she was meant to be bad may be true.  So she either gives up Oliver for her story (yay), gives up her story for Oliver (bleh), conveniently goes away never to be mentioned again (fine) or she somehow gets a bigger story (and moves to NYC to work for Fox News) that is hopefully not an Iron Man ripoff cause dude is a serial killer and murder is murder no matter how cool the motive.

[statsgirl]

I don't think she's blonde enough for Fox News.

That fanfic where Oliver and Susan are married with kids, okay, but I really don't get the speculation that she is a superhero and will save Oliver and herself.

2 hours ago, Trisha said:

So it's clearly a mandated talking point, which makes me get why people are chafing at the suggestion that it's still all revolving around Oliver. My guess (hope?) is that it's all about him this episode, but when she gets in deeper with Helix we find out there's more to it than that. 

I've never made a potentially hat-eating statement before but I now say that if there is more to it than that, I will eat my hat.

I don't see how there's time.  There's this episode, then the flashback one for 5x17, and everything is wrapped up by 5x20 in time for the big fight at the end.  Two episodes seems too little, especially with everything else going on.

[apinknightmare]

If we're judging things based on the start of the storyline - when she got Pandora - it has been about more than Oliver. She freed Diggle, helped stop the sale of some nukes, some other stuff. If we're talking strictly about her joining Helix, it seems like the motivation there was more for the team (given what she said to Kojo Sledgehammer, or whatever her name is - about fighting fire with fire). This particular stretch of the Helix storyline though - her doing them a favor (which I'm assuming has to do with finding Oliver once he's kidnapped), and perhaps some other stuff since I guess he's gonna still be held at least part of next week does definitely seem to be just about Oliver. 

The only part I don't really see playing out at all is her doing any of this to avenge Billy. I don't recall that being mentioned at all - or even hinted at yet.

[wonderwall]

19 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I've never made a potentially hat-eating statement before but I now say that if there is more to it than that, I will eat my hat.

Noted.

11 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

The only part I don't really see playing out at all is her doing any of this to avenge Billy. I don't recall that being mentioned at all - or even hinted at yet.

The issue here is that we read interviews where Wendy (and literally no one else) continually pushes this. If you didn't read the interviews you wouldn't know she was doing this to avenge Billy. It's just that Billy was the catalyst, not the sole reason. 

Edited March 15, 2017 by wonderwall

[apinknightmare]

6 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

The issue here is that we read interviews where Wendy (and literally no one else) pushes this. If you didn't watch the interview you wouldn't know she was doing this to avenge Billy. It's just that Billy was the catalyst, not the sole reason. 

Good point, I forgot that was a Wendy special!

[wonderwall]

9 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

If we're judging things based on the start of the storyline - when she got Pandora - it has been about more than Oliver. She freed Diggle, helped stop the sale of some nukes, some other stuff. If we're talking strictly about her joining Helix, it seems like the motivation there was more for the team (given what she said to Kojo Sledgehammer, or whatever her name is - about fighting fire with fire). This particular stretch of the Helix storyline though - her doing them a favor (which I'm assuming has to do with finding Oliver once he's kidnapped), and perhaps some other stuff since I guess he's gonna still be held at least part of next week does definitely seem to be just about Oliver. 

I think it's just the audience making it more about Oliver instead of the show... 

[tangerine95]

I don't think Felicity doing everything she can to save Oliver and using helix for that makes her whole storyline about him. The way I took it, after Billy died Felicity just started responding to basically a whole year of awful stuff beyond her control constantly happening and she's been trying to find another way to deal with it and doesn't want to lose people she cares about because she wasn't willing to cross some moral lines. It's not that different from what she was always shown to be capable of, I think she was always a morally gray character but her state of mind rn is more extreme so she's going further. And she did a bunch of stuff independent from Oliver since her storyline started and used it for her own motive of taking Prometheus down.

I would find it weird if she didn't do whatever she could to help Oliver in a situation as urgent as him getting kidnapped by Talia. I'm glad there's some connection to Oliver, on this show there always is and if there isn't then thats like LL's storylines. It does suck that Oliver has been so awful this season that I just want people to abandon him and leave him to Susan and his boring mayor drama because he doesn't deserve better rn lol. 

Edited March 15, 2017 by tangerine95

[leopardprint]

4 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Good point, I forgot that was a Wendy special!

Does she see dialogue/scenes that end up getting cut for more "Actshun!11" scenes or does she actually see final cut?* If they would include a line about how maybe Felicity is falling apart because she failed to save Havenrock/Billy and is disillusioned with herself/Oliver/Team Arrow for their failure to save Billy as well so she joins a more powerful, extreme group. She could have said it to Rory or Billy's tombstone or her tablet. 

*Not sure of this should go here, please delete if not. 

[Carrie Ann]

I think if Helix had popped up only when Felicity needed it to save Oliver, that would make it feel like her S3 Ray/Palmer Tech situation where "her" storyline was really just written out of necessity for Ray's story. Even then, this would be more palatable because in some way, all stories on this show really need to ultimately serve Oliver's story. But they've laid the groundwork for this for many episodes before she even used it for something that was directly and mostly about Oliver, and he doesn't even know about it yet. I would be more frustrated by this storyline if it had gone the way some feared, where Felicity was separated from the team and off on "Helix Island" with a new team. Instead, she is fully integrated in the main stories, while also having her own thing going on. And her motivations for doing this only relate to Oliver insofar as he's been involved in some of the things that have caused her trauma, and that he's one of her teammates and loved ones, and so she will use this tool to help him. At this point, my only concern for how the rest of this plays out is that they won't adequately address her emotional reasons for doing this. Right now it's all headcanon, and I'd like some of that to become explicit. 

Edited March 15, 2017 by Carrie Ann

[Velocity23]

http://www.denofgeek.com/us/tv/arrow/262869/arrow-season-5-whats-next-for-prometheus

[looptab]

You guys have it all wrong. Felicity's involvement with Helix is just Slade's 'corrupt the ones he loves' plan coming to fruition three years later :p

[insomniadreams88]

Have there been any quotes from JS/WM/MG/anyone about Chase and Diggle since the Prometheus reveal? 

Edited March 15, 2017 by insomniadreams88

[apinknightmare]

It's nice to see someone talking about people who matter to Oliver and aren't named Susan.

[leopardprint]

12 minutes ago, looptab said:

You guys have it all wrong. Felicity's involvement with Helix is just Slade's 'corrupt the ones he loves' plan coming to fruition three years later :p

Ok but my fave crack spec is setting up Felicity as the big bad for Season 6. 

[ladylaw99]

I like JS.  He makes me interested in Chase and his storyline.  

[dtissagirl]

56 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

Does she see dialogue/scenes that end up getting cut for more "Actshun!11" scenes or does she actually see final cut?*

She's a showrunner, so she definitely watches A LOT of scenes that end up being cut, and different versions of scenes that they keep, and she most likely watches every single cut of every episode.

[Morrigan2575]

2 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

She's a showrunner, so she definitely watches A LOT of scenes that end up being cut, and different versions of scenes that they keep, and she most likely watches every single cut of every episode.

Including the one that only plays in her head 

[leopardprint]

8 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

She's a showrunner, so she definitely watches A LOT of scenes that end up being cut, and different versions of scenes that they keep, and she most likely watches every single cut of every episode.

Oops, sorry, I meant before she does these interviews?

[dtissagirl]

7 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Including the one that only plays in her head 

LOL yeah. At this point in the history of a show, the only time writers are talking about motivation, and character beats, is when they're breaking the episode as a group in the room. The feeling I have from Wendy's interviews is that she internalizes those discussions, and it doesn't even matter if stuff changes in script, or filming, or editing -- in her mind it's the broke episode that goes. And... it's never the broke episode that goes.

2 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

Oops, sorry, I meant before she does these interviews?

No idea. It looks like they film a bunch of these previews at the same time, so it's likely there are episodes in different stages of production.

[Cleanqueen]

Yeah i think ultimately every storyline ties back to Oliver in some way but I haven't seen Helix being soley about Oliver 6 episodes in...and considering he's yet to even talk to her about it then it's a bit strange to suggest that she joined it because of him. And if we are to assume that Helix helps her find Susan then it's certainly about her and her motivations to help the team and continue doing the job she usually does with Team Arrow albeit using more questionable methods.

Edited March 15, 2017 by Cleanqueen

[Midnight Lullaby]

I'm enjoying Felicity's arc and I think it is exploring a new side of her, even if they aren't willing to go full dark with her. I think it might end up being part of Prometheus' plan so ultimately tied to Oliver but I think if that happens it's just the way this season was conceived, that most of what happened was Prometheus messing up with the team's lives, but it doesn't mean it didn't also teach Felicity something about herself and what she did wasn't about her. I don't think I would have liked an arc fully removed from the main story to be honest.

[Trisha]

Whoa, does Chase set Oliver up to make it look like the Green Arrow does something to Chase's wife or family? I'm so much more interested in Prometheus after the identity reveal...

[looptab]

This 'Oliver aginst Green Arrow' thing gets dumber and dumber. 

[apinknightmare]

3 minutes ago, Trisha said:

Whoa, does Chase set Oliver up to make it look like the Green Arrow does something to Chase's wife or family? I'm so much more interested in Prometheus after the identity reveal...

I guess so - can't think of any other reason why the wife is there if she wasn't a victim. I guess maybe Pike takes the brunt of the Arrowing and that's why he's in the hospital?