bijoux June 3, 2016 Share June 3, 2016 Looking on the bright side, it's a crime lord and that's so refreshingly normal after the last two seasons. 7 Link to comment
lemotomato June 3, 2016 Share June 3, 2016 The Big Bad being a crime lord gives me hope that all the "grounded in reality" comments SA and DR have been making might actually come true. 9 Link to comment
thegirlsleuth June 3, 2016 Share June 3, 2016 I'd give you a heart for that first line alone, @catrox14, but everything else is spot on. They could get into some racial/economic dynamics that I can say with absolute certainty that the Arrow writers will botch. *exits, whistling 'Farmer in the Dell'* 1 Link to comment
catrox14 June 3, 2016 Share June 3, 2016 (edited) 6 minutes ago, lemotomato said: The Big Bad being a crime lord gives me hope that all the "grounded in reality" comments SA and DR have been making might actually come true. I'm fine with a crime lord being the big bad...but please Arrow, don't think you're the Wire. I mean isn't there some kind of crime lord in the DC lord than can use that isn't a "Stringer Bell" type. And dear gods, please don't invoke Stringer Bell just because Arrow brings in a black guy from the Glades going to night school to figure out how to launder money via legitimate businesses enterprises. Now. I do wonder if Roy's return will be tied to this crime lord stuff given he is from the Glades, and if he comes back using the name Jason Todd. Edited June 3, 2016 by catrox14 Link to comment
apinknightmare June 3, 2016 Share June 3, 2016 "Loosely based" are the key words here. I don't think they're trying to go full Wire. 11 Link to comment
looptab June 3, 2016 Share June 3, 2016 (edited) I might be wrong, but aren't these just to give an idea of what they are looking for to actors auditioning? Also, this Roy return has been confirmed or is it just what Colton said? Edited June 3, 2016 by looptab 3 Link to comment
lemotomato June 3, 2016 Share June 3, 2016 2 minutes ago, catrox14 said: I'm fine with a crime lord being the big bad...but please Arrow, don't think you're the Wire. "Loosely inspired by" Stringer Bell is what the article says, and it's not a direct quote from the casting notice. It's TV Line reporting what they read. 1 Link to comment
catrox14 June 3, 2016 Share June 3, 2016 (edited) I understand "loosely based" but even that is offensive to this Wire fan. LOL I'm not sure why TVLine would jump to Stringer Bell if there wasn't something that lead them to Stringer Bell. I think of ALL the crime lords in fiction they could reference..so why Stringer Bell? He's rather specific IMO. Quote Arrow‘s latest evil mastermind is heading to Star City by way of Baltimore. TVLine has learned exclusively that the CW drama’s upcoming fifth season will introduce a new villain loosely inspired by Idris Elba’s Wire drug kingpin Stringer Bell. Edited June 3, 2016 by catrox14 Link to comment
apinknightmare June 3, 2016 Share June 3, 2016 11 minutes ago, catrox14 said: I understand "loosely based" but even that is offensive to this Wire fan. LOL I'm not sure why TVLine would jump to Stringer Bell if there wasn't something that lead them to Stringer Bell. I think of ALL the crime lords in fiction they could reference..so why Stringer Bell? He's rather specific IMO. Just taking a wild guess, but they probably jumped to Stringer Bell because someone from the show said, "This character is loosely based on Stringer Bell." 3 Link to comment
catrox14 June 3, 2016 Share June 3, 2016 (edited) 10 minutes ago, apinknightmare said: Just taking a wild guess, but they probably jumped to Stringer Bell because someone from the show said, "This character is loosely based on Stringer Bell." Someone at the show said it was loosely based on Stringer Bell, so someone had that in mind when they told TVLine. Hence my WTF, Arrow! Edited June 3, 2016 by catrox14 Link to comment
way2interested June 3, 2016 Share June 3, 2016 It's kind of like how Flash's casting info for Patty had "think Felicity Smoak from Arrow." It's just for reference. I'm just kind of pleased that I haven't seen any Kingpin/Daredevil references with the description, even though, besides Idris Elba, he was the first character/actor I was picturing. 3 Link to comment
catrox14 June 3, 2016 Share June 3, 2016 16 minutes ago, way2interested said: It's kind of like how Flash's casting info for Patty had "think Felicity Smoak from Arrow." It's just for reference. I'm just kind of pleased that I haven't seen any Kingpin/Daredevil references with the description, even though, besides Idris Elba, he was the first character/actor I was picturing. Eh...I love Felicity but she's not as well known as Stringer Bell. I don't think a DC show would reference a Marvel villain...would they? Gods if they did whoever did it should be fired LOL. Link to comment
wonderwall June 3, 2016 Share June 3, 2016 (edited) 12 minutes ago, catrox14 said: Eh...I love Felicity but she's not as well known as Stringer Bell. I don't think a DC show would reference a Marvel villain...would they? Gods if they did whoever did it should be fired LOL. I think her point was that Patty ended up being different from Felicity... So really, there's nothing to be annoyed with/panic about until we learn more about who this character is... Edited June 3, 2016 by wonderwall 7 Link to comment
way2interested June 3, 2016 Share June 3, 2016 Just now, catrox14 said: Eh...I love Felicity but she's not as well known as Stringer Bell. I don't think a DC show would reference a Marvel villain...would they? Gods if they did whoever did it should be fired LOL. I was just saying that casting for shows in general uses references without the show really intending to base them off of the character at all. It gives a quick reference for the casting director, agent, and actor to see to understand and emulate for the audition and not used as reference for how the show actually intends the write the character. Yeah, I would doubt that they would actually reference a Marvel villain for a casting, but I was just saying that I'm glad I haven't seen any complaints over the internet that Arrow was copying Daredevil because the info reminded me of Kingpin. 3 Link to comment
catrox14 June 3, 2016 Share June 3, 2016 (edited) 17 minutes ago, wonderwall said: I think her point was that Patty ended up being different from Felicity... So really, there's nothing to be annoyed with/panic about Yes, I understood the point. Not sure why annoyance is being equated with panic here. I am neither annoyed or panicked. There is a reason they trotted out Stringer Bell though in their casting notice and why TVLine picked up on it and published it. They want the audience to expect that kind of character, loosely based or not. I just find it hilarious that they are invoking the Wire at all. YMMV Edited June 3, 2016 by catrox14 Link to comment
catrox14 June 3, 2016 Share June 3, 2016 1 hour ago, looptab said: Also, this Roy return has been confirmed or is it just what Colton said? I'm going by Colton. I don't know why he would say he was coming back if he didn't believe it was happening. I mean sure something could change between when he said it to s5 premier but ...I think it's unlikely. Link to comment
tv echo June 3, 2016 Share June 3, 2016 (edited) The Big Bad archetype choices are limited if they're staying away from supernatural/superpowered elements (so no Ra's al Ghul, Damien Darhk, Vandal Savage or Zoom types). If it's a criminal boss, then comparisons to other superhero shows like Daredevil or even Gotham are inevitable. If it's a past friend turned enemy, then comparisons to S2's Slade Wilson (or Spiderman or Smallville) are inevitable. And so on. What are the other options if they're going for a grounded, realistic, powerful bad guy? There are only so many superhero villain tropes. Tbh, I'd rather they aspire to shows like the Wire than try to copy The Flash. Edited June 3, 2016 by tv echo 8 Link to comment
foreverevolving June 3, 2016 Share June 3, 2016 (edited) Let the speculation begin on what "Anton Church" name is actually going to end up being. Edited June 3, 2016 by foreverevolving 1 Link to comment
looptab June 3, 2016 Share June 3, 2016 37 minutes ago, catrox14 said: I'm going by Colton. I don't know why he would say he was coming back if he didn't believe it was happening. I mean sure something could change between when he said it to s5 premier but ...I think it's unlikely. Oh, okay. I'm not doubting he'll come back, I thought there had been more info about his return I had missed. :) 1 Link to comment
Morrigan2575 June 3, 2016 Author Share June 3, 2016 9 minutes ago, foreverevolving said: Let the speculation begin on what "Anton Church" name is actually going to end up being. Have they done Richard Dragon on Arrow yet? Link to comment
tv echo June 3, 2016 Share June 3, 2016 Apparently MG watches GoT "religiously", so I guess we'll have to see it that influences his Arrow storytelling... Link to comment
Carrie Ann June 3, 2016 Share June 3, 2016 1 hour ago, catrox14 said: Yes, I understood the point. Not sure why annoyance is being equated with panic here. I am neither annoyed or panicked. You said you were offended, which I assume was an overstatement, but tbh, your posts made it seem like you did have an issue with the comparison? Anyway, my only point of irritation about this news is that I was really hoping MM was the Big Bad for the season so that we could hopefully be rid of him by end of S5, without suffering through at least one additional season of characters acting OOC in order to accommodate his presence without killing him. It also would have been nice to have one less salary to have to pay, and maybe one less "Alpha Male" type in the cast. I'll hold out further skepticism until we hear more about the season arcs, hopefully by SDCC time. 4 Link to comment
wonderwall June 3, 2016 Share June 3, 2016 9 minutes ago, Carrie Ann said: You said you were offended, which I assume was an overstatement, but tbh, your posts made it seem like you did have an issue with the comparison? Anyway, my only point of irritation about this news is that I was really hoping MM was the Big Bad for the season so that we could hopefully be rid of him by end of S5, without suffering through at least one additional season of characters acting OOC in order to accommodate his presence without killing him. It also would have been nice to have one less salary to have to pay, and maybe one less "Alpha Male" type in the cast. I'll hold out further skepticism until we hear more about the season arcs, hopefully by SDCC time. I'm secretly hoping that MM will be the mini-big bad that will be killed off in the mid-season finale as the obligatory "OMG" moment. Malcolm has lost all of his power/menacing nature. He would've been an extremely poor big bad now that we know that Oliver can easily take him on and win against him. Him having his arm cut off was like the show neutering Malcolm and then the show took it further by making Malcolm into Damien's minion... So while I agree with you that Malcolm needs to go, I'm glad he's not the big bad... :) 1 Link to comment
catrox14 June 3, 2016 Share June 3, 2016 8 minutes ago, Carrie Ann said: You said you were offended, which I assume was an overstatement, but tbh, your posts made it seem like you did have an issue with the comparison? Panic: a sudden uncontrollable fear or anxiety, often causing wildly unthinking behavior I don't think my reaction falls under the definition of panic.(I should know. I have had panic attacks. This is not one of those things) It's not like I came up the Stringer Bell thing all on my own. The show put it out there. Not me. I was using some hyperbole to be funny. Clearly I missed the mark LOL. I'm not annoyed. I am amused because I think Guggenheim probably DOES think his villain is a Stringer Bell type that would be built like Jason Mamoa. Link to comment
jay741982 June 3, 2016 Share June 3, 2016 53 minutes ago, tv echo said: Apparently MG watches GoT "religiously", so I guess we'll have to see it that influences his Arrow storytelling... JMO but the Writing on GoT is probably much better than Arrow. But I'm playing catch up and just finished Season 2 I'm hooked! Link to comment
tv echo June 3, 2016 Share June 3, 2016 (edited) It's probably unfair to compare CW shows to premium cable or netflix shows because of the disparity in budgets and production schedules... HBO's GoT has a reported production budget of $10M per episode for the upcoming season...http://www.forbes.com/sites/hayleycuccinello/2016/04/22/game-of-thrones-season-6-costs-10-million-per-episode-has-biggest-battle-scene-ever/#59c190d4b22a Netflix's Marvel Defenders four shows (Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, Iron Fist) and one miniseries (Defenders) were given a total production budget of $200 million in 2014, to be spent over three years and 60 episodes total...http://www.digitaltrends.com/movies/marvels-netflix-bound-tv-shows-cost-whopping-200-million/#:k7AD_PGw5xpEyA I don't know what the budget is for Arrow... but I'm guessing it's nowhere near those numbers. Then there's the difference in production schedules. I get the impression that Arrow's pre-production, production and shooting schedules are very tight because they have to do 23 episodes. GoT has 10 episodes per season. Daredevil has 13 episodes per season. More time to refine scripts and shoot scenes. ETA: Sorry, I've been feeling really defensive of Arrow lately. Edited June 4, 2016 by tv echo 11 Link to comment
dtissagirl June 3, 2016 Share June 3, 2016 (edited) Shooting tends to last 8-9 days no matter what show, or network/cable/streaming, or budget, because that's industry standard. But lots and lots of money means you can reshoot something if you need to at a later day. And less episodes definitely mean more time for writing, for prep, and for post. It's really just number of shooting days per episode that tend to be the same for every show. Edited June 3, 2016 by dtissagirl 3 Link to comment
AyChihuahua June 3, 2016 Share June 3, 2016 1 hour ago, wonderwall said: I'm secretly hoping that MM will be the mini-big bad that will be killed off in the mid-season finale as the obligatory "OMG" moment. GENIUS! 1 Link to comment
kismet June 4, 2016 Share June 4, 2016 7 hours ago, bijoux said: Looking on the bright side, it's a crime lord and that's so refreshingly normal after the last two seasons. I felt like they were going to go Crime Lord because it correlates perfectly with Bratva. I believe I even suggested a similar idea last year as the big bad before we found out Bratva was not coming. I say bring it on, I'm looking forward to a crime lord. Really wish we got some female baddies though :( 3 Link to comment
kismet June 4, 2016 Share June 4, 2016 I hope they drop him from regular to recurring. He needs to vanish from SC for at least a half a season, if no longer. I'd rather they let MM slink off into darkness and regain his badassery. I don't want him killed off casually in the winter finale. I need some build up to his death, because right now it wouldn't even be a surprise if he died (esp if either of the Queen's killed him). It would be as anti-climatic as LL's death turned out to be. I do wonder though if they can do a random death though like a car/boat accident, which will kill him but also allow him to return. Then he can come back in s6 and be a legitimate Big Bad. Link to comment
Sunshine June 4, 2016 Share June 4, 2016 He may just be in the negotiating stages but I hope he's not a regular. JB's great but I am over Malcolm. 3 Link to comment
looptab June 4, 2016 Share June 4, 2016 I wonder if they'll include something linking to the Dark Archer comics in S5, whether related to the Big Bad or as a side story. Link to comment
Morrigan2575 June 4, 2016 Author Share June 4, 2016 Please let them drop him to recurring. There is no need to keep him as a series regular even with reduced episode count 2 Link to comment
manbearpig June 4, 2016 Share June 4, 2016 I like the idea of a crime boss as the season's big bad. Could have been a pretty natural progression from Malcolm in season one, to a crime boss in season two, Slade in season three (I thought they brought him into the present too early and then he became quite cartoonish with his motivation), then Ra's (done differently, though), and someone else for season five. I don't know. I would have preferred the crime boss as a woman though, if only to mix things up a little. The character could be a little like Salma Hayek's in Savages and then do a flashback episode that plays out like Catherine Zeta Jones's arc in Traffic; basically we could see her happy in her little bubble before something happens that requires her to become more involved in the crime business. 3 Link to comment
BkWurm1 June 4, 2016 Share June 4, 2016 10 hours ago, kismet said: I hope they drop him from regular to recurring. He needs to vanish from SC for at least a half a season, if no longer. I'd rather they let MM slink off into darkness and regain his badassery. I don't want him killed off casually in the winter finale. I need some build up to his death, because right now it wouldn't even be a surprise if he died (esp if either of the Queen's killed him). It would be as anti-climatic as LL's death turned out to be. I do wonder though if they can do a random death though like a car/boat accident, which will kill him but also allow him to return. Then he can come back in s6 and be a legitimate Big Bad. I fully expect Malcolm to go out in a hero's moment. I'm positive he'll be a villian in between (because he can't even tell when he is being one) but you can bet that unless Thea is set up to kill him, Malcolm will die proving his love for TA, lol. Just a matter of when. Link to comment
looptab June 4, 2016 Share June 4, 2016 You know, I think there's a very slim chance that they'll ever let Thea kill Malcolm. If only because they do regard him as 'her father', and I just can't see them going there. Link to comment
bijoux June 4, 2016 Share June 4, 2016 10 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said: I fully expect Malcolm to go out in a hero's moment. I'm positive he'll be a villian in between (because he can't even tell when he is being one) but you can bet that unless Thea is set up to kill him, Malcolm will die proving his love for TA, lol. Just a matter of when. I'm afraid you're absolutely right. Link to comment
Password June 4, 2016 Share June 4, 2016 Im so happy to hear Oliver and Felicity aren't back together in the season 5 premiere. I was low-key thinking that because everything good happens during the hiatus they'd have Olicity secretly marry then keeping it secret for the first few episodes. It's not out of the realm of possibility with this show. #ThankGoodness 3 Link to comment
way2interested June 4, 2016 Share June 4, 2016 I was never really thinking that they would randomly get back together during the hiatus, since I would think that the show would want to go for the romantic/dramatic rekindling scene for sweeps or otherwise, but I am wondering how they're going with the relationship come s5 considering that it's not on as much of a ticking clock as them breaking-up was. Maybe they'll follow the old pattern of the lunge and they'll get back together come 513-515? I'm also wondering if 501 is kind of going to be a mix of 301 and 401 in which maybe Oliver or Felicity, after spending 5 months working together, start to decide to try it again and want to ask the other on a date but for the plot/villain to kick again to push the subplot to the side again. Although, seeing as SA is going to talk with the writers this week, it's going to be interesting to see what kind of answers/expressions he gives about them come the next con or SDCC. Link to comment
lemotomato June 4, 2016 Share June 4, 2016 I want to be as optimistic as everyone that's saying "Oh good, this means we'll get to see them reunite onscreen", but these are the same writers that thought of the most contrived way to break them up, wrote the most ridiculous and anti-climactic breakup scene, spent a whole episode rubbing salt into the wound, and then backburned them for 7 episodes. 4B reminded me so much of the dragged out season 3 mess that I wonder if that's just what the writers prefer. Anyway, I guess until we get more spoilers, my enthusiasm for season 5 is at about 30%. Yay for Bratva flashbacks and a grounded Big Bad, but that's about it. Negative interest in the casting notices and potential 4-show crossover event. 4 Link to comment
Velocity23 June 4, 2016 Share June 4, 2016 I dont think they will put breaks on anything Felicity and Oliver. Especially repeating previous seasons. Also i dont think they reveal the big bad in the first episode this year. Link to comment
kismet June 4, 2016 Share June 4, 2016 I'm going to take everything that is said about Olicity over the hiatus with a grain of salt and hope for the best. I don't think they are going to spill either way the direction of the couple. And in all honesty, I hope they focus more on making the Villains strong, their motivations precise (& not cheesy) and their story arcs quality. I also want them to not f*ck up Bratva. I have waited many years for them to give this to me and I want it well done from beginning to end. No half-assed or lackadaisical approach to Bratva and the flashbacks this year. Olicity is very low on my list of things for them to fix or make great for s5, and often the less they focus on it the better it is. So, I'm going to keep my fingers crossed and hope they find a way to just let Olicity be wonderful on its own, it does not need a major intervention from the writers to make it work. 1 Link to comment
Midnight Lullaby June 4, 2016 Share June 4, 2016 I'm going to wait to form an idea on what they are doing with Olicity because SA doesn't know much about the next season yet. (I imagine they talked in general about the tone, FBs and the big bad) I know lots of people are getting on the wedding in the crossover but I put my bet on the season finale :) I dread though what they are going to do with them in the meantime since they don't seem to know how to write them as a broken up couple. 1 Link to comment
Belinea June 4, 2016 Share June 4, 2016 I wonder which DC vigilante character they will be introducing because I hope they won't feel the need to establish 10* new characters every season. Maybe finding coherent storylines for the characters you already have might be more important. Maybe I haven't been paying to much attention because I am not that excited at the moment but are the casting calls for present day or flashbacks? *somewhat exaggerated. Link to comment
lemotomato June 4, 2016 Share June 4, 2016 3 hours ago, kismet said: I'm going to take everything that is said about Olicity over the hiatus with a grain of salt and hope for the best. I don't think they are going to spill either way the direction of the couple. I think this is a poor promotion strategy. Happy Olicity got a ton of buzz last summer, and balanced out a lot of the general complaining about season 3. This year, with the way the season ended with such a lackluster finale and on a downer note on all fronts, there's hardly anything worth nominating for "best of" polls. To compound this without giving hope for-- like it or not-- a significant aspect of the show? Good luck getting the audience motivated to keep up the free promotion. 3 Link to comment
kismet June 4, 2016 Share June 4, 2016 47 minutes ago, lemotomato said: I think this is a poor promotion strategy. Happy Olicity got a ton of buzz last summer, and balanced out a lot of the general complaining about season 3. This year, with the way the season ended with such a lackluster finale and on a downer note on all fronts, there's hardly anything worth nominating for "best of" polls. To compound this without giving hope for-- like it or not-- a significant aspect of the show? Good luck getting the audience motivated to keep up the free promotion. Oh totally agree not the best strategy. But strategic thinking when it comes to promotion is something both the CW & Arrow lack in general. Usually SA is better with encouraging the energy & buzz, but I think he swallowed his "Company Man" pill again, so whatever they say he'll follow. Part of me wonders if they just want to be able to chill in the writers room this summer and write their own show. No spin-offs or forced characters. They are just craving the ability to do their own thing again, that promotional buzz is the least of their worries. The audience numbers seem pretty rock solid and the factions of fans still really jazzed by what they love. So the audience will probably keep it going, even without the writers encouragement. Plus taking Olicity out of the limelight for what to look forward to in s5 might be a good thing for the show & the couple. 1 Link to comment
Sunshine June 5, 2016 Share June 5, 2016 Anyone stop to consider that although Green Arrow gets married in the comics that maybe the writers aren't planning that outcome in the show or at least not before the final season? Link to comment
calliope1975 June 5, 2016 Share June 5, 2016 1 hour ago, Sunshine said: Anyone stop to consider that although Green Arrow gets married in the comics that maybe the writers aren't planning that outcome in the show or at least not before the final season? Yeah, I'm thinking I'm not getting my 100th episode, crossover wedding. I am disappoint, but that is why I read fanfic. It just felt like they were rolling towards that for Oliver and Felicity but pulled back and hit the brakes hard in 4B. (Even though TIIC can't write these two broken up and SA/EBR don't play them as broken up for the most part.) 1 Link to comment
apinknightmare June 5, 2016 Share June 5, 2016 Since WM said that she and MG presented the engagement idea to GB, I wish he'd talked some sense into them and said, "Maybe don't introduce that idea until you're really ready to go for it." Because they set up certain expectations by putting marriage on the table - and I don't even really mean actual marriage, although yeah, that too. But they took them too far for me to really buy that it's over between them for good. And I wouldn't buy them dating other people, so they're just gonna be hanging out alone in the lair over the summer being buds and stuff? I guess? I suppose I don't really expect this show to make sense at this point, and I'll wait to see what exactly is going on. But yeah. Wish they hadn't brought the possibility of marriage into it unless they're actually gonna get married sooner rather than later. Because their current relationship status + 5 months of additional togetherness = me thinking that through the natural order of things they'd be getting back together soon. Which I'm gonna take a wild guess and say probably isn't going to happen. But...we'll see. 11 Link to comment
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