S07.E21: Reunion (Part II)

[WireWrap]

Was the gist of the conversation that John had been behaving perfectly appropriate given the situation or that he had done something wrong?

I think clearly Kristen was trying to say that John did something wrong.

Did you hear her say that John was a pig, that he was bad or anything nasty about him? She answered Ramona's question about how she, Kristen, felt when John grabbed her and pulled her tighter into him and she said that it surprised her and made her uncomfortable and that is why she walked away from him and Dorinda heard the last part of that and Kristen told her the truth of how she felt instead of playing games like Ramona was doing. Kristen knew full well not to trust that Ramona would not run directly to Dorinda and twist what she said, so she told the truth.

[AnnA]

I've been extremely critical of what I perceived to be LuAnn's exaggerated and partially manufactured indignation over Carole's relationship with Adam. I haven't changed my mind about that but for some reason it doesn't make me hate or

even dislike her. In a way, I feel sorry for her because she seemed so desperate to contribute the drama Bravo covets. Now that she changed her story (about getting along with Carole most of the season) I'm almost ready to give it up. That depends upon whether or not she flip-flops again and actually does "lunge" at Carole during the Reunion.

Onto other observations.....

A few posters have pointed out that Bethenny has something to say about everything and I agree. She does. You all know that I like Bethenny so I hope my POV doesn't seem biased to you. I'm sure it will to some but during every HW Reunion there is always one HW who has more to say than the others and assumes the "know-it-all" role. We've seen it happen with Caroline, Teresa, Vicki, Jill, LisaV, LisaR and even LuAnn last season. I don't think anyone would say that it's not a good fit for Bethenny. After all she is a self-proclaimed know-it-all. Considering all that happened this season and the eight women we have on RHONY, who else should do it? The only other HW I think capable of it is Heather and this season just wasn't her turn. I can't imagine Ramona, Sonja, Carole or Kristen in that role and God forbid it was Dorinda. LuAnn could do it but not after her Part I performance with her inconsistent reasoning and needing to fan herself.

I'm looking forward to moving on from the Carole/ LuAnn nonsense and focusing on Dorinda.

[MissMel]

Is there anyone who believes that Dorinda's daughter doesn't watch the show? I don't get when people say things like this. By Dorinda's account, she and her daughter are very close. This has to have been a huge deal in Dorinda's life - being on a Reality Show, and your daughter isn't going to watch you? Makes zero sense to me.

My guess is she only watched the scenes SHE was in. Lol

[shoegal]

Did you hear her say that John was a pig, that he was bad or anything nasty about him? She answered Ramona's question about how she, Kristen, felt when John grabbed her and pulled her tighter into him and she said that it surprised her and made her uncomfortable and that is why she walked away from him and Dorinda heard the last part of that and Kristen told her the truth of how she felt instead of playing games like Ramona was doing. Kristen knew full well not to trust that Ramona would not run directly to Dorinda and twist what she said, so she told the truth.

Kristen brought up the incident to Ramona as an example of John's touchy-feely, flirty, inappropriate behavior. She was not just answering a question from Ramona. I think the point can be best demonstrated by this sentiment: "Dorinda needs to take John to task, not Kristen". That puts the entire onus on John, and implies that John did something wrong. That is what Dorinda is pushing back against.

Edited August 24, 2015 by shoegal

[AnnA]

My guess is she only watched the scenes SHE was in. Lol

 

I wonder if she decided to tame those eyebrows when she did.

[NewDigs]

I've been extremely critical of what I perceived to be LuAnn's exaggerated and partially manufactured indignation over Carole's relationship with Adam. I haven't changed my mind about that but for some reason it doesn't make me hate or

even dislike her. In a way, I feel sorry for her because she seemed so desperate to contribute the drama Bravo covets. Now that she changed her story (about getting along with Carole most of the season) I'm almost ready to give it up. That depends upon whether or not she flip-flops again and actually does "lunge" at Carole during the Reunion.

Onto other observations.....

A few posters have pointed out that Bethenny has something to say about everything and I agree. She does. You all know that I like Bethenny so I hope my POV doesn't seem biased to you. I'm sure it will to some but during every HW Reunion there is always one HW who has more to say than the others and assumes the "know-it-all" role. We've seen it happen with Caroline, Teresa, Vicki, Jill, LisaV, LisaR and even LuAnn last season. I don't think anyone would say that it's not a good fit for Bethenny. After all she is a self-proclaimed know-it-all. Considering all that happened this season and the eight women we have on RHONY, who else should do it? The only other HW I think capable of it is Heather and this season just wasn't her turn. I can't imagine Ramona, Sonja, Carole or Kristen in that role and God forbid it was Dorinda. LuAnn could do it but not after her Part I performance with her inconsistent reasoning and needing to fan herself.

I'm looking forward to moving on from the Carole/ LuAnn nonsense and focusing on Dorinda.

Bolding mine.

My problem with Betthhenny is that she seemed to be the know-it-all the entire season. The Queen Bee.

There didn't seem to be enough to balance against her constant and frequently venomous verbal barrage.

I started this season as a Bethy fan. She was why I started watching again. Oh well.

[motorcitymom65]

Kristen was behind John with her crotch against his butt and her tits smashed into his back, which she was fine with. John says "let's switch" and turn to put his crotch against her and his hands *on her hips* (upper pelvic region? Seriously?). Kristen certainly has a right to feel there is behavior that she's comfortable with and behavior she's not comfortable with, but don't make it John's fault because he didn't know the line. I think that was what Dorinda was saying (in the Berkshires at least).

It sounds to me like Dorinda was mad about the behavior, not just about it being brought up in her home. She said something about Kristen being married and a mother, and why was it necessary for her to act that way at her cocktail party (she gives John an excuse because he is "single"). She is clearly upset about the way that John behaves, but doesn't want anyone talking about it. Interesting that in this clip, she does put blame on Ramona as well as on Kristen. I wonder if she will do that at all during the reunion, or if it will all be Kristen's fault. 

 

http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/season-6/videos/unseen-footage-of-rhonys-biggest-fights?clip=2870223

[shoegal]

It sounds to me like Dorinda was mad about the behavior, not just about it being brought up in her home. She said something about Kristen being married and a mother, and why was it necessary for her to act that way at her cocktail party (she gives John an excuse because he is "single"). She is clearly upset about the way that John behaves, but doesn't want anyone talking about it. Interesting that in this clip, she does put blame on Ramona as well as on Kristen. I wonder if she will do that at all during the reunion, or if it will all be Kristen's fault.

http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/season-6/videos/unseen-footage-of-rhonys-biggest-fights?clip=2870223

I don't know what Dorinda said to John, for all I know she addressed it with him as well (come on Bravo, Lost Footage!!!!) but that doesn't mean she shouldn't also address it with Kristen, especially since Kristen brought it up to her, in her home, on camera, when John was also coming for the weekend. I agree with Dorinda, Kristen played coquettish and then tried to pin it all on John. Edited August 24, 2015 by shoegal

[Bronzedog]

I personally think John can do better. He seems like a nice enough guy. It seems like originally Dorinda enjoyed his company. I don't think she's attracted to him though. She has been real quick to put the brakes on by whipping out the Hannah is still grieving her step father's death. Years ago. And, we're going to ignore how long it's taking Hannah to pull herself together as long as means that John can't spend the night, Dorinda can't live with John, John can't be in the room with Hannah and on and on. To me, Dorinda uses the "Hannah is fragile". Card anytime she wants to hold John at arms length.

[Mozelle]

Well, there is a huge difference between trying to have sex and sexual assault. I don't see how one can be replaced with the other.

My point is that Kristen never told John she was uncomfortable with the switch (she behind him, him behind her) yet she acted as if he was doing something wrong. I think Dorinda was trying to say that she was embarrassed because Kristen was trying to make it seem like John was behaving inappropriately or doing something wrong, because Kristen decided a line had been crossed that was arbitrary and unknown to John. I understand that.

 

Here's how: We're talking about a woman's comfort level. Sexual assault is a clear crime, which is why I ended up changing the text. What I was going for in the original scenario was the idea that Jane can enjoy making out with Jake, be into Jake, but then see it going further than what she's comfortable with. Jane starts to feel uncomfortable and makes the decision to stop, leave, and head home. And the response from some would be, "But, Jane, why are you mad/surprised that Jake wanted to have sex?" as though, by virtue of the fact that she was enjoying herself at some point, she had relinquished any right to feel uncomfortable with how quickly the dynamics were shifting simply because she was into Jake in the beginning. 

 

Regarding Kristen, she didn't verbalize it. She wiggled out of his hands and ran away. 

[shoegal]

Here's how: We're talking about a woman's comfort level. Sexual assault is a clear crime, which is why I ended up changing the text. What I was going for in the original scenario was the idea that Jane can enjoy making out with Jake, be into Jake, but then see it going further than what she's comfortable with. Jane starts to feel uncomfortable and makes the decision to stop, leave, and head home. And the response from some would be, "But, Jane, why are you mad/surprised that Jake wanted to have sex?" as though, by virtue of the fact that she was enjoying herself at some point, she had relinquished any right to feel uncomfortable with how quickly the dynamics were shifting simply because she was into Jake in the beginning. 

 

Regarding Kristen, she didn't verbalize it. She wiggled out of his hands and ran away.

If Jane starts to feel uncomfortable but doesn't verbalized this to Jake, how is Jake supposed to know what Jane is comfortable with? "Wanting" to have sex and having sex *against someone's expressed wishes/commands* are two totally separate worlds. If Jake doesn't stop when asked to stop, that's something else entirely. That's not about comfort level.

Regarding Kristen, she giggled, swayed her hips and *then* broke free....if John had chased her or otherwise continued after she disengaged, then it would be a different issue. He didn't. He stopped when she stopped.

[AnnA]

Bolding mine.

My problem with Betthhenny is that she seemed to be the know-it-all the entire season. The Queen Bee.

There didn't seem to be enough to balance against her constant and frequently venomous verbal barrage.

I started this season as a Bethy fan. She was why I started watching again. Oh well.

 

Bethenny is the reason I started watching again too.

 

I agree with you that she was the know-it-all this season but it's a good fit for her. Most of the time I enjoy her quick wit.  There were a few comments in her THs that I could have done without but most of the time she makes me laugh.  If she got more screentime than the others, it's probably because of the "she's back" theme.  I don't have a problem with that.  I also think she does a much better job of snarking than the other HWs.   Her imitations of Sonja with the coconut and Drunken Dorinda were priceless.

 

I don't know what Dorinda said to John, for all I know she addressed it with him as well (come on Bravo, Lost Footage!!!!) but that doesn't mean she shouldn't also address it with Kristen, especially since Kristen brought it up to her, in her home, on camera, when John was also coming for the weekend. I agree with Dorinda, Kristen played coquettish and then tried to pin it all on John.

 

Yes, Kristen did tell Dorinda about John at her house in the Berkshires but we have to remember that it was because Ramona brought it up.  When Dorinda walked into the room during their conversation, Kristen couldn't have known how much Dorinda heard  and she's not quick enough to pass the blame back to Ramona (where it belonged).

[shoegal]

Ramona brought up the conversation with LuAnn and the dinner at the caviar place, Kristen brought up the sandwich making night with John.

I give props to Kristen that she admitted to Dorinda what she was talking about.

Edited August 24, 2015 by shoegal

[ryebread]

All this sandwich making talk is making me hungry.

[shoegal]

All this sandwich making talk is making me hungry.

I just had a terrible image of Armenian sausage on two pieces of thin white bread.

[ryebread]

I just had a terrible image of Armenian sausage on two pieces of thin white bread.

 

Heh!

[WireWrap]

Was the gist of the conversation that John had been behaving perfectly appropriate given the situation or that he had done something wrong?

I think clearly Kristen was trying to say that John did something wrong.

Kristen said to Dorinda that she was fine at first then began to feel "uncomfortable" and "walked away". She did not say that he did anything "wrong" but that SHE stared to feel uncomfortable and that is fine. She tried to not blame anyone at first but then she did add that he got "grabby/touchy feely", which he did and that it made HER uncomfortable. Had she wanted to make it sound like he was in the wrong she would have said "had he not grabbed me and pulled me into him without my OK, I would have been fine".

 

Kristen brought up the incident to Ramona as an example of John's touchy-feely, flirty, inappropriate behavior. She was not just answering a question from Ramona. I think the point can be best demonstrated by this sentiment: "Dorinda needs to take John to task, not Kristen". That puts the entire onus on John, and implies that John did something wrong. That is what Dorinda is pushing back against.

No, Ramona brought up John, not Kristen and Ramona asked her about what happened at Dorinda's party at the bar. My comment about taking John to task about this is because, IMO, she was wrong to take Kristen to task for it at all. Kristen owes Dorinda nothing, John is the one in the relationship with Dorinda, not Kristen.

[NewDigs]

I just had a terrible image of Armenian sausage on two pieces of thin white bread.

Was it a big rich Armenian sausage?

[shoegal]

Kristen said to Dorinda that she was fine at first then began to feel "uncomfortable" and "walked away". She did not say that he did anything "wrong" but that SHE stared to feel uncomfortable and that is fine. She tried to not blame anyone at first but then she did add that he got "grabby/touchy feely", which he did and that it made HER uncomfortable. Had she wanted to make it sound like he was in the wrong she would have said "had he not grabbed me and pulled me into him without my OK, I would have been fine".

No, Ramona brought up John, not Kristen and Ramona asked her about what happened at Dorinda's party at the bar. My comment about taking John to task about this is because, IMO, she was wrong to take Kristen to task for it at all. Kristen owes Dorinda nothing, John is the one in the relationship with Dorinda, not Kristen.

Did Kristen make sure it was OK with John before she saddled up behind him and pressed her crotch into his ass and her tits against his back? Again, saying that John was grabbing in her "without (her) OK" means that John did something wrong. If Kristen was uncomfortable, fine, then disengage as she did, but stop bringing up John's behavior as if *his* behavior was wrong.

As far as the conversation, Ramona did bring up John, but she did not bring up that night or ask Kristen anything until Kristen brought it up. Ramona was talking about being pissed at LuAnn for bringing up the conversation about John to Dorinda at the caviar dinner. Kristen says "I mean, I have to say, remember when she had us all for drinks by the UN? That Friday night party... (makes mortified face)...it was a little uh...a little uh....flirty". Then Ramona started questioning Kristen and whether she was comfortable.

As far as Kristen owing Dorinda nothing, she is in a relationship with Dorinda as well. They are coworkers, and Kristen knows that Dorinda and John are together. Kristen can rub her tits and ass on him, and not a peep from Dorinda? Nope, not buying it.

Edited August 24, 2015 by shoegal

[Bossa Nova]

nevermind.

 

I got nuthin.

Edited August 24, 2015 by Bossa Nova

[zoeysmom]

It sounds to me like Dorinda was mad about the behavior, not just about it being brought up in her home. She said something about Kristen being married and a mother, and why was it necessary for her to act that way at her cocktail party (she gives John an excuse because he is "single"). She is clearly upset about the way that John behaves, but doesn't want anyone talking about it. Interesting that in this clip, she does put blame on Ramona as well as on Kristen. I wonder if she will do that at all during the reunion, or if it will all be Kristen's fault. 

 

http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/season-6/videos/unseen-footage-of-rhonys-biggest-fights?clip=2870223

From the clip it seems she was none too pleased with Ramona.  Ramona the ever phony wanting to crawl under the couch-why do these women talk about their hostess' boyfriend in the hostess' living room?  They are her guests and they are stabbing her in the back and then taking advantage of her hospitality.   Kristen by virtue of her height and extension, appears to be all over John.  She walked over but her arm around him when he was with Sonja and rubbed her breasts up against him.  Maybe that is what Dorinda didn't appreciate.  Initially when John has her hands on her hips, just below her waist, her arms are making dance moves.    It is her confessional comments that make things seem worse than they were.   Maybe we will find out how she felt about Sonja.

[Mozelle]

If Jane starts to feel uncomfortable but doesn't verbalized this to Jake, how is Jake supposed to know what Jane is comfortable with? "Wanting" to have sex and having sex *against someone's expressed wishes/commands* are two totally separate worlds. If Jake doesn't stop when asked to stop, that's something else entirely. That's not about comfort level.

Regarding Kristen, she giggled, swayed her hips and *then* broke free....if John had chased her or otherwise continued after she disengaged, then it would be a different issue. He didn't. He stopped when she stopped.

 

Which is exactly why I changed it. Like, what?

[shoegal]

Which is exactly why I changed it. Like, what?

What, indeed. Now I'm confused.

[breezy424]

Here's the clip of them 'dancing' (down near the end of the blog).  Interesting it seemed that Dorinda was pissed off at John after that.  I don't think Kris made that big a deal about it in the Berkshires.  I do think Dorinda went overboard with Kris because she laid no blame on John during the conversation between her, Ro and Kris.  Especially when she gave John permission because he's single.  It's just another example of when Dorinda goes to her place of anger, she looses rationality.

 

http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/season-7/blogs/kristen-taekman/kristen-johns-hands-got-a-little

[LotusFlower]

Here's how: We're talking about a woman's comfort level. Sexual assault is a clear crime, which is why I ended up changing the text. What I was going for in the original scenario was the idea that Jane can enjoy making out with Jake, be into Jake, but then see it going further than what she's comfortable with. Jane starts to feel uncomfortable and makes the decision to stop, leave, and head home. And the response from some would be, "But, Jane, why are you mad/surprised that Jake wanted to have sex?" as though, by virtue of the fact that she was enjoying herself at some point, she had relinquished any right to feel uncomfortable with how quickly the dynamics were shifting simply because she was into Jake in the beginning.

Of course. And this dynamic applies to another disturbing element of Dorinda's "topless photo" shame game - the backwards-thinking message she's giving to her daughter, as well as all men. What if Hannah posted some picture or video of herself that's sexy or provocative (and in this day and age of Instagram and YouTube, it's fairly common), and then came home one day and told her mom that a guy touched her inappropriately, and it made her uncomfortable. Using Dorinda's reasoning, she'd have to tell her daughter that the pictures posted of her online indicate she's no fragile flower, so stop boo-hooing.

How about a real example: When LuAnn performed "Girl Code" on WWHL, her daughter Victoria sang back-up, and she was dressed like a Moulin Rouge hooker. Presenting herself in a certain way on national tv for all the world to see. Does this mean that from this point on, all men have the right to do whatever they want to her (within legal bounds), even if it makes her uncomfortable? That was Dorinda's message.

It reminds me of that idiot Elizabeth Hasselback's POV when she said she couldn't understand Erin Andrews getting so upset by a peeping Tom posting a video of her naked in her hotel room after wearing skimpy costumes on Dancing with the Stars.

[Bronzedog]

While you all are trying to work out your difference of opinion re Dorinda and Kristen , I now want a Reuben sandwich. Thanks, a lot.

[shoegal]

Here's the clip of them 'dancing' (down near the end of the blog). Interesting it seemed that Dorinda was pissed off at John after that. I don't think Kris made that big a deal about it in the Berkshires. I do think Dorinda went overboard with Kris because she laid no blame on John during the conversation between her, Ro and Kris. Especially when she gave John permission because he's single. It's just another example of when Dorinda goes to her place of anger, she looses rationality.

http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/season-7/blogs/kristen-taekman/kristen-johns-hands-got-a-little

I am willing to bet that Dorinda gave John a little what for after that evening, but I don't think she needs to talk about it when addressing Kristen and her behavior. Kristen was acting as if John's behavior needed to be addressed, if she wasn't making a big deal about it she should have told the truth, which was 'we were all flirty and grabby, it was all pretty harmless and I stopped when I was no longer comfortable and John respected that...and I'm sorry for playing grab ass with your boyfriend.' Edited August 24, 2015 by shoegal

[Mozelle]

What, indeed. Now I'm confused.

 

Girl, I dunno. You kept bringing up how sexual assault is not about comfort level (or that they're two different things) as though I had implied or outright stated it was. All I was saying was that I initially switched from using sexual assault as an example precisely because sexual assault isn't analogous to what happened with Kristen and John.* Sexual assault is a crime. A woman feeling uncomfortable about a quick shift in dynamics of something she was enjoying in the beginning is why I ultimately used the example I did. I think the example I used is analogous in spirit to what happened on the show.  

 

*I do, however, think that Dorinda is flat out in the wrong for going so hard at Kristen, to the point where she 1) says that Kristen's actions embarrassed Dorinda and 2) as a way of trying to silence Kristen, will apparently bring up in the second part of the reunion some topless/nude modeling that Kristen did years ago. That to me feels too blame-y and shame-y. It's a weird thing to do, all, "Why were upset over John's hand on your hips?! You've had your boobs photographed!" Like, Dorinda, hon, one has nothing to do with the other.

[shoegal]

Girl, I dunno. You kept bringing up how sexual assault is not about comfort level (or that they're two different things) as though I had implied or outright stated it was. All I was saying was that I initially switched from using sexual assault as an example precisely because sexual assault isn't analogous to what happened with Kristen and John.* Sexual assault is a crime. A woman feeling uncomfortable about a quick shift in dynamics of something she was enjoying in the beginning is why I ultimately used the example I did. I think the example I used is analogous in spirit to what happened on the show.  

 

*I do, however, think that Dorinda is flat out in the wrong for going so hard at Kristen, to the point where she 1) says that Kristen's actions embarrassed Dorinda and 2) as a way of trying to silence Kristen, will apparently bring up in the second part of the reunion some topless/nude modeling that Kristen did years ago. That to me feels too blame-y and shame-y. It's a weird thing to do, all, "Why were upset over John's hand on your hips?! You've had your boobs photographed!" Like, Dorinda, hon, one has nothing to do with the other.

Which is why I was confused as to why you added that originally you had written a sexual assault scenario and maybe you should have kept that scenario. I was responding to what you were bringing up. I agree that sexual assault is in no way comparable to what happened with Kristen and John.

I also agree that Dorinda is wrong for bringing up the topless photos and using them to shame Kristen. This also has nothing to do what happened with Kristen and John.

[Diane Mars]

No, Dorinda, having your boobs pictured has never and ever meant that it was like you are "an open bar" ! This is SO offensive !

[zoeysmom]

What I took away from Dorinda's comments is first off she was ticked at Ramona and Kristen for talking about John. She clearly stated she had just recently had the conversation with Ramona.  Apparently, Dorinda did not like Kristen approaching her boyfriend and touching him and dancing.  This is her right to feel this way couple that with her walking in on yet another discussion about John and this one  in her living room. She was ticked and let Kristen have it.

 

I think Dorinda was pointing out to Kristen she wasn't quite the innocent she was pretending to be.  Compared to the rest this year and Carole talking about Luann's sex life and who, and where she had allegedly had sex, this topless modeling is tame.  Kristen has gone on about Brandi getting the rough edit and now here she is doing to Luann and Dorinda's boyfriend exactly what Brandi accuses her detractors of doing.  Kristen just has a hard time picking a lane.

[Katesus7]

I missed Kristen pretending to be an innocent.  I just thought she gave her honest opinion about her own feelings about John's dancing with her.  Why that somehow has anything whatsoever to do with her modeling career is beyond me.

[WireWrap]

Did Kristen make sure it was OK with John before she saddled up behind him and pressed her crotch into his ass and her tits against his back? Again, saying that John was grabbing in her "without (her) OK" means that John did something wrong. If Kristen was uncomfortable, fine, then disengage as she did, but stop bringing up John's behavior as if *his* behavior was wrong.

As far as the conversation, Ramona did bring up John, but she did not bring up that night or ask Kristen anything until Kristen brought it up. Ramona was talking about being pissed at LuAnn for bringing up the conversation about John to Dorinda at the caviar dinner. Kristen says "I mean, I have to say, remember when she had us all for drinks by the UN? That Friday night party... (makes mortified face)...it was a little uh...a little uh....flirty". Then Ramona started questioning Kristen and whether she was comfortable.

As far as Kristen owing Dorinda nothing, she is in a relationship with Dorinda as well. They are coworkers, and Kristen knows that Dorinda and John are together. Kristen can rub her tits and ass on him, and not a peep from Dorinda? Nope, not buying it.

She did not bring up his behavior. She was asked a question by a producer about it, hence the TH, then she was asked by Ramona, hence the answer and finally she was asked by Dorinda and told the truth, or at least tried to but Dorinda went off on her before she could say much at all. Dorinda refused to allow Kristen to finish a sentence at her house/dinner and again in the upcoming reunion part 2.

 

As for Kristen/Dorinda "relationship", they had just met and neither owned the other anything. Dorinda was disrespectful of Kristen and how she felt even though Kristen did not say 1 word against John or Dorinda.  

 

We are going nowhere with this conversation, you see it 1 way and I see it another. Neither of us are going to change our minds so it is time to move on from this. Agree to disagree.

Edited August 24, 2015 by WireWrap

[LotusFlower]

Even a topless dancer at a strip club has the right to tell a guy to back that shit up if she doesn't like to be touched. This rule doesn't just apply to "innocents." And btw, who is considered innocent? Nuns? That term is offensive to me.

[motorcitymom65]

What I took away from Dorinda's comments is first off she was ticked at Ramona and Kristen for talking about John. She clearly stated she had just recently had the conversation with Ramona. Apparently, Dorinda did not like Kristen approaching her boyfriend and touching him and dancing. This is her right to feel this way couple that with her walking in on yet another discussion about John and this one in her living room. She was ticked and let Kristen have it.

I think Dorinda was pointing out to Kristen she wasn't quite the innocent she was pretending to be. Compared to the rest this year and Carole talking about Luann's sex life and who, and where she had allegedly had sex, this topless modeling is tame. Kristen has gone on about Brandi getting the rough edit and now here she is doing to Luann and Dorinda's boyfriend exactly what Brandi accuses her detractors of doing. Kristen just has a hard time picking a lane.

I think you are right, and that is exactly what Dorinda was saying. That is why it doesn't quite sit right. It is entirely too close to " why were you walking there at that time time of night, wearing that low cut dress, etc". It sounds like you are that kind of a girl, so whatever happens to you is of your own making.

Honestly, I think that Dorinda is making way too much of it all. Kristen probably shouldn't have said anything, but I don't think she knew what part of the conversation Dorinda had heard. She looked like she was trying to repeat the gist of the conversation she had had with Ramona. I didn't think she was making a huge deal out of it. She wasn't acting like a total innocent, just saying that John can be a bit handsy. I think that everyone would agree with that, including Dorinda. She admitted that she was having fun when they were dancing until she she got a little bit uncomfortable. If she had spent the rest of the season talking about what a horrible person John was based on this incident, I would agree that Dorinda could and should get her back up. I get so tired of women letting their man off for bad behavior, and instead turning to other women. At this time, she didn't know Kristen well at all, nor did she know Sonja, who was behaving in a manner that would be at least as offensive as Kristen. Why would she be more upset about Kristen putting her hands on her man and dancing with him than she would be her man? If that kind of thing embarrasses her, or makes her uncomfortable, she needs to find a man who doesn't do that kind of thing.

Edited August 24, 2015 by motorcitymom65

[AnnA]

I honestly don't remember how the Sonja/John/Kristen dancing sandwich originated so I can't comment on whether or not Kristen approached and touched John before the dance.  My guess is that Sonja and John were already acting out and Kristen playfully joined in.  They were all probably a little tipsy.   I'm not claiming that Kristen is totally innocent.  I would never do that with a friend or co-worker's significant other  but I don't believe she's as guilty as Sonja and John in the sandwich scenario either.   She obviously became uncomfortable at some point (tipsy or not) and broke away.  I think she was OK with it when she was behind John but who knows what kind of physical response John may have to grinding up against Kristen's ass.

 

Dorinda has a right to be pissed at all of them and in this order:  John - Sonja - Kristen with Kristen being the least culpable.  We didn't get to see Dorinda's demeanor or hear the words she spoke to Sonja about it but I'd bet it wasn't nearly as offensive as the manner Dorinda spoke to and about Kristen.   Dorinda's imitation of things Kristen did NOT say was ridiculous and totally over the top.

 

I can't find any reason to compare Dorinda's "topless modeling" comment to Carole's retorts to LuAnn's Twitter War and THs.   Kristen did not announce her topless modelling experience the way LuAnn proudly broadcast her sexual escapades while expressing moral indignation over Carole's relationship with Adam. 

Edited August 25, 2015 by AnnA

[LotusFlower]

I think the bottom line is this: Dorinda is embarrassed (and probably a little pissed) that her boyfriend got a little too handsy with the women, but instead of admitting this, she deflects the criticism on to the other players in the scene. So I don't agree with those that say she's lacking in self-awareness - I think she sees John, and saw that scene, exactly for what it was, and is acting out due to embarrassment, and perhaps some loyalty to John. She did the exact same thing when she drunkedly and embarrassingly slurred her words and lashed out at Heather over not walking into the restaurant together, or the dumb fight over the word fuck. To this day, she hasn't acknowledged how stupid she was, she only said: "Heather made me angry, and when I get angry, I fight back." Ok, Dorinda. So the five dirty martinis had nothing to do with it.

[shoegal]

She did not bring up his behavior. She was asked a question by a producer about it, hence the TH, then she was asked by Ramona, hence the answer and finally she was asked by Dorinda and told the truth, or at least tried to but Dorinda went off on her before she could say much at all. Dorinda refused to allow Kristen to finish a sentence at her house/dinner and again in the upcoming reunion part 2.

Kristen absolutely brought it up to Ramona in the Berkshires in Dorinda's living room, I just watched the scene and quoted it to you. Ramona did not ask her about it until Kristen brought it up. Regardless of whether a producer asked her about it or not, Kristen could have set the record straight easily by stating that John did nothing wrong. Instead, she repeatedly harps on being uncomfortable and that John was touchy-feely. I think that's shitty. Edited August 24, 2015 by shoegal

[AnnA]

Ok, Dorinda. So the five dirty martinis had nothing to do with it.

 

Are those the same five dirty martinis that she denied having during the Reunion?

 

Or are they the five dirty martinis she admitted to having when she told Andy on WWHL that they started drinking at 10 AM that morning?

[WireWrap]

Kristen absolutely brought it up to Ramona in the Berkshires in Dorinda's living room, I just watched the scene and quoted it to you. Ramona did not ask her about it until Kristen brought it up. Regardless of whether a producer asked her about it or not, Kristen could have set the record straight easily by stating that John did nothing wrong. Instead, she repeatedly harps on being uncomfortable and that John was touch-feely. I think that's shitty.

Who brought up John first, Ramona or Kristen? It was Ramona! Kristen just agreed with Ramona that John was "handsy" and left it at that until Ramona ASKED her questions. The END! LOL

[LotusFlower]

Are those the same five dirty martinis that she denied having during the Reunion?

 

Or are they the five dirty martinis she admitted to having when she told Andy on WWHL that they started drinking at 10 AM that morning?

Yup. I think the spigot is constantly pouring. Hey listen - if that's your thing, enjoy. Unless you get behind a wheel, I really don't care. But own it! How can you watch yourself slurring your words so badly that they had to provide captions, and not acknowledge that your drinking played a part in some of the foolishness?

[shoegal]

Who brought up John first, Ramona or Kristen? It was Ramona! Kristen just agreed with Ramona that John was "handsy" and left it at that until Ramona ASKED her questions. The END! LOL

Except she didn't leave it at that.....she kept going until Dorinda was in tears. Edited August 24, 2015 by shoegal

[talula]

Yes, this what I can't figure out about Dorinda. How can she not see things that went down and be utterly embarrassed and have apologies for the people she went after, knowing what she knows now.

When she first came on the show I thought she was level headed and a smart woman.

Is it no self awareness? Or she's desperate to be on this show, that she's willing to after the women on the lowest teir (Kristen & Heather)?

I'd like to take Dorinda's apple, turn it into applesauce and shove it in her face. She knows she went after Kristen unfairly to try save her boyfriends grabby hand reputation! What a crazy jack hole!!!

I'd be afraid if I sent anything to his dry cleaner it would come back with stains...yucky.

Edited August 25, 2015 by talula

[motorcitymom65]

Kristen absolutely brought it up to Ramona in the Berkshires in Dorinda's living room, I just watched the scene and quoted it to you. Ramona did not ask her about it until Kristen brought it up. Regardless of whether a producer asked her about it or not, Kristen could have set the record straight easily by stating that John did nothing wrong. Instead, she repeatedly harps on being uncomfortable and that John was touchy-feely. I think that's shitty.

There was a lot more to the conversation than we saw, clearly. Dorinda makes mention at about 2:50 on the clip below that Ramona had brought up that John tended to be too touchy feely. Ramona and Kristen were having that conversation, and Dorinda knows that they were. She was unhappy with them both at the time for making such claims, but she will only go after Kristen (I am assuming, but would so love to be wrong) at the reunion. 

 

http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/season/episode-709/videos?clip=2870222

[WireWrap]

Except she didn't leave it at that.....she kept going until Dorinda was in tears.

 Dorinda was crying because Dorinda had herself all worked up over nothing. Kristen did not say anything bad or mean about John, that has been Ramona's doing!

 

ETA, Dorinda started crying when she talked about Richard dying and having to start over again for the third time and that John was there for her during that time, not because of anything Kristen said.

Edited August 24, 2015 by WireWrap

[shoegal]

Dorinda was crying because Dorinda had herself all worked up over nothing. Kristen did not say anything bad or mean about John, that has been Ramona's doing!

I don't believe that carrying on about John being handsy, grabby, touchy-freely and making her uncomfortable is not saying anything bad. Clearly, Kristen was trying to portray John's behavior as wrong and needing to be addressed. If not, she could have easily stated that John didn't do anything wrong.

Kristen seems to have an MO of playing innocent and incredulous, in that god awful whiny tone. Dorinda was right, she was right there shaking her ass with John. She and her gaping mouth can take several seats as far as I'm concerned.

Edited August 24, 2015 by shoegal

[AnnA]

 Dorinda was crying because Dorinda had herself all worked up over nothing. Kristen did not say anything bad or mean about John, that has been Ramona's doing!

 

Getting worked up over nothing seems to be Dorinda's SOP.   She did it to Heather outside the restaurant because she (singling Heather out of a group) did not wait for her even though they thought she was already inside.  Dorinda even called Heather a bitch for doing it.

 

I have to wonder if Dorinda watches the epsiodes or not and if she does how many dirty martinis she had because she keeps getting it wrong and either doesn't realize or admit it.

Edited August 24, 2015 by AnnA

[OhGromit]

I think the bottom line is this: Dorinda is embarrassed (and probably a little pissed) that her boyfriend got a little too handsy with the women, but instead of admitting this, she deflects the criticism on to the other players in the scene. So I don't agree with those that say she's lacking in self-awareness - I think she sees John, and saw that scene, exactly for what it was, and is acting out due to embarrassment, and perhaps some loyalty to John. She did the exact same thing when she drunkedly and embarrassingly slurred her words and lashed out at Heather over not walking into the restaurant together, or the dumb fight over the word fuck. To this day, she hasn't acknowledged how stupid she was, she only said: "Heather made me angry, and when I get angry, I fight back." Ok, Dorinda. So the five dirty martinis had nothing to do with it.

 

TOTALLY agree with this except the part where you say all this shows she has self-awareness.  That she saw John and got embarrassed shows she has awareness, not self-awareness.  Self-awareness would help her acknowledge the effect of the five dirrrrrty martinis.  

Edited August 24, 2015 by OhGromit

[imjagain]

Getting worked up over nothing seems to be Dorinda's SOP. She did it to Heather outside the restaurant because she (singling Heather out of a group) did not wait for her even though they thought she was already inside. Dorinda even called Heather a bitch for doing it.

I have to wonder if Dorinda watches the epsiodes or not and if she does how many dirty martinis she had because she keeps getting it wrong and either doesn't realize or admit it.

My money is on at least 5 dirty martinis, not nearly dirty enough imo.

[zoeysmom]

There was a lot more to the conversation than we saw, clearly. Dorinda makes mention at about 2:50 on the clip below that Ramona had brought up that John tended to be too touchy feely. Ramona and Kristen were having that conversation, and Dorinda knows that they were. She was unhappy with them both at the time for making such claims, but she will only go after Kristen (I am assuming, but would so love to be wrong) at the reunion. 

 

http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/season/episode-709/videos?clip=2870222

Teflon Ramona has RHONYC immunity-only Bethenny can revoke it.  I think what we are seeing is Dorinda has told Ramona to back off John and Ramona has agreed to.  I don't think Kristen had any desire to form a friendship with Dorinda-maybe because Dorinda is friends with Ramona. I can't blame Kristen for disliking either of them. Seems she might have more in common with Ramona than she realized.       http://stoopidhousewives.com/2015/08/24/kristentaekman-househusband-denies-being-ashleymadison-client-despite-proof-rhony/