Dean Winchester: aka Squirrel

[MysteryGuest]

8 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I'm saying that I think the show perpetuates a division of intellect between Dean and Sam.

I agree with this 1000%.  I'm not sure why it should be a competition between fans.  Both men are smart, just in different ways.  And in ways that really complement each other.  It's not that the other "can't" do what his brother can, but it's either not something they particularly enjoy, or not their strong suit.  I don't know why they need to make one brother inept just to show that the other brother is smart about something.  

[catrox14]

2 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

All good! I like seeing positive posts about Dean and wanted to share. Not looking for a co-sign; just thought that others might enjoy the read.

Oh it was totally Dean positive. I wasn't trying to imply anything differently. I was trying to say that I think Dean is defended more in fandom than how inconsistent his intellect is shown in the show

[DeeDee79]

1 minute ago, catrox14 said:

Oh it was totally Dean positive. I wasn't trying to imply anything differently. I was trying to say that I think Dean is defended more in fandom than how inconsistent his intellect is shown in the show

I get what you're saying. But the fact that Dean fans feel the need to defend shows that the incidents on the show when they press the Brains vs Brawn trope does seem to stick with some of fandom which I think sucks.

6 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

 I'm not sure why it should be a competition between fans.  Both men are smart, just in different ways.  And in ways that really complement each other.  It's not that the other "can't" do what his brother can, but it's either not something they particularly enjoy, or not their strong suit.  I don't know why they need to make one brother inept just to show that the other brother is smart about something.  

This is very true!

[catrox14]

10 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

I’m not looking to get into a bitch vs jerk style debate about who is better at what. I’m conceding from the start Dean’s the better mechanic. However, werent we shown a few scenes in season 3 where Dean taught Sam about fixing cars? He meant it in preparation for Sam having to do it on his own once Dean was dead. While I’d say Dean would fix a car more efficiently and expertly than Sam. I personally think “Sam couldn’t fix a car to save his life” is a bit of an exaggeration. 

Actually, I'm not exaggerating on that. And it's not a dig on Sam either. But I'll take my reply to B v J since that's what this will end up as when I defend my position. it'

[bozodegama]

I feel these days as if I’m mourning Dean Winchester.  It’s like the old Dean Winchester is no longer here, he’s been practically written out of the show. I feel like i lost an old friend.  I really need to see him shoot or stab  a bad guy, do something brave for his family, say something hysterical, be a badass even cry.  Come on, show, we really need Dean back in these dark times.

[catrox14]

http://sensitivehandsomeactionman.tumblr.com/post/171188130016/sensitivehandsomeactionman-writer-robbie-thompson

[catrox14]

I like this take on Dean in this episode. I thought it was Jensen trying to not laugh but maybe not

 

http://dustydreamsanddirtyscars.tumblr.com/post/171171496766

Quote

13x13 “Devil’s Bargain”
“Eventually.”

It may be an unpopular opinion, but yes, I hope that eventually - no hopefully - the Winchesters will kill Lucifer this season (Please, please, please!!!). I’d like it a lot if Dean was the one to use the broken Michael sword for that (if the show remembers that Dean picked it up that is) and not Apocalypse!Michael or Gabriel. But all of that is actually not what I wanted to briefly mention tbh, I wanted to talk about Dean’s facial expressions here, because man, they are quite something and definitely made me think of the MoC arc and the moments Dean thoroughly enjoyed the rush of a hunt, the eventual kill, etc.. In any caseI guess at least to some extent the audience was meant to wonder what Dean thought about in that moment when he bites his lip for example. I personally had to think of Hell and what Dean experinced there and also what he himself ended up doing (to me it definitely seems that Dean is pondering how him and Sam could make Lucifer suffer most), because he couldn’t take being ripped to apaprt any longer (wraps Dean into a hug and never lets go).

[DittyDotDot]

10 hours ago, DeeDee79 said:

Great rebuttal in regards to fans who buy into the "Sam is the brains, Dean is the brawn" bullcrap: https://thejabberwock.tumblr.com/post/171169874682/im-not-saying-deans-stupid-but-what-evidence-do

 

My rebuttal is always, there's a difference between education and intelligence that seems to be lost on this debate. Intelligence is something internal that one is born with that can be developed and enhanced through education, but having education does not indicate a higher intelligence than someone without it. Basically, intelligence cannot be measured by the books you read or the facts you know, but how you apply and use knowledge.

Dean is clearly a genius; he makes connections and problem solves with ease--basically using knowledge effectively. They are both very intelligent men, IMO, just that Dean is naturally intelligent while I think Sam developed his intelligence through education. 

ETA: Also, IMO, "brawn" is an intelligence. There are supposedly eight types of intelligence: visual, logical-mathematical, linguistic, spatial, bodily-kinesthetic, musical, interpersonal, intrapersonal and naturalist. Bodily/kinesthetic intelligence is basically brawn--being bodily aware and having fine and gross motor skills more advanced than the average person.

Edited February 23, 2018 by DittyDotDot

[DeeDee79]

30 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

My rebuttal is always, there's a difference between education and intelligence that seems to be lost on this debate. Intelligence is something internal that one is born with that can be developed and enhanced through education, but having education does not indicate a higher intelligence than someone without it. Basically, intelligence cannot be measured by the books you read or the facts you know, but how you apply and use knowledge.

Dean is clearly a genius; he makes connections and problem solves with ease--basically using knowledge effectively. They are both very intelligent men, IMO, just that Dean is naturally intelligent while I think Sam developed his intelligence through education. 

ETA: Also, IMO, "brawn" is an intelligence. There are supposedly eight types of intelligence: visual, logical-mathematical, linguistic, spatial, bodily-kinesthetic, musical, interpersonal, intrapersonal and naturalist. Bodily/kinesthetic intelligence is basically brawn--being bodily aware and having fine and gross motor skills more advanced than the average person.

 

Thanks for the input but as I stated in another post I personally thought that it was an interesting read about Dean and so I brought it over for others to read on his thread. Furthermore I’m not the one who wrote the actual post so I’m not sure why you’re directing this opinion to me.

Edited February 23, 2018 by DeeDee79

[ILoveReading]

31 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

ETA: Also, IMO, "brawn" is an intelligence.

The show doesn't focus on this.  They define brawn as muscle.  The words were even included in the show when they introduced the Men of Letters when they called Sam and Dean the brains and the brawn.    It was clearly implied, Sam= Smarts, Dean= muscles.

I remember I was on Archive Our Own looking for a fan fic to read, and I came across one tagged, SmartDean AU.  So the show must be failing somewhere if fans have the impression that some feel the need to tag their fics as an alternate universe  for it to be believable for  Dean to be considered smart.  I also remember there being a debate among fans that Dean wasn't Dean at the start of s11 because he used the word untenable.

I agree Dean's a genius.   But unfortunately the show doesn't acknowledge Dean's intelligence.  I know we had Sam call Dean a genius, but then the the next two eps had Sam be the expert in lore while Dean was reduced to bodyguard/cheerleader.  Basically, "the grunt".   I do find Sam looks down on Dean more often then not.  He still seems shocked Dean reads. 

This is why I disliked The Scorpion and the Frog.  It was the prefect opportunity to show off the different kinds of intelligence Sam and Dean possess.  But it seems to go out of the way to perpetuate the Smart Sam/Grunt Dean stereotype. 

From the opening scene with Bart where he calls Sam "the smart one" while Dean is shown to eat pie given to him by a demon.  They had Sam translating the spell.  Sam knowing the difference between between the fangs and then figuring out the out of the box solution to getting across the floor.  The show has established in the past that Dean's good with pattern and symbols.  I was so disappointed when they didn't write him figuring it out, or at least coming up with the idea of strapping Shrike to the cart.

Dean's hell time was was again mostly comic relief, and there was the over the top freaking out about sticking his hand into the statue and once again needing to be saved. 

IMO, its episodes exactly like this and Sam acting shocked when Dean does something brainy is why some fans question Dean's intelligence. 

Edited February 23, 2018 by ILoveReading

[DittyDotDot]

14 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

Thanks for the input but as I stated in another post I personally thought that it was an interesting read about Dean and so I brought it over for others to read on his thread. Furthermore I’m not the one who wrote the actual post so I’m not sure why you’re directing this opinion to me.

I wasn't directing anything at you, I simply quoted your post for reference since it had the link and was the beginning of the discussion. My comments were general about intelligence vs. education, which I think is an important distinction in this discussion.

Edited February 23, 2018 by DittyDotDot

[DittyDotDot]

1 hour ago, ILoveReading said:

I agree Dean's a genius.   But unfortunately the show doesn't acknowledge Dean's intelligence.  I know we had Sam call Dean a genius, but then the the next two eps had Sam be the expert in lore while Dean was reduced to bodyguard/cheerleader.  Basically, "the grunt".   I do find Sam looks down on Dean more often then not.  He still seems shocked Dean reads. 

Personally, I think it's fans who try to say Dean isn't intelligent because they think reading books is a sign of intelligence. Which, IMO, is wrong. It's a sign of education which isn't the same thing, IMO.

IMO, the show has acknowledged Dean's intelligence over and over and over again by showing his ability to use knowledge effectively--he makes the connections and find the solutions. If the show wasn't trying to tell me Dean was intelligent, I don't think they would've shown his innate problem solving skills from day one.

ETA: And, BTW, the show has shown Dean reading many, many times over, so if Sam feels like Dean doesn't read that only tells me that Sam doesn't know as much as Sam thinks he does--and that he's a snob--but certainly doesn't show me anything about Dean's intelligence.

Edited February 23, 2018 by DittyDotDot

[ILoveReading]

1 hour ago, DittyDotDot said:

Personally, I think it's fans who try to say Dean isn't intelligent because they think reading books is a sign of intelligence. Which, IMO, is wrong.

Isn't this kind of contradictory.  If fans see reading books as a sign of intelligence I'm not getting how this leads to fans thinking Dean isn't smart since he's been seen reading and quoting various novels.   Like Dean said. "this dumb ape has read a book or two."

I think its more on the writers who see education= intelligence because I think this is the message they mostly send.

1 hour ago, DittyDotDot said:

IMO, the show has acknowledged Dean's intelligence over and over and over again by showing his ability to use knowledge effectively--he makes the connections and find the solutions. If the show wasn't trying to tell me Dean was intelligent, I don't think they would've shown his innate problem solving skills from day one.

I probably worded this badly, as I do agree that signs of Dean's smarts are there, but its more a case of the tell not matching the show.   We see Dean memorize Balthazar's spell after seeing it once in the French Mistake, but we don't see characters talking about how smart Dean is, that often.  The one time I remember was Sam calling Dean a genius at lore.  But that was followed up with two episodes of Dean not knowing the lore.   I can think of plenty of examples of monsters, demons and bad guys calling Dean dumb, but it rare there is follow up with someone actually speaking up for Dean or allowing Dean to speak for himself.

Crowley was the only character I found to be consistent in not underestimating Dean.

When the only character that consistently stands up for Dean is the king of Hell,  I think this is were there is the big disconnect.  I think its a gap that widening exponentially under Dabb.

Edited February 23, 2018 by ILoveReading

[DittyDotDot]

25 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

I probably worded this badly, as I do agree that signs of Dean's smarts are there, but its more a case of the tell not matching the show.   We see Dean memorize Balthazar's spell after seeing it once in the French Mistake, but we don't see characters talking about how smart Dean is, that often.  The one time I remember was Sam calling Dean a genius at lore.  But that was followed up with two episodes of Dean not knowing the lore.   I can think of plenty of examples of monsters, demons and bad guys calling Dean dumb, but it rare there is follow up with someone actually speaking up for Dean or allowing Dean to speak for himself.

Crowley was the only character I found to be consistent in not underestimating Dean.

When the only character that consistently stands up for Dean is the king of Hell,  I think this is were there is the big disconnect.  I think its a gap that widening exponentially under Dabb.

Actually, I think this is an important character trait for Dean and further shows his intelligence. I think he likes people to see him as dumb and underestimate him so he can surprise them with how smart he actually is. The show has shown me Dean's intelligence over and over again, I don't need character to tell me something they've already shown me. In fact, Crowley being the only one to not underestimate Dean shows me how smart Crowley is, and how unintelligent the other "monsters" are, but tells me nothing about Dean's actual intelligence.

30 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Isn't this kind of contradictory.  If fans see reading books as a sign of intelligence I'm not getting how this leads to fans thinking Dean isn't smart since he's been seen reading and quoting various novels.   Like Dean said. "this dumb ape has read a book or two."

What I was trying to say is that I think it's some fans who are obsessed with Dean not being portrayed as smart simply because he doesn't read as much as Sam does--not that he doesn't read at all--but the show has shown me Dean's intelligence over and over again. So, IMO, it's not the show who isn't acknowledging Dean's intelligence.

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, DittyDotDot said:

Personally, I think it's fans who try to say Dean isn't intelligent because they think reading books is a sign of intelligence. Which, IMO, is wrong. It's a sign of education which isn't the same thing, IMO.

Yes, thank you.  I got into a discussion on another board.  I believe it was after Slumber Party where Dean was giving Sam a hard time about reading Game of Thrones.  Someone said it was canon that Dean reads and read literature.  I said that was taking it a bit far.  Dean does read, but he clearly isn't an avid bookworm. Anyway, someone else accused me of calling Dean stupid, which I was not.  Blah blah blah.  Other person asked something about trusting someone to learn something without reading.  Well, yes, I absolutely do. I wouldn't want heart surgery performed on me by someone who had just read about it in a book.  Even if they had memorized that book. I imagine that most of the stuff Dean is the best at--car repair, gun maintenance, building EMF meters (not saying this is all he can do) he learned by hands-on instruction and tinkering around and figuring out things for himself.  That's a valuable skill that not everybody has.  

[Pondlass1]

9 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

So, IMO, it's not the show who isn't acknowledging Dean's intelligence.

I think Dabb views Dean a bit differently than past showrunners.  I don't think he has the capacity to  'get' Dean.  So... thank goodness for Jensen.

45 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

rowley was the only character I found to be consistent in not underestimating Dean.

Crowley admired Dean so much he wanted Dean to rule Hell alongside him.  He did 'underestimate' one aspect of Dean, tho.   Demon Dean had no aspirations to rule anything.  He just wanted to have fun.  And don't give him orders either!

I do get the impression Death had a certain respect for Dean.  It was an interesting dynamic that Billie has continued.

[Katy M]

1 minute ago, Pondlass1 said:

He did 'underestimate' one aspect of Dean, tho.   Demon Dean had no aspirations to rule anything.  He just wanted to have fun. 

Is that underestimating or overestimating?

[DittyDotDot]

4 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Yes, thank you.  I got into a discussion on another board.  I believe it was after Slumber Party where Dean was giving Sam a hard time about reading Game of Thrones.  Someone said it was canon that Dean reads and read literature.  I said that was taking it a bit far.  Dean does read, but he clearly isn't an avid bookworm. Anyway, someone else accused me of calling Dean stupid, which I was not.  Blah blah blah.  Other person asked something about trusting someone to learn something without reading.  Well, yes, I absolutely do. I wouldn't want heart surgery performed on me by someone who had just read about it in a book.  Even if they had memorized that book. I imagine that most of the stuff Dean is the best at--car repair, gun maintenance, building EMF meters (not saying this is all he can do) he learned by hands-on instruction and tinkering around and figuring out things for himself.  That's a valuable skill that not everybody has.  

It's a huge sign of intelligence: being able to figure things out without education, that is. I'm not saying I want a heart surgeon who didn't have some education, but it certainly is a sign a person is very intelligent if they could do it without any education. But, I'm with you, I'd rather have a heart surgeon who had experience--and hopefully a very high success rate--most of all. 

[catrox14]

In the pilot and throughout most of s1 and into s3, Dean was shown to be eager to crack a book, to read newspapers, to do research at the library. He was shown to be able to make gadgets like the EMF detector.

IMO, the problem with Dean's intellect and the perception there of by the audience  was the introduction of Bobby.  Dean was reduced to no longer wanting to open a book when just in s1 and s2 he would happily crack a book. And it really was removed in s4 when Dean would lie about knowing something but really it was Bobby that figured it out.   IMO, that's when Dean's slide into no longer being thought of as being smart began. The show itself took that aspect away from Dean whilst upping that he's the "better"  muscle.

IMO, the show itself is portraying Dean is such a way that it's leaving some viewers questioning his overall intellect, which includes both innate intelligence and learned intelligence. No one is born knowing everything about everything. Nor do I  think the fault lies with the viewer for not readily identifying one of the types of intelligence at play here for any character but specifically Dean given it's the Dean thread. Furthermore, I don't think the writers take those differing intelligences into consideration either when crafting an episode. IMO, if they did there wouldn't be such inconsistency in Dean's overall intellect amongst the writers. don't think brawn is considered anything other than a necessary tool to be used by a hunter but it doesn't necessarily mean the show itself thinks it's an "intelligence" for Dean.

IMO, there is little reverence nor respect given to Dean for his intelligence with mechanical things within the show. Nor for Dean being a great fighter especially when he's shown doing stupid things in battle as the plot dictates. So Dean's reduced even his brawn of late.  So I can see why, if some viewers don't recall s1 and s2 Dean they might come away thinking he is less smart when the show uses him as a plot device more than a character. JMHO

Edited February 23, 2018 by catrox14

[Katy M]

14 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

It's a huge sign of intelligence: being able to figure things out without education, that is. I'm not saying I want a heart surgeon who didn't have some education, but it certainly is a sign a person is very intelligent if they could do it without any education. But, I'm with you, I'd rather have a heart surgeon who had experience--and hopefully a very high success rate--most of all. 

Yes, but you would also want a heart surgeon that practiced on cadavers and did it a couple of times with an overseeing experienced surgeon, as opposed to just one who read about it, is all that I was saying. 

 

6 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

In the pilot and throughout most of s1 and into s3, Dean was shown to be eager to crack a book, to read newspapers, to do research at the library.

See, that's what I don't agree with. I'll give you the Newspapers, but I never felt that Dean was eager to research or crack books.  Bloody Mary, he said something about how researching was going to suck and Sam said it wouldn't be that bad until he saw that all the computers wre out of order.  Hook Man while in the library "so this is  how you spent 4 years of your life?"  Shadow: Sam "What was the last book you read?" Dean: pause, "OK, I asked Dad's friend Caleb(?)"  Provenace: Sam: "Like a Da Vinci code deal?  Dean;  "I dont' know.  I'm still waiting n the movie for that one." 

 

He could and did do it and was good at it.  But, it was never his favorite part of hunting.

[catrox14]

Also, Charlie's introduction undermined Dean's capabilities with computers.  He was taught hacking by Frank after Bobby was killed.

[gonzosgirrl]

I maintain my stance that Dabb-as-showrunner (with a dash of Robert Dean-isn't-very-bright Singer as his overlord) is the worst thing that ever happened to Dean Winchester and his fans. The Worst Thing. Ever.

Edited February 23, 2018 by gonzosgirrl
spelling, damnit

[DittyDotDot]

3 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Yes, but you would also want a heart surgeon that practiced on cadavers and did it a couple of times with an overseeing experienced surgeon, as opposed to just one who read about it, is all that I was saying. 

No, I'm agreeing with you. I want a surgeon who has both education and intelligence...and actual experience. 

[DittyDotDot]

8 minutes ago, Katy M said:

See, that's what I don't agree with. I'll give you the Newspapers, but I never felt that Dean was eager to research or crack books.

Yeah, that's my take too. It's not that Dean didn't have the ability to do it, but I don't think he was ever eager for research.  

[Pondlass1]

12 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

I don't think he was ever eager for research.

That's my take too.  They're both extremely bright.  But different.  Dean's all action but Sam's more into computer research.  But there is absolutely no doubt in my mind after 13 seasons that Dean couldn't do research just as effectively or that Sam couldn't fix Baby and do a 180 or whatever.

But lately, under Dabb, Dean is being systematically demeaned and diminished.  Sam finds him drunk on the floor, Dean can't jump a 4 foot fence, Dean can't fix the colt, Dean can't even eat properly, Dean does the shopping, etc. Little nitpicks.....but almost every episode now.

The show has definitely moved into lighter, more tongue in cheek zones, but  Sam is never the butt of the joke.

[DeeDee79]

4 hours ago, DittyDotDot said:

I wasn't directing anything at you, I simply quoted your post for reference since it had the link and was the beginning of the discussion. My comments were general about intelligence vs. education, which I think is an important distinction in this discussion.

Gotcha.

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

See, that's what I don't agree with. I'll give you the Newspapers, but I never felt that Dean was eager to research or crack books.  Bloody Mary, he said something about how researching was going to suck and Sam said it wouldn't be that bad until he saw that all the computers wre out of order.  Hook Man while in the library "so this is  how you spent 4 years of your life?"  Shadow: Sam "What was the last book you read?" Dean: pause, "OK, I asked Dad's friend Caleb(?)"  Provenace: Sam: "Like a Da Vinci code deal?  Dean;  "I dont' know.  I'm still waiting n the movie for that one." 

Part of the thing with Dean IMO, is that he is sarcastic and snarky early on. There is no reason IMO to think that Dean had been long suffering and doing research against his very nature since multiple things can exist in a person.

Dean was kind of mocking Sam for spending hours in a library which came after Sam mocked Dean for making an EMF detector.   To me, that was always about the brothers not understanding each other upon reuniting  vs Dean no longer wanting to read anything, and certainly wasn't because he wasn't a reader. Dean himself has said he's a reader.  He's mentioned things he's read. Vonnegut is not for everyone that's for sure so when Edlund had him say "which Vonnegut" that implies to me that Dean's read more than the show ...shows.   Unless those are the only two books he's ever read, and I don't think that's implied either. 

Dean himself says "I read".  When someone says "I read" that doesn't mean I read occasionally when the mood strikes. But more that he reads for both work and pleasure.  Sam mocking Dean for not reading in s9 IMO was about Sam being passive aggressive with Dean to compete for Charlie's respect.

Edited February 23, 2018 by catrox14

[Katy M]

14 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Dean was kind of mocking Sam for spending hours in a library which came after Sam mocked Dean for making an EMF detector.   To me, that was always about the brothers not understanding each other upon reuniting  vs Dean no longer wanting to read anything, and certainly wasn't because he wasn't a reader. Dean himself has said he's a reader.  He's mentioned things he's read. Vonnegut is not for everyone that's for sure so when Edlund had him say "which Vonnegut" that implies to me that Dean's read more than the show ...shows.   Unless those are the only two books he's ever read, and I don't think that's implied either. 

 

Moved my response to bitch/jerk as I responded to the 'passive-aggressive' Sam charge.

Edited February 23, 2018 by Katy M

[catrox14]

2 hours ago, Katy M said:

He could and did do it and was good at it.  But, it was never his favorite part of hunting

I wasn't implying that it was his favorite part of hunting. I'm talking about the IMO retcons of Dean as being allergic to research all along, (not true), or him being framed as too stupid to do it. Laziness comes and goes for the characters.

[bozodegama]

I see Dean as being highly intelligent, maybe not formally educated (he only has a GED),:but self taught as many geniuses are (see Bob Dylan).  So often, Deans instincts about people or situations are correct.  I believe even Sam acknowledges that Dean is a genius in one episode (He says something about Dean scrounging up lore).  Dean is extremely pop culture savvy and has many peurile intérests (porn, pie, westerns, etc) that sometimes make him seem non-intellectual.  I don’t see it that way, though.  I think his interests make him more of a “everyday man” (or just a “guy”) compared to Sam, who has more intellectual interests (French film, books, Saturday ny times crosswords).  That doesn’t make him less smart, just more well rounded and real, imo.  Plus, he’s got great taste in music.  His favorite song, Led zeps cover of Traveling Riverside Blues, was first recorded by Robert Johnson (early blues, alleged soul-selling guitar great) and is probably the first rock and roll song ever recorded.  Lastly, you have to have real intelligence to have that strong sense of humor that Dean has.  He’s extremely funny, hysterical at times.

[ILoveReading]

http://deanmaniac.tumblr.com/post/171323270219/veneredirimmel-kirampd-replied-to-your-post

I thought this was an interesting Meta on Dean.

[DeeDee79]

Nice look at Dean & Benny's friendship. I agree with her reasoning: http://hunenka.tumblr.com/post/152480276604/day-29-relationship-deans-relationship-with

[Pondlass1]

1 hour ago, DeeDee79 said:

Nice look at Dean & Benny's friendship. I agree with her reasoning: http://hunenka.tumblr.com/post/152480276604/day-29-relationship-deans-relationship-with

Jensen has chemistry with other actors who can actually act.  And Ty (Benny) is one of these actors.  I loved these two characters together and bought into the storyline immediately.  Jensen cannot infuse chemistry where there is none unfortunately - (as has been the case with the few females he's been hitched to).  

Edited February 27, 2018 by Pondlass1

[Pondlass1]

Did anyone watch the Vegas panels yet?  Rarely any questions about the show these days but someone did ask about Dean's leather jacket.  Jensen seemed quite cross that it had been stolen and hoped the thief enjoys a shitty life.  

I'm probably in the minority but I'm glad the coat is gone.  It was ok for early episodes but I didn't want it to still be Dean's outerwear 13 years later. A really ugly leather jacket appeared about 5 years ago, but fortunately it was destroyed in the script.

I like what Dean wears.  I just wish they donned short sleeve, snug t-shirts while in the bunker (is it that cold that 3 layers are necessary?). But with Jensen's new tattoo this is probably not going to happen. :(

[Casseiopeia]

1 hour ago, Pondlass1 said:

I'm probably in the minority but I'm glad the coat is gone.

You aren't the only one.  I always thought that coat was too big for Jensen/Dean.  It kind of swallowed him.

[gonzosgirrl]

26 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

You aren't the only one.  I always thought that coat was too big for Jensen/Dean.  It kind of swallowed him.

Yup, it was like a metaphoric mantle for the burdens John foisted on Dean. I lurve me some Dean in leather, but I don't miss that coat.

[ILoveReading]

I dont miss the coat either.  It always seems to big and impractical for hunting. 

I did like the one he lost in purgatory though.

[Casseiopeia]

I kind of like this one.  Yes impractical for hunting but still....

 

Edited February 27, 2018 by Casseiopeia

[catrox14]

2 hours ago, Pondlass1 said:

I'm probably in the minority but I'm glad the coat is gone.  It was ok for early episodes but I didn't want it to still be Dean's outerwear 13 years later. A really ugly leather jacket appeared about 5 years ago, but fortunately it was destroyed in the script.

I like what Dean wears.  I just wish they donned short sleeve, snug t-shirts while in the bunker (is it that cold that 3 layers are necessary?). But with Jensen's new tattoo this is probably not going to happen. :(

Are you talking about the Purgatory jacket? I liked that one. Would have preferred a different color but still liked it.

Or that ugly ass yellow gold monstrosity in s9? I never want to see that one again.

40 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Yup, it was like a metaphoric mantle for the burdens John foisted on Dean. I lurve me some Dean in leather, but I don't miss that coat.

Same. I was always hoping they would have written it that once Sam went to Hell and Dean went to civilian life with Lisa he decided to give the jacket to someone else. Or just sent it to Bobby, who decided to just burn it or whatever LOL. 

Edited February 27, 2018 by catrox14

[ahrtee]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

Or just sent it to Bobby, who decided to just burn it or whatever LOL. 

Salt and burn?  Or else the ghost of the cow will come back to haunt them. :)

[catrox14]

10 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

Salt and burn?  Or else the ghost of the cow will come back to haunt them. :)

No, more of burning it out of spite for competing Dad reasons.

Edited February 27, 2018 by catrox14

[Myrelle]

Well, I'm going to buck the current consensus about Dean's/John's leather jacket and say that I loved it. It was a  Man's Coat and Dean made it his own in spite of it being a hand-me-down from dear old dad.

The things he could do while wearing that beast of a jacket were simply Amazing, IMO. The beheading of that vamp in Bloodlust while wearing that coat was what made Dean THE Dean to me.

So I'm with Jensen in hoping that who ever stole it has a shitty life forever after-or until they return it, FWIW.

Edited February 28, 2018 by Myrelle

[Myrelle]

19 hours ago, Pondlass1 said:

  Jensen cannot infuse chemistry where there is none unfortunately - (as has been the case with the few females he's been hitched to).  

 

And I'm going to dispute this, for the most part, also.

I think that one of Jensen's greatest skills as an actor lies in his ability to call up the best in any actor who shares scenes with him, and he does this simply through his more calm and subtle approach to acting in general. It's like it rubs off on other actors. He's done it for me on this show with so many other actors and actresses that I can't even begin to name them all, but Katie Cassidy and Ruth Connell both fell into this category for me.

And that's only two examples. There have been a ton of others on this show for me over the years. Lisa Berry, too, just this season.

Edited February 28, 2018 by Myrelle

[Pondlass1]

I'd love to see Dean in black leather jacket.  It just seems something he would buy when shopping for casual non-hunting type clothes.

[gonzosgirrl]

4 hours ago, Pondlass1 said:

I'd love to see Dean in black leather jacket.  It just seems something he would buy when shopping for casual non-hunting type clothes.

And they keep using a nice one in promo shots - let him wear the darn thing!

[Pondlass1]

Well, that's annoying. Justin bieber's birthday is the same day as Jensen's.  I keep getting his hashtag!

(apologies to Justin fans ?

[flyinghigh]

On 2/23/2018 at 6:57 AM, MysteryGuest said:

I'm not sure why it should be a competition between fans.  Both men are smart, just in different ways.  And in ways that really complement each other.  It's not that the other "can't" do what his brother can, but it's either not something they particularly enjoy, or not their strong suit.  I don't know why they need to make one brother inept just to show that the other brother is smart about something.  

I agree with you. In fact, I have realized I enjoy the show much more when I can appreciate the differences and similarities between the brothers. 

In many ways, together they present two sides - two aspects of the same thing. I can't seem to think of an example right now, but for a very long time I have felt when we see both their perspectives  only then do we see the 'whole' 

Personally, I relate more to Dean's perspective. Doesn't mean Sam is wrong!! 

[ILoveReading]

What are your top 10 Monster of the Week epiosde in relation to Dean. 

Mine are, in no particular order-

1.  Dead in the Water- I love this ep.  It was the start of the pulling back of Dean's layers.   I loved his interactions with Lucas and the fact that it established Dean is good with kids.  We got to see Dean's vunerable side.  It sounded like he saw what happened to Mary.   Just an awesome ep all aroun
2. Ask Jeeves- This one was just plain fun.  I liked all the side characters.  Dean was smart and observant.  Plus, that expression on his face when he emptied the gun into the shapeshifter left me once again with the notice that Jensen needs to play a full on psycho
3. Skin- Again, I loved this one for the insights we get into Dean.  Jensen was so good at playing the shapeshifter.  He was Dean but yet he also wasn't Dean.
4. The Purge- For Jensen's performance.  I've gushed over it many times and we'll never not take the opportunity.
5. Folsom Prison Blues- I really like how this shows us how easily Dean can adapt to any situation.  Even its its prison Dean acts like he's been there for years.  I really liked his interaction with Mara and I wish she had been a recurring character.  I also liked how Dean's saving people, hunting things really means attempting to save anyone.  Plus, its another example of how loyal Dean is.
6. The Mentalists- Dean finally getting to give Sam the 'boo hoo whiny princess speech" was a breath of fresh air.  Plus, I liked Dean's interaction Melanie and I liked the case of the week.  I would really liked to have seen what the wrtiters, Ben Blacker and Ben Acker could have done with a second episode. 
7. Sharp Teeth- Loved Dean's interactions with all the side characters, and how we had smart, thinking outside the box Dean. (one of my favorite flavors of Dean).  On the shallow side, that knife throw as all kinds of hot.
8. Everybody Loves a Clown- Back in season two when we got casting sides, I remember reading them and thinking how bad the episode sounded.  I was so pleasantly surprised by it.  I liked Ellen and Jo.  Although I could see Dean hooking up with Ellen more than I could see him hooking up with Jo.   It's another brilliant performance by Jensen.  You can see just how much John's death, the guilt and John's words are weighing on Dean.  Jensen is so good with the subtle things.  That ending when he started pounding on the car is just another example.  Plus, this episode also gave me one of my favorite lines of brotherly banter.  "At least I'm not afraid to fly."  "Planes crash" "And apparently Clowns kill."  It still makes me laugh when I watch it.
9. Faith- This is one of  my all time favorite episodes.  I loved everything about it.  Dean's performance, his interactions with Layla, another layer stripped away.  It's my head canon that Chuck really did reach out to Reverend Roy and told him to save Dean. 
10. What is and What Should Never Be- for all the reasons listed above.  Dean's view of himself is really heartbreaking.  Given that Mary is really ice queen and that a warm loving mother is just as much a fantasy as the rest of this episode makes this ep even sadder.

ETA: Freaks and Geeks to this list.  It's to good not to include since its everything I love about Dean on a plate.  He's a leader, he's smart, he's a mentor and a badass.

Edited March 8, 2018 by ILoveReading

[Pondlass1]

Great list.  I watched Folsom Prison Blues just the other day.  Dean just fits in anywhere and the chicken ain't half bad.

But this resurrected Mary has spoiled my enjoyment of earlier episodes. somewhat  I wish Amara had given Dean some other gift - a black leather jacket for instance.

[ILoveReading]

1 minute ago, Pondlass1 said:

Great list.  I watched Folsom Prison Blues just the other day.  Dean just fits in anywhere and the chicken ain't half bad.

But this resurrected Mary has spoiled my enjoyment of earlier episodes. somewhat  I wish Amara had given Dean some other gift - a black leather jacket for instance.

A black Leather jacket is warmer too.