Spoiler Discussion Thread

[weathered1]

I think WM says pretty much whatever she wants, regardless of whether or not it's in-keeping with reality. She also couldn't say that that was all we're going to see in terms of WD flashbacks, because that would, in some respects, point to his character possibly going bye-bye . . . which, in all honesty, is something I very much hope happens. 

Moving on . . . I think JH came off very well in that interview. She was aware of the situation she came into, and she's trying to respect the myriad fan opinions while also trying to remain gainfully employed. I do think her answer re: Oliver was interesting, largely because it's something that's been discussed here so much. I know many/most here won't like it, but I truly do think they're going to explore that emotional connection someway, somehow, at some time. 

re: Human Target urging Oliver to date the reporter - if they wanted to (and if they were smart, which, well . . . ) they'd tie it all together: Prometheus is working with/has manipulated HT to work for him when it comes to ruining Oliver's life. HT comes into that piece of info about the reporter, and plants the idea in Oliver's head about dating her. Meanwhile, reporter is also working with/is being manipulated by Prometheus. 

I will just never, ever buy that that shot of the reporter's wrist tattoo wasn't supposed to be significant (at least at that time).

Edited February 20, 2017 by weathered1

[way2interested]

Just now, weathered1 said:

 Moving on . . . I think JH came off very well in that interview. She was aware of the situation she came into, and she's trying to respect the myriad fan opinions while also trying to remain gainfully employed. I do think her answer re: Oliver was interesting, largely because it's something that's been discussed here so much. I know many here won't like it, but I truly do think they're going to explore that emotional connection someway, somehow, at some time. 

Yeah, a lot of props to her being pretty understanding about what's going on with her abrupt introduction and not calling out any side of the fandom. Although I find it funny that she said that Oliver is "teaching her lessons from the heart" when besides her actual introduction, her only interaction with Oliver so far was her giving him a lecture about matters more related to the heart and then having personal conversations with Diggle (and then possibly Felicity in 514) and then probably not as much time with Oliver while Oliver deals with whatever Vigilante/Prometheus/Susan/Felicity's secret plot eruption that probably happens in 515. Not saying it won't happen, just amused at the idea of Oliver doing anything like that in general while everything else is going on.

[LadyChaos]

27 minutes ago, Proteus said:

I didn't see it as useless. I enjoyed reading what she had to say. I for one like Dinah so far.

I mostly found it useless because there was no spoilers, and because she even said its still too early to see how things will go with her character.

[strikera0]

52 minutes ago, LadyChaos said:

http://culturess.com/2017/02/19/exclusive-interview-arrows-newest-black-canary-juliana-harkavy/

 

Just gonna leave this useless interview here.

Thanks for posting the interview. I, for one, enjoyed reading it. Juliana seems to be a pretty good sport. I don't think many people would handle this situation as well as she does. 

[wonderwall]

2 minutes ago, strikera0 said:

Thanks for posting the interview. I, for one, enjoyed reading it. Juliana seems to be a pretty good sport. I don't think many people would handle this situation as well as she does. 

To be fair - she's an actress who wants her role expanded and has no power other than to make herself look the best she can. I doubt she'd fare well by acting like a diva or anything in an interview...

[strikera0]

Just now, wonderwall said:

To be fair - she's an actress who wants her role expanded and has no power other than to make herself look the best she can. I doubt she'd fare well by acting like a diva or anything in an interview...

That might be, but as we have already seen from certain other people on this show, some actors are not above letting their diva-ish side hang out even if they are walking on thin ice. 

[wonderwall]

Just now, strikera0 said:

That might be, but as we have already seen from certain other people on this show, some actors are not above letting their diva-ish side hang out even if they are walking on thin ice. 

I mean that may be true... But JH has less bargaining power than the other actors that already have regular contracts on the show. She'd be an absolute idiot to not be a good sport lol She can't really afford to piss anyone off right now.

[BkWurm1]

1 hour ago, Starfish35 said:

Well, they also used to talk about exploring Sara's time with the LoA, before she took a header off the roof. 

That is true.

Hey, someone finally found a way to positively spin tossing Sara off the roof!

[Starfish35]

Just now, BkWurm1 said:

That is true.

Hey, someone finally found a way to positively spin tossing Sara off the roof!

ROFL. :)

[Sunshine]

As much as I might like to believe otherwise, TPTB are not repeating Geoff Johns' words "You can't have GA without BC" for fun.  I expect her to be a regular in S6 even if it is not a 23 episode contract.  I think bringing her in now was to tie into the video games being released with BC but I don't see them not signing her after giving her a comic background, finding her a place to live, and giving her a job.  As maddening as WM's interviews are she hasn't ever lied that I can recall.  In one interview she basically said BC is always going to be there.  If they don't sign her as a regular on Arrow or across the universe (Flash being the only other one I could see her showing up in) she might become unavailable similar to what happened with Wildcat.  We try for BC 5? 

She could (not saying she will) be announced as early as Paleyfest in mid-March.  She will have appeared in 6 episodes by then, assuming she's in 5.15. If Adrian Chase is revealed as Vigilante and taken down by Diggle & friends in 5.15 it might free up a spot without raising any questions.  

[Trisha]

7 hours ago, Sunshine said:

I think the Oliver/Thea scene is probably going to be along the lines of him being a good mayor and that Moira would be proud.  Thea could be getting ready to tell Oliver the truth about Susan when something happens to her. Or she could be confronting Susan when something happens.  There are photos of a wrecked limo that started showing up around 5.15.  In 5.15 Vigilante attacks Oliver as Mayor.  I guess I'm wondering if Thea was in the limo.  WM does say in her word salad that things get dicey for Thea.  The whole thing could happen with Thea being shown getting into the limo in 5.14.  In 5.15 Oliver finds out and anything about Thea is just exposition to others.

Did the pic that SA posted in which someone appeared to be lying on his office couch come from 515? I thought it was from 513, but if not it might be Thea recovering from getting hurt. (Though if that pic was from the last ep, I have no idea who/what he thought he had to blur out.)

[Sunshine]

I think it was from 5.13 but I don't remember any shots of Oliver sitting at the desk in front of a computer either.  WH might have been taking a nap or maybe his daughter was on set while they were rehearsing.  

[EmilyBettFan]

The only interesting BC was Sara. These other two brought nothing new to the table.

[Morrigan2575]

6 hours ago, Sunshine said:

As much as I might like to believe otherwise, TPTB are not repeating Geoff Johns' words "You can't have GA without BC" for fun.  

No, they're repeating it because WB pushed Dinah on them which is why they're using the same talking point.

[tv echo]

9 hours ago, way2interested said:

Yeah, a lot of props to her being pretty understanding about what's going on with her abrupt introduction and not calling out any side of the fandom. Although I find it funny that she said that Oliver is "teaching her lessons from the heart" when besides her actual introduction, her only interaction with Oliver so far was her giving him a lecture about matters more related to the heart and then having personal conversations with Diggle (and then possibly Felicity in 514) and then probably not as much time with Oliver while Oliver deals with whatever Vigilante/Prometheus/Susan/Felicity's secret plot eruption that probably happens in 515. Not saying it won't happen, just amused at the idea of Oliver doing anything like that in general while everything else is going on.

Unless JH knows something that we don't (like from future episodes shot but not yet aired) - or unless she is doing that own head canon thing that KC did.

7 hours ago, Sunshine said:

As much as I might like to believe otherwise, TPTB are not repeating Geoff Johns' words "You can't have GA without BC" for fun.  I expect her to be a regular in S6 even if it is not a 23 episode contract.  I think bringing her in now was to tie into the video games being released with BC but I don't see them not signing her after giving her a comic background, finding her a place to live, and giving her a job.  As maddening as WM's interviews are she hasn't ever lied that I can recall.  In one interview she basically said BC is always going to be there.  If they don't sign her as a regular on Arrow or across the universe (Flash being the only other one I could see her showing up in) she might become unavailable similar to what happened with Wildcat.  We try for BC 5? 

Arguably, WM lied - or at least misled - when she said: " I can definitely tell you that there's a way we're going to bring [Katie Cassidy/Laurel] back and she's going to be alive and well. And Flashpoint might have a little bit to do with that."  (Oct. 2, 2016 TV Guide article, page 45 of Spoilers thread)

Edited February 20, 2017 by tv echo

[Velocity23]

3 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Unless JH knows something that we don't (like from future episodes shot but not yet aired) - or unless she is doing that own head canon thing that KC did.

7 hours ago, Sunshine said:

Most likely not. Someone who might have insight is SA, but not a newbie. And i honestly it will amount to anything solidifying the team dynamic. Or the scene might have already happened. 

[tv echo]

Don't know how reliable this is ... But I am starting to feel genuinely worried that TPTB are stupid enough to get rid of Felicity at the end of this season, so that next season they can have the team focused on Oliver, Tinah and Diggle, with Curtis providing tech support. The O/F chemistry so far surpasses anything else, that they almost have to remove Felicity in order for Oliver to have a believably serious romance with anyone else.  

Edited February 20, 2017 by tv echo

[Sunshine]

1 hour ago, Morrigan2575 said:

No, they're repeating it because WB pushed Dinah on them which is why they're using the same talking point.

I am aware of that. It's IMO a strange talking point if she's going bye bye at the end of the season. 

[Sunshine]

22 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Unless JH knows something that we don't (like from future episodes shot but not yet aired) - or unless she is doing that own head canon thing that KC did.

Arguably, WM lied - or at least misled - when she said: " I can definitely tell you that there's a way we're going to bring [Katie Cassidy/Laurel] back and she's going to be alive and well. And Flashpoint might have a little bit to do with that."  (Oct. 2, 2016 TV Guide article, page 45 of Spoilers thread)

To me more a mislead than a lie.

[Velocity23]

5 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

I am aware of that. It's IMO a strange talking point if she's going bye bye at the end of the season. 

I wonder how the reason it. Do they mean an alive BC is important to have in the universe. Who can pop up from time to time.  But that brings the implication that KCs BC wasnt up to the image of BC WB/DC wanted. So they started again giving the new BC Sara traits.

Edited February 20, 2017 by Velocity23

[Morrigan2575]

5 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

I am aware of that. It's IMO a strange talking point if she's going bye bye at the end of the season. 

Never said she was. Just saying that there is a difference between wanting Tinah on the show and being pushed to put Tinah on the show. The first one might result in them totally changing directions (again) as I believe you're suggesting and killing their established OTP in favor of a noobie. The latter is more likely to involve keeping her around to be another mask.

[Morrigan2575]

33 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Arguably, WM lied - or at least misled - when she said: " I can definitely tell you that there's a way we're going to bring [Katie Cassidy/Laurel] back and she's going to be alive and well. And Flashpoint might have a little bit to do with that."  (Oct. 2, 2016 TV Guide article, page 45 of Spoilers thread)

I don't think it was a lie, trying to be coy without revealing it was BS. Perhaps their original plan was to have BS or TA claim Flashpoint brought LL back to life but someone realized it wouldn't work so it later got changed to LoT/time travel. 

Quote

Unless JH knows something that we don't (like from future episodes shot but not yet aired) - or unless she is doing that own head canon thing that KC did.

I'll be the bad person, JH reminds me a LOT of KC in the worse ways (SM stuff). So yeah, I think she's making stuff up to build up interest in GA/BC as LI so she can secure a good permanent role on Arrow. I also don't think her accidental likes/retweets of Felicity bashing articles are as innocent as others seem to believe. 

Edited February 20, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[apinknightmare]

26 minutes ago, tv echo said:

But I am starting to feel genuinely worried that TPTB are stupid enough to get rid of Felicity at the end of this season, so that next season they can have the team focused on Oliver, Tinah and Diggle, with Curtis providing tech support.

Or maybe Emily already filmed her parts for 18 and she'll do her work on 19 next week.

[Sunshine]

1 minute ago, Velocity23 said:

I wonder how the reason it. Do they mean an alive BC is important to have in the universe. Who can pop up from time to time. 

Could be.  As someone with no industry knowledge other than what I have read here, if she's not signed to a regular contract then she may not be available to pop up from time to time.  It doesn't have to be for 23 episodes.

[Velocity23]

28 minutes ago, tv echo said:

 

Don't know how reliable this is ... But I am starting to feel genuinely worried that TPTB are stupid enough to get rid of Felicity at the end of this season, so that next season they can have the team focused on Oliver, Tinah and Diggle, with Curtis providing tech support. The O/F chemistry so far surpasses anything else, that they almost have to remove Felicity in order for Oliver to have a believably serious romance with anyone else.  

 

Emily always had shorter days than the actors whose characters are masks. She usually only films 3-4 days per episode. Also David Ramsey and EBR were both in LA on Friday. Doesnt really mean much in terms of screentime.  I did hear Carly Pope was filming on Thursday. 

[Morrigan2575]

4 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Or maybe Emily already filmed her parts for 18 and she'll do her work on 19 next week.

Most likely. As has been mentioned (repeatedly) before, EBR films 3-4 days per episode. 

[way2interested]

27 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Unless JH knows something that we don't (like from future episodes shot but not yet aired) - or unless she is doing that own head canon thing that KC did.

Even if she does know something for the future, say 516-518, we're not even going to see it until about two months after her character's been introduced and about a month after this interview (thanks to the probable hiatus), which is what I find funny, along with trying to picture Oliver, the person in a relationship with Susan and SA's acting as Oliver this year, teaching lessons from the heart.

[Sunshine]

9 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Never said she was. Just saying that there is a difference between wanting Tinah on the show and being pushed to put Tinah on the show. The first one might result in them totally changing directions (again) as I believe you're suggesting and killing their established OTP in favor of a noobie. The latter is more likely to involve keeping her around to be another mask.

Okay. I wasn't even thinking in terms of OTP, just her presence on the show in general.  I haven't seen anything in show or heard any PR to suggest otherwise.

[statsgirl]

It's not an unreasonable fear, that the show would get rid of Felicity to make an Oliver/Dinah pairing.  But I think it's unlikely because Hollywood is about the bottom line and it would be a bad business decision to tank something as successful as Olicity,  a big part of making the show, because the comic books paired Oliver with Black Canary.

On the other hand, we're probably stuck with her on the Team.

Edited February 20, 2017 by statsgirl

[lemotomato]

10 hours ago, Sunshine said:

As maddening as WM's interviews are she hasn't ever lied that I can recall.

Here's a list of examples of WM equivocating, if not quite lying.

Edited February 20, 2017 by lemotomato

[LadyChaos]

In  my mind a revolving cast not only makes sense, but actually honors the comics better. From my understanding a lot of these characters, even BC, was prone to a lot of coming and going. Also, wasn't the whole point of the noobs was so Oliver had help and didn't need to be out every night? So wouldn't it make sense that the team rotateed and had people that took nights off, or people that had solid smaller missions for intel? 

It seems awfully stupid for them to ALL be out on the street at the same time so much.......

Dont know why that never posted earlier yesterday.....but whatever.....

 

As to FS being killed off..... nope I think even tptb know a great deal of their draw if from stringing the Olicity ship along....However, I could see her being kidnapped at the end of s5 and Oliver thinking she's dead..... so he tries to move on again with Dinah only to find out she's alive and he needs to save her..... I actually expected them to do that at the end of s3 or 4.... as their Olicity cockblock tactic.

[Starfish35]

22 minutes ago, LadyChaos said:

Dont know why that never posted earlier yesterday.....but whatever..

It posted.  It's on the last page.

[LadyChaos]

21 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

It posted.  It's on the last page.

Weird I didn't see it, and it kept coming up on my phone in my reply box..... oh well .... don't care

[statsgirl]

Oliver thought that Felicity was dead to him this season and tried to move on with Susan and we all see how well that is working out in terms of audience interest.

The ratings probably will be down to 0.5 by the end of the season but if MG wants to see them down to .4 or lower, I think  Oliver/Dinah would be the way to do it.

[finnaire]

Crackpot theory time.  So, the team finds something out and keeps the secret from Oliver.  We know Felicity is hiding the Pandora stick from everyone so it's conceivable they find out about it and that’s the big secret.  But, is that such a big deal?  Would it be that big of a deal to Oliver? He wouldn't’ like it but would he get that bent about it?Especially when taking into consideration the epicness of prior secrets that have been kept and revealed.  The only time he got really hurt and angry was when he found out MM was Thea’s father and he held that against Moira.

So, do we know any other secrets?  We keeping being  reminded that Felicity is trying to track down Prometheus’s mother.  Maybe it's her identity that they keep secret from him.  If so, it means her identity is meaningful, important, shocking and/or disastrous.  Could Moira be Prometheus’s mother?

[way2interested]

Just now, finnaire said:

Crackpot theory time.  So, the team finds something out and keeps the secret from Oliver.  We know Felicity is hiding the Pandora stick from everyone so it's conceivable they find out about it and that’s the big secret.  But, is that such a big deal?  Would it be that big of a deal to Oliver? He wouldn't’ like it but would he get that bent about it?Especially when taking into consideration the epicness of prior secrets that have been kept and revealed.  The only time he got really hurt and angry was when he found out MM was Thea’s father and he held that against Moira.

So, do we know any other secrets?  We keeping being  reminded that Felicity is trying to track down Prometheus’s mother.  Maybe it's her identity that they keep secret from him.  If so, it means her identity is meaningful, important, shocking and/or disastrous.  Could Moira be Prometheus’s mother?

I think it was implied that Felicity/the team finds out that Susan is indeed shady and they might keep that secret from Oliver in 515 while Oliver still might not know about Pandora come 515 (so that could still be the secret but idk). Although, tbh, keeping a secret about Prometheus would be more interesting than the secret actually ending up being about Susan. 

[Belinea]

Maybe Felicity's storyline will last up until 5x20 because she will have 2 scenes here and there ;-) Didn't they just release the title of 5x18? Also does SA typically work on Monday? For some reason I thought he doesn't this season. But that could just be my weird brain making things up.

[LeighAn]

7 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

 

I'll be the bad person, JH reminds me a LOT of KC in the worse ways (SM stuff). So yeah, I think she's making stuff up to build up interest in GA/BC as LI so she can secure a good permanent role on Arrow. I also don't think her accidental likes/retweets of Felicity bashing articles are as innocent as others seem to believe. 

I'll be a bad person as well. She's totally thirsty for attention and being the female lead. 

Which is why I want to kiss Stephen for looking as interactive as a dead fish whenever he is in scenes with her ha. 

[statsgirl]

I think SA negotiated to have most Mondays off this season.

If the the team is hiding something from Oliver, it makes more sense that it's about Susan, who he is being an idiot about, than Pandora.  I think if Diggle were concerned about what Felicity is doing, he'd go straight to Oliver whereas I can see Thea telling them that Oliver's not going to listen to anything against Susan, she's already tried.

[insomniadreams88]

3 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

If the the team is hiding something from Oliver, it makes more sense that it's about Susan, who he is being an idiot about, than Pandora.  I think if Diggle were concerned about what Felicity is doing, he'd go straight to Oliver whereas I can see Thea telling them that Oliver's not going to listen to anything against Susan, she's already tried.

True. It might also depend on what they find out about Susan if it's about her. They might not think they have enough to tell Oliver just yet/get him to listen to logic, but then he finds out another way that they're looking into her, leading to a discussion about Pandora (maybe Felicity finds something on her using it?), etc. 

[apinknightmare]

The team is going to hide info about Shady Susie because they suspect that the "real" Oliver has been kidnapped and locked in a trunk and that HTOliver is making dumb decisions to ruin real Oliver's life and they don't want HTOliver to know what they know about what she knows. #fact

 

 

[Morrigan2575]

Oh oh oh I know why we haven't seen Prometheus is awhile. Prometheus is Evil E2 Oliver and he wants to make 'Good' E1 Oliver suffer. So Prometheus locked Oliver in a closet and has taken over his life and is making totally stupid decisions for funsies!

The when 'Oliver' has totally made the dumbest decision possible, E2 will release E1 and go back into his Prometheus Rags. Meanwhile Oliver's all like what do you mean I slept with Susan? What do you mean I told people to stop covering up Billy's death? What do you mean I drove Thea away? ?

[calliope1975]

You don't even know how sad I'm going to be when Real!Oliver locked in a basement doesn't happen. I'm going to be devastated. I may head canon it anyway since it makes so much more sense than what's on my screen. 

Will people want to impeach Oliver as Mayor because he's incompetent, because of ties to Russia, because he has to always bail mysteriously on meetings, or because of his lame, ineffective gun bill? So many options!

[insomniadreams88]

14 minutes ago, Balaclava said:

The only problem is no sane person in Star City would want to be mayor. But yeah, Oliver Queen as mayor has not been impressive thus far.

And why not let her choose her own codename when she's ready? Or maybe at least let her have some input?

[apinknightmare]

Just now, calliope1975 said:

Will people want to impeach Oliver as Mayor because he's incompetent, because of ties to Russia, because he has to always bail mysteriously on meetings, or because of his lame, ineffective gun bill? So many options!

It's weird, because I thought his nondescript gun bill was a win? No one's expressed dissatisfaction about his job lately? Maybe Shady Susie finally decided to write the article she weirdly had a moratorium on.

[calliope1975]

1 minute ago, insomniadreams88 said:

And why not let her choose her own codename when she's ready? Or maybe at least let her have some input?

I want Tinah to find out how they want to Single White Female her into the BC role and nope right on outta town. 

[way2interested]

Just now, insomniadreams88 said:

And why not let her choose her own codename when she's ready? Or maybe at least let her have some input?

Because it was honoring Laurel's final words and they>anyone else's feelings.

[apinknightmare]

That quote makes the whole replacement Black Canary/replacement vagina thing even more gross than it was before, and it was already pretty gross.

[Midnight Lullaby]

So she has no choice in the matter? It feels like when kids name puppies or dolls.

Edited February 20, 2017 by Midnight Lullaby

[Morrigan2575]

4 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

That quote makes the whole replacement Black Canary/replacement vagina thing even more gross than it was before, and it was already pretty gross.

I'm curious as to who says the Black Canary line? First parts sounds like Diggle but is he talking to Oliver or Felicity?