Lorelai and Luke

[tarotx]

Lorelai asks Rory, what about Luke at the end of episode 2 so there were direct hints that early. But Lorelai was into all cleaned up Luke of the end of the pilot.

There is also the scene in Emily in Wonderland, Luke and Lorelai are in the storage room and Lorelai asks Luke if there was going to redate Rachel and if she's ready why not take the plunge. and if there some reason not to take that plunge. Lorelai loved Luke and was interested in Luke. throughout season 1. But Luke chose Rachel leaving Lorelai with Max and Chris. Of the two Lorelai choose Max because he was ready. Then Christopher seems ready but was taken but then maybe wasn't but then he had to be taken because of Sherry's pregnancy. Chris chooses Sherry even though he wants Lorelai. 

In 6.22 Lorelai tells Carolyn that she never loved anyone until Luke so it's not really just a revival thing.

[marineg]

Saying that you are in love with someone and not acting on it because you're afraid it would ruin the friendship is the biggest fib there ever was. Either you don't love them or you don't have the courage to come out and say it.

And yes, Lorelai showed signs that she was attracted to Luke at times. And beginning with the first episode when Luke went to the bank and Lorelai compliments him and looks at him with "attraction eyes". But ASP would have her crazy for Luke one episode and the next be completely crazy about Max or Chris or Jason or Alex or whoever. I get that maybe when Rory was growing up, she didn't want to get out there much and protect her kid and herself (although there are conversations between Rory and Lorelai that suggest she did date...). But when it comes to Luke, she knew he loved her. Everybody told her. It wasn't going to ruin any friendship. He wasn't her friend. He wanted her. That's it. It was the longest seduction game there has ever been but that's what it was. Every single time they were together, Luke tried to flirt and seduce. Lorelai knew it. Everyone knew it. She never acted on it.

[elang4]

6 minutes ago, marineg said:

Saying that you are in love with someone and not acting on it because you're afraid it would ruin the friendship is the biggest fib there ever was. Either you don't love them or you don't have the courage to come out and say it.

And yes, Lorelai showed signs that she was attracted to Luke at times. And beginning with the first episode when Luke went to the bank and Lorelai compliments him and looks at him with "attraction eyes". But ASP would have her crazy for Luke one episode and the next be completely crazy about Max or Chris or Jason or Alex or whoever. I get that maybe when Rory was growing up, she didn't want to get out there much and protect her kid and herself (although there are conversations between Rory and Lorelai that suggest she did date...). But when it comes to Luke, she knew he loved her. Everybody told her. It wasn't going to ruin any friendship. He wasn't her friend. He wanted her. That's it. It was the longest seduction game there has ever been but that's what it was. Every single time they were together, Luke tried to flirt and seduce. Lorelai knew it. Everyone knew it. She never acted on it.

I don’t really agree with that. Luke and Lorelai were good friends and as she said in season 2, he’s one of the few constants in her life. I can totally believe that she wouldn’t want to jeopardise that.

[clack]

I hated the drama that the writers contrived whenever they wanted to drive a (temporary) wedge in Luke and Lorelai's relationship -- i.e. the argument over Jess, or over April. Instead, they might have dug deeper into their character's psychology and come up with more organic motivations.

For example : Luke is in love with Lorelai, and one of the symptoms of being in love is that you're happy when you're with your loved one, and miss them when you're not. Being in a platonic friendship is thus acceptable for Luke, and maybe even preferable -- he gets to regularly be with the woman he loves under controlled circumstances without risking the greater intimacy or the loss of independence that a requited love would involve. 

But, when after years of being single, Lorelai begins getting involved with serious relationships, Luke becomes jealous and filled with regret. He decides, for his own emotional health,to cool the friendship.

Max or Digger, meanwhile, have their own jealousies and insecurities and wish Lorelai would spend less time with Luke. Perhaps Lorelai is thus secretly relieved that her friendship with Luke has cooled.

Now, the show has a L/L estrangement that is grounded in their characters' motives, rather than dumb, implausible misunderstandings and miscommunications.

[FictionLover]

44 minutes ago, marineg said:

Saying that you are in love with someone and not acting on it because you're afraid it would ruin the friendship is the biggest fib there ever was. Either you don't love them or you don't have the courage to come out and say it.

And yes, Lorelai showed signs that she was attracted to Luke at times. And beginning with the first episode when Luke went to the bank and Lorelai compliments him and looks at him with "attraction eyes". But ASP would have her crazy for Luke one episode and the next be completely crazy about Max or Chris or Jason or Alex or whoever. I get that maybe when Rory was growing up, she didn't want to get out there much and protect her kid and herself (although there are conversations between Rory and Lorelai that suggest she did date...). But when it comes to Luke, she knew he loved her. Everybody told her. It wasn't going to ruin any friendship. He wasn't her friend. He wanted her. That's it. It was the longest seduction game there has ever been but that's what it was. Every single time they were together, Luke tried to flirt and seduce. Lorelai knew it. Everyone knew it. She never acted on it.

Season one was a different Luke, by the end of the season he was developed into the character we knew for the rest of the series. He did flirt a little in season one but I never saw him try to seduce her.

[stan4]

I hate how cowed and nervous Luke is when Emily is rude to him.

I never understood that behavior.  Even when I was 20 (let alone 40).

Your inlaws, etc, are just people.  If they are aholes, no reason you have to put up with it.

[clack]

If, rather than being an ensemble character in a comedy/light drama, Luke had been the protagonist in a movie drama, we would perceive him as a guy in deep trouble:

A man pushing 40, irascible and deeply conservative in his habits, runs a small town diner. His daily life consists of working long hours, and then going to the small apartment he has on top of his diner and watching ball games on TV. His only real friend is a woman with whom he is secretly in love.

This is a guy on the verge of becoming a tragic figure.

[junienmomo]

Lorelai and Luke both knew about the mutual attraction. The townspeople reminded them. Sookie reminded Lorelai. 

Lorelai, a supposed independent woman, gave Luke a direct opening exactly once, after poker at Double Date. Every other potential moment, she backed down verbally or ran off literally.  Except for dog in the manger jealousy, she preferred to be dating, and not dating Luke. 

Luke, a guy who had women lusting after him and Rachel returning multiple times to rekindle their relationship, barely took action and when he did he let Lorelai take the lead on the response. And she didn’t respond positively.

My conclusion in the early seasons is that Lorelai didn’t want to, and Luke sensed that and let her lead. Loved bracebridge’s description of their relationship several posts ago. They have this intimacy but never go further.

At the series start, I have the feeling that Lorelai finally accepts that Rory will be leaving and was ready to date, but Luke wasn’t dating material, he was serious relationship. And she wasn’t ready for that.

Then along came Max, who pushed her further than she was willing to go, proving that she wasn’t ready.

Before we know it there was Jess and Christopher and the accident. Lorelai saw that Luke put Jess at the same level he put her and Rory. She didn’t like that, but it wasn’t really important because of other dating and Christopher. 

I am convinced that the Mimi moment was the point at which Luke gave up. Enter Nicole. 

In summary, Lorelai was casual+ dating. That wasn’t enough for Luke, so he stopped nearly-asking and she didn’t have to admit to herself that she didn’t want a serious relationship yet.

[stan4]

6 hours ago, clack said:

If, rather than being an ensemble character in a comedy/light drama, Luke had been the protagonist in a movie drama, we would perceive him as a guy in deep trouble:

A man pushing 40, irascible and deeply conservative in his habits, runs a small town diner. His daily life consists of working long hours, and then going to the small apartment he has on top of his diner and watching ball games on TV. His only real friend is a woman with whom he is secretly in love.

This is a guy on the verge of becoming a tragic figure.

Great post.

I like Luke like I enjoy many of the town's characters (because of how they make the story more interesting and complex), but I refuse to deify him like many do, because he is a hot mess and not even close to being the nice person people have built up in their minds.  This would be cool if ASP wrote him that way intentionally, but I have trouble believing she didn't mean for him to be that curmudgeonly "real deal" guy with a heart of gold. 

 

He's not.  He's rude (many times very unnecessarily), condescending, insecure, ridiculously set in his ways, hates dogs, hates kids, hates change, hates leaving his comfort zone...he is one of those people who seems to get off on being negative about everything.  If  anyone wants to be happy or celebrate, well, that's lame.  "Everything is stupid, everyone else is wrong, and I'm going to make sure they know how stupid and wrong they are." 

 

And to top it off, he's an emotional chickenshit who was great at running other people down but not so good at actually accomplishing anything himself.

[clack]

One way of reading various characters and situations : Luke's dead, unmourned, curmudgeonly uncle is an aspect of Luke's worst side, a Scrooge-like glimpse into a potential future.The town recluse is a warning to Luke about another possible destiny. And Marty -- in love with his best friend, who in turn is hung up on someone else -- is also an echo of Luke's basic situation.

Imagine Luke without Lorelai, 30 years in the future. 70 years old, retired from the diner, in ill-health. Known now mainly as the eccentric recluse who yells at people in the town meetings. He sees Lorelai once a year at Thanksgiving, where he dines awkwardly with Lorelai, her husband, her children and grandchildren. Her grandchildren refer to him as "that grouchy old guy". Afterwards, he goes home alone to his one bedroom apartment.

Lorelai, in the end, would do fine without Luke. Luke needs Lorelai. 

[elang4]

1 minute ago, clack said:

One way of reading various characters and situations : Luke's dead, unmourned, curmudgeonly uncle is an aspect of Luke's worst side, a Scrooge-like glimpse into a potential future.The town recluse is a warning to Luke about another possible destiny. And Marty -- in love with his best friend, who in turn is hung up on someone else -- is also an echo of Luke's basic situation.

Imagine Luke without Lorelai, 30 years in the future. 70 years old, retired from the diner, in ill-health. Known now mainly as the eccentric recluse who yells at people in the town meetings. He sees Lorelai once a year at Thanksgiving, where he dines awkwardly with Lorelai, her husband, her children and grandchildren. Her grandchildren refer to him as "that grouchy old guy". Afterwards, he goes home alone to his one bedroom apartment.

Lorelai, in the end, would do fine without Luke. Luke needs Lorelai. 

I don’t agree with that. I think their friendship was two sided. Lorelai needed Luke just as much as he needed her. He brought the best out of her and brought her down to reality when she needed it. He was the one of the few she would actually listen to and she would actually take his words on board. This wasn’t all about Luke pining for Lorelai. Maybe he felt something for her a long time before she developed feelings but she really appreciated their friendship. Look at the way she would act when they weren’t talking. She couldn’t cope.

[stan4]

3 hours ago, elang4 said:

I don’t agree with that. I think their friendship was two sided. Lorelai needed Luke just as much as he needed her. He brought the best out of her and brought her down to reality when she needed it. He was the one of the few she would actually listen to and she would actually take his words on board. This wasn’t all about Luke pining for Lorelai. Maybe he felt something for her a long time before she developed feelings but she really appreciated their friendship. Look at the way she would act when they weren’t talking. She couldn’t cope.

Lorelai could have married Max, Jason, or any slew of guys and moved on with her life, supported and grounded.  Note I didn't mention Chris.  Not much of a rock, that one.

 

If she was wiggy (pre-relationship) when she and Luke were on the outs, it's likely more because she can't stand for anyone (esp in her circle) not to like her/not be happy with her.  Least of all the guy who feeds her, fixes all her stuff, and has "the only decent coffee."

[andromeda331]

I don't think Lorelai had many or any relationships while she was raising Rory, she might have had one night stands or hook ups but she was pretty focused on her daughter until season one when she is attacked to Max. But also she's starting to realize her daughter will be living for college soon and what her life is going to be? I don't think she was in love with Max. She liked him and was attracted to him. Maybe the first time she was attracted to someone in a long time that she wanted more then a one night stand. I think the therapist in season 6 called it right Max was the first time Lorelai considered marriage as something other her parents wanting her to marry Christopher because she got pregnant. I always liked what she told Rory after learning Rory's reaction to Dean telling her, he loved her. That she didn't know what she was suppose to teach Rory because she didn't really know herself. But didn't what Rory to make the same mistakes she did. I always thought that was close to the truth. 

I think a lot of what effects Luke and his relationships was losing both of his parents so young. His mother died when he was growing up, His father was dying and the hardware store was failing and his sister took off. Luke remained in Stars Hollow, he kept his father's store but turned it into a diner, and turned his father's office into an apartment for him to live. How much does that effect him being a loner? Is he naturally alone or did it come from losing both of his parents? He dated Rachel who came and went when she wanted too. But also he didn't want to leave Stars Hollow. He has zero interest in leaving despite complaining about all the festivals. He doesn't seem to have any close friends except Lorelai. Despite his claims about kids he really liked Rory. Enough to blow up balloons and baker her a coffee cake, to bring her a pie when she tosses her pen while studying.  

[junienmomo]

One of the things that made LL a good match was that they were broken in compatible ways.

I have the feeling that Max wanted a wife, and had the persuasive skills to convince Lorelai to say yes long before most people would have been ready. 

Alex was Lorelai’s Paul. Jason wanted the Hartford Gilmores’ life, which Lorelai never would have done. Christopher wanted sixteen year old Lorelai including her not having a kid. It was probably not a coincidence that he started pressuring her for marriage when it was certain that Rory wouldn’t be around 24/7.

Luke and Lorelai were themselves with each other, except for the unacknowledged sexual attraction. They could weep, or rant or ramble and they knew what those things meant.  

[bracebridge]

Quote

Luke and Lorelai were themselves with each other, except for the unacknowledged sexual attraction. They could weep, or rant or ramble and they knew what those things meant.  

Indeed! Luke and Lorelai never seemed truer to themselves than when they are around each other. There's such a genuine connection in their bond, like an unspoken agreement that no matter what comes to their way, they can always rely and confide on each other and have each other's backs. A "you and me against the world" kind of dynamic, if you will.

They're partners way way before they become romantic.

That's why I can't agree that Chris really 'got' Lorelai - he got her humor and her references, sure, and they bonded over anecdotes of their childhood and teenage years, but at the end of the day, he didn't know the person Lorelai had grown into. Meanwhile, Luke knows Lorelai better than anyone - he doesn't hold her in a pedestal. He calls her on her crap, and he trusts her to do same for him. He knows her quirks, her flaws, her insecurities. He's seen her at her very best and at her very worst - and that doesn't deter him in the slightest. He loves her just like she is.

Edited July 25, 2018 by bracebridge

[voiceover]

One of my favorites: "Dead Uncles and Vegetables".  Because Lorelai gets to rescue Luke -- not just once, but several times over the course of the episode.  She immediately books all those rooms for his family members; she jumps in to run the diner while he's organizing things; she runs to his side at the funeral home and tries to placate his meltdown; she's the only one who shows up for the funeral; she talks Taylor & co into showing up in their re-enactment garb.

This is one of the most basic things they had in common: the definition of friendship meant these physical acts of support.  Not just words.  Over the run of the series, it's mostly him that does them (the huppah, the Jeep, the house maintenance), but Lorelai is the one who steps up here.  I loved the character all the more for that.  It was one of her finest moments.

[elang4]

1 hour ago, voiceover said:

One of my favorites: "Dead Uncles and Vegetables".  Because Lorelai gets to rescue Luke -- not just once, but several times over the course of the episode.  She immediately books all those rooms for his family members; she jumps in to run the diner while he's organizing things; she runs to his side at the funeral home and tries to placate his meltdown; she's the only one who shows up for the funeral; she talks Taylor & co into showing up in their re-enactment garb.

This is one of the most basic things they had in common: the definition of friendship meant these physical acts of support.  Not just words.  Over the run of the series, it's mostly him that does them (the huppah, the Jeep, the house maintenance), but Lorelai is the one who steps up here.  I loved the character all the more for that.  It was one of her finest moments.

I agree. A lot of people say it’s one sided and it’s only ever Luke that does things and is there for Lorelai but this episode proved that wasn’t the case. She literally dropped everything to go and help him out and I thought it was really nice to see. Even Rory helped out in the diner as well which shows how much she cares about Luke as well. Another moment that I remember is that Lorelai didn’t hesitate in going and picking up Luke when she heard he had been arrested and even paid for his bail as well. Luke did a lot for Lorelai and Rory but it was moment like these that shows Lorelai was there for him just as much and I’m glad they showed them. ?

[andromeda331]

7 hours ago, voiceover said:

One of my favorites: "Dead Uncles and Vegetables".  Because Lorelai gets to rescue Luke -- not just once, but several times over the course of the episode.  She immediately books all those rooms for his family members; she jumps in to run the diner while he's organizing things; she runs to his side at the funeral home and tries to placate his meltdown; she's the only one who shows up for the funeral; she talks Taylor & co into showing up in their re-enactment garb.

This is one of the most basic things they had in common: the definition of friendship meant these physical acts of support.  Not just words.  Over the run of the series, it's mostly him that does them (the huppah, the Jeep, the house maintenance), but Lorelai is the one who steps up here.  I loved the character all the more for that.  It was one of her finest moments.

 

5 hours ago, elang4 said:

I agree. A lot of people say it’s one sided and it’s only ever Luke that does things and is there for Lorelai but this episode proved that wasn’t the case. She literally dropped everything to go and help him out and I thought it was really nice to see. Even Rory helped out in the diner as well which shows how much she cares about Luke as well. Another moment that I remember is that Lorelai didn’t hesitate in going and picking up Luke when she heard he had been arrested and even paid for his bail as well. Luke did a lot for Lorelai and Rory but it was moment like these that shows Lorelai was there for him just as much and I’m glad they showed them. ?

I love that episode for that very reason. I loved seeing Lorelai and Rory dropping everything to help Luke. I always thought they would but we never really seen it before. I loved the old diner phases and Rory somehow was able to put Jess to work. Lorelai managed to get the Revolutionary War re-enactors to do show up. I loved Lorelai immediately dismissing that Luke was just like his uncle and gave him examples. I do wish they had shown up for the funeral but it was nice to see everyone show up for the wake. It showed how many people really did love Luke which was nice to see. 

[lulu1960]

And that is why Dead Uncles and Vegetables is my favorite episode for the entire series. Lorelai (and Rory) drop everything to help Luke. Perhaps that is why Forgiveness and Stuff is my second favorite episode. Luke is the one that dropped everything for Lorelai. Their relationship is strongly based on them always being there for each other. Whether it be bail money or a  fish bag.

[shron17]

On 7/24/2018 at 9:41 PM, stan4 said:

Lorelai could have married Max, Jason, or any slew of guys and moved on with her life, supported and grounded. 

Lorelai specifically wanted a partner, which I think she got with Luke.  Max was more of a parental figure to her than partner and she and Jason had zero emotional connection.  Maybe it could have happened with someone else, but Luke was the only one she knew who could even come close.

11 hours ago, elang4 said:

A lot of people say it’s one sided and it’s only ever Luke that does things and is there for Lorelai but this episode proved that wasn’t the case.

I agree, but I also remember a lot of other times Lorelai was there for Luke--when she tried to help with Rachel, when she spoke up to the town about Jess, when she encouraged him to go on the cruise, when he was depressed and she invited him for movie night, etc. etc.  I think this is where the "I'm the yin to your yang" part comes in.   They were both strong, independent but broken people and what one couldn't handle, the other could.

21 hours ago, junienmomo said:

One of the things that made LL a good match was that they were broken in compatible ways.

This is perfect.  And the main reason why pointing out one or the other's flaws never convinces me they don't belong together.

[bracebridge]

On 7/26/2018 at 11:52 AM, lulu1960 said:

Their relationship is strongly based on them always being there for each other.

Beautifully said. They could really lean and rely on each other which is a massive deal for two people who stubbornly prided themselves on being independent.

Another moment between them that I really love is Lorelai pouring her heart out to Luke about her insecurities in "The Ins and Outs of Inns" after her massive freak out with Sookie over the inn, she's sort of putting herself down. But Luke? He's not taking it.

I think this illustrates one of my favorite aspects of their relationship: their endless support towards each other and their willingness to tell each other what they need to hear rather than what they want to hear.

Quote

LORELAI: Oh Luke, do not underestimate the complete and total lack of confidence I have in my abilities.

LUKE: What? You're the most confident person I know. Obnoxiously so.

———

LORELAI: Oh, so you think I can't hack it.

LUKE: Of course you can hack it.

———

LUKE: You're just scared. Just like everybody else when they're taking on something big.

LORELAI: Well, then what does everybody else do to get through this feeling?

LUKE: They run in the back, throw up, pass out and then smack their head on the floor.

LORELAI: What?

LUKE: That's what I did on the first morning I opened the diner. Look, there is no button to push to get you through this. You just gotta jump in and be scared and stick with it until it gets fun.

And the best part of it is that she gets it. She gets over her fear of failure and makes up with Sookie in the very next scene. 

Edited July 28, 2018 by bracebridge

[Kohola3]

4 hours ago, lulu1960 said:

And that is why Dead Uncles and Vegetables is my favorite episode for the entire series. Lorelai (and Rory) drop everything to help Luke. Perhaps that is why Forgiveness and Stuff is my second favorite episode. Luke is the one that dropped everything for Lorelai. Their relationship is strongly based on them always being there for each other. Whether it be bail money or a  fish bag.

Absolutely agree.  The two best.

[clack]

I always found something unconvincing about the way that the L/L friendship is portrayed. What does it consist of, on a daily or even weekly basis?

A few words exchanged while a busy Luke takes her order at the diner. 

Sitting together at the monthly town meeting.

Luke helping around Lorelai's house a couple times a year, doing some handyman work.

Wouldn't close friends who are also neighbors socialize with each other more often? Regular tv night? Card game? Movie? Meet for a couple of drinks? Go to a ballgame? Just drop by the house to hang out?  "Hey Luke, doing anything tonight?" We seldom see any of that.

Being there for each other when the other needs help is wonderful -- but that's something family does. Your brother helps you move, but he's not normally someone you hang out with daily. First few seasons, Luke is more a brother than a close friend -- that role belongs to Sookie or Rory.

[stan4]

Exactly.

 

It was like a big production for him  just to come watch a movie.

 

She knows nothing about his family.  Never even noticed his dark day.  Never saw his apartment.  Never knew he ate at Sniffie's.  Basically never socialized outside of the diner.

 

And the most telling is when she's mad he "moved" and Luke asks her what has changed.  He still feeds her, he still gives her coffee, etc.  That really doesn't point to any extraordinary closeness.

[clack]

The reason we never saw Lorelai and Luke pal around much one-on-one is because it would feel weird to the viewer. These 2 very attractive, single people who obviously love each other are only platonic friends because why, again?

So, I get that. But why not, say, have Luke and Lorelai have a regular Thursday get together at Sookie's? They all play Scrabble, order in some pizza, have a few beers, tell jokes. That would make the friendship seem more lived in, less contrived.

As it stands, there is something improper about the way that Lorelai imposes upon Luke. There is one episode where Lorelai invites Luke over and he is so thrilled, only to have him turn up and she has some task for him, get rid of a mouse or fix an appliance, I forget. 

That is so not the way to treat a supposed friend. She repeatedly takes advantage of Luke's loyalty and love, and the show never calls her out on it.

[andromeda331]

5 hours ago, clack said:

The reason we never saw Lorelai and Luke pal around much one-on-one is because it would feel weird to the viewer. These 2 very attractive, single people who obviously love each other are only platonic friends because why, again?

So, I get that. But why not, say, have Luke and Lorelai have a regular Thursday get together at Sookie's? They all play Scrabble, order in some pizza, have a few beers, tell jokes. That would make the friendship seem more lived in, less contrived.

As it stands, there is something improper about the way that Lorelai imposes upon Luke. There is one episode where Lorelai invites Luke over and he is so thrilled, only to have him turn up and she has some task for him, get rid of a mouse or fix an appliance, I forget. 

That is so not the way to treat a supposed friend. She repeatedly takes advantage of Luke's loyalty and love, and the show never calls her out on it.

I'm confused. Are you talking about the episode when the chick got lose? Luke was all excited because he thought it was code for sex or as Sookie put it later that she wanted to see him and made up an excuse. I know Sookie asked why Lorelai didn't call Andrew or Miss Patty in that episode which always seemed weird to me. When did we ever see Lorelai call anyone but Sookie or Luke when she needed help?  

[marineg]

I understand. yes, I think that the relationship works between them as is, but there are things missing. I agree they behave as close friends do, which is really nice, and they're supportive of each other and all that. Great, amazing. Really. But from actual moments of friendship, there is nothing on the screen. Like @clack and @stan4 said, apart from going to Luke's to eat and hanging out there a couple hours a day, and seeing each other around town, they never have pre-arranged friend nights. Season 1 implied that they were mere acquaintances before the show started. But then they made it seem like Luke had always been in Rory's life with the unicorn gifts and being there when she was sick and all that. But again, nothing actually on the screen to prove it other than "rumours".

Edited July 29, 2018 by marineg

[shron17]

18 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I know Sookie asked why Lorelai didn't call Andrew or Miss Patty in that episode which always seemed weird to me.

Apparently Miss Patty keeps chickens, which I guess would be a good reason to call her.

[stan4]

On 7/29/2018 at 7:37 AM, marineg said:

I understand. yes, I think that the relationship works between them as is, but there are things missing. I agree they behave as close friends do, which is really nice, and they're supportive of each other and all that. Great, amazing. Really. But from actual moments of friendship, there is nothing on the screen. Like @clack and @stan4 said, apart from going to Luke's to eat and hanging out there a couple hours a day, and seeing each other around town, they never have pre-arranged friend nights. Season 1 implied that they were mere acquaintances before the show started. But then they made it seem like Luke had always been in Rory's life with the unicorn gifts and being there when she was sick and all that. But again, nothing actually on the screen to prove it other than "rumours".

It's all very inconsistent with Rory being a little girl with the whole caterpillar funeral but how they didn't meet until she was 11, etc.  Neither of them told the other when they were dating someone.  Almost pathologic with the avoidance of the establishment and subject.  How do you not know your good, good friend has a nephew?

[marineg]

Exatly. The only "hint" we have that they are good friends is them and other SH people saying they are. ASP writes that the whole town knows Luke is in love with Lorelai and yet, there is no sign of that for most of the show.

[stan4]

On 7/28/2018 at 11:13 AM, clack said:

The reason we never saw Lorelai and Luke pal around much one-on-one is because it would feel weird to the viewer. These 2 very attractive, single people who obviously love each other are only platonic friends because why, again?

 

I am not sure that I would have ever in my life found a sarcastic, scruffy, provincial dude with a bad attitude who worked in a diner attractive (or considered him dating material).  Been friends with some people like that, though.  In limited/situational ways (at work, fixing motorcycles, etc).  So I don't think we would have had to suspend our disbelief that much.  *shrug*

 

Luke was so insecure.  Especially about Chris.  Pretty  much every blowout or problem or nastiness between Luke and Lorelai boiled down to his insecurity about their 'two worlds' and her being better off with someone like Chris.  The weird blowup over the wedding and break-up #1.  The phone call fight.  The punch.  The speech he makes after break-up #2 about how Lorelai belongs with someone like Chris and not with someone like Luke.  His inability to have a reasonable conversation with the elder Gilmores (he was weirdly nervous and obsequious - no wonder they had a hard time respecting him).  The more I watch the series, the more irritating this character gets.

[bracebridge]

I think another post from quite a while ago hit the nail right in the head when saying that you can't define "close friends" in the same way for everybody - especially when we're talking about an introvert like Luke who's not the type to get together with people frequently. That said, I do think he socialized with Lorelai plenty for his standards - they saw and talked to each other at the diner everyday and were almost always up to what was going on with the other.

Luke came over for dinner at her house and for the Casablanca movie night at Lorelai's invitation. They had lunch in the gazebo for the town basket event. They ate together in Thanksgiving every year. He went to Rory's birthday party and Lorelai's engagement party (even though I'm sure that he wasn't fond of crowded environments and he would've had declined to attend had it not been for them). Lorelai helped him paint the diner, accompanied him to Louie's funeral, helped him look for an apartment for him & Jess, bailed him out of jail, and gave him advice on Rachel, Nicole and Jess. Luke taught her how to fish, built a chuppah for her wedding, practically dropped everything to be there for her during a family emergency, shoveled her drive when it snowed, fixed the catwalk at the inn solely for Lorelai's sake and went to the Bracebridge dinner to support her. Not only does he insist on doing all the repairs in Lorelai's house (going as far as lecturing her for wasting money by hiring someone to do something he could gladly do for free) but he loans her a major amount of money without as much as a moment's hesitation.

And while it's true that they rarely hung out in a lot of formally scheduled plans, there's no doubt in my mind that if it came down to it - as in if for some reason Lorelai's circumstances changed or she couldn't come into the diner anymore, they would've worked out a way to spend time with each other.

Furthermore, I think the way they act around each other is pretty telling in its own right. They're never more comfortable and truer to themselves than when they are with each other. Lorelai confides on him in a way she can't with Rory, Sookie or Chris. And the same goes for Luke. When he's feeling troubled, when he needs a second opinion, when he just needs someone to vent to - who does he call? Who does he go to? When all is said and done, who is the one person he cares about the most? Lorelai.

In my opinion, LL are extremely close friends who consider themselves as such (hence why Lorelai is incensed when he doesn't tell her moved and Luke is so taken aback when Lorelai tells him that they are not friends). That's actually the reason I ship them - they love each other both romantically and platonically, but the platonic part was just as important. As a matter of fact, their closeness lent credence to their reluctance to acknowledge their feelings and pursue a romantic relationship - they were practically family to each other. Why on earth would they want to jeopardize that?

Edited August 3, 2018 by bracebridge

[elang4]

40 minutes ago, bracebridge said:

I think another post from quite a while ago hit the nail right in the head when saying that you can't define "close friends" in the same way for everybody - especially when we're talking about an introvert like Luke who's not the type to get together with people frequently. That said, I do think he socialized with Lorelai plenty for his standards - they saw and talked to each other at the diner everyday and were almost always up to what was going on with the other.

Luke came over for dinner at her house and for the Casablanca movie night at Lorelai's invitation. They had lunch in the gazebo for the town basket event. They ate together in Thanksgiving every year. He went to Rory's birthday party and Lorelai's engagement party (even though I'm sure that he wasn't fond of crowded environments and he would've had declined to attend had it not been for them). Lorelai helped him paint the diner, accompanied him to Louie's funeral, helped him look for an apartment for him & Jess, bailed him out of jail, and gave him advice on Rachel, Nicole and Jess. Luke taught her how to fish, built a chuppah for her wedding, practically dropped everything to be there for her during a family emergency, shoveled her drive when it snowed, fixed the catwalk at the inn solely for Lorelai's sake and went to the Bracebridge dinner to support her. Not only does he insist on doing all the repairs in Lorelai's house (going as far as lecturing her for wasting money by hiring someone to do something he could gladly do for free) but he loans her a major amount of money without as much as a moment's hesitation.

And while it's true that they rarely hung out in a lot of formally scheduled plans, there's no doubt in my mind that if it came down to it - as in if for some reason Lorelai's circumstances changed or she couldn't come into the diner anymore, they would've worked out a way to spend time with each other.

Furthermore, I think the way they act around each other is pretty telling in its own right. They're never more comfortable and truer to themselves than when they are with each other. Lorelai confides on him in a way she can't with Rory, Sookie or Chris. And the same goes for Luke. When he's feeling troubled, when he needs a second opinion, when he just needs someone to vent to - who does he call? Who does he go to? When all is said and done, who is the one person he cares about the most? Lorelai.

In my opinion, LL are extremely close friends who consider themselves as such (hence why Lorelai is incensed when he doesn't tell her moved and Luke is so taken aback when Lorelai tells him that they are not friends). That's actually the reason I ship them - they love each other both romantically and platonically, but the platonic part was just as important. As a matter of fact, their closeness lent credence to their reluctance to acknowledge their feelings and pursue a romantic relationship - they were practically family to each other. Why on earth would they want to jeopardize that?

I totally agree. And don’t forget all the times when Lorelai alone or when she’s with Rory goes to the diner outside of the normal opening hours and Luke always lets them in. 

[stan4]

Everything that Luke did for Lorelai that took him out of his way = typical guy white knighting it for a chick he is into.

Not evidence of their "friendship."

[peacheslatour]

On 8/3/2018 at 6:38 PM, stan4 said:

Everything that Luke did for Lorelai that took him out of his way = typical guy white knighting it for a chick he is into.

Not evidence of their "friendship."

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. That Luke being a "nice guy" because he wanted to get into her pants? If you scan the rest of this thread many posters have enumerated the many ways Lorelai also went out of her way for him. I think they were very good friends. It was sweet.

[clack]

"White knighting" is totally what Luke is doing. You normally would not impose upon a mere friend (however close) for frequent unpaid handyman chores -- that's what boyfriends (or brothers or fathers) are for.

Luke is happy to be so imposed upon -- it implies a dependence and an intimacy.

[coffeecoffeecoffee]

I was going to blather on about how I think Luke and Lorelai are a lot more alike than they may initially seem, but I see that subject has been covered better than I ever could. Instead, I'll pose a deep and meaningful question:

Of all Luke and Lorelai's kisses in the original series and revival, which two or three are your favorites?

You're welcome in advance for raising the level of intellectual discourse. ;)

[peacheslatour]

38 minutes ago, coffeecoffeecoffee said:

I was going to blather on about how I think Luke and Lorelai are a lot more alike than they may initially seem, but I see that subject has been covered better than I ever could. Instead, I'll pose a deep and meaningful question:

Of all Luke and Lorelai's kisses in the original series and revival, which two or three are your favorites?

You're welcome in advance for raising the level of intellectual discourse. ;)

One I loved was when Emily made Luke go back to Lorelai.

[bracebridge]

On rewatch, I’ve come to the realization that I find Luke and Lorelai's dynamic to be pretty similar to Emily and Richard's relationship, with a more relaxed, optimistic if somewhat immature personality that would only get fired up on principle (that would be Lorelai and Richard) that served as a counterbalance to the other's uptight, responsible and perpetually passionate persona (Luke and Emily). Luke and Emily are both caretakers, fiercely devoted to their respective persons and always willing to attend to their needs, while Lorelai and Richard light them up and make them feel more at ease.

This only helps illustrate my point that Luke and Lorelai complement each other perfectly, which is why I think they work so well as a team and as partners (which is what they are, whether they’re in a committed relationship or just platonic BFFs). 

[AsYouWish]

Hi everyone, I posted here a bit and then managed to lose my password and have now returned to find that the format and even title of this site have radically changed! Like Luke, I'm not a fan of change, so this will take some getting used to 🙂

I've been watching episodes again while working on a java junkie fanfic about Luke's birthday that also involves some other GG characters. My fanfic is beyond terrible, but the rewatch has helped me fall in love with the show and LL in particular all over again. And since I just watched the Ins and Outs of Inns, can I share how happy it makes me that Luke is a secret fan of science fiction? It's a perfect layer to his character and is something else Luke and I have in common 🙂  

Also, if anyone can confirm Luke's eye color, that would be great. I think they're greenish-blue?

Edited April 22, 2019 by AsYouWish

[peacheslatour]

Blue or grey blue.

[lulu1960]

Definitely blue.

[junienmomo]

Blue-eyed man Luke Danes.

[bracebridge]

Rewatching the season 3 premiere and I’m still so moved by the Mimi scene/reconciliation. That said, here’s a thought experiment - if that scene hadn’t happened, how do you think Luke and Lorelai would have reconciled? I say this because Luke seemed pretty hell-bent on hanging to his grudge even when Lorelai entered the diner. What would have taken for him to let go of it?

[junienmomo]

7 hours ago, bracebridge said:

Rewatching the season 3 premiere and I’m still so moved by the Mimi scene/reconciliation. That said, here’s a thought experiment - if that scene hadn’t happened, how do you think Luke and Lorelai would have reconciled? I say this because Luke seemed pretty hell-bent on hanging to his grudge even when Lorelai entered the diner. What would have taken for him to let go of it?

I think Luke had given up at the Mimi point.

He had failed to ask her out. She had shown no interest except to flirt for fun, coffee and household help, which he gave willingly.

What little gumption he had was smashed by Max taking his shot. Christopher had won the ‘paint date.’ Even when Christopher behaved badly she still gave him a shot. Jess had Luke’s number and both knew it. 

A smarter man would have taken his shot, but he hadn’t. At the time of the car accident I believe he was just done. 

To address your question, I think if impatient Lorelai had gone to the diner as a customer for a while, no flirting, no friendship, he would have eventually let the relationship grow again.

[junienmomo]

Cute little analysis of Luke’s wealth. 

They only missed how much he paid for the flower shop.

A short video clip as well. Napkin swapping.

If we presume his father didn’t leave a big mortgage, then I think Luke would have had more cash than Kirk. A hundred thousand for the shop, 30 thousand for Lorelai, and a major remodel of the Crap Shack could easily top 200 thousand. 

 

https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/gilmore-girls-was-luke-danes-secretly-rich.html/

 

[andromeda331]

25 minutes ago, junienmomo said:

Cute little analysis of Luke’s wealth. 

They only missed how much he paid for the flower shop.

A short video clip as well. Napkin swapping.

If we presume his father didn’t leave a big mortgage, then I think Luke would have had more cash than Kirk. A hundred thousand for the shop, 30 thousand for Lorelai, and a major remodel of the Crap Shack could easily top 200 thousand. 

 

https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/gilmore-girls-was-luke-danes-secretly-rich.html/

 

That makes sense. I figured Luke probably had a lot of money. He inherited the building the diner was in from his father so its entirely possible his father had paid off the mortgage on that. Any house he grew up in was sold I can see Luke splitting that with Liz. Then he lives above the diner so he's not paying any rent. He has the same old truck, clothes, and doesn't seem to really spend that much money on anything or have a lot of expenses. 

[FictionLover]

1 hour ago, junienmomo said:

Cute little analysis of Luke’s wealth. 

They only missed how much he paid for the flower shop.

A short video clip as well. Napkin swapping.

If we presume his father didn’t leave a big mortgage, then I think Luke would have had more cash than Kirk. A hundred thousand for the shop, 30 thousand for Lorelai, and a major remodel of the Crap Shack could easily top 200 thousand. 

 

https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/gilmore-girls-was-luke-danes-secretly-rich.html/

 

Not to mention he tried to secretly loan her $15,000 when she had termites in season 2 (I think).

[Taryn74]

2 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

He has the same old truck, clothes, and doesn't seem to really spend that much money on anything or have a lot of expenses. 

Reminds me of a story a guy I used to work for told me one time. He was an older man and had tons of money but you'd never know it. (He invested in real estate of the town he lived in before it really grew in size and popularity, so his investment was worth a lot.) One time his wife wanted a new car, a Cadillac, so he drove down to the dealership in his old truck, wearing his old clothes that were his usual style, and told the salesman he wanted to look at the Cadillacs. The salesman turned his nose up and said "They're over there" and walked off. So boss got back in his truck and left. Went to a different dealership, bought a Caddy, paid cash for it, then went back to the first to show the salesman what he had missed out on by being an a-hole. LOL.

[peacheslatour]

Nice. But everyone who has ever been in sales has heard that story. ☺