Spoiler Discussion Thread

[SonofaBiscuit]

“We’re at the point in the season where, I think our fans know, it’s usually when the culling happens, so I think everyone knows that they’ve got reason to be afraid,” he says, noting that there won’t be a traditional cliffhanger leaving fans wondering about their favorite characters’ fates.

 

 

Problem is, now that the Lazarus Pits exist, I'll just be left wondering if whoever ends up dead is going in the Pit, whether it be this season or at the start of the next.  Also, the fact that the finale focuses on OG Team Arrow is too little too late.  You can't just give me that dynamic three times a season and expect me to care anymore (especially since it seems as though we're getting fractured OG Team Arrow again next season with Diggle/Oliver at odds).  Bleh.

[apinknightmare]

I was pretty certain Barry would be, I feel like that was already out there and made the most sense if Oliver is in 1X22. It's also why I'm thinking a time correction is still in play. 

 

If it does, I think it probably only goes back as far as whenever the virus makes it to SC, and I'm still even skeptical about that since time travel has never been mentioned on this show before, unless Barry says, "hey, I know a way I can undo this..." and then runs or something.

 

ETA: except I'm still kind of doubtful about this, because as of now, Barry doesn't know exactly how he time traveled does he? He said he did it by accident. Not that that would matter here necessarily, I guess he could figure out it next week. Or maybe they'd never explain it.

Edited May 6, 2015 by apinknightmare

[apinknightmare]

Oh god, that sneak peak with Felicity, Laurel and Digg. It's going to take everything I have in me to watch this damn episode and I'm going to need all kinds of alcohol. 

 

I really just want to nope on out.

Edited May 6, 2015 by apinknightmare

[tarotx]

Oliver didn't even do anything over the top evil except leave Baby Sara alone. I get Diggle is angry but Laurel needs to sit her ass down.

[blixie]

 

except I'm still kind of doubtful about this, because as of now, Barry doesn't know exactly how he time traveled does he?

 

No my point was that IF Barry is appearing that option, is certainly MORE possible than if he was NOT appearing on Arrow in the season finale. And of course I'm actively rooting to erase this whole season, so I'm sure this fakakta show won't go there.

[apinknightmare]

No my point was that IF Barry is appearing that option, is certainly MORE possible than if he was NOT appearing on Arrow in the season finale. And of course I'm actively rooting to erase this whole season, so I'm sure this fakakta show won't go there.

 

I understand your point, I just think his speed will be a factor in this ep more so than his ability to time travel, because, unless I'm forgetting something, Barry doesn't seem to even know how he time traveled. 

Edited May 6, 2015 by apinknightmare

[SonofaBiscuit]

If you're curious about video and can't watch:

 

Diggle is sitting and Laurel comes in the room wearing her buckles.  Apparently they've been going around beating up criminals to make themselves feel better.  Felicity tells Dig that he's in denial about how angry he is.  Dig is pissed and says that Oliver was his best friend and he kidnapped Lyla.  "And you think that justifies hospitalizing people?" Felicity says to Dig.  She tells him that he can't go around the city taking it out on every criminal.

 

Laurel asks Felicity how she can be so sanguine after what happened last week.  "Because I know that wasn't Oliver.  Our Oliver, MY Oliver died the day he joined the League.  This is someone else."  Laurel asks if she truly believes that.  "I have to" Felicity replies.  Dig and Laurel both shake their heads in disgust at Felicity and leave.

[dtissagirl]

I'm really tired of this trend of Felicity saying something about Oliver early in the episode only for it to be contradicted afterwards.

Also, I legit feel like if this season hadn't piled on the poop and grimdark, I'd feel more sympathetic to Diggle's anger. As it is, I kind of don't care, which is terrible, because I adore Dig, and Lyla too, but it feels like too little to late JUST BE OVER ALREADY, SEASON OF DOOM.

Edited May 6, 2015 by dancingnancy

[tarotx]

A time reversing Barry leaves no impact on the Arrow characters. That's why I doubt it for the season's finale episodes. But who knows with this creative team.

The Diggle dramatics are over the top because Lyla can take care of herself.

Edited May 6, 2015 by tarotx

[apinknightmare]

I'm confused by the argument, and maybe it's because I've had a long day at work, but.

 

Diggle and Laurel think that IS Oliver as in something he would do just to fuck with them if he wasn't in the League? I'm not getting where they're coming from. Felicity's arguing that he's not the same person, and Diggle is arguing that the real Oliver did this, like this is the person he always was is not who they thought even though (at least, for Diggle) three years of friendship proves otherwise? 

 

Like he would've been capable of fucking with Digg's family (in, again, what is the blandest kidnapping EVER) just because if the stakes weren't, you know, HUGE?

Edited May 6, 2015 by apinknightmare

[chaos is welcome]

A time reversing Barry leaves no impact on the Arrow characters. That's why I doubt it for the season's finale episodes. But who knows with this creative team.

The Diggle dramatics are over the top because Lyla can take care of herself.

Yeah, Diggle's reqction doesn't really compute for me either.

I hated that whole scene. Angry diggle. Because so many people have turned on oliver already, I can't deal with how this is going to go down.

It pisses me off that he's more upset about oliver kidnapping lyla then the fact they Think oliver is lost forever. Maybe more upset about losing a brother?

Laurel was awful. Continues to be awful.

The wording on that spoiler about how we will feel at the cliff hanger has me worried. It seems too soft of a reaction for SHOCKING. Thanks to apinknigntmare I a. Pretty much expecting Felicity to die. Bc how many people can oliver Queen lose? I do not expect it to be a real death.

Bleh, I hate this all. They had so much potential and they have ruined everyone.

[GirlvsTV]

Well, they undid almost 2 years of character development and relationship building between Oliver and Quentin in the span of about an episode because the plot needed it so I'm sure this is just more of the same. Unfortunately.

I'm really on the fence about watching. Just tired of seeing characters I actually really care about be miserable all the time.

[tv echo]

My dialogue guesses...

 

QUOTE:  “If there is even the possibility of this kind of danger to my city, I’m reporting for duty.”  RAY

 

QUOTE:  “I don’t think this is something you can run away from.”  MALCOLM

 

QUOTE:  “You will always be held captive by your love for each other.”  RA'S (TO OLIVER) or TATSU (TO FELICITY)

 

QUOTE:  “The only thing I know right now is I need to be with

.”  THEA (TO MALCOLM)

 

QUOTE:  “There is no him left.”  MALCOLM or RA'S (ABOUT OLIVER)

 

QUOTE:  “I will always love you.”  MASEO or TATSU (TO THE OTHER)

 

QUOTE:  “I’m sorry,

, for everything.”  FELICITY (TO RAY WHILE LOCKED UP) or MASEO (TO TATSU)

 

QUOTE:  “You have this little cloud following you around.”  NYSSA (TO OLIVER)*

 

* The ET article said to "think cloudy" about 3x22's final moment (shocking cliffhanger).  Could this quote be related to that moment?  Perhaps foreshadowing if it ends with Oliver actually dispersing the A/O virus over Starling City?  That would be shocking.

 

QUOTE:  “Maybe we shouldn’t cross that line.”  ROY (TO THEA) or DIGGLE

 

QUOTE:  “You’re my friend. I’m always going to be there for you.”  RAY (TO FELICITY)

 

QUOTE:  “When I am Ra’s, I can release you from your oath.”  OLIVER or MALCOLM or NYSSA

 

QUOTE:  “I don’t like the idea he can summon us.”  FELICITY (ABOUT RA'S)

 

QUOTE:  “Don’t even play with our emotions like that.”  FELICITY or LAUREL (TO MALCOLM)

 

QUOTE:  “Your city is in great danger.”  TATSU (TO TEAM ARROW)

 

QUOTE:  “I am not playing a game here.”  MALCOLM or RA'S

 

QUOTE:  “He’s lied to us so many times it should be a drinking game.”  DIGGLE or FELICITY (ABOUT MALCOLM)

 

QUOTE:  “You speak to me as if I am a monster.”  RA'S 

 

QUOTE:  “She had a wit and a fire about her that I found I could not live without.”  RA'S (TO OLIVER)

 

QUOTE:  “His last thought before

was of you.”  TATSU (TO FELICITY)

 

QUOTE:  “True art is never finished, only abandoned.”  RA'S (TO OLIVER)

 

QUOTE:  “Don’t make my mistake.” RA'S or MASEO (TO OLIVER), or maybe TATSU (TO FELICITY)

 

QUOTE:  “It’s not too late to come back to me.”  TATSU (TO MASEO)

 

QUOTE:  “You know I wouldn’t have done the same thing for you.”  MALCOLM or MASEO

 

QUOTE:  “You should see the other guy!”  RAY

 

QUOTE:  “If any of you speak, we’re all going to die.” MALCOLM

 

QUOTE:  “I need you to trust me.” OLIVER

 

QUOTE:  “This is so beautiful, yet so dangerous.” RA'S (ABOUT THE A/O VIRUS)

 

QUOTE:  “You made me want to be the man you saw through your eyes.”  MASEO (TO TATSU) or ROY (TO THEA)

 

QUOTE:  “Things are worse than we thought.” MALCOLM

 

QUOTE:  “Nanda Parbat is not the easiest place to infiltrate.” MALCOLM

 

QUOTE:  “You got it to fly, what more do you want?”  FELICITY (TO RAY)

 

QUOTE:  “Malcolm, we need help.”  OLIVER 

 

QUOTE:  “From my prison, there is no escape.” RA'S

 

QUOTE:  “I’m sorry, I forgot the flag.”  RAY

 

Ones we already know are true from the spoilers:

QUOTE:  “I would rather die than wed this pretender.”  NYSSA
QUOTE:  “I can’t believe you’re still alive.”  THEA
QUOTE:  “I had to do it for Oliver.”  ROY
QUOTE:  “If you believe that, fight for him.”  TATSU
QUOTE:  “You think they rent horses here?”  FELICITY
QUOTE:  “Surrender or die.”  OLIVER

Edited May 6, 2015 by tv echo

[NoWayOut]

I still would've preferred Diggle's broken trust be related to Andy and a non-brainwashed Oliver rather than his kidnapping of Lyla. Since that's not what they're going with, it would make more sense to see Diggle's feelings of betrayal surfacing once he finds out that Oliver's been faking it and he willingly put Lyla in danger as part of his ruse. As of now, Diggle is seemingly upset over what he thinks Oliver did under mind control. I don't buy that Diggle would hold what a brainwashed Oliver did against Oliver. It's similar to what Thea did under the influence of drugs, imo.

[Guest]

Yeah, I'm confused by that clip too. I totally understand why Diggle is angry but it's not like Oliver would do these things if he had a choice. So in a sense Felicity is right because even though we know Oliver is faking being brainwashed, the OQ with morals had to be shelved for a while so he could do Ra's bidding. Especially if he's got a secret plan or whatever. He can't risk Ra's finding out.

 

Also, real subtle show trying to force Laurel and Diggle on the same side. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

I don't think Diggle is thinking quite clearly. I mean his wife was kidnapped by freakin' assassins and his baby was left behind for however long. Man has the right to be pissed. I think he's furious at Oliver but hasn't quite gotten to the point of acknowledging that it is a "different" Oliver who committed the deed.

[apinknightmare]

I don't think Diggle is thinking quite clearly. I mean his wife was kidnapped by freakin' assassins and his baby was left behind for however long. Man has the right to be pissed. I think he's furious at Oliver but hasn't quite gotten to the point of acknowledging that it is a "different" Oliver who committed the deed.

 

But last week he was telling Oliver that what he was doing wasn't him, so now he's saying it is him. So previously he was acknowledging that Oliver wasn't acting as himself, but he and Laurel seem to be arguing that Oliver IS himself, which...why would they think that? Diggle at least has three years worth of evidence to the contrary. 

 

I can see him being angry, I guess. But this level of irrational is weird to me.

[calliope1975]

Well, people were complaining because he wasn't acknowledging her work on his suit.  Maybe this is his way of saying "thank-you"?  He got what he wanted from the company so he doesn't need it anymore.

Plus, I don't think Palmer's sticking around SC; he has a spin off to headline. Giving Felicity the company frees him from SC and leaves him to do whatever the hell he'll be doing on LoT, and he'll look like a super swell guy, too. /rolls eyes

Is this show going to make me be irritated at Diggle? Don't go there show. Will I care about any of the characters after this mess of a season?

[chaos is welcome]

I don't think Diggle is thinking quite clearly. I mean his wife was kidnapped by freakin' assassins and his baby was left behind for however long. Man has the right to be pissed. I think he's furious at Oliver but hasn't quite gotten to the point of acknowledging that it is a "different" Oliver who committed the deed.

Ehhhh.  But Diggle is also a soldier and lyla is a CAPABLE ASS WOMAN.  The possibility of Lyla being a "soft target" is always there.  This was NOT Oliver, as far as they know. He didn't hurt her, or break her face or ANYTHING.  Yes, Oliver kidnapped her, Dig can be legit be pissed when he finds out Oliver was FAKING and did it.  But right now they think oliver is lost to them.  Lyla is fine. Sara was not harmed.   Sure, Diggle, be frustrated because you feel helpless about the whole situation. 

[jay741982]

Just saw a Clip from tonight's episode where Felicity calls her man "My Oliver" GUH ILL BE OKAY. Sniffle Sniffle. The haters who act like Felicity shouldn't cry over Oliver will be out tonight

[apinknightmare]

Ehhhh.  But Diggle is also a soldier and lyla is a CAPABLE ASS WOMAN.  The possibility of Lyla being a "soft target" is always there.  This was NOT Oliver, as far as they know. He didn't hurt her, or break her face or ANYTHING.  Yes, Oliver kidnapped her, Dig can be legit be pissed when he finds out Oliver was FAKING and did it.  But right now they think oliver is lost to them.  Lyla is fine. Sara was not harmed.   Sure, Diggle, be frustrated because you feel helpless about the whole situation. 

 

Yeah, I guess part of the problem for me is that of all the people involved I would imagine Diggle would be the most able to cope with something like this, especially with Lyla's history with ARGUS and the military. He should be the first to realize that Oliver might be faking and working to take Ra's down from the inside, ESPECIALLY since Lyla was never hurt and was turned over immediately. He should be more pissed that Oliver left his daughter alone, IMO.

Edited May 6, 2015 by apinknightmare

[catahoulamama]

What the ACTUAL fuck?  Why do they keep promoting this wedding like it's something the audience wants to see?

THIS. This entire season has been like a quest by the writers and showrunners to just piss off and/or emotionally wound the audience. Do they really only want the masochists left watching? And the spoilers today that (paraphrasing) "Arrow is just going to get darker for the last two episodes". Really?  That's gonna make me want to return as a viewer next season after a blissfully Guggenheim-free summer why?

[jay741982]

Only Arrow ends a season dark as Hell. Fucking MG. He said Next season is more of a Balance. Hey asshole how bout you end THIS season with some happiness so I don't know People don't drop the show after this BAD season?

[SonofaBiscuit]

The worst part of this Diggle/Oliver rift is that it's not just for the remainder of this season...it's going to carry over into season 4 as well, apparently.  Like, I'm already annoyed with next season and it hasn't even happened yet.  Engage in fisticuffs and move on, please.

[catahoulamama]

So much this.

 

Ras' lack of motivation/clear direction this season has completely taken its toll. It makes zero sense.  The stupid would burn, except I think we've all become immune.

If Ras' reign in 100+ years, why worry about a heir now? Presumably Ras doesn't use the LP to keep his family young?  If his reign is a century or more, shouldn't he chill on having a heir for at least a few score?   And if BLOOD is so important to Ras why the whole prophecy anyway.

 

Clearly not meant for critical thinking.  

This season has convinced me that they don't want critical thinkers watching this show. Guggs gets pissy when people question him hard about things, like "How dare you try to make this make sense, viewer?" I'll be shocked if he isn't condescending about the negative response to the wedding and the request for consummation. TBH, I think they'd be content if their audience was just oohing and ahhing at the "epic! fight! scenes!", dreaming of having Ra's power, and ogling Laurel's ass in her excessively buckled suit.

[apinknightmare]

The worst part of this Diggle/Oliver rift is that it's not just for the remainder of this season...it's going to carry over into season 4 as well, apparently.  Like, I'm already annoyed with next season and it hasn't even happened yet.  Engage in fisticuffs and move on, please.

 

Yeah. The finale is supposed to feel like an ending to the first three seasons, and Diggle and Oliver are gonna be on the outs? Ugh.

[looptab]

That clip was awful, and left such a bad taste in my mouth. Like, okay, Diggle, I get you're pissed, but what were you expecting? What did they think Oliver was going to do in the League? Did they expect him to rebel against targeting them? Were they expecting him to fight the brainwashing? We know he is not brainwashed, but they don't. He had no choice, and nobody was actually harmed, so take a breath, damn. And Laurel and Diggle watching Felicity thinking she is delusional, and the fact that eventually they're going to be proven right, pisses me off to no end.

 

Sorry, rant over. Ugh.

Edited May 6, 2015 by looptab

[chaos is welcome]

The worst part of this Diggle/Oliver rift is that it's not just for the remainder of this season...it's going to carry over into season 4 as well, apparently.  Like, I'm already annoyed with next season and it hasn't even happened yet.  Engage in fisticuffs and move on, please.

Oh yes, please yes. Bc oliver shoving diggle a few eps back totally worked for me. One of my fav stunt scenes was dig/oliver/sara sparing.

Air it out, get sweaty and beat each other up, move on. Forget the angsty season long stuff.

[catahoulamama]

I was pretty certain Barry would be, I feel like that was already out there and made the most sense if Oliver is in 1X22. It's also why I'm thinking a time correction is still in play. 

 

 

Sure that's why they contrived an entire bullshit storyilne wherein he (and we) could avoid making that decision by embracing a THIRD identity Al Sa-him. JFC on a hockey stick.

Despite them saying the time correction wouldn't happen on Arrow, I still think it's a possibility, especially with Barry showing up.  It would explain all the shark jumping and pushing every envelope they've got this year if they just "correct" it at the end.  Honestly, I think heads will explode if that happens. Not sure what I'd be more pissed about...all the douchey things they've done this year, or the fact that they did them knowing full well they'd just yell "Psych!" at the end and get a do over.  I hope they don't do it, which probably means they will. LOL

[SonofaBiscuit]

This season has convinced me that they don't want critical thinkers watching this show. Guggs gets pissy when people question him hard about things, like "How dare you try to make this make sense, viewer?" I'll be shocked if he isn't condescending about the negative response to the wedding and the request for consummation. TBH, I think they'd be content if their audience was just oohing and ahhing at the "epic! fight! scenes!", dreaming of having Ra's power, and ogling Laurel's ass in her excessively buckled suit.

 

Here are his probable responses to outrage on behalf of Nyssa over the wedding/consummation nonsense:

 

1.)  What?  You're shocked that Ra's is EVIL?  2.)  What about Oliver?

 

He'll either deflect or blame it on a fictional TV character.  Never mind the fact that you and your team of writers are the ones making this shit happen...Matt Nable isn't just improvising his scenes here.  Whatever, MG, whatever. 

[apinknightmare]

And Laurel and Diggle watching Felicity thinking she is delusional, and the fact that eventually they're going to be proven right, pisses me off to no end.

 

Are they though? This is why this argument doesn't work for me. They're saying that this new evil Oliver is the real Oliver, not that the real Oliver is working on a plan and acting evilly. Like the evil man who kidnapped Lyla is who he is now. It's not.

 

Felicity's wrong too, but she's wrong in a good way. "Her" Oliver didn't die the moment he joined the League. He's still in there, he just can't be himself right now.

 

Laurel and Diggle are legit writing off the guy they knew. Laurel I get because she doesn't really seem to care too much about him these days, but Diggle should know better.  

[NoWayOut]

Ok, I rewatched that clip and I still don't get the arguments. We know he's faking it but shouldn't they be on the same side if they think Oliver is brainwashed? Felicity believes that isn't their Oliver, he's someone else, that he's acting OOC. On the other hand, Diggle and Laurel believe that he's been brainwashed but ????

[chaos is welcome]

Are they though? This is why this argument doesn't work for me. They're saying that this new evil Oliver is the real Oliver, not that the real Oliver is working on a plan and acting evilly. Like the evil man who kidnapped Lyla is who he is now. It's not.

 

Felicity's wrong too, but she's wrong in a good way. "Her" Oliver didn't die the moment he joined the League. He's still in there, he just can't be himself right now.

 

Laurel and Diggle are legit writing off the guy they knew. Laurel I get because she doesn't really seem to care too much about him these days, but Diggle should know better.

Exactly. It's like they are ignoring the whole brainwashing thing. He was totes in his right mind when he did it. Laurel maybe gets a pass because ollie banged her sister. But dig has no excuse.

[jay741982]

That clip was awful, and left such a bad taste in my mouth. Like, okay, Diggle, I get you're pissed, but what were you expecting? What did they think Oliver was going to do in the League? Did they expect him to rebel against targeting them? Were they expecting him to fight the brainwashing? We know he is not brainwashed, but they don't. He had no choice, and nobody was actually harmed, so take a breath, damn. And Laurel and Diggle watching Felicity thinking she is delusional, and the fact that eventually they're going to be proven right, pisses me off to no end.

 

Sorry, rant over. Ugh.

Yeah im tired so fucking Goddamn tired of these fucking writers making Felicity get it wrong regarding Oliver it pisses me off so fucking much cause I love Felicity and not Laurel.

[looptab]

Are they though? This is why this argument doesn't work for me. They're saying that this new evil Oliver is the real Oliver, not that the real Oliver is working on a plan and acting evilly. Like the evil man who kidnapped Lyla is who he is now. It's not.

Felicity's wrong too, but she's wrong in a good way. "Her" Oliver didn't die the moment he joined the League. He's still in there, he just can't be himself right now.

Laurel and Diggle are legit writing off the guy they knew. Laurel I get because she doesn't really seem to care too much about him these days, but Diggle should know better.

But if they find out Oliver wasn't really brainwashed, their argument is kinda valid. Like, they could say, he endangered Lyla when he had a chiice not to, because he was fully himself. That's why I'm pissed, because they won't feel him having a plan justifies it.

[catrox14]

I'm confused. Where is the clip with Diggle?

[jay741982]

Ok, I rewatched that clip and I still don't get the arguments. We know he's faking it but shouldn't they be on the same side if they think Oliver is brainwashed? Felicity believes that isn't their Oliver, he's someone else, that he's acting OOC. On the other hand, Diggle and Laurel believe that he's been brainwashed but ????

After that clip I definitely see at the end of the season Diggle and Laurel being against Oliver and Felicity sticking with him.

[apinknightmare]

But if they find out Oliver wasn't really brainwashed, their argument is kinda valid. Like, they could say, he endangered Lyla when he had a chiice not to, because he was fully himself. That's why I'm pissed, because they won't feel him having a plan justifies it.

 

But he wasn't being fully himself. He was having to play a part to fool Ra's into thinking he was brainwashed.  

 

ETA: Honestly, for all we know, Oliver might've thought that showing a little bit of ruthlessness towards his friends might've been a show of faith indicating that they aren't really a threat to his new persona to keep them safe in the long run - assuming he WAS in his right mind then, and hasn't had a breakthrough in the last week or something.

Edited May 6, 2015 by apinknightmare

[SonofaBiscuit]

I'm confused. Where is the clip with Diggle?

 

This Variety one is the one we're discussing :)

[catrox14]

Thank you!

[calliope1975]

I am curious as to why Oliver hasn't clued anyone in. Even some sort of head nod. Maybe he's just mad no one clued him in on Roy's plan.

[looptab]

But he wasn't being fully himself. He was having to play a part to fool Ra's into thinking he was brainwashed.

We know that, but they don't. If they are acting this way believing he is brainwashed, I can see them feeling righteous about it even after they discover he was just playing the part. I can see them feeling they are right to be pissed at him. And that's something I can't understand, because, again, what were they expecting?

I don't think I'm explaining myself well here, haha.

[chaos is welcome]

But he wasn't being fully himself. He was having to play a part to fool Ra's into thinking he was brainwashed.  

 

ETA: Honestly, for all we know, Oliver might've thought that showing a little bit of ruthlessness towards his friends might've been a show of faith indicating that they aren't really a threat to his new persona to keep them safe in the long run - assuming he WAS in his right mind then, and hasn't had a breakthrough in the last week or something.

isnt that the point of ALL of this? Destroy your home, to show you have no ties there. Because love and emotional attachment are weaknesses, and Ras can have no weaknesses. So yeah, he definitely couldn't blink for this, he had to do what it took.

[apinknightmare]

I am curious as to why Oliver hasn't clued anyone in. Even some sort of head nod. Maybe he's just mad no one clued him in on Roy's plan.

 

Maybe it's the same thing that happened with Diggle and Felicity when they planned Roy's thing, but the opposite. He thinks they'll be safer if they believe he's really lost. If they believe he's really lost then they won't try to come and get him or break him out or do anything to jeopardize the plan he has. Obviously, the introduction of the A/O virus might change that.

[catahoulamama]

Here are his probable responses to outrage on behalf of Nyssa over the wedding/consummation nonsense:

 

1.)  What?  You're shocked that Ra's is EVIL?  2.)  What about Oliver?

 

He'll either deflect or blame it on a fictional TV character.  Never mind the fact that you and your team of writers are the ones making this shit happen...Matt Nable isn't just improvising his scenes here.  Whatever, MG, whatever. 

He already did this on twitter earlier this week.

 

Cor ‏@xoxoCorinne Apr 30

Forcing a lesbian woman to marry a straight male, no matter the context, mocks the plight of gay couples who can't get married. @mguggenheim

Marc Guggenheim ‏@mguggenheim Apr 30

@xoxoCorinne So it's just occurring to you now that Ra's al Ghul is evil?

‏

@Lindsers83

@mguggenheim @xoxoCorinne I would ask...have you consider the number of viewers who would/will potentially walk away because of this??

 

@Lindsers83  ·  May 2

@mguggenheim Are you concerned about potential backlash that could come after Wednesday's episode if an O/N wedding happens?

 

Marc Guggenheim ‏@mguggenheim May 2

@Lindsers83 Only from people who can't determine the difference between a plot twist and a political statement.

 

[Sakura12]

So Ra's can't even brainwash people properly, what is the point of him then? Last season they made him up as the man to fear above all other men. Now they show that he runs the lamest group of assassins ever shown on screen and can't even tell that his heir is faking it. 

[apinknightmare]

We know that, but they don't. If they are acting this way believing he is brainwashed, I can see them feeling righteous about it even after they discover he was just playing the part. I can see them feeling they are right to be pissed at him. And that's something I can't understand, because, again, what were they expecting?

I don't think I'm explaining myself well here, haha.

 

But Felicity is arguing that Oliver is brainwashed, that the person they know and loved is dead. Diggle and Laurel are arguing (at least the way the scene is presented) that Felicity's being silly to think that their Oliver is gone, that THIS is their Oliver - the guy who kidnapped Lyla and did all those things. Not that he's brainwashed, that this IS who he is. That argument (to me) takes out any consideration for the fact that the guy might be having to pretend and didn't do any of that stuff because he wanted to or to hurt anyone (and he didn't). 

[looptab]

But Felicity is arguing that Oliver is brainwashed, that the person they know and loved is dead. Diggle and Laurel are arguing (at least the way the scene is presented) that Felicity's being silly to think that their Oliver is gone, that THIS is their Oliver - the guy who kidnapped Lyla and did all those things. Not that he's brainwashed, that this IS who he is. That argument (to me) takes out any consideration for the fact that the guy might be having to pretend and didn't do any of that stuff because he wanted to or to hurt anyone (and he didn't).

And that's why in my initial post I said, why are they so pissed, what were they expecting? I mean it outside the brainwash/not brainwash factor, it just makes no sense to me that they'd react this way, no matter the scenario they are considering.

[catrox14]

That was such a badly written scene.  Good grief :(. That was straight up shitty soap opera writing and it's really sad because Ramsey deserves better. 

 

And it doesn't make any sense that Felicity is the say that's no My Oliver..and understands he's brainwashed but doesn't think he should be saved or something...? 

 

And really the dialogue.  Laurel says' "Sanguine" ...really LOL .  who the fuck says Sanguine in a comic book show. 

 

Sigh :(

Edited May 6, 2015 by catrox14

[apinknightmare]

And that's why in my initial post I said, why are they so pissed, what were they expecting? I mean it outside the brainwash/not brainwash factor, it just makes no sense to me that they'd react this way, no matter the scenario they are considering.

 

I guess my disconnect here is that I don't think that they're arguing that he's brainwashed or not brainwashed. It seems like they're believing that this is who Oliver is - that's why it's strange to me that Laurel says "how can you be so sanguine (ugh)" about it - like why is Felicity that optimistic about Oliver after everything they've seen him do - thinking that he's a good guy who was lost after he joined the League. The way this comes off to me is that Diggle and Laurel are arguing that this is showing them that Oliver just is a bad guy. 

Edited May 6, 2015 by apinknightmare