Spoiler Discussion Thread

[nksarmi]

"I think it's still open. (And since we don't know that Willa Holland is returning next season, I'd still add Thea/Roy to the mix.)"

 

How does that take into account Nyssa being at least as involved in the wedding as anyone else in TA?  For that matter, unless it is a sub-in, why would Nyssa be connected to an Oliver/Felicity wedding?

I'm going with it means that she's nor more involved in the wedding than anyone else in Team Arrow - if I don't count Roy as part of Team Arrow anymore and Thea is not yet part of it.  It's a huge stretch, but it puts her as involved as Oliver, Felicity, Diggle, and Laurel.

 

Sigh, ok I'm giving up.  It doesn't sound like its Thea and Roy damn it.

 

The best thing I can hold on to now is that IF Nyssa is AS involved as everyone else on Team Arrow - it must be a TA plot to kill Ra's/rescue Oliver.

[AyChihuahua]

"As for Nyssa and Oliver if there is be a cause of comics child there has to be sex since the league is old fashioned. And perhaps some proof of the union means a child?"

 

There won't be a child, because it's going to be over in a few episodes, and I cannot imagine Nyssa and Oliver will have sex.  More importantly, he already has a kid running around out there waiting to pop out of the woodwork to cause problems in S4/S5. 

 

I don't think it'll be Ra's and Felicity or Thea because if it went into the wedding night he would be raping them, and this show is not going to have a major female character raped in present day.  (I realize there's some question re Sara, but I was quite sure she wasn't raped on the Amazo, because of Ivo.  She was definitely ABOUT to be raped, but once she hooked up with Ivo she was safe from that.)

[nksarmi]

Not being nitpicky, but nowhere in that speech from Ra's does he say he was married.

 

Oh gods. And he really seemed to admire Felicity.....what if....it's Ra's and Felicity because it's the only way Ra's will let Oliver go free of being the Ra's al Ghul. 

 

Oh...gods....Talk me down....

Oh no....they did talk about what Felicity would sacrifice for Oliver....oh no, please no

[catrox14]

I'm not gonna lie. I really did like that scene with Ra's and Felicity.  I don't think it would go so far as him sleeping with her.  Of course. if he finds out that there is a little Arrowlet brewing he might be like well shit there goes the prophecy. Now what.

[apinknightmare]

All I know is that tonight's cliffie and/or the preview for next week's show better effing let us know who gets married. I can NOT take another week of this!

[olicityfan25]

What if they redo the whole Slade storyline but, with Oliver being the bad guy in the situation. Choosing between Diggle and Felicity per Ra's request? You think they would do that again?

[tarotx]

I don't think their will be a child but Bruce Wayne and Talia had a child So it's a worry. I can see the show making it seem they are wanting that direction...

[AyChihuahua]

Guggie already said Felicity is not pregnant.

 

I'd weirdly be fine with Felicity marrying Ra's for REASONS, as long as there's no sex, because any sex between those two would be rape.  She'd never freely consent to it. 

 

But seriously, it's Oliver and Nyssa.

 

Talia and Bruce is the whole reason for this stupid storyline, but there's an important distinction that Talia wasn't gay.  Also, I think Talia kind of dug him and it was consensual on her part, although I believe Bruce was drugged.  Nyssa being gay is, for me, the biggest reason this storyline is fucking disgusting. 

 

"What if they redo the whole Slade storyline but, with Oliver being the bad guy in the situation. Choosing between Diggle and Felicity per Ra's request? You think they would do that again?"

 

I think there's a decent chance he's going to order Oliver (I will never ever ever call him that stupid LOA name) to kill them both. 

Edited April 29, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[tv echo]

I have to say... reading all of your comments here almost makes up for this season of gloom, doom and dread.  

Edited April 29, 2015 by tv echo

[calliope1975]

It's like MG wants to offend the LGBTQ community and supporters. I'm sure I'm being too sensitive, but what the fuck, man? Please don't tease Nyssa/Laurel. Please stop passing partners around like they're interchangeable. 

 

Most importantly, please STOP RIPPING OFF BATMAN. It's not an homage. It's void of creativity and lame.

Edited April 29, 2015 by calliope1975

[blixie]

 

Nyssa would be connected to the wedding because it's her father.

 

I've discounted Ra's based on the idea that it's a major player and the continuing into S4 bits. I wouldn't consider Ras a major player, but I guess as the S3 villian he counts, but they've also said the LoA stuff will be wrapped up and is not continuing into S4. I just don't see that being Ras.

[Chaser]

Just watched the clip. What the hell was that? LOL

 

"No! I won't leave you!" Super dramatic there girly and the soft instrumental playing in the background. HAHA I'm sorry but that was really bad. 

 

And Oliver is wearing so much stuff he looks like he gained 30 pounds.

 

I have to say... reading all of your comments here almost makes up for this season of gloom, doom and dread.  

It's entertainment for sure.

Edited April 29, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[AyChihuahua]

Yeah, to be an homage you have to add your own vision.  Shaun of the Dead was an homage.  This whole season is a fucking blatant, uninspired, massively uncreative ripoff of a story that doesn't even fit these characters. 

[apinknightmare]

I've discounted Ra's based on the idea that it's a major player and the continuing into S4 bits. 

 

I'm not sure how much stock I put in MG's comments about the marriage continuing into S4, because if it's LoA-related and ceremonial, then there would be no question about it carrying forward. Why would it? Unless Oliver's not out of the League at the end of the season, I guess. 

 

Seems like for there to be any question about it carrying over, it'd have to be an actual marriage, like between Felicity and Oliver or Laurel and Oliver, and I just cannot understand any circumstances under which either pair would get legit married. 

[quarks]

If you want to completely ignore Katrina's statement that Nyssa is as connected to the wedding as Team Arrow sure, but I can't see anyway Katrina would either think that or say it* I ruled out Oliver and Felicity under the same statement, Nyssa gives not one fuck about Olicity.

 

 

I'm not ignoring the statement at all. The episode description says that Thea heads off to go find Roy, which means that if they do get married (and I agree it's an if) then yes, Nyssa is as connected to the wedding as anyone else on Team Arrow, which is to say, not at all - because no one on Team Arrow will be there.  (or what Nksarmi said.)

 

Leaving them aside, however, we have:

 

Pro Oliver/Felicity:

 

1. They're the main romance of the show.

2. Amell's statement that Felicity would be the only woman in Oliver's life this season.

3. The various wedding anvils for Oliver/Felicity.

4. The spoilers for 2X23 indicating Oliver/Felicity.

 

Pro Oliver/Nyssa:

 

1. Nyssa says Oliver has to kill her.

2. Batman comics.

3. This, from the MTV interview:

 

And I’m really happy that they didn’t decide that she would suddenly hook up with a man, that she was swayed into… They give her the honor to be what she is.

 

 

So yeah, I don't think the indications are that strong for Oliver/Nyssa. Is it a possibility? Sure. I just don't think it's a certainty.  

[tarotx]

Felicity and Ras? I just can't see a reasoning For that. Maybe Rape her with her permission cause he's a vilian But Marriage? He's barely had any contact with her. I can't even see a comic reason for it? Un heard prophecy? She who is in love with the next Ra's al Ghul must marry the current one?

All of this marriage stuff is just nasty nasty nasty. With some romance novel and/or comic contrived Vilian bullcrap...

[blixie]

 

I'm not sure how much stock I put in MG's comments about the marriage continuing into S4,

 

Yeah I guess I still don't think of Ra's one of the show major players. Kind of the whole problem with the season.

 

 

Nyssa is as connected to the wedding as anyone else on Team Arrow, which is to say, not at all -

 

I'm not equating connection to "physically present" at the wedding. TA cares about both those people deeply, Nyssa not at all, so yeah TA are still more connected to a Ray/Thea wedding/marriage than Nyssa.

Edited April 29, 2015 by blixie

[AyChihuahua]

"Nyssa is as connected to the wedding as anyone else on Team Arrow, which is to say, not at all - because no one on Team Arrow will be there."

 

How is Roy not part of Team Arrow?

[statsgirl]

Technically Roy's left Team Arrow to go off and start a new life.

 

Is Nyssa even a major player?  I can see Ra's as one because he is presumably the Big Bad this season but Nyssa has only been recurring in a relatively small role.

 

More than the wedding, I find incredibly offensive Oliver's line that Nyssa has to be taken back to Nanda Parbat for "her treachery".  What treachery?  Her father kicked her out of his life plan for her and so she left to go to Starling City.

 

That's the misogyny I hate about this show.

And Oliver is wearing so much stuff he looks like he gained 30 pounds.

I couldn't believe how chunky he looks.  It gives you a sense of how thin Karl Yune is that Maseo can still look sort of normal.

[Morrigan2575]

All I know is that tonight's cliffie and/or the preview for next week's show better effing let us know who gets married. I can NOT take another week of this!

just wait for the asian promo, that would totally spoil it

[apinknightmare]

More than the wedding, I find incredibly offensive Oliver's line that Nyssa has to be taken back to Nanda Parbat for "her treachery".  What treachery?  Her father kicked her out of his life plan for her and so she left to go to Starling City.

 

Ra's told Oliver that Nyssa was claiming to be heir. I'm guessing that's her treachery in Oliver's eyes. Either that or leaving the League. Ra's let her walk away, but I guess somewhere deep down she'd know she wouldn't get to stay in Starling forever. 

[tarotx]

Roy is a part of team Arrow but If Thea was going to leave after season 3 why not just have the wedding 3.23 for true couple closure? I just don't see a purpose for a Thea and Roy wedding? Though they are the closest to a happy couple...

[AyChihuahua]

"More than the wedding, I find incredibly offensive Oliver's line that Nyssa has to be taken back to Nanda Parbat for "her treachery".  What treachery?  Her father kicked her out of his life plan for her and so she left to go to Starling City."

 

This show is overall quite misogynistic, and Guggie pats himself on the back for it.  I really can't wait for the summer hiatus, during which I think I'll finally be able to let it go for good. 

[tv echo]

Oh, man, I wish you hadn't put out there the idea of Felicity having to marry Ra's.  Now all I can think of is that O/F-riding-in-Porsche scene is Felicity's equivalent of 'thinking of England'.

Edited April 29, 2015 by tv echo

[kismet]

Have you seen the size of his sword?....

 

I'll see myself out..

Gosh I am so tired of this wedding speculation... that this was perhaps the best rationale for the wedding I've heard. Spot on! Congrats on the win :)

Trying to think of the most outlandish, shocking theory...

 

Nyssa thinks she is marrying Oliver, and both are in LOA hooded/masked garb.  But when they unmask, surprise - it's not Oliver, it's Sara!  

 

Ra's al Ghul - that devious matchmaker - has resurrected Sara and is now reuniting her with Nyssa.  Everyone is shocked and no one saw this coming.

He has gotten very romantic in the last few weeks. Candlelight dinners with Oliver. Inspiriational go get your man speeches. Reminisicing on lost love. It serves no plot purpose, but then again nothing about this wedding serves any plot purpose.

[calliope1975]

Hell, why doesn't Ra's marry Oliver if he wants him so much to defy all logic and reason. After last week's sexytimes high, I sure did fall into a bitter low rather quickly.

[kismet]

If you want to completely ignore Katrina's statement that Nyssa is as connected to the wedding as Team Arrow sure, but I can't see anyway Katrina would either think that or say it* I ruled out Oliver and Felicity under the same statement, Nyssa gives not one fuck about Olicity.

 

*leaving aside trolling in general. It's totally reasonable given the evidence to the most likely scenario is Oliver and Nyssa. I say this as the only person around who actually WANTS it to be Oliver/Felicity.

Well consider me someone who actually wants it to be O/F. I want it to be part of a well-conceived plan to take down Ras/LoA. But out of all of the available options the only pairing that I want to see complete a marriage ceremony in the present is O/F. I sincerely believe that there will be a switcheroo with a reveal in 323. I don't envision the whole red wedding slice/dice'm of Ras during the ceremony. However, if his plan rests on a O/N wedding & they stop that then perhaps they can stop his other plans. It will reverse perhaps whatever Ras has set in motion.

 

I know the wedding will mean nothing outside of NP. Which is why it is the perfect O/F s4 we're married, but not - so we have all season to figure out what we really want to do. But I don't want Nyssa forced into a marriage for plot or prophecy purposes, its disrespectful to the LGBT community. I honestly cannot imagine that TPTB would be that tone death to actually follow through with a forced marriage Oliver/Nyssa. But I could see them playing both sides of the card. See we planned the O/N marriage because we love Batman, but we didn't follow through with it because it is not right. Look at what good guys we are, besides bringing back Sara, it will be part of their mea culpa for their tone deafness on some earlier issues. Plus look how crazy plotty twisty we are that we had everyone so amped up and then SNAP we tricked you again. Its the gotcha of the season. I mean its as predictable as most of their jump for the shark moments this season.

[tv echo]

So 3x22 is going to end in "the most insane cliffhanger" they've ever done, while Oliver is going to have "a serious amount of blood on his hands" by 3x23?  

 

I'm feeling more dread than anticipation for the remaining three episodes.

Edited April 29, 2015 by tv echo

[WaitandHope]

I love you guys.  Seriously, I am now hoping it's Ra's and Felicity...

 

I'm sorta treating tonite's episode like I did 3-16 - something I have to get through to get to the good stuff.  Since 3-16 turned out to be so good, maybe I will be surprised.  But I doubt it.  Even though I love the Nyssa character, it's hard to be excited about an episode where the hero is now evil, your favorite characters are miserable and torn apart and possibly irrevocably damaged.  I get it. Most of TV these days is anti-heroes and miserable leads, but I watch Arrow to be entertained and a little more hopeful despite the doom and gloom.   Maybe tonite will surprise me, but I am not holding my breath.   I know the set up episode is required, it just feels like it won't be very much fun. 

Edited April 29, 2015 by WaitandHope

[apinknightmare]

So 3x22 is going to end in "the most insane cliffhanger" they've ever done, while Oliver is going to have "a serious amount of blood on his hands" by 3x23?  

 

I'm feeling more dread than anticipation for the remaining three episodes.

 

Well, I for one am super excited! 

 

/sarcasm

[AyChihuahua]

"I honestly cannot imagine that TPTB would be that tone death to actually follow through with a forced marriage Oliver/Nyssa."

 

These are the same people who didn't realize they LITERALLY fridged a fairly major female character. 

 

I'm betting if there's a twist it's that Nyssa and Oliver and hopefully TA have worked out a plan and going along with the wedding is something they're willing to do for the plan.

 

"Oliver is going to have "a serious amount of blood on his hands" by 3x23"

 

I'm guessing he's going to have to kill a lot of Ra's henchmen before it's over.  I can live with that.

Edited April 29, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[Password]

I HATE THIS STORYLINE.

[SonofaBiscuit]

"Oliver's actions in the finale are very surprising," he continues ominously.  "Any surviving cast members and the audience are going to be stunned by what is going on with him."

 

 

This all sounds terrible :(

[chaos is welcome]

So 3x22 is going to end in "the most insane cliffhanger" they've ever done, while Oliver is going to have "a serious amount of blood on his hands" by 3x23?  

 

I'm feeling more dread than anticipation for the remaining three episodes.

That entire description literally made me nauseous. Um, didn't we cover this whole hero/not a hero thing ad nauseum in the past two seasons?

I am even more concerned than ever that tiic are going to have ras ollie ghul kill someone oliver loves/cares about. Because let's make our main character suffer more.

Not what I am here for.

I expect the cast will be significantly smaller after the finale, and that is my ONLY hope for all of this.

[AyChihuahua]

Okay, so now I can't even watch the goddamn final episode.

 

Actually, I think this is just blowing smoke to make it seem exciting or like someone major might actually die.  He's not going to kill TA or Lyla or baby Sara, because he'd never come back from that.  If he killed or injured Lyla or Sara Diggle would never ever forgive him, regardless of brainwashing.  He probably just kills a lot of henchmen (fine with me), maybe Maseo (who's overall kind of a dick), comes close to killing Diggle, and threatens TA.  But seriously, this show has been making me quite sick to my stomach for months now...I am so tired of the horror and misery and angst, and just could not be angrier about Oliver being brainwashed.

Edited April 29, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[blixie]

 

I'm guessing he's going to have to kill a lot of Ra's henchmen before it's over.  I can live with that.

 

 

Yup, fine by me. Although I'm still pro dropping Ra's ass in the Star Labs prison vault, maybe letting the other meta humans practice their tricks on him? All of screen.

[Chaser]

Serious blood? Not all cast members make it? ....

 

Evil!Oliver kills Laurel. She wasn't mentioned in the article on the Flash. They rushed her storyline....

[tv echo]

Incidentally, that new TV Guide is their Finale Preview issue and gives scoop on about 15 shows, including The Flash, Gotham, AOS and OUAT.

[WaitandHope]

OK - the most recent spoiler means I can't even look forward to the "good stuff" coming up.  It all seems like misery from here till the end.

[Morrigan2575]

Wow that TV Guide article.  Good Lord, interviews are not supposed to turn the audience off.  Urgh, as if I wasn't already annoyed at the idea of O/N now this?!

 

No wonder SA tweeted out an apology for all that Evil!Oliver does tonight.  

Edited April 29, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[tv echo]

Serious blood? Not all cast members make it? ....

 

Evil!Oliver kills Laurel. She wasn't mentioned in the article on the Flash. They rushed her storyline....

Playing devil's advocate... That future Flash article is 9 years in the future, when both Oliver & Laurel are almost 40 years old.  It could be that she retired from being a superhero, married Oliver, and is busy raising their kids. Don't put anything past these EPs.  

Edited April 29, 2015 by tv echo

[NoWayOut]

"Oliver's actions in the finale are very surprising," he continues ominously.  "Any surviving cast members and the audience are going to be stunned by what is going on with him."

 

 

I hope this is when we'll learn that he's been faking this whole being brainwashed thing, that he's been keeping up the Al Sah-him ruse so he can tear down the LoA from the inside.

[apinknightmare]

I hope this is when we'll learn that he's been faking this whole being brainwashed thing, that he's been keeping up the Al Sah-him ruse so he can tear down the LoA from the inside.

 

Seriously. This is the only surprising I'm here for at this point. 

[apinknightmare]

Playing devil's advocate... That future Flash article is 9 years in the future, when both Oliver & Laurel are almost 40 years old.  It could be that she retired from being a superhero, married Oliver, and is busy raising their kids. Don't put anything past these EPs.  

 

But Green Arrow is mentioned in the article. Why not put her in there? Even if it's a legacy title and GA isn't Oliver and BC isn't Laurel anymore.

[Belinea]

I seriously do not want Oliver to go back to killing. I thought we were past that. Is he going to deal with the same issue again? Am I a killer or a hero? I seriously hope that the decision that he makes will be to not go back to being the Arrow and/or Al-Sahim and just be Oliver. 

 

As for surviving characters, I doubt that they will kill Felicity and Diggle. At least I hope they won't. They will not kill Laurel or Thea. So that might leave Malcolm. But I don't know about that. JB said that he would be back and already knows what will happen. So, I am not sure. 

[kismet]

"I honestly cannot imagine that TPTB would be that tone death to actually follow through with a forced marriage Oliver/Nyssa."

 

These are the same people who didn't realize they LITERALLY fridged a fairly major female character. 

 

I'm betting if there's a twist it's that Nyssa and Oliver and hopefully TA have worked out a plan and going along with the wedding is something they're willing to do for the plan.

I know maybe its wishful thinking on my part. But I feel like these last few eps get more oversight from the other showrunners & networks, so perhaps they will step in and give insight into how insensitive MGs plan is. Or maybe Im just on sensitivity overload with all the Bruce Jenner stuff & what is happening in the courts regarding marriage. I feel like marriage, esp LGBTQ marriages are such a hot button topic that someone higher up will step in. The marriage will be forced by Ras, but somehow N/O & TA will get out of it under the guise of it being wrong. That way they'll be able to have their cake & eat it too.

 

As for the female fridging - I don't agree with it. Nor do I like the practice of it, but fridging female characters is not uncommon on TV. Plus they'll probably just explain it away as part of Sara's ability to be resurrected. So in their minds, that will absolve them. Clearly gender roles in Arrowverse are a mixed bag as we have experienced this season.

[Belinea]

But Green Arrow is mentioned in the article. Why not put her in there? Even if it's a legacy title and GA isn't Oliver and BC isn't Laurel anymore.

 

Maybe she just did not help. Or maybe she was too busy to put on the outfit and therefore missed the action. ;-) I think they might probably just have decided to show the audience who will be there as a hero. Right now, Oliver isn't the Arrow anymore but Green Arrow will happen, the Atom will be a hero and Hawkgirl will be there as well. They just didn't consider Laurel. I doubt it means anything more.

[tv echo]

But Green Arrow is mentioned in the article. Why not put her in there? Even if it's a legacy title and GA isn't Oliver and BC isn't Laurel anymore.

I was joking (kind of).  But to answer your question seriously, the future news article says that the Flash, "with help from Starling City's Green Arrow, The Atom, and Hawkgirl, began fighting the Reverse-Flash around midnight last night."  If Black Canary is no longer active, then she wouldn't be out in the field helping in this fight.

 

Most likely, they didn't include Black Canary because the EPs haven't decided what to do with her yet (keep her in Starling City, ship her off to a distant city to form the BOP, etc).  Also, that future Flash news could just be one possible future (that affects GA and Starling City), which could change depending on what happens on The Flash.

Edited April 29, 2015 by tv echo

[Sunshine]

This all sounds terrible :(

It does but it also makes me want to laugh.  I might be more concerned if I didn't know about a Porsche, a blonde with glasses, and a sunset not to mention the title of 3.23 is "My Name is Oliver Queen".   I think the blood on his hands are LOA members. Usually someone dies in the finale so I am guessing he's trolling.  Surviving cast members - they could all get out alive although if Malcolm dies I might cheer. (Sorry, I am so over him this season.) I don't know if he'll continue to be Al Sah-him (The Arrow) or maybe the stunning thing is that he is hanging up his hood - regardless of color-and is going to try life just as Oliver Queen.  S4 rolls around he's back to heroing and being Oliver Queen and on his way to becoming Green Arrow.

[Velocity23]

She can always use that canary cry.