Lea Michele/Rachel Berry

[SadieT]

It's just curious that the minute one doesn't fawn over Lea, someone is quick to not fawn over Chris. I suppose if every instance of not fawning over Lea is canceled out by not fawning over Chris, the end result will be only ever fawning over Lea.

I didn't bring up Chris or his writing until it was mentioned by a Chris fan who was attempting to diminish Lea's work by comparing it to Chris's. I was simply responding to the comparison and expanding on it.

And for a thread bearing her name, there's a surprising lack of fawning over Lea here.

[caracas1914]

I'm not looking for Lea to put in the writing hours that someone like Chris did for his books, but this kind of superficial nonsense just makes Lea look (to me) shallow and interested only in self-promotion.

 

As a Chris fan, I have no problem in thinking that Chris is into self-promotion as much as the next person.   People just do it in different ways. 

 

As to Lea:

Even her detractors would not deny that Lea is big time into healthy living, hiking , etc, .  Her instagram has a thousand photos of her jogging, hiking, etc.  So her being interested in writing books that have to do with those activities  doesn't automatically  make her superficial, it's makes her interested IMO in said subjects.   Chris likes fairy tales, Lea likes health/diet, I wouldn't call one area of interest necessarily superior over the other or one more "shallow" then the other.

 

Now I do think Chris writing a successful series  nonfiction books  is impressive , as Chris himself jokingly noted, it gives him bragging rights at most Hollywood gatherings when celebs are trying to one up each other...

Edited February 10, 2015 by caracas1914

[Hana Chan]

I didn't bring up Chris or his writing until it was mentioned by a Chris fan who was attempting to diminish Lea's work by comparing it to Chris's. I was simply responding to the comparison and expanding on it.

And for a thread bearing her name, there's a surprising lack of fawning over Lea here.

 

The only reason I brought up Chris was not to compare their books (because frankly, there is no comparison) but saying that if Chris published a shallow, self-congratulatory "do as I do" self-help book, I wouldn't be particularly impressed with him. Just because I'm a fan doesn't mean that I'm automatically going to like or support everything he does. I'm just fortunate that thus far, he's given me stuff that I can feel good about supporting.

 

And we've gone through this before - threads are for discussing everything about the characters and actors, positive and negative. Not everyone is going to be a fan of every actor on the show and we can be critical as well as supportive here.   

 

Personally, I started out liking Lea a great deal. I think she's got a huge amount of talent and I think that she's selling herself really short by not doing the kind of projects that I would love to get behind. I don't care about her books (since I've got absolutely no use for any celebrity self-help book), but I was disappointed as all hell with her album. She's got a great vocal instrument and instead of putting out an album that could compete with talents like Adele and Celine Dion (her best vocal contemporaries), she did something that I felt was artistically beneath her. Lea disappoints me because I think that she can do so much more, but she insists on staying in the shallow end of the entertainment pool instead of really stretching herself as a performer. In some ways, I think that coming to LA was the worst thing for her, because she got artistically lazy.

[caracas1914]

Some of the most prestigious, quality laden projects can turn out to be totally shit bombs and sometimes what seems a "trivial" project can turn out surprisingly well.  You don't know until the project comes out and even then, it's easier in hindsight to criticize the choices. 

 

I think that coming to LA was the worst thing for her, because she got artistically lazy.

 

I think Lea's work on Glee (from the pilot onward) contributed more than somewhat to the meteoric success of the show.  Without Glee, she wouldn't have gotten the opportunities and doors opened for her that she has with movies, books, albums, etc.

So I have to disagree with becoming a star with Glee by coming to LA was the "worst thing" to happen to Lea Michele. 

 

Once she's free from Glee's time constraints in  few years we can see what choices she makes, but even then, no one can predict the success of any venture (see above).

Edited February 10, 2015 by caracas1914

[Hana Chan]

Lea got the fame, no question about that. But I think that the fame got to her as well. There is nothing wrong with wanting to be a famous star, but I think that Lea was a much better performer in the first two seasons of Glee than she is today. Her singing technique has gotten very sloppy compared to what it was when she first came onto the show and I think as an actor she was much more engaging earlier on.

 

I've got to stress again that while I didn't always like Rachel as a character that I liked Lea. Which is why so many of her project choices disappointed me so much. I wanted better from her.

Edited February 10, 2015 by Hana Chan

[Ceeg]

 In some ways, I think that coming to LA was the worst thing for her, because she got artistically lazy.

 

I don't even know how to respond to this. If Lea hadn't come to LA and gotten a job on Glee, she wouldn't have had an album with Columbia Records at all and she wouldn't be on Ryan Murphy's Scream Queens and she wouldn't have an Emmy or Golden Globe nomination or a SAG Award. 

 

Lea was doing respectable work on Broadway, and in Spring Awakening, but she didn't even get a Tony nomination out of that. I am a HUGE Broadway stan, but there's really only so far you can go in that genre. 

[caracas1914]

Lea got the fame, no question about that. But I think that the fame got to her as well. There is nothing wrong with wanting to be a famous star, but I think that Lea was a much better performer in the first two seasons of Glee than she is today. Her singing technique has gotten very sloppy compared to what it was when she first came onto the show and I think as an actor she was much more engaging earlier on.

 

Well acting technique opinions aside, what any actor does with their talent is up to them.

 

For Lea, what you said  (though I don't personally agree) could have happened even remaining in NY.  There are many seasoned BW performers who get mechanical/sloppy in their acting and their voice technique falters with time.  Hell even I can tell when they're "cheating" in their singing.

 

As to "fame", I laugh because some of the biggest fame whores are BW people,  seriously, but I don't think Patti Lupone and company wanting to be a star was necessarily bad for their motivation.  ;)

 

IF, as I read your post, you seem to imply to theater  as being a superior, nobler genre ,  I refer to Gary Merril's speech in "All About Eve".

Edited February 10, 2015 by caracas1914

[Myrna123]

Why shouldn't Lea have headed out to LA?  Kristen Chenoweth, Idina Menzel, Audra McDonald, Sutton Foster, Anna Kendrick, Megan Hilty, Laura Benanti, Cristin Milioti all branched out from Broadway into TV and film.  It's a lot easier these days to work in a lot of different mediums--and will probably get easier as small screen shows become less tied to network scheduling. 

 

I think Lea is just like the majority of her peers in Hollywood with whom she'll eventually compete for jobs - just as talented, just as motivated, just as driven.  I just don't think that when she changes into her jammies at night little feathered angel wings break free from their daily tether.

[caracas1914]

I just don't think that when she changes into her jammies at night little feathered angel wings break free from their daily tether.

 

 

Factually Wrong.   

 

See "Run Joey Run."  Well I grant you the wings aren't little.

 

Edited February 10, 2015 by caracas1914

[phoenixrising]

It's weird to me to speculate with any degree of certainty about something we have basically no information on.

 

I'll be cautiously optimistic about the new show.  Ryan Murphy's actually come up with some pretty compelling stuff over the years.  They almost all crash and burn eventually, but I really liked Popular, Nip/Tuck, and of course Glee in their early seasons.  So anthologies seem to be a good place for RIB.

I know it will eventually suck, because I've watched AHS, and seasons 3 and 4 were complete train wrecks. While them doing anthologies is better, they get bored too quickly and focus on the next great thing. This is a pattern of Ryan and Brad's, and I see no indication of that changing.

I don't think Lea will be bad, nor am I upset that she's working with them again. I just would've liked to see her do something different.

[Casual Viewing]

Lea got the fame, no question about that. But I think that the fame got to her as well. There is nothing wrong with wanting to be a famous star, but I think that Lea was a much better performer in the first two seasons of Glee than she is today. Her singing technique has gotten very sloppy compared to what it was when she first came onto the show and I think as an actor she was much more engaging earlier on.

I've got to stress again that while I didn't always like Rachel as a character that I liked Lea. Which is why so many of her project choices disappointed me so much. I wanted better from her.

I agree that her singing technique has suffered over the past few seasons. Perhaps much of that has to do with the schedule of Glee being crazy. For a time there was no real break between taping the show, then the Glee tour and so on. It could not of have been good for Lea's voice. Added to that are some of the song choices. Glee doesn't always fit the song to the right singer and vocally that can become a strain as well. There's also a danger of becoming too reliant on autotuning to correct bad habits that are starting.

I do hope she refocuses on proper technique in the future and that she stretches her acting abilities and grows as a performer. The actors who act because they love performing and want to challenge their skills are always going to be more interesting to me than those who are caught up in the fame game.

[caracas1914]

It's funny because with the exception of Season 4, Lea probably had the hardest work schedule as far as screentime and songs on Glee of any actor.

 

So to hear how she's artistically lazy when any outside projects had to be done in the limited window of non Glee work  time strikes me as conveniently easy hindsight. 

 

Some may have not liked her "choices" for her album, but IMO she worked really hard on it and just because it didn't pan out (in some opinions) as a huge success  doesn't mean she wasn't trying to put a quality effort out there.  Way too much projecting that Lea is lazy and a Diva simply because her products aren't to every one's taste.

[tom87]

I guess she is suppose to pass up all these opportunities just in case they don't work out the way some peole think they should.  

 

Wouldn't it be nice if eveyone could pick a winner every time?

Edited February 11, 2015 by tom87

[Higgs]

Lea's acting and singing are better than ever. The scooping is long gone, "Let It Go" was finally performed by someone who didn't sound like she had a cold, "Uninvited" was one of her greatest pop solos ever, and "Promises, Promises" was sensational (compare it to the incompetent performances of Dionne Warwick on YT) despite being one of the most technically difficult songs she has ever performed (in terms of breath and tone control). Her single-mom waitress cameo on Sons of Anarchy was on a level with the first diner appearance of the very great Ruth Wilson on "The Affair". Lea has always been and continues to be the Michael Jordan of Glee, i.e., she makes everyone around her better. Just compare the acting of her castmates in scenes with her and with anyone else.

Biulding a career involves synergy. These days, starring roles in movies or Broadway are made more likely with a claim to box-office potential, which means broad name-recognition, regardless of genre. Her first album needs to be seen in this light, especially when one considers that the "Wicked" movie (for which she is a rumored candidate for Elpheba) has been put off until the road show winds down, and that a major part of its audience is girl tweens. Lea had long ago said she wanted a girl power album, and has mentioned her second as leaning more to an Adele vibe. Lea Michele Enterprises is a horizontally integrated corporation. Don't cry for Lea, America.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Higgs

[tom87]

I like Lea but that is all too much.

 

I do think at times she has elevated some of the others and is one of the more consistant actors on glee though. 

 

But I personally do not think she is even rumored to be in the running for Elphaba.   Well at least not in any real sense. Her name is always thrown into the mix when they are doing a msucial since glee began.

 

We've seen two extremes here, she can practically do no wrong and she can practically do no right.

Edited February 11, 2015 by tom87

[caracas1914]

Maybe not "Wicked" but I do think she will be a legit contender for many musical projects down the line. If Ana Kendricks can carve out a nice musical niche in movies, Lea certainly has a similar potential.

[Casual Viewing]

Lea's acting and singing are better than ever. The scooping is long gone, "Let It Go" was finally performed by someone who didn't sound like she had a cold, "Uninvited" was one of her greatest pop solos ever, and "Promises, Promises" was sensational (compare it to the incompetent performances of Dionne Warwick on YT) despite being one of the most technically difficult songs she has ever performed (in terms of breath and tone control.

Her singing has been better this season and I think the longer break has been good for her voice. My problem with much of the music these days is the way studios overproduce the songs and voices. Lea has the pipes, they don't need to do that with her.

I also hope she doesn't get so tied down with another series that she has to let other opportunities go by.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Casual Viewing

[caracas1914]

I've never thought her acting suffered, it was most of the scripts the last few years that were a piece of shit. I shudder to think someone less talented mouthing the dialogue that Lea managed to elevate.

Edited February 11, 2015 by caracas1914

[Higgs]

I've never thought her acting suffered, it was most of the scripts the last few years that were a piece of shit. I shudder to think someone less talented mouthing the dialogue that Lea managed to elevate.

What the audience perceives as the quality of an acting performance is an unseparable combination of acting talent, direction, script, storyline, castmates, cinematography, and even costumes and lighting. On Glee, Lea has long been forced on occasion into an immature, higher-pitched, sing-song voice to enhance the little that is left of the comedy.

Her singing has been better this season and I think the longer break has been good for her voice. My problem with much of the music these days is the way studios overproduce the songs and voices. Lea has the pipes, they don't need to do that with her.

Abso-100%-lutely. For recent examples:

and from a live performance of a track from what I still consider to be her very underrated album,

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bQxNKxZtx-Y

But Glee has always played with her voice, usually to get a specific effect to make the cover more reminiscent of the original. Compare the chipmunked studio "Loser Like Me" with her performance on the tour, for example.

[dizzyizzy01]

To say someone is artistically lazy just because you don't like their choices is pretty arrogant and a pretty narrow-minded view I think.  Maybe not everyone is interested in health/fitness or not everyone likes pop music, but to write it off as lazy choices is offensive.  People do genuinely enjoy this stuff.  That's why there's a market for it.  There are countless things I don't enjoy personally, but I don't think it's an artistically lazy effort to pursue them.

 

These kids, and especially Lea, had truly insane schedules the first 3 seasons of Glee.  It's kind of unbelievable the hours they had.

 

Anyway, I think Lea is still consistently great in her scenes.  The fight with Santana in S5 in her dressing room was one of my favorite scenes ever. This season, despite how stupid the Sam/Rachel storyline is, I think Lea does a great job at playing it.

[spiritof76]

I did want to like Lea's album. I really tried. It just didn't do it for me. I enjoy her voice, but I just really didn't like the songs on her album. But I don't doubt that she worked very hard on it. Lea is a lot of things, but she doesn't strike me as lazy. Besides first albums can be hit or miss. Yes, she is famous and popular and is someone I'm sure speaks her mind, however, the label might have had a heavy hand in what songs were chosen, what they wanted to push. And since it is her first solo album, she might not have had quite as much control over her sound as someone like Beyonce or Katy Perry or even Adele. Which is why sometimes some artist prefer to go with small, more independent labels, because they tend to let the artist have more creative control. Obviously the trade off is that a smaller/independent label may not have the same structure in place for massive promotion, etc. I tend to think people think Lea has way more power than she probably actually has. 

[caracas1914]

the label might have had a heavy hand in what songs were chosen, what they wanted to push.

 

 

I'm going to say from the get go that to craft a successful pop album only *appears* easier than other genres but is actually quite difficult to pull off.  As much as I don't like Taylor Swift and Katey Perry, I think they are very hardworking and focused on their craft.

 

There is I imagine  a lot of pressure to go with the Label's "suggestions", thought I think Lea also has a pop affinity.  To me there is musical snobbery to imply that going for pop success is shallow or only fame induced.   There is a reason pop is probably the most popular musical genre today.

 

Besides first albums can be hit or miss.

 

 

The odds are against most artist having a slam dunk the first time  around.

Edited February 11, 2015 by caracas1914

[dizzyizzy01]

There is I imagine  a lot of pressure to go with the Label's "suggestions", thought I think Lea also has a pop affinity.

 

The odds are against most artist having a slam dunk the first time  around.

Yea...going by the artists she tweets, I do think she has a pretty big leaning towards pop music.  

 

I agree.  I think carving out a music career in general is very difficult.  Sometimes people get lucky, but it can be years and years of no success before something hits.

[ancslove]

There's a lot of luck involved in hitting it big in the music industry, and a good portion of that luck is getting the right song at the right moment.  I think doing a more pop album was an artistic stretch for Lea - everyone knows she can put out ballads and Broadway standards all day long, but a lot of people think that current pop is her weakness.  It was different from what she'd done previously, including the bulk of her songs on Glee.

 

I personally am not sure that Lea and "pop star" are the best fit, but if she wants to go for it, then good for her.  Doing one doesn't mean dropping all other music.

[Ceeg]

I do think it's kind of funny that criticism of Lea's album is along the lines of "why couldn't she have put out an Adele type album", as if it's easy to produce Adele-quality work. Adele writes her own music, and her success is pretty much singular for her type of music. I saw this same criticism of Naya too. As if Lea or Naya can just sit down in the studio and decide to write music like Adele, and then boom flash there it is. If it was that easy, there would be hundreds of Adele-like albums out there.

[tom87]

Apparently Lea should only do Grammy winning caliber songs, only write Pulitzer prize winning novels while working on her Oscar winning movie role. Then she can make her triumphant return to Bway to originate a Tony winning role.

Edited February 11, 2015 by tom87

[Myrna123]

And P.S.  where's Chris Colfer's Oscar if he's so great??

[camussie]

Her single-mom waitress cameo on Sons of Anarchy was on a level with the first diner appearance of the very great Ruth Wilson on "The Affair".

 

 

I like Lea but this makes me laugh.  Her appearance on SOA was blink and you miss it and I felt like Paris Barclay gushing so much about it beforehand set up expectations for it that were not met.  Not because she was bad in her barely there appearance, rather, because it was such a small role and wasn't the departure for Lea Paris claimed it was.   Rachel is a dramatic character but she has had several quieter moments throughout the years on Glee so Lea playing a more understated character for a few minutes of screen time was not all that new.

 

Lea has always been and continues to be the Michael Jordan of Glee, i.e., she makes everyone around her better. Just compare the acting of her castmates in scenes with her and with anyone else.

 

 

While Lea is talented I don't think everyone around her is bad unless they are in scenes with her. Matt, Cory, Chris, and Naya were all excellent scenes with Lea and without Lea.

 

As for Lea's album, my disappointment wasn't that it was pop but rather it was derivative bland pop.  None of the songs stood out to me as anything new and different.  This especially holds true of the first single released, "Cannonball"

 

As for her latest book, I'll admit the title made me cringe.  Her first book was biography mixed in with self-help and, while it wasn't revolutionary, it was a decent read.  This next one seems to be focused almost entirely self-help and I am just not into celebrity self-help books.  

 

As for celebrity itself, I think some actors are more into the celebrity of it all than others.  On Glee I would say that out of the "kids" Lea, Naya, and Darren seem to be more into celebrity than the rest of them.  That is neither good nor bad but just an observation. 

Edited February 12, 2015 by camussie

[tom87]

Paris Barclay makes Lea look subdued on twitter.

[spiritof76]

 

As for Lea's album my disappointment wasn't that it was pop but rather it was derivative bland pop.

Yeah, that was my issue with it as well. I like some pop, so her putting out a pop album wasn't an issue to me. I just wasn't feeling any of the songs. 

[tom87]

I liked a few of the songs tbh.  Just maybe to much about relationships, needed to mix it up some.

[dizzyizzy01]

Yeah, that was my issue with it as well. I like some pop, so her putting out a pop album wasn't an issue to me. I just wasn't feeling any of the songs. 

That's certainly a fair point.  It's just when people (not you) claim laziness is where I go, really?!? 

[Danielle87]

I was really looking forward to Lea's album, since she has one of the prettiest singing voices I've heard in a while. I was very disappointed. IMO, the album sounded too old for her. While I appreciate that she didn't go the Katy Perry route of trying to be a teenybopper at almost 30 years old, the album was joyless. Like, you know how you can tell when an artist had fun recording a song just by listening to it? I got none of that with Lea's album.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Danielle87

[Higgs]

I wrote that Lea made Glee castmates "better", not that she took them from bad to good.

A good actor can establish the inner nature of a character in 10 seconds, sometimes without a word. That's what Lea did on SOA, and it's all I meant. (I had never seen the show before pre-season reruns, and found the acting, plotting, and writing to be awful, an opinion that seemed to be shared on AV about the current state of the show by a very high percentage of long-time fans.)

I know nothing from pop. The only stuff I've listened to in a very long time are the originals of songs Lea covered. Now it's easy to throw out the charge of "derivative" in any art form, but I'd like someone to refer me to songs that could be considered prototypes for "Cue the Rain" or "Burn With You".

That the album was "too old for her" has to be the strangest comment I've ever heard about it. Is that from a career-building, marketing, or artistic perspective? Was "O Holy Night" or "The Rose" or "Promises, Promises" or ... also too old for her?

Edited February 12, 2015 by Higgs

[caracas1914]

but I'd like someone to refer me to songs that could be considered prototypes for "Cue the Rain" or "Burn With You". 

 

Those are pretty generic pop songs, mind you, I like them, but there's nothing particularly unique about them.

 

For the record, I enjoyed Lea's album.  I'm not going to pretend it was the greatest album ever made, but it was made by someone who can actually sing  and knows how to phrase.

[camussie]

I wrote that Lea made Glee castmates "better", not that she took them from bad to good.

 

 

You said to compare any scene they weren't in with Lea to ones they were in with Lea as if any scene they didn't have with Lea was simply not as good and I don't agree with that.  I think Cory, Chris, Naya, Matt, and others all had great scenes that weren't with Lea.  

 

A good actor can establish the inner nature of a character in 10 seconds, sometimes without a word. That's what Lea did on SOA, and it's all I meant.

 

 

I really didn't think she established much at all considering how forgettable the whole thing was.  She wasn't bad by any means but there was nothing that stood out in her brief scenes at all.  

 

Now it's easy to throw out the charge of "derivative" in any art form, but I'd like someone to refer me to songs that could be considered prototypes for "Cue the Rain" or "Burn With You".

 

 

They are generic pop songs which makes them derivative of a lot of other stuff out there.  "Cannonball" was one of the songs she really pushed and it was derivative of "Wrecking Ball" and "Firework"

Edited February 12, 2015 by camussie

[Myrna123]

I think one of the things with Lea Michele is that she is a very specific kind of performer--who appeals to a specific audience. I think a performer like that has better long range prospects because they won't be passed over for the next generic flavor of the month.

I recognize that she has a beautiful singing voice and she's a good enough actress but I've never bought any of her Glee songs, never listened to her album or sought out any of her other projects. I'm just not into her. I don't think she's evil or any more of a diva than any other talented performer. I may poke fun at her foray into insipid celebrity publishing and above and beyond the call of duty ass kissing of Ryan Murphy but after Glee's over I'm sure I'll never come across her again because whatever projects she does and whatever projects I follow won't intersect. We'll both be fine with that arrangement I'm sure.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Myrna123

[caracas1914]

Well if Lea appeals to a "specific " audience, then by extension all the rest of the Glee performers do also. This in the context that she is the one Glee peformer who sold consistently well throughout all the years, compared to everyone else. Solos, Duets , Group numbers, as well pop, Broadway , quasi country, and ballad genres. Of course now in Season 6 the bottom has completely fallen off of anyt decent ITUNE sales, even for Lea.

I think anyone who doesn't appeal to one personally can be rationalized as being "specific".

Her album actually didn't sell badly, probably between 125-150 K dometiscally, fairly remarkable considering

Glee was already in the downslide.

Edited February 12, 2015 by caracas1914

[Myrna123]

Well if Lea appeals to a "specific " audience, then by extension all the rest of the Glee performers do also. This in the context that she is the one Glee peformer who sold consistently well throughout all the years, compared to everyone else. Solos, Duets , Group numbers, as well pop, Broadway , quasi country, and ballad genres. Of course now in Season 6 the bottom has completely fallen off of anyt decent ITUNE sales, even for Lea.

I think anyone who doesn't appeal to one personally can be rationalized as being "specific".

Her album actually didn't sell badly, probably between 125-150 K dometiscally, fairly remarkable considering

Glee was already in the downslide.

But all the rest of the Glee performers aren't releasing generic pop albums so their specificity isn't the point. I'm not saying Lea Michele can't make money as a recording artist. The album Streisand released in 2014 went platinum so there's a market for the sound.

[Hana Chan]

Since I was the one who used the phrase "lazy" - let me clarify. I'm not saying that Lea isn't a hard worker and doesn't put in effort. I'm saying that she has gotten artistically lazy - in that she isn't pushing herself beyond what we already know what she is capable of as a performer. That is a subjective opinion on my part that I found her a more interesting performer before the Hollywood bug bit her and she got caught up with being Lea Michele, star of Glee instead of actor/singer Lea Michele.

 

Her album is very much a symptom of that attitude. There was nothing about it that stood out as being specifically a Lea Michele project as most of the songs were so generic that they could have been sung by anyone (the sole exception being the song that was dedicated to Cory). It's not that she can't do a good pop album. Pink is a pop singer and her songs are so distinct and unique to her as a singer. Lea's album sounded like songs that could have been taken from nearly any other female singer's playlist. If she wanted to release a pop album (and I'll argue to the end to the end of time that she's wasted in that genre), then couldn't she release a really outstanding album? Sales were, at best lackluster. Per Billboard as of Dec. 2014 it sold 102K units (http://www.billboard.com/articles/events/year-in-music-2014/6397785/albums-flopped-2014). And critically most critics had the same complaint - that the songs and production didn't match Lea's vocal chops.

 

Lea is capable of so much more. I know that Chris's independent film wasn't exactly a screaming success, but it was at least ambitious. I want to see Lea ambitious for more than just being famous (which seems like what she's focused on at this point to me). I want her to take on challenging roles that can really show what she's capable as an actor. I want to hear her do songs that really show her voice for the remarkable vocal instrument that it is. She doesn't need to stay in the shallow end of the pool.

[caracas1914]

I want her to take on challenging roles that can really show what she's capable as an actor.

Many actors want that , good and challenging roles are far and in between. Especially for female characters. Even the original inception of Rachel Berry, Lea Michele was very fortunate to get that role.

I know that Chris's independent film wasn't exactly a screaming success, but it was at least ambitious.

See, I think Chris and "Struck by Lightning" comparison doesn't work. Now whatever one thinks of the aesthetic merits of the that movie and role (and as a Chris fan I see some flaws in it) it's such an apples/oranges thing because Chris did something most actors can't do, he wrote his role. It's not as if outside forces offered a different challenging role to Chris.and he had the insight and accepted it.

Edited February 12, 2015 by caracas1914

[dizzyizzy01]

Since I was the one who used the phrase "lazy" - let me clarify. I'm not saying that Lea isn't a hard worker and doesn't put in effort. I'm saying that she has gotten artistically lazy - in that she isn't pushing herself beyond what we already know what she is capable of as a performer. That is a subjective opinion on my part that I found her a more interesting performer before the Hollywood bug bit her and she got caught up with being Lea Michele, star of Glee instead of actor/singer Lea Michele.

 

Her album is very much a symptom of that attitude. There was nothing about it that stood out as being specifically a Lea Michele project as most of the songs were so generic that they could have been sung by anyone (the sole exception being the song that was dedicated to Cory). It's not that she can't do a good pop album. Pink is a pop singer and her songs are so distinct and unique to her as a singer. Lea's album sounded like songs that could have been taken from nearly any other female singer's playlist. If she wanted to release a pop album (and I'll argue to the end to the end of time that she's wasted in that genre), then couldn't she release a really outstanding album? Sales were, at best lackluster. Per Billboard as of Dec. 2014 it sold 102K units (http://www.billboard.com/articles/events/year-in-music-2014/6397785/albums-flopped-2014). And critically most critics had the same complaint - that the songs and production didn't match Lea's vocal chops.

 

Lea is capable of so much more. I know that Chris's independent film wasn't exactly a screaming success, but it was at least ambitious. I want to see Lea ambitious for more than just being famous (which seems like what she's focused on at this point to me). I want her to take on challenging roles that can really show what she's capable as an actor. I want to hear her do songs that really show her voice for the remarkable vocal instrument that it is. She doesn't need to stay in the shallow end of the pool.

 

I still think it's an incredibly arrogant thing to say Lea is ambitious for the sake of just being famous.  How many actors accept roles that don't seem that impressive?  Look at some of the movies Barbra Streisand have been in or even Meryl Streep.  You seem to think it's incredibly easy just to pick some Oscar contending project.  

 

On the music front, you don't have to like pop music or her album, but to claim it's artistically lazy is condescending.  I have no qualms with someone saying her album wasn't very good or her songwriting needs work.  Pop music was a pretty significant departure for her.  I think it was a stretch for her, and maybe she didn't really succeed in it.  But I still think calling it artistically lazy is incredibly short-sighted.

 

Chris's movie was a very impressive achievement.  That he got it made was amazing.  It's commercial success was pretty terrible though, and I don't really think it was brilliant creative departure either, but yes it was an ambitious project and that he got it made was an quite a feat.

[camussie]

I still think it's an incredibly arrogant thing to say Lea is ambitious for the sake of just being famous.

 

 

While I don't agree that she is only ambitious for the sake of being famous I think it is a fair assessment to say she seems to be into celebrity more than many of her castmates.  I followed her for three years or twitter and instagram and finally unfollowed her this summer when it seemed like it all she posted was butt shot after butt shot.  Same with Naya. Both did the occasional one before but this summer it was all either seemed to do.  I can also say that it saddened me a little because I think both are immensely talented women who have more to offer than endless snaps of their admittedly great  backsides.  

[caracas1914]

It's commercial success was pretty terrible though,

 

If successful is defined as being in the black, it wasn't terrible by any means.

 

Actually TRIBECA decided to go pretty much direct to video for it, it never got a wide release, but unlike many  Indie films seemed like it made a tidy profit through that platform.    The movie was made on a shoe string budget so I think the expectations were never it was going to be this huge box office type of film.  Few are these days outside of main Studio backed movies.

 

I'm still amazed at the age of 21 Chris got a movie made where he was the producer, writer and starring in it. 

Edited February 12, 2015 by caracas1914

[Hana Chan]

I am hardly the only person who felt that Lea's album was not up to what she is capable of as a singer. Read the reviews (http://www.metacritic.com/music/louder/lea-michele). Most were, at best, mixed and all had the same complaints about poor material choice and a real lack of Lea's personality in many of the songs (what makes otherwise inane pop numbers spark). And I don't get where being critical of her artistic choices in song and acting jobs comes across as "condescending" when I've made it clear that I think highly of Lea's talent.

[caracas1914]

And I don't get where being critical of her artistic choices in song and acting jobs comes across as "condescending" when I've made it clear that I think highly of Lea's talent.

 

 

Maybe just me, but you seem to imply and connect her artistic "choices" with character flaws.

[Danielle87]

That the album was "too old for her" has to be the strangest comment I've ever heard about it. Is that from a career-building, marketing, or artistic perspective? Was "O Holy Night" or "The Rose" or "Promises, Promises" or ... also too old for her?

 

What I meant by that is the album wasn't fun. It was dull, joyless, most of it you can't even dance to even though technically it's a "pop" album. Kind of like elevator music with words. It really sounds like something that would be more appropriate for someone like Celine Dion to release.

 

 

While I don't agree that she is only ambitious for the sake of being famous I think it is a fair assessment to say she seems to be into celebrity more than many of her castmates.  I followed her for three years or twitter and instagram and finally unfollowed her this summer when it seemed like it all she posted was butt shot after butt shot.  Same with Naya. Both did the occasional one before but this summer it was all either seemed to do.  I can also say that it saddened me a little because I think both are immensely talented women who have more to offer than endless snaps of their admittedly great  backsides.

 

I always laugh at how out of all the castmates, Lea and Naya are like the only ones that get papped everyday, and all the pictures are as clear as day and are from close proximately. Who knows, maybe the paps are just more interested in them than everyone else, but it's pretty obvious to me that those two call them. I can't really blame them though cause no one in the Glee cast is a household name, so it's smart to do what you can to get noticed.

[Hana Chan]

Maybe just me, but you seem to imply and connect her artistic "choices" with character flaws.

 

I'm not exactly sitting here calling Lea a bad person because she put out a deathly dull pop album. I'm questioning the choices she's making and what her priorities are at this moment as a performer. I personally think she's getting some poor advice and isn't being steered in a direction that hurts her potential as a performer. I would like to see Lea challenged so that she can continue to grow and the people who are managing her now don't seem to doing that.

 

I'm thinking about a recent interview that the director of the Noel Coward film did where he said that he was looking forward to really pushing Chris as an actor and bringing the best work possible out of him. I would love to see someone do that for Lea. I don't think that Ryan Murphy is going to because he'll cater to her rather than challenge her. If that's what Lea wants out of her career, so be it. But I think that she's selling herself very short.

[tom87]

You act like she is making what you decided are bad choice on purpose or that she has some crystal ball knowing the album would not resonate with a mass audience..  May be she actually likes the songs.   May be she thinks this new role is new and challenging.

 

Maybe she has been auditing and in talks for projects but nothing good has come of it.  Maybe she feels she should take advantage of the opportunities she has instead of holding out hope for the elusive role that many never come.

 

For all we know  the Noel Coward movie could be a complete bust will that mean it wasn't worth doing? 

Edited February 12, 2015 by tom87

[caracas1914]

I'm not exactly sitting here calling Lea a bad person because she put out a deathly dull pop album. I'm questioning the choices she's making and what her priorities are at this moment as a performer. I personally think she's getting some poor advice and isn't being steered in a direction that hurts her potential as a performer. I would like to see Lea challenged so that she can continue to grow and the people who are managing her now don't seem to doing that.

 

See here is the thing:   Columbia is major corporate label with alot of music people with oodles of experience on their resumes and yet according to you everyone involved created a "deathly dull pop album". 

 

So maybe Lea doesn't possess instinctive commercial acumen as to successful  pop music, but this perceived fail of her album falls on the shoulders of  a lot of people , not just her.  So it's hard for me to think of this album is sign of her being "lazy artistically".  Many recording artists, (and actors and directors and writers) have gone into projects with the best of intentions and with the lofty pursuit of creating something interesting, heartfelt, personal, and at the same time commercial and fallen short (in the eyes of some). 

 

I'm thinking about a recent interview that the director of the Noel Coward film did where he said that he was looking forward to really pushing Chris as an actor

 

 

Again the comparisons with Chris.  The Noel movie people asked and requested Chris to do that film, it's wonderful that he has this opportunity , but I would imagine the Columbia label people asked and requested Lea to make a pop album.  Some projects work better than others.  Nobody has a crystal ball.

 

As to accepting another series offer from Ryan Murphy, whose to say it won't turn out to be a smart and successful move?   Jessica Lange certainly wasn't harmed  artistically by accepting a role on AHS by Ryan.

Edited February 12, 2015 by caracas1914