Casual - General Discussion

[Meredith Quill]

A place to discuss particular episodes, arcs and moments from the show's run. Please remember this isn't a complete catch-all topic -- check out the forum for character topics and other places for show-related talk.

[possibilities]

I really didn't get that it was a dream at first, and was expecting the corpse to explode in the casket. I was glad it didn't.

 

Not sure what else I think about the episode yet. It was not great or terrible.

 

I'm not sure I want to see another show about hipster woes (the brother) -- and how did he afford that house if he's essentially a slacker dude?

 

But I was actually intrigued by the daughter, after she actually surprised me in the later parts of the pilot, by not being the stereotypical nightmare teenager who has been over-indulged and so becomes a rebellious hellion. Her seemingly sincere apology to her uncle in the car, and generally acting sane and serious for a few minutes near the end made me think the show might not be planning a feast of stereotypes, so now I want to see if that's the case and where they take it.

 

I also thought the divorce negotiation was interesting because to me the obvious reason she wants to sell the house is that she doesn't want to live in the ghosts of the dead marriage. But she's apparently too wounded to just say that, or anything, other than that she doesn't care about the money. Her wanting full custody and not giving that much of a shit about anything else, to me says she's really still more hurt by the emotional rejection than angry about it, and that's also not the usual reaction we see. Usually hurt people get vengeful on TV or in movies. But in real life, I've seen it be much more common that people just don't fight, it's like they can't find the will to fight someone who they are used to seeing as an ally, so they kind of go limp. And the ex being the angry one-- he's the one who left, so why is he so pissed off?-- that seemed like a subversion of the usual trope as well. Usually the one who leaves is all drunk with freedom and acting devil-may-care in scripted drama, when in real life I've seen it be more that the person leaving is in fact angry and feels they left because of grievances. So... I'm curious what we'll learn about what really happened in the marriage.

 

Not sure yet if I think it will be funny on any level.

[sjohnson]

Interesting, I thought it was the Laura who didn't seem like anything much. But yes, not a cartoon monster.

 

It is not immediately obvious that someone as sexually open as Valerie would react to her husband's infidelity like a Fifties soap opera housewife. If there's more going on, it's not obvious, and for me, this undercuts the character.She wants to let the daughter have sex but says the daughter is wrecked by seeing the dad with another woman? 

 

On the other hand, Alex latching on to Leon shows there is more going on than meets the eye. I'm with Valerie on this one, jumping off the deck may be more impulse than an effective plan, but it still counts as an attempt. 

[possibilities]

I liked episode 2 a lot more than I liked episode 1. I'm looking forward to seeing where they take things.

[sjohnson]

Episode 3 is up. Thought it really brought out Alex's desperation. Being unable to relate to sexual partners is bad enough, but if the sexual dysfunction is symptomatic of worse to come? How bad is he going to get? Reaching out to Leon is a positive sign but still...

 

What is the age difference between Valerie and Alex supposed to be. She seems to me to be old enough to have played a role in raising Alex, which makes me think she's wanting to avoid re-taking the role as Alex faces some sort of impending crisis. Otherwise, I'm not sure what she thinks Alex is trying to make her become.

[possibilities]

I agree about how desperate Alex seems to be, and also I had not really thought he was pressuring Valerie much, but maybe she feels like just being around him she tends to list towards his dysfunction. It could also just be that as long as they have each other, she is tempted to stay inside that safe cocoon and not really deal with anything. I could see them reliving their childhood, bonding about how awful everyone else is-- like they did when they both went on dates and met midway through their meals to gossip about it. Maybe she just feels like Alex is a bad influence because he's content to stay desperate and cling to her, and she wants to push herself away from that dynamic.

 

I like how she and her daughter can have semi-adult conversations and the daughter hears her. It's so rare that a teenager is not made to seem completely separate from her parents or else totally held back by them.

 

On the other hand, the teacher-fucking is alarming and Valerie has no clue. She also doesn't seem to be paying much attention because she didn't know about the break up either. And Alex did know that-- so... Valerie does need to talk to her kid outside moments of discipline and updating her that she's going out. She is maybe going out a little too much, the way Alex is hiding too much.

 

Alex could have said he had taken the dog out, and the door closed behind him. But I guess he didn't care enough, he just wanted to sneak away and he didn't really care about what his hook up thought of him.

 

I was surprised by how grumpy Leon was. I liked Leon the first time he appeared, but in ep 3, he just seemed like a sourpuss.

[sjohnson]

New episode...Michaela Watkins is doing a good job of portraying Valerie's discovery of sex. I'm a little lost as to how the husband who couldn't satisfy her is able to land a twenty year old. Or since she hasn't had a sexual relationship with him in years why it was such a big deal when he started one, it's not like it was any of her business. But I'm really surprised that she was so unrealistic about her expectations with the young guy. 

 

As for Alex, this episode made it seem as if his algorithm is his scientific project to solve a society of men and women that he just doesn't understand. His disconnect from his emotions seems to be quite extreme. That said, the Jezebel scheme seems to be extremely dishonest. 

[possibilities]

I had the impression that the Jezebel thing wasn't planned. I thought the bartender was sincere, but after Alex dissed her (again, he didn't think he was dissing her, which in a way makes it even worse), she got upset and blogged about it, and then Jezebel picked it up.

 

I can see something like this happening in real life-- people blog about everyday encounters all the time, but it's usually not the case that the person they're blogging about has any public interest, because people who are public figures tend to not be careless enough to share their controversial thoughts and use their name at the same time without some kind of protective shield like a non-disclosure contract or whatever. Alex is just that messed up (clueless? low self-esteem? irresponsible?) that he doesn't consider the consequences of what he's doing.

 

If he had talked about having tried to have an honest profile, gotten no response, and then tried engineering a profile for bait, that might have been able to be spun into a commentary that didn't make him look bad, but that just exposed the superficiality of how people look for dates. But because he is the co-founder of dating service, he looks like a Machiavellian asshole, not a victim of "the system" who is an example of someone the writer had a good time with when they dropped the pretenses.

 

I thought the bartender was honestly having a good time with him and liked his real self more than his profile, but then he insulted her even though he thought he was giving her a compliment, and that ruined it. The situation is just very fucked up in layers and layers.

 

Though yes, if she did set out to entrap him and had planned to write about him all along, and never disclosed that she was a journalist, that's shitty.

[Corgi-ears]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure she wasn't a journalist out to entrap him. The show in fact foreshadowed things by having Alex say something to his partner along the lines of, "No, I don't [hate journalists]. I hate that everyone at the computer thinks they're a journalist. They're liars and gossip peddlers, but I don't hate them." OH HELLO DERE.

[sjohnson]

Even if the bartender just thinks she is a journalist, she still entrapped Alex by omitting that. Yes, I think it's fairly clear she was pumping him for information, an easy task since Alex is naturally candid and liked her too. The fact that he referred to her fatness without a shred of malice (as she knew,) would make the whole thing even more painful for her if she is invested in a self image as physically desirable regardless of "personality." If your notion of fat shaming requires intending to shame someone, then she wasn't telling the truth, but of course we can't expect an objective view in these circumstances. And being objective is hard, that's supposed to be what makes journalism a profession instead of a hobby.That's why running the story is so dubious. Lying and gossip peddling is wrong.

Edited October 22, 2015 by sjohnson

[possibilities]

Skipping ahead a few episodes....

 

The teacher sleeping with Lauren/the student was wrong. But then going for Valerie/her mother, and gaslighting the kid? That compounds it a billion times. Creeeeeeeepy.

 

Alex's relationship with Leon puzzles me. Leon seems to hate him, but Alex keeps going back... and Leon gives in (this time I guess that worked out for Leon). And then, Alex seems to want a serious relationship, but he says he wants casual, and he's unable to say no to anything offered, and he may not really have the skills for anything serious... but more and more it seems like he's not really happy with superficial anymore either.

Edited November 14, 2015 by possibilities

[Whimsy]

Skipping ahead a few episodes....

 

The teacher sleeping with Lauren/the student was wrong. But then going for Valerie/her mother, and gaslighting the kid? That compounds it a billion times. Creeeeeeeepy.

 

Alex's relationship with Leon puzzles me. Leon seems to hate him, but Alex keeps going back... and Leon gives in (this time I guess that worked out for Leon). And then, Alex seems to want a serious relationship, but he says he wants casual, and he's unable to say no to anything offered, and he may not really have the skills for anything serious... but more and more it seems like he's not really happy with superficial anymore either.

Unless I missed a very important scene, the teacher didn't sleep with Lauren.  She was hitting on him hard and he didn't shut it down, but he didn't act on anything.   He absolutely had to know what was going on, and I think he was tempted but he didn't act on it.  Doesn't make it any less squicky, though.  And then to sleep with the mother?  Puke!

[possibilities]

I don't think it was in this episode, but unless I'm mistaken, the teacher and Lauren did at minimum have some pretty serious making out in the dark room, and I thought they did actually fuck. I swear I'm not making it up.... unless it was a fantasy or dream sequence she had, and I took it for real?

[lanter]

I don't think it was in this episode, but unless I'm mistaken, the teacher and Lauren did at minimum have some pretty serious making out in the dark room, and I thought they did actually fuck. I swear I'm not making it up.... unless it was a fantasy or dream sequence she had, and I took it for real?

As I recall, that was a fantasy Lauren was having while masturbating.

 

A male teacher taking his teenage student off campus is just asking for trouble. I don't think the teacher was planning on sleeping with Lauren, but I find it hard to believe he did not realize she has a crush on him. He seems to have terrible judgement when it comes to bounderies, which is not good for someone in his position.

Edited November 18, 2015 by lanter

[red12]

I apologize for not making it through all the posts yet. But Alex is aware he is dating his mom right? Also, am I the only one who thinks the parents are child abusers? Have an open marriage if you want, but the kids shouldn't have to step over d___KS to go to the bathroom.

[sjohnson]

I don't think Alex is very aware of much at all. And Casual insofar as it is a coherent drama anchored on something, it's about whether Alex gets it.

 

For all the time they spend on Valerie, there's really not much going on there. Will she rediscover her sexuality and personal fulfillment destroyed by her dastardly husband? Unlike the rhetorical questions used as title for essays, in TV the answer is always, "yes." Michaela Watkins is really good, so this little excursion is like an amble through the park, pleasant but not invigorating I think. 

 

Laura strikes me as a fantasy, an unwholesome blend to my eyes of Lolita and a Earth Mother Nymph wise with glorious youth. 

 

I don't know why Emmy put that much time into Alex just to give up. I'm pretty sure she was trying to get over on Valerie so she could make Valerie shut up with Alex, maybe even leave. Saying she tried to blackmail Valerie might be a little too harsh. After all, that is a legal term, with legal definitions and trials and whatnot. But yes, Alex was trying to marry his mother. And in the first episode he dream killed his father. I think these guys have read their Freud.

Edited December 4, 2015 by sjohnson

[stanleyk]

Even if the bartender just thinks she is a journalist, she still entrapped Alex by omitting that.

 

To be fair, at the start of their conversation, she did ask him if she could blog about what he had said, and he said yes. The fact that he was dismissive of bloggers and then acted like a jerk towards her pretty squarely puts the blame on him for what ended up happening. I suppose she didn't ask him if she could disclose every minute of their encounter, but she did tell him she was a blogger.

 

I was enjoying this series - Michaela Watkins is great. But I have to say the events of the last episode kind of turned me off a bit. It seems profoundly fucked up that Alex appeared to be pleased that his sister had slept with his girlfriend in order to break them up, like it was proof of how much she needed him. But it was presented as...sweet? I guess? Not severely co-dependent and dysfunctional. I was entirely on Emmy's side in that conversation, but I wasn't confident the show meant me to be.

 

And, really, killing Carl? That was a bit much. And as someone who has been heavily involved in animal rescue, it also challenged my suspension of disbelief. If Carl were a seven year old pit mix, ok, I can see that happening. But three month old chocolate lab puppies in a large city shelter get adopted - at the shelter where I've worked, puppies are literally adopted within an hour of being available for adoption, and labs are the most popular breed in the US. And, also, it was super-inconsistent that the guy at the store? shelter? whatever that place was that kept a weird puppy enclosure in the middle of the store - would drop an unsold puppy at a kill shelter. Just...no. Weirdly specific rant over. 

 

Despite my irritation with the last episode, I'm still in on this show, because I have some affection for Alex and Valerie, and to see if Alex can start to get his shit together and to see if Valerie puts her life back together, but I find Laura to be completely insufferable and delusional. And the parents...oy. So terrible it's hard to watch. I will say this - I do hope the show acnowledges that casual sex can be fun and fulfilling. It started out that way, I think, but it seems to be veering in a much more conventional, judgmental direction, where casual sex is really empty and soul-destroying and what everyone really wants is a stable, long-term relationship.

[Ruby25]

 

 

I was enjoying this series - Michaela Watkins is great. But I have to say the events of the last episode kind of turned me off a bit. It seems profoundly fucked up that Alex appeared to be pleased that his sister had slept with his girlfriend in order to break them up, like it was proof of how much she needed him. But it was presented as...sweet? I guess? Not severely co-dependent and dysfunctional. I was entirely on Emmy's side in that conversation, but I wasn't confident the show meant me to be.

I think that was the point. The show presents Alex and Valerie as damaged people who only find true connection with each other. For instance in the episode where Alex asks her to stay and says they can be a family together. They are incapable of developing healthy relationships with others, but cling to each other, so when Valerie says that she couldn't stand the idea of losing him and slept with Emmy to break them up, he sees that as proof of her love for him.

 

It's definitely fucked up, but they're fucked up people and this is kind of what they want from each other. I'm not saying it's a good thing, but I do find it interesting in a dark, twisted kind of way.

[sjohnson]

Didn't think the first season was perfect, but it seemed to have enough to try the second season.

Doesn't seem like any one else is watching. 

Three episodes into the new season, we seem to have three story lines going. Maybe. Valerie looks for a friend, Laura looks for a school and Alex's company is bought out. 

Valerie looks for a friend is cringe comedy, well done, but hey, I'm cringing. Never quite sure if that's entertainment or not. 

Laura's search for a school suffers from the weaknesses the character had inflicted on her. She's acting like a very unpleasant woman while escaping any judgment because she's supposed to be a child...but she doesn't act like a child, or belong in a youthful milieu. 

Alex's company problems suffer from it being undefined situation. He didn't work there first season, so why does it matter what happens there now? The money issues are incomprehensible. Snooger is making too many successful matches for repeat trade is its problem? Really, show?

Leon does toss off one remark about Alex's being "potentially suicidal," but this season appears determined to ignore last season's arc. 

The individual scenes are still competent. And the acting is still good. But there's no story visible yet at all. 

[MaryHedwig]

Quote

Laura's search for a school suffers from the weaknesses the character had inflicted on her. She's acting like a very unpleasant woman while escaping any judgment because she's supposed to be a child...but she doesn't act like a child, or belong in a youthful milieu. 

I so agree. Laura is too old of a soul to be a child. Actually, Tara Lynne Barr is too old of an adult to play a child. I just found out that Tara she is 22 (born 10/02/93)

Edited June 16, 2016 by MaryHedwig

[amaranta]

I'm watching and, so far, enjoying this season more than the first.  I'm glad they've moved toward the family and friend dynamics for each character instead of every story being a setup for a random hookup.  Though I'm sure they'll still happen.

I'm even finding Laura more tolerable; she seems to have learned a bit from her mistakes.  I'm not surprised the actress is in her twenties; most of TVs teens seem to be.  I think she tolerably passes for 16-17.

Still loving Leon.

[7-Zark-7]

So far, this season is boring the hell out of me. Bring back the free wheeling bisexual girlfriend from Happy Endings... or something.

Edited June 19, 2016 by 7-Zark-7

[sjohnson]

Valerie's search for validation is okay I suppose. But it is remarkable that when these two really have a crisis the other is never there. 

The crazy ex was crazy (as her confession about the light bulbs shows,) and it is very likely she unscrewed the one tonight. I'm not sure I like yet another woman is the devil plot, it's been a little overused of late. 

Laura and her friend enjoying a malicious attack on the guy shows Laura is still Laura. 

[Rinaldo]

One thing I very much appreciated about the most recent episode is that Alex's invitation to a cookout, about which he knew nothing (not even owning the requisite equipment or food) looked headed for embarrassing disaster -- I was braced for a series of cringes. But in fact he seems to have carried it off just fine, no humiliation of that sort at all, which was a welcome subversion of expectations.

And Valerie's introduction to game night turned out happily in the end too. So, relative to most episodes, we had some happy outcomes.

Edited June 25, 2016 by Rinaldo

[sjohnson]

Alex's mental stability is the only stakes, so I suppose his belated discovery that he really loved this woman is going to propel the significant action for the season. I suppose Valerie will be indifferent to his real condition and Laura is still completely self absorbed. Since Alex essentially committed to Valerie in the first season, though, it seems odd that the show is forgetting that and building on his attempts to commit. Kind of anticlimactic. 

[sjohnson]

Apparently they don't show Valerie doing her job very often because competent therapist and total fool about relationships doesn't jibe well. Not seeing the red flag with the dude who barges in on false pretenses? She must be desperate for validation by a man's pursuit. BSing Drew about the bikes is not the same thing...therapeutic training doesn't remove the temptation to deny the ugly truth about your children. 

As for Laura the less said the better.

As for Tommy...the only thing worse than making a fool of himself over that woman would be his success in getting her. My impression is that she's been far too economical with the truth with her prospective husband. It's even possible she's subtly encouraged the new relationship between him and Tommy? 

So the question at this point is whether this story line is interesting enough to watch a comedy that feels it needs a "Previously..." As near as I can make out, the ultimate story is Tommy and Valerie 4-ever! Barring a literal consummation, there is no arc, whatever Jason Reitman may think. It's unclear how entertaining a climax to this story line could possibly be But meandering around as nothing fundamentally changes isn't all that entertaining either. I'm done.

[possibilities]

I have been busy, so got a late start,  but I'm finally caught up.

Are we meant to believe that Alex did NOT cheat on the old girlfriend, but his father told her he did, in order to sabotage their relationship? Or did he actually cheat, and his delusion that it is OK because he loved her, and blaming his father for the break up is part of his mental instability?

It seems to me that the first season was portraying him as arrested development and Valerie as a more normal adult who just lacked self-esteem and confidence. So she was stability for him, and he was boldness for her. Until the end, when it showed them both as sabotaging themselves and each other, thoroughly co-dependent and ickily messed up.

Now, I'm not sure. Alex seems to want to be honest about the business, not deceiving members. But he's got the worst judgment of any alleged adult I've ever seen. I mean, Laura is more grounded, and that's not saying much.

Valerie is back to seeming a little off, especially in that she seems to prefer the skeevy Tom to the decent Henry, and to generally lack boundaries that she really ought to have in her profession. But honestly, I've known a lot of people in the therapy business who are a lot worse, unfortunately. It seems like every needy neurotic and their skeevy best friend gets psych credentials and hangs out a shingle, so I can't really blame the show, though I admit I don't enjoy watching people be that gross.

Laura finding a friend was the most interesting part for me so far, and them now being lovers could either be terrible or great, depending on how they play it. I can't tell if it's sincere, or just a way of acting out for shock and naughtiness.

Am I the only person who thinks Leon needs more to do than be a side-kick? Him going off with a college kid living in a dorm made me not like him anymore. But other than that, I want to like him, and I have liked him, and it bothers me that he's the least developed person in the ensemble as well as the only recurring POC... unless you count the kid who gave Laura the drugs, and he's also sick. And the new wife of Val's ex, and she's always off screen. Also, she and the "girlfriend who can't play the game well" are stereotypes. I mean, wtf, show? You can't even be subtle about your racism?

[ruby24]

I think a good story for Laura would be to give her a really innocent, sweet, virginal boyfriend or something. She wants so badly to act like this cool, experienced, adult that it would be a better contrast to force her to deal with a genuinely nice kid her age and have her fall for him in spite of herself, instead of pairing her with a "bad girl" friend who's exactly like her.

Maybe next season.

[ganesh]

Anyone pushing me to go out with someone is just going to meet a ton of resistance. I just don't go for that. I don't get why this Harry is supposed to be so great either. 

I actually am enjoying the show. Alex and Laura are a little more interesting to me currently. 

[ruby24]

I'm liking it quite a bit. I can see that it's not for everyone, but I find the little "family unit" unique and interesting enough to keep me into it, and I think Watkins and Dewey are fantastic in these roles. I love the relationship between Alex and Valerie (this might be the best part of the show actually), Alex and Laura, and Valerie and Laura. Not so much into Laura on her own, but I think a better storyline for her could get me there. And I think Leon's funny.

[violetr]

This show is so oddly understated but I really like it. So far I think Season 2 is better than Season 1. Situations keep *not* being predictable, and I really appreciate that. Ex-girlfriend Sarah wasn't crazy - just angry and hurt. Alex's BBQ went just fine, instead of becoming a "Modern Family"-style disaster. And I'm loving Xanthippe from "The Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt" as Laura's new BFF/possible GF (I suspect it won't end well, but maybe the show will defy my expectations again). And Leon is just completely awesome. Love him as the show's moral center. 

One small point of contention - Alex's beard. It's so janky I find it distracting. 

[Whimsy]

On ‎7‎/‎5‎/‎2016 at 8:53 AM, sjohnson said:

Apparently they don't show Valerie doing her job very often because competent therapist and total fool about relationships doesn't jibe well. Not seeing the red flag with the dude who barges in on false pretenses? She must be desperate for validation by a man's pursuit. BSing Drew about the bikes is not the same thing...therapeutic training doesn't remove the temptation to deny the ugly truth about your children. 

As for Laura the less said the better.

As for Tommy...the only thing worse than making a fool of himself over that woman would be his success in getting her. My impression is that she's been far too economical with the truth with her prospective husband. It's even possible she's subtly encouraged the new relationship between him and Tommy? 

So the question at this point is whether this story line is interesting enough to watch a comedy that feels it needs a "Previously..." As near as I can make out, the ultimate story is Tommy and Valerie 4-ever! Barring a literal consummation, there is no arc, whatever Jason Reitman may think. It's unclear how entertaining a climax to this story line could possibly be But meandering around as nothing fundamentally changes isn't all that entertaining either. I'm done.

I was so confused reading this whole post until I realized you got the actor's name mixed up with the character's name.  The character is Alex.

I agree, though, with many of your points and also feel this show is just meandering around nothing.  And I can't stand Laura and don't find her storyline interesting at all.

[sjohnson]

Oops, I did switch Tommy and Alex! Sorry.

[Dminches]

On 7/5/2016 at 11:34 AM, possibilities said:

I have been busy, so got a late start,  but I'm finally caught up.

Are we meant to believe that Alex did NOT cheat on the old girlfriend, but his father told her he did, in order to sabotage their relationship? Or did he actually cheat, and his delusion that it is OK because he loved her, and blaming his father for the break up is part of his mental instability?

I think Alex did cheat but it was his father who revealed it to his girlfriend.  Alex now has a new understanding of her since he now knows that her behavior was likely caused by her realization that he was cheating.  I am not sure that relationship has ended...

[ganesh]

So did they actually have the threesome or not? Because Laura's gf did *not* seem into it. 

[7-Zark-7]

Yes, the threesome happened and no the girlfriend was not into it.

[ganesh]

No she was not, apparently.

I liked, "I thought it would be easier with girls." "REALLY?!"

[ruby24]

Man, I'm really loving this show. It's funny, because I can see that it may seem plotless and meandering for some, but for me that's the hardest kind of show to pull off and do well, and I think this is doing it really well. The acting is just superb, and the complexities of emotions, the tone that varies between melancholy and funny and the totally unique family dynamic between the three of them is just so sharply defined. I loved the frank conversations between Alex and Laura at the beginning and then Valerie and Laura in the middle.

It also has like the best soundtrack on TV right now. Has anyone else noticed that? I seriously look forward to the music in each episode.

Vincent Kartheiser is great too. He fits in perfectly, almost like a modern version of his Pete from Mad Men actually.

By the way, how many episodes are there this season? Is it 10 or 13?

I hope this can get recognized next Emmy season, but it seems tough to label it a comedy. I guess it has to be because it's a half hour, but I really don't think it should be. I'm usually pretty open about the category fraud (I thought it was okay to call Orange is the New Black a comedy, and even Transparent, because there were some outrageous moments and dark/absurdist humor that could get it there), but this one is REALLY stretching it.

Edited July 20, 2016 by ruby24

[ganesh]

A little too high and mighty, Val. You put your life on hold? Ok. And I like Val. I mean, the guy wasn't asking her to go to Paris for a month. It's a day trip and hike. You can clear out for a half a day. Sorry, you tell me to 'fuck off'. Bye. 

I can't get too mad at Laura because that's how she is. But I think she was faking a little with the gf. She's fairly self aware. 

[possibilities]

I agree that Valerie was totally ridiculous, and I liked that Tom called her on it. I would not want to spend a day with someone who was ignoring me and obsessing about someone else and spending their time on the phone.

I liked when her assistant basically told her, over lunch, to act like an adult-- not that harshly, but it was a dose of basic sanity there.

I think Laura was nasty to her friend-- she was cowardly by not being honest, and then trying to humiliate her in front of the guy. She should have just been decent enough to tell her she was sorry but she didn't want to be girlfriends, she didn't mean to hurt her, and she realized that for her it had been a fun moment but not something she wanted to continue doing. What I think is that Laura is attracted to danger and drama, so she was into it with the friend when they were "outlaws" and on the DL, but not interested in anything open and matter of fact and real. Likewise, she is into Spencer now that he's dying-- not commitment, total freedom, and shades of heroic suffering-- perfect for her drama.

Alex is the same impulsive dimwit he's always been. Apparently Sarah is, too. Leon remains the hapless sidekick with no story of his own.

The show is much less funny this season; it's not even trying to be funny as far as I can tell. I don't mind, but I agree it's changed its tone. It's no longer revivifying rebounds, adolescent rebellion, and the carefree manboy; I like that there are consequences, though. Laura did like having a friend, and she blew it by being cowardly and careless and callous. Alex sees everything blow up in his face and now what will he do? Valerie lost her friendship with Jennifer by being flaky, but at least she's trying to figure herself out after a lifetime of sublimation.

[Rinaldo]

Alex is a real piece of work. He's basically blown up his life (which has family doesn't yet know) for something (someone) he didn't even really want, just wanted to make a point with (or went after because she seemed unattainable). It's a pattern with him, but this is the biggest iteration yet. Good for Val for walking right back out again (for the moment, at least), and for Leon for taking off (I just never know why he shows up in the first place).

Bulls-eye with your analysis of Laura-Spencer, possibilities.

[ganesh]

Please tell me who I have to give all my money to so I can watch Val rap early 90s hip hop.

What did Alex think was going to happen? Of course, he didn't think. Yes, he should have probably said something about her moving in beforehand and maybe talked about what was going to happen next, but I'm not surprised what happened. 

I don't have a problem with Laura wanting to have sex just to get off. She's not ever going to be someone who talks much about what she's feeling, so expecting her to isn't going to work. You're watching movies in bed together. That's how she's going to express herself. Calling her on it is just going to make her dig in. 

Edited August 3, 2016 by ganesh

[EdnasEdibles]

Alex is frustrating but so is that woman (I can't remember her name). I think it's a fairly big leap to think that if someone breaks their engagement off for someone else, that you're instantly going to move into that person's house and change their furniture. Get your own place lady, get a therapist and figure out some crap in your life. Date Alex a little bit and get to know him as an adult. Sheesh. 

[Corgi-ears]

As fucked up as they are, at least Alex and Sarah apparently have an ultra-efficient moving company, one able to get her new furniture out of Alex's house within the hour. So there's that, I guess.

Edited August 3, 2016 by Corgi-ears

[ganesh]

I don't think either really thought anything through. I mean, she flipped out when she found out the fiance had a prior relationship with a co-worker. 

[possibilities]

I liked Alex reminding Valerie that she was living in his house, and the help (and sabotage) wasn't only going on way between them. I think she has to face her martyr complex, just as much as he has to face his impulsive and destructive behaviors. But I also didn't believe he loved his girlfriend that Val slept with-- I thought that was an over the top claim just to increase his own martyrdom drama.

Weirdly, Laura seems to be a combination of both of them. I don't know what, if anything, she got from her father-- who seems to have no interest in her whatsoever, and vice versa. Most kids have at least some visitation with the other parent after a divorce, right? The show has kind of forgotten about Val's ex this season.

Why doesn't Val ask Tom (or whatever his name is) why he lives in hotel rooms, or where he's going when he disappears for 2 weeks? I guess she's content to live in the fantasy, or too afraid of what she'll find. They have spent zero time whatsoever actually finding out anything about each other in the real world. Val never even asked Jennifer what's so bad about Tom-- which clearly J would have been happy to disclose.

Leon is the one who makes the least sense, though. What is he getting out of all of this? When they mentioned his sister, I thought: maybe he's the same with his sister as Alex and Val are with each other, and that's why he's letting himself get drawn into Alex's drama. Clearly Alex has made zero effort to get to know Leon or be there for him, so it's a completely one sided dynamic, which makes absolutely no sense at this point, and they need to show us something pretty big to explain it.

Spencer doesn't look or act like he's dying.

[Rinaldo]

46 minutes ago, possibilities said:

Spencer doesn't look or act like he's dying.

Without taking a position one way or the other on that (I haven't known many people in his particular position, where everybody knows his days are officially numbered but not right this minute), I find myself speculating about a future plot development -- something I rarely do, actually. I imagine a scenario when Spencer goes unexpectedly into remission and may live for years. And now Laura finds herself with a relationship that she threw herself into knowing it had an imminent end-date: does she want to be committed to it indefinitely? It was easy to go for him when it was guaranteed not to be long term; would she now stick with it, or be the horrible girl who dumped Cancer Boy?

[EdnasEdibles]

4 hours ago, possibilities said:

I liked Alex reminding Valerie that she was living in his house, and the help (and sabotage) wasn't only going on way between them. I think she has to face her martyr complex, just as much as he has to face his impulsive and destructive behaviors. But I also didn't believe he loved his girlfriend that Val slept with-- I thought that was an over the top claim just to increase his own martyrdom drama.

Weirdly, Laura seems to be a combination of both of them. I don't know what, if anything, she got from her father-- who seems to have no interest in her whatsoever, and vice versa. Most kids have at least some visitation with the other parent after a divorce, right? The show has kind of forgotten about Val's ex this season.

Why doesn't Val ask Tom (or whatever his name is) why he lives in hotel rooms, or where he's going when he disappears for 2 weeks? I guess she's content to live in the fantasy, or too afraid of what she'll find. They have spent zero time whatsoever actually finding out anything about each other in the real world. Val never even asked Jennifer what's so bad about Tom-- which clearly J would have been happy to disclose.

Leon is the one who makes the least sense, though. What is he getting out of all of this? When they mentioned his sister, I thought: maybe he's the same with his sister as Alex and Val are with each other, and that's why he's letting himself get drawn into Alex's drama. Clearly Alex has made zero effort to get to know Leon or be there for him, so it's a completely one sided dynamic, which makes absolutely no sense at this point, and they need to show us something pretty big to explain it.

Spencer doesn't look or act like he's dying.

I totally agree that he did not love his ex. He thought he should because she came up as his only match but it's clear he was bothered by her. He was finally dating himself and the lack of commitment bothered him. Her boyfriend the fact that she slept with his sister - this was not a good match for him. If it weren't for that damn algorithm, I don't think he would have invested as much energy as he did. 

The dad has been in this season - He told Laura that he was going to have a baby with his new wife. She stole a bike from him. I think he's starting over with his new life. He didn't seem to be in love with the home schooling plan but I think he realizes that she's practically an adult and if she doesn't want to see him, he can't force her. 

[Corgi-ears]

On 3 August 2016 at 11:12 PM, Rinaldo said:

I find myself speculating about a future plot development -- something I rarely do, actually. I imagine a scenario when Spencer goes unexpectedly into remission and may live for years. And now Laura finds herself with a relationship that she threw herself into knowing it had an imminent end-date: does she want to be committed to it indefinitely?

Nailed it!

That birthday episode was one of the funnier -- as in cringe-comedic -- ones of the season for me ("Wow, this is intimate. I'm already uncomfortable"). I've always loved Leia, and it was hilarious discovering what seemed to be a new side to her (where she had seemed kind of snarky and dry before, she was deliciously hippie-dippy with her poem reading).

[ganesh]

I wasn't surprised that the game night group slept around with one another. I was more surprised that it didn't occur to Val until now. I'm interested to see if Alex's porn algorithm pans out into something. 

How awful were those tattoos?!