S08.E02: XX (2)

[verdana]

Some of the tweets on twitter are funny.

 

@$HL£¥ ‏@AshleeSullee24  48 mins48 minutes ago
I guess by "always", they meant only up until season 8. After that it's "nevermind". #Castle

 

 

Always_Castle ‏@Ini1501  2 hrs2 hours ago
Castle Fans, time travel is real! We are back to season 4
#Castle #Caskett
At least that promo picture fits

 

[metaphor]

I'm moving out, but I'll be just down the block, working in a high-profile job where I'm still allowing you to be around me...and does Castle understand WHY she moved out? It seemed he understood that the reason she was leaving was not because their relationship was in trouble, but because once again she was choosing her obsession over him. So how does any of him solving cases and getting in her face have to do with her moving back in? 

 

If we go by the showrunners' comments, the reason for Beckett's moving out isn't very clear to Castle. 

 

TVLINE | And just to be clear, Rick was never looped in on the stepmother Rita of it all? He also believes Allison Hyde was in fact leading all of this?

HAWLEY | Correct. He thinks that it’s over. But he knows that it opened a door that Beckett had closed inside of her. Now she’s obviously trying to close it again and he wants to help her, but he doesn’t know that she’s got a new obsession. He just knows that it all blew up in his face.

 

And thinking about that makes me even sadder for him.

[Julia]

See this is the kind of stuff that boggles my mind sometimes. Do they even remember what they wrote just one episode ago? What about the "I wish you were coming with me" & "What would I do sit outside your door" conversation? So yesterday when they were still married & living together Castle did not want to work with her because he would be stuck in the precinct but tomorrow his cunning plan is that he will see her by working cases with her in the field. The really confusing part is his plan will work.

And yet, I hear there was much of a season where the reason the two of them were kept apart was that if the Captain doesn't want you there, you don't get to be there. So he'll be around every week because despite having broken up their marriage to protect him, she's going to accept some contrived excuse for him to hang around every single week and send the clear signal to the big bad that he's still part of her life and they can use him as leverage if they want to.

I'm genuinely sorry Stana Katic signed at this point if they're just going to use her as canned conflict for the Castle is a big adorable puppy who has his beloved dance back hour.

[Chado]

Let's have a guess, how long til Castle even knows that she has picked another case over him? What episode will he actually learn the truth as to why she left him and what she is doing?

 

8x05? 8x06?...I assume him learning the truth of this conflicts with the strange concept of where he apparently has to win her back for some reason?

[ZingerCaskett]

Alexis is the Wesley Crusher of this show!  

 

Now that Hal W. was proven correct (Thank you Hal for the "heads up".).    I can now say that I'm fine with all of this.    Season 7 at the end was boooring.   The season 7 finale was boring.     This is,  even though the concept sucks,  is NOT boring.     It gave me Stana crying,  Nathan being sexy and confused,  and Espo and Ryan had something to do!       I'm very much looking forward to the "reunion".    Any guesses as to when?     If this is the last year,  I see the reunion during fall sweeps and the put down of our nemesis in the spring.    Leaving the final five episodes as a mush fest with Kate ending up preggos.  

 

I have personal history with a rocky beginning to marriage.    I have personal experience that two people who love each other CAN work it out and strengthen the marriage.     Hubby and I just celebrated our 20th.     Would I want to repeat the first 2 years of our marriage.  Hell no!   But surviving and learning from those first two years did strengthen the next 18.     Watching Kate walk out gave me flashbacks, but I had a happy ending in the end.   I hope that this what it is. 

 

Watching the next eps with popcorn and vodka,  lots of vodka. 

[wonderwoman]

"Thank you Castle for making it easy to drop you on a Monday night. I had too many shows I was juggling so dropping one makes life a little easier. I can't believe what this show has turned into and tonight's episode was the icing on the cake :("

Me too:(. Sad to say, this is but one of several openings for Monday might. Just bailed on Chasing Life and Switched at Birth. Life's too short...

[oberon55]

 

TVLINE | And just to be clear, Rick was never looped in on the stepmother Rita of it all? He also believes Allison Hyde was in fact leading all of this?

HAWLEY | Correct. He thinks that it’s over. But he knows that it opened a door that Beckett had closed inside of her. Now she’s obviously trying to close it again and he wants to help her, but he doesn’t know that she’s got a new obsession. He just knows that it all blew up in his face.

 

See, I was completely wrong about this being a sad rehash of s4. This is all fresh & new. Instead of walls Beckett has doors now.

[metaphor]

See, I was completely wrong about this being a sad rehash of s4. This is all fresh & new. Instead of walls Beckett has doors now.

 

So there has been some character development.

[Blackrock1]

This "reset" reminds me of what happens when you try to "fix" a tattoo. Then you have to explain to everyone what it is.

[verdana]

See, I was completely wrong about this being a sad rehash of s4. This is all fresh & new. Instead of walls Beckett has doors now.

Great she can build a whole bloody house soon at this rate.

[S55]

Even knowing what we did, that still stung. And left me...smad (my fellow Gilmore girls fans will know that reference).

 

I am THRILLED Bracken is dead. That might have been my favorite part of the episode. Although, even if it killed that story arc crutch, it then led to Locksat, so...

 

I thought Beckett's precinct speech was corny and cheesy. I almost wondered if Terri was still secretly on the writing staff, heh.

 

If everyone agrees this won't last (as divorce doesn't seem to be in the cards), then what is really to be gained from the journey. That's my biggest question. Because the reasons given so far seem...thin. 

Edited September 29, 2015 by S55

[KaveDweller]

Look at it the other way, do you think Castle should have to try and change her mind? win her back? Do you think Castle should just stand with his arms open wide until she decides to put their relationship first again?

 

I don't think he should just stand with open arms, no, and I don't think he should be the one working to change her mind.  But I do think he should try talking to her again about it and be open to taking her back for a little while.

 

TVLINE | I felt like she was almost speaking to the audience at that point. Like, “Put down the pitchforks, everyone….”

HAWLEY | Look, the most important thing for us is to A) tell a compelling dynamic story, but B) protect these characters. When we first started talking about doing this, the thing at the forefront was: How do we do it in a way that hopefully nobody gets mad at the characters? They can get mad at us, but… Beckett is doing this for the right reasons in her head, which is, “I have this obsession that I don’t know how to deal with yet, but if I go down this road with Castle, he could get killed.” We’ve just seen what happens when these people know you’re looking into [LOCKSAT], so she makes a conscious choice to do it without him, because she knows that no matter what she says to him, if he knows what’s going on he’s going in there with her — and she can’t have that.

 

That actually makes a little more sense, but didn't come across on-screen. The idea that Beckett thinks if she tries to move past the case and let it go, she'll slip up and do something like that search at the AG's office, and then Castle will get hurt.  And that explains why she said she had to get things right in her head, she meant get the obsession out of her head, not that she had to solve the case.  But I didn't get that from the episode.

 

WINTER: You put Bracken in jail but can you really just move on, or have you been affected on a DNA level?

 

It's been awhile since I took a science class but I'm pretty sure DNA does not actually alter itself based on your experiences.  It's pure biology.  These guys need a better metaphor.

 

I will say one part of the episode I liked.  When we saw Beckett/Vickram and Castle/Alexis/Haley trying to figure out what that code meant, and we saw Castle and Beckett get to the same conclusion at the same time, even though they weren't together  I thought it showed their connection.

Edited September 29, 2015 by KaveDweller

[roomtorome]

And, what now? Castle spends how much time/episodes trying to win her back?  He looks pathetic right now and any sane person would call it a day and move on; he's going to seem (to me) pitiful in desperate effort to get her back.  He should count his blessings to be rid of such a selfish, self-absorbed partner (I don't give a shit about the so-called big bads)

 

Heaven forbid, she should sit down and actually talk to her husband about what she is planning to do vs. rolling out with suitcase and saying "see ya" before heading out the door.

 

Stupid on steroids - all the way around.  Shows have a shelf life and this one seems to have hit its expiration date (well, it really did that with the idiotic wedding day gone haywire and Castle's mysterious disappearance) - Too bad the writers can never stick with what made the show a fun, mindless bit of fluff in the first place - good banter (early days), good supporting cast/characters, goofy stories together with some serious ones tossed in for balance.  

 

What a waste of NF's talent.  I still don't see her talent but that just might be how she is directed but she has always left me feeling absolutely nothing.

[Julia]

It's been awhile since I took a science class but I'm pretty sure DNA does not actually alter itself based on your experiences.  It's pure biology.  These guys need a better metaphor.

 

I think you can suffer allele degradation, but that's not new DNA, it's bad old DNA. And since the majority of what little I know about it I looked up when I had a question about Asgard cloning techniques, that could easily be wrong too.

 

ETA

What a waste of NF's talent. I still don't see her talent but that just might be how she is directed but she has always left me feeling absolutely nothing.

 

I've been assuming this would have Nathan Fillion's enthusiastic buy in, since essentially they sold this season to the network in a form which didn't require Stana Katic's participation at all and he got on board. This is that season, with a little Stana Katic spliced in, and it fits with his frequently expressed opinion that 'we' lose interest when two people are happy, and we're tuning in for 'the Dance.'

Edited September 29, 2015 by Julia

[BellyLaughter]

Great she can build a whole bloody house soon at this rate.

Well she is looking for somewhere to live now ;)

[Chado]

That actually makes a little more sense, but didn't come across on-screen. The idea that Beckett thinks if she tries to move past the case and let it go, she'll slip up and do something like that search at the AG's office, and then Castle will get hurt.  And that explains why she said she had to get things right in her head, she meant get the obsession out of her head, not that she had to solve the case.  But I didn't get that from the episode.

She's still taking advantage of him in my opinion, but as you said, the episode didn't show what you mentioned above at all. You bring up an interesting point about whether it's her head she needs to clear or this threat that needs to be resolved, but if 20 episodes is the intended goal for the duration of this, I struggle to see how it takes that long to "clear your head." I hope the situation is dynamic like they mentioned in their interviews but their language used doesn't suggest a reunion any time this year.

 

I personally would have rather seen Castle give her an ultimatum and have her still leave. At least that way we get to see some commitment from Beckett (eventually), at least that way we get to see Beckett fighting for Castle (eventually). At least that way we get to see her "chasing him" for a change. The only reason you would have Beckett leave and keep Castle in the dark is so clown/goofy Castle can be used as your fallback in the "back to normal" episodes, because if Castle leaves, the show doesn't work. If Castle knew Beckett was going back down the rabbit hole, there is no realistic way you can explain why he'd try and prove anything to her.

 

And I hate that, I hate that they constantly make Castle look like a doormat because the show doesn't work long term if he is angry, if he leaves (how many times should have he, honestly?) the show won't work. You cannot realistically explain why Castle and Beckett are still involved together (in terms of solving cases )if Castle is the reason for their separation, and that rule makes their relationship seem so unbalanced all the time.

 

I know so many people have said this before, but why would Castle ever have to win back his wife here? Why would he ever have to feel the need to? She left him. She has chosen to pursue a case over being with him. Their response to that is to have Castle ignore all of that and "prove" to her that they work best together? When is enough, enough?

 

The decision by Beckett at the end of 8x02 makes her look really bad (few argue that), but that is going to be nothing compared to the sad weak-willed doormat they will make Castle appear to be throughout this entire season. How much are we going to see from Beckett this season when it comes to righting her wrongs? Will she even admit she made a mistake?

 

Watch a near death experience be the catalyst for them to reunite (again) and we won't get any of the conversations we deserve to hear.

[S55]

I hope Castle managed to put that smorlette fire out before it destroyed his nice kitchen. 

[metaphor]

I will say one part of the episode I liked.  When we saw Beckett/Vickram and Castle/Alexis/Haley trying to figure out what that code meant, and we saw Castle and Beckett get to the same conclusion at the same time, even though they weren't together  I thought it showed their connection.

 

Yes. I liked that scene, as well as the one where Castle saves the day with his gun contraption. But then that just makes me think of how much I agree with him that they can figure anything out together, and my irritation with the contrivances of the episode ending returns. 

[cappuccino]

So after reading this thread I'll probably look for something else to watch with dinner.........

 

At least we knew what was coming......

[KateeBar]

What on earth did they do? And why? I really love Castle when they do an interesting case each week, when Castle, Beckett, Ryan and Esposito get to play detective. I don't even mind some of the multi-episode arcs. But we keep going back to this well of "Castle and Beckett have obstacles between them and happiness" and it's just stupid. I didn't need them to be a couple. Now that they are, I don't need them constantly challenged. Argh.

 

I also really liked it when Alexis was just growing up, becoming an adult, finding her own way, etc. I did NOT need her to become Alexis Drew, Super Sleuth. And hacker.

 

And my tiny irritation - I feel like any woman on this planet would pull her hair back in a ponytail while they are running around, shooting at people, hiding from bad guys, stitching up their own wounds, etc. It's all silly anyway, but at least give it a smattering of realism. No one would do that with beachy waves hanging in their face.

[KaveDweller]

She's still taking advantage of him in my opinion, but as you said, the episode didn't show what you mentioned above at all. You bring up an interesting point about whether it's her head she needs to clear or this threat that needs to be resolved, but if 20 episodes is the intended goal for the duration of this, I struggle to see how it takes that long to "clear your head." I hope the situation is dynamic like they mentioned in their interviews but their language used doesn't suggest a reunion any time this year.

 

I personally would have rather seen Castle give her an ultimatum and have her still leave. At least that way we get to see some commitment from Beckett (eventually), at least that way we get to see Beckett fighting for Castle (eventually). At least that way we get to see her "chasing him" for a change. The only reason you would have Beckett leave and keep Castle in the dark is so clown/goofy Castle can be used as your fallback in the "back to normal" episodes, because if Castle leaves, the show doesn't work. If Castle knew Beckett was going back down the rabbit hole, there is no realistic way you can explain why he'd try and prove anything to her.

 

And I hate that, I hate that they constantly make Castle look like a doormat because the show doesn't work long term if he is angry, if he leaves (how many times should have he, honestly?) the show won't work. You cannot realistically explain why Castle and Beckett are still involved together (in terms of solving cases )if Castle is the reason for their separation, and that rule makes their relationship seem so unbalanced all the time.

 

I know so many people have said this before, but why would Castle ever have to win back his wife here? Why would he ever have to feel the need to? She left him. She has chosen to pursue a case over being with him. Their response to that is to have Castle ignore all of that and "prove" to her that they work best together? When is enough, enough?

 

I agree that this shouldn't keep them apart for twenty episodes....that will totally destroy the show (even more than last night did).  In that interview Hawley and Winter said there was another "shift" mid-season, so maybe that's when they come back together.  I really hope so, because even 8 episodes of this is going to be tough.

 

Regarding Castle "winning her back" the only thing I can think of is if he knows Beckett is trying to protect him, and is refusing to let her sacrifice herself alone.  That wouldn't work all season, but it does make him seem less weak than if he was just chasing a woman he thinks doesn't want him anymore.  It's still super-contrived though.

[371012]

That will be the preggo thing...you know what else I dislike about this? Alexis was, for a brief moment, on Behalf ckett's page. Don't see that happening again anytime soon. Beckett needs to have to fight for Castle,IMHO. Oh, I also made it a point to hit the ABC advisory panel survey to s morning, even if it did make me late to work. Priorities!!!!

[verdana]

I know so many people have said this before, but why would Castle ever have to win back his wife here? Why would he ever have to feel the need to? She left him. She has chosen to pursue a case over being with him. Their response to that is to have Castle ignore all of that and "prove" to her that they work best together? When is enough, enough?

 

I agree their relationship is unbalanced and I don't see that dynamic changing to the detriment of both characters. What they have Castle doing next week is nonsense, watching that promo for 8.03 I felt sad and kind of embarrassed that Castle's been reduced to this sad sack chasing after a woman that obviously won't take him back for X number of episodes. This is not the same as the great dynamic they had back in S1-3 that Hawley wants to bring back into the show, it doesn't work after that stunt they pulled last night unless I pretend it never happened whilst I'm watching them have "fun" together.

 

But there's another aspect that I don't like about this rewind of their relationship, she's been promoted and her reputation and career is on the line. She's responsible for a whole precinct not just her team. She's already had a bad first few days at work (okay she never got to work) and I'm meant to find it funny seeing Goofy!Castle every week trying to inveigle his way into her cases? The situation not only makes him look sad but a nuisance too. He doesn't even know about Rita or his "other" family, does she plan to let him know or is that yet another secret to store up for the future?

 

[verdana]

It's especially sadder, considering she did it five minutes after she made the "no more secrets" rule.

When Kate uncertainly promises a still upset and dubious looking Castle "no more secrets",  oh how I laughed. It was obvious what was coming next especially with this couple, any serious relationship angst is built on consistently *not* being open and honest with each other.

[madmaverick]

Well, has the fandom exploded yet? 

 

There have been times in the past when I've taken issue with Beckett's behaviour (and Castle's as well), but I've shied away from saying she was selfish even when she seemed to dictate the Caskett relationship mostly on her terms, because that seemed like... such an indictment of her character, when she usually had good intentions.  Lying to Castle in S4 about not remembering because she wanted to be better; not telling him about DC and basically implying that she put the job and her needs ahead of their relationship, which fair enough, some people choose to do, but it made me wonder whether there was room for his needs too in the relationship and why he couldn't be her confidante in her decision making process rather than informed in the aftermath.     

 

But this time, I think I must characterise her behaviour as selfish.  Even if it pains me to do so, there's not much use sugar coating it.  The way they wrote it.... with her scene with Rita, and then with Castle... I'm sorry, but even if Beckett had cried a bucket of tears, I don't think I could have had much sympathy for her plight.  Her choices made her "ILU", "trust me", "forgive me", meaningless and hollow to me.  If someone said that to me while choosing to walk out on our marriage because of a misguided desire to see through some obsession, I would be incredibly hurt and pissed and there might be no going back even if I loved that person.  Because how can you ever trust that Beckett won't do something like this again?  Sometimes love isn't enough if you're going to make one sided decisions like this that impact both.  Like Castle said, it's a 'we' after a marriage.  Very disappointing that Beckett didn't seem to get that; nor did she truly seem to believe they were better as a team if she insists she has to do this on her own, again.  This is tainting her beautiful marriage vows to me a bit, because she sure isn't into making any joint decisions as a team.  

 

She says that she's doing this to protect him, but I see that more as an excuse for herself to pursue her obsession.  She was intent on following her stronger than ever obsession even before she gave thought to any harm that might befall her loved ones, even though she is aware of how hard they've worked to get to their 'happily ever after'.  Even if Castle is in less danger due to their break up (which doesn't make any logical sense as the baddies would still know he's important to her), doesn't she realise that if she ends up killed or harmed herself from her pursuit of obsession, it'll wreck Castle? How would putting herself in harm's way "protect" him and his heart when she ends up hurt or worse?  For such a smart woman, she sure is making just about the stupidest decision ever and I don't have much sympathy for stupidity.

 

One sad thing in all this is that it really does seem like Bracken knew his wife better than Castle did.  Heartbreaking for Castle.  Beckett had it all, but she chose to throw it all away.  Of course they'll be getting it all back because this is Castle,but in real life, there could be no going back.

 

If not for this jarring break up, I would otherwise be looking forward to next week's lighter episode which looks like fun.  Castle must either have amnesia or be made of teflon, if he can bounce back so quickly from a wife who walked out on him to positively trying to win her back.  Castle's Dad, Castle's first wife Meredith both walked out on Castle, and now, Beckett.  If that doesn't give a person abandonment issues, I don't know what does.  I much prefer positive Castle to angry, bitter Castle, but I'm just not sure it's realistic in this case.  Maybe I'll just have to ignore the elephant in the room of their breakup, if at all possible, to enjoy the 'fun' episodes.

 

The new showrunners seem intent on bringing back the sexual tension and WT/WT via Caskett 2.0.  They must subscribe to the Moonlighting curse in a way because they basically say they don't think good drama can come out of a happy couple and that they don't know how to create the spark between one.  And it's Bracken 2.0 as well with the new Big Bad.  I don't know if it's Hawley's nostalgia for what the show was when he left or what, but it looks like they're set on rewinding the show to the dynamics at that time, except the characters have grown and moved on. 

Edited September 29, 2015 by madmaverick

[verdana]

It was rather symbolic that when she leaves he's staring at the door gaping open, the last time it got that much screen time he had her up against it in Always when I foolishly thought they had found their "happily ever after" and she was on her way to emotionally putting her obsession with Bracken and chasing after something behind her, instead they've given her a fresh one. Great.

 

This was my point.. "I don't want to put my man's life in danger, so I'm moving out! SOBBING AND DRAMA! And yet, they'll still be together constantly as she maintains her job. Great plan! 

It's even worse on subsequent viewings. I still don't get why she left him, I honestly don't get her logic there at all. She is still going to be constantly around him, he's still in danger and can be killed at any time, it's such a stupid fudge by the writers.  No matter how many times I rewind and listen to what she's saying. I don't really understand what is going through her head and the talk with Rita is even more irritating to listen to. I keep thinking for crying out loud take her fucking advice! But she has a history of ignoring it, she did that with Royce, Montgomery and now Rita - go live you life, you've earned it, enjoy it, be happy with the person you love and that wants to be with you. 

 

I personally would have rather seen Castle give her an ultimatum and have her still leave.

 

What I would have liked to have seen is him telling Beckett he loves her and she must do whatever she has to then let her go (I certainly wouldn't have him chasing her around either but then we'd have no show lol). But I would have also had him tell Beckett he wants her to go and see a therapist before he's willing to entertain the idea of them getting back together, because this comes over as a compulsion to me at this point and unless she takes active steps to do something about it he always risks seeing that bag ready to go by the door. 

 

They've made her appear broken again in some way and needing to "fix" herself but I thought we had already been there and done that. Anything that is broken now inside of her is something the writers have dreamed up to make this story happen and it's regressed her character a lot.   

[Brit Babe]

A few months back, when the break up spoilers came out, I commented half jokingly that this reminded on Alias season 5 and this episode has cemented my belief that this is Alias season 5.

I just don't know where to start, the "story" if we can call it that doesn't make any sense and is full of such tired cliches. "The life you were living yesterday is over", no really it isn't because leaving the "attachments" behind make them a risk and for the person living. Ridiculous.

Beckett's "demons" - are they just saying that she obsesses over unsolved crimes or that she has an obsessive personality (which could be targeted into something else)? As for SpyStepMommy, feeding her some BS line which made her decide to leave him, such clunky storytelling, it was unbelievable.

The "break-up" - aside from the ridiculuous reasoning and lack of explanation to Castle was 50/50. Stana was excellent in that scene and Beckett was upset as she should be. Castle's anger or the little of what we saw was poor, not sure if his non reaction was scripted/directed to be like that but it just felt like he wasn't that upset his wife was walking out on him.

What really needs to happen, is that Fillion needs to put his big boy pants on and act with his co-star, he doesn't need to like her or even speak to her, just do the job you were given without cocking things up.

In other news, Alexis dressed like a 35-40 year old last week, now she's dressing for her mid 40's, hopefully by mid season they ship her off to a retirement home and we won't have to deal with her anymore.

 

I'm bothered by the last shot of the episode. Beckett is in tears in the hallway, she turns around like she wants to go back, but when she turns back to the camera ... the tears are gone.

 

What was that even about? It was suppose to be a serious moment and I just laughed.

[verdana]

One sad thing in all this is that it really does seem like Bracken knew his wife better than Castle did.  Heartbreaking for Castle.  Beckett had it all, but she chose to throw it all away.  Of course they'll be getting it all back because this is Castle,but in real life, there could be no going back.

I agree in real life I don't see how you could come back from this at all, it's too much. What's upsetting is the writers used Bracken who had ultimately brought Castle and Beckett together in love and harmony to this time drive a wedge between them, that feels very wrong. 

 

And all after Alexis said she was family. Very curious to see how Alexis will react to this move.

She'll have forgotten about it by next week, any way she likes Hayley better now. 

 

I really thought Beckett had evolved as a character from the days of season 4.

So did everyone else except critically Hawley and Winter.

 

So they get back together because of a baby? Yeah, that's smart. (Sorry, sarcasm not directed at you, but the idea of "Together for the kids" never ends well.)

The last thing that these two should be doing is having kids together, not with Beckett in this state of mind. But at this stage anything goes and they need to fit a baby in at some point so I can see them doing that because they know the majority would lap it up and forget everything else. 

[MDL]

Can you say disjointed? As I watched, I felt like they'd given four different writers scenes to write, without letting them read any of the previous scenes.

My take on the ending was that teary-eyed Beckett left the loft, turned around for one last look, then turned back to the camera- no longer teary-eyed, but a rather determined "bad ass Beckett".

She moved out, but they're going to work together at the precinct????? Or even just solving cases together? That should be pleasant.......NOT.
Not much "hostile tension potential" there is there?

[FlickerToAFlame]

Here is that old script spoiler from the guy who plays Vikram. It's that final scene right? But it looks like they went with slightly different dialogue:

http://tinypic.com/r/sgu4ja/8

[madmaverick]

What really needs to happen, is that Fillion needs to put his big boy pants on and act with his co-star, he doesn't need to like her or even speak to her, just do the job you were given without cocking things up.

I really don't understand the accusation that it's somehow Nathan's fault for this storyline.  Didn't Stana herself tweet after she'd re-signed that after talking with the showrunners, she was excited about the future plans for Beckett?  I thought that was just PR talk, but some fans like to take Stana's tweets as scripture.  If you're going to fault the actors, I don't see how one actor is to blame and not the other?  Personally, I don't fault any of the actors for the storylines.  I think they turn up and do their job which is acting out the scripts, written by the writers, who couldn't think of a more imaginative storyline than this.  Well, they probably think what they've cooked up is imaginative.

 

Also, time will tell, but even a break up storyline should still involve a lot of acting with each other.  As much as they try to make the show more ensemble based, it's still rooted in Castle and Beckett and surely, the actors knew that when they chose to re-sign.  Even if they're ready for the show to be over, I doubt they want it to end on a failing note.

Edited September 29, 2015 by madmaverick

[KaveDweller]

I noticed it seemed slightly different too. Maybe because the page leaked?

What I would have liked to have seen is him telling Beckett he loves her and she must do whatever she has to then let her go (I certainly wouldn't have him chasing her around either but then we'd have no show lol). But I would have also had him tell Beckett he wants her to go and see a therapist before he's willing to entertain the idea of them getting back together, because this comes over as a compulsion to me at this point and unless she takes active steps to do something about it he always risks seeing that bag ready to go by the door.

The way they had Beckett acting, I think she should see a therapist.

I don't mind Castle trying to get her to tell him what's going on, cause he's got to be feeling a bit confused. But they just can't jump back in to where they were. And the longer they are apart the harder it will be to put them back together.

[madmaverick]

I noticed it seemed slightly different too. Maybe because the page leaked?

 

Where can you tell that it's different?  I can barely make it out.

 

The "break-up" - aside from the ridiculuous reasoning and lack of explanation to Castle was 50/50. Stana was excellent in that scene and Beckett was upset as she should be. Castle's anger or the little of what we saw was poor, not sure if his non reaction was scripted/directed to be like that but it just felt like he wasn't that upset his wife was walking out on him.

 

 

The writing had more to do with it than anything, and/or maybe Stana was having a tough sell of the ridiculous decision of Beckett's, but between the acting and the writing, I didn't feel Beckett was that conflicted in her scene with Rita.  She came across as a bit more conflicted with Castle, but she'd clearly made up her mind without sparing a thought to consult Castle on it.  Whether that was an acting or a directing choice, it didn't help garner more of my sympathy for her.  I definitely did feel that Castle was upset.  He was more patient and probing with Beckett than I would have been even though she'd just dropped a crazy bomb on him.  You could feel the restrained anger and hurt, mostly hurt, and I can't believe this is happening!  I think Nathan's choice of restraint, barely concealed but definitely there, emotion is generally a good acting choice and much better than going over the top.  It was all there in his eyes.

 

My take on the ending was that teary-eyed Beckett left the loft, turned around for one last look, then turned back to the camera- no longer teary-eyed, but a rather determined "bad ass Beckett".

 

Oh yeah, that was meant to be taken as a "badass" Beckett look of determination and resolve.  Laughably out of place at that moment in time.  If only she'd applied that determination and resolve to her personal relationships.  She'd just thrown her husband under a bus so it was hard to get on board with so called badassness when it's needlessly and recklessly stupid.

 

I LOLed too at Beckett's "badass" needle and thread moment, while badassly chugging down vodka, in a lacy black bra, with flawless hair and makeup of course.  These "badass" moments, complete with zoom in shots of the sewing, are ridiculous to the point of being comedic at this point.

 

All the time Beckett was with Rita, I found myself wishing Beckett had gone back to a hairstyle like Rita's.  Her perfectly bouncing locks and curls were really a bit too much with all the running around she did this episode. 

 

And LOL at the comment about how Beckett's travel bag was too small for her coats.  Funniest comment in the thread.

[FlickerToAFlame]

The script photo makes it seem like Beckett said something like "I love you, but at the same time my heart is breaking." Then rushes out.

The episode still really hurts, but I do much prefer a writing team that takes risks and actually writes solid scripts to a team like MilMar that may have sworn never to break them up, but was coasting along on boring and mediocre work. I will always choose good writing over my favorite ship. It still hurts like a bitch though.

Edited September 29, 2015 by FlickerToAFlame

[verdana]

And LOL at the comment about how Beckett's travel bag was too small for her coats.  Funniest comment in the thread.

 

May be that bag is like the tardis?  One good thing now it frees up space for Castle to get a new wardrobe. 

[KaveDweller]

Where can you tell that it's different?  I can barely make it out.

 

I can barely make it out either, but in the script, after saying "I love you," Beckett says something about time and that something's breaking.  In the episode she said "I always will. Forigve me" after.

[cappuccino]

What a big bag full of donkey poo ...... holy smokes that was worse than I thought.

 

So we have a new BIGBAD with CIA resources.........funny how he is not able to simple take out Beckett when back in the days a crazy Tyson and his crazy doctor chick Nieman just snatched her up on New York's streets.

 

Oy to to the vey since I saw some Gilmore girls quote in here already.

 

And of course BadAss Beckett is the ONLY one who can bring the BigBad to justice and of course she has to sacrifice being with Castle to do so.....what BS.

 

Run, Castle !!! Fast and never look back!! And she seriously hopes he takes her back once the case is over ---- are you kidding me !! And the writers are seriously telling us in interviews it is Castle who tries to win her back ? To convince her she needs him and he doesnt give up on her and their relationship ? I seriously need to get my hands on the stuff they are smoking.

 

It needs to be Beckett who has to do ALL the groveling and ass kissing to get back into that marriage.

 

I for one am out. What a big B - sorry but that character is done ---- well done.

 

I won't even get into super duper "adult" Alexis with her super duper tech skills she picked up where exactly ?

[Brit Babe]

I noticed it seemed slightly different too. Maybe because the page leaked?

 

I can't tell whats on the original picture what does it say?

[madmaverick]

Caskett, as written after they got together, was flatter than I'd anticipated.  Other than on a few occasions, the spark was less than before.  And I did miss the sexual tension.  So yes, I am all for bringing that stuff back but I'm not sure this is the way to do it.  Can you really have fun, sexy, romantic sparks at such a damaging and challenging time in a marriage?  Can you stay light with all this baggage?

[verdana]

Lines on re-watch that become even more annoying every time you hear them.

 

“I am sure as hell not going to let someone chase me away from the life that I've worked so hard to create” and fifteen minutes later Beckett does precisely that. 

Edited September 29, 2015 by verdana

[S55]

In looking at gifs of that scene at the dry cleaners, Beckett looks more like she was cut with a knife than shot. lol

 

Who's taking bets on when/if we see Burke again this season? Ha. 

[pcta]

I watched first 5 minutes and last 5. Enough to confirm - this show is out. Give me the show with Castle PI, his mom and kid and the boys. Let him figure out Beckett sucks at relationships. Let her leave permanently and I might come back.

[KaveDweller]

In looking at gifs of that scene at the dry cleaners, Beckett looks more like she was cut with a knife than shot. lol

 

It does look like a knife wound.  Wouldn't a bullet would be smaller and rounder? Or maybe it grazed her and that created the long slit like that?.

 

Caskett, as written after they got together, was flatter than I'd anticipated.  Other than on a few occasions, the spark was less than before.  And I did miss the sexual tension.  So yes, I am all for bringing that stuff back but I'm not sure this is the way to do it.  Can you really have fun, sexy, romantic spas at such a damaging and challenging time in a marriage?  Can you stay light with all this baggage?

 

I'm willing to wait and see how they'll do this, and I do really like that TPTB are saying there's a lot of theory building to come (because I never understood why we stopped getting that after they got together), but it seems weird to have all this fun going on when they are split up like this. It also seems like that will putCastle at just as much risk as if he was helping her.

 

It's all just really stupid..

[Samantha84]

If I still loved this show and was still watching post Sleeper a.k.a jump shark episode --- I'd be so pissed right now but as it is I don't care. I'm un-bothered. Other than to say, based solely on what I've read, this was a contrived bullshit tactic that regressed Beckett to her former pre-season 4 self.

Also? Wondering when stop ignoring that big, pink elephant in the corner. The rumors about Stana and Nathan and their dislike of each other has been circling for YEARS and where there's smoke there's fire. This whole contrived arc screams it, in my opinion. Shame. You get paid 6 figures an episode --- you can sure as hell ACT like you like each other. Many of us do at our place of employ and we don't get paid nearly as much. 

[statsgirl]

Somebody stop this mess.

 

I have no problem with Beckett trying to find out who the Bigger Bad is.  It actually seems like something interesting. What I really hate is that she left Castle to do it.  It's a stupid trope, it nearly killed the last two seasons of Arrow, and I have zero interest in seeing it play out here, especially since one of the best things about the show was the relationship between Castle and Beckett now that they finally got together.

 

Alexis/Hayley is another problem.  When Alexis asked the tech guy to get out of the way so she could enlarge the mirror image, my eyes rolled so hard they almost rolled out of my head.  I don't have a problem with a new character coming on but Hayley adds nothing to the show.

 

And then there's Martha saying "I told you she was a keeper" about Hayley. No, Martha, you didn't. You were entirely missing in the last show, unfortunately.

 

Anyone else part of the ABC Advisory day-after panel? I'll most definitely be venting there ... even if no one that reads any of that cares.

Yep, did that. Also tweeted to Alexi Hawley and Terence Winter.  And posted at TVLine and other places that carried their interviews  Yay for social media.

 

They're probably working on episode 8 already but they need to stop this mess sooner rather than later.

[St. Claire]

And then there's Martha saying "I told you she was a keeper" about Hayley. No, Martha, you didn't. You were entirely missing in the last show, unfortunately.

 

I thought that was supposed to be a comic beat, since Martha seemed unhappy to have Hayley around at the start of the scene but changed her tune as soon as Hayley was useful/agreeable.

[verdana]

This was obviously a well-thought-out plan in which she gets to make all of the decisions and to hell with her husband. Because that's how marriages work. You've just been discovered in a massive lie, and then you leave with no explanation. The rational choice is for your partner to make an absolute buffoon of himself trying to get you back. 

 

No matter how you slice it, after stating more than once she wanted to keep her life, she makes the decision to walk out at the end without even so much as an explanation to Castle, much less a discussion. Trust her? PUH-lease. 

I've been trawling tumblr and reading the reviews, comments etc. Seen quite a few passionate articles supporting the story (and Beckett of course some are better than others), I know you should always try and respect other fans opinions but honestly some individuals seem to be a little too desperately spinning this as a case of organic character development not sure who they're trying to convince (themselves maybe?) but after reading their posts I'm sorry I just don't see that, all I see is a chronic lack of imagination and throwing the characters under a bus to bring a story about because they couldn't write them together as a couple.

 

However, I did see one comment that I thought applied to Beckett, they suggested what the writers did to her character this episode was not a case of character regression but clear case of abandonment and I think they're spot on.  That's why I can't get upset with Beckett unlike other times in her trajectory because this story is so lacking in any logic and came out of nowhere for her that any blame or anger should land straight on the writer's doorstep. 

Edited September 29, 2015 by verdana

[chaifan]

In other news, Alexis dressed like a 35-40 year old last week, now she's dressing for her mid 40's, hopefully by mid season they ship her off to a retirement home and we won't have to deal with her anymore.

 

 

Glad someone else was also thinking this.  Whoever is styling/doing make up for Alexis needs to be sacked.  She has always been a no-frills type of girl - not a lot of makeup, more casual clothes.  When did she turn 40 and start piling on the heavy heavy makeup?  And "SuperAlexis" just bugs.  The computer enhancement scene was ridiculous.  Send her back to college, or let her get a real job and pop in now and again.  Trying to make her into another Veronica Mars is not working.

 

I didn't read anything about this season, so had no idea that there are issues between the actors.  Is Haley going to be a regular?  The Step-mom?  I'll give it another episode or two, but this show is losing me fast.  Which is sort of sad.

[ksb]

The show sure does have a fresher feel to it this season. Too bad none of that matters to me, since the one thing I used to watch this show for is now dead.

A line has been crossed with Beckett's reasoning and subsequent decision, and Caskett is now broken and beyond repair for me.

I wish somebody had pulled the plug last year, when it is so obvious now that this season's storyline is dictated  by BTS drama.

I don't care for fabricated WT/WT and forced UST that doesn't make sense for these characters at this point.

 

The one thing that gave me a good chuckle was Vikram, but only because it reminded me of Vikram, the freelance kite designer.

[verdana]

but it seems weird to have all this fun going on when they are split up like this. It also seems like that will putCastle at just as much risk as if he was helping her.

 

It's all just really stupid..

I find the tone of the promo bizarre because it's so upbeat yet we've just had this almighty slap in the face and what about that risk factor...like you I don't understand how he's at less risk now. It's not just over this latest drama but also his new role being a PI. He's out in the field without her and all he has for company is his badly dressed super sleuth daughter and Hayley who likes operating outside of legal boundaries which surely spells more trouble for Castle.  

 

Also, what about everyone else, her dad? Martha? Alexis? If they want to get to her they can get to her through any one she or Castle cares about. The whole thing is just stupid as if sleeping in a different bed from him makes any difference to how safe they will be.

Edited September 29, 2015 by verdana