A Case Of The Mondays: Vent Your Work Spleen Here

[RealHousewife]

11 minutes ago, partofme said:

I actually did have a manager like this who never replied to emails.  She was one of the nicest managers I ever had, the day to day was great but she wasn’t a very effective manager.  My situation was a little different in that I didn’t need her to train me on anything though, I had been in the position before she became my manager and I understood the job better than she did.  We got a lot of emails and I know she didn’t respond to my colleague’s emails either.   This was pre Covid and I had to go into her office if I sent her an email that I needed her to reply to urgently.  I did like reporting to her on a day to day basis as she was easy going, I always got whatever time I wanted off, if I needed to leave early or come in late it was never an issue, but she was ineffective as a manager in that she was always promising me promotions and stuff and there was no follow through.  

I would think email etiquette would be a big part of most modern jobs. My supervisor is pretty nice so far, so if she is like your former manager, I can work with that. I just hope she understands if I'm not picking up as quickly as I could be. I wish they had me training under someone else. I've had supervisors who were very passionate about their jobs and helping everyone, and that is how I prefer it. 

I will take someone nice and laidback and horrible with emails over someone who's quick responding but not so nice. 

Edited April 22 by RealHousewife

[BlueSkies]

I’m thinking back to a former manager I had years back.  He was pretty funny and truthful.  But at the same time not a hard worker at all and he just quit the job one day,  I looked his name up and it seems his work history is like that.  Moves around and only stays in work gigs shortly.   
 

Kind of leads to my next point of It Is What It Is when it comes to working.  The company I work for is really pushing a work happiness study if you will of employees.  Like questions are along the lines of are you proud to work for this company.  It’s supposedly “anonymous”.   I mean in theory it’s a good idea it just comes across more forced to me.  And as I say when it comes to work I have a it is what it is kind of attitude toward it.  

Edited April 23 by BlueSkies

[Cloud9Shopper]

Does anyone here have experience with freelancing? I’ve only done it on the side, and not often, so not sure what’s normal and what’s not.

I’ve been doing some editing work for a company, and I currently have two invoices due for payment. They told me that the invoice due on May 12, they will process the Friday before (seems reasonable) but the invoice due June 10, they won’t process until June 14 because the 10th is a Monday. They also of course gave the caveat that it may take a few days for the money to hit my bank, meaning that I won’t be paid until after the invoices are due.

Is this normal? I’m thinking of getting out of my contract or seeing if it’s possible because I don’t think I should have to wait until after the invoices are due for payment. And if the money doesn’t show up in my account for a few days, what am I supposed to do? I am relying on this extra income while I look for a better paying full time job but they seem to be taking their very sweet time. At most, I will finish the work I have with them and never work for them again due to their practices about payment. My next assignment starts about two weeks before the second invoice will even be processed.

It feels unfair but maybe I’m wrong in this situation. 

[ginger90]

2 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

It feels unfair but maybe I’m wrong in this situation. 

What does your contract say?

[Cloud9Shopper]

It does say that they process payment the first Friday after the due date of the invoice. I will just have to cross my fingers that my bank gets the payment quickly and puts it in my account. (I have gotten direct deposit notices on Saturdays before so it’s possible with my bank at least.) I must have missed that part, which is my own fault (I did think I read carefully) or maybe I misunderstood it and thought the payment would be there on the due date of the invoice rather than them just starting to process it. 

I think I will finish my contract and then not work for them again. Hopefully by then I’ll have a better paying full-time job, as this kind of payment schedule does not work for me and this is also why I don’t freelance full time. Waiting two months for payment but having to take assignments in the meantime while you wait is just not fun. I have written for other websites that paid much quicker. Maybe within a week after they published my article, if that. 

I did have a promising job interview yesterday, and when I was checking my emails after the interview, I had an invite to schedule panel interviews with my top choice employer. So here’s hoping one of those two things works out soon. I really can’t get by on my current pay and companies who are slow with work payment much longer. 

Edited April 23 by Cloud9Shopper

[partofme]

23 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Does anyone here have experience with freelancing? I’ve only done it on the side, and not often, so not sure what’s normal and what’s not.

I have never freelanced, but in my most recent position I did sometimes have to approve freelancer timesheets, I think they normally got paid the pay period after they submitted their invoice, but I would sometimes get emails from freelancers about missing payments and would have to follow up with finance to resolve the issue.  

[Cloud9Shopper]

How do you guys deal with burnout at work? I hit a breaking point at my job last week based on some things said in a staff meeting (not to me personally, just some stuff that’s now a part of the job that we’re expected to do) and I just feel like I can’t handle it anymore. The customers are getting worse and I’m tired of being a customer servant, having to listen to tantrums and complaining all day, and make exceptions to deadlines or hear people argue when I tell them “no, not even a supervisor can make an exception for XYZ.” 

So with all that, you think I’d be motivated to apply for jobs, but I’m also burned out on the job search. I’m tired of constantly having to change my resume (am on the fourth version and I have gotten pretty consistent interviews throughout my job hunt so this probably isn’t the key issue), tired of always having to think about what I’m doing wrong that’s not getting me an offer, sick of writing out STAR answers and reviewing them, etc. I have had two interviews within the past week with two different employers, which is a positive. One was just yesterday so I wasn’t expecting an answer today, and they are coming into their busy period, so I suspect I may not get a quick decision. The other interview was last week and they haven’t gotten back to me yet, but I do think they said the hiring manager would be going on vacation. And I feel disappointed in myself watching others announce their new positions and how excited they are while I sit and wait, worried my offer will never come and I’ll be stuck on the phones for years.

I’ve been monitoring the job board at my current employer so I can apply from within and at least get the internal candidate edge, but there’s nothing available right now, unfortunately.

So, for those of you who have been there, and don’t have the option to just quit, how have you managed in the meantime? I just don’t know how much longer I can keep going like I am.

 

[Ohiopirate02]

13 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

So, for those of you who have been there, and don’t have the option to just quit, how have you managed in the meantime? I just don’t know how much longer I can keep going like I am.

 

I was at this point two years ago.  I was burnt out and could not quit because my employer was the only place I could conceivably work in my area.  I was also sitting on a lot of unused vacation days, so I told my boss I was using them and he needed to find coverage for one of the two days I was going to take.  I recognize how fortunate I am that my job needs me as much as I need it, so he did not push the issue.  I then found a cheap hotel room a couple of hours away from home and decamped there for 3 days.  Again, I am fortunate that a couple of hours away from home is the beach.  It was not my preferred beach weather, but I could afford an ocean view room during the off season on a weekday.  The work situation got better after that, but I was so close to breaking that my boss definitely picked up on it even though I had been screaming for help for the past 6 or 7 months that he somehow never understood.  

[isalicat]

18 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

So, for those of you who have been there, and don’t have the option to just quit, how have you managed in the meantime? I just don’t know how much longer I can keep going like I am.

Well, I think each time I have felt "at the end of my rope" I considered the alternative: not being able to pay rent/mortgage, not being able to buy food, etc. etc. - ultimately as a self-supporting adult you just have to suck it up, or throw yourself on the mercy of others (which isn't always possible and certainly, unless in case of emergency, not very desirable). I think it is crucially important in life to have sources of joy and refreshment outside work - you have mentioned in other threads singing in your church choir, which for me was a great place of nourishment; it seems like that is wearing on you as well. Perhaps you need to take up a new hobby or find something like hiking or swimming or something else physical that takes you "out of your head" - I also like to put on some really loud EDM and throw myself around the living room to get the cobwebs out. Inner fortitude is something you are going to have to find for yourself but it is the final stage in growing up, really.

[partofme]

I wish it was possible to get a job just based on a resume and to not have to go through job interviews.  I actually have a good resume now that gets me lots of phone screens and interviews but so far I’m not getting the jobs.  Got a rejection today for an interview I had on Friday, seventh rejection since I was laid off.  (Back before I was laid off I would almost never get calls for interviews)  I’m trying to stay positive despite my track record so far, I have two interviews and a phone screen scheduled this week and am hoping things will turn around.  

[PRgal]

39 minutes ago, partofme said:

I wish it was possible to get a job just based on a resume and to not have to go through job interviews.  I actually have a good resume now that gets me lots of phone screens and interviews but so far I’m not getting the jobs.  Got a rejection today for an interview I had on Friday, seventh rejection since I was laid off.  (Back before I was laid off I would almost never get calls for interviews)  I’m trying to stay positive despite my track record so far, I have two interviews and a phone screen scheduled this week and am hoping things will turn around.  

Or without having referrals.  It's definitely a plus.  

[Angeltoes]

I work in a warehouse and our mornings are active as we pull items off shelves and box them up to send to our stores, etc.  I wore a light blue t-shirt today.  About three hours into my work day I looked down and wondered why my right breast looked misshapen.  That's when I realized that my bra on that side was over my boob and not covering it.  It must have happened when I reached for something on a high shelf.  So my nipple had basically been staring at my co-workers all morning.  Happy Monday.

[BlueSkies]

On 5/1/2024 at 5:43 PM, isalicat said:

Well, I think each time I have felt "at the end of my rope" I considered the alternative: not being able to pay rent/mortgage, not being able to buy food, etc. etc. - ultimately as a self-supporting adult you just have to suck it up, or throw yourself on the mercy of others (which isn't always possible and certainly, unless in case of emergency, not very desirable). I think it is crucially important in life to have sources of joy and refreshment outside work - you have mentioned in other threads singing in your church choir, which for me was a great place of nourishment; it seems like that is wearing on you as well. Perhaps you need to take up a new hobby or find something like hiking or swimming or something else physical that takes you "out of your head" - I also like to put on some really loud EDM and throw myself around the living room to get the cobwebs out. Inner fortitude is something you are going to have to find for yourself but it is the final stage in growing up, really.

The inner fortitude thing I struggle with as well.  While I never cared for high school or college for that matter....   in the back of my head I knew it wasn't going to last forever and goals in those days seemed a bit more black and white.

 

Yeah growing up that's not always the case.  That's really for each person kind of thing to figure out.  

Edited May 7 by BlueSkies

[Cloud9Shopper]

7 hours ago, PRgal said:

Or without having referrals.  It's definitely a plus.  

I always wonder what those of us without vast networks of referrals are supposed to. Just give up? Do we not deserve good jobs too? It’s kind of ridiculous to think that because I can’t get connected to the right people (though I’ve had referrals that didn’t lead to offers) I should be stuck in customer service forever. 

My network has largely been not useful. Usually they say “oh I’ll let you know if I hear of anything” (they never do) or they just shrug and say “keep trying I’m sure you’ll find something” or “oh here’s a job opening I saw but I don’t know anyone at that company.” 

[Yeah No]

3 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I always wonder what those of us without vast networks of referrals are supposed to. Just give up? Do we not deserve good jobs too? It’s kind of ridiculous to think that because I can’t get connected to the right people (though I’ve had referrals that didn’t lead to offers) I should be stuck in customer service forever. 

My network has largely been not useful. Usually they say “oh I’ll let you know if I hear of anything” (they never do) or they just shrug and say “keep trying I’m sure you’ll find something” or “oh here’s a job opening I saw but I don’t know anyone at that company.” 

I'm wondering if today there are any old fashioned "head hunters" left that can help you.  An old college friend once helped me get a job that way.  A head hunter in my area "owed him a favor" so he put me in touch with her.  She found me a great job I'd never have found on my own.  And I got the job!  I was astounded because without that help I was getting nowhere after over a year of searching.  This was back in 2011.  I know a lot has changed since then, though.  It was already changing then too.

Even without headhunters, if you haven't done so, putting it out there on any sites your classmates frequent that you're searching can't hurt.  That's how my old college friend knew I was looking for a job.  By the time I did that I was getting "desperate" and that's the only reason I posted on a classmate group.  It felt like a huge longshot to even do that.  He would have been the last person I ever thought would help me find a job!  That headhunter must have owed him a really big favor!

I have a friend that's going through something similar right now.  He's a lawyer that's either been in a partnership or solo for his entire career but has wanted a position as a judge in the court system for years.  He has refused to give up even though he never gets any job he applies for as a magistrate or judge.  He is incredibly qualified, having done everything he needed to do to become so, but he doesn't seem to have the right network or backing to get him a job.  It sucks that someone so qualified can get passed over for so many years.  This most recent time was the breaking point for him.  He was basically assured by very high ranking officials in our state that he would be appointed this time but no dice.  He is now realizing that he's pretty much exhausted all his chances.  After a certain point it looks bad and works against you if you keep applying at the same organization and never get the job.  Also he is now over 60 which doesn't help.

 

[Moose135]

12 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I always wonder what those of us without vast networks of referrals are supposed to. Just give up? Do we not deserve good jobs too? It’s kind of ridiculous to think that because I can’t get connected to the right people (though I’ve had referrals that didn’t lead to offers) I should be stuck in customer service forever. 

In almost 40 years of employment following the Air Force, I've gotten one job through a referral. My current job? Found it listed on LinkedIn and applied. The one before that? A recruiter from an agency contacted me - based on my LinkedIn profile - for a contract/contingent role that lasted 2 years.  These are relatively senior, analytics roles, not customer service.

[isalicat]

Ahem: a "headhunter" is a professional recruiter that works (either on contingency or for an agreed-upon fee, or sometimes both) on behalf of a client company to find perfect candidates for a particular, usually hard to fill, opening. Headhunters do NOT help people find jobs as rule, except as a rare favor, and then the best they can do for you would be to keep you in mind within their area of recruitment (i.e. I was a technical recruiter, so I would be no good to people in the legal field for example, as I recruited only scientists and engineers). If you are looking for a job and need help, you go to an employment agency and generally pay a fee up front for them to help you search. In my experience employment agencies are great for finding temp jobs and terrible for perm jobs, particularly for anything professional (non clerical). And your fee is also generally non-refundable so if they can't or don't help you, too bad.

To be honest, as a headhunter for 38 years, I considered that my time = $$, and the source of money was the hiring company, so I gave time to people looking for jobs only if they were a good prospect for one of my client companies. There are less and less headhunters and employment agencies out there since the internet has replaced a lot of those functions (see: LinkedIn and Indeed).

[Yeah No]

13 hours ago, isalicat said:

Ahem: a "headhunter" is a professional recruiter that works (either on contingency or for an agreed-upon fee, or sometimes both) on behalf of a client company to find perfect candidates for a particular, usually hard to fill, opening. Headhunters do NOT help people find jobs as rule, except as a rare favor, and then the best they can do for you would be to keep you in mind within their area of recruitment (i.e. I was a technical recruiter, so I would be no good to people in the legal field for example, as I recruited only scientists and engineers). If you are looking for a job and need help, you go to an employment agency and generally pay a fee up front for them to help you search. In my experience employment agencies are great for finding temp jobs and terrible for perm jobs, particularly for anything professional (non clerical). And your fee is also generally non-refundable so if they can't or don't help you, too bad.

To be honest, as a headhunter for 38 years, I considered that my time = $$, and the source of money was the hiring company, so I gave time to people looking for jobs only if they were a good prospect for one of my client companies. There are less and less headhunters and employment agencies out there since the internet has replaced a lot of those functions (see: LinkedIn and Indeed).

OK, maybe I really meant "employment counselor" that works via an agency. I stand corrected on the use of the term "headhunter".  I just wish the correction didn't feel like a sledgehammer to the head!  🤪😜🔨

Edited May 8 by Yeah No
picked the wrong emoji!

[partofme]

41 minutes ago, isalicat said:

If you are looking for a job and need help, you go to an employment agency and generally pay a fee up front for them to help you search. In my experience employment agencies are great for finding temp jobs and terrible for perm jobs, particularly for anything professional (non clerical). And your fee is also generally non-refundable so if they can't or don't help you, too bad

It’s been years since I used an employment agency but I had gotten a temp job that ended up going permanent through one and didn’t pay them anything.  I’m pretty sure my employer paid the agency. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, partofme said:

It’s been years since I used an employment agency but I had gotten a temp job that ended up going permanent through one and didn’t pay them anything.  I’m pretty sure my employer paid the agency. 

Same here. I used Roberthalf Legal, and the two recruiters I worked with, fought for me and made sure I was put in the job I was looking for and a good fit.  They aggressively marketed for me. 

Now life happened and they were gone when one contract job ended prematurely-so I ended up searching myself and got hired where I am today on my own.

[BlueSkies]

22 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Same here. I used Roberthalf Legal, and the two recruiters I worked with, fought for me and made sure I was put in the job I was looking for and a good fit.  They aggressively marketed for me. 

Now life happened and they were gone when one contract job ended prematurely-so I ended up searching myself and got hired where I am today on my own.

That's good to hear.

 

Years back I asked RobertHalf Finance to help me out.  I guess the job they had in mind fell through or something because I never heard back from them.

 

This is like 2010ish.  Back then they didn't really have good online reviews but times I imagine can change.

 

I guess Robert Half Finance and Legal have a similar owner.  

 

 

[isalicat]

On 5/7/2024 at 4:31 PM, Yeah No said:

I just wish the correction didn't feel like a sledgehammer to the head!  🤪😜🔨

Edited 11 hours ago by Yeah No

I'm sorry! Did not mean for it to be like that...just trying to be helpful since it seemed like for some people looking for new jobs here that they had not had any experience dealing with agencies related to employment and I did not want them wasting their time trying to get a headhunter to help them. I am very glad to hear about people having found positions through employment agencies and the hiring company paying the fee - I assume these were for professional level jobs, like nurses and paralegals, etc.? I wonder how that is going these days in this crazy job market...

[GHScorpiosRule]

16 minutes ago, isalicat said:

I am very glad to hear about people having found positions through employment agencies and the hiring company paying the fee - I assume these were for professional level jobs, like nurses and paralegals, etc.? I wonder how that is going these days in this crazy job market...

Yes for me. I am a paralegal and that division also placed in accounting jobs. What's ironic is I have been getting messages via Linked In about "amazing positions" that these recruiters think would be perfect for me, after they reviewed my resume. Right. Now that I've been at my current job for six years almost. Though they were sending me messages after I hit the two year mark. But couldn't get one to call me or email me back when I was looking for a permanent job. It's a vicious cycle.

[Yeah No]

13 hours ago, isalicat said:

I'm sorry! Did not mean for it to be like that...just trying to be helpful since it seemed like for some people looking for new jobs here that they had not had any experience dealing with agencies related to employment and I did not want them wasting their time trying to get a headhunter to help them. I am very glad to hear about people having found positions through employment agencies and the hiring company paying the fee - I assume these were for professional level jobs, like nurses and paralegals, etc.? I wonder how that is going these days in this crazy job market...

No worries. I should know better. It's been a couple of years for me, though, so I guess I'm slipping, lol.

BTW, I think the employment counselor that helped me was with Robert Half.  The job I got was with a Fortune 100 company in their Finance Dept. working for the head of one of its sub-departments. I couldn't have done better at the time.

I did notice in the past several years getting inundated with emails from employment counselors working remotely from all over the country and the world. A lot of it was annoying because they just threw anything at you even if it wasn't anything like what you were qualified for or looking for. I had to block them and remove my email and other contact info. from my online profiles with all the big employment sites. I still get some of them despite that believe it or not!

[isalicat]

On 5/8/2024 at 6:17 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

Though they were sending me messages after I hit the two year mark. But couldn't get one to call me or email me back when I was looking for a permanent job. It's a vicious cycle.

Aha - you have spied one of the most obvious of the "Catch 22" aspects of employment/job hunting! Good recruiters are generally looking for people that currently gainfully employed as those people have already proved themselves hire-able and employable...when you are not working and looking, you already have a "negative" mark in your column because you are not working. When I was recruiting I was specifically contacting people that were not looking for a job, but were in the right field and could be tempted...anyone that was referred to me that was in the right field but did not have a job currently was significantly less desirable to my clients, even though they were more available and generally more motivated.

[GHScorpiosRule]

18 minutes ago, isalicat said:

Aha - you have spied one of the most obvious of the "Catch 22" aspects of employment/job hunting! Good recruiters are generally looking for people that currently gainfully employed as those people have already proved themselves hire-able and employable...when you are not working and looking, you already have a "negative" mark in your column because you are not working. When I was recruiting I was specifically contacting people that were not looking for a job, but were in the right field and could be tempted...anyone that was referred to me that was in the right field but did not have a job currently was significantly less desirable to my clients, even though they were more available and generally more motivated.

Absolutely! But the two recruiters I had that I worked with, they both fought and kept in touch with me when I was out of work-and did a great job placing me in contract projects, while still looking to find a permanent job for me. I really lucked out with them.

[Sweedish Fish]

Hi all.

I've moved since I was last on here.  Early retirement and palm trees now. 🙂

Because I've taken the SS, I can only work part-time (or make a certain amount of money before the government takes it. I decided that I wanted easy and do something that would bring me happiness.

Enter doggy daycare job.

Oh my god in heaven.  As much as I loved all of the dogs, it was killin me. 90% cleaning, mopping, picking up poop, hauling buckets, vacuuming, crates, moving heavy playground equipment and stopping skuffles with some big ass dogs.

10% playing with them and horrible pay.

I could not take it.  Moving on....

[GHScorpiosRule]

This is a very difficult week for me. I had such HIGH hopes at this time last year-working on and assisting at my first trial. And after the first day, it descended into the bowels of Dante's WORST HELL. I'm having PTSD-like flashbacks. Sometimes having a nearly photographic memory is the pits.

I'll be okay, focusing on the work I'm doing, but then I'll have a flashback. Like today, NaziBitch literally took the food from my hands and ordered me to do X ASAP. Or turning around and telling me she "took the hit" for me on something SHE hadn't clarified what needed doing and didn't bother to QC.

I think I'll have me a glass or three of Sangria when I get home this evening.

[EtheltoTillie]

20 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

This is a very difficult week for me. I had such HIGH hopes at this time last year-working on and assisting at my first trial. And after the first day, it descended into the bowels of Dante's WORST HELL. I'm having PTSD-like flashbacks. Sometimes having a nearly photographic memory is the pits.

I'll be okay, focusing on the work I'm doing, but then I'll have a flashback. Like today, NaziBitch literally took the food from my hands and ordered me to do X ASAP. Or turning around and telling me she "took the hit" for me on something SHE hadn't clarified what needed doing and didn't bother to QC.

I think I'll have me a glass or three of Sangria when I get home this evening.

Oh I remember your terrible time. Was that a whole year ago?  

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, EtheltoTillie said:

Oh I remember your terrible time. Was that a whole year ago?  

Yes. Hard to believe. Time really does fly. But at least this weekend I'm going to see my niece, who had her first baby back in December, and also see my brother and sister-in-law as well, so this memory will take the place of last year's horrid experience.

And I get to get some human cuddling!

[partofme]

I don’t know if I should be quite so annoyed by this but in the past 2 days I’ve seen two different posts on LinkedIn from people who have started new jobs at the company that laid me and three hundred people off three months and ten days ago.  I know they’re not in the exact role that I used to have but it bothers me that I’m still out of work and the company feels it in a place to be hiring again. 

[Cloud9Shopper]

1 hour ago, partofme said:

I don’t know if I should be quite so annoyed by this but in the past 2 days I’ve seen two different posts on LinkedIn from people who have started new jobs at the company that laid me and three hundred people off three months and ten days ago.  I know they’re not in the exact role that I used to have but it bothers me that I’m still out of work and the company feels it in a place to be hiring again. 

Not the exact same situation, but I definitely still resent my old company for laying me off less than six months into my tenure. Two weeks before Christmas. Into a really bad job market when I was new to the career field. I have not been able to get into anything similar since then and resent the employees who got to stay or, in the case of my old boss, went on to start her own business and become even more successful. Old Boss has become a LinkedIn influencer lite who writes platitudes about how you treat job candidates and tells job seekers to just “hang in there!” and all I can do is roll my eyes but not say anything because I need the positive reference. It’s so annoying that one non-fault layoff has caused me to completely stagnate and not be able to land anything more than a customer service position despite my other work experience. 

I do kinda relate though. My old employer was a law firm and they sure have hired tons of attorneys since I left. So go figure, people like me struggle while they bring in more people at six figure salaries. 🙄

Edited May 22 by Cloud9Shopper

[ginger90]

My daughter has been attending county meetings. She’s in HR. She got offered a job by another company at the end of the most recent meeting. They said they appreciated her professionalism, and how she presents her view on topics being discussed.

You never know where you may be seen.

[Cloud9Shopper]

I applied for a job last night and was excited when the recruiter got back to me this morning, as I haven’t had any interviews lately. The role was a “payroll support specialist” at a financial company, and the job description read largely like a customer support role for businesses, plus it mentioned some other aspects that I have experience in, like conducting training and creating internal resource materials. I knew I didn’t have payroll experience but I’m considering changing my career to accounting, so I was excited to apply and told the recruiter this would be a career change for me.

She emailed me this morning and said she didn’t see this one HR/payroll application on my resume and said we want someone with this experience; can you let me know what programs you used? So I told her, and then she got back to me and said sorry but the hiring manager wants someone with recent experience in this program.

It was such a blow. Never mind my other skills or my enthusiasm for the position or excitement to get on a better path. The fact that I don’t know one application was enough for them to toss my whole application and say sorry. Well, people that do know this program had to learn it SOMEWHERE. I have a coworker who is great at Excel and shows me how to use some of the functions when I ask her. But even she took an Excel class a few years ago and didn’t walk on to the job as a guru. 

I am so sick of not being able to catch a break. I am tired of having to clap for everyone else and hearing how perfect everyone else is and seeing them get jobs while I get passed over for silly reasons like this. I’m sick of still being in the call center as my best working years and years for my highest earning potential fade away. (I’m already in my late 30s.) Tired of being blamed and accused of having a bad resume or bad interviewing skills when employers are behaving badly. Last month, I interviewed with a company who previously put me through four rounds of interviews only to choose an internal candidate. I went through four rounds again with them for a different job, heard how excited the hiring manager was to see me again, they still chose someone else. When I asked the recruiter for feedback and if she heard of any concerns with my candidacy, she didn’t even respond. 

But sure, keep telling me it’s all my fault. I can’t even hear platitudes anymore about how I just need to be patient and I’m so awesome and if I just hang in there I’ll get something! Well after a while…it gets old “hanging in there” while it seems like everyone else is getting offers and promotions and raises and no one else is struggling this bad. I just cannot capture the luck others seem to have, where they find a hiring manager who believes in them or they go to work for a supervisor who wants to mentor them or develops a soft spot for them. Even if I do change careers to accounting or anything I pretty much have no hope of a good salary at my age. Only another year or so until I’m a victim of age discrimination too. 

Edited May 31 by Cloud9Shopper

[Yeah No]

2 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I applied for a job last night and was excited when the recruiter got back to me this morning, as I haven’t had any interviews lately. The role was a “payroll support specialist” at a financial company, and the job description read largely like a customer support role for businesses, plus it mentioned some other aspects that I have experience in, like conducting training and creating internal resource materials. I knew I didn’t have payroll experience but I’m considering changing my career to accounting, so I was excited to apply and told the recruiter this would be a career change for me.

She emailed me this morning and said she didn’t see this one HR/payroll application on my resume and said we want someone with this experience; can you let me know what programs you used? So I told her, and then she got back to me and said sorry but the hiring manager wants someone with recent experience in this program.

It was such a blow. Never mind my other skills or my enthusiasm for the position or excitement to get on a better path. The fact that I don’t know one application was enough for them to toss my whole application and say sorry. Well, people that do know this program had to learn it SOMEWHERE. I have a coworker who is great at Excel and shows me how to use some of the functions when I ask her. But even she took an Excel class a few years ago and didn’t walk on to the job as a guru. 

I am so sick of not being able to catch a break. I am tired of having to clap for everyone else and hearing how perfect everyone else is and seeing them get jobs while I get passed over for silly reasons like this. I’m sick of still being in the call center as my best working years and years for my highest earning potential fade away. (I’m already in my late 30s.) Tired of being blamed and accused of having a bad resume or bad interviewing skills when employers are behaving badly. Last month, I interviewed with a company who previously put me through four rounds of interviews only to choose an internal candidate. I went through four rounds again with them for a different job, heard how excited the hiring manager was to see me again, they still chose someone else. When I asked the recruiter for feedback and if she heard of any concerns with my candidacy, she didn’t even respond. 

But sure, keep telling me it’s all my fault. I can’t even hear platitudes anymore about how I just need to be patient and I’m so awesome and if I just hang in there I’ll get something! Well after a while…it gets old “hanging in there” while it seems like everyone else is getting offers and promotions and raises and no one else is struggling this bad. I just cannot capture the luck others seem to have, where they find a hiring manager who believes in them or they go to work for a supervisor who wants to mentor them or develops a soft spot for them. Even if I do change careers to accounting or anything I pretty much have no hope of a good salary at my age. Only another year or so until I’m a victim of age discrimination too. 

Cloud9, I can't tell you how much I relate to what you've been going through.  I'm really getting choked up reading your post.  I really do feel your pain, it's not just a platitude.  I've had a similar story, even down to being told I don't have experience with a certain payroll program even though I worked on every other one and they're all so similar.  And being put through all those rounds of interviews just to be let down yet again.  I hear you about being tired of thinking it's you that's doing something wrong.  In retrospect I know I didn't do anything wrong and I'm sure you haven't either.  

What gets me is how many people lie to get jobs.  I knew several people I had to train on certain programs because they lied on their resumes and in interviews to get their jobs.  I would never do that, but those are the people that seem to get somewhere from my point of view.

I know I'm basically retired but if I had been able to find a job between 7 and 3 years ago I would be better off financially going into retirement than I am now.  Before the pandemic and all the crazy inflation I felt like I would be OK anyway but now I look back and the fact that I never did get a job is bothering me again.  

I hesitate to try to make you feel better because you're not in the frame of mind to hear advice, but you are still young and at least you have time left to keep trying.  It will happen one day when you least expect it.  The only advice I will give is to try something different.  If one approach isn't working keep trying others.  Really think outside the box.  And research the company culture of the companies you apply to.  Some companies might be a better fit for you.  I developed a sense for that when I was applying.  Plus people I knew would clue me in on which companies were the best to their employees.  Apologies if you're already doing all this, I'm just trying to help.

By the way, my best earning years didn't start until my early 40s.  That decade is actually when my earnings peaked.  So maybe the best is yet to come, you just have to keep trying until you find that one person that recognizes your talent and actually likes you.  I didn't get that pivotal job until I relocated to a different area and started from scratch.  I didn't even work for a few months in between my previous job and that one.  It was just luck that I stumbled into the best boss I ever had.  I worked for him for 7 years.  I would have stayed with him but his luck went south.  He was supposed to be promoted to president of an entire division of our Fortune 100 company but the president of the entire company left and his replacement didn't much like my boss, which was unthinkable because he was pretty much liked and respected by everyone.  So at the very last minute he didn't get the position.  After several months he left the company after over 20 years there and moved back to the city he came from, where he became the COO of another huge company.  Unfortunately it was too far away for me to move there. 

So I ended up in a bad situation at a bad time with no boss and layoffs on the horizon in 2008 during the recession of that decade.  And I did get laid off.  My old boss later regretted not clueing me in on his departure and even sent me "guilt money" to try to make up for it, but it didn't do me much good in the long run.  Telling me in confidence would have at least given me some time to find something before the economy took a nose dive.  Of course no one knew that was going to happen at the time but he still regrets it to this day.  He should have known he could trust me.  After all I was his personal assistant and knew a lot of confidential stuff as it was.  And unfortunately this was one of those companies that never rehires anyone after a layoff, no matter the reason. 

I can get really upset thinking about the great money and advancement I was screwed out of because of that bit of bad luck.  And by the time I was out there looking during the recession I was in my 50s and had to settle after 2 years of looking for a job (it was really that hard to find one in those days and my tale of woe could fill 3 pages of this thread if I told it).  I had no choice, my unemployment was going to end and my bank account was being depleted.  I knew a few admins. that had been laid off along with me that had to do the same thing.  One actually came to work at my next company.  I wrote her a letter of recommendation and that helped get her the job.  But she also had to settle on salary being over 55.  It's the cruel reality.  BTW, she is also retired now and we are still friends to this day.

Just think, you're not that desperate, you're actually in a better position than I was.  You just need your break to happen. I'll keep hoping and praying for you that it happens soon.  ((Hugs)).

Edited May 31 by Yeah No

[Cloud9Shopper]

5 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Cloud9, I can't tell you how much I relate to what you've been going through.  I'm really getting choked up reading your post.  I really do feel your pain, it's not just a platitude.  I've had a similar story, even down to being told I don't have experience with a certain payroll program even though I worked on every other one and they're all so similar.  And being put through all those rounds of interviews just to be let down yet again.  I hear you about being tired of thinking it's you that's doing something wrong.  In retrospect I know I didn't do anything wrong and I'm sure you haven't either.  

What gets me is how many people lie to get jobs.  I knew several people I had to train on certain programs because they lied on their resumes and in interviews to get their jobs.  I would never do that, but those are the people that seem to get somewhere from my point of view.

I know I'm basically retired but if I had been able to find a job between 7 and 3 years ago I would be better off financially going into retirement than I am now.  Before the pandemic and all the crazy inflation I felt like I would be OK anyway but now I look back and the fact that I never did get a job is bothering me again.  

I hesitate to try to make you feel better because you're not in the frame of mind to hear advice, but you are still young and at least you have time left to keep trying.  It will happen one day when you least expect it.  The only advice I will give is to try something different.  If one approach isn't working keep trying others.  Really think outside the box.  And research the company culture of the companies you apply to.  Some companies might be a better fit for you.  I developed a sense for that when I was applying.  Plus people I knew would clue me in on which companies were the best to their employees.  Apologies if you're already doing all this, I'm just trying to help.

By the way, my best earning years didn't start until my early 40s.  That decade is actually when my earnings peaked.  So maybe the best is yet to come, you just have to keep trying until you find that one person that recognizes your talent and actually likes you.  I didn't get that pivotal job until I relocated to a different area and started from scratch.  I didn't even work for a few months in between my previous job and that one.  It was just luck that I stumbled into the best boss I ever had.  I worked for him for 7 years.  I would have stayed with him but his luck went south.  He was supposed to be promoted to president of an entire division of our Fortune 100 company but the president of the entire company left and his replacement didn't much like my boss, which was unthinkable because he was pretty much liked and respected by everyone.  So at the very last minute he didn't get the position.  After several months he left the company after over 20 years there and moved back to the city he came from, where he became the COO of another huge company.  Unfortunately it was too far away for me to move there. 

So I ended up in a bad situation at a bad time with no boss and layoffs on the horizon in 2008 during the recession of that decade.  And I did get laid off.  My old boss later regretted not clueing me in on his departure and even sent me "guilt money" to try to make up for it, but it didn't do me much good in the long run.  Telling me in confidence would have at least given me some time to find something before the economy took a nose dive.  Of course no one knew that was going to happen at the time but he still regrets it to this day.  He should have known he could trust me.  After all I was his personal assistant and knew a lot of confidential stuff as it was.  And unfortunately this was one of those companies that never rehires anyone after a layoff, no matter the reason. 

I can get really upset thinking about the great money and advancement I was screwed out of because of that bit of bad luck.  And by the time I was out there looking during the recession I was in my 50s and had to settle after 2 years of looking for a job (it was really that hard to find one in those days and my tale of woe could fill 3 pages of this thread if I told it).  I had no choice, my unemployment was going to end and my bank account was being depleted.  I knew a few admins. that had been laid off along with me that had to do the same thing.  One actually came to work at my next company.  I wrote her a letter of recommendation and that helped get her the job.  But she also had to settle on salary being over 55.  It's the cruel reality.  BTW, she is also retired now and we are still friends to this day.

Just think, you're not that desperate, you're actually in a better position than I was.  You just need your break to happen. I'll keep hoping and praying for you that it happens soon.  ((Hugs)).

Thank you for all of this. It helped a lot more than hearing another random person say to me “oh I can help you with your resume just feel free to send it to me!” I have actually just redone it yet again and am trying to de-emphasize the customer service portion of my job because some employers don’t want to hire customer service reps for higher level roles so I figured if I can eliminate the stigma, hopefully it will work.  It shouldn’t take sending your resume to 25 different people and redoing it into the ground just to get a job interview. It stresses me out just how hard it is anymore to constantly have to be reworking your resume to get maybe one or two interviews. It feels like I will never be good enough. 

I have considered lying on my resume as well (even just embellishing my current title so it looks more impressive and I can hopefully get more callbacks), but I have never been able to do it. It does feel like a lot of people lie these days though. Part of me feels tempted to just because it seems as if nearly everyone else is doing it and getting away with it.

I feel the same way as you about my layoff. I was laid off after less than six months at my old job. I thought by now I would be “over it” because it’s been a year and a half, but I feel angry still because I see how hard it is to get a job no matter what I try or how much I try to smile and be personable at a job interview. And honestly yes I think about all the experience and accomplishments I was cheated out of; especially because my old boss, who survived the layoff, has been successful ever since.

Oh I’d love to relocate. It could be a while before I have the money though. I moved last year and it cost me $1,000 just to go 10 miles. Moving 10 states away would be a whole other issue… 

I don’t want to take any old job either. I got upset with someone last night outside of here who suggested I take a course in CNA or medical assisting. I have no desire to be a nurse or work with patients but this person felt it was appropriate to tell me that I shouldn’t whine that I can’t find a job and I’d never be able to last in “real” work. I don’t want to go into nursing because I don’t feel I have the skill or personality for it. I have friends and family who are nurses or have worked in healthcare in other patient-facing roles. I envy their paychecks and how easy it is for them to get a job. Both of those things don’t mean I want to go to nursing school in the fall. I know there’s a need in nursing, and I’m not going to tell someone not to do it if that’s what they want, but I’m tired of healthcare being shoved on me as a way to fix all my problems. And if I’m unhappy in customer service, well, nursing or CNA work is like that turned up to 500. 

Edited May 31 by Cloud9Shopper

[Yeah No]

1 hour ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Thank you for all of this. It helped a lot more than hearing another random person say to me “oh I can help you with your resume just feel free to send it to me!” I have actually just redone it yet again and am trying to de-emphasize the customer service portion of my job because some employers don’t want to hire customer service reps for higher level roles so I figured if I can eliminate the stigma, hopefully it will work.  It shouldn’t take sending your resume to 25 different people and redoing it into the ground just to get a job interview. It stresses me out just how hard it is anymore to constantly have to be reworking your resume to get maybe one or two interviews. It feels like I will never be good enough. 

I have considered lying on my resume as well (even just embellishing my current title so it looks more impressive and I can hopefully get more callbacks), but I have never been able to do it. It does feel like a lot of people lie these days though. Part of me feels tempted to just because it seems as if nearly everyone else is doing it and getting away with it.

I feel the same way as you about my layoff. I was laid off after less than six months at my old job. I thought by now I would be “over it” because it’s been a year and a half, but I feel angry still because I see how hard it is to get a job no matter what I try or how much I try to smile and be personable at a job interview. And honestly yes I think about all the experience and accomplishments I was cheated out of; especially because my old boss, who survived the layoff, has been successful ever since.

Oh I’d love to relocate. It could be a while before I have the money though. I moved last year and it cost me $1,000 just to go 10 miles. Moving 10 states away would be a whole other issue… 

I don’t want to take any old job either. I got upset with someone last night outside of here who suggested I take a course in CNA or medical assisting. I have no desire to be a nurse or work with patients but this person felt it was appropriate to tell me that I shouldn’t whine that I can’t find a job and I’d never be able to last in “real” work. I don’t want to go into nursing because I don’t feel I have the skill or personality for it. I have friends and family who are nurses or have worked in healthcare in other patient-facing roles. I envy their paychecks and how easy it is for them to get a job. Both of those things don’t mean I want to go to nursing school in the fall. I know there’s a need in nursing, and I’m not going to tell someone not to do it if that’s what they want, but I’m tired of healthcare being shoved on me as a way to fix all my problems. And if I’m unhappy in customer service, well, nursing or CNA work is like that turned up to 500. 

You're welcome.  And if anyone thinks that working a desk job in corporate America is not "real work" I would like to challenge them to try it before they assume that.  Nursing is one of those things you have to have a "calling" to do.  It would not have been for me either although I admire people that have that calling.  My nephew's long time live-in girlfriend ditched working in corporate America for a career in nursing.  They even moved down to Maryland so she could go to Johns Hopkins nursing school.  Wow, good for them.  She's finally happy.  But again, it was her true calling.  I thought mine was counseling so when I was working in higher ed. I got a Master's in Counseling Psych. intending to use it in a higher ed. setting.  Well unfortunately right after I got my degree I moved out of NYC to CT where the salaries really sucked and when I found out how much they expected for so little I ended up in the corporate world where I made much better money.  And I didn't have the personality to go it alone and be my own entrepreneur. 

I really don't regret not being able to practice counseling.  My short experience doing it taught me that I tend get too involved in people's problems to keep a healthy professional distance.  I probably could have overcome that in time but I'm not sorry I didn't pursue it.  At this age I'm making my peace with the way things turned out.  

I also have peeve about those people that try to push you toward careers or jobs you have no interest in at all.  I remember after close to two years of looking people were seriously recommending that I get a job at McDonald's!  Never mind how insulting that was given the levels I had achieved but how unrealistic as unless I lied big time they never would have hired someone with all my experience in much higher paying jobs.  People think just anyone can walk in and get a fast food job.  It doesn't work that way.  Even there they want someone that "fits their culture" and someone with my education and background was not it.  I'd probably have more luck now doing that that I'm retired because they would assume I wasn't doing it as an interim gig in between career jobs.  But although I once worked a Summer at a Burger King in 1977 (my first job) I have no desire to go back into fast food!  I do still miss being able to make my own Whoppers, though, LOL.

So no, don't take just "any old job".  It can really wreck up your trajectory.  You know what you're doing staying the course.

My mother used to redo people's resumes as a semi-retirement gig.  I learned a lot from her, she really had a gift for it.  I reworked my own resume so many times I got sick of it.  I hear you about that.  I tried all different formats, left things off, added things, tried different fonts, you name it.  After decades of that I said "screw it", LOL.  Sometimes the more effort you put into reaching a goal the more it eludes you.  Maybe not thinking about it so much might put you in a better frame of mind and that alone might make you approach interviews with a fresher face and more appealing demeanor.  I don't doubt that after I got burned to a crisp being rejected so many times I might not have been as appealing as I would have been if I had meditated and gotten a massage every other day.  So there is that too.

 

[BlueSkies]

There’s a senior manager where I work and sometimes when you ask him something he’ll just flat out say I don’t know like Dustin Hoffmans character in RainMan.

 

I think it’s kind of funny in a way….  There’s so many times I’d like to say that as well when I just really don’t know what to tell a person.  
 

But yeah it takes a bit of nerves on his part as well.  He’s able to get away with it though 

 

 

[StatisticalOutlier]

On 5/30/2024 at 10:00 PM, Cloud9Shopper said:

I am tired of having to clap for everyone else and hearing how perfect everyone else is and seeing them get jobs while I get passed over for silly reasons like this.

From reading your other posts, I gather that everyone else being perfect and getting jobs while you're passed over refers to people you "know" online.  If you think people lie on resumes, try checking out the internet.  No good has ever come from comparing oneself to people's presentation of themselves on the internet.  Ever. 

And people being people, and the internet being the internet, they'll never stop doing it.  Which means the only way to avoid it is to disconnect yourself from it because it's not going to change.  Or, actually, it might change, but I can guarantee you it won't be for the better. 

On 5/31/2024 at 5:29 AM, Cloud9Shopper said:

I got upset with someone last night outside of here who suggested I take a course in CNA or medical assisting.

Does this person even know you?  Never mind that this type of job apparently isn't suited for you, which should stop someone who knows you from suggesting it.  But CNA?  CNAs have the hardest job in the fucking world and make no money (funny how there's often a correlation there) and it's not a field where people swiftly (or even slowly) climb the ladder to true financial security. 

I can't remember if you're looking for remote work, but it has occurred to me that anyone who wants to work remotely is competing with every other person on the planet for any given job.  That's some stiff competition.

Back when people used to work where they lived, there was a balancing mechanism, where employers would hire the best person available.  Finding the perfect candidate was a crapshoot, given the pool available.  But that meant people who didn't tick every box could still be attractive to an employer if the candidate had sufficient background knowledge and appeared trainable. 

I'm thinking what you're experiencing is an unpleasant side-effect of "disrupting" the work force.  And as is usually the case in disruptions, a few people make out real well, but the rest?  Not so much.  And even the ones who make out well might make out well for only a while, before it comes back to bite them on the ass, too. 

[Yeah No]

11 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

From reading your other posts, I gather that everyone else being perfect and getting jobs while you're passed over refers to people you "know" online.  If you think people lie on resumes, try checking out the internet.  No good has ever come from comparing oneself to people's presentation of themselves on the internet.  Ever. 

And people being people, and the internet being the internet, they'll never stop doing it.  Which means the only way to avoid it is to disconnect yourself from it because it's not going to change.  Or, actually, it might change, but I can guarantee you it won't be for the better. 

I took it that she was referring to people she actually knew who posted on Linkedin that they got a certain job and added it to their profile.  Usually that's not a venue where people you know lie or gloat about getting fake jobs.  There's too much accountability there because people you may know at those companies can see what you post and you don't want to be caught lying about it by people in a position of hiring you.  I've been in that situation myself seeing my peers post there that they just got a certain job and a certain company and thought to myself, "Why wasn't that me?".  After a while that just sucks.

11 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

I can't remember if you're looking for remote work, but it has occurred to me that anyone who wants to work remotely is competing with every other person on the planet for any given job.  That's some stiff competition.

Back when people used to work where they lived, there was a balancing mechanism, where employers would hire the best person available.  Finding the perfect candidate was a crapshoot, given the pool available.  But that meant people who didn't tick every box could still be attractive to an employer if the candidate had sufficient background knowledge and appeared trainable. 

That's a good point which I've thought about myself, but it only underscores the difficulty of getting a job these days and while it explains it, it's little consolation if you're out there looking for a job.  In fact, it only makes it feel more impossible to get one, especially one you want.

[Cloud9Shopper]

9 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I took it that she was referring to people she actually knew who posted on Linkedin that they got a certain job and added it to their profile.  Usually that's not a venue where people you know lie or gloat about getting fake jobs.  There's too much accountability there because people you may know at those companies can see what you post and you don't want to be caught lying about it by people in a position of hiring you.  I've been in that situation myself seeing my peers post there that they just got a certain job and a certain company and thought to myself, "Why wasn't that me?".  After a while that just sucks.

That's a good point which I've thought about myself, but it only underscores the difficulty of getting a job these days and while it explains it, it's little consolation if you're out there looking for a job.  In fact, it only makes it feel more impossible to get one, especially one you want.

Yes it is either network connections or connections of my connections. So while I don’t know the people per se I do see others having success and feel bad that I can’t achieve what they can and wonder what my shortcomings are.

And getting a new job does feel just about impossible anymore. I don’t consider myself all that special but even on past job hunts I wasn’t hitting a wall as badly as I am now. I have tried so many different things to approach interviews better, to redo my resume, to try and write good cover letters…I feel like in past job markets this would have worked. But now it feels as if all my efforts to change are fruitless. 

[partofme]

23 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

I can't remember if you're looking for remote work, but it has occurred to me that anyone who wants to work remotely is competing with every other person on the planet for any given job.  That's some stiff competition.

Back when people used to work where they lived, there was a balancing mechanism, where employers would hire the best person available.  Finding the perfect candidate was a crapshoot, given the pool available.  But that meant people who didn't tick every box could still be attractive to an employer if the candidate had sufficient background knowledge and appeared trainable. 

I'm thinking what you're experiencing is an unpleasant side-effect of "disrupting" the work force.  And as is usually the case in disruptions, a few people make out real well, but the rest?  Not so much.  And even the ones who make out well might make out well for only a while, before it comes back to bite them on the ass, too. 

I know you weren’t addressing this to me, but I don’t think remote work is the problem.  As of next week it will be four months since I was laid off, and despite seeing a large number of employers that require employees work in the office at least 3 days a week, 8 out of 11 companies that I have interviewed with are fully remote.  I have a good resume that gets me a large number of phone screens and interviews, I’m just not getting the offers so it’s obviously me.  I’ve never liked interviewing so there’s that, though I prepare in advance and have a good idea by now what type of questions to expect, although there are always new questions that I haven’t been asked before.  There’s also my age, I am well on the wrong side of forty, though my colleague who helped me with my resume told me she thought I was fifteen years younger than I actually am, so I have no idea exactly how much of an impact my age plays.  Though this colleague is over a decade older than me and she got a new job two months after getting laid off and I think she’s getting frustrated with me for not getting a new job already, said it blows her mind because I have great recommendations from people I worked with.  I know I’m a great employee, but I think interviews are an artificial way of showing that.   What frustrates me on LinkedIn is when I see people who haven’t been laid off say they’ve landed the same type of job that I apply for if only I had the chance to interview for it.   Also when I see people starting new jobs at the company that laid me off in February.   
 

Also slightly different topic, but it’s now the law in New York that employers are required to list salary in job listings, which has been so helpful this time around in my job search, but I’ve noticed my old employer, the one that laid me off never lists the salary in their job listings, I don’t know how they’re getting away with this.  

Edited June 4 by partofme

[Cloud9Shopper]

I’m always thrown for a loop with some interview questions too. One employer asked me on the spot what my 30-60-90 plan would be for the position since they were looking to hire for that role for the first time ever. I had no idea how to answer that under such short notice; it felt like that would have been better saved for an assignment or case study.

The company did have other red flags so I’m glad in a way I wasn’t picked to move forward but it was a nightmare. 

[isalicat]

Interesting news segment I saw yesterday on TV that had a professional recruiter talking about how the only way to actually get hired for a job these days is through an internal, personal referral. Why? Because every job opening that is posted gets thousands (yes, thousands!) of applicant resumes and generally a bot is vetting those resumes, not a person, so if you don't have the right "key words" for the bot, you don't get an interview. And if you do get an interview, someone with a recommendation from someone who already works at the hiring company is generally always going to be much more highly preferred. So a lot of interviewing is pro forma, just to justify going ahead with the recommended person, not to seriously consider other candidates. The recruiter's strong advice was to find someone at a company for which you wish to work and get them to refer you to the hiring HR or manager person or your odds suck, even if you have all the right experience and qualifications.

[Yeah No]

6 hours ago, isalicat said:

Interesting news segment I saw yesterday on TV that had a professional recruiter talking about how the only way to actually get hired for a job these days is through an internal, personal referral. Why? Because every job opening that is posted gets thousands (yes, thousands!) of applicant resumes and generally a bot is vetting those resumes, not a person, so if you don't have the right "key words" for the bot, you don't get an interview. And if you do get an interview, someone with a recommendation from someone who already works at the hiring company is generally always going to be much more highly preferred. So a lot of interviewing is pro forma, just to justify going ahead with the recommended person, not to seriously consider other candidates. The recruiter's strong advice was to find someone at a company for which you wish to work and get them to refer you to the hiring HR or manager person or your odds suck, even if you have all the right experience and qualifications.

That doesn't surprise me although it sucks because even after close to 20 years of living in my area I didn't know many people that worked at any of the companies I applied to.  Most of them stayed within a small number of product companies and what I do I can do at any kind of company (and have).  And what if you're new to an area?  Yikes.  

I don't think most people have the kind of influential contacts at a company that would be sure to get them a job there.  The person would have to be at least on a certain level and the hiring manager would have to be impressed by them or know them pretty well in order for it to be the make-or-break factor that lands someone a job.  If it's just your friend in customer service, so what?  And people on lower levels at a company might not feel comfortable pushing a friend like that.  I guess it depends on the person.

My husband drove high level execs. at one big company I wanted to work for, and they both love me and we are friends to this day, but shied away from using their clout to help me get a job there.  They told me it was frowned upon at their company and I believe them because these people have more than proven themselves as believing in me and wanting to help both my husband and I out over the years. 

About 5 years ago I applied for a position at a small local university.  It turned out that the late father of one of the directors I supported at my former company was a beloved professor there for many years so his son recommended me to HR when I went for an interview there.  I got called back a few times but never got the job.  And I really thought I aced those interviews too.  I spent the first decade of my career working in college admissions at a similar but more respected school and had recommendations written by very high level administrators there who sung my praises to high heaven, too.  So that kind of thing isn't necessarily an ace in the hole if you're like me and have rotten luck, LOL.

I once got a job doing academic counseling at a small college and the director of the program told me I was chosen out of about 750 resumes that came to them through an ad they placed in the Chronicle of Higher Education (this was before the internet).  You'd think that would be a good thing but in my case (of course) it was the worst thing that could have ever happened to me career-wise.  I think I've vented my work spleen here about this before.  She turned out to be completely out of her mind and I left after 5 months of constant abuse.  The college didn't put up a fuss about it when I filed for unemployment benefits even though I quit.

Edited June 5 by Yeah No

[Cloud9Shopper]

I have had referrals to jobs as well that got me interviews but never turned into offers. All of the jobs I did get have been through cold applications and not having an inside connection.

This just feels like yet another way to blame applicants and tell them how they’re job hunting all wrong. So people who don’t have referrals don’t deserve jobs now? I’m supposed to stay stuck in customer service forever because no one will give me a coveted referral that will convince the hiring manager I’m the best? Maybe these recruiters actually need to start spending more than five seconds on resumes and actually respond to the people who message them. Quite honestly I’m sick of hearing that my problems on the job hunt are solely due to me and I’d be fine if only I had the right connections. I deserve so much better than the fate I’ve been handed.   

I saw a thread on Reddit yesterday about resume advice and I opened it thinking it would be something different than the same old resume advice. But yep all it was was “use numbers to show your accomplishments”, “tailor your resume to the job”…the same stuff everyone else says and job seekers have heard over and over.  

Hiring is broken and I’m not going to tolerate being attacked for having a hard time finding a job anymore. 

[Yeah No]

1 hour ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Hiring is broken and I’m not going to tolerate being attacked for having a hard time finding a job anymore. 

I don't blame you.  It seems to be getting more broken all the time.  It was almost that bad 3 years ago when I finally stopped looking.  Of course I was over 60 by that time so it was even worse.  Imagine your inability to get a job being blamed on something you can't do anything about?  You're screwed!

Thank God I was in a position to not have to temp or that would have been demoralizing for me.  I might have had to if my husband didn't get a great job 3 years ago making more than he ever did before.  And that was pure good fortune after he lost his limo. business due to the pandemic.  One of his rich clients gave him the job knowing that we were circling the drain (bless him!).  Even so I am watching my bank balance go down every month.  I'm collecting 2 small pensions and will collect Social Security in a little less than a year, plus I make a few hundred a month on Ebay selling my old clothes and stuff, and now my husband is collecting his Social Security while working so things are finally looking up for us. 

The phrase "It's always darkest before the dawn" has been going around in my head for the past few days and I think it fits here because every time I was at the end of my rope looking for a job something would happen like I'd finally get a job out of nowhere or something would change about my situation like it has for me recently.  The phrase "One door closes another one opens" also fits.  I know those sayings probably sound trite to you now and are no consolation but in retrospect I see how they've fit in my life in several situations.  I hope something like that happens for you soon.

Edited June 5 by Yeah No

[StatisticalOutlier]

3 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I saw a thread on Reddit yesterday about resume advice and I opened it thinking it would be something different than the same old resume advice.

It's never going to be anything different.

[Cloud9Shopper]

22 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I don't blame you.  It seems to be getting more broken all the time.  It was almost that bad 3 years ago when I finally stopped looking.  Of course I was over 60 by that time so it was even worse.  Imagine your inability to get a job being blamed on something you can't do anything about?  You're screwed!

Thank God I was in a position to not have to temp or that would have been demoralizing for me.  I might have had to if my husband didn't get a great job 3 years ago making more than he ever did before.  And that was pure good fortune after he lost his limo. business due to the pandemic.  One of his rich clients gave him the job knowing that we were circling the drain (bless him!).  Even so I am watching my bank balance go down every month.  I'm collecting 2 small pensions and will collect Social Security in a little less than a year, plus I make a few hundred a month on Ebay selling my old clothes and stuff, and now my husband is collecting his Social Security while working so things are finally looking up for us. 

The phrase "It's always darkest before the dawn" has been going around in my head for the past few days and I think it fits here because every time I was at the end of my rope looking for a job something would happen like I'd finally get a job out of nowhere or something would change about my situation like it has for me recently.  The phrase "One door closes another one opens" also fits.  I know those sayings probably sound trite to you now and are no consolation but in retrospect I see how they've fit in my life in several situations.  I hope something like that happens for you soon.

I’m really just hoping a change comes within the next 6-12 months, whether I get off the phones at my current job (through some sort of internal promotion) or a new job altogether. Generally, I know 2-3 years at a job is good enough for your resume and keeps you from being stagnant. I just don’t want to be here in, say, June 2026 with still no new job and still on the phone. I hope every day I’ll be one of the reps who is chosen for email/chat work that day, but even though my performance is solid (confirmed by my boss; I’m not just saying this) I almost always see other reps get picked to not take calls for their shifts. I’ve been asked in the past but it’s not happening lately even though I continue to do well.

I have kind of reached the point where I don’t want anymore resume advice or “here’s what you might be doing wrong in interviews” advice. There seems to just be too many applicants anymore and things that used to seem to give you an edge, like a good thank you note, don’t seem to matter. I’ve tried a lot of things suggested in advice articles or on Reddit threads or by a career coach and I still haven’t received an offer. I think what a lot of people don’t realize is that a lot of this stuff about job searching is out of a candidate’s control and there’s no one size fits all as to what every hiring manager wants and will like. 

[Yeah No]

1 hour ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I have kind of reached the point where I don’t want anymore resume advice or “here’s what you might be doing wrong in interviews” advice. There seems to just be too many applicants anymore and things that used to seem to give you an edge, like a good thank you note, don’t seem to matter. I’ve tried a lot of things suggested in advice articles or on Reddit threads or by a career coach and I still haven’t received an offer. I think what a lot of people don’t realize is that a lot of this stuff about job searching is out of a candidate’s control and there’s no one size fits all as to what every hiring manager wants and will like. 

That's so true. At the end of my job search I cringed at interview advice that still said to send a thank you note!   It's futile to try to psych. out what every hiring manager wants because they all want different things.  And unless someone in the know clues you in on what they want you just have to be lucky one day that everything aligns in your favor.  I don't know of any chat sites/threads where people offer advice on to get a job at a certain company.  I suppose people might not want to share that if they are that competitive but it might be some help, although again unless they talk about the specific manager involved it could be completely different with every one.

At times like this my mother used to tell me to go out and play the lottery because eventually the law of averages would have to produce a "win" for me.  I used to tell her I've had such bad luck the law of averages owes me a billion dollars by now!