NFL Thread

[DrSpaceman73]

1 hour ago, JTMacc99 said:

Since I have five minutes to answer such questions, here are the number of Top 5 draft picks by team since 2003 (so the last 100 Top 5 picks.)

Jacksonville is your leader, which was not a surprise. Interesting to see that the Raiders, Rams, and Bucs are frequent visitors to the top 5.  

I think the colts had a second one but traded back and took quenton Nelson like 6th. 

The one listed was luck. 

[xaxat]

Hey, NFL, remember this statement you released in response to Brian Flores' lawsuit?

Quote

”We will defend against these claims, which are without merit.”

Not holding up too well, huh? You reflexively went after him before you knew the facts.

Edited August 3, 2022 by xaxat

[JTMacc99]

24 minutes ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

I think the colts had a second one but traded back and took quenton Nelson like 6th. 

The one listed was luck. 

There were definitely a lot of trades. That pick you're talking about went to the Jets, so they technically didn't earn the one they used in 2018.  The Browns had 2 picks in that same draft, the second one came from Houston. 

But even with trades, it's pretty much the same cast of characters. My Giants went a long time not having a top 5 after they used the 4th pick in 2004 on Phillip Rivers.  They now make regular appearances starting in 2018. (Barkley, Andrew Thomas, Kavon Thibodeaux)

[DrSpaceman73]

1 hour ago, JTMacc99 said:

There were definitely a lot of trades. That pick you're talking about went to the Jets, so they technically didn't earn the one they used in 2018.  The Browns had 2 picks in that same draft, the second one came from Houston. 

But even with trades, it's pretty much the same cast of characters. My Giants went a long time not having a top 5 after they used the 4th pick in 2004 on Phillip Rivers.  They now make regular appearances starting in 2018. (Barkley, Andrew Thomas, Kavon Thibodeaux)

The trade was

Jets trade up #6 to #3 for sam darnold

Colts moved to 6th and took Nelson and also got another OL starter in Braden Smith in round 2.  Some other lower round picks involved too....some ok colts players but no one franchise changing. 

Now that in itself, bad enough for the jets. 

The cherry on top though?    

The bills one pick later at #7 took Josh Allen. 

[mojoween]

An amusing (to me, anyways) palate cleanser while we wait to hear the NFL’s appeal details. 

[Notabug]

22 minutes ago, mojoween said:

An amusing (to me, anyways) palate cleanser while we wait to hear the NFL’s appeal details. 

The NFL has filed an appeal, claiming the suspension is not long enough.  They got that right.

Quote

The league decided to take a stand against the judge’s decision, to stand up for what it believes is right,” Schefter told ESPN’s NFL Live. “And the judge wrote that the NFL proved that Deshaun Watson was guilty of sexual assault and that he posed a threat to the women around him and they compromised the integrity of the National Football Game and six games is not enough in the NFL eyes.”

https://www.al.com/nfl/2022/08/nfl-appeals-deshaun-watson-suspension-per-report.html

Coming up soon: the NFLPA goes to court to stop the NFL from extending the suspension.

And so it continues....

[Carey]

What's probably going to happen is that he'll end up playing in Week One, and it'll be a situation where it emulates either the Brady thing or the Zeke thing.  For those in Western PA, it sort of sucks if it's the latter.  Pittsburgh plays Cleveland in Week 3, and if the NFL win the appeal following a delay, then Watson could miss Weeks 7-17 and really any postseason games (which there would not be any).  Therefore, Baltimore & Cincinnati avoid DeShaun, especially the former.  The Bengals haven't defeated the Browns since 2019, so it might not matter.

If there's a delay, chances are it goes into 2023.  Watson misses time, and the Steelers fans will say the NFL hates them when they put both games after late enough for him to return.

Conspiracy aside, I agree their appeal is the right thing to do.  Yeah there was not proof or whatever, but based on Sue Robinson's review, how is that 6 games.  Furthermore, if the other owners are upset about how "clever" the Browns were with their deal, then Roger is going to take Cleveland and Watson down.  Can't fault the other owners; by the way, I actually think that if the contract structure was a normal one, then the NFL would forgo their appeal (to the NFL)

[Fukui San]

4 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

The trade was

Jets trade up #6 to #3 for sam darnold

Colts moved to 6th and took Nelson and also got another OL starter in Braden Smith in round 2.  Some other lower round picks involved too....some ok colts players but no one franchise changing. 

Now that in itself, bad enough for the jets. 

The cherry on top though?    

The bills one pick later at #7 took Josh Allen. 

And at the end of the round the Ravens took Lamar Jackson.  The Jets could've traded back, netted like an extra first and third round pick, and took a future League MVP.

Five QB's taken in the first round that year, and they were, in order, Good/Adequate to Mediocre, Bad, MVP Candidate, Absolute Bust, and Future MVP.

[Danielg342]

I agree that an appeal was warranted and that both the Browns ownership and DeShaun Watson get the penalties they actually deserve.

What I don't agree with is the principle that the NFL gets to appeal to...the NFL (Roger Goddell is the NFL). That doesn't sound impartial at all...it would be like an Assistant District Attorney appealing a conviction to the District Attorney.

The players and the league need to sort that out. Don't know why they didn't in the last CBA.

(Aside: @JTMacc99- appreciate the list of picks in the Top 5. Very illuminating. One question- who is MIQ? I can't figure that out)

[Fukui San]

I mean, for Deflategate the NFL went to the effin' Supreme Court to enforce the principle that they can enforce whatever penalty they damn well please no matter the merits of the actual infraction, so....

[DrSpaceman73]

36 minutes ago, Danielg342 said:

I agree that an appeal was warranted and that both the Browns ownership and DeShaun Watson get the penalties they actually deserve.

What I don't agree with is the principle that the NFL gets to appeal to...the NFL (Roger Goddell is the NFL). That doesn't sound impartial at all...it would be like an Assistant District Attorney appealing a conviction to the District Attorney.

The players and the league need to sort that out. Don't know why they didn't in the last CBA.

(Aside: @JTMacc99- appreciate the list of picks in the Top 5. Very illuminating. One question- who is MIQ? I can't figure that out)

I've wondered for years why Goodell wants ultimate authority in suspensions and the final say in it all.  All it does is open himself to criticism and hatred from the players. 

But then the players if they don't like it have had multiple cba deals where they could have forced it as an issue and haven't so I no longer have much sympathy for them. Their own fault.  Dollars matter to them more. 

Edited August 4, 2022 by DrSpaceman73

[Carey]

Life is not fair, but the fact remains as such: How about the players, not all of them, but some of them, decide to be better human beings.  The effort for being better human beings is less than the effort to strip the power of the powers that be over the fact that one's ruling might not be fair.

Nobody forced DeShaun Watson to do what he was accused of that led to the trouble that he (and Cleveland) finds himself in.  Roger Goodell did not tell Marquise Brown to speed around a loop in Arizona.  The other NFL owners were not going to kill Bruce Beal for his refusal to be sleazy in an attempt to acquire the best NFL person in over 100 years.

I'll be dead someday, and well after that, people in the league will continue to do the wrong thing and make poor choices.  From their, instead of owning up to it, they'll use the energy for obtaining or an attempt to obtain forgiveness without paying the price.  It's a shame, but what are you going to do?

[Danielg342]

This goes beyond Watson and other players "needing to be better people". I never once argued against the latter or that Watson and the Haslams should get a more severe penalty than what they did get.

One day, there will be a spurious case made against a player. The NFL- be it under Goddell or another commissioner- will get the assessment of that case wildly wrong. An impartial arbitrator would clearly see the case as spurious and rule for the player, but since the NFL does not, the inevitable appeal will see the player severely punished when he should not have been.

I don't think any of us, as fans, would want to see our players taken from our teams unjustly. Eventually the players may one day realize that too, especially because it would be in their best financial interests to realize it.

As it relates to Watson, this may essentially be the argument that he uses to get his suspension nullified, and it could actually go all the way to the Supreme Court (Tom Brady stopped at the Court of Appeals). No matter how impartial Roger Goddell may be, it's still a conflict of interest that he gets to be the one who decides on the appeal the league launches. I may be no lawyer but I would think there's a strong possibility that Watson would win out based on that argument.

Then the league would have a real PR nightmare on its hands, as they'll be seen as the ones who failed to have adequate policies that would allow Watson to be truly held accountable for what he has done.

So I hope sooner rather than later the league and the players find a way to make things right so we can trust the disciplinary process once and for all. Because it's ultimately the game that suffers when we make a mockery of the system.

[merylinkid]

The Deflategate pretty much showed that because of the CBA, the NFL can impose any punishment it wants.   So even if this goes to court, Watson is unlikely to prevail there.

But the big news is -- FOOTBALL IS BACK TONIGHT.    The Hall of Fame game kicks off (pun INTENDED) Enshrinement Weekend.   

[Carey]

The Hall of Fame Game is overrated to be honest.  Sure it’s action on the field, but it’s best suited for background noise or whatever.  Eleven times out of ten I’d settle for a HOF game before an XFL/USFL game.  However, the main stars and even next people up will not to (much of) anything tonight.

As mentioned, similar to the Pro Bowl, a move to a different day was a pretty good idea.  Having this on Thursday before the ceremony was brilliant.

There hasn’t been much, if any talk about DeShaun suing for defamation, for what it’s worth.

The US Supreme Court, who likely would possibly would’ve passed on hearing the case for Tom Brady, has a different cast of people today than they did six years ago.  In my opinion, I think Watson is more likely to lose if and when they hear it.  The SCOTUS has been hearing or taking a lot more cases than they might have in the past.  Maybe the QB has a case or a reason given the lack of evidence, but IMO, it’s just one of those situations where they’d honor the CBA, while making note of Sue Robinson’s findings.

Someone elsewhere said that if it’s 17 games, it’s possible that it’ll start this year to wreck 2022, and put a dent on 2023.  I’m starting to think that if it starts this year, he’ll be gone whatever’s left of 2022, and all of 2023

[mojoween]

20 hours ago, Carey said:

They haven't even finished last in their own division in over 3 decades. 

It physically HURTS me to say anything nice about Pittsburgh, but in a five and then four team division, that’s pretty impressive.

If Lamar Jackson went to the Jets, would he even be MVP?

[Magog]

5 minutes ago, mojoween said:

If Lamar Jackson went to the Jets, would he even be MVP?

NO. The Jets will find a way to mess it up like they usual do. 

1 hour ago, merylinkid said:

But the big news is -- FOOTBALL IS BACK TONIGHT.    The Hall of Fame game kicks off (pun INTENDED) Enshrinement Weekend.   

Yay. 🙄

Its still NFL Summer Vacation for me, so if I somehow find a way to watch this game, I will be taking a nap. 😴

[bluegirl147]

7 minutes ago, mojoween said:

It physically HURTS me to say anything nice about Pittsburgh, but in a five and then four team division, that’s pretty impressive.

There is something to be said for consistency off the field.  The Steelers have had three coaches since 1969. Three.  There are teams that have had three coaches in four years.  Cleveland I'm looking at you.

I understand the players union needs to defend it's players but this is just such a bad look.  What happens if Watson does it again?  Is everyone going to say well we had no idea?

I haven't heard any owners or playing weighing in on this.  The silence is completely different than when a lot the players and owners spoke out about Colin K. 

[Carey]

1 minute ago, bluegirl147 said:

There is something to be said for consistency off the field.  The Steelers have had three coaches since 1969. Three.  There are teams that have had three coaches in four years.  Cleveland I'm looking at you.

You're being too generous, bluegirl.  The Browns had 3 coaches in two years!

[Notabug]

5 hours ago, Carey said:

You're being too generous, bluegirl.  The Browns had 3 coaches in two years!

Not just 3 coaches in 2 years, but also an interim coach!  And at least 2 of those would be classified as mediocre to bad coaches.  Meanwhile, two of Pittsburgh's 3 coaches since 1969 are Hall of Famers and the third is still coaching and not mediocre at all.

[mojoween]

Tomlin is going to the Hall, I would think.

Dammit that’s two nice things about Pittsburgh make it stop.

Newsbreak headline came across my phone that said “Josh Allen has four word response after fight at practice” and I was having fun trying to think what he said before I read the article.

That’s football life baby    
Mind your own business    
I’d do it again    
Next time he’ll learn

for the record it was

 

good teams sometimes fight

(spoiler tags added in case you wanted to guess too)

Edited August 4, 2022 by mojoween

[Johannah]

22 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

...

(Aside: @JTMacc99- appreciate the list of picks in the Top 5. Very illuminating. One question- who is MIQ? I can't figure that out)

Only 3 teams not on the list are Patriots, Ravens and Steelers.  I don't think MIQ fits any of them...  ???

[merylinkid]

I'm going with typo for MIA(mi).   The Q is right up the A on the keyboard.

[Johannah]

12 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

I'm going with typo for MIA(mi).   The Q is right up the A on the keyboard.

Makes sense, except Miami is already on the list.

[Danielg342]

54 minutes ago, Johann said:

Only 3 teams not on the list are Patriots, Ravens and Steelers.  I don't think MIQ fits any of them...  ???

Only thing I can think of is a rescinded pick but they're usually not that high. I'm truly stumped.

[mojoween]

Wait Jason Garrett works for NBC?  Why?

Severe weather alert, everyone seek shelter, except for the people on the metal stand with cameras and electrical equipment.

[Carey]

2 minutes ago, mojoween said:

Wait Jason Garrett works for NBC?  Why?

Severe weather alert, everyone seek shelter, except for the people on the metal stand with cameras and electrical equipment.

Likely to fill the void left by Drew Brees.  FWIW, people said he did well during NBC's coverage of the USFL.

Looks like yet another game that probably isn't going to play out

[mojoween]

I fell asleep before the teams came back out after the delay, woke up to Derek Jeter because two things were recording, fell asleep again and then woke up and went to bed.  I didn’t watch one minute of something I had been looking forward to all day.

Which it sounds like it was exactly the type of game you would expect from the first preseason outing played on not a regular NFL field.  Great if you’re a Raiders fan, not so much for everyone else.

[Carey]

I watched the opening kickoff, and then immediately switched to PYL right after the ball hit the ground for a touchback.  Therefore, while I tuned into some action, it is fair to say that I really did not watch a second of that game.

Turned the TV off around 9 or whatever.  It's a possibility that I don't watch anything until 4 weeks from next Thursday.  Things may be on here and there, but there's no reason to sit through any games in full before next month.

Due to the incoming conditions, at one point, I actually expected the HOF Game to be cancelled out of nowhere

[mojoween]

Watson’s lawyers are whining about the NFL using its right to appeal.  Well maybe if your asshole client weren’t a serial sexual assaulter, we wouldn’t be here, ever think about that?

[JTMacc99]

14 hours ago, Johann said:

Makes sense, except Miami is already on the list.

It was almost definitely Miami.  I scrolled through the 20 drafts on wikipedia and typed the MIA or JAX into a single column on an Excel spreadsheet next to the year of the pick. Then I ran a pivot table off of that 100 X 2 set of data.

If there were an MIQ in the place of an MIA, Excel wouldn't have known enough to combine then on the pivot table, and I didn't proofread it to check for such problems.

My biggest problem was figuring out what to call the teams that had moved. The Raiders, the Chargers, and the Rams all had previous locations.  

15 hours ago, Johann said:

Only 3 teams not on the list are Patriots, Ravens and Steelers

Which by the way, is pretty damn impressive to not have a single horrible season in twenty years, or at least bad enough that you would want to move up into the top five to get a QB. 

The highest the Ravens picked in that span was 6th (Ronnie Stanley, so not wasting the opportunity for sure) in 2016.  Last three picks in the top five were 5th in 2000 (which was Atlanta's pick they got in 1999) Jamal Lewis, 4th in 1997 Peter Boulware, and 4th in 1996 Jonathan Ogden. (I SO wanted them to screw up that pick and leave Ogden for the Giants picking 5th. No such luck.)

The highest the Steelers picked in that span was 10th in 2019 Devin Bush and 11th in 2004 Roethlisberger. They haven't had a top 5 pick since 1970! Picking 1st overall, they went with some guy named Terry Bradshaw. (Picked 4th in 1969 with another no-name guy, Joe Greene.)

And the Patriots highest pick in the span was 10th in 2008 Jerod Mayo.  Last top 5 pick for the Patriots was 4th in 1994 picking Willie McGinest.

[Carey]

I believe 4th is the earliest Baltimore has picked throughout their history upon moving to Maryland in 1996.  With all their high picks, and some decent culture, it wasn't too much of a shocker that they went from zero to hero.  FWIW, and I may be drawing a blank, but I don't think they ever had a first overall pick play for them (via a trade or free agency).  I think they have but it's likely someone that was drafted at that spot in the late 80 to early-mid 90s, if at all.

1 hour ago, JTMacc99 said:

The highest the Steelers picked in that span was 10th in 2019 Devin Bush and 11th in 2004 Roethlisberger. They haven't had a top 5 pick since 1970! Picking 1st overall, they went with some guy named Terry Bradshaw. (Picked 4th in 1969 with another no-name guy, Joe Greene.)

Technically, Pittsburgh hasn't fallen into the Top 10 category in quite a long time.  The Bush pick was one they moved up to (similar to how they got Troy Polamalu).  Speaking up which...

1 hour ago, JTMacc99 said:

And the Patriots highest pick in the span was 10th in 2008 Jerod Mayo.  Last top 5 pick for the Patriots was 4th in 1994 picking Willie McGinest.

While true, many people would not have to do much if any research here.  I guess New England was very clever if they're picking 10th following a season where they didn't lose any regular season games.

In a sense, it was brilliant since they lost their 31st pick, but similar to how they've "lost" picks before, they end up regaining them.  Helps explain how they've picked before the Steelers several times despite finishing ahead of them in the standings every year but twice since 2004

[JTMacc99]

48 minutes ago, Carey said:

I guess New England was very clever if they're picking 10th following a season where they didn't lose any regular season games.

Heh. So LOTS of interesting things about surrounding this 10th pick in 2008.

In the 2007 draft, the Patriots traded their own R1 pick, 28th overall, to San Francisco in exchange for the 49ers 110th pick in 2007 and their first round pick in 2008.

• The Patriots traded that 110th pick to the Raiders for Randy Moss.
• The 49ers used the 28th pick to select Joe Staley.
• So... win-win

In the 2008 draft, the 49ers pick was actually 7th overall, not 10th. The Patriots traded that pick and the 164th pick in that draft to the Saints for the 10th and the 78th picks.

• The Saints used 7 to pick DT Sedrick Ellis and 164 on Guard Carl Nicks. Nicks was actually the better player, with two pro-bowls and first and second team All-Pro selections.
• The Patriots used 10 on Jerod Mayo who went to a couple of Pro Bowls and one first team All-Pro selection, and 78 on LB Shawn Crable who  didn't play much at all for the Patriots due in part to injuries.

[Johannah]

5 hours ago, JTMacc99 said:

...

If there were an MIQ in the place of an MIA, Excel wouldn't have known enough to combine then on the pivot table, and I didn't proofread it to check for such problems.

...

Ah, yes, definitely explains it.  Thanks!

[xaxat]

Stephen Ross is full of shit. His suggestion of tanking was a joke? That's like joking that you are betting on your team. It's something you don't joke about.

How did Sean Payton escape without punishment? I assume Brady is in the clear because players can't tamper under the CBA, but Payton was a coach, management.

[Fukui San]

4 hours ago, Carey said:

While true, many people would not have to do much if any research here.  I guess New England was very clever if they're picking 10th following a season where they didn't lose any regular season games.

In a sense, it was brilliant since they lost their 31st pick, but similar to how they've "lost" picks before, they end up regaining them.  Helps explain how they've picked before the Steelers several times despite finishing ahead of them in the standings every year but twice since 2004

I "love" that because it's New England that it was somehow nefarious that they had made a trade for that high first round pick that year.

I had forgotten the actual dealings that got New England the Jerod Mayo pick. Thanks to JTMacc99 for the legwork. I had just assumed that it was the other New England meme of them trading away a very good player because they didn't want to pay them big bucks like Richard Seymour or Chandler Jones.

New England was obviously quite happy with the Mayo pick and his career, and he's on the coaching staff now and could very well be the de facto defensive coordinator, but he was missing that one extra level that would have made him an all timer rather than a very good player.

Edited August 5, 2022 by Fukui San

[Carey]

2 hours ago, xaxat said:

Stephen Ross is full of shit. His suggestion of tanking was a joke? That's like joking that you are betting on your team. It's something you don't joke about.

How did Sean Payton escape without punishment? I assume Brady is in the clear because players can't tamper under the CBA, but Payton was a coach, management.

The fact that Stephen Ross didn't have to answer for his crimes is pathetic.  Not that he didn't get into trouble, but that he got a pass because "he was joking" which is a pure total double standard.  ITA; it's not something you joke about, especially if a player jokes about a decision that affects the integrity of the game.  I don't think a player would get the book tossed at him for it (unless it is related to gambling), but that person would totally get fined/suspended.

I think if Payton doesn't retire they nail him for sure.  I don't know about Tom; in this case the most they'd be able to do is a fine.  Not sure he had that much control, as a team needs to agree to take him (and Brady has to want to go there)

[JTMacc99]

2 hours ago, Fukui San said:

Thanks to JTMacc99 for the legwork.

I find this stuff interesting, because it puts in perspective all of the instant analysis we all do after drafts, as well as brings things into focus about how much one thing affects another thing.

When I take a look at the three teams that never picked in the top 5, you spot that two of them had only two head coaches in the entire 20 years and the other one had the same coach the entire time.

The Steelers and Patriots, for all intents and purposes, had the same QB for almost all of those 20 years. The Ravens went from Kyle Boller (with some Steve McNair tossed in) then very consistent stretches of Flacco into Jackson.

Obviously those two things are both a reason for continued success and are in start contrast to the teams who spent a lot of time drafting at the top.

Also, two of teams had somewhat better than average hits on really good players in rounds 4-7. The truth is, it's highly unlikely to find future pro bowl payers on day 3 of the draft.  Look at the guys Baltimore and the Patriots found later in the draft:

• NE Asante Samuel
• Bal Ovie Mughelli
• NE Dan Koppen
• NE Matt Cassel (he counts)
• NE Stephen Gostkowski
• Bal Sam Koch
• Bal Le'Ron McClain
• Pit Antonio Brown
• Bal Tyrod Taylor
• Bal Justin Tucker (undrafted free agent)
• Bal Kyle Juszczyk
• Bal Ryan Jensen
• NE Malcom Butler (undrafted free agent)
• Bal Za'Darius Smith
• Bal Darren Waller
• Bal Matt Judon
• Bal Patrick Ricard
• NE Kenny Moore (undrafted free agent)
• NE J. C. Jackson (undrafted free agent)
• NE Jake Bailey

[DrSpaceman73]

You cant really count kickers. No one drafts them in the first three rounds. All of them are going to be lower round picks anymore. 

But no doubt the top teams over the years find value in all rounds and no wasted picks. 

[Carey]

1 minute ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

You cant really count kickers. No one drafts them in the first three rounds. All of them are going to be lower round picks anymore. 

But no doubt the top teams over the years find value in all rounds and no wasted picks. 

That's fair enough.  I'll count Tucker since he's exceeded expectations & is probably Canton Bound.

33 minutes ago, JTMacc99 said:

I find this stuff interesting, because it puts in perspective all of the instant analysis we all do after drafts, as well as brings things into focus about how much one thing affects another thing.

When I take a look at the three teams that never picked in the top 5, you spot that two of them had only two head coaches in the entire 20 years and the other one had the same coach the entire time.

The Steelers and Patriots, for all intents and purposes, had the same QB for almost all of those 20 years. The Ravens went from Kyle Boller (with some Steve McNair tossed in) then very consistent stretches of Flacco into Jackson.

Obviously those two things are both a reason for continued success and are in start contrast to the teams who spent a lot of time drafting at the top.

Also, two of teams had somewhat better than average hits on really good players in rounds 4-7. The truth is, it's highly unlikely to find future pro bowl payers on day 3 of the draft.

Pretty spot here.  Not much, if anything, to disagree with (apologies for yet another double negative)

While a legend like Colin Cowherd would put the Rams in first place in terms of the best culture in the NFL, as it relates to the team & ownership, I don't think I'd put Los Angeles on my Mount Rushmore in terms of the most awesome teams in the league.

The best culture in terms of the whole picture, from the top to the bottom would be Baltimore, New England, and Pittsburgh for sure.  I'd give a slight edge to Kansas City over the Rams, but the mentioned teams, IMO, are the best in terms of culture.  No nonsense, pretty fair, success, winning, and a lot more.  A big reason why those teams do well is pretty much all about culture.  Without it, teams struggle, and end up nowhere

[DrSpaceman73]

15 minutes ago, Carey said:

That's fair enough.  I'll count Tucker since he's exceeded expectations & is probably Canton Bound.

Pretty spot here.  Not much, if anything, to disagree with (apologies for yet another double negative)

While a legend like Colin Cowherd would put the Rams in first place in terms of the best culture in the NFL, as it relates to the team & ownership, I don't think I'd put Los Angeles on my Mount Rushmore in terms of the most awesome teams in the league.

The best culture in terms of the whole picture, from the top to the bottom would be Baltimore, New England, and Pittsburgh for sure.  I'd give a slight edge to Kansas City over the Rams, but the mentioned teams, IMO, are the best in terms of culture.  No nonsense, pretty fair, success, winning, and a lot more.  A big reason why those teams do well is pretty much all about culture.  Without it, teams struggle, and end up nowhere

Historically or currently for culture?  

Historically I'd have a tough time putting KC and la rams at the time. 

Maybe currently. But both have been good for like five years, a short span, and it can change quickly.  Seattle even after blowing the new England superbowl looked poised for a long run and certainly expected to be back soon. Never returned and now it's a new Era post russel Wilson.  I don't think you can judge culture based on five years. And it's hard to judge at all in the present much easier historically. 

[Carey]

Currently for sure.  However, there has to be time removed from the present period, added to a solid prediction that it's going to be that way for the next several years.  In other words, the Rams and Kansas City have both been pretty good since 2016, and I don't see either one falling off the map within the next 2 seasons.

On the other hand, who knows what'll happen with the Steelers, Ravens, or Patriots.  They all could fall real soon.  However, the stability has been there for the 3 teams for the better part of 2 decades.  As mentioned, 5 coaches among the teams (with Bill being the one present the whole time, but Tomlin & Harbaugh following people that had long stints).  They've had their winning, championship moments; regardless of what happens real soon, their legacies are there & it can only grown from here

[merylinkid]

14 hours ago, JTMacc99 said:

Also, two of teams had somewhat better than average hits on really good players in rounds 4-7. The truth is, it's highly unlikely to find future pro bowl payers on day 3 of the draft

But what you do find is the solid players who are the bread and butter of a team.   You might have a really great QB.   But if you don't have a decent OLine, it doesn't matter.   You want guys who are solid, dependendable players.   Line guys know they aren't getting a lot of individual accolades.   But they know they are important pieces of the overall team.   On every play 11 guys have something to do.   You want good guys at every position, even if only some of them are great.    Good teams find those solid, dependable guys consistently.   Bad teams go for the flash player and then forget to make sure he has good supporting players.

Perfect example - the Lions.   who CONSISTENTLY pick in the top 5.   they had Stafford as their QB for 9 years.   For several of those years he had Calvin Johnson to throw to.   But they didn't do diddly.   Revolving head coaches.   No other threats other than CJ which means the other team kinda knows what plays you are running.   They forgot the rest of the team needed to be good and that they needed consistency.

[JTMacc99]

On 8/6/2022 at 9:13 AM, merylinkid said:

But what you do find [in rounds 4-7] is the solid players who are the bread and butter of a team.

I do agree with you that in order for a team to be successful, they need to have a solid team across the board and not just a few good players taken at the top of the draft (using the Lions as a fine example.)  Again, using your example of an offensive line, it's pretty clear that an offensive line is only as good as its worst player allows. One terrible player in the mix brings the whole unit down by a lot.

But I stand by my statement that it's unusual for teams to find good players. in R4-R7.  I'll even expand it to say it's unusual to even find solid starters in R4-R7.

You can see it when you look at a good teams depth chart right now.  I'll randomly select the Bengals and the Saints. The former just recently got good and the latter has been a good team for many years.

Of the 22 guys listed by Ourlads as the starters on the depth charts:

The Bengals have four (4!) players who weren't selected in the top 3 rounds. Center Ted Karras R6, Nose Tackle DJ Reader R5, Cornerback Mike Hilton (undrafted FA, although the Bengals used a first round pick on Dax Hill in 2022 to replace him), and La'el Collins who was undrafted but was clearly a R1 talent.)

So for all intents and purposes, the Bengals have a grand total of 2 guys who aren't R1-R3 kind of players.  (Like I said, I picked them randomly, so I'm going to guess that's probably an unusually high number.)

The Saints also have four (4!) who weren't selected in the top 3 rounds. DT David Onyemata R4, DT Shy Tuttle (undrafted FA), Defensive Back C.J. Gardner-Johnson R4, OT James Hurst (undrafted Free Agent by Baltimore in 2014)

Okay, since that was 2 for 2 with virtually no starters coming from outside of the top 3 rounds, I'll pick one more team. Let's go with the Steelers...

The Steelers have 3. CB Levi Wallace (undrafted FA), OT Dan Moore Jr. R4, and OG Kevin Dotson. R4.

[roamyn]

Apparently Matt Rhule is a tyrant.

There was a tweet that at Saturday’s practice, aft Baker hit Rashad Higgins (who he played with in CLE) for a long pass TD, Rashad and the offense went OTT celebrating.  

Rashad was charged a penalty for excessive celebration, but Rhule stopped the entire game and made his entire offense do laps around the field in mid-90s heat.

I think that’s OTT.  He must be under a lot of stress to produce this year.

[Xeliou66]

9 minutes ago, roamyn said:

Apparently Matt Rhule is a tyrant.

There was a tweet that at Saturday’s practice, aft Baker hit Rashad Higgins (who he played with in CLE) for a long pass TD, Rashad and the offense went OTT celebrating.  

Rashad was charged a penalty for excessive celebration, but Rhule stopped the entire game and made his entire offense do laps around the field in mid-90s heat.

I think that’s OTT.  He must be under a lot of stress to produce this year.

Yeah I heard about this. I’m not sure if Rhule is cut out to be an NFL coach, that sounded over the top. He’s definitely on the hot seat, a lot of Panthers fans were calling for him to be fired after last season. I think the Panthers have a chance to have a decent season this year, Mayfield is a huge improvement over Darnold at QB, but I’m not sure if Rhule is a good NFL coach, and if the Panthers have a lousy season again he’s gone.

[roamyn]

Quote

Mayfield is a huge improvement over Darnold at QB, but I’m not sure if Rhule is a good NFL coach,

Mayfield has had FOUR coaches in four years.  

One a very good coach, one a horrible idea, one mediocre coach, and one interi fairly good coach.

I don’t foresee good things with his fifth, but maybe his two years with Stefanski gave him some groundwork.

[Danielg342]

7 hours ago, roamyn said:

Apparently Matt Rhule is a tyrant.

There was a tweet that at Saturday’s practice, aft Baker hit Rashad Higgins (who he played with in CLE) for a long pass TD, Rashad and the offense went OTT celebrating.  

Rashad was charged a penalty for excessive celebration, but Rhule stopped the entire game and made his entire offense do laps around the field in mid-90s heat.

I think that’s OTT.  He must be under a lot of stress to produce this year.

I'd like to think practice is one of those times the players should have a little more fun and not be bogged down by the NFL's draconian rules. Unless what was done was extremely problematic and/or a player has a history of going over the top in actual games, I don't think the coach should be limiting how his players celebrate in practice. It may be the only place where they can "let out some steam" concerning their games.

[nittany cougar]

8 hours ago, roamyn said:

Apparently Matt Rhule is a tyrant.

There was a tweet that at Saturday’s practice, aft Baker hit Rashad Higgins (who he played with in CLE) for a long pass TD, Rashad and the offense went OTT celebrating.  

Rashad was charged a penalty for excessive celebration, but Rhule stopped the entire game and made his entire offense do laps around the field in mid-90s heat.

I think that’s OTT.  He must be under a lot of stress to produce this year.

This reminds me of the episode of "A Football Life" about Dick Vermeil.  The episode showed how Vermeil was really hard on the players, sometimes making them have two practices a day or play until they were sick. When he coached the Rams in 1999, the players got so sick of his tactics that they walked out.  They called a team meeting and told Vermeil what was wrong with his practice techniques.  Vermeil agreed to try something new if it would make the players happier.  That year, he won his first and only Super Bowl. 

Rhule needs to take a lesson from one of the greats and try to meet the players halfway.

Edited August 8, 2022 by nittany cougar

[mojoween]

SportsCenter mentioned that Kareem Hunt asked for a trade and Cleveland “politely declined”.  I wonder how that went?

Kareem: “Hey the proximity to DeShaun is making people remember that I’m not such a good dude either, I would like to be traded somewhere I can hide.”

Browns Management: “No thank you.”