Lea Michele/Rachel Berry

[camussie]

I would imagine Matt's first contract specified he got top billing and and it hasn't changed since, not even as he became more supporting in practice and Lea became the undisputed lead.  It isn't uncommon for actor's contract to have clauses like that.  For example, on Dawson's Creek JVDB continued to get top billing and the highest salary (as the character the show was named after) even though the show definitely evolved to the Joey show by season 5.   Now that salary wasn't much more than Katie Holmes but it was more.  

Edited August 31, 2014 by camussie

[Myrna123]

Lea Michele got exactly the same deal any other actress of her stature and experience would have gotten when she signed her contact to play Rachel. Are you suggesting that at some point, mid-contract, the corporate powers that be should have said, "Gosh that Lea Michele is super--let's forget that silly old contract and pay her a boatload more!" What kind of soon-to-be unemployed moron would do that?

Fox is fulfilling their end of the contract Lea Michele signed. You can think her representation did a bad job negotiating her contract, I guess.

I don't think the issue is providing the names of actresses who are in the sixth year of a show who make markedly less than Michele. I think the question is can anyone provide the names of an untested lead in a tv show making markedly more in her first seven-year contract than Michele?

Edited August 31, 2014 by Myrna123

[camussie]

To be fair it is common for there to be re-negotiations a year or two into that seven year contract if the show is successful and/or if someone is a break-out star.  It seems like that is what happened on Glee too as all of the cast is making more than what they started at, Lea especially.  An exception to that practice is George Clooney who famously didn't re-negotiate his original 5 year ER contract even though he was the undisputed break out of that show.  

 

Where it seems like there was some mistakes made by the cast management was not negotiating for a bigger piece of the extras pie (song sales, concert proceeds).  I even understand why they may not have been as diligent about that as they should have been.  It was a completely different model for a show and it seems none of them realized how big those revenue streams were going to be nor how much work it was going to require from the cast.  If there ever is a show like Glee again I would bet the management of the people in that cast don't make the same mistakes.  

[Myrna123]

"If there ever is a show like Glee again I would bet the management of the people in that cast don't make the same mistakes.

I think there will always be performers willing to sign on for the exposure without caring much about compensation beyond having a steady paycheck and not having to wait tables anymore. Performers are a dime a dozen. The guys holding the big whopping piles of money to invest in a show are fewer and farther between. Edited August 31, 2014 by Myrna123

[tom87]

I have always wonder how they dispersed that money. 

 

I mean did Lea get more cause she lead on some many more songs are did they all get a flat rate for any song they sang on  or what?

 

From FOX store:

Of the 43 million singles sold from GLEE, over 10 million of those are Lea Michele songs.

 

 

So if they know that they have been separating it some way  but for what reasons? 

[Cranberry]

I'm trying to think of actors who would be a good comparison. How about the cast of The O.C.? Mostly unknowns on a FOX show that was a huge hit right off the bat and lasted four seasons. Anyone know what Adam Brody, Ben McKenzie, Mischa Barton, and Rachel Bilson made?

 

(And watch the tone, please. You can ask people to back up their assertions without being antagonistic about it.)

[penpen]

 Anyone know what Adam Brody, Ben McKenzie, Mischa Barton, and Rachel Bilson made?

$15 to $25K per episode because they were nobodies on first contracts and that show went down the tubes fast. I don't think they even got a chance to negotiate more when it was on top because it was such a flash in the pan. Gallagher made somewhere more around $40K per episode because he was somebody before it happened, but nobody there got rich off it. That show was done on a shoestring and they barely had money for music rights. They worked with bands to try to get stuff for free for the publicity. It was kind of groundbreaking for that, but nobody got rich off it.

 

I've heard Ben McKenzie is getting a LOT more for Gotham, but that's a few shows down the road for him. When Lea's three shows down the line she'll get a huge salary too.

 

Edited to add: Before anybody asks, I'm embarrassing enough to have watched the show at the time and remember this. I have no idea where you'd find evidence. Sorry. Ben's recent dev deal has been all over the trades though, so good for him.

Edited August 31, 2014 by penpen

[Advance35]

But it is the Rachel Berry Show don't you know :)  .

Being factious.

 

 

If only.   I'm not going to go over the history of the world in regards to this subject and I certainly have know insight on how Ms. Michele feels about her time with the show and salary but IF I were her, I would feel like I had been taken for a ride.   All that time in the studio, the fly by the seat of your pants script revisions rumored to go on backstage, touring way back when this show actually mattered.

 

She seems like a company gal that won't make waves, since it was someone behind the scenes that recommended her for her upcoming spot on SoA and maybe it's things like that, that will make the stench of Glee ultimately pay off but, ya, I would have wanted more.

[fakeempress]

Jeez, the melodrama. It's a first Hwd job for Lea. Do you get top salary at your first job - I don't think so. Let's not lose perspective here. Do you think it was guaranteed that if Glee didn't exist, some other show with more generous producers and network would've picked up Lea from TV/film obscurity and made her, as well as her fellow actors, known to a worldwide audience, all the while paying her way above for a virtual TV unknown? One intangible gain for all these actors is exactly that the show "made" them for Hollywood. It's a cliche but it opened the doors for them. They made connections in Hwd, they got a springboard to get their own projects going (Chris especially), etc. Darren succeeding Dan Rad in How to Succeed would've been unthinkable without Glee. Now they are a known and in most cases proven commodity, and have the cachet to command a higher paycheck and to negotiate better deals. It's a bummer they didn't get a really fair deal on Glee for sure, but it's not guaranteed that they'd have gotten any chance at all otherwise. Also, it's an extremely competitive industry, hundreds of actors scrambling to get a job. There is no guarantee either that post-Glee Lea's career will go on a smooth upward path either. I'm sure Lea and the rest know and understand that very well.

Edited August 31, 2014 by fakeempress

[Sara2009]

I would imagine Matt's first contract specified he got top billing and and it hasn't changed since, not even as he became more supporting in practice and Lea became the undisputed lead. It

isn't uncommon for actor's contract to have clauses like that. For example, on Dawson's Creek JVDB continued to get top billing and the highest salary (as the character the show was named after) even though the show definitely

evolved to the Joey show by season 5. Now

that salary wasn't much more than Katie Holmes

but it was more.

This also wasn't Matt's first rodeo. He had negotiated contracts before, so he knew how to make sure he didn't get taken for a ride,

[Advance35]

Jeez, the melodrama. It's a first Hwd job for Lea. Do you get top salary at your first job - I don't think so.

 

 

Actually I did.  

 

And whether the Glee relation will prove a help or hindrance is yet to be determined.   Jeez.    Ruffled feather's over an opinion continues.

[fakeempress]

No, I just can't rationally understand the need to pity her and proclaim her a victim when it's obvious Glee made her a star (obviously she supplied the talent but the show supplied the opportunity). From now on, it partly depends on her what she'll do with that capital, but it's also still a matter of chance. Nobody can predict how anyone's career of the Glee kids is going to be. So many unknowns. And if you got top rate at your first job, good for you. But this is not how Hollywood works. There are minimum rates guaranteed, and anything above it is to be negotiated. 

Edited August 31, 2014 by fakeempress

[Advance35]

Again one doesn't have to understand another's opinion.  In her shoes I would not be pleased.   Glee isn't held in high regard, it's proven such a disaster I question whether anyone will be impressed with it's "stars."    "I was a headliner on Glee".....I wonder what that will mean to studios/producers/directors and so forth as time passes.   Hence my sympathy for Ms. Michele.  

[fakeempress]

Now I got it. You are projecting onto her. This is a different story, nothing to do with Lea or the reality of the industry in which she operates.

Edited August 31, 2014 by fakeempress

[caracas1914]

No, I just can't rationally understand the need to pity her and proclaim her a victim when it's obvious Glee made her a star

 

Who said she's a victIm?   If player X in a baseball team gets Y amount of dollars  while comparable players in the league get more, it's  just stating a fact. 

 

I"m sure Lea isn't ready to perform MIME on the street of LA to survive.

Most HW actors/performers are probably overpaid, LOL. Yet that's another issue entirely.

[fakeempress]

Who said she's a victIm?  

If that's not a rhetorical question - I was referring to comments like "IF I were her, I would feel like I had been taken for a ride."

Edited August 31, 2014 by fakeempress

[Cranberry]

Watch it, guys. If you find yourself getting worked up over an actor's salary, walk away for a bit. I don't like having to break out the yellow posts!

[Sara2009]

I think there are " Glee " actors who have been screwed over, but Lea isn't one of them. I'm not referring to salary, though.

Edited August 31, 2014 by Sara2009

[Advance35]

Now I got it. You are projecting onto her. This is a different story, nothing to do with Lea or the reality of the industry in which she operates.

 

 

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

 

Anyway, sympathies to Ms. Michele but moving on, since she's on this titanic until the crash I'm still hoping she'll make a bad pie palatable by getting Mr. Groff back for an episode or two.   Hands down IMO her best screen partner.

[tom87]

There are just so many variables in determining pay in  in Show Biz.

 

Having a name, having experience, the type of show, the network etc.

 

I am pretty sure Lea started off making more than the other kids and her salary has gone up each year and has  more than tripled.    I would bet some kids  maybe doubled their salary at most.

 

My guess she started at $25K Matt was reported at $30k - I would guess the others got $15k-20K  - Cory maybe $20k-25K

2011- reported $40-45k

2012- reported  $75k

2013 - reported $80k

 

We also know over the years they have adjusted their work scheduled so they aren't on set 5 days a week for 14 hours a day.

[penpen]

Remember the days Adam Brody was Lane's adorable love interest and none of us had any idea this show, that show or even that other show could ever go so wrong? Those were the days. Lea was a literal Broadway Baby and we were all so much more innocent.

Edited August 31, 2014 by penpen

[SevenStars]

If we are talking about Lea getting pay for the amount of work she does, then I would say she and most of the cast of Glee were/are WAY underpaid because they work damn hard to keep Glee going from the first episode and onward. 

 

But if we are talking about Lea getting pay an amount that reflect the success of Glee, then I would say that she is getting pay enough and some might argue too much for a show that can barely reach two million viewers in it's season finale. Because the success of Glee didn't last longer than two seasons, by the third season Glee was going down steadily and sometime quickly. Fox gave her a platform to introduce herself to a  much, much bigger audience and she couldn't hold them for longer than two seasons.Therefore she showed that she was an unreliable investment, that an investment on her was a risk because she couldn't keep the show successful. I'm saying this because many claim the success of Glee is thanks to Lea and Lea is the face of Glee now. 

 

As for Lea getting a raw deal when she signed that contract, I don't agree with that because when Glee started the only people who were taking all the risk in losing money were the producers . They were the ones who hired and signed contract with newbie actors, who might have giving them problems down the line. They hired productions team without knowing if they would get their money back. They are the ones who brought the right to the songs, not knowing if people would actually care enough or love those actors voices enough to actually go out and give their hard earn money to iTunes to listen to songs that other more well known and sometimes better singers have already put out. If Glee had failed, the only ones who would have lost millions are the producers.  Lea and the rest of the cast would have walked away with money in their pockets because whether the first episode of Glee got 0 rating/viewers,  their contract say they get pay no matter what. 

 

So, to me Lea is not underpay base on the success of Glee. If Glee had stay successful for at least 4 seasons, I would agree that she is grossly underpay. But Glee gave Lea something that money can't buy which is the clout to make the demands and get what she wants in the next contract. 

Edited September 1, 2014 by SevenStars

[tom87]

I'm saying this because many claim the success of Glee is thanks to Lea and Lea is the face of Glee now.

 

And many claim it is an ensemble show and many claim season 4 was all Blaine and Blam and....

 

Funny the people actually at fault for the shows failing are making way more than the cast combined. 

[ancslove]

http://thebazingacast.co/2014/08/21/tv-guide-who-earns-what-includes-cast-of-the-big-bang-theory/

 

Some salaries for this season, although unfortunately, none of Glee's actors are listed.  Some highlights, for comparison's sake:

 

The adult leads of Modern Family are getting $190,000 per episode, which is impressive, even considering that Modern Family is still an Emmy darling.  The leads on Bones get $250,000 per episode, although they are both also Executive Producers, so that probably comes with a salary bonus?  Jensen Ackles gets $175,000 for every Supernatural episode, which tells me that either he is grossly overpaid or Glee is grossly underpaid.  (Probably a bit of both.)

 

So, Glee aren't the worst off, comparatively speaking, but Lea is on the lower end, for the lead of a decently-longrunning series.  I wonder how much Sarah Michelle Gellar made at the end of Buffy and Hayden Panettiere made at the end of Heroes.  They seem to be more similar in nature - cult shows with great buzz at the beginning, that fell in quality by the end.  (Ok, yes, Glee's fall is far more dramatic.)

 

(The one who is really getting severely underpaid, from this list, is Lucy Hale of Pretty Little Liars, who is still "only" making $42,000 per episode.)

[camussie]

SuperNatural has run almost 10 years though and strangely enough it does well in syndication (it is one of those shows that I thought would fizzle in syndication but it hasn't).  I will go back to my original point.  I think if Glee was a regular drama they all have been paid within reason.  Where they all, not just Lea Michele, got shafted was the extra work they put in and didn't seem to get much compensation for.  It is my understanding they all saw very little of the concert proceeds and I find that appalling.  

Edited September 1, 2014 by camussie

[SevenStars]

And many claim it is an ensemble show and many claim season 4 was all Blaine and Blam and....

 

Funny the people actually at fault for the shows failing are making way more than the cast combined. 

That's cause like it or not, Glee wasn't their first or their last successful show. That's how RM managed to get Glee two season renewal when it was clear to everyone that Glee was dying a quick and painful death.  They did that as an investment in RM, who they believe can produce successful show for them in the future, and to them, wasting money on a dying show to get more money in the future was worth it.

But I agree with you, the failure of Glee after season two is on the writers, not Lea ( whether people agree or disagree that she is the face of Glee) or anyone else. Because no matter how talented Lea is, she can't sell something that the audience see as trash, therefore, refuse to keep buying.  But in the end, Lea might get a chance to be in RM position of getting pay a really high salary for a show that isn't all that successful. She paid her dues with Glee and in the future she most likely will get a chance to gain more.

[tom87]

That's cause like it or not, Glee wasn't their first or their last successful show. That's how RM managed to get Glee two season renewal when it was clear to everyone that Glee was dying a quick and painful death.  They did that as an investment in RM, who they believe can produce successful show for them in the future, and to them, wasting money on a dying show to get more money in the future was worth it.

 

I know.

[Omnihelix]

Oh, I would love to see Rachel interact with Sue. Because Sue will not sugarcoat just how completely Rachel fucked her own career every single time they came within 50 yards of one another. And take enormous pleasure in doing so.

 

I can easily see Rachel looking for sympathy from all the usual suspects who had been quick to offer support to her in the past, and find that it's not exactly forthcoming because it's Rachel's own fault that she's lost everything. It was Rachel's decision to quit NYADA in a manner so arrogant that Ms. Tibideaux wouldn't spit on her if Rachel was on fire (if Ms. Tibideaux would deign to spit on anyone). It was Rachel's choice to quit Funny Girl (after getting a very, very explicit warning about just what would happen if she fucked with te show again). Rachel had all the success she'd dreamed of right in her hands and she threw it all away because she couldn't control her ambitions. It's going to be interesting to see her being told just that right to her face.

Oh yes. And then to see her pick herself back up and maybe go at it differently. But please, no finding her destiny in freaking Lima.  

[caracas1914]

I"m sort of surprised the show actually made Rachel pay the price for  dumping "Funny Girl" and Broadway.  I hope that scenes of her reality show are depicted, Lea would nail the comedy.  :)

[tom87]

I"m sort of surprised the show actually made Rachel pay the price for  dumping "Funny Girl" and Broadway.  I hope that scenes of her reality show are depicted, Lea would nail the comedy.  :)

Where did you get that is was a reality show?

 

I think it was a sit com and MJblog says we see some of it.

[caracas1914]

Well Ok, I guess I got confused because I took that Rachel's "real life" was supposedly  inspiring the writer in 5.20 so that her friends such as Kurt, Brittany and Blaine were going to be characters in her TV show.  If it was a sitcom curious as to if it was going to be in the mold of whacky single girl in the city ala Rachel in NY.

[Hana Chan]

I"m sort of surprised the show actually made Rachel pay the price for  dumping "Funny Girl" and Broadway. 

 

I'm surprised, but in a pleasant way for a change. They've been telegraphing Rachel making a huge career stumble for quite some time, but this is the first time they've actually pulled the trigger and had Rachel fail professionally at something. I think back to what Ms. Tibideaux told Rachel about her lack of any sense of connection to the theater community and how she was only interested in the spotlight. It always felt to me that her interest in Funny Girl (and NYADA as well) was about how she would be showcased rather than having any sense of responsibility to the show (and her cast mates, who were there merely to serve her). Hell, even Cassandra was warning Rachel that one mistake could render her unemployable and Rachel has a boatload of mistakes to her credit.

 

If the writers were more capable, I would be excited about seeing Rachel struggle through this huge shift in her career fortunes (to go from being the big star to coming back as a failure because she fucked up). To see her at first trying to make it seem like coming back to Lima is all her choice (when in reality it's because she couldn't get a job in Branson at this point), wrestling with her own sense of responsibility over what happened, wrestling over her impulse to try to make New Directions about herself (the way it was when she was a student) and then at the end, finding the resolve to return to NY and start hitting the pavement to try to rebuild her career. We can end the show with another time jump (a year maybe) where Rachel has been through the audition mill and faced rejection after rejection until she finally found a production willing to give her a shot at redemption.

 

But this is Glee and I think that aliens descending and offering Rachel a job headlining on a space station in the Andromeda galaxy is a more probable outcome.

[penpen]

 (when in reality it's because she couldn't get a job in Branson at this point)

I would buy a plane ticket to see Lea Michele play Branson. If her career ever falls that far, I'm there to experience the self-loathing first hand. If these writers had any sense at all, we'd see Rachel there in cowboy boots doing some kind of April Rhodes retrospective. That would sell failure better than going home to cry on her remaining daddy. Too bad this show isn't funny anymore. 

Edited September 1, 2014 by penpen

[Advance35]

Well, Lea tweeted a picture of her in wardrobe and I must say I like it.   It's a  little to early to predict complete success but so far wardrobe wise we are off to a good start for her.

 

I just really hope they let Rachel bring the funny this year.   No snivelling to Martyr!Kurt, no reaching out to Santana, since it's the final 13 I want Rachel to be concerned with RACHEL, like she was when this show was actually good.   I could stomache maybe 1 or 2 "moments" with a kid character like a student or her Dad, but that's it.   Hopefully Kurt and halo are kept in the Blaine storyline for the most part and Rachel mixes it up with Sue, Schue, I could tolerate Sam, and maybe just to see something different, a friendship with Karofsky, maybe it's developed since she's been back in Lima.  

 

All this before a very nice last inning appearance by Jesse St. James, with whom she rides off into the sunset because he's managed to acquire a studio of some kind and he thinks he could be of help to her getting back on a stage somewhere (connections are a big part of making it in the business afterall).

[Hana Chan]

Personally I would love to see Kurt completely separated from Rachel so that she can stew in her own failure without tainting him. I was totally fed up last season with watching Rachel mistreat Kurt for all these perceived slights (when he was acting in her best interest and trying to keep her from making huge mistakes). Or that for most of the season he bent over backwards at every stage to reassure her and help support her so that she could make her big debut. That she refused to listen to him and insulted him for his consideration and is now stuck in Lima with no career prospects? Fuck her. I would love to see her trying to convince Kurt that he doesn't need that silly NYADA anymore and Broadway is so... yesterday and wouldn't it be more fun for him to stay in Lima with her to lead New New Directions to glory and have him look at her like she's been smoking the sparkly crack.

 

I also hope that Rachel is funny, but not in the raging OTT bitch diva that we suffered through last season. Let her get the "Poor me, my career is ruined and I have no where to go," pity party out with the first episode and then I want to see her struggling with actually being a coach for the new noobs. Let her keep trying to use New New Directions as a way to feature herself while the kids look on with a collective WTF? I'll be in hysterics if she tries to act like she's some kind of big star to the kids (hoping to impress them) and then gets immediately shot down because unlike Rachel (who apparently doesn't know how Google works), they actually bothered to look her up and know why she couldn't get cast in a bit part at the local community theater now.

[Advance35]

Personally I would love to see Kurt completely separated from Rachel

 

Only part I can agree with.   Since the show feels he must be featured and apparently they feel he MUST be coaching New!ND with Rachel, hopefully they treat Kurt's part of that storyline like NYADA, heard of but not seen and he's off doing whatever he does with Blaine.   Playing out whatever they have in mind for the Klaine lovestory.

 

I don't think it's happenstance that my favorite Rachel period is Season 1.   She and Kurt really only had 2 episodes in which they heavily interacted.   "Wheels" and "Hairography".   Sigh, the good old days.

[tom87]

I love Hummelberry when they get the balance right.  Problem is Rachel can never be right or gets to take the high road when Kurt is in the picture.

 

But Chris is the better (young) actor of those left and I'd rather she be paired with the better actors so even if the scene is written badly they are at least acted well.

[Advance35]

But Chris is the better (young) actor of those left and I'd rather she be paired with the better actors so even if the scene is written badly they are at least acted well.

 

Meh.  I don't think his "talent" is worth the monotony.  I think new scene partners might be a shot in the arm for the final 13.    The Dave Karofsky actor has been lauded for his talent so maybe a friendship with Rachel might in fact be interesting.   They don't have history any worse than anyone else's and it could tread new ground if Karofsky is well-adjusted and mature vs. Rachel's often OT out for all she can get.   It could be a nice segue or additional avenue to explore while Karofsky is interacting with Blaine.

 

The old Rachel had the outside of a sugar cookie but the inside (in certain circumstances) of a cyanide capsule.   I'd like Rachel to get some of her vinegar back and it's more likely to happen when she's not paired with the show's moral paragon.   Puck could be fun as well.   Too bad Jesse St. James isn't still coaching Vocal Adrenaline.

[caracas1914]

Oh God no, it would be beyond desperate to try to pair Karofsky with Rachel. I think the monotony is they need to break up her self absorption in every scene she's in, it's beyond exhausting to a character who once was a fascinating mix of ambition, guile and naivitie.

Sue and Rachel might be an interesting mix, as is Hummelberry if they actually wrote them good dialogue. Will and Rachel I also enjoyed a lot.

Jonathan Groff has a good career going, needs to stay away from Glee as much as possible, LOL.

[tom87]

I highly doubt there will be a Dave/Rachel storyline.

 

Jon Groff has a nice career but he is such a nice guy he would glee if they wanted him and he could fit it in.  Frankly a guest spot would not hurt his career either.

[Advance35]

Oh God no, it would be beyond desperate to try to pair Karofsky with Rachel. I think the monotony is they need to break up her self absorption in every scene she's in, it's beyond exhausting to a character who once was a fascinating mix of ambition, guile and naivitie.

 

Not anything romantic, just in terms of character interaction.   I could see a friendship treading new ground.    I've never been overly enthused with Humelberry so I've never seen the appeal that others have but what could be isn't worth thinking about in terms of Glee.    Are writers are VERY limited and they should not be challenged because they will fail every time.    They cannot write a balanced Kurt/Rachel friendship so why can't they just NOT interact.

 

They may try to give Karofsky an actual personality for the last stretch and based on spoilers I could see a new mature Karofsky interacting with Rachel in a friendly manner and her growing to actually like and care about him in return.

 

Jon Groff has a nice career but he is such a nice guy he would glee if they wanted him and he could fit it in.  Frankly a guest spot would not hurt his career either.

 

Ya he loves Lea, so I could see him doing it for the Rachel Berry character.

[fakeempress]

 

The old Rachel had the outside of a sugar cookie but the inside (in certain circumstances) of a cyanide capsule.   I'd like Rachel to get some of her vinegar back and it's more likely to happen when she's not paired with the show's moral paragon.

Lest we forget, it was Kurt who lost his S1 mojo after they paired him with Rachel in S2, she retained her self-involvement intact. I'm also for splitting Rachel and Kurt up; I always thought Kurtcedes did it much better for both characters. Kurt in NYADA has been all about Rachel, and then Blaine. I mean, the guy couldn't even start his own band without Rachel jumping on the bandwagon, even though she should've been busy up to her gills with school and Funny Girl, not to speak of the diner. But girl wants the spotlight in everything. The comeback story is about Rachel (and Blaine), and Kurt is only one of the window-dressings. 

Edited September 4, 2014 by fakeempress

[caracas1914]

 

They may try to give Karofsky an actual personality for the last stretch and based on spoilers I could see a new mature Karofsky interacting with Rachel in a friendly manner and her growing to actually like and care about him in return.

 

I think you've confused the GLEE writers with another group of writers who could that.    

 

Pairing Rachel with Karofsky in any way, shape or form makes no narrative sense at all; they have no connection or even shared  history.  Hell, I don't think they've exchanged a single word of dialogue in 5 years.

Edited September 4, 2014 by caracas1914

[tom87]

I mean, the guy couldn't even start his own band without Rachel jumping on the bandwagon.

Excuse me?   Rachel said no actually several times but Kurt kept insisting on it.

 

 

Lest we forget, it was Kurt who lost his S1 mojo after they paired him with Rachel in S2, she retained her self-involvement intact.

 

Kurt lost his mojo cause the writers wanted to  make him look like Saint Kurt  while all the bullying was going on. 

 

 

He was paired with Blaine, Dave, his dad and Finn more than Rachel in season 2.

Edited September 4, 2014 by tom87

[caracas1914]

ALL the characters just service Rachel's SL, sooner or later.  Look at the Broadway Funny Girl conclusion, Rachel sang like 5 solos in that episode while all the other characters (sans Sue) kissed her ass 24/7 and we   were suppose to think there was genuine "tension" about her reviews, which surprise, surprise, turned out to be raves.

[tom87]

Another lie Rachel did not sing 5 solos in Opening Night.  And gee how awful for her to get songs in episode  that was expected for 5 seasons and then was promptly disregarded for a plot point to get them all back to Lima the nest season.

[caracas1914]

My bad, she sang 2 solos and the leads on 1 duet (with Jane) and the clear lead on 1 group number ...so Rachel *only* sang on 4 numbers instead of 5.

 

The point remains that the other characters are her support characters, it is what it is.   I don't think anyone would deny that given Glee's history. It's not just Kurt, as some claimed.  She is the lead character.

Edited September 4, 2014 by caracas1914

[Advance35]

Pairing Rachel with Karofsky in any way, shape or form makes no narrative sense at all; they have no connection or even shared  history.  Hell, I don't think they've exchanged a single word of dialogue in 5 years.

 

There lack of history is what makes it appealing.   Most people don't go through life connected to the people they went through High School with.   I've always felt the idea of Kurt and Rachel as friends was ludicrous for quite a few reasons.   The main one being at optimum, they don't mix as characters.   Kurt's all about doing what's right and blah blah blah.   Rachel's characterization Pre-Kurt, roughly around BOTA, was about the acquisition of fame, she never seemed OVERLY interested in being a good person.    Now she's friends with Kurt and they are not only singing NAUSEATING duets like "For Good" but she confessing to crimes committed (like her attempt to rig the school election) and tearfuly asking Kurt to forgive her.   

 

The old Rachel would have let him take the fall.  This is a girl that saw a teacher fired and blacklisted because he came between her and her chance at the spotlight.   Kurt doesn't interest me, so he can throw morality around like confetti on the OTHER side of the canvas but for some reason TPTB feel Kurt/Rachel MUST interact.   I don't see what it accomplishes, I don't see how anyone can enjoy it (if anyone ever has), just spread characters out.   Rachel with Jesse St. James, (Once in a while) Blaine, Karofsky, Schue, Sue.   That's Rachel and a character narrative.  

 

ALL the characters just service Rachel's SL, sooner or later.  Look at the Broadway Funny Girl conclusion, Rachel sang like 5 solos in that episode while all the other characters (sans Sue) kissed her ass 24/7 and we   were suppose to think there was genuine "tension" about her reviews, which surprise, surprise, turned out to be raves.

 

Many have said the same about Kurt and other characters.  Perspective.  The Great Basement Scene of Season 1, it's been said Finn got the shaft.   And I don't need Rachel to be the center of everything.   On rewatch Season 1 Rachel had her own little storyline in just about every episode, while on the other side of the canvas, something completely unrelated was going on.   It was wonderful.    Her storylines were about her, not her relationship with Finn, again no interaction with Kurt, she was the centeer of her own universe and it worked.  

 

Now the writers seem married to the idea that all these characters MUST interact/be friends.   And I don't think I'll ever understand why.

[caracas1914]

Her storylines were about her, not her relationship with Finn, again no interaction with Kurt, she was the centeer of her own universe and it worked.

 

Actually going back to Season One she had quite a few storylines and scenes with Finn, so no, I don't buy she was in her own little universe with little interaction with the other Glee characters.

[Hana Chan]

Advance35 - the one thing that struck me most about Rachel's character in season one that she wanted 2 things with near equal desperateness. To be a star and to have real friends. The way she sought the approval and friendship of others (including a romantic relationship with Finn) while all the while stomping on everyone's feet was the main focus for a lot of Rachel's stories. She was deeply hurt after Kurt gave her the sad clown hooker makeover (having thought that they were becoming friends). And that has been a major focus of many of Rachel's storylines since. Learning to balance her ambitions and need for the spotlight while still trying to maintain friendships (and often failing).

 

The one good thing about Kurt's relationship with Rachel (at least as far as Rachel is concerned) is that Kurt gets her. Probably better than anyone else because his ambitions are quite similar (though he's not as scorched earth as she is on achieving those goals). He's forgiven her for a lot of shitty behavior that would have had anyone else running for the hills and let's be realistic - how many people would want anything to do with someone who will turn on them like a snake the instant they have a disagreement about anything, or who can't stop seeing everyone around them as competition first? Kurt went to bat for Rachel a lot of times when frankly she didn't deserve it. Like the Funny Girl auditions that he signed her up for because she was too busy mourning that she 1) lost midnight madness to Kurt and 2) turned into a raging diva bitch that alienated the one real friend she has. Or after Bash, when Kurt forgave her rather easily for her insulting rant after she stupidly quit NYADA. Or when he didn't hold her behavior in Frenemies against her.

 

Kurt is one of the very few people (and the only others were Finn and Jesse) who went out of his way in a huge way for Rachel's benefit, sometimes at his own expense. She's certainly not deserving of his friendship, but she's lucky to have it.