Spoiler Discussion Thread

[statsgirl]

They changed the code for the bunker after they found out that Evelyn defected so maybe they needed BS to break in.

Other than that, Prometheus wants to torture Oliver, so what better than to have him believe Laurel is really alive after all only to find out she isn't, and the person pretending to be her is helping to take him down?

[apinknightmare]

8 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

She won't have actually done anything that bad so Oliver won't look like a complete idiot (only 99% an idiot instead of 100%) for looking for a piece of LL in her?

There's no way for him not to look like an idiot for that regardless, because the Laurel he knew is a completely different person. Like, he should be talking about wanting to find some "good" in her, maybe. Looking for a piece of E1 Laurel in a person who looks like her but is not her? Dumb.

Edited December 30, 2016 by apinknightmare

[Chaser]

There is no way this isn't deeply stupid.

[insomniadreams88]

I feel like we're putting more thought and trying to find more logic in this than the writers. 

[BkWurm1]

2 hours ago, insomniadreams88 said:

I feel like we're putting more thought and trying to find more logic in this than the writers. 

So just another normal day in the forums! :)

Edited December 30, 2016 by BkWurm1

[Cleanqueen]

Hey at least we've managed to not talk about Tina for a couple of days.....;)

[Chaser]

If one of Felicity's cohorts is Bravta, I hope Felicity takes down Reporter in ep12. It would be kind of amusing. Olicity knocking out each other's Temps.

[insomniadreams88]

10 minutes ago, Chaser said:

If one of Felicity's cohorts is Bravta, I hope Felicity takes down Reporter in ep12. It would be kind of amusing. Olicity knocking out each other's Temps.

I do and I don't want this. I'm actually torn about that. 

Also, when Diggle gets out of prison, I hope he fires all of Oliver's security detail. Still can't believe Oliver was okay with them telling a reporter his schedule. 

[arjumand]

11 hours ago, calliope1975 said:

Can Oliver boink the reporter in this episode as well, so we can get all the stupidity out of the way? I'd like a return to at least semi-smart Oliver.

OMG I think I got it! Her vagina is draining all the intelligence out of him! That's why when he saw a dead person in the lair he just blinked a little with that dumb look on his face! And now, if he keeps banging her, we'll have a legitimate reason for Oliver being the dumbest moron who ever moroned going forward. 

. . . I'll see myself out.

[LeighAn]

4 hours ago, Cleanqueen said:

Hey at least we've managed to not talk about Tina for a couple of days.....;)

Praise Jesus!

[Trisha]

10 hours ago, ComicFan777 said:

I think sending E2 LL to the lair is just a power play - Prometheus wants to mess with Oliver and this is another way for him to demonstrate that he knows Oliver very well and can make him miserable whenever he wants to.  At the same time, it is a reminder that yet again, another person close to Oliver had their life ruined because they were associated with him.

I think this is it. In the new promo Oliver says something about ruining the lives of everyone he cares about (at first I thought they were just replaying dialogue from the last ep, but when I rewound to watch the bizarre face-caressing again, I noticed he's wearing a suit when he says it instead of the Arrow costume so it's a new scene). So Prometheus has probably just created this (way too convoluted) plan to mess with him, and we're supposed to think that Oliver's grief is clouding his judgement.

10 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

She won't have actually done anything that bad so Oliver won't look like a complete idiot (only 99% an idiot instead of 100%) for looking for a piece of LL in her?

On the Flash she was basically just Zoom's lackey. She used her scream to take down a building but Barry got everyone out before it came down. I don't think she actually killed anyone (onscreen at least). But Oliver is still going to look like an idiot for trying to bring out the "Laurel" in her. The Flash has repeatedly stressed that other Earth counterparts aren't the same people, and it's dangerous to try to see the one you love in them. My guess is the writers are hoping people don't watch the Flash, but somehow still have a passing knowledge of who Black Siren is? Which is dumb. 

[tv echo]

16 hours ago, Chaser said:

Lol. How do I put this.....? In a season we are told just how important Laurel was, specifically to Oliver, they write an episode where Oliver gets duped by fakeLaurel. Hahaha. Yep. They were so close. Knew each other so well. It's like a backhanded compliement to Ollie/Laurel fans. 

Contrary to what we're expected to believe, Oliver and Laurel never did know each other that well - maybe they did as teens, but their present day versions were practically strangers.  If Laurel knew Oliver so well, then she would've been the first person to suspect that Oliver was the Hood in S1. If Oliver knew Laurel so well, then he would never be fooled by Fake BS Laurel. Just from the promos, even I can tell there's something off in her facial expression.

I also saw the Arrow 510 promo (during the LoT rerun last night) where it did not spoil the Black Siren reveal, but instead ended with 'Laurel' putting up a hand to cradle the side of Oliver's face (similar to what Laurel did in one episode last season). I thought that 'Laurel' looked calculating, while Oliver looked like he was in pain. I wish I could find a video of it online.

Regarding Felicity's cohorts, I'm reminded of a Person of Interest episode where Root collected several computer hackers who had been protected by Finch/Reese in past seasons to help her save the Machine. So I'm wondering if Felicity has some hacking buddies from her past that she can contact.

Edited December 30, 2016 by tv echo

[Sunshine]

That's what I'm expecting, Felicity and a couple of random characters from her "past" similar to Diggle's army platoon. I will be pleasantly surprised if her cohorts are more than that. Although if she's targeting Prometheus she is going to need someone to actually go after him.

[Primal Slayer]

Well TheCWs spoilering paid off for them (for now), 5x10 is the 2nd most viewed promo for the season.

[Chaser]

With BS being a Flash villain, I wonder if they spoiled to get the The Flash viewers over.

[ComicFan777]

I noticed in binge-watching yesterday that the dark web was mentioned/implied at least twice - in bratva flashback where bratva got an IP and took over a website on the dark web, and in olicity flashback where Felicity mentioned something about how she knows how to find info on the "internet" aka dark web...maybe these mentions might be little hints pointing towards some of Felicity's cohorts being connected to the dark web and bratva.

Edited December 30, 2016 by ComicFan777

[apinknightmare]

29 minutes ago, Chaser said:

With BS being a Flash villain, I wonder if they spoiled to get the The Flash viewers over.

I think they probably spoiled because they figured that an evil not-Laurel coming back and duping the team would generate more buzz than real Laurel coming back from the dead. 

[lemotomato]

1 hour ago, Primal Slayer said:

Well TheCWs spoilering paid off for them (for now), 5x10 is the 2nd most viewed promo for the season.

Interesting, considering that it hasn't been posted by the show's official twitter account and was only just posted to the CW's youtube account yesterday. By what metric is it the 2nd most viewed promo for the season?

[Primal Slayer]

It's only 21k behind the premiere trailer on YT. But most of Arrow/Flarrowverse most viewed videos come from being posted before the official twitter/yt even bother.

[insomniadreams88]

I do wonder what the official description will be now that the CW spoiled it's Black Siren. Or will they pretend that it could still be Laurel in the description? 

[Primal Slayer]

I dont know why they havent bothered releasing it yet if they were going to release the promo in the first place. But since they cut that new trailer to not be so obvious, I am thinking the description will follow suit.

[way2interested]

It's usually a 3 week pattern, with the descriptions for the week's episodes coming 3 weeks before the episodes air on a Thursday night, so the descriptions will probably come out on Jan 5th. Although, I'm still betting that it's going to match apinknightmare's description spec, despite the spoiler.

Edited December 30, 2016 by way2interested

[LeighAn]

Let's see whether YouTube promo views translates to ratings. 

[apinknightmare]

Yeah, I think it's safe to say there's probably some repeat viewing going on, as I would expect whenever something "big" is revealed.

[bijoux]

2 hours ago, Trisha said:

I think this is it. In the new promo Oliver says something about ruining the lives of everyone he cares about (at first I thought they were just replaying dialogue from the last ep, but when I rewound to watch the bizarre face-caressing again, I noticed he's wearing a suit when he says it instead of the Arrow costume so it's a new scene). So Prometheus has probably just created this (way too convoluted) plan to mess with him, and we're supposed to think that Oliver's grief is clouding his judgement.

Didn't he say that in his scene with Susan when he was wearing a suit? It's only now hitting me that putting on his suit after taking off the GA suit is actually totally weird considering it was already late. Did he care enough to fool her that he was working late in his mayoral capacity? Was he actually smart and cautious around a reporter?

Nah.

[insomniadreams88]

27 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Didn't he say that in his scene with Susan when he was wearing a suit? It's only now hitting me that putting on his suit after taking off the GA suit is actually totally weird considering it was already late. Did he care enough to fool her that he was working late in his mayoral capacity? Was he actually smart and cautious around a reporter?

Nah.

No, I feel like they're just putting Oliver in a suit as much as they can this season to remind us that he's mayor. Since, you know, he's not actually doing his job as mayor all that often. But that way, they can say, "See, he was working because he's in a suit. So he was coming from doing work that we're not showing him doing." 

[Belinea]

56 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

But since they cut that new trailer to not be so obvious,

Is that new promo the same running time? Because maybe they just cut two different promos. One extended one and a shorter one...Maybe.

I always feel as though these people who run the promo department have been spoiling stuff since the beginning of time and rarely care about what they give away...Which might not be true but it still feels that way to me.

[statsgirl]

The two promos are so close in length that it feels like the first one a mistake that spoiled more than they wanted since they've changed the ending now.

1 hour ago, bijoux said:

Didn't he say that in his scene with Susan when he was wearing a suit? It's only now hitting me that putting on his suit after taking off the GA suit is actually totally weird considering it was already late. Did he care enough to fool her that he was working late in his mayoral capacity? Was he actually smart and cautious around a reporter?

Yes, that probably came from his scene with Susan.

I took it that even though he got cuddles and affirmation from every damn person in that bunker that he was such a good person, including Felicity who should have been the one getting the hugs, he still felt bad about killing Billy and put on his outside clothes that he'd worn from work to the bunker and went to Susan so she could make him feel all better.

Then after "Oliver didn't sleep with Susan", he returned to the bunker (is he still living there?  wouldn't anyone in the mayor's office or the press corps have noticed that the mayor doesn't have a home address?*) and saw "Laurel".

* I always thought that the road to good writing involved writing a complete vision of your characters so that they make sense as a total picture.  I guess the Arrow writers room disagrees.

3 hours ago, Sunshine said:

That's what I'm expecting, Felicity and a couple of random characters from her "past" similar to Diggle's army platoon. I will be pleasantly surprised if her cohorts are more than that. Although if she's targeting Prometheus she is going to need someone to actually go after him.

Thanks for the warning.  I'll prepare myself for the cries of "Why do we get Felicity and her Former Friends Show?" when no one said a work about Diggle's platoon.

[insomniadreams88]

3 hours ago, Sunshine said:

That's what I'm expecting, Felicity and a couple of random characters from her "past" similar to Diggle's army platoon. I will be pleasantly surprised if her cohorts are more than that. Although if she's targeting Prometheus she is going to need someone to actually go after him.

If this is the case, I wonder if we'll even see these people or if they'll do everything on the computer. The more I think about it, the more I get this sinking feeling that Felicity's arc is going to end up being more about the others' reactions (particularly Oliver's) to it. 

[Mrs. de Winter]

8 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

The more I think about it, the more I get this sinking feeling that Felicity's arc is going to end up being more about the others' reactions (particularly Oliver's) to it. 

The one thing that makes me think Felicity's new crew will not just be hackers is that it will not allow for suitable moral outrage from Oliver and crew (e.g., WD) - as opposed to her hooking up with someone like Vigilante which can be all about Oliver's massive feelings of betrayal when Felicity chooses to work with someone like him but not him. 

The one thing I think you can count on is that it will not amount to much of a story for Felicity - there are still three noobies in masks and one more (likely) mask coming - and they will all get screen time and stories long before Felicity (not to mention having to give time to the flashbacks, the reporter/great love affair, the continuing canonization of LL, fleeting moments of Thea and Lance, Diggle's trial (or whatever), etc).

[Velocity23]

Well it seems they are going to push through reporter/Oliver through the sweeps.  Just as expected. 

Edited December 30, 2016 by Velocity23

[statsgirl]

The one consistent thing about these show runners is how well they manage to piss off fans.

25 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

The more I think about it, the more I get this sinking feeling that Felicity's arc is going to end up being more about the others' reactions (particularly Oliver's) to it. 

A forensic psychologist once told me that the best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour.

[Velocity23]

That sounds too tiring for me. So i rather watch and see. 

[ComicFan777]

Earlier in the season, Felicity specifically said that he never talked to her about his time in Russia (he did proceed to mention a tiny bit about it, but not much).  It would really bother me if Oliver ended up pouring his heart out and telling Susan everything about Russia.

[insomniadreams88]

Those quotes from WM annoy me. But I guess it's nice that Oliver cares about someone since he doesn't seem to care about anyone on the team right now. (Going back to my earlier post about how he hasn't helped any of them.)

You know, if Susan really cared about Oliver, she'd tell him about the photo she has, warn him that others could find it too and give him everything she has on him. I really don't want this storyline to end with everyone feeling bad for Oliver because, like he has been this entire season, he's being an idiot, but it looks like it's going to. "Oh, poor Oliver. You trusted the wrong person. There was no way for you to know ... except she did it to Thea. And she's a reporter. But you still couldn't have known."

9 minutes ago, Mrs. de Winter said:

The one thing I think you can count on is that it will not amount to much of a story for Felicity - there are still three noobies in masks and one more (likely) mask coming - and they will all get screen time and stories long before Felicity (not to mention having to give time to the flashbacks, the reporter/great love affair, the continuing canonization of LL, fleeting moments of Thea and Lance, Diggle's trial (or whatever), etc).

Exactly. And it'll probably be used to stall an Oliver/Felicity reunion even more. 

[Belinea]

Do they really believe that people are into that storyline? It doesn't even interest me from the journalist angle at this point. 

And since when do they care for each other and have a genuine relationship. Was I watching the show wrong again? Sometimes it baffles me that they tell this weird story for their characters and no viewer has any connection to it.

At this point the show really lost me. I am not excited for anything. Even if they intend to get Oliver and Felicity back together at some point, they kind of damaged it for me. I don't feel the same enthusiasm and excitement I once did. 

[apinknightmare]

2 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

You know, if Susan really cared about Oliver, she'd tell him about the photo she has, warn him that others could find it too and give him everything she has on him. I really don't want this storyline to end with everyone feeling bad for Oliver because, like he has been this entire season, he's being an idiot, but it looks like it's going to. "Oh, poor Oliver. You trusted the wrong person. There was no way for you to know ... except she did it to Thea. And she's a reporter. But you still couldn't have known."

I don't think there's going to be anything to feel bad for him about - SA pretty much spoiled that she isn't going to use the info against him. 

[Velocity23]

Did he? Werent they filming 5x09 at that time? I would not be sure the betrayal isnt happening after 5x11. 

[insomniadreams88]

7 minutes ago, ComicFan777 said:

Earlier in the season, Felicity specifically said that he never talked to her about his time in Russia (he did proceed to mention a tiny bit about it, but not much).  It would really bother me if Oliver ended up pouring his heart out and telling Susan everything about Russia.

Oh, I will rage if that happens. But (again), I have a sinking feeling that may have been foreshadowing him opening up about Russia - just not to the right person. 

You know, this just reminds me of when Diggle told Oliver in 3x23, "You trusted Malcolm Merlyn more than you did the two people closest to you!" Just replace Malcolm's name with Susan, and there you go. 

[apinknightmare]

Just now, Velocity23 said:

Did he? Werent they filming 5x09 at that time? I would not be sure the betrayal isnt happening after 5x11. 

I think he did, yeah. I'm guessing he was pretty confident that this isn't another Isabel type situation since he said something about it, and I imagine that he of all people would get an idea from the producers about where this is going, even if they hadn't actually written it out yet. 

I think he's going to find out that she knows stuff, and that there's going to be some "dilemma" over sharing it, but she ultimately won't because of her ~feels. 

I'd love to be wrong about it though. 

[Mrs. de Winter]

12 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Exactly. And it'll probably be used to stall an Oliver/Felicity reunion even more.

Given Oliver's new love for the reporter and his concern for and trust in her (and his lack of real concern for both Diggle and Felicity) I am fine if they never reunite.  Felicity deserves far better than a box of rocks like Oliver who she cannot count on when her world is in pieces.  And at this point I am thinking that might be what WM and Co want. 

The one thing I will never not be pissed about when it comes to this show is them removing Felicity and Diggle's friendship in the name of all of the new masks (LL included).

[Trisha]

36 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Yes, that probably came from his scene with Susan.

No, he was standing when he said it in the new promo so I'm pretty sure it's from the next ep. I think they're just getting him to say "I ruin the lives of all around me" as much as possible this season. 

14 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Well it seems they are going to push through reporter/Oliver through the sweeps.  Just as expected. 

What makes you think so? I feel like she's done after the Bratva ep. 

[way2interested]

I'm wondering though if all of this relationship stuff is just going to be stuffed into 512 before any Bratva reveal or if Susan is actually lasting further than 512. She's not in 510, and 511 is probably more focused on the road trip/establishing Tina, so I guess all of this "Susan asking questions" and "them going through physically and emotionally dangerous territory" might just be the main plot of 512? 

[Velocity23]

For me its the timing of the episode. 5x09 is around the time they were getting the first feedback in term of ratings and response. And it looked like the reporter/Oliver hook up in 5x09 was pushed back. 

 

1 minute ago, Trisha said:

What makes you think so? I feel like she's done after the Bratva ep. 

Just the way it was phrased by Wendy. 5x10 and 5x11 seems to be low on Susan. So i am guessing 5x12 is the hook up episode and probably ends with some kind of Susan reveal. And 5x13- 5x15 will be the aftermath. 

[AyChihuahua]

8 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I don't think there's going to be anything to feel bad for him about - SA pretty much spoiled that she isn't going to use the info against him. 

Magic penis.

Which I still maintain he should have used on Slade/RAG/Darhk. That boner clearly has real power to do good in the world.

[Chaser]

All this Oliver Reporter Stuff may just happen in one episode (like 5x12). Even if it extends past then, I wouldn't be surprised if WM is overselling the hell out of it.

[calliope1975]

Those EP's sure know how to inspire enthusiasm in their viewers! I don't even have any snark left. I'm just bummed now. 

[insomniadreams88]

Maybe Susan lasts past 512 and we're all wrong? Maybe she'll just be off-screen after the ep (while CP is filming Suits) and then come back towards the end of the season? 

[AyChihuahua]

5 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I think he did, yeah. I'm guessing he was pretty confident that this isn't another Isabel type situation since he said something about it, and I imagine that he of all people would get an idea from the producers about where this is going, even if they hadn't actually written it out yet. 

I think he's going to find out that she knows stuff, and that there's going to be some "dilemma" over sharing it, but she ultimately won't because of her ~feels. 

I'd love to be wrong about it though. 

I think SA was either telling us what had been planned from the start or that he'd gotten his way. I'm 99% sure she won't end up betraying Oliver, whatever her original plan was.

[Chaser]

3 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

For me its the timing of the episode. 5x09 is around the time they were getting the first feedback in term of ratings and response. And it looked like the reporter/Oliver hook up in 5x09 was pushed back. 

 

Just the way it was phrased by Wendy. 5x10 and 5x11 seems to be low on Susan. So i am guessing 5x12 is the hook up episode and probably ends with some kind of Susan reveal. And 5x13- 5x15 will be the aftermath. 

They had a focus group arranged early this season, I think they have been paying attention since the premiere. I just think we wouldn't see any major plot changes until later. If we do at all.