Spoiler Discussion Thread

[calliope1975]

2 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

So even being told that there's something coming up for Felicity in 5B doesn't help because of how I'm seeing them treat her character now.

Whatever excitement I had (and it was already low) for Felicity's supposed story line of her own in 5b is long gone. It's quite clear that character is not the focus of this season. I suspect she'll need to do something for plot purposes - maybe Smoak Technologies, maybe something different - but it's not going to be about Felicity. Or only about her in the broadest sense. We might even get that old chestnut of they ran out of time, but watch next season. As always, I'd gladly be proven wrong. 

[Carrie Ann]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

I think they've been listening so hard to people who love this season that they can't hear the people who are disappointed with it.

I actually kind of think the opposite. I mean, they are only RTing the people who love it, obviously, but I think they are quite aware of the complaints, and of course they're aware of their ratings/social media engagement struggles. But right now, I think they are still in anger/resentment mode about all of this, which is why I think SA's reaction was so...reactionary. They're all defensive and dismissive, and it's not productive or effective.

They have always had a PR problem--that's an understatement--but specifically w/r/t the fact that they simply cannot see the show or their representation of it through viewers' eyes. So they pay no attention to how things will feel/seem in the immediate moment, when they know that they will solve those issues 10 episodes down the line or whatever, which is why they're always exasperated, like, "Just trust the show. Just keep watching." But we as viewers have nothing to go on besides what we see on screen, or have seen in the past, and what they say off-screen. And for me, there's been nothing in seven months, on screen or off, to make me feel that trust or any hook to keep me watching (especially when my whole problem is that they just stopped telling the story I care about). I wish they could see that, instead of just seeing "You're mad that Olicity aren't together." No. When it comes to them specifically, I'm mad that the show is ignoring their history and avoiding their feelings about it in the current day, thereby avoiding telling that story altogether, as they have so many times before. But mostly I'm mad at the way PR and the writers and SA have gaslighted people who engaged in that story, by acting like we're ridiculous for not finding O/F's easy-peasy return to just teammates believable or appealing.

One last thing related to that: I find it hilarious that they're hanging the emotional weight of this season entirely on a character that viewers (broadly speaking) famously never quite engaged with--hoping that we did, just enough to feel something when they go on and on about Laurel and her legacy--while dismissing the importance of several other elements that viewers famously did engage with, and rolling their eyes that we bothered to have feelings about them at all. Okay, very logical, great storytelling, perfect PR strategy.

Edited November 20, 2016 by Carrie Ann

[Chaser]

SA doesn't handle criticism well at all. I think right now he is basking in the glow of all those comic fans who yelled at him last season now saying the show is the best ever. Right now the dissatisfaction is coming from Olicity fans. I think he misread the fandom the same way the EPs did. SA and the EPs know that Olicity is getting together, it just isn't the story right now. They assumed the fandom would treat it like S3. But the fandom isn't, the fandom got mad and the fandom got vocal in different way. In his typical style, he gets defensive and dismissive. Insulting too.  Dont tell a fan who has put 1000s of dollars into your pocket that it's just a TV Show. 

[looptab]

18 minutes ago, Chaser said:

They assumed the fandom would treat it like S3

That's exactly it. They weren't prepared to this reaction from this subset of fandom.

Edited November 20, 2016 by looptab

[EmilyBettFan]

I'm sorry but I will just say it. It was more Olicity fans than just Arrow fans who got the show trending each week and doing promo for the show on its off months. So don't come at us proclaiming it'a just a show. We very well kept this show on it's legs when it was on hiatus.

[catrox14]

That's a peculiarly testy response from Stephen. He's usually more diplomatic with answers to con goers. For him to refer to Oliver and Felicity as 'canoodling' is really strange, given they were MORE than canoodling. They were actually fools in love and ENGAGED TO BE MARRIED AND LIVING TOGETHER.

IMO, SA's testiness is not directed the audience or shippers but is coming from having to squelch Olicity per a directive from TPTB and to promote 'YAY NOOBS!" 'BOO ROMANCE!". IMO, it's trying to send a message that Olicity is dead and will never to be seen again, either because it IS dead or it's a stall.

l took his  'Be grateful she's not dead' not dismissive but more from a place of sincerity. That maybe the showrunners seriously considered killing both Laurel and Felicity just to stop all the Olicity v Lauriver stuff once and for all. But the optics of killing both of them in subsequent seasons would be too much. Instead of killing her they give Felicity a boyfriend so it puts a wall between her and Oliver. She's been integral to Team Arrow as the tech/comms person but with Curtis' expanding role as both tech guy and masked hero with a name, Felicity is becoming marginalized out of her pivotal role of TA. They have set up a path to actually write Felicity out of the show if they wanted to do it by couching it all around Havenrock, she could finally say I've had enough, leaves town either on her own or with her boyfriend. They will have taken both Felicity and Laurel out of being actual real love interests for Oliver. He can say screw it "I'm never going to be in a relationship again" but he'll sleep around fulfilling the promiscuous Green Arrow of the comics without him being a cheater. 

YMMV and all that.

[Chaser]

Felicity was never on the list for the grave. EBR confirmed that. 

My impression on the 'Felicity isn't dead' comment, is that he mistakenly thought Laurel was the only thing an Olicity fan would worry about and Felicity didn't die, Laurel did. Isn't that a big sign for Olicity?

[apinknightmare]

6 minutes ago, Chaser said:

My impression on the 'Felicity isn't dead' comment, is that he mistakenly thought Laurel was the only thing an Olicity fan would worry about and Felicity didn't die, Laurel did. Isn't that a big sign for Olicity?

I think he just meant that people on the show get killed off a lot, so at least she's still alive. 

[way2interested]

14 minutes ago, Chaser said:

My impression on the 'Felicity isn't dead' comment, is that he mistakenly thought Laurel was the only thing an Olicity fan would worry about and Felicity didn't die, Laurel did. Isn't that a big sign for Olicity?

I didn't get it that way at all. To me, it seemed more like he was saying that there's a difference between not getting things you want and getting things you explicitly don't want. Like, being upset for not getting things you want (Olicity not being together) is less logical than being upset for things that do happen (hypothetically if Felicity died, if Oliver and Felicity were not working together at all, etc.). To an extent, I agree with him, but I also disagree with him (since the part that I don't like about this s5 set-up is the temp LIs, which has less to do with me not getting what I want and more to do with what I was given even though they both fall under the topic of Olicity more or less). It's a bit dismissive sounding because the logic is a bit subjective, but I think I kind of get it.

I didn't love the tone of the answer, but I didn't love the tone of the question either. It was an awkward set-up imo. 

Edited November 20, 2016 by way2interested

[looptab]

There's been a lot of talk lately on how EPs and everyone else seem to be catering and only listening to people enjoying the show right now - and I'm here just waiting for the tables to turn, anticipating that  the people claiming Arrow got back into form will shout that "Olicity fans are responsible and bullied the EPs", and that they pander to Olicity fans,  the moment Oliver and Felicity get back together. 

Edited November 20, 2016 by looptab

[insomniadreams88]

I think it's just easier for them (actors, EPs) to address criticism when they can say, "Oh, you just don't like it because your ship isn't together." 

But O/F aside, did we get anything this weekend about Thea other than maybe suiting up when she has to? About Diggle other than he's still a fugitive (and I have yet to hear anything about that being addressed)? I think they're trying too hard to make us like the new characters (probably why that backstory is coming) and don't realize that focusing on them is a really, really bad idea. 

1 minute ago, looptab said:

There's been a lot of talk lately on how EPs and everyone else seem to be catering and only listening to people enjoying the show right now - and I'm here just waiting for the tables to turn, anticipating that  the people claiming Arrow got back into form will shout that "Olicity fans are responsible and bullied the EPs", and that they pander to Olicity fans,  the moment Oliver and Felicity get back together. 

People are always going to find a way to blame something they don't like for something. 

The thing is, people are going to have to look at when they were in filming episodes compared to what was airing at the time before making any claims as to what caused a change. 

[looptab]

1 minute ago, insomniadreams88 said:

The thing is, people are going to have to look at when they were in filming episodes compared to what was airing at the time before making any claims as to what caused a change. 

Yeah, but, that's never gonna happen. They've been on the record multiple times  saying they expanded Felicity's role basically after Emily's first day, yet you still find people at cons saying that she got more prominent because of the fans. \_(°_°)_/

[insomniadreams88]

3 hours ago, Belinea said:

What kind of shirtless scenes are there to film if it is not a workout scene? Fight, injury or sex scene. How wonderful. 

Getting the Bratva tattoo in a flashback? 

[popgoesculture]

1 hour ago, Chaser said:

Dont tell a fan who has put 1000s of dollars into your pocket that it's just a TV Show. 

Exactly! It's such a bizarre thing to say to someone at a con, who is coming to support you specifically and the show. You're fine with taking money from your fans, but if they express unhappiness with the show, then "it's just a show"? Also his whole demeanor treats the romance angle of the show (one which Arrow has capitalized on from the very beginning) as this unnecessary feminine aspect, and anyone who views it differently doesn't get the point of the show. (Which I guess is Oliver's broodiness/constipation?)

 

58 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I think he just meant that people on the show get killed off a lot, so at least she's still alive. 

Yeah, but the underlying issue with Arrow is that prominent women are killed far more than prominent men. For a show that only has two women regulars, his comment felt particularly tone deaf (given that both WH and EBR have talked about this repeatedly) and rude. Like, "take whatever storyline you can get, because it could be worse... she could be dead. So be happy that we have no idea what Felicity is doing job-wise, or how Thea feels about anything BUT Lance/doing Oliver's work. 

[CabotCove]

3 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

He tells her "you can't always get what you want"

Wise words.

[apinknightmare]

7 minutes ago, popgoesculture said:

Yeah, but the underlying issue with Arrow is that prominent women are killed far more than prominent men. For a show that only has two women regulars, his comment felt particularly tone deaf (given that both WH and EBR have talked about this repeatedly) and rude. Like, "take whatever storyline you can get, because it could be worse... she could be dead. So be happy that we have no idea what Felicity is doing job-wise, or how Thea feels about anything BUT Lance/doing Oliver's work.

Unless I'm misremembering (not watching it again, haha), he also said "Oliver could be dead, the show could be canceled" or something along those lines. He didn't just say that the question asker should be glad Felicity's still alive-seems like he was just pointing out that in the grand scheme of things Oliver and Felicity not being together isn't that big of a deal. 

I do agree that it is tone deaf given the complaints about the show, and wasn't the best example to use.

Edited November 20, 2016 by apinknightmare

[calliope1975]

Felicity's about the only thing keeping me around, so if she was killed off, I could finally be free!!!! :p

[Sunshine]

Wrong thread probably but I really have to wonder how much of the narrative surrounding the show is coming from WB/DC/CW directives and the actors, writers, etc just have to go with it.  WB & DC want to sell merchandise.  CW seems to want the male demo.  What has gotten them the most press - good & bad - the last couple of years - OTA & Olicity of which 2 are original characters not comic characters.  I really have to wonder if after agreeing to Laurel's death they were told to squash the original characters from the discussion and to focus on the comics character.  

[wonderwall]

33 minutes ago, HeroLeague said:

oooh this is a good photo. I'll use it when Oliver/Felicity get back together by the end of Feb sweeps, Thank you! 

Anyways, I wasn't offended by anything Steve said. He could've worded things better but apparently wording things weirdly/badly is the story of every Arrow EP/Steve's life so... 

[dtissagirl]

I saw this on the twitters:

"But don't you still love their scenes together?"

Hahaha, this guy. It's not that I don't like the noromo O/F scenes, Steve. The chemistry is still there, even though you look like you haven't pooped since February. It's that I spend noromo O/F scenes distracted by what isn't there. I don't understand how/why O/F are behaving the way they are. In fact, I spend noromo O/F scenes wondering WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH THEM.

[tv echo]

Here's the original source link for the above post at https://www.facebook.com/OliverNFelicity ...  

Edited November 20, 2016 by tv echo

[tangerine95]

I'm not really enjoying their scenes tbh, the last olicity scene I really enjoyed was their talk in 5.02 They're weird after watching the past 3 seasons and most of them are just about the plot of the week or team stuff. I really don't get how they expected most olicity fans to be satisfied with that after they literally got a proposal last season. Stephen especially really sounds like he thought people will totally love this version of olicity because they were also popular in seasons 1 and 2 when they weren't together but doesn't seem to get that that's because people were waiting on the getting together part lol.its the characters going backwards with no real explanation that's the issue and taints the scenes they have now imo.

Edited November 20, 2016 by tangerine95

[arjumand]

13 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

I saw this on the twitters:

"But don't you still love their scenes together?"

Hahaha, this guy. It's not that I don't like the noromo O/F scenes, Steve. The chemistry is still there, even though you look like you haven't pooped since February. It's that I spend noromo O/F scenes distracted by what isn't there. I don't understand how/why O/F are behaving the way they are. In fact, I spend noromo O/F scenes wondering WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH THEM.

And, for the MILLIONTH TIME, just like Oliver "looks like he hasn't pooped since February" (I love this so much, I want to marry it), Felicity looks like a fucking comic relief pod person! Actually, no - she looks like a Westworld host and her programmer's fingers slipped on the jokey quippy LOOK HOW WACKY I AM slider, and any moment everyone will freeze, the guys in the biohazard suits will come in and adjust her settings.

Even in the crossover trailer everyone's raving about - the same thing: Oliver's looking constipated, Felicity is wacky sidekick redhead in fifties' sitcom.

How about a real emotion, from anyone? Anyone? And before one person says Havenrock, I say fuck that shit. Apparently, one heart-to-heart with Ragkid fixed it. Oliver's feeling his usual early mid-life crisis vigilante blues? Pep talk from sexy reporter fixed it.

No emotions! Emotions are bad. Quipping, that's the ticket. And parachute arrows.

Edited November 20, 2016 by arjumand

[tv echo]

Transcribed from watching video of full SA panel at HVFF-Atlanta...

-- SA: "I have a shirtless scene tomorrow, I think, actually... It's not a workout scene though."

-- SA: "I don't think Oliver is the happiest he's ever been. Certainly not. But I think he's the most [content/intent?] he's ever been because he's found that middle ground, that what he does is not an easy job in this awesome, fantastic, fictional world that we live in, but, you know, if you're going to do it, you have to be prepared to go all the way." 

-- From SA panel at HVFF-Atlanta, in response to fan saying that S5A sometimes feels like a different show with core characters being sidelined, SA: "When you say the first half of Season 5, you've seen seven episodes, so less than a third... It's incredibly important on a TV show that has to produce 23 episodes per year to introduce new characters. Um, and I think that, uh, between Rick and Joe and Madison and Josh, uh, and whomever I'm forgetting, because I'm definitely forgetting somebody, uh, I think we've done a good job of creating new dynamics. Uh, I read a scene in an upcoming episode between Rick Gonzalez and Paul Blackthorne - which is a pairing that I thought I'd never see. And, you know, coming up pretty soon - probably a spoiler alert here - we do get to explore one of the new character's back story through flashbacks, which I always enjoy because I get days off... There's always a soundbite that comes out before a season. 'Back to basics.'.. Going into season 4, people were like, 'lighter tone.' I never totally understood that... I'm very happy with the current season thus far. And I think that, uh - you know, especially with Diggle and Felicity - Felicity especially - Like, there's some loose ends to tie up with David's character before he can move forward, cause he's sorta stuck living in exile at the moment as a felon, so to speak. Um, but in the latter half of the season, there's a really interesting thread for Emily's character and I, uh, think that the fans are really going to enjoy it. So I would just say that, through 7 of 23 episodes, I would say, keep the faith, keep enjoying. But, it is a television show. It is a forward-moving train and you gotta really work to find new characters, find new dynamics, cause, you know, the 12th episode, the favorite stuff that I read was between Rick Gonzalez and Paul Blackthorne. And that stuff's important." 

-- On what he'd like to see for OTA in the 100th episode or the 200th episode, SA: "Oh man, the 200th episode. Hopefully, it's just us sitting around drinking tea. On a vacation together. Diggle's got like a six kids... A full gray beard. Once the flashbacks are done, I can do whatever I want with my facial hair, by the way. Just keep that in mind... Um, there's a fantastic scene in the 100th episode between, uh, Diggle, Oliver and Felicity in the Arrow Bunker-Cave-thingamajig. And, uh, it's an amazing and unexpected and weird scene." 

-- In response to fan asking what he thinks is Oliver's biggest regret, SA: "It probably is not Felicity because he's had literal family members murdered in front of him. Sorry. I think his biggest regret is probably not being able to save his mom. For sure."

-- On what happens after five years of flashbacks, SA: "I think that going forward in Season 6, flashbacks in some way, shape or form, and that sort of - that story within a story, will always be a part of the show. But Oliver's journey and that five years that he was away, and the wig, thank god, after this year, will be retired... Maybe it's a flashforward, maybe there's episodes with no flashbacks. I couldn't tell you. But after this year, and there will be an after this year, despite those epitaphs, there will be some type of change." 

-- In response to fan who's unhappy that there are aliens in Arrow in the big crossover event and that Arrow is getting lost within the bigger DCTV universe, SA said Arrow "started it" and is therefore the "benchmark." He then said that the aliens are "much, much heavier" in Flash and Legends than they are in Arrow. Also SA: "There's a scene in the Queen mansion in the 100th episode that's a scene that, if it weren't for the fact that we involve these fantastical elements, like aliens in the crossover, this is a scene that I never would've got to play. This was a scene that was as cathartic for me personally as it was for Oliver on the screen."

-- In response to Olicity fan who complained about Oliver never apologizing to Felicity for living a double life and planning to marry her and making her a stepparent without her knowledge or consent, and asking if Oliver will ever apologize to her, SA: "I would say that Oliver and Felicity don't lie to each other anymore. I think that's a step in the right direction... I think that he's paying for that, as it is, because they're not together and he clearly would like to be together if all things were equal, so I think that he's being punished for that already." 

-- On whether it's fair and genuine to expect Olicity shippers, this really passionate fanbase that Arrow has built, to root for Oliver and Felicity dating other people, SA: "Sure. I mean, yeah. (Fan asked, 'Why?') Well, because it's a... TV show. (Audience laughs and claps) And here's the thing. I love fandom and I love passionate fandom. And I think that Arrow has awesome, passionate fans. But here's the bottom line. You don't always get what you want. (Audience cheers and claps) I mean, look, sitting here, feeling unhappy about the state of their relationship, they're still functioning as a team. They're still serving a greater good. She could be dead. (Audience laughs) I mean, couldn't she? She could be dead. Oliver could be dead. The show could be off the air. There's a bunch of things. Arrow is so many things. And if you let it just become about one thing, then you forget about the bigger picture. RIght? Does that make sense? (Audience cheers and claps) So I would say that Oliver & Felicity's relationship as it pertains to saving the city has always been more important than their relationship as it just pertains to just - you know, are they,  aren't they, are they canoodling, are they not? So for me, them functioning as a team right now and being honest with each other is super important, and whatever happens with romance is whatever happens. Thank you."

That is such an F.U. to Olicity shippers from SA. His response angered me because it reduced and diminished Olicity shippers to fans who don't care about any aspects of the show other than the romance, which isn't true. He doesn't seem to think that you can care about Olicity and also about other aspects of the show. He incorrectly and unfairly characterizes Olicity shippers as wanting Arrow to only be about the romance, which isn't true.  He's belittling a segment of the fanbase that's supported the show over four seasons. He should know better.

Also the spoiler about Felicity having a "thread" in 5B sounds like a sop.  Oliver's going to be banging the hot new chick in the A plot, but, look over here, you have Felicity with her own 2-minute B or C plot!

After reading the tweets and watching the clips from HVFF, I'm more pessimistic than ever that Olicity will ever reunite as a couple, let alone this season. It just sounds like SA is done with that romance and ready to move on. His telling a fan that there's always hope is just like the way the show kept Lauriver fans hanging on season after season, even though MG already knew that that romance was done after S1.

Edited November 21, 2016 by tv echo

[statsgirl]

There is a (small) part of me that has some sympathy for SA.  I get the feeling that if he could have what he wants, it would be Oliver and Felicity together but the emphasis of the show on Oliver's fighting, basically 4A.  But the EPs screwed up with this season by asking viewers to accept eight new characters at the same time as they broke up Oliver and Felicity and has them dating new characters.  I'm sure in the production offices the theme is "Not a problem., we'll put them back together in the second half of the season and then the viewers will love us again" so he and the writers can't understand why this part of the fandom is so upset.

2 hours ago, Carrie Ann said:

I actually kind of think the opposite. I mean, they are only RTing the people who love it, obviously, but I think they are quite aware of the complaints, and of course they're aware of their ratings/social media engagement struggles. But right now, I think they are still in anger/resentment mode about all of this, which is why I think SA's reaction was so...reactionary. They're all defensive and dismissive, and it's not productive or effective.

BamBam just tweeted out the Ray/Felicity picture as an inducement to watch the 100th. How can the production office still not understand that this is going to piss off the unhappy fans even more?

2 hours ago, catrox14 said:

IMO, SA's testiness is not directed the audience or shippers but is coming from having to squelch Olicity per a directive from TPTB and to promote 'YAY NOOBS!" 'BOO ROMANCE!". IMO, it's trying to send a message that Olicity is dead and will never to be seen again, either because it IS dead or it's a stall.

That and knowing that there will be Olicity to end the season (because I think they have to) so an impatience with us being impatient and not enjoying all the great things on the show right now.

[CabotCove]

Quote

oooh this is a good photo. I'll use it when Oliver/Felicity get back together by the end of Feb sweeps, Thank you! 

Thought so too. Use it however you like, it belongs to the web.

 

Quote

 So I would just say that, through 7 of 23 episodes, I would say, keep the faith, keep enjoying. But, it is a television show. It is a forward-moving train and you really have to work to find new characters, find new dynamics, cause, you know, the 12th episode, the favorite stuff that I read was between Rick Gonzalez and Paul Blackthorne. And that stuff's important." 

cool stuff

Edited November 20, 2016 by HeroLeague

[Midnight Lullaby]

23 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

I saw this on the twitters:

"But don't you still love their scenes together?"

Hahaha, this guy. It's not that I don't like the noromo O/F scenes, Steve. The chemistry is still there, even though you look like you haven't pooped since February. It's that I spend noromo O/F scenes distracted by what isn't there. I don't understand how/why O/F are behaving the way they are. In fact, I spend noromo O/F scenes wondering WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH THEM.

That's how I feel as well. I'm weirded out because they act like they are reliving season 1/2 and it distracts me. Sure the scenes are cute but do they suffer from memory loss? The same goes for Oliver..there are times where I don't recognize him anymore. Watching episode 4 I kept wondering why he was so angry for no apparent reason all the times, LOL. Stuff like that takes me out of the story..

I enjoyed some episodes, sure, but the way the characters behave makes me not really care for their story in general.

[insomniadreams88]

5 minutes ago, tv echo said:

-- In response to Olicity fan who complained about Oliver never apologizing to Felicity for living a double life and planning to marry her and making her a stepparent without her knowledge or consent, and asking if Oliver will ever apologize to her, SA: "I would say that Oliver and Felicity don't lie to each other any more. I think that's a step in the right direction... I think that he's paying for that, as it is, because they're not together and he clearly would like to be together if all things were equal, so I think he's being punished for that already." 

You know what bothers me about this? Felicity still deserves an apology. 

[Mellowyellow]

13 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

 

BamBam just tweeted out the Ray/Felicity picture as an inducement to watch the 100th. How can the production office still not understand that this is going to piss off the unhappy fans even more?

 

Can someone pretty please post these pics? I don't have twitter and don't know how to find them. Plzzzzzzzzz

[apinknightmare]

 

He retweeted this one.

Edited November 20, 2016 by apinknightmare

[HighHopes]

1 minute ago, Mellowyellow said:

Can someone pretty please post these pics? I don't have twitter and don't know how to find them. Plzzzzzzzzz

Originally from GATV, but retweeted by bam. 

[Mellowyellow]

Oh thanks I thought there was a new one! 

[Belinea]

33 minutes ago, HeroLeague said:

 So I would just say that, through 7 of 23 episodes, I would say, keep the faith, keep enjoying. But, it is a television show. It is a forward-moving train and you really have to work to find new characters, find new dynamics, cause, you know, the 12th episode, the favorite stuff that I read was between Rick Gonzalez and Paul Blackthorne. And that stuff's important." 

What kind of an answer is that? It is a television show, I know...Is he basically saying keep hoping it will change (yet it won't cause it is tv) but we are not going back but there will be stuff for characters nobody cares about in hopes that someone will start to care...

I honestly, really honestly would like to know why they all love this season so much. What is their reason? Is it the company line? Yes, the fights are better but everything else is just meh. At least in earlier season you got the feeling that people cared, this time around their is no heart to it. Least of all coherent storytelling. 

Edited November 20, 2016 by Belinea

[Midnight Lullaby]

4 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Oh thanks I thought there was a new one! 

You thought there was more good stuff for your ship....no luck for shippers today! LOL

[dtissagirl]

12 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

You know what bothers me about this? Felicity still deserves an apology. 

I'm so weirded out by his idea that Oliver not being in a relationship with Felicity is a punishment for OLIVER. What about for Felicity? But I'm scared to delve into it, though, because I have a feeling it ends up with Felicity being a meanie.

[Mellowyellow]

1 minute ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

You thought there was more good stuff for your ship....no luck for shippers today! LOL

Haha I was like "ooh so they've pissed everyone off and I'm the lone sucker who is going to enjoy a new Ray/Felicity pic"

No pic for me either!!!!!! 

With my luck there will be no cute Ray/Felicity scene. I'll bow down to them if they manage to f up Olicity and Ray/Felicity in the 100th ep. Come on show I've given you two ships!!! I'm easy to please!

[thenj]

From the Spoiler Thread:

Flashbacks ending and possible flash forwards

Oh God! I can totally see them doing a "We have to go back, Kate" moment in the S5 finale.

[insomniadreams88]

1 minute ago, thenj said:

From the Spoiler Thread:

Flashbacks ending and possible flash forwards

Oh God! I can totally see them doing a "We have to go back, Kate" moment in the S5 finale.

It would be hilarious if all the flash forwards consisted of "damnit, Barry, what did you change now?" 

But on a serious note, as long as they don't keep doing flash forwards to graves, it might not be the worst thing? They'd have to be very careful though. 

[insomniadreams88]

I realize something that's been bugging me about Susan. Didn't she tell Thea her boss made her do that story on Oliver? But now her boss is fine with her giving him a month? Did she say, "Oh, well, we're getting drinks now" and so it's okay? No way that would go over well. If they don't have her writing a story with her boss clued in about that Russia photo, I'd really like to know the writers' thought process there... 

[LeighAn]

3 hours ago, looptab said:

That's exactly it. They weren't prepared to this reaction from this subset of fandom.

Also this section of the fandom when they are unhappy have logical thought out reasons for why they are unhappy with evidence and facts. It's not just short worded insults and OTT rage so it makes it harder for the writers show people to ignore the faults in the writing like they hope fans will

Edited November 20, 2016 by LeighAn

[Belinea]

10 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

They'd have to be very careful though. 

They'd have no idea what they were doing 10 episodes ago and it would just mess up the continuity. But in all likeliness, none of them would care.

On a completely unrelated note, I just saw someone photoshopped SA's face on Jesus/God (in a praising position) and said that this is how he sees him after today. I get that there are freaks on both sides but some people are just weird. This is coming from people who think that people who ship a couple are a bunch of idiots. 

Edited November 20, 2016 by Belinea

[Chaser]

I wonder if the new character flashbacks he is referring too are Prometheus' in episode 5x09.

I don't think I ever want to reread that answer he gave. It's a terrible response. I don't think it would bug me so much if I wasn't fully aware of how much they used Olicity passion for the show and their side projects. Their attitude about it is just pissing me off right now.

I remember when I couldn't wait until Laurel died so I could all the people eating their words. I'm like that with Olicity now.

[statsgirl]

I'd really really prefer Prometheus flashbacks to more of WD's backstory, so maybe there's that.

1 hour ago, Belinea said:

What kind of an answer is that? It is a television show, I know...Is he basically saying keep hoping it will change (yet it won't cause it is tv) but we are not going back but there will be stuff for characters nobody cares about in hopes that someone will start to care...

He's always been all about the bromance so I can believe that he really does think that Lance having a scene with WD is exciting stuff.

The problem, again, is the lack of empathy by him and apparently everyone else working on the show for anyone who doesn't see things as they do.

Edited November 21, 2016 by statsgirl

[LeighAn]

12 minutes ago, Chaser said:

 

I don't think I ever want to reread that answer he gave. It's a terrible response. I don't think it would bug me so much if I wasn't fully aware of how much they used Olicity passion for the show and their side projects. Their attitude about it is just pissing me off right now.

Exactly everyone involved in the show will reach out to the Olicity fandom when they need things because they know that fandom can mobilise but are so willing to then tell the same fandom to essentially get over it when they are unhappy with the direction of the show. 

And they know they used the Olicity fandom and the Olicity relationship too even if they'll never own up to it.

[BkWurm1]

10 hours ago, bijoux said:

Have you considered stopping following their interviews and sound bites? I'm not trying to be dismissive, I swear. It's just that, personally, quitting producer's interviews, has helped me. I find that I enjoy the show I see on screen more than what they're promoting. I don't expect any of them to stop talking, after all it's their job to promote the show. Now, some (myself included) may think they're doing it poorly, but it is what it is.

It's funny, there are only two kinds of shows that I look for spoilers on, the ones that I love soooo much that I need every little scrap of detail on them and the ones that I love but don't trust not to screw me over, for the most part, they've been the same show.  

I know I'd probably be happier without reading the comments of the show runners but I also know we get a lot of insight into the direction the show is going from them and I feel if I didn't follow them, the show might blindside me in a far more painful way than if I can be prepared ahead of time.  

Reading the interviews and sound bites and tracking casting is how I cope with a flawed show.  On one hand, sometimes I end up worked up over nothing, on the other hand, I just might be braced for Tina when she show's up like I was braced for Ray when he showed up and Dec Tiny Hands. Whether or not she's going to be a LI for Oliver, I know how I'd react to just her showing up on screen.  

If I trusted the show more, I could give up the spoilers but I can't so I won't but my need to be spoiled is also a sign of devotion to the show since if I didn't care so much, I also wouldn't bother and so if the show started showing stuff on screen I didn't like, I'd just drift away.  

If I went just by what's on screen since 4-15, I probably would have already done that.  At least right now I still have hope for better things to come.  

4 hours ago, insomniadreams88 said:

It would be hilarious if all the flash forwards consisted of "damnit, Barry, what did you change now?" 

But on a serious note, as long as they don't keep doing flash forwards to graves, it might not be the worst thing? They'd have to be very careful though. 

I LOATH flash forwards since it turns the present into basically a prequel and prequels really suffer because of the already dictated end point.  Just look at how much of a mess last year was with the emotions seen in the grave scene and even the limo scene never really fitting into the show when time catches up.  

Flash forwards either always fail to live up to expectations or are nothing but a misdirect.   Often both.  And they always make me disconnect with the characters in the "present" because no matter how they act or feel, they have to line up with the flash forward so nothing in the "present" has any real lasting weight.  

I was so looking forward to the flashback time being used to beef up the characterization.  The idea of regular flash forwards makes me sick to my stomach.  One or two a year I could handle, but if they just swapped the past for the future, yeah, I'm probably quitting the show.  

[looptab]

6 hours ago, insomniadreams88 said:

You know what bothers me about this? Felicity still deserves an apology. 

I think they believe Oliver telling her he would never lie to her again in 416 served as an apology.

My 2 cents about the latest comments: while I don't particularly enjoy Stephen's tone, I don't think his answer means that Olicity is dead. Remember after 302, Oliver and Felicity didn't actually interact until the 'I love you' in 309. And he answered questions about them with  stuff like 'there are more important things they are focusing on', 'they behave like adults', etc. I don't remember a lot of hopeful comments  from him at that time - aside from the unofficial 'Remember 320'.

I do agree that this comment at this point in time was a little unfortunate, but I don't think he's doing anything different than he  has before, i.e  toeing the company line.

[insomniadreams88]

3 minutes ago, looptab said:

I think they believe Oliver telling her he would never lie to her again in 416 served as an apology.

My 2 cents about the latest comments: while I don't particularly enjoy Stephen's tone, I don't think his answer means that Olicity is dead. Remember after 302, Oliver and Felicity didn't actually interact until the 'I love you' in 309. And he answered questions about them with  stuff like 'there are more important things they are focusing on', 'they behave like adults', etc. I don't remember a lot of hopeful comments  from him at that time - aside from the unofficial 'Remember 320'.

I do agree that this comment at this point in time was a little unfortunate, but I don't think he's doing anything different than he  has before, i.e  toeing the company line.

Yeah, I don't think we'll ever get Oliver apologizing considering no one thinks he was wrong. We'd probably sooner get Felicity apologizing to him for walking away and I will rage if that happens. 

Maybe they're being so negative about Olicity because they want it to be a surprise when they get back together after the proposal leak and all the other leaks? But even if that's the case, this isn't the way to do that. 

[kes0704]

11 hours ago, Chaser said:

I don't think I ever want to reread that answer he gave. It's a terrible response. I don't think it would bug me so much if I wasn't fully aware of how much they used Olicity passion for the show and their side projects. Their attitude about it is just pissing me off right now.

This is what's bothering me about his response as well. Stephen has hopped on board the Olicity ship whenever he has a product to sell or movie to fund, and he was more than happy to go and personally collect the MTV Ship of the Year award. 

He clearly wasn't expecting people to openly express their frustrations with the season and ask direct questions rather than the usual easy ones he gets.  Framing a response to be less combative and dismissive shouldn't be too much to ask for from someone who has received a lot from the fandom.

Edited November 21, 2016 by kes0704

[tv echo]

After re-watching the full video of SA's panel at HVFF-Atlanta, I've added more transcriptions and corrected existing transcriptions above.

Moved rest of my comments to the Poisoned Arrow thread...

Edited November 21, 2016 by tv echo

[tv echo]

I think it is significant that Juliana Harkavy has been working with Bamford on set (in an episode that he's not directing) and training at T3 Athletics, even though Tina is supposedly only a cop.  Tyler Ritter and Janina Gavankar (McKenna) didn't train at a gym and they play(ed) cops. I think all signs point toward Tina playing a cop who either pretended to be anti-vigilante in order to conceal her vigilante moonlighting, or meets Team Arrow and becomes converted to their cause. (Remember, Laurel was once intent on capturing the Arrow before she became a costume-wearing vigilante herself.)

I think it is significant that the new GA Rebirth comics include BC and Diggle but not Felicity. At the same time, I know I could be wrong, but I can't help what I think at this point.

As for Felicity's "thread" in the back half of this season:

Quote

-- MG: "Yeah, we’ve got a really great storyline planned out for Felicity this year. The way it breaks down is in the first five episodes, we face head-on the decision that Felicity made in episode 422, which led to the destruction of Havenrock by one of Damien Darhk’s nuclear missiles. I think there were a lot of questions from fans of, like, are we going to ignore that development? The answer is we are most definitely not ignoring it. Off of that storyline, we’re positioning her to do something in the second half of the year that is really, really key, and isn’t about her relationship with Oliver — it isn’t about even necessarily her father or her mother. It’s really new territory for her, and we’ve very excited about it. I don’t want to spoil so much, especially since it happens deeper into the season, but some big things are going to happen with Felicity." (Oct. 4, 2015 Entertainment Weekly article, page 45 of Spoilers thread)

Considering how Felicity's Havenrock storyline took about two minutes in one episode and was really Rory's story, should we really expect much for Felicity's new story in the back half? Also, Diggle is allowed to be Oliver's best friend and also have independent storylines (Suicide Squad, military fugitive). Yet Felicity only gets her own storyline when she's not Oliver's love interest? Is she going to be shipped off to another 'island'?  Or, more likely, will her storyline be tied to Curtis' hero journey?

Edited November 21, 2016 by tv echo