Spoiler Discussion Thread

[foreverevolving]

I read the various posts of each, but I sincerely believe that laurel lance is not in the grave, many here will be disappointed, MG said that KC does not leave the show

MG agreed with a poster that KC is not leaving the show by her own choosing, which could still mean she is leaving- just not be her own choice, ie she's getting canned.

If life were fair she would have been killed or removed from the show at the earliest after the pilot (when it was obvious KC does not have the acting range for this character) or at the latest after the 1st season finale either with her dying instead of Tommy, or leaving because Tommy died. her leaving could have been a good motivation for Lance, and would still keep Oliver journey intact.

Sadly life isn't fair because MG has no balls so he will never kill off what is essentially a useless character just because he has a thing for her comic counter part.

 

They'll probably end up killing Lance, which is a misfortune because at least he's useful to both Oliver and the team- especially now that both Oliver's parents are dead.

Edited February 7, 2016 by foreverevolving

[EmilyBettFan]

I'm still hoping it's Laurel that dies. She serves no purpose on the show. She doesn't even win her own cases when she's a lawyer.

Edited February 9, 2016 by EmilyBettFan

[Velocity23]

Not if this is the first season they can actually kill her off.

[SmallScreenDiva]

I don't think Marc's balls have anything to do with killing or not killing LL :P I think it's a corporate thing, with WB or DC or CW making the final decision. And that decision isn't likely to include killing off an "iconic" character. It doesn't matter how utterly useless the character is and how the writers, after four seasons, still have difficulty finding a place for her (I mentally excise her dialogue and presencfe from scenes and find nothing changed), she is a costumed character and they're all about costumes as proved by the marketing, statements by EPs and actor touting the collection of masks, etc. I don't know if her merchandise sells, I would imagine there are hardcore fans out there, but take her away and that's one fewer action figure you're selling. I'm resigned to the idea Laurel Lance will forever be with us. In fact, in that possibly AU world where Oliver Queen loses an arm, I would bet she's still alive. What do they say about cockroaches and nuclear apocalypse?

[Morrigan2575]

So, MG confirmed that Oliver has gone back to CC, glad that's settled.

However, I'm really not happy with his answers about Felicity walking again. I'm 90% sure he's screwing with people but it's depressing me all the same.

[lemotomato]

Ugh. The worst part about Quentin getting killed off and Laurel staying is that she's going to spend even more of her requisite screentime with characters I actually like.

[wonderwall]

Ugh. The worst part about Quentin getting killed off and Laurel staying is that she's going to spend even more of her requisite screentime with characters I actually like.

 

So the death toll to service Laurel's journey (partially or fully): 

 

• Sara
• Tommy
• Sara again
• Quentin
• Adam Donner (so she could become ADA)

 

*sigh* The only thing I wish the most is Laurel leaves town after Quentin dies. I desperately hope this is true. 

 

Regardless, that means that the show consists of 4 masks and 1 nonmask/hacker. That's just stupid. I hate that there are so many people on the team, especially since it's the reason why we don't get proper interactions with all of them. David Ramsey himself said that he hasn't had moments with Felicity only because the writers wanted to try new dynamics -_- I mean that's fine and well but the only new dynamic they tried was Laurel/Diggle. Basically I blame Laurel for the limited interactions between characters...

 

• Instead of a Thea/Oliver moment in 411 we got a Laurel/Oliver moment (And let's be real we rarely get good Thea/Oliver moments anymore)
• Instead of a Felicity/Diggle scene in 407 we get a Laurel/Diggle scene even though it would've been more powerful for Diggle to break down in front of a close friend like Felicity
• Instead of watching Thea/Felicity's friendship bloom by Thea confiding in Felicity about her bloodlust, we see her tell Laurel who in the end brushes it under the rug because she's such a swell friend!
• Instead of Thea/Diggle teamups it's always Diggle/Laurel in the field... 

 

Ugh. 

Edited February 7, 2016 by wonderwall

[Belinea]

The BM stuff is just the most unfortunate storyline. I really can't with this one. It is so badly don't that I cannot believe nobody at the table gave it a second thought. 

 

The less Lances there are they less we have the opportunity for family drama. What will come after the family drama is what worries me more. She will be the only Lance left on the show. Where will she go from there?

Edited February 7, 2016 by Belinea

[jay741982]

So, MG confirmed that Oliver has gone back to CC, glad that's settled.

However, I'm really not happy with his answers about Felicity walking again. I'm 90% sure he's screwing with people but it's depressing me all the same.

I wouldn't be surprised if they have plans to keep her in that Goddamn wheelchair. She's not a mask so of fucking course her Injury will stick while the masks don't get any real damage. Thea and Oliver can "die" and be up walking around within a couple of episodes but they are masks they are more important. That Felicity she don't have a mask so she gets permanently paralyzed. Yes my bitterness is showing but that's how much faith I have in those bulkhead writers. I bet Thea will recover fully from current predicament and be fine and yet Felicity still in a Wheelchair no cure for her cause she's not a mask

[nksarmi]

So, MG confirmed that Oliver has gone back to CC, glad that's settled.

However, I'm really not happy with his answers about Felicity walking again. I'm 90% sure he's screwing with people but it's depressing me all the same.

 

Ugh.  I was really prepared to give Oliver a break if it was just the initial lie that could even be a "half-truth" if he had decided to stay away from the kid. 

 

But now we have to deal with the fact that he's clearly told on-going lies (bad, very bad) and more importantly - he has stupidly endangered his son because he knows Darhk was targeting him (Oliver Queen!) not Green Arrow when Felicity was shot. 

 

I mean even if I accept that Oliver's lies are supposed to be "justified" because it's for his son.  And even if I accept that leaving Felicity for extended periods of time after she was shot and paralyzed is "ok" because he is doing it for his kid.  How the hell am I supposed to accept Oliver knowingly endangering his son while a master villain is hunting him!??!?!  How am I supposed to like his character after this?

[tv echo]

Regarding MG's latest justifications for Oliver's BMD behavior and MG's tacit confirmation that Oliver has been visiting his son in CC (and lying to Felicity about it):

As a father of two, I can forgive Oliver for lying in order to have a relationship with his child.

Oliver is a flawed hero.  He makes mistakes.  And I disagree with you that a lie he’s telling in order to be able to have a relationship with his son makes him a douche.

 

MG's viewpoint (that's being reflected in Oliver's in-show actions) is really a very selfish one.  This parent is only thinking of himself and what he wants.  He wants to have a relationship with his son, so visiting his son and lying to his fiance (and his friends) about it is okay in order to achieve that aim.  He's completely disregarding anyone else's interests - the child's, his fiance's. Forget the danger to his son.  Forget the (emotional) damage to his fiance.

Edited February 7, 2016 by tv echo

[apinknightmare]

Regarding MG's latest justifications for Oliver's BM behavior and MG's tacit confirmation that Oliver has been visiting his son in CC (and lying to Felicity about it):

MG's viewpoint (that's being reflected in Oliver's in-show actions) is really a very selfish one. This parent is only thinking of himself and what he wants. He wants to have a relationship with his son, so lying is okay in order to achieve that aim. He's completely disregarding anyone else's interests - the child's, the mother's, his fiance's.

The mother is the one letting him see the kid despite asking him to lie to everyone he knows *specifically* because she knows his life is dangerous and terrible, so he's not disregarding her interests. Oliver is an emotional moron and new at the whole parenting thing and FOR SURE should know better (but PLOT!!!) but the one person who claimed to have William's best interests at heart is failing him spectacularly.

Edited February 7, 2016 by apinknightmare

[way2interested]

So, MG confirmed that Oliver has gone back to CC, glad that's settled.

However, I'm really not happy with his answers about Felicity walking again. I'm 90% sure he's screwing with people but it's depressing me all the same.

Some of them seemed trolling to me personally, and I kind of see it as him trolling people who would think that Felicity would walk again after only 1-2 episodes, but, looking at the tone of his responses, I see what you mean. However, I still kind of see it as them setting up for a dramatic recovery down the road, especially with Oliver's line in 411. Felicity continuously overcoming any anxiety or insecurity over being in a wheelchair just kind of signals to me a "gets a cure just as she's 100% adjusted to her position" type of twist. Plus, in a very shallow sense, I still don't see the CW being ok with EBR remaining in a wheelchair for up to 3 more years.

[nksarmi]

The mother is the one letting him see the kid despite asking him to lie to everyone he knows *specifically* because she knows his life is dangerous and terrible, so he's not disregarding her interests. Oliver is an emotional moron and new at the whole parenting thing and FOR SURE should know better (but PLOT!!!) but the one person who claimed to have William's best interests at heart is failing him spectacularly.

 

I'm going to have to ask this because I refuse to go rewatch and find out - did she ask Oliver not to tell anyone (even the kid*) because she thought Oliver's life was dangerous or just too drama filled? 

 

I mean sure, we have to assume that she somehow missed the fact that his fiancé was shot and paralyzed but maybe?

 

*Do I also have to assume that the kid just accepting Oliver as "mommy's friend" without wondering if Oliver is his dad and/or dating his mom?

[apinknightmare]

I'm going to have to ask this because I refuse to go rewatch and find out - did she ask Oliver not to tell anyone (even the kid*) because she thought Oliver's life was dangerous or just too drama filled?

I mean sure, we have to assume that she somehow missed the fact that his fiancé was shot and paralyzed but maybe?

*Do I also have to assume that the kid just accepting Oliver as "mommy's friend" without wondering if Oliver is his dad and/or dating his mom?

Ultimately it doesn't matter why she said she didn't want him involved, whether it was because of danger or drama-she made it clear she keeps tabs on him in the news, so she would know That he was shot at, exposed Damien Darhk, and was mowed down by gunfire that paralyzed his fiancé. No way does she become LESS interested in his life once she agreed to let him into William's. She's stupid as hell for allowing Oliver near her kid right now.

And I'm not sure what the kid thinks. He's old enough to put the pieces together, but he is Oliver's kid, so maybe not.

Edited February 8, 2016 by apinknightmare

[wonderwall]

I think I'm at the point where I don't really give a damn about the lie because none of it makes sense, as long as Oliver friggin' finally learns NOT to lie about huge monumental things, I'm fine. I've lost my ability to care because it's just too plotty... 

[calliope1975]

I think I'm at the point where I don't really give a damn about the lie because none of it makes sense, as long as Oliver friggin' finally learns NOT to lie about huge monumental things, I'm fine. I've lost my ability to care because it's just too plotty... 

 

Yep. It's so beyond dumb on Oliver and BMD's part, that the only way I'm going to be able to remotely sympathize with or want to continue to watch Oliver, is to handwave this entire plot from existence. I'll watch the breakup because I want to see his sorry ass get dumped, but I'll probably ignore scenes leading up to it. Oh wait, we won't get any scenes leading up to it because these writers are terribad.

 

The complete lack of internal character motivation for this whole story, and MG's beyond lame attempts to justify it, are embarrassing. And I'm going to laugh, laugh, laugh when, once again, critics and viewers reject it. 

[Ann Mack]

I truly am waiting for the reviews after this episode airs. One part of me want the reviews/reviewers to just rip Marc a part for his stupidity. Everyone knows why he made this utterly horrible story line possible to begin with so he isn't fooling anyone with a brain. He is being willingly ignorant (or I hopes that's the case) of the mess he's made. No matter how much justification or reasoning or throwing another actor under the bus to agree with Oliver on his "lie" will make this story line able to be savaged. I'm ready for Marc to let Oliver grow up and stop using these characters to approach a situation from his own point of view and not from a view point of logic. Marc really has me wondering where his own moral compass rests if he honestly cannot see anything wrong with this situation. I honestly thinks he sees it but he crossed the point of no return with it so he has chosen to die on his sword (or baby mama lie) rather than admit his error.

[Genki]

I suspect MG is getting so defensive because they are going to use Oliver's a secret visits as the reason why someone (DD I suspect) finds out about William and kidnaps him. They are deliberately dumbing Oliver down for Plot AGAIN.

[Ann Mack]

I suspect MG is getting so defensive because they are going to use Oliver's a secret visits as the reason why someone (DD I suspect) finds out about William and kidnaps him. They are deliberately dumbing Oliver down for Plot AGAIN.

Oh yeah I'm sure they will and this also is why I hope Marc (and Oliver because he's the tool Marc is wielding to tell this story) gets ripped to shreds when this episode gets reviewed. How stupid can the mother and Oliver be? Felicity just for being in Oliver's general vicinity is now paralyzed but hey is Oliver really dumb enough to think Damien (self acknowledging Bad Guy) won't stoop as low as to use his son against him oh Oliver you're written as dumb as a rock. But it appears as though Marc is just writing them and saying to the audience duh-da-duh-da look both of William's parents are bloody stupid idiots!! Ugh I can't with the stupidity of ALL of this!!

Edited February 8, 2016 by Ann Mack

[looptab]

My only question is: why, why, why no one involved in this show, be it a writer, a producer, anyone, why no one has pointed out how idiotic this lie is? Basically everyone has suggested that he could tell Felicity and BM would never know. How did this not occur to any of them??

[apinknightmare]

It probably did, but they already plotted out what they wanted to happen and couldn't figure out a way around the hole(or didn't care to, because they are lazy hacks), so they're going with it.

Edited February 8, 2016 by apinknightmare

[BkWurm1]

Something just occurred to me, and this might have already been raised upthread so I apologize for repeating it, but do you guys think they'll have Felicity hide her meetings (from the stills, there seems to be at least 2) with her father from Donna? Then they'll have Felicity doing the "lying by omission" thing they're trying to sell with Oliver. Donna's initial appearance can be explained as her checking up on her daughter, it doesn't have to be Papa Smoak-related. 

It doesn't feel in character for her to keep her dad a secret but even if she did, not telling her mom that she's in contact with her father doesn't feel like the same thing at all as her fiancé hiding his visits to his secret child and baby mama.     

[EmilyBettFan]

I can't wait for the articles that are "Oliver and the writers suck for doing this, but Felicity (EBR) once again shows she's the heart of the show."

You know they are going to praise EBR because she seems to be the one elevating the game.

[statsgirl]

I got the feeling from SA's reaction that he knows how stupid this is, and probably WM does too, but when MG gets the bit between his teeth on a plotty plot point, only Berlanti and maybe AK can stop him.

[EmeraldArcher]

Ugh.  I was really prepared to give Oliver a break if it was just the initial lie that could even be a "half-truth" if he had decided to stay away from the kid. 

 

But now we have to deal with the fact that he's clearly told on-going lies (bad, very bad) and more importantly - he has stupidly endangered his son because he knows Darhk was targeting him (Oliver Queen!) not Green Arrow when Felicity was shot. 

 

I mean even if I accept that Oliver's lies are supposed to be "justified" because it's for his son.  And even if I accept that leaving Felicity for extended periods of time after she was shot and paralyzed is "ok" because he is doing it for his kid.  How the hell am I supposed to accept Oliver knowingly endangering his son while a master villain is hunting him!??!?!  How am I supposed to like his character after this?

I've been a loyal fan since the pilot and have never missed an episode; I've cheered for Oliver and felt the pangs of disappointment every time he's regressed.  But, despite loving most of S4, I keep asking myself how I can keep liking Oliver.

 

For me, he just fails as a hero:

• BMD/Lying to Felicity
• Endangering his kid
• Running for mayor and trying to inspire hope for a weary city even as he (1) consorts with the man responsible for leveling the Glades and murdering 503 people and (2) considers striking a deal with Darhk, the man who has already killed countless in Star City and attacked children at the clean-up event. If anybody living in Star City knew of either of those things--even his motivation to save Thea--they could only conclude that Oliver Queen is a villain. Why would it be OK for Oliver (the man who vowed to fight back against Darhk at a press event after a terrorist attack), to seek help from Darhk to save his loved one even though Darhk has killed countless loved ones in Star City? Oliver has made himself a symbol of hope, and it will be so cruel and devastating when they find out he's anything but. If the kid is publicly revealed, his personal lies to the woman he publicly proposed to before she was gunned down will also ruin him in the eyes of the people.

 

MG's claiming that Oliver's lie doesn't make him a douche is so out of touch.  Ollie was a douche.  Oliver seems to have no ethical code at all, nothing that "lights" his way, nothing to prevent him from "doing whatever it takes" no matter how reprehensible it is when he's desperate.

 

I really hope the person that Oliver confides in or advises him about the kid isn't someone I like, because I won't respect them anymore either. Please don't let it be Diggle.

 

Edited to clarify some confusing phrasing.

Edited February 8, 2016 by EmeraldArcher

[thegirlsleuth]

I have a feeling they plotted this out when they created the arc for the show, and it was going to be Oliver lying to Laurel, which while still wrong, would make a little more sense since William was conceived while they were together. They didn't get rid of this major touchstone on Oliver's journey, but they story they built around it didn't transfer from the planned Oliver/Laurel romance to the Oliver/Felicity romance, ergo illogical lie.

They can't fix this, but I get the sense than Amell and the other writers are trying to soften the blow.

Edited February 8, 2016 by thegirlsleuth

[wonderwall]

Okay. I respect if people don't/can't root for Oliver. That's fine. But I don't think that the reasoning of why you don't/ or why you disagree with people saying Oliver isn't a hero or whatnot should be in the spoiler discussion thread or the episode threads, it should be in the Oliver Queen thread. 

[tarotx]

I agree. Going to take my Analyze of Oliver into his thread.

 

Okay. I respect if people don't/can't root for Oliver. That's fine. But I don't think that the reasoning of why you don't/ or why you disagree with people saying Oliver isn't a hero or whatnot should be in the spoiler discussion thread or the episode threads, it should be in the Oliver Queen thread.

Edited February 8, 2016 by tarotx

[kismet]

I got the feeling from SA's reaction that he knows how stupid this is, and probably WM does too, but when MG gets the bit between his teeth on a plotty plot point, only Berlanti and maybe AK can stop him.

Totally agree that once MG gets the bit between his teeth... And the fact that 315 "story by" is him... it's not looking good for us.

 

But I think WM is all over this as well. The BMD originates in her episode 220. She is the non-comic showrunner. Her background is TV dramas, so everything tropey this BMD is rooted in. I know we love to blame MG for everything dumb & plotty (perhaps because he just loves to be so public about his opinions), but WM is very much putting her own touch on this story. And she is setting up OQ's guilty streak in 314. WM gives more pleasant interviews. However, some of character choices and writing has lead me to believe she cannot be so easily trusted.

[Chasity]

Totally agree that once MG gets the bit between his teeth... And the fact that 315 "story by" is him... it's not looking good for us.

 

But I think WM is all over this as well. The BMD originates in her episode 220. She is the non-comic showrunner. Her background is TV dramas, so everything tropey this BMD is rooted in. I know we love to blame MG for everything dumb & plotty (perhaps because he just loves to be so public about his opinions), but WM is very much putting her own touch on this story. And she is setting up OQ's guilty streak in 314. WM gives more pleasant interviews. However, some of character choices and writing has lead me to believe she cannot be so easily trusted.

ITA with everything you're saying about WM. I've been side eyeing her every since that interview she gave after 4x06 in regards to Ray and Felicity. 

[EmeraldArcher]

Okay. I respect if people don't/can't root for Oliver. That's fine. But I don't think that the reasoning of why you don't/ or why you disagree with people saying Oliver isn't a hero or whatnot should be in the spoiler discussion thread or the episode threads, it should be in the Oliver Queen thread. 

Sorry--I wasn't sure where to put it, given that it was in response to the spoilers discussed in this thread. Also, there were multiple threads before mine describing Oliver as stupid and a liar in the context of the spoilers, so I was just adding my perspective about MG's recent spoilery tumblr responses. We've speculated here about how the revelation of his kid will affect his mayoral candidacy, so I don't think wondering how the citizens of Star City will react should his relationship with Malcolm become known is beyond the scope of this thread. And, Oliver, as the Green Arrow, approached Darhk's wife--his opponent in the race--for the meeting, so I don't think it's likely that all of these bad decisions are going to stay a secret.  The writers love to shove Oliver's disastrous decisions in his face all the time.

 

I will kick my diatribes against Oliver down a notch, though! ;-) I've been obsessed with this show for so long, that the stupid of it all makes me really mad.

[looptab]

Ugh. The worst part about Quentin getting killed off and Laurel staying is that she's going to spend even more of her requisite screentime with characters I actually like.

My thoughts exactly. At least I hope they'll give her some guest star to ship her off with, otherwise she'll be omnipresent. UGH

 

 but he is Oliver's kid, so maybe not.

The sad truth. 

[MuuMuuChainsmoker]

If it's Arrow related and not combative or talking about other fans, we're generally going to give people a lot of topic leeway in this thread.

That being said, the pinned mod note in the episode thread applies equally here. Opinions are subjective and don't need to be justified. If you've posted a position more than twice, really think about whether you are contributing to the party or being That Guy who won't let it go.

[nksarmi]

Ack - my computer has a mind of its own today.

 

Ok so what I wanted to say is that I really wish they had found a way not to have Oliver visiting his son after Felicity was shot and paralyzed.  At this point, I care a lot less about the fact that Oliver lied and that he was telling on-going lies than that he knowingly endangered his son.

 

I mean the one thing I can say about Oliver is that when it comes to lying, he's no hypocrite.  When he found out that Felicity had been lying to him about working with the team over the summer - he basically said, "I don't care.  No big deal."  Oliver just doesn't prioritize honesty the way some (most?) people do.  And if we look at this upbringing - that kind of makes sense.  He loves both his mom and his dad and he discovered they were liars (and cheaters!).  He was rewarded for lying during his relationship with Laurel.  He then ended up on the island and soon adopted a lifestyle where lying was necessary.  Even in his mission as Arrow/Green Arrow - he lies on a regular basis.

 

And even at the end of season three, he didn't get burned for lying.  Diggle was mad at him, but if I recall it correctly - he was more angry over Oliver using Lyla for his own means than Oliver lying.  Felicity forgave him easily and drove off into the sunset with him.  Oliver has been repeatedly rewarded for lying - so why should we think it wouldn't be his "go-to" move now?

 

Therefore, if I accept that this is just part of who Oliver is - I can ignore that aspect of this plot and even believe that he and Felicity can get past it at some point.

 

But I don't handle stupid well.  Actually, I have a really hard time cheering for a stupid hero.  And we had a lot of stupid Oliver last season.  Now we have to have stupid Oliver endangering his kid?  I might be able to keep watching this show for Felicity, Diggle, and even Thea - but Oliver is dumb.  At this point, it's clear to me that he is only a successful hero (as opposed to vigilante) because of his team and he better start learning to confide in them and ask them for advice.  Because Oliver is dumb.

 

Now the one thing that would make me consider not watching anymore is that Oliver is primarily dumb because the writers are lazy.  Oliver finding out about his kid felt shoe-horned into the cross-over episode anyway.  They should have found some way to have Oliver find out about his son, lie, and visit his son when he was not being directly targeted by Darhk.  Because if anything happens to the kid - it really IS Oliver's fault.

 

 

Edited February 8, 2016 by nksarmi

[nksarmi]

You ko

[dtissagirl]

Are we at the point we start calling Oliver "Big Dumb Arrow" as an ~homage to Smallville's Big Dumb Alien? Are we?

Please say we are.

[wonderwall]

Edited by mod: As noted in the mod note 2 posts up, people are not required to take Arrow related posts to other threads (or at least it's not up to posters to police each other on this).

That being said, if you think Oliver sucks and should eat a bag of bees and you've already mentioned that several times in multiple threads then Give. It. A. Rest and don't drag down the conversation.

Edited February 8, 2016 by MuuMuuChainsmoker

[nksarmi]

wonderwall - I think I got it out of my system - but understand that we can't really talk about Oliver endangering his kid in his thread because it's kind of a spoiler. I mean given what has aired - I don't think I can rant about it just yet on the Oliver thread.  But I will let it go for now lol. 

 

And yes Big Dumb Arrow seems like an appropriate nickname to me. 

[Chaser]

If we decide to rename Oliver's thread, "Oliver Queen: Big Dumb Arrow" gets my vote.

[kismet]

Please no renaming of OQs thread! It's bad enough every season the writers get lazy and sacrifice his character development to make their dumb plots work. We here do not also have to throw him under the bus.

OQ was never a perfect character. His flaws are what make some of his hero journey compelling, albeit frustrating at times. I know people are upset with him. But really most of that shpuld be directed towards the writers who have essentially proven a good majority of the dumb they write is because plot dictates it and it has nothing to do with the characters &/or their development.

We should only rename threads if it brings out a more positive description of the character.

[Morrigan2575]

I don't know what happened to Wonderwall's post but can I just add to it...if it's not a spoiler discussion take it to bitterness/Oliver Queen/Hopes and Fears.  

[looptab]

We should only rename threads if it brings out a more positive description of the character.

Why is that? Sorry, I completely disagree with this.

And,all things considered, IMO Big Dumb Arrow is a much more positive moniker than most, wrt Oliver :D

(Apologies for the OT)

[dtissagirl]

If I can't mock the Big Dumb Arrow, what even is the point of living.

[wonderwall]

I agree with Kismet. We might be annoyed with Oliver right now, but I doubt this will be the case in 1 year.

[EmeraldArcher]

Please no renaming of OQs thread! It's bad enough every season the writers get lazy and sacrifice his character development to make their dumb plots work. We here do not also have to throw him under the bus.

OQ was never a perfect character. His flaws are what make some of his hero journey compelling, albeit frustrating at times. I know people are upset with him. But really most of that shpuld be directed towards the writers who have essentially proven a good majority of the dumb they write is because plot dictates it and it has nothing to do with the characters &/or their development.

We should only rename threads if it brings out a more positive description of the character.

@kismet--no worries! I don't think anybody is actually asking for a name change of his thread. ;-)

 

Update on grave speculation (Yay!) that I brought up a few weeks ago: According to MG's recent tumblr post, Brie Thorpe's gravestone has absolutely no relevance to upcoming story lines. Source

[looptab]

For me the difference is that it is lightly -  and affectionately - mocking, and not straight up denigratory, as it would be if we,  say, should rename Laurel's thread Because Comics or Buckles or whatever :) So I wouldn't see any harm in that, more this forum's brand of snark.

Edited February 8, 2016 by looptab

[MuuMuuChainsmoker]

I don't know what happened to Wonderwall's post but can I just add to it...if it's not a spoiler discussion take it to bitterness/Oliver Queen/Hopes and Fears.

A bit of inside baseball so you guys understand mod process. When someone reports a post using the Report Center (even when it's just to ask a question about policy, etc) the report goes to a central location that all mods check. Any mod mod who is around will read the report and if the originating forum belongs to another mod, they will generally just hide the reported post until the primary mod can assess whether anything needs to be done. So when a post "disappears"' it's probably been hidden until an Arrow mod can deal with it.

In this case, I edited the original post. I am not trying to single out wonderwall, but I wanted to address the issue where it came up.

To get to the substance of the issue, I get the frustration, but please don't topic police other posters directly. Use the report button or PM us directly if you have issues or want to ask general policy questions. It may not always seem like it, but we are here to try to keep this a good place for everyone.

[statsgirl]

I was looking at the comments to the tweet to MG about needing to see Felicity's feelings on the subject (and thinking geez, give the show time, I'm sure we'll see them when they break up) and it occurred to me that one of the characters really shafted by this stupidity is Laurel.

 

If MG were a lawyer, oh, wait...then he would know that Oliver has a legal right to get to know William.  Before he started on the route of secret visits, he should have talked to a lawyer.  Fortunately, there is one close at hand, right there in the lair. Now granted he may not want to tell Laurel since he was with her when William was conceived but she's going to find out some time and it could have been a really good Oliver/Laurel-settling-the-past scene.  And it would give Laurel a scene where it had to be Laurel rather than a stand-in for anyone because they need to give her lines.

[Ann Mack]

If ever the word "lawyer" was mentioned then the whole plotty plot plot reason for having Oliver lie would fall apart. They (Marc and company) can not use logic or common sense here because again if they did then there would be no story line here. Therefore, Oliver has to play the role of a complete idiot who is desperate to see his child he was denied the privilege of by a lying scumbag, check cashing liar, so he throws all his growth and promises to Felicity out the window. Why does Samantha need Oliver to lie to EVERYONE important in his life? Why does in her words she believe Oliver "is asking the world of her", so she is only asking the same of him (really he wants to see his child that she kept from him for 9 years?) So yeah logic and common sense has to be completely  ruled out so Marc G. can get the contrived soap opera results he needs to break up Oliver and Felicity. The writers may try and compound the issue by adding some other reason but most watching (even the reviewers) already know ALL of this nonsense is to get to an end result of BREAKING -UP Olicity (temporarily, they know Oliver and Felicity are the hottest commodities the show has working for it right now)!

Edited February 8, 2016 by Ann Mack