Episode Discussion: TFGH

[peachmangosteen]

10 minutes ago, TeeVee329 said:

Something that occurred to me - I guess it was just the contrivance to kick-start Lulu's baby rabies slash her (icky) desire to find the Stavlu embryo, but wasn't the whole thing that Lulu was obsessed with having another child she could carry and give birth to herself?  Charlotte doesn't actually address that issue.

Shhhh. Forget about all that!

[LeftPhalange]

5 minutes ago, TeeVee329 said:

Something that occurred to me - I guess it was just the contrivance to kick-start Lulu's baby rabies slash her (icky) desire to find the Stavlu embryo, but wasn't the whole thing that Lulu was obsessed with having another child she could carry and give birth to herself?  Charlotte doesn't actually address that issue.

Lulu is desperate for a baby so she's willing to make compromises. I'm sure if some random person showed up to her house with a baby she would gladly take him/her without asking too many questions.

What is the status of the Stavros/Lulu embryo? Has it been destroyed until the writers change their minds or is it still out there?

[TeeVee329]

14 minutes ago, LeftPhalange said:

What is the status of the Stavros/Lulu embryo?

The Stavros/Lulu embryo that Stavros threatened to implant in Lulu at Crichton-Clark was actually the Valentin/Lulu embryo.  Stavros could not longer conceive a child so Helena had Valentin sexually assaulted to get a sample to use for the embryo.

...right?

[dubbel zout]

That's how I interpreted this mess, TeeVee329.

[LeftPhalange]

13 minutes ago, TeeVee329 said:

The Stavros/Lulu embryo that Stavros threatened to implant in Lulu at Crichton-Clark was actually the Valentin/Lulu embryo.  Stavros could not longer conceive a child so Helena had Valentin sexually assaulted to get a sample to use for the embryo.

...right?

So...there was never a Stavros/Lulu embryo? This entire time it's actually been a Valentin/Lulu embryo? Ugh, this is so ridiculous. Even Lost was (usually) easier to understand than this. 

[Oracle42]

Meh. Lulu is bonkers but Valentin murdered her brother. Despite my opinion of the Prince of Douchey Tides, Lulu loved him and Valentin killed him and moved into his home.  Charlotte will be fine. She's had 3 daddies in 3 weeks, ripping her away from the one who recently murdered a family member isn't going to kill her. In both the short and the long term there's not a good reason to leave her with him

Edited December 16, 2016 by Oracle42

[TeeVee329]

3 minutes ago, LeftPhalange said:

So...there was never a Stavros/Lulu embryo? This entire time it's actually been a Valentin/Lulu embryo?

Apparently so.  Stavros didn't know that Helena had to use Valentin's sample to create the embryo he threatened to implant in Lulu.

It's all so stupid. 

[TeeVee329]

24 minutes ago, Oracle42 said:

Despite my opinion of the Prince of Douchey Tides

Awww, you're sweet.

And yeah, it's not Lulu hating Valentin that's the problem.  It's her thinking she can storm over there and demand he give her Charlotte and fuck off forever and that that's gonna work.  Not.  It's called a court order, Lulu.

[Sake614]

I'd love to see Valentin get a restraining order against Lulu. The child has absolutely no idea who this woman is other than the crazy lady who confronted her at the hospital and started asking 'how old are you? when's your birthday?'. And she's supposed to suddenly want to go with this crazy woman because she's the product of Lulu's egg? Yeah I don't think so!

[HeatLifer]

1 hour ago, TeeVee329 said:

Something that occurred to me - I guess it was just the contrivance to kick-start Lulu's baby rabies slash her (icky) desire to find the Stavlu embryo, but wasn't the whole thing that Lulu was obsessed with having another child she could carry and give birth to herself?  Charlotte doesn't actually address that issue.

Yes. And I also think it's weird that she doesn't care if the child is biologically Dante's. It's all about Lulu and her wants and it's completely unappealing to me. And I don't even care about Dante, truthfully. But how is this story heartwarming? "Look, Dante, here is my daughter with some crazy dude I'm related to that Helena took advantage of!" 

[TeeVee329]

And you could actually do some realistic family drama with Dante struggling to bond with Charlotte the same way Lulu does.  But these writers obviously lack the subtly to do something like that without making Dante look like an ogre.

[HeatLifer]

3 minutes ago, TeeVee329 said:

And you could actually do some realistic family drama with Dante struggling to bond with Charlotte the same way Lulu does.  But these writers obviously lack the subtly to do something like that without making Dante look like an ogre.

This show has a history of portraying characters who are right to be wrong. Dante would definitely be the asshole husband even though he should be completely hesitant in this situation.

[Sake614]

I put this in the News thread but thought I'd post it here too since it affects today's show:

Due to President Obama’s end-of-the-year address, a new episode of GH will not be shown on Friday, December 16. As compensation, instead of airing a repeat on Friday, December 23, a new episode will air, so fans won’t miss a thing.

[tvgoddess]

1 hour ago, TeeVee329 said:

Apparently so.  Stavros didn't know that Helena had to use Valentin's sample to create the embryo he threatened to implant in Lulu.

It's all so stupid. 

The one thing that made me laugh yesterday was Dante calling it a "contribution" and Olivia's horrified face. Heh.

[Francie]

I'm making a weather-related pit stop from the barge. So Nikolas is dead? Dead dead or he'll show up in a week/month dead?

BTW, the overachieving perfectionist in me is rather distraught at seeing this "F" beside my post.  Really? Not even a gentleman's C? Hmmm,  get used to it or change my name? Decisions, decisions. 

Edited to add running commentary:

The young woman  in the blue shirt talking to Michael is a doppelgänger for my best friend in college. Which is especially weird, considering that Michael himself looks like someone I met in college. I'm having déjà vu all over the place. 

 Oh my God, if I hear the name Vallentine one more time, I'm going to turn it into a drinking game, but take everyone's keys beforehand. 

William DeVry and this Vallentine guy both have the same weaselly look about them. 

Two mentions of Spencer. I may have to quit watching this episode. 

This conversation between Maura and Weasel Face Number 1 is so boring that I'm trying to identify, and then judge, the alcohol on the wall behind them. Maura is playing exposition ferry right now.

Oh, and Robin is playing exposition ferry as well.  You know, that's only helpful if I care about the people they're talking about. But since I don't give a fuck about Claudette, I don't need to be filled in on her and Priest Guy's backstory. 

 Wait, there's a Charlotte and a Claudette?  Who's the idiot in charge of naming new characters? 

No lie, this fabreeze commercial where the guy steals the other team's mascot has more of a story then this current episode of GH.

Does Stafford have on blue eyeliner or do I need to adjust the color on my television?

Three more Valentine mentions.  I need another drink.

OK, press conference time.  It's saved me just in time!

Back to the barge! 

Edited December 16, 2016 by Francie

[dubbel zout]

1 hour ago, HeatLifer said:

And I also think it's weird that she doesn't care if the child is biologically Dante's. It's all about Lulu and her wants and it's completely unappealing to me. And I don't even care about Dante, truthfully. But how is this story heartwarming? "Look, Dante, here is my daughter with some crazy dude I'm related to that Helena took advantage of!" 

I HATE that Lulu felt drawn to Charlotte before even knowing she was her daughter. That's such bullshit, and I wish Lulu was more ambivalent about all of this. She asks Dante if he's okay, but I don't think she truly cares. Charlotte is hers, and that's all that matters. 

1 hour ago, TeeVee329 said:

And you could actually do some realistic family drama with Dante struggling to bond with Charlotte the same way Lulu does.

Or why not have them both struggle? Lulu being instantly in love with Charlotte is, as I said above, bullshit. She's a child of rape on both sides. Not that it's in anyway her fault, but both Lulu and Dante should be a bit squeaked out at how Charlotte came into being. And the Cassadine connection should cause some agita, as well. Not only from a legal standpoint, but from a "uh-oh, another Cassadine, the family history isn't the best" standpoint.

[TeeVee329]

2 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

I HATE that Lulu felt drawn to Charlotte before even knowing she was her daughter.

And meanwhile - and I know these were different writers - but there was no "I knew instantly it was my child!" stuff the million times she snatched Ben out of Britt or Nikolas' arms before she found out about him.

[ulkis]

11 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Or why not have them both struggle? Lulu being instantly in love with Charlotte is, as I said above, bullshit. She's a child of rape on both sides. Not that it's in anyway her fault, but both Lulu and Dante should be a bit squeaked out at how Charlotte came into being. And the Cassadine connection should cause some agita, as well. Not only from a legal standpoint, but from a "uh-oh, another Cassadine, the family history isn't the best" standpoint.

Yeah, Laura being okay with it was weird too but I guess she's not gonna tell Lulu "ew". I hope we get a scene where she tells Kevin she's appalled but I'm not holding my breath.

19 minutes ago, Francie said:

The young woman  in the blue shirt talking to Michael is a doppelgänger for my best friend in college. Which is a specially weird, considering that Michael himself looks like someone I met in college. I'm having déjà vu all over the place. 

I'm going to guess the people you knew were nothing like them though, otherwise you would have had trouble ever staying awake through college.

2 hours ago, TeeVee329 said:

And you could actually do some realistic family drama with Dante struggling to bond with Charlotte the same way Lulu does.  But these writers obviously lack the subtly to do something like that without making Dante look like an ogre.

Yeah. But I think it would be more in character for Lulu to be completely freaked out and Dante to be more compassionate about it, even if he's not ready to whole-heartedly bond with her, given his background.

3 hours ago, TeeVee329 said:

Something that occurred to me - I guess it was just the contrivance to kick-start Lulu's baby rabies slash her (icky) desire to find the Stavlu embryo, but wasn't the whole thing that Lulu was obsessed with having another child she could carry and give birth to herself?  Charlotte doesn't actually address that issue.

 

3 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

Shhhh. Forget about all that!

Agreed.

 

2 hours ago, HeatLifer said:

Yes. And I also think it's weird that she doesn't care if the child is biologically Dante's. It's all about Lulu and her wants and it's completely unappealing to me. And I don't even care about Dante, truthfully. But how is this story heartwarming? "Look, Dante, here is my daughter with some crazy dude I'm related to that Helena took advantage of!" 

Maybe it's giving them too much credit, but I don't know if heartwarming is what they're going for exactly. This week, at least. I know a week or two ago they had the slo-mo when they saw each other. (I've never known a situation where slo-mo didn't kill all my emotions for a scene, just for the record.)

In other news, I had actually wanted to see today's show a bit. Drat.

[ulkis]

4 hours ago, Aurora2 said:

In addition to Lulu's impulsive nature, which precipitated serious problems in her marriage breakdown in 2015-early 2016, the problem of communication between the Falconeris is once again an issue. Did Lulu learn anything from that marriage breakdown? Obviously not when her husband, who is trying to be so supportive, is telling his mother that he can't raise valid questions to Lulu because she would jump to the wrong conclusions.

She did ask him if he was okay with it, which honestly, was more than I expected. Not that passing the lowest possible bar is a good thing, but still. She did take his feelings into consideration.

And I can't help but remember how she supported him 100% when they thought Rocco was his and Britt's and she didn't complain about Britt being in their lives and possibly Obrecht as a result. (Which I actually always thought was weird they never did more with that, but I digress.)

oh, and you were saying before that you thought DZ acted more in the cheating story - do you mean post-reveal too? Because I honestly thought he looked sadder finding out Charlotte was Lulu's daughter than he did during the video reveal on the Star. But who knows, maybe DZ was trying to get Dante to look like an asshole on purpose for all I know. He does sporadically talk about darker sides, etc etc, as most actors do.

Edited December 16, 2016 by ulkis

[TeeVee329]

11 minutes ago, ulkis said:

And I can't help but remember how she supported him 100% when they thought Rocco was his and Britt's and she didn't complain about Britt being in their lives and possibly Obrecht as a result. (Which I actually always thought was weird they never did more with that, but I digress.)

I thought she did bitch about the situation to somebody, Tracy maybe?

That whole thing - the half-reveal of Dante being the father about three weeks before the full reveal - was so weird.

[ulkis]

1 minute ago, TeeVee329 said:

I thought she did bitch about the situation to somebody, Tracy maybe?

That whole thing - the half-reveal of Dante being the father about three weeks before the full reveal - was so weird.

I mean, maybe she bitched a little, but she was never like "I can't do this and I'm going to ask him to give him away!"

I saw some talk that said it was supposed to go on longer but supposedly the network asked them to wrap up the reveal buuuuut I don't know if I buy that. I could see Ron just wanting to move on to his "brilliant" idea of the Stavlu stuff.

Edited December 16, 2016 by ulkis

[TeeVee329]

Oh agreed, she never did that.  Which kinda makes sense because Ben was a balm on her baby rabies over losing ConGeorgie.  Even before she found out he was Dante's, she was always snatching him up.

[Aurora2]

1 hour ago, ulkis said:

She did ask him if he was okay with it, which honestly, was more than I expected. Not that passing the lowest possible bar is a good thing, but still. She did take his feelings into consideration.

And I can't help but remember how she supported him 100% when they thought Rocco was his and Britt's and she didn't complain about Britt being in their lives and possibly Obrecht as a result. (Which I actually always thought was weird they never did more with that, but I digress.)

oh, and you were saying before that you thought DZ acted more in the cheating story - do you mean post-reveal too? Because I honestly thought he looked sadder finding out Charlotte was Lulu's daughter than he did during the video reveal on the Star. But who knows, maybe DZ was trying to get Dante to look like an asshole on purpose for all I know. He does sporadically talk about darker sides, etc etc, as most actors do.

I'm not content to let Lulu pass the lowest bar possible.   As well, I'm specifically not content to see her repeat the same low-bar behaviors that played a key part in last year's failed and damaging story.  

RE DZ's acting in that story, I have never thought he was as "checked out" as you and some others have.  Even as the scenes were happening, I saw him working at playing Dante as someone who was defeated and, therefore, less emotional.   His attempts apparently did not work with some viewers, but I do think he was working at showing something different but didn't connect with all of his audience in doing so.   Personally, when he submitted his Emmy reel, I appreciated the contrast with the emotional fire and range he showed in the first clip (Lulu's return home) and the subdued, defeated tone he played when the truth came out.  

Edited December 16, 2016 by Aurora2

[ulkis]

11 minutes ago, Aurora2 said:

I'm not content to let Lulu pass the lowest bar possible.   As well, I'm specifically not content to see her repeat the same low-bar behaviors that played a key part in last year's failed and damaging story.  

I don't think she is repeating that behavior, all the way, at least. She's not keeping any secrets from him. But if that's the case, then he's repeating his behavior too, by keeping quiet about his feelings.

But to be honest, saying that Lulu's lying about leaving the country for two whole days or however long (short) it was playing a "key part" of Dante's cheating her on in their bed still evokes a visceral reaction in me, so I'm just gonna back off of that. 

Edited December 16, 2016 by ulkis

[ulkis]

17 minutes ago, Aurora2 said:

I'm not content to let Lulu pass the lowest bar possible.   As well, I'm specifically not content to see her repeat the same low-bar behaviors that played a key part in last year's failed and damaging story.  

As for being content to let Lulu pass the lowest bar possible, it's not so much that I'm discounting everyone's points, but just bringing up stuff that other people may have overlooked. But hey, we all do that for characters we like. Sometimes I even do it for characters I don't like, because I like playing devil's advocate at times.

[HeatLifer]

18 minutes ago, ulkis said:

But to be honest, saying that Lulu's lying about leaving the country for two whole days or however long (short) it was playing a "key part" of Dante's cheating her on in their bed still evokes a visceral reaction in me, so I'm just gonna back off of that. 

If she talked about Stone, he'd be justified. 

[LeftPhalange]

4 minutes ago, ulkis said:

As for being content to let Lulu pass the lowest bar possible, it's not so much that I'm discounting everyone's points, but just bringing up stuff that other people may have overlooked. But hey, we all do that for characters we like. Sometimes I even do it for characters I don't like, because I like playing devil's advocate at times.

Betcha can't play devils advocate on behalf of Freako. 

[ulkis]

Just now, HeatLifer said:

If she talked about Stone, he'd be justified. 

It's hard to decide who a husband should feel more threatened by: perfect boyfriend who is dead but they totally would have married if he didn't die 20 years ago v flawed but alive ex boyfriend who she hadn't seen to or spoken to in a decade.

[ulkis]

7 minutes ago, LeftPhalange said:

Betcha can't play devils advocate on behalf of Freako. 

hmmmmm.

If Liz would just tell him she feels so so scared by Tom and she wants Franco to get rid of him or at the very least, sleep in her doorway to protect her and be her personal body guard, then he wouldn't feel insecure and he would react in a rational way and he would just be telling Liz to keep her pepper spray and her cell phone on her and maybe go to good friend Sonny and ask him for a bodyguard if she really feels the need for it.

BUT, since she is not thinking of his feelings at ALL and telling him she'll be alright and he doesn't have to go after Tom, it is making him feel unloved and unwanted and that is what is making Franco put him in a cage. Otherwise Franco would never go to these extremes!! 

Edited December 16, 2016 by ulkis

[HeatLifer]

8 minutes ago, ulkis said:

It's hard to decide who a husband should feel more threatened by: perfect boyfriend who is dead but they totally would have married if he didn't die 20 years ago v flawed but alive ex boyfriend who she hadn't seen to or spoken to in a decade.

At least the dude was alive in Dante's case.

Either way it's dumb because wouldn't everyone still be in X relationship if X didn't happen? Something always happens (whether that's death, cheating, having different morals, different wants/needs, falling out of love for whatever reason) to end a relationship. That's kinda how it works.

Edited December 16, 2016 by HeatLifer

[Melgaypet]

*side-eyes ulkis*

Edited December 16, 2016 by Melgaypet

[LexieLily]

2 hours ago, ulkis said:

Yeah, Laura being okay with it was weird too but I guess she's not gonna tell Lulu "ew". I hope we get a scene where she tells Kevin she's appalled but I'm not holding my breath.

I know this isn't the family legacy Laura wanted her daughter to carry on. This makes two Spencer women that had a child created with a Cassidine with dubious or no consent.

[ulkis]

3 minutes ago, Melgaypet said:

*side-eyes ulkis*

give me another!

4 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

At least the dude was alive in Dante's case.

juuuuust barely.

[Aurora2]

44 minutes ago, ulkis said:

I don't think she is repeating that behavior, all the way, at least. She's not keeping any secrets from him. But if that's the case, then he's repeating his behavior too, by keeping quiet about his feelings.

But to be honest, saying that Lulu's lying about leaving the country for two whole days or however long (short) it was playing a "key part" of Dante's cheating her on in their bed still evokes a visceral reaction in me, so I'm just gonna back off of that. 

And an equally visceral reaction from me.  To be perfectly clear, I am NOT assigning BLAME here - although I  expect that is how some Lulu & Lante fans see any references to Lulu's lie and to other actions she took.  I am talking about CAUSE and EFFECT.  Regardless of the mistakes that happened next, Lulu's actions in June, 2015, set the chain of events in motion.  What happened later would NOT have happened if Lulu had not lied and run off on a lame pretext.  For me, that makes her actions in June, 2015, KEY.   This focus is no way excuses Dante's and Valerie's subsequent sins, but it does make Lulu's actions KEY to the story. 

Even some Lulu/Lante fans I talk to think that these actions by Lulu were impulsive and unthinking and rushed - not unlike what she did yesterday.  And not unlike November, 2015, when she rushed to judgment without knowing the facts when Maxie misinterpreted Valerie's hacked email.  As I remember, the November rush to judgment led to tensions at the PCPD which led to Lulu's precipitous serving of separation papers.   And so on.

To repeat, this is NOT about playing the school yard game of assigning blame.  It is about looking at the sequence of events and the  CAUSE and EFFECT factor.  And, when referring to yesterday's scenes, it is about seeing the same pattern of behavior repeated. (Editing to add that I don't expect serious repercussions this time.  However, it's still frustrating as h*ll to see a character I used to like and would like to like again repeat the same frustrating behaviors.)

As for communication with Dante, I agree that she isn't lying.  However, there is still a communication issue when Dante says to this mother than he can't raise valid issues with Lulu because she will jump to the wrong conclusions.    That does NOT speak to fair and respectful communication - something I would have hoped BOTH would have learned from all those workbooks. 

Edited December 16, 2016 by Aurora2

[magnolia11]

13 minutes ago, ulkis said:

give me another!

Nina!!!!

[TeeVee329]

Apropos of nothing, remember how Dillon and Valerie were off to possibly have a ONS on Monday?  And there was absolutely no follow-up all week?  WTF.

[peachmangosteen]

2 minutes ago, TeeVee329 said:

Apropos of nothing, remember how Dillon and Valerie were off to possibly have a ONS on Monday?  And there was absolutely no follow-up all week?  WTF.

Right! I'm still pissed. Literally the only time I can stand Valerie is when she's with Dillon and there was a time I was actually pretty into those two. Fuck you, show!

[Oracle42]

Eh. Dante was so wildly, stupidly embarrassingly OOC that it's hard to take his motivations in that story seriously

[ulkis]

4 minutes ago, magnolia11 said:

Nina!!!!

Okay, but what am I defending her on? Her existence?

It's not her fault that Donna Mills decided to give birth to her. The way Michelle Stafford plays it, I can tell Donna Mills beat her as a child and told her she must always thrust out her arms, chest, and repeat every sentence twice like a little lady, over and over again.

[Aurora2]

2 minutes ago, TeeVee329 said:

Apropos of nothing, remember how Dillon and Valerie were off to possibly have a ONS on Monday?  And there was absolutely no follow-up all week?  WTF.

But were they off to have a ONS or were they just going somewhere else more relaxed and more comfortable?

I thought that was pretty vague.  I really didn't expect to see any followup.  Of course, it "could" happen in Jelly's twisted world; however, I think it's been pretty well established that Dillon and Valerie are in the friend zone. 

[ulkis]

4 minutes ago, TeeVee329 said:

Apropos of nothing, remember how Dillon and Valerie were off to possibly have a ONS on Monday?  And there was absolutely no follow-up all week?  WTF.

Maybe if Valerie and Dillon literally spend a week in bed, the writers think Kiki will look slightly reasonable for being mad at him if he slept with Valerie?

But probably nothing happened and Kiki will just misinterpret everything for a hot second.

[TeeVee329]

1 minute ago, Aurora2 said:

But were they off to have a ONS or were they just going somewhere else more relaxed and more comfortable?

That's why I said "possibly" lol.

I was gonna say I wouldn't be surprised if Valerie got moved over to a triangle with Dillon and Kiki given the promo made clear she's out of the story with Jordan and Curtis, but that promo also makes it clear Dills and Keeks are the endgame.  So I dunno.

[LeftPhalange]

33 minutes ago, ulkis said:

hmmmmm.

If Liz would just tell him she feels so so scared by Tom and she wants Franco to get rid of him or at the very least, sleep in her doorway to protect her and be her personal body guard, then he wouldn't feel insecure and he would react in a rational way and he would just be telling Liz to keep her pepper spray and her cell phone on her and maybe go to good friend Sonny and ask him for a bodyguard if she really feels the need for it.

BUT, since she is not thinking of his feelings at ALL and telling him she'll be alright and he doesn't have to go after Tom, it is making him feel unloved and unwanted and that is what is making Franco put him in a cage. Otherwise Franco would never go to these extremes!! 

Delete this before Jelly sees it and feels vindicated.

[ulkis]

Just now, LeftPhalange said:

Delete this before Jelly sees it and feels vindicated.

After I'm done writing my essay about Sonny's guilt punishes him more than a prison stint ever could.

[Oracle42]

It's too bad. Valerie and Dillon were more watchable in that 2-second scene than either version of the Keekster with any of her love interests

Edited December 16, 2016 by Oracle42

[TeeVee329]

I kinda like Dillon with Kiki.  But the writers just need to get on with it and stop stalling.  It's been months.

[Aurora2]

6 minutes ago, TeeVee329 said:

That's why I said "possibly" lol.

I was gonna say I wouldn't be surprised if Valerie got moved over to a triangle with Dillon and Kiki given the promo made clear she's out of the story with Jordan and Curtis, but that promo also makes it clear Dills and Keeks are the endgame.  So I dunno.

Yeah, it's really hard to find a place for Valerie.  I always thought she was a bit young for Curtis - although I would like to have seen more scenes between them which would have given Valerie needed POV.   Personally, I'd be happy to see her making friendships (eg Dillon and Kiki) and establishing more family connections.   I swim against the current on this point, but sometimes I find the rush to couple everyone on soaps overdone.  It's as if soaps are all preparing for the great flood and need to get all the couples on Noah's Ark so their world will survive.  Some characters and relationships could be stronger, more interesting and better matched if individuals and friendships were developed more first. 

[TeeVee329]

Just now, Aurora2 said:

Personally, I'd be happy to see her making friendships (eg Dillon and Kiki) and establishing more family connections. 

I was actually wondering this the other day - when is the last time, on-screen, Valerie spoke to someone in her family?

[Aurora2]

3 hours ago, Oracle42 said:

It's too bad. Valerie and Dillon were more watchable in that 2-second scenes than either version of the Keekster with any of her love interests

I like the natural, more adult vibe betwen Valerie and Dillon more than the wide-eyed, make-cute Dillon/Kiki relationship.   And right now Valerie actually has some good things going for her.  She is established in a career she likes - and in which she is focused on doing some good - and she's moved on from the mistakes of last year.  As well - and very important for me - she has shown growth in the way in which she handled Curtis's betrayal of her at the PCPD.  She is sticking by her principles and is no longer letting herself be defined by a man  - and I like that. 

Edited December 17, 2016 by Aurora2

[Oracle42]

My Dillon/Valerie feels are still a holdover from my hope that Dillon and Valerie were going to fall for each other while scheming over Lante. Instead, there was that...unfortunate thing with Dante and then the nothing with Curtis.