The Taylor Swift Topic: Teen Country Sensation to World-Dominating Pop Star

[UYI]

We have a tracklist!

1. I Forgot That You Existed
2. Cruel Summer
3. Lover
4. The Man
5. The Archer
6.  I Think He Knows
7. Miss Americana & the Heartbreak Prince
8. Paper Rings
9. Cornelia Street
10. Death By a Thousand Cuts
11. London Boy
12. Soon You'll Get Better (feat. Dixie Chicks)
13. False God
14. You Need to Calm Down
15. Afterglow
16. ME! (feat. Brendon Urie)
17. It's Nice to Have a Friend
18. Daylight

[27bored]

“Lover” is...well, I’ll just say this: I don’t hate the song. It’s a little precious. And kinda corny. It’s more in her wheelhouse, but that might be the problem. I think people need to be clearer about what iteration of Taylor they miss. It’s one thing to miss Country pop Taylor, but I think we need to remember she’s a grown woman. Sounding girly is okay in small doses, but there’s a girliness that Taylor has that’s a little less appealing. If Pink has sang Lover I would like it just fine. On Taylor it’s just a shrug. 

And not to sound pessimistic, but judging by that track list this album is gonna be, well, not 1989.

[UYI]

I am so damn burnt out on 1989 and it songs that I'm legitimately not sure how long it will take me to be able to truly listen to a lot of it again (well, the singles mainly--except Shake It Off, because fuck that song, and I'll confess that I'm not as big a fan as "Blank Space" as most--I'll go hide now). Speak Now is her best album to me, though. Red would be without the three bigger singles.

But I think y'all knew that, and I know I'm probably in the minority. 🙂 

[UYI]

The music video for "Lover" is here.

[Bastet]

Hmm.  "Blank Space" is the only Taylor Swift song I've ever liked, and that's in an "I can't believe I like this song!" way, but I think I legit like "Lover".  Not the video, really, because there's something about her I find mildly annoying to watch.  But just listening to the song, yeah, I dig it.  But it kind of gets worse as it goes on, so I think I'll get sick of it if I hear it on the radio a lot.

[Cranberry]

Album is out. I've listened a couple of times, and the songs I like a lot are: Cruel Summer, Miss Americana and the Heartbreak Prince (can't say I immediately understand the allegory, but the cheerleaders are used really well in the bridge), Paper Rings (probably the catchiest song on the album), Cornelia Street, Death by a Thousand Cuts, False God, and Afterglow. Soon You'll Get Better is good but hard to listen to because it's so sad ("Desperate people find faith, so now I pray to Jesus too", "I know delusion when I see it in the mirror", "What am I supposed to do/If there's no you?" -- it sounds like her mother's prognosis is not good).

[truthaboutluv]

14 hours ago, Bastet said:

But just listening to the song, yeah, I dig it.  But it kind of gets worse as it goes on,

That's my feeling about it and to be honest, I feel like that sums up most of Taylor's more recent work. Also, it's been driving me crazy trying to nail what song the opening bars of Lover reminds me of. I want to say it's something off the Baz Luhrmann's Romeo & Juliet soundtrack or maybe PJ Harvey/Heather Nova. It struck me the moment I first heard the song but I still can't specifically nail it. 

Still listening to the album. And what's with the 18 songs? What is this, a rap album?

[UYI]

1 hour ago, truthaboutluv said:

Still listening to the album. And what's with the 18 songs? What is this, a rap album?

I've seen it mentioned in articles that the majority of successful albums on streaming services are longer ones, so it sounds like she's REALLY pushing for better streaming numbers, which is pretty ironic given how gung ho she was about "music should be paid for" after removing her music from Spotify for three years.

And honestly, I think that's part of the reason she's never done that well in streaming: it BLEW UP during those three years, and in some ways she's never recovered the ground she lost from removing it as a source for her music. She has decent streaming numbers, but by no means the best. 

Edited August 23, 2019 by UYI

[truthaboutluv]

So I've made it as far as track 12 I think. Whatever the reason, this 18 song track list was not a good idea. At least in my opinion. Others may disagree. This feels like a lot of filler and I'm sorry, I continue to feel like she's regressing as a songwriter/producers versus getting better. 

By Track 7 or 8, they'd sort of all started blending together for me. I did like Soon You'll Get Better and yeah, does not sound great if as many assume it's about her mom. And for that I feel for her because my mom is like my everything too. I do wish the Dixie Chicks were more prominent on the track because I just love these women's voices. 

But yeah, can't see myself downloading this album. At best maybe two or three songs but that's about it. Also, someone really needs to let Taylor know that saying how much you're over something and don't care for the millionth time is NOT being over it and not caring. Girl after Reputation, let the damn Kanye/Kim related shit go. To open the album with a song saying how much you stopped caring while STILL obviously caring. I mean really?

Edited August 23, 2019 by truthaboutluv

[BuyMoreAndSave]

I'm still getting used to the new album. I don't think I'll ever love it as much as Reputation. It's a little too cutesy for my taste. Plus I'm not a huge fan of the super minimalist production on music that has become popular the last few years.

I do love: Cruel Summer (probably my favorite on the album), Miss Americana and the Heartbreak Prince (it reminds me a little of So It Goes, which was one of my favorites off Reputation), Death by a Thousand Cuts, and False God. I even like It's Nice to Have a Friend...I know a lot of people didn't like it, but whatever, it warmed my cold, dead heart 🙂

I also feel like the lyrics are really good on this album. I like that she's exploring some new things, like more songs where she admits her faults, and songs where it's like "even though we had a really bad fight, I know we're going to stay together, so let's work it out." I think there aren't as many realistic love songs like that out there in the pop landscape. I've been with my husband almost my entire adult life so I relate to those kind of songs a lot more than the "yay everything is perfect!" or the "f you, you broke my heart" kind of songs.

Also, I feel like it's very clear that the reason why she never talked about politics in the past is because her old record label forbade it. The second she was out of that contract, she got political.

[Silver Raven]

Ugh.  She's whining again.  "The Man" is about how her career would have been different if she were a man.  This constant whining is why I dislike her so much.

[truthaboutluv]

7 hours ago, BuyMoreAndSave said:

Also, I feel like it's very clear that the reason why she never talked about politics in the past is because her old record label forbade it. The second she was out of that contract, she got political.

Actually she just said in a recent interview that the reason she didn't speak up during the 2016 elections is because with everything she was going through - her mom's cancer returning, the Kim/Kanye saga, still dealing with the backlash from the Hiddleston disaster - she made the decision that it was best for her mental health.

In other words, the way I interpreted it, she didn't want to deal with whatever backlash and hate that would come with her sticking her neck out politically, with everything else she was already dealing with at the time.

Personally I think Taylor is wading in politics now because as I said before, I figure she's weighed the pros and cons and decided that whatever fans she may lose or be upset with her opinions, she'll make up for it with the new fans who will embrace SJW Taylor. And also, if she is wading in the political waters, I wonder if she'll ever address that little snafu that exposed her dad for his decidedly different political leanings. 

Edited August 24, 2019 by truthaboutluv

[UYI]

45 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

Actually she just said in a recent interview that the reason she didn't speak up during the 2016

Personally I think Taylor is wading in politics now because as I said before, I figure she's weighed the pros and cons and decided that whatever fans she may lose or be upset with her opinions, she'll make up for it with the new fans who will embrace SJW Taylor. And also, if she is wading in the political waters, I wonder if she'll ever address that little snafu that exposed her dad for his decidedly different political leanings. 

She was also concerned her celebrity background/perceived similarities to a certain candidate (three guesses who) would only hurt things, too.

Her dad wound up deactivating his Facebook account (probably at the behest of his very pissed off daughter after a very tense phone call, lol) shortly after screenshots of his page were shared last week, despite the fact that his page was public for YEARS--which given his daughter's very public image/calculated streak, is pretty fucking wild. I know he's her dad, but how on EARTH did he do that for so long without any indication from her team that this might not be a good idea? (It's not exactly shocking, though. He's a wealthy white man who was born in Bryn Mawr, PA--located on the Philadelphia Main Line, suburban Philly's richest area--and then raised his family in Reading, PA after that. That completely tracks with the stuff on his FB page.) 

Edited August 23, 2019 by UYI

[UYI]

I finally finished listening to the entire album, and...I don't know, man. There are some really good songs here, but I'm going to need a few more listens before I come CLOSE to knowing how I feel about it overall. I didn't have NEARLY the same issue with her other albums after my first listen (okay, Reputation to a point I felt this way, too). 

[BuyMoreAndSave]

3 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

Actually she just said in a recent interview that the reason she didn't speak up during the 2016 elections is because with everything she was going through - her mom's cancer returning, the Kim/Kanye saga, still dealing with the backlash from the Hiddleston disaster - she made the decision that was best for mental health.

In other words, the way I interpreted it, she didn't want to deal with whatever backlash and hate that would come with her sticking her neck out politically, with everything else she was already dealing with at the time.

Personally I think Taylor is wading in politics now because as I said before, I figure she's weighed the pros and cons and decided that whatever fans she may lose or be upset with her opinions, she'll make up for it with the new fans who will embrace SJW Taylor. And also, if she is wading in the political waters, I wonder if she'll ever address that little snafu that exposed her dad for his decidedly different political leanings. 

I never really blamed her for staying out of it. I mean, she has stalkers regularly trying to break into her home and harm her just in general, just because she's a celebrity. She's putting herself at risk a lot more than the average person. That goes for any celebrity who speaks out. But she in particular seems to be a huge target for stalkers and creeps. I also don't think anyone is obligated to express their opinion on anything -- we have a secret ballot for a reason.

Also, why are her dad's politics relevant? What do people want her to do, cut off contact with her dad because he supports the other side?

Edited August 24, 2019 by BuyMoreAndSave

[truthaboutluv]

3 hours ago, BuyMoreAndSave said:

I also don't think anyone is obligated to express their opinion on anything

Completely agree and I've stated that in this thread regarding Taylor. I don't need any celebrity to declare their political leanings. If they want to, great. If they don't, that's fine too. As for her dad, no I'm not advocating the girl disown her father.

It was merely an observation that it is interesting as she's putting herself out there so publicly on social and political issues, this social media mishap happens that exposes her dad as the complete antithesis of the political agenda she's supporting.

So it was merely a bemused observation of wondering how she will maneuver around that awkwardness. I'm sure she'll find a way. Not to mention it doesn't seem like the story about her dad's Facebook gained much traction. 

Edited August 24, 2019 by truthaboutluv

[Pickles Aplenty]

Why does Taylor do that thing where she speaks the final word of a line, instead of singing it?  I'm thinking of I Forgot You Existed, here.  Is it because she can't sing, that well?

Taylor, stop it, it isn't cute.

Edited August 24, 2019 by Billina

[BuyMoreAndSave]

5 minutes ago, Billina said:

Why does Taylor do that thing where she speaks the final word of a line, instead of singing it?  I'm thinking of I Forgot You Existed, here.  Is it because she can't sing, that well?

Taylor, stop it, it isn't cute.

She can definitely sing well (see: the Reputation Tour performance of Don't Blame Me). I don't know why she does that but it really annoys me too.

[UYI]

9 hours ago, Billina said:

Why does Taylor do that thing where she speaks the final word of a line, instead of singing it?  I'm thinking of I Forgot You Existed, here.  Is it because she can't sing, that well?

Taylor, stop it, it isn't cute.

She's improved some, I guess, but she is someone who does best when she stays within her limited (VERY limited) range. Because when she tries to go outside of it...oh dear. (Not to beat a dead horse, but her performance of "Rhiannon" with Stevie Nicks at the Grammys in 2010...an eternal YIKES for that one.)

[Pickles Aplenty]

I tried to get through this album, but I couldn't.

I think Taylor has become one of those artists that just recycles the same themes and gimmicks with every album.  And I never thought she was all that original to begin with, but every time I try to listen to her, I'm reminded of how I'm really not a fan, even though I can name a few songs of hers that I like.

Why do I feel like I need to keep listening, to her?  Is it because she is one of the biggest pop stars in the world right now, and I'm trying to understand what makes her so huge?  Is it because everyone writes about her like she is some enigma?

Well, I'm well past the age of her fans, and I realized I don't have to give her a chance, or listen to her, if I don't want to. Life is too short.  And that's not to say this album is bad, because it isn't.  It's just a Taylor Swift album.  I've heard it, before.

Now I'm going to take my old ass elsewhere, and listen to Stone Temple Pilots, or something.  Thanks for listening to me whine, lol.

[WendyCR72]

4 minutes ago, Billina said:

Now I'm going to take my old ass elsewhere, and listen to Stone Temple Pilots, or something. 

Now you're talkin'!  😉

[UYI]

19 minutes ago, Billina said:

I tried to get through this album, but I couldn't.

I think Taylor has become one of those artists that just recycles the same themes and gimmicks with every album.  And I never thought she was all that original to begin with, but every time I try to listen to her, I'm reminded of how I'm really not a fan, even though I can name a few songs of hers that I like.

Why do I feel like I need to keep listening, to her?  Is it because she is one of the biggest pop stars in the world right now, and I'm trying to understand what makes her so huge?  Is it because everyone writes about her like she is some enigma?

Well, I'm well past the age of her fans, and I realized I don't have to give her a chance, or listen to her, if I don't want to. Life is too short.  And that's not to say this album is bad, because it isn't.  It's just a Taylor Swift album.  I've heard it, before.

Now I'm going to take my old ass elsewhere, and listen to Stone Temple Pilots, or something.  Thanks for listening to me whine, lol.

If it makes any difference, I'm 30--the exact same age as she is. (Not as pretty, though. 😢 )

I listen to old and new, rock, country, and pop. I probably talk too much about it all, lol.

[Cranberry]

I really like 8 songs from the new album and I think 7 more are fine -- those 7 aren't songs I'll add to my general playlist and listen to all the time, but I wouldn't skip them if they came up in a random playlist. I detest London Boy and think all the criticism online is spot on (see this and this). I'm sick of Me!, and I Think He Knows is forgettable. But really liking 8/18 (and liking 15/18 well enough) is not bad.

I think she did a great job with bridges on this album. Daylight's bridge is gorgeous, and Cruel Summer's bridge gets stuck in my head. Miss Americana's bridge is clever, with the lyrics built around cheerleaders doing the "Go Fight Win" cheer. I also like the parallel pre-choruses in False God ("I'm New York City"/"You're the West Village"), and the religion metaphor there is well done. I think it's a pretty strong album lyrically, aside from the first two singles (and London Boy, bleh).

[UYI]

Fun fact: She almost named the album Daylight instead of Lover. 

[UYI]

A very good interview from today's CBS Sunday Morning.

[BuyMoreAndSave]

On 8/24/2019 at 4:01 PM, Billina said:

Now I'm going to take my old ass elsewhere, and listen to Stone Temple Pilots, or something.  Thanks for listening to me whine, lol.

LOL I was just listening to them earlier!

I think people make Taylor Swift's music out to be deeper than it is. It's just catchy, polished, aesthetically pleasing pop music with better than average lyrics.

[Pickles Aplenty]

On 8/24/2019 at 6:44 PM, UYI said:

Fun fact: She almost named the album Daylight instead of Lover. 

She should have.  Lover is a stupid title.

Edited August 28, 2019 by Billina

[UYI]

Mark Grondin of Spectrum Pulse's album review of Lover.

[Cranberry]

I like this cover.

[methodwriter85]

I'm actually really feeling "Daylight" right now.

This feels like Reputation mixed with 1989.

Edited September 5, 2019 by methodwriter85

[pinkandsparkly13]

I like the Lover album so far. And I just love Taylor's music. I always have. She always seems to write the soundtrack to my life. I can relate to so many songs every time a new album comes out. They are things that I experienced in the year or 2 prior. It's crazy. Ha I like Lover and False God and Cruel Summer and Miss Americana. Those are the ones I've listened to the most. Those seem to be a lot of people's favorites too. Well maybe not Lover. I also like I Think He Knows and Paper Rings.

It's interesting though, I read a few articles and reviews for the album ranking the songs, and Miss Americana is low on most of them. Yet most people really like it. Maybe because it is one of the catchier songs that get your attention first. I need to listen to the other songs more to see. I haven't thought much of It's Nice to Have a Friend or Cornelia Street or Daylight, or Soon You'll Get Better. I hate ME! Though. 

[aradia22]

I'm ready. Let's do this...

I Forgot That You Existed: I like it. It's a blend of the old Taylor who was shady on the down low and the Reputation era Taylor who had her sass and pettiness fully exposed. This is somewhere in the middle with the new light sound. I like the light groove. I'm not saying there are really sick burns but there are some nice lyrics here and there. The verse around the 1 minute mark is a little weaker. Specific but in a weird way. That one verse brings it down but otherwise, I really like it. B+

Cruel Summer: Weird lyrics. Mix of the sound on 1989 and Reputation. Dreamy with a bit of propulsion. Didn't need to look it up to know it was Antonoff. It's got his fingerprints all over it. There are better songs that sound like this and that have the title Cruel Summer. It's a fine background song but mush when you listen closely. B-

Lover: A classic sound. I don't think it's a smart decision to have her exposed weak vocals in the high part of her range mixed with this heavy production. The beat is too heavy. This would sound so much better as a simple acoustic guitar country ballad. This way it sounds both sleepy and oppressive. It was a bad choice to try and thread the needle. Leighton Meester and others do the dreamy thing better. And there are obviously better country ballads. They should have committed to one choice. Some nice, specific lyrics though. B/B- as a song, C for the version on the album. It's really unpleasant to listen to with headphones.

The Man: I like it. It's no Kesha or Lily Allen song but it feels like a sentiment that Katy Perry would fall on her face trying to convey. It's like Jessie J's Do It Like a Dude or Beyonce's If I Were a Boy but less sloppy. I'm really glad she wrote this one. She preserves her style and brings it with the lyrics. "I'd be just like Leo in Saint Tropez" is KILLER. A-

The Archer: Captures the dreamy vibe better than Lover. I think it's still not quite to my taste. The balance is off. Sleepy with that beat that's just a little too heavy. Antonoff! *shakes fist* Maybe it'll grow on me but it sounds like background music to me. B-

I Think He Knows: Fun groove. Mildly problematic but I love it. I know some people have snarky opinions about whether Taylor can pull off sexy but this song feels so joyful and fun and truthful. I like Taylor's genuine love songs that capture all that infatuation. This is so much better than Lover to me. A

Miss Americana & The Heartbreak Prince: Weak Lana del Rey rip-off. This sounds like a song commissioned for a movie. It's fine. It just feels like a song she should have handed off to someone else. B as a song. B- as a Taylor song. With her voice and the production it's a little too flat and anonymous.

Paper Rings: Whoa. Pop song. She doesn't really have the big voice for this sort of Neon Trees song. Antonoff doesn't know how to enhance vocals to match the big sound he thinks he's producing. That's why the songs end up sounding empty and hollow and soulless in a way that, for example, Gwen Stefani songs don't. B+ as a Neon Trees song. B- as a Taylor song.

Cornelia Street: Keep repeating myself but this album doesn't sound that different from 1989 and Reputation. Pleasant but it doesn't register much. B

Death By a Thousand Cuts: It could have used a second draft. There are a lot of good ideas but it's a little sloppy. Too many ideas. B

London Boy: Meh. This is a bit corny. Estelle's American Boy is superior. All the details just make this one corny. It's like "Welcome to New York." Cute enough. The problem is there's no irony so it's just a bit cringey. B/B-

Soon You'll Get Better: An old school Taylor guitar song. I wasn't expecting the subject matter when I heard about the Dixie Chicks collab. Really pretty and heartfelt. It's a moment when her vocals really work and the production finally backs off. B+

False God: Really smooth. Wasn't expecting the sax. Hard to follow the lyrics on the first pass. It'll probably grow on me but after the rest of the album, I can't focus on this one. B

You Need to Calm Down: It's grown on me. I do think this would be better handed off to someone with a bigger voice and with a producer who could give it the kind of production that would make the song fun and joyous. The way the ends of the lines ascend it feels like false levity. Like a robot is manipulating Taylor's vocals which are otherwise rather flat. B+

Afterglow: The production is almost not too much. Taylor fully sounds like a robot but I really like the song. This one is definitely going to grow on me. B+

ME!: This is a Meghan Trainor song in the style of 1989 Taylor. The lyrics are pretty decent. It needs a different production style to make it sound genuinely joyous and fun. Antonoff songs always sound like a corporation is trying to force you to be happy. B/B- My rating shifts. If I had to listen to it on the radio all the time, it would grate and be a B-. When I haven't heard it in a while, the good parts stand out and it's a B.

It's Nice to Have a Friend: The plinky plonky background strumming is very annoying with the meter of the song. Without it, the "melody" is way too simple. But I can't help wishing for more of a Lenka or Priscilla Ahn vibe. I can't focus. The lyrics are decent but this song is making all the wrong choices and it ends up being irritating and like Lover, borderline unlistenable through headphones. C+

Daylight: That groove is so familiar from 1989 and Reputation. Good song but it's going to need to grow on me as I start to fully absorb the lyrics. The lyrics don't have a clear trajectory so it becomes a more atmospheric song. It's not that different from Delicate or the 1989 love songs but it doesn't have that propulsive energy. And unlike Kesha or Gaga, Taylor doesn't really go into other genres in a way that open this song up so it just stays in one place and sounds like mood music. B

Overall, it's decent. A lot of lesser tracks. I wish Taylor would take a break from Antonoff. Pared down, this could be an amazing EP but Taylor Swift isn't an EP artist. I don't think the whole album makes a major statement but I really enjoyed some of the songs. 

[aradia22]

Quote

So I've made it as far as track 12 I think. Whatever the reason, this 18 song track list was not a good idea. At least in my opinion. Others may disagree. This feels like a lot of filler and I'm sorry, I continue to feel like she's regressing as a songwriter/producers versus getting better. 

As someone who listens to albums from start to finish before they go on my playlists, I feel like there's a unspoken understanding. Like, unless you release EPs, most artists are going to release these bloated albums with filler tracks and you're not going to know which ones they are. And sure, some people stan the less popular songs. But if we're all being honest, there are at least 5 tracks on every album with 15 or more tracks that could easily go. At least these days. 

[TheGreenKnight]

The only songs I enjoyed from this were "Cruel Summer," "Death by a Thousand Cuts," "The Man," "It's Nice to Have a Friend," "Soon You'll Get Better," and the three singles. This album is much better than reputation, but 1989 is so far the only good, pop album she's put out. I'd put her first three country albums above this, definitely.

Anyone have the feeling she'll go back to country next album? I knew it wouldn't happen with the album after reputation because that would look like she was running away considering how much bad press she was getting then, but after three pop albums, I can see her going back and play it off as having missed the genre rather than realizing pop isn't going to work much longer for her.

[aradia22]

It took a bit to warm up to it but in hindsight, I like reputation about as much as Red (similar number of songs, I mean). "I Did Something Bad," "Delicate," "Gorgeous," and "This is Why We Can't Have Nice Things" are solid pop songs and I have affection for some of the others even if I wouldn't rank them among my favorites. 

@TheGreenKnight I do feel like the next album could trend more country/singer-songwriter. Her early stuff was never that country anyway. Taylor is no Sara Bareilles but I feel like she's a good model. Sara can write a killer pop song but a lot of her albums are balanced out with more of the singer-songwriter stuff from her first albums. To me Kaleidoscope Heart is the perfect balance. The Blessed Unrest is a lot more of the quieter singer-songwriter stuff, even in the pop songs. And Amidst the Chaos is too much. It'll grow on me but it's too far away from pop for me. I'm cool with her doing what she wants but it's the kind of thing where if I was still buying music instead of streaming, I would never buy the album. Taylor was doing great with light pop for a while but it's not sounding as good and from some of the tracks, I wouldn't be surprised if she goes back to a more country pop or singer-songwriter pop (e.g. Colbie Caillat) sound. 

That said, she seems pretty devoted to Antonoff and she seems pretty stubborn so who knows? She might give it one more album and if that one gets a positive response, she might stick with pop. I really didn't think of the 1989 songs as bangers but compared to the Lover tracks, they are. And I don't think Taylor is built for Leighton Meester style dreamy ambient pop. The production is crushing her. If she's going to stick with Antonoff, she needs to go back towards 1989. I'd prefer if she found a different producer. 

[UYI]

I honestly can't ever really see her going back to country full time, not even pop country, and not even with the songs she gave Little Big Town and Sugarland. I CAN, however, see her going into a folk-pop/rock lane similar to artists like Carole King, Carly Simon, Joni Mitchell, and Judy Collins. Then again, she defines the mainstream for pop music SO much at this point that I'm not sure how easy even that transition would be.

I do love how fast she dropped the lyric "Hey, kids!/Spelling is fun!" from the album version of "ME!" Clearly someone had some buyer's remorse on THAT one, LMAO. 😄 

Her newest Rolling Stone interview was released the other day. One of the more in-depth interviews she's given in quite some time.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/taylor-swift-rolling-stone-interview-880794/

[27bored]

So Taylor was alleging that Big Machine was stopping her from performing her songs on the upcoming AMAs and also using her songs in a Netflix doc. Well, I knew upfront the first part was bullshit as they couldn’t stop her from performing those songs even if they wanted to. The Netflix doc is different as Taylor’s people went to the NYT and gave them emails saying Big Machine wouldn’t allow the use of those songs. So yeah, round two.

I will say, I don't like Taylor playing the "those mean old boys are picking on me" Girl Card yet again. Why can't Taylor just be righteous in her argument? Why does she have to incorporate the sexism subtext? That's what makes her seem like she's kinda full of it. I hate how normal it's become for celebrities to play identity politics whenever they don't get their way.

Edited to reduce text wall and confusion.

Edited November 17, 2019 by 27bored

[shantown]

It was a little hard to follow your arguments because the same paragraphs repeated in different orders, but I find it hard to believe if Taylor had a clear-cut opportunity to buy her masters that she wouldn't have taken it. 

[Cranberry]

This article is a good roundup: https://www.vulture.com/2019/11/taylor-swift-scooter-braun-and-borchetta-feud-explained.html

[27bored]

1 hour ago, Cranberry said:

This article is a good roundup: https://www.vulture.com/2019/11/taylor-swift-scooter-braun-and-borchetta-feud-explained.html

This is like a contest between Tom Petty and Petti Labelle.

On one hand, I don't understand why Taylor cares this much about her back catalog that she has to go rerecord six albums worth of material. With JoJo -- whom the artist mentions -- basically her whole career has been ruined because she was signed to a label who shelved her and it's taken her virtually a decade to release commercial music. Taylor will still get paid royalties and have her say in how those songs are used even if she doesn't rerecord her back catalog. Plus, she's rich as hell. The thing about them stopping her from performing on the AMAs is a little different, and I think she should be able to do that, but I don't know why she needs to rerecord her back catalog and I don't even know why she's telegraphed that that's what she wants to do.

On the other hand, Scotts Borchetta and Braun are obviously ticked at her and are doing this just to spite her. I think they're pretty pissed at her siccing her fans on them earlier this year, and now she's back at it. I'm not saying that the way they're going about it is right, but instead of being professional about it, she decided to pick a fight over it. Publicly.

[27bored]

Scooter Braun says he’s been getting death threats and whatnot as a result of Taylor siccing her fans on him. They have also doxxed him and Scott Borchetta. 
 

How do we feel about this? As weird as it may sound, I’m halfway thinking Taylor didn’t want all that. I think she wanted them to succumb to public pressure and do what she wanted, not be in any danger. That said, for someone who plays the Girl Card all the time, imagine a man telling his fans to go harass a woman he had a legal/professional falling out with like this. Think people would so sanguine about it?

[shantown]

Scooter made his own choices and they were bad ones. No one deserves death threats, but him trying to write these monologues on instagram or wherever about how he's an innocent angel are beyond ridiculous.

[Cranberry]

Show me a celebrity who doesn't receive a death threat every other week and maybe I'll feel bad for this rich guy.

[UYI]

For what it's worth, she IS performing her greatest hits medley now at the AMAs, so that's officially on again for tomorrow night. No idea what's going on with this Netflix documentary, though. 

Some of you might find this interesting: Shallon Lester is a former editor for Star magazine, and she now makes videos as a way to give advice to women on life, relationships, etc. using real life celebrity stories/gossip as a way to illustrate her points. She just recently released this video on Taylor, as well as on Selena Gomez and Camila Cabello (two of Taylor's better known supposed celebrity BFFs, of course). Grain of salt and all that, of course, especially on Selena (who Shallon DESPISES), but there was stuff I found interesting in here, especially on Taylor. I adore Shallon; she's done other videos on Taylor, too, if you're interested. 🙂

[shantown]

Does the person making this video actually know Taylor? I'm not clicking on the video so no idea what examples are used, but I'd imagine you could cherry-pick public photos or appearances to build any narrative you wanted.

[UYI]

31 minutes ago, shantown said:

Does the person making this video actually know Taylor? I'm not clicking on the video so no idea what examples are used, but I'd imagine you could cherry-pick public photos or appearances to build any narrative you wanted.

She's met her before at least once, yes, maybe more than that (and in fairness, she's said she's lovely in person--but obviously a casual encounter at an event isn't always the same as how a person acts from day to day) . There are other videos where she's mentioned this if you're interested, and having been in entertainment journalism*, there are several people over the years who have served as sources for stories, on both Taylor and other celebrities. I was just trying to provide some other/fun stuff that hadn't been really discussed here much, that's all. Always trying to help and stuff. 🙂 

*Meaning Shallon, not me--I'm just a nameless rando like everyone else here! 😄 

Edited November 23, 2019 by UYI

[UYI]

I will say this:

I find it very interesting that Shania Twain is also performing tomorrow night at the AMAs, because for all intents and purposes, she started what Taylor finished in terms of crossover success. She essentially walked so Taylor could run, and in many ways she is still probably Taylor's biggest musical influence. I can totally see Taylor dancing to her tomorrow night the way she most likely did in her bedroom while growing up in Reading, Pennsylvania, lol. (Speaking of which, I've seen her childhood home in person--it used to be brown or tan brick, now it's white with black shutters, complete with crescent moons on the latter, which is pretty fitting given who grew up there, haha). 

Edited November 24, 2019 by UYI

[27bored]

On 11/22/2019 at 5:45 PM, shantown said:

Scooter made his own choices and they were bad ones. No one deserves death threats, but him trying to write these monologues on instagram or wherever about how he's an innocent angel are beyond ridiculous.

Exactly what did Scooter do to Taylor?

On 11/23/2019 at 1:31 AM, Cranberry said:

Show me a celebrity who doesn't receive a death threat every other week and maybe I'll feel bad for this rich guy.

I agree, but that makes me double down on my point: if the roles were reversed, would we just shrug it off if a man sicced his fans on a woman an subsequently she received death threats?

[Cranberry]

I don't think a celebrity (of any gender) is at fault when they tell their fans, "Let these guys know you want them to allow me to perform my songs" and one or two fans take that to mean, "Send these guys death threats," no.

[27bored]

4 hours ago, Cranberry said:

I don't think a celebrity (of any gender) is at fault when they tell their fans, "Let these guys know you want them to allow me to perform my songs" and one or two fans take that to mean, "Send these guys death threats," no.

Eh, they kinda are. Not in a criminally negligent way, but Taylor has been at this whole public figure thing for awhile. I’m sure she’s dealt with crazy people and the need for security. Maybe a newer artist wouldn’t, but Taylor knows better. You don’t  tell your legion of impressionable fans to go tell the mean white men to stop being mean to you. You’re just asking for smoke at that point. 
 

But that’s still kinda not what I’m saying. Had this been a man directing his fans to give Taylor or any woman a piece of their mind, what you said would still apply, but it wouldn’t be treated that way. More than a few people would say that constitutes a line being crossed. Shoot, there were people saying Scott Borchetta was being spiteful and petty when he responded to Taylor’s Tumblr rant a few months ago.

Edited November 25, 2019 by 27bored