Characters You've Changed Your Mind About

[amensisterfriend]

We have a thread for episodes you've changed your mind about, so how about characters?! 

 

Logan tops this list for me. Honestly, I am STILL changing my mind about this guy to the point where I give myself whiplash ;) At first I found him impossibly smug, condescending, and arrogant, and the heavy drinking and womanizing happen to be personal pet peeves of mine. Then I go through stages where I find Logan a really compelling or at least entertaining blend of strengths and flaws and end up thinking he's a surprisingly great match for Rory, as they have a nice balance of compatible similarities and complementary differences. Then I see Logan/MC's smirk and how Rory/AB somehow never seems totally relaxed and at ease around him to me and I start to wish all over again that their relationship had ended at the end of S5 or at least by the end of LMHYBRO. Then I'm reminded of how much he genuinely loves her and...yeah, suffice it to say I will always be a tad conflicted over our Mr. Huntzberger :) 

 

Finn. Sometimes I view him as extremely grating and reflective of everything that I dislike about the Life and Death Brigade and the show's depiction of that particular world.  Other times I find him genuinely amusing and even slightly charming and think that I unfairly malign him because he's forever attached to Colin, whom I loathe. 

 

Zack. I mildly to strongly dislike him for the majority of S4-S6. That whole poseur-y, 'duuuude, let me tell you what REAL rock 'n roll is all about' stuff is also on that lengthy list of my pet peeves, and he was just so obnoxious and insensitive. S7 softened him without rendering him totally unrecognizable, though, and I find myself genuinely liking Zack and Zack/Lane that season. 

 

Sookie---For me, she goes from bubbly and endearing and sweetly loyal to shrill, annoyingly irrational, selfish and over the top. Later seasons still give us evidence of the Early Season Sookie I once enjoyed, but by S4 I find myself liking her significantly less than I used to. Making her Lorelai's business partner didn't do the character any favors IMO :) 

 

 

[junienmomo]

Rory rose in my esteem the more I remembered that she was a teenager/college student, and therefore stopped holding her to adult standards. 

 

Sookie started out irresponsible, had the occasional good moment, then went downhill and stayed there with her irresponsible ownership of the inn.

 

Zack was mildly tolerable, but became so stupid I fast-forward through his later stuff. Love Gil, though.

 

Lane went way down, but it was definitely due to the writing - there was no useful plot line after Dave except for her ability to help Luke run the diner.

 

Emily. Sigh. It could have been so wonderful, mother and daughter finding each other. Instead we got S5-S7 Emily. 

[amensisterfriend]

Zack was mildly tolerable, but became so stupid I fast-forward through his later stuff.

 

Heh---yeah, he gives my fast forward button a workout as well! As stated above I did (mostly!) change my mind about him in S7. I actually thought he was awful even in S4---his reaction to Gil's age made me want to smash him over the head with his guitar :) 

 

Rory rose in my esteem the more I remembered that she was a teenager/college student, and therefore stopped holding her to adult standards.

 

My love for Rory is unshakable, but I do change my mind a lot about post-S4 Rory. Sometimes when I rewatch I really do catch more than expected of the original Earlier Seasons Rory who I know and love, which is a very pleaant surprise---but I kind of have to squint to see it in many episodes :) 

[KatWay]

Emily was my absolute favourite character when I first watched the show and more or less casually watched it instead of thinking about it in detail. I just found her hilarious and Kelly Bishop was amazing in the role.

 

When I rewatched the show and started to really get into it I kind of realised what horrible things Emily would say and do...and she rarely got called out on them. Mostly they're considered wacky hijinks. But oof, the snobbery is just too much for me to take sometimes.

[amensisterfriend]

When I rewatched the show and started to really get into it I kind of realised what horrible things Emily would say and do...and she rarely got called out on them. Mostly they're considered wacky hijinks. But oof, the snobbery is just too much for me to take sometimes.

 

Agreed! She got progressively worse and/or my tolerance for her got lower and lower. And the constant firing of the maids every episode was more squirm-worthy than funny to me. And it's really hard to appreciate the nuanced and occasionally really touching relationship with Lorelai when they see-sawed back and forth such a truly maddening number of times. Like, why am I supposed to care that they're bonding here when I know they'll be on frosty terms by the end of this very same episode?! 

 

I'm still always changing my mind about Logan, as rambled about above :) 

 

And to some extent I've changed my mind a few times about Luke and Lorelai as well! 

Edited August 11, 2015 by amensisterfriend

[desertflower]

I go back and forth about Logan as well. I totally understand those who find him smug, but I have to admit I can't help but find him charming most of the time. I think they did a fairly good job of showing that one on one, he was not as snotty as he might appear to be when he was with his friends. Case in point, when Rory is showing the girl from Chilton around Yale and introduces her to Logan in the library. He's very sweet to her, and it seems natural. He also was usually polite to Doyle and the newspaper people, even though he didn't quite pull his weight there and was only there because of his dad. But then at times you wonder, was his charm for real or does he just do it to get what he wants? Either way, the actor definitely had a knack for delivering that fast paced dialogue, so I can see why ASP wanted him.

[whateverhappened]

When I saw this thread title, Jess is the character who came to mind. I loved him the first time I watched the show. I was enthralled by his chemistry with Rory and how his being there meant that we got to see Luke in a close relationship with someone other than Lorelai. And since most Gilmore Girls characters are much snarkier than real life people, his wiseass remarks didn't bother me. 

I don't know if it's age or if people I've met have changed my perspective on certain characters, but now I have a hard time liking Jess until he reappears in S4 and S6. What I saw as sass often strikes me as inexcusable obnoxiousness now, beyond what we get from most other Gilmore Girls characters. He was young, had a tough childhood and was trying to adjust to a new life in Stars Hollow that he hadn't been prepared for, so I try to cut him some slack. And if Liz were my mother, I'm sure I'd have had some seething resentment as well. There are just a lot of scenes where he's just way out of line, though. And I really don't blame Dean for wanting to throttle the guy. Even lines that once might have struck me as romantic or at least make me feel sympathetic towards him, like how he "doesn't like anyone except you [Rory]" now seem more like a red flag to me.

It's great to see that by S4 and S6 he was able to do offscreen what a lot of the other characters weren't allowed to do on screen - mature into a better person!  

[Mick Lady]

I loved my Mom very much (she passed several years ago) but when this show premiered, I had four girlfriends call me and say "Your Mom is on T.V."  I have such a love/hate relationship with Emily, but the last few seasons made me understand her (and my own Mom) better. She loved her daughter very much, but just couldn't connect with her.

Gil is another one I changed my mind about. At first I saw him as just trying to be "cool", but he was so accepting and open. As an example, when he went to the Kim's for a wedding and honestly enjoyed himself! I found him and Mrs. Kim to be a riot together! Or when Mrs. Kim was putting together Hep Alien's road trip, and giving him instructions on Van maintenance, he was completely into it!

[Taryn74]

Sorry about your mom.  That must be so hard.

I've always adored Gil.  It still cracks me up that Sebastian Freaking Bach was a regular on my favorite "girlie" show.

And Mrs. Kim telling him not to wear his delivery uniform on stage during their tour........bahahahahahaha.

[Mick Lady]

Thanks Taryn74, you're very kind to say that!

[Keith1980]

Think the big two are Rory and Sookie.  Sookie was a very funny and sweet supporting character for a long time, but I think post-marriage she did become more annoying and unlikeable in general.  I like her and Jackson as a couple, but I do think that marriage brought out the worse in her at least.

Its a classic opinion on Rory.  But the 1-4 Rory was thoughtful, smart and fun to be around, later season Rory just became too smug and let her lifestyle go to her head too much.  She still has her moments, but I much prefer her in the first 4 seasons.

The other ones are to smaller degrees.  Logan grew on me, after not liking him at first.  There are still many things I don't like about him.  But I am at least convinced that he has more depth than first appears and probably does care for Rory. 

It was reverse with Dean.  I never loved his character but thought he was decent to be around and quite liked him and Rory as a couple for at least a season and an half.  The longer he's on the show the more self-important, bland, and whining he became. 

Jess I like and now see as Rory's ideal partner (at least out of her three main love interests).  But he was a bit of a slow burning character.  When you understand more about his background and see how he matures later then I think I understand him more.  And always enjoy the spark he brought to the show. 

[hippielamb]

On 2/4/2017 at 6:42 PM, whateverhappened said:

I don't know if it's age or if people I've met have changed my perspective on certain characters, but now I have a hard time liking Jess until he reappears in S4 and S6. What I saw as sass often strikes me as inexcusable obnoxiousness now, beyond what we get from most other Gilmore Girls characters. He was young, had a tough childhood and was trying to adjust to a new life in Stars Hollow that he hadn't been prepared for, so I try to cut him some slack. And if Liz were my mother, I'm sure I'd have had some seething resentment as well. There are just a lot of scenes where he's just way out of line, though. And I really don't blame Dean for wanting to throttle the guy. Even lines that once might have struck me as romantic or at least make me feel sympathetic towards him, like how he "doesn't like anyone except you [Rory]" now seem more like a red flag to me.

 

Definitely! When a guy says that to you, run the other way. I used to think that kind of thing was sexy and romantic but sge and experience have taught me that it's a red flag.

On 7/12/2015 at 11:11 AM, amensisterfriend said:

Sookie---For me, she goes from bubbly and endearing and sweetly loyal to shrill, annoyingly irrational, selfish and over the top. Later seasons still give us evidence of the Early Season Sookie I once enjoyed, but by S4 I find myself liking her significantly less than I used to. Making her Lorelai's business partner didn't do the character any favors IMO :) 

She changed for the worse. I think one of her most awful moments was barging into Luke's and throwing his food out because it wasn't good enough. Who does that? It's his diner! If he had went off on her I would have cheered. And the yelling at Norman Mailer for ordering tea. Good grief. Sookie became less of a friend to Lorelai and more of cartoon character.

On 8/11/2015 at 3:34 PM, desertflower said:

I go back and forth about Logan as well. I totally understand those who find him smug, but I have to admit I can't help but find him charming most of the time. I think they did a fairly good job of showing that one on one, he was not as snotty as he might appear to be when he was with his friends. Case in point, when Rory is showing the girl from Chilton around Yale and introduces her to Logan in the library. He's very sweet to her, and it seems natural. He also was usually polite to Doyle and the newspaper people, even though he didn't quite pull his weight there and was only there because of his dad. But then at times you wonder, was his charm for real or does he just do it to get what he wants? Either way, the actor definitely had a knack for delivering that fast paced dialogue, so I can see why ASP wanted him.

Yeah, he fits in the fast talking 40's screwball comedy mold. Logan is the one character I really changed my mind on. I didn't start liking him until season 6. Part of it is Rory's behaviour, and the distance from Lorelai that came about because of Logan. It's not his fault, but on first viewing it was easy to not like him. I like his charm, and joy of life. The other guys Rory has dated don't really have that carpe diem type of attitude, and I find it very attractive in Logan. 

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

I think any guy that Rory was going to be serious about was going to inadvertently affect her relationship with Lorelai. Lorelai and Jess' conflict was because of their interactions whether or not it was about Rory. Logan posed a threat even without any interactions with Lorelai because Rory fell hard for him. The moment she decided on Yale instead of Harvard was when Lorelai lost her iron grip on Rory. It was a gradual process that I don't think the characters were aware of. It continuing with the Dean affair and her move from home to campus. In all honestly, Rory was much her own person by the time Logan came along. Hell, the reason she got with Logan was because she was no longer Lorelai's perfect version of Rory. The girl who comes to mommy for every single thing and shuns the world of high society. It didn't help that the biggest conflict they had in their relationship happened when Rory was getting serious with Logan. Lorelai shutting her out drove her more into Logan's arms. 

To get back to the thread, Lorelai I guess. She became more and more grating and belligerent as the series wore on. I still like the character but she was more exhausting than hilarious/witty for the most part. I honestly had no idea how anyone could deal with her on a regular basis. My impatient with her ramblings mirrors Emily's. 

[Lady Calypso]

Oh, I love this thread.

Rory is the first one that comes to mind. So, I loved seasons 1-4 Rory when I first watched. I recently did my binge watch (in September) for the first time since I watched a bit of the show when it first aired, so I guess I count that more as my first viewing that I remember. So not that long ago did I love little Rory Gilmore. Seasons 5-7 are when I was slowly but surely getting annoyed with her until late season 6, when I couldn't really tolerate her as much. But, you know, I still gave her a chance because I knew that she was just introduced to her grandparents' lifestyle, she was probably enjoying the comfort that comes with it and she was able to try new things that Lorelai didn't introduce her to so she would have never known. 

And then the revival happened that ruined any sympathy I had for her. A 32 year old, in my opinion, shouldn't be as lost, as entitled, and as whiny as Rory is. She should have learned from her mistakes, she should not be a cheater and a total jerk to the people around her, and she should be more mature and intelligent as she had been in her younger days. 

Or was she really as mature and intelligent? Because I decided to watch some earlier episodes and although she is a lot better in the early Chilton years, she's not as great as I first perceived her to be. She still has entitlement issues, as shown in The Deer Hunters episode, when she's not allowed to take a test because she's late and she throws a tantrum. She ran away to her grandparents' house in late season 1 because of a fight with her mom. Season 4 had her whine about a study tree. So yeah, I've discovered that I may have grown tired of Rory now for the series. At the very least, I do not hold her to the same standards as I did back in September. She has been tainted because of the later seasons and the revival. 

Logan is a character that I actually loved in the original series. He was the perfect amount of charm for me, even when he did dickish things. He was very much entitled, of course, but he grew as a character and season 7 had him correct his mistakes, so I appreciated it. I actually put him on my top three most improved characters in terms of development (behind Jess and Mrs. Kim). And then...you guessed it, the revival happened and now I'm afraid to go back and rewatch season 5 and have my opinion of Logan change. I really did truly like him until he reverted in the revival and now I just see him as a prick and an asshole who can't get out from under his father's rule. 

[Guest]

10 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Logan is a character that I actually loved in the original series. He was the perfect amount of charm for me, even when he did dickish things. He was very much entitled, of course, but he grew as a character and season 7 had him correct his mistakes, so I appreciated it. I actually put him on my top three most improved characters in terms of development (behind Jess and Mrs. Kim). And then...you guessed it, the revival happened and now I'm afraid to go back and rewatch season 5 and have my opinion of Logan change. I really did truly like him until he reverted in the revival and now I just seem him as a prick and an asshole who can't get out from under his father's rule. 

Logan's reverting in the revival is one of my least favorite things about it.  I feel like it was ASP's way of being all "Screw you!" to Season 7.  Almost like she had had "her" Season 7 sketched out in her head that didn't include Logan's growth, so she just undid it at the first opportunity.

I think I've changed my opinion on pretty much all of them.  None of the characters hold up super well under repeat watching and analysis.  I was never a huge Rory fan post season 4, and now I actively dislike her, so that's new. 

[Keith1980]

I think what Jess goes through and because his mother is lousy etc..  are the reasons why he acts badly at first.  The writers are showing of course a different sort of relationship Rory has in contrast to Dean.  But I do believe that deep down Jess was a good person.  Which is different to Logan.  When Logan first showed up I just couldn't buy into his misunderstood rich kid act (partly because rich kids are very rarely misunderstood).  I found him and his friends to be truly rude to Marty and to others around them.  Unlike Jess I could never see enough of a reason for Logan's actions.  Even considering how awful his family were there still wasn't enough to justify it.  I think Rory changes Logan for the better though.

[Katy M]

I hated Paris at first, but I by senior year of high school, she brought me around.

Rory was my fave character during the high school years.  After she slept with Dean, I hated her.  I thought maybe she could redeem herself, but she just got worse and worse.

[whateverhappened]

The more I rewatch the later seasons read from you all, the more I'm starting to enjoy Logan, who I used to loathe. That doesn't mean I would like him in real life. I'm just finding him an interesting change of energy and am increasingly intrigued by the parallels between Logan and Rory and classic romance tropes. I'm also interested in th similarities between him and Lorelai. He's a jerk in a lot of ways, but a different kind of jerk than the surly sourness the Palladinos usually give their main male characters, and this time around I'm finding it a fun and interesting change. There's something about reckless, life loving characters like Logan that always intrigues me even when they exasperate me.  

I still hate his friend Colin. I don't think anything short of a lobotomy will change my mind about him. :) 

[Mick Lady]

I've always loved Logan, I know lots of guys like him, including my brothers, but they (and Logan) grew out of it. The revival destroyed him for me.(Thanks Amy!)

I've always hated Jess. I know he's gone through some tough times, but damn, he treated Luke like shit! Even managed to turn the town against Luke!

Add stealing Dean's bracelet, not taking Rory to town events she wanted to attend, stalking Dean, his total contempt of Rory's family (dinner at Emily's!), what he did outside Taylor's market, leaving town and not telling Rory, I could go on forever! He did improve after a time, but he made me hate him at first, and I never fully got over it. Nope, didn't change my mind on that one.

[AsYouWish]

Marty. I thought he was kind of dull and uncomfortably odd when I first watched the series, but now I think he was a likable and potentially very interesting character who could have been very compatible with Rory in some ways while still just different enough to complement her. And he's got that quirky, endearingly neurotic randomness that would have made him a very good fit for this show.

Quote

I still hate his friend Colin. I don't think anything short of a lobotomy will change my mind about him. :) 

Oh, so much agreement here! I would rather spend a week with Liz and TJ than even one day with Colin. 

I also change my mind a lot about how I really feel Rory, but then again, so do the writers! :-) 

Edited October 22, 2017 by AsYouWish

[glorie]

Jess and Logan.

At first I adored Jess and loathed Logan, he seemed arrogant and smug. Later on I saw how bad boyfriend teenage Jess actually was, and I haven't liked him any more. And I also saw that Logan was actually quite kind to Rory and he has helped her to have a great college experience.

And now I think, that they are both ok in their own way.  Logan is engaged with someone else (although that is understandable, because Rory turned him down and he just couldn't have waited for Rory all his life) - however, he might not choose Rory but might choose to stay with his fiancée.  Jess obviously still likes Rory and he is single, but Rory is not in love with him any more and she is pregnant with Logan. So, perhaps neither of them is really the right person for Rory.

Edited October 22, 2017 by glorie

[stan4]

Luke.

I always like him until I realized that TJ was right (in that scene where Luke is like, "Yeah, it's ok with me if you move to SH" and TJ is like, "Didn't know I needed your permission.") 

He is kind of a dick. 

 

And then all that nonsense at the vow renewal (nut up, dude!), acting like a loon re: Christopher, and, worst of all, the whole April thing.  Jeez.

[elang4]

41 minutes ago, stan4 said:

Luke.

I always like him until I realized that TJ was right (in that scene where Luke is like, "Yeah, it's ok with me if you move to SH" and TJ is like, "Didn't know I needed your permission.") 

He is kind of a dick. 

 

And then all that nonsense at the vow renewal (nut up, dude!), acting like a loon re: Christopher, and, worst of all, the whole April thing.  Jeez.

To be fair, I think Luke realised he was in the wrong with TJ. But you also can’t blame him for assuming the worst considering Liz’s history with guys.

He could have handled the April situation differently but Lorelai could have also. It wasn’t just him.

However, I was totally on his side with the vow renewal. To hear your girlfriend’s ex say that they belonged together and even Emily thought so. I don’t blame Luke for leaving especially after finding out that night that Lorelai had spent the night at Chris’ place without telling him, even though it was innocent. Maybe he could have let Lorelai tell him her side once he’d cooled down a bit but I don’t blame him for leaving one bit. If it had been the other way round, Lorelai certainly would have left and would have made it all about her.

[stan4]

Just now, elang4 said:

To be fair, I think Luke realised he was in the wrong with TJ. But you also can’t blame him for assuming the worst considering Liz’s history with guys.

He could have handled the April situation differently but Lorelai could have also. It wasn’t just him.

However, I was totally on his side with the vow renewal. To hear your girlfriend’s ex say that they belonged together and even Emily thought so. I don’t blame Luke for leaving especially after finding out that night that Lorelai had spent the night at Chris’ place without telling him, even though it was innocent. Maybe he could have let Lorelai tell him her side once he’d cooled down a bit but I don’t blame him for leaving one bit. If it had been the other way round, Lorelai certainly would have left and would have made it all about her.

Sure.  But I think we all aspire to be more mature and react better than Lorelai Gilmore.

The April situation started the second Luke yelled and berated Lorelai for "secrets" and then turned around and hid April for MONTHS.  Asinine.

As for the party, if I had been pining for some chick for 8 years and some stupid idiot like Christopher sounded off, I would have blown his ass off.  Reacting like Luke did was weak.

[elang4]

9 minutes ago, stan4 said:

Sure.  But I think we all aspire to be more mature and react better than Lorelai Gilmore.

The April situation started the second Luke yelled and berated Lorelai for "secrets" and then turned around and hid April for MONTHS.  Asinine.

As for the party, if I had been pining for some chick for 8 years and some stupid idiot like Christopher sounded off, I would have blown his ass off.  Reacting like Luke did was weak.

Yeah but he probably didn’t want to make a scene at Lorelai’s parent party. He was uncomfortable enough being there, he probably knew they would side with Chris if that did happen. I don’t think it’s fair to say walking away from a fight is weak. It was Luke’s way of dealing with it. He probably needed some space and time alone to get his head round things. 

[stan4]

Just now, elang4 said:

Yeah but he probably didn’t want to make a scene at Lorelai’s parent party. He was uncomfortable enough being there, he probably knew they would side with Chris if that did happen. I don’t think it’s fair to say walking away from a fight is weak. It was Luke’s way of dealing with it. He probably needed some space and time alone to get his head round things. 

I mean blow him off like just laugh or roll his eyes at Christopher.  Put him in his place by total non-reaction.  He looks weak because he lets them get under his skin and stalks off all upset.

 

But you know, at the end of the day...Luke is a pretty insecure dude.

[elang4]

4 minutes ago, stan4 said:

I mean blow him off like just laugh or roll his eyes at Christopher.  Put him in his place by total non-reaction.  He looks weak because he lets them get under his skin and stalks off all upset.

 

But you know, at the end of the day...Luke is a pretty insecure dude.

To be fair, he did do that earlier though when Chris tried to goad him talking about the night Lorelai went over.

[stan4]

Just now, elang4 said:

To be fair, he did do that earlier though when Chris tried to goad him talking about the night Lorelai went over.

He's like my 3 year old daughter.  One poke and she'll be like whatever.  But the second poke sets her off immediately.  Both could use work on their tempers.

[elang4]

1 minute ago, stan4 said:

He's like my 3 year old daughter.  One poke and she'll be like whatever.  But the second poke sets her off immediately.  Both could use work on their tempers.

True but in this instance, I don’t really blame him for storming off. But let’s agree to disagree. ?

[slf]

Lorelai. The first time I watched the show was fairly passive; I didn't really examine any of the characters. I thought Lorelai was a strong role model for her daughter but still laid back, funny, smart, etc. But over time I've come to realize just how controlling she was over Rory, how entitled she is.

While I still think Dean was actually a bad boyfriend I've softened from hating him to just shaking my head whenever I see him. Same with Jess and Tristan. Still despise Logan, tho.

[FictionLover]

14 hours ago, stan4 said:

Luke.

I always like him until I realized that TJ was right (in that scene where Luke is like, "Yeah, it's ok with me if you move to SH" and TJ is like, "Didn't know I needed your permission.") 

He is kind of a dick. 

 

And then all that nonsense at the vow renewal (nut up, dude!), acting like a loon re: Christopher, and, worst of all, the whole April thing.  Jeez.

I Like Luke but also understand this because I became disappointed in his character. He couldn’t “walk the talk”. He said he was “all in” but he bolted at the first sign of a problem. He said “no secrets” but when something happens that might make him look bad, he keeps secrets and lies.

Also, he treated Rachel and Nicole bad by being absent and closed off, causing them to leave him. Then he looks like the injured party. He did it to Lorelai too, pushing her away, and admitted it (not that I condone her reaction to it). Always the martyr, just like Jess said.

We’re suppose to see him as strong and honorable, but his character is actually quite weak and hypocritical. And yet, I still find myself liking him, but totally get it when some fans don’t.

[stan4]

Yeah.  "All in" but bails at the first sign of conflict.  

[Kohola3]

4 hours ago, stan4 said:

"All in" but bails at the first sign of conflict.  

At least it didn't include jumping into bed with the nearest available female.  Gotta give him that.

[elang4]

20 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

At least it didn't include jumping into bed with the nearest available female.  Gotta give him that.

That will always annoy me. Lorelai was so in the wrong there. She knew what Luke was like and how he had to process things. He was never just going to jump and elope. And also that moment made me dislike Chris even more? He would have known Lorelai was upset. He shouldn’t have jumped into bed with her.

[Taryn74]

24 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

At least it didn't include jumping into bed with the nearest available female.  Gotta give him that.

*rim shot*

 

(BTW, I love watching these discussions, even if I don't always agree with everyone.  Just have to throw that in LOL.)

(Editing to add - I actually used rim shot wrong there, ha ha ha.  I got to second guessing myself and looked it up.)

Edited February 21, 2018 by Taryn74

[elang4]

4 minutes ago, Taryn74 said:

*rim shot*

 

(BTW, I love watching these discussions, even if I don't always agree with everyone.  Just have to throw that in LOL.)

(Editing to add - I actually used rim shot wrong there, ha ha ha.  I got to second guessing myself and looked it up.)

Same! I love being involved in the discussion even if people don’t agree with me. :) I find it interesting to see what people do think. :)

[FictionLover]

1 hour ago, Kohola3 said:

At least it didn't include jumping into bed with the nearest available female.  Gotta give him that.

I agree, and stated that in my post. However, Lorelai’s wrongs don’t right Luke’s wrongs.

I enjoy these discussions too :)

[stan4]

I don't know that I agree that there is some agreed-upon code on your behavior once you've broken up with someone.

I think Lorelai was wrong to sleep with Christopher, but not because of anything to do with Luke.  They were broken up.  The Luke part was irrelevant.  She shouldn't have slept with him bc a. gross, b.  learn to deal with your emotions in a healthy way, c. it's not fair to use Chris, knowing the way he feels, d.  consider what this does with Rory's relationship with him, e. ew, etc.

 

Luke said he was ok with eloping when they were at MV.  You know, Sookie said to Lorelai a whole thing about promising to marry someone being as big a commitment as actual marrying them (when she was berating her about setting a date).  I don't agree with that, per se, but I really don't understand AT ALL why June 3 had to be postponed or why Luke was being so ridiculous.

[Kohola3]

I guess my extreme dislike (OK, hatred) of Christopher has something to do with my take on this.

But as for Lorelai, at a time where her life was falling apart (in her mind) she completely skipped the option of turning to the next two most important people in her life - Rory and her best friend Sookie. Instead, as always, she used sex as her means of dealing with the issue a la Christopher Returns - parents yell, she has a quickie out on the balcony.  (Great example for the teens watching this show back then, by the way.)

Luke had dealt with her hysterical tantrums in the past (the whole car accident meltdown) so as far as he knew, she'd calm down and get a grip. Instead she betrays him in the worst possible way.

[Taryn74]

1 hour ago, stan4 said:

I think Lorelai was wrong to sleep with Christopher, but not because of anything to do with Luke.  They were broken up.  The Luke part was irrelevant.

And I maintain that Luke had no idea they were broken up. Lorelai stood in the middle of the street in hysterics, verbally vomited all over him, tossing out such gems as she wanted to elope NOW and she had gone to see Anna and she was tired of trying to figure out how they fit into April's life instead of the other way around she's sick of apologizing and having no opinion and blah blah blah shrieky cakes, and then she said "And I have to go!" and walked off.  

[Kohola3]

Yep, I totally agree.  She didn't give him a chance to break up with her. He had no idea whether or not this was one of her epic tantrums or not.

[chessiegal]

I think the Palladinos sent Lorelai into Christopher's bed as a big FU to the network/studio for not giving them the deal they wanted after Season 6, and the show runners and writers for Season 7 were left with a mess to clean up.

Edited February 22, 2018 by chessiegal

[elang4]

5 hours ago, Taryn74 said:

And I maintain that Luke had no idea they were broken up. Lorelai stood in the middle of the street in hysterics, verbally vomited all over him, tossing out such gems as she wanted to elope NOW and she had gone to see Anna and she was tired of trying to figure out how they fit into April's life instead of the other way around she's sick of apologizing and having no opinion and blah blah blah shrieky cakes, and then she said "And I have to go!" and walked off.  

 

5 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

Yep, I totally agree.  She didn't give him a chance to break up with her. He had no idea whether or not this was one of her epic tantrums or not.

I agree. Luke didn’t think they were broken up so I still say it was cheating.

[Katy M]

They were on a break!  JK.  

I don't think it matters whether she was cheating or not, or whether Luke knew they were broken up or not.

1. Unless you are married, a breakup only needs the consent of one person.  LIke that Seinfeld episode of George's ridiculous girlfriend not accepting the breakup.  Um, well, you can't do that.

2. The remedy for cheating is to break up.  Lorelai had already done that.  And wasn't trying to get back with Luke after, and insisting that she didn't cheat because they were on a break.  The cheating (or not) is irrelevant, because they weren't together after that.  

[stan4]

11 hours ago, Taryn74 said:

And I maintain that Luke had no idea they were broken up. Lorelai stood in the middle of the street in hysterics, verbally vomited all over him, tossing out such gems as she wanted to elope NOW and she had gone to see Anna and she was tired of trying to figure out how they fit into April's life instead of the other way around she's sick of apologizing and having no opinion and blah blah blah shrieky cakes, and then she said "And I have to go!" and walked off.  

He may not have known.

But in *her* mind, they were.

 

Of course it was stupid and dtamatic and nebulous.  That is Lorelai Gilmore.

[Guest]

I think in her mind they were 100% broken up, so it wasn't cheating. But I don't think Luke realized they were broken up, so in his mind it was.  

[elang4]

14 minutes ago, deaja said:

I think in her mind they were 100% broken up, so it wasn't cheating. But I don't think Luke realized they were broken up, so in his mind it was.  

And I think it hurt that it was Christopher because when it came to him, Luke had always been a bit insecure. He knew Lorelai had history with him so I can see why it hurt him. I know this will sound weird but I think if Lorelai has slept with a random guy, they might have been able to get through it. I think it was because it was Chris that everything broke down.

[stan4]

Nothing to "get through."

Lorelai was done.

[Kohola3]

8 minutes ago, stan4 said:

Lorelai was done.

Except, of course, she wasn't.  It was, as always, a sex-solved-everything knee jerk reaction that she ultimately realized was wrong (recalling a certain karaoke scene).

[stan4]

5 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

Except, of course, she wasn't.  It was, as always, a sex-solved-everything knee jerk reaction that she ultimately realized was wrong (recalling a certain karaoke scene).

Nope.  Just like Max x 2...few months down the road and she's bored and sniffing around again.

Aw, maybe he was great.  Maybe I moved too fast.  Maybe Anna is out of the picture.  Maybe my daughter is leaving and I don't have sh** else to do.  Blah blah *insert selfish Lorelai reason here*.