Social Media and Behind the Scenes: AKA Everything Else Not "News and Media"

[Chaser]

Yep.

[Midnight Lullaby]

I'm catching up now and LOL, what a man baby. Also l think if MG is so touchy he might feel the pressure about the show not meeting the expectations and I'm happy about that. I don't believe in rewarding mediocrity.

[Velocity23]

I would say he has more pressure due to Legends than Arrow. LOT will only be at 29 episodes if they dont get more episodes. I think their hope is that TVD/TO both end so they could get a whole season pickup (WB has too many shows, so some have to be sacrificed)

[TwistedandBored]

LMAO! I was on twitter last night and caught some of the drama before I checked out of the Arrow tag.  I couldn't help but laugh. I wasn't mad just amused in thinking the low ratings and complaints about Felicity Mayo BF must have really gotten to MG and company. 

[Ophanim]

MG is maybe EP of Arrow, but I think he isn't that much involved in stories any more. "Legends" is his brainchild. SA itself said now he talks more with WM about storylines, and also I believe all lately comic stuff we're getting in Arrow, we can attribute to Brian Ford Sullivan. He is story editor.

[Sunshine]

I think there might be more pressure due to Legends too.  It's a 2nd year show and Arrow in it's 5th is still doing as well if not better.

Last couple of thoughts on the subject.  MG told jbuffyangel a couple of things. 1. There would be a difficult moment for shippers in 5.01.  2.  5.05 would provide clarity (It did for Oliver at least). 

Spoiler

3.  They were going to slowly rebuild Olicity.

 

He said shippers would have to be patient.  They weren't which might be why it was the last straw for him.

[TwistedandBored]

3 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

I think there might be more pressure due to Legends too.  It's a 2nd year show and Arrow in it's 5th is still doing as well if not better.

Last couple of thoughts on the subject.  MG told jbuffyangel a couple of things. 1. There would be a difficult moment for shippers in 5.01.  2.  5.05 would provide clarity (It did for Oliver at least). 

  Reveal hidden contents

3.  They were going to slowly rebuild Olicity.

 

He said shippers would have to be patient.  They weren't which might be why it was the last straw for him.

I really don't care about what MG says. I have never cared about what writers say only what I see on my screen. However, there will always be those shippers that are inpatient to have their couples back together. He did not have to group all the shippers together and tell them they don't effect the ratings or anything to do with the show. 

[LeighAn]

Did he specifically tell her that though? I thought she was implying stuff  about the rebuild, Oliver becoming the man Felicity needs etc and he nodded along. Thats not really him commiting to anything. A part of me wonders if maybe he didnt play poor Jen. He knows she has influence in the fandom and its not going to be olicitys season so he gives her an "Olicity" tease, seeing that shes excited and knowing shes good at justifying the writers intentions for episodes, he was maybe hoping she would pacify the Olicity shipers for him over an episode he knew wouldnt go down well. And from her twitter feed it seems she is already getting angry accounts tweeting her because of it which is unfair to her.

[EmeraldArcher]

1 minute ago, Sunshine said:

I think there might be more pressure due to Legends too.  It's a 2nd year show and Arrow in it's 5th is still doing as well if not better.

Last couple of thoughts on the subject.  MG told jbuffyangel a couple of things. 1. There would be a difficult moment for shippers in 5.01.  2.  5.05 would provide clarity (It did for Oliver at least). 

  Hide contents

3.  They were going to slowly rebuild Olicity.

 

He said shippers would have to be patient.  They weren't which might be why it was the last straw for him.

But, the people on Twitter last night weren't in ship mode--none of them were clamoring for Olicity to reunite, none of them were complaining about them moving on for now--they were complaining about the huge gaps in the story that seem pretty legitimate:

1. Oliver and Felicity having all the conversations about their break-up off screen (Diggle and Oliver had time to discuss their bromance break-up last year, so why wouldn't Oliver and Felicity?)
2. Felicity getting with Mayo off screen (no time to show viewers anything about their relationship but a few lies, evasions, and lunchtime sex?)
3. Felicity and Oliver not behaving as two people who were almost married only several months ago
4. Felicity not having a story, a job, a POV

I think the issue is that people are reacting to really shitty storytelling that's also affecting their ship, but its shittiness is what's actually being called out.  MG and OB just kept ignoring what people were tweeting about the poor writing because you can discredit anyone simply by calling them a "shipper," right?

[dtissagirl]

What bugs me is the implication that if you are not patient, you're watching it wrong. Naw, son. You don't get to tell me how I watch TV. I'm an actual pro at doing it.

[TwistedandBored]

Just now, dtissagirl said:

What bugs me is the implication that if you are not patient, you're watching it wrong. Naw, son. You don't get to tell me how I watch TV. I'm an actual pro at doing it.

Word. 

[Guest]

MG tweets like he's the greatest writer to ever write and if we don't see that, we're wrong. LOL no.

Also, someone needs to tell him and the writers that annoyance over the ship isn't about being impatient for them to get back together. It's about them being handled appallingly with contrived drama and storylines that make zero sense given what happened between them. Because I'm sorry but my annoyance over Olicity has nothing to do with them not being together and everything to do with it being badly written after being almost married last season. So MG can go bye bye with that mess.

[calliope1975]

9 minutes ago, EmeraldArcher said:

I think the issue is that people are reacting to really shitty storytelling that's also affecting their ship, but its shittiness is what's actually being called out.  MG and OB just kept ignoring what people were tweeting about the poor writing because you can discredit anyone simply by calling them a "shipper," right?

This is exactly it. Olicity and SA/EBR's chemistry allowed me to ignore a lot of really awful story telling. That's gone so what's left to focus on? TPTB's shitty plotting and writing. 

[NumberCruncher]

14 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

What bugs me is the implication that if you are not patient, you're watching it wrong. Naw, son. You don't get to tell me how I watch TV. I'm an actual pro at doing it.

Not only this but it's also a bit disingenuous to then accuse fans of being "entitled" for expressing their displeasure after he spent the last 4 years baiting the shipper crowd.  If he's somehow upset that they feel they deserve something then MG needs a good look in the mirror.  After all, he was the one over on Tumblr all throughout S3 stoking the shipper fires.  He was the one to having heart-to-hearts with jbuffyangel at conventions, fully knowing that she was a die-hard shipper and was going to turn around and write a detailed summary of their conversation to be read by her thousands of shipper followers.  For him to act all indignant at their anger and resentment is rather LOL-worthy.

Edited November 3, 2016 by NumberCruncher

[Midnight Lullaby]

I can be patient when the story is good. The story here is crappy, makes no sense for the most part and if there happens to be a good scene it's because the actors have great chemistry. I don't even know if I want them back together tbh, I just want Felicity to get a POV and her own story.

[Sunshine]

16 minutes ago, EmeraldArcher said:

But, the people on Twitter last night weren't in ship mode--none of them were clamoring for Olicity to reunite, none of them were complaining about them moving on for now--they were complaining about the huge gaps in the story that seem pretty legitimate:

1. Oliver and Felicity having all the conversations about their break-up off screen (Diggle and Oliver had time to discuss their bromance break-up last year, so why wouldn't Oliver and Felicity?)
2. Felicity getting with Mayo off screen (no time to show viewers anything about their relationship but a few lies, evasions, and lunchtime sex?)
3. Felicity and Oliver not behaving as two people who were almost married only several months ago
4. Felicity not having a story, a job, a POV

I think the issue is that people are reacting to really shitty storytelling that's also affecting their ship, but its shittiness is what's actually being called out.  MG and OB just kept ignoring what people were tweeting about the poor writing because you can discredit anyone simply by calling them a "shipper," right?

I don't disagree with any of this.  All I was trying to say is that he might have thought he had placated the shippers and was still getting grief which led to his break point.  His tweet was 2 minutes after the show started IIRC.  In his defense (I can't believe I typed that) most tagged tweets I have seen over the last couple of weeks were about Olicity.  The Felicity specific ones weren't tagging him but I also don't check his mentions that frequently.  I didn't check last night I just saw multiple angry tweets at him in response to his tweet.

[Midnight Lullaby]

9 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

I don't disagree with any of this.  All I was trying to say is that he might have thought he had placated the shippers and was still getting grief which led to his break point.  His tweet was 2 minutes after the show started IIRC.  In his defense (I can't believe I typed that) most tagged tweets I have seen over the last couple of weeks were about Olicity.  The Felicity specific ones weren't tagging him but I also don't check his mentions that frequently.  I didn't check last night I just saw multiple angry tweets at him in response to his tweet.

I have seen tweets tagging the writers/EPs since the break up going on and on about Felicity not having a POV. To those I'd add all those about her lack of a storyline, Havenrock not being done properly, nothing about her job or her plan with the chip from last year..if they think people care only about the relationship it's on them for me.

[dtissagirl]

It bizarrely feels like they're writing romance/non-romance this season specifically towards future binge-watchers on Netflix. When you're binging, you don't get as frustrated with stall tactics -- you can immediately start watching the next episode to see if there's any movement. And then the next, and so on.

But also, there is a whole lot of misogyny involved in assuming that 'shippers [majorly women] "need" to passively accept whatever story the oh so wise men are writing, and if they can't have the patience to do so, it's because watching for the romance is badwrong.

[popgoesculture]

In response to all the Lexi Alexander stuff, I know someone mentioned earlier that there's been talk of the lack of support for diversity in terms of directors on Arrow... (and giving multiple eps to Bamford and Gregory Smith, etc., indicates to me that there is a big issue getting directors of color and/or women directors) but are there any articles about this problem? Is it something with the set's atmosphere? Is Lexi Alexander definitely talking about Arrow? 

[Midnight Lullaby]

9 minutes ago, popgoesculture said:

In response to all the Lexi Alexander stuff, I know someone mentioned earlier that there's been talk of the lack of support for diversity in terms of directors on Arrow... (and giving multiple eps to Bamford and Gregory Smith, etc., indicates to me that there is a big issue getting directors of color and/or women directors) but are there any articles about this problem? Is it something with the set's atmosphere? Is Lexi Alexander definitely talking about Arrow? 

It's impossible to know for sure but Berlanti (I think it was him, but could have been another EP) said something about a specific number of women declining to direct for LoT and she tweeted that women don't want to work in toxic work environments..she used in her tweet the same number Berlanti used so it would be a huge coincidence if she wasn't talking about that. Also there's the odd thing that happened last year with MG saying they called her back to direct and she declined and she saying she wasn't called back. IMO something happened there..

[kismet]

19 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

It bizarrely feels like they're writing romance/non-romance this season specifically towards future binge-watchers on Netflix. When you're binging, you don't get as frustrated with stall tactics -- you can immediately start watching the next episode to see if there's any movement. And then the next, and so on.

Perhaps that is their plan. But I also watched West Wing primarily on binge and their stall tactics with Josh & Donna (esp in later seasons) became frustrating. The biggest difference though was that the story outside of Josh/Donna was good. Even the non-romantic J/D plot was good. So I was frustrated because I wanted them together, but I had other quality to enjoy. Arrow does not have that, and has been struggling for large portions of s3  & s4 to produce that. 

At the end of the day, I can be patient. But I also can be critical, that is my right as a viewer. Arrow is failing to deliver on multiple levels. Honestly, Olicity not being together is the least of their problems. If MG wants to antagonize a whole group of fans, I guess that is his right as well. However, it seems like a really awful strategy. Especially, when in general that group has been supportive of the show.

[dtissagirl]

17 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

Also there's the odd thing that happened last year with MG saying they called her back to direct and she declined and she saying she wasn't called back. IMO something happened there..

MG said they thought about calling Lexi to sub when Antonio Negret dropped an episode, and then before actually calling her, they learned she was busy on Supergirl and wouldn't be able to cover the dates they needed anyway. So they never called her. And that information got crossed, and people asked Lexi if she was called, and well, she wasn't. I think Lexi then just assumed they lied about calling her, and got pissed?

But also, yeah, Berlanti said 20 women directors noped them for LOT, and then Lexi tweeted that when 20 women decline your offer it's because they talk to each other, and nobody wants to work in a fratboy set.

[dtissagirl]

6 minutes ago, kismet said:

Perhaps that is their plan. But I also watched West Wing primarily on binge and their stall tactics with Josh & Donna (esp in later seasons) became frustrating. The biggest difference though was that the story outside of Josh/Donna was good. Even the non-romantic J/D plot was good. So I was frustrated because I wanted them together, but I had other quality to enjoy. Arrow does not have that, and has been struggling for large portions of s3  & s4 to produce that.

I just had a fun experience with extreme cockblocking. I binged 9 seasons of Murdoch Mysteries in the past couple of months, and the single reason I was able to keep going amidst some of THE MOST RIDICULOUS SHIP STALLING I'VE EVER SEEN IN MY LIFE is because I was spoiled, so I knew the main couple would eventually get together and stay together. I was vaguely interested in other stuff going on in the show, but I know in my bones I would have quit in S4 when the main lady got engaged to a rando had I been watching week to week.

[WaitandHope]

Agreed kismet.  I too was a Josh/Donna shipper, but The West Wing was an extraordinary show and shipping only added to my enjoyment.  And I also loved Buffy/Angel, and Veronica/Logan.  But, again, I felt like those were actually good shows and the writers wanted me as their audience for the primary stories, and, therefore, wrote stories I would care about, irrespective of the romance.  

But who am I kidding?  I mostly watch Arrow for Olicity and the character of Felicity.  It's not a particularly good show - nor one I am proud of watching.  Sure, I like Oliver, but I've only ever loved his character when he started loving Felicity.  I will continue to shadow you guys around here, but I think I'm done watching the show until the crossovers.   Those will at least be event storytelling.  Maybe not good storytelling, but worthy of watching the shows, I think.    Then I will wait to watch if there is some shipper hope later in the season.  Despite it's darkness, this is a silly show, which doesn't really have much to say of social relevance or artistic pertinence, especially because they have never made OQ the social crusader of the comic books .  It's one thing when its fantasy and silliness was catering to me, but it's another when it's catering to mysoginistic fanboys.   I'm not on twitter, but Guggenheim really pissed me off with his comment.  Screw him.  I think I will stop watching altogether.  It's like he dared me to, and I accept.   

[looptab]

Does anyone have SS for that fan's convo with  Guggenheim? For some reason my phone says it doesn't support it and I can't see it.

[MariaHill]

2 hours ago, kismet said:

The biggest difference though was that the story outside of Josh/Donna was good. Even the non-romantic J/D plot was good. So I was frustrated because I wanted them together, but I had other quality to enjoy. Arrow does not have that, and has been struggling for large portions of s3  & s4 to produce that. 

And in those later WW seasons Donna got actual *individual character development*, which is my main gripe right now w/r/t Felicity. 

[kismet]

@MariaHill,  I'm beginning to believe that individual or group character development is not something Arrow writers do... It doesn't fit into their agenda of organic, game-changing, epic, melodramatic, plot driven, mask wearing extravaganza that Arrow has become.

I think I fell in love with the wrong show. I'm just waiting for the special moment the show pulls off its Mission Impossible inspired mask and proves itself to be a dumb show about plot & masks. I think that moment is quickly approaching or perhaps it will be that special crossover coming up.

[Sasha]

2 hours ago, kismet said:

 

I think I fell in love with the wrong show. I'm just waiting for the special moment the show pulls off its Mission Impossible inspired mask and proves itself to be a dumb show about plot & masks. I think that moment is quickly approaching or perhaps it will be that special crossover coming up.

Don't you watch the flashbacks? The pilot? Adding Diggle and Felicity changed Arrow from a dumb show about plots and masks. Take away OTA and the show sucks. We are never going to get that back. Just the three of them. That show is gone. Oliver's growth is over. He is now the mentor for the newbies. Diggle and Felicity are just two of many supporting characters. This is back to basics. I think they've made that pretty clear. 

Edited November 3, 2016 by Sasha

[SmallScreenDiva]

The Daily Top Five from Nielsen Social is no longer available to just anybody. It's asking for company details, position, industry, etc. Anyone have access and can/is willing to share? Wonder if our good friends from Arrow made it to the top 5 last night. 

[Morrigan2575]

@catrox14 may know better but, I think this is the first time this season they ran an Arrow ad during SPN.

Edited November 4, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[tv echo]

[dtissagirl]

LOL, Carly, like, great for you that you got a job, but this is on the showrunners, not the fans. Because TPTB are the ones completely blind to the fact that the response to temp LIs is never ever good, or positive, or healthy. And it will never ever be.

Edited November 4, 2016 by dtissagirl

[Mellowyellow]

Are people raging at her (if so that's very wrong) or is she just posting passive aggressive messages randomly (if so very unprofessional!).

[calliope1975]

Just now, dtissagirl said:

LOL, Carly, like, great for you that you got a job, but this is on the showrunners, not the fans. Because TPTB are the ones completely blind to the fact that the response to temp LIs is never ever good, or positive, or healthy. And it will never ever be.

When I saw that tweet last night, I was all oh honey no, don't comment. Just ignore the hate I'm sure she's getting. Responding isn't going to win anyone over. 

[lemotomato]

13 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Are people raging at her (if so that's very wrong) or is she just posting passive aggressive messages randomly (if so very unprofessional!).

She tweeted one of the articles with SA talking about 

Spoiler

Susan as a LI

and got lots of people replying with "no thanks". So I wouldn't say that she was unprovoked, but she should have done the smarter thing and just ignored them.

Edited November 4, 2016 by lemotomato

[Carrie Ann]

1 minute ago, lemotomato said:

She tweeted one of the articles with SA talking about 

  Hide contents

Susan as a LI

and got lots of people replying with "no thanks". So I wouldn't say that she was unprovoked, but she should have  done the smarter thing and just ignored them, because now it's escalating.

Aww, that's kind of a bummer if people are escalating, because I actually thought this second tweet was kind of endearing.

[apinknightmare]

I looked at the comments, and it doesn't seem like people are being nasty to her - they seem pretty supportive of her in the replies to the second tweet - they're just being nasty to each other (and keeping her in the @s). 

[Cleanqueen]

Someone asked her if she shipped olicity and she replied "is that a trick question" and they only asked because she said she liked Darvey from suits. For her own interests she should've ignored that, I think that got some ppl riled up. Also you don't want to anger a large fanbase who is feeling pretty down lately. 

[Chaser]

My rule of thumb: if you are hired as a temp LI, you always side with the show's ship. You can joke about it (see Tyler Ritter), but never act like the ship is a real thing (BR never acted like Ray and Felicity was anything but a stall).

I did laugh at the second tweet. Also at the fact that they don't follow each on SM.

Edited November 4, 2016 by Chaser
clarification

[looptab]

How did BR act? I remember the poor guy tweeting positively about Olicity during S3 premiere, but not much else.

[Chaser]

5 minutes ago, looptab said:

How did BR act? I remember the poor guy tweeting positively about Olicity during S3 premiere, but not much else.

Yeah, I realized that would be read two different ways. I clarified a bit.

After these two episodes, I've come to the conclusion that I'm going to be watching Arrow from afar until I get something substantial on Diggle and Felicity. I'm still okay with the first three episodes but I'm struggling with what the Eps are saying and putting on the screen.

Diggle coming back to be a sounding board for Wild Dog. Felicity getting boyfriend only because Oliver needs a reason to move on. Havenrock getting a little bow. I know that Olicity is getting back together but I have no plot line to follow on the characters I care about and I can't watch Oliver just get go thru the motions.

I'm kind of worried that if I watch it will taint whatever reunion Olicity has. Best to detach a bit so I have a clean slate if they get back on track.

[Ophanim]

Digression, but OMG, I remembered almost the same scenario regarding Guggenheim and his famous tweeting/understanding about own show aka currently trending word "regression". This is article from last year: nothing has change. 

[popgoesculture]

On 11/3/2016 at 1:26 PM, Midnight Lullaby said:

It's impossible to know for sure but Berlanti (I think it was him, but could have been another EP) said something about a specific number of women declining to direct for LoT and she tweeted that women don't want to work in toxic work environments..she used in her tweet the same number Berlanti used so it would be a huge coincidence if she wasn't talking about that. Also there's the odd thing that happened last year with MG saying they called her back to direct and she declined and she saying she wasn't called back. IMO something happened there..

Thanks so much for letting me know! Does anyone know if these tweets are posted anywhere? I don't really want to search through her Twitter feed, but I am kind of intrigued if she's subtly critiquing the shows.

I loved Lexi's direction of Supergirl and Arrow, and I'm bummed that she'll most likely never come back. I'm surprised she didn't direct the Flash, considering her and AK are friends/friendly, as she's mentioned in interviews. 

[TwistedandBored]

7 hours ago, Chaser said:

My rule of thumb: if you are hired as a temp LI, you always side with the show's ship.

This is what CL did and it is one of the reasons why so many Olicity fans respect her for it. 

[Primal Slayer]

9 hours ago, dtissagirl said:

LOL, Carly, like, great for you that you got a job, but this is on the showrunners, not the fans. Because TPTB are the ones completely blind to the fact that the response to temp LIs is never ever good, or positive, or healthy. And it will never ever be.

It's on both. The actress shouldn't get any hate on her social media. 

[Thundercatmary]

From what I saw the hate was towards the character not the actress, at least from what I saw.

That being said I don't think she's necessarily handled this well but that's just my opinion.

[Primal Slayer]

11 minutes ago, Thundercatmary said:

From what I saw the hate was towards the character not the actress, at least from what I saw.

That being said I don't think she's necessarily handled this well but that's just my opinion.

How should she have handled it? She was nice and trying to make truce.

[BkWurm1]

45 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

How should she have handled it? She was nice and trying to make truce.

Something different than what was essentially don't blame me I just work here, lol.  Unless she could agree with the posters, it was going to come off a bit defensive.  Probably just shouldn't have engaged at all.

Edited November 5, 2016 by BkWurm1

[Primal Slayer]

Just now, BkWurm1 said:

Something different than don't blame me I just work here, lol.  Unless she could agree with the posters, it was going to come off a bit defensive.  Probably just shouldn't have engaged at all.

She shouldn't have to agree with them just for them to be happy. It is just work for her. Maybe if she was putting down Olicity, then I could see it but she does just work there getting them coins lol. If anything, MG should take some tips from her in how to deal with social media.

[BkWurm1]

Just now, Primal Slayer said:

She shouldn't have to agree with them just for them to be happy. It is just work for her. Maybe if she was putting down Olicity, then I could see it but she does just work there getting them coins lol. If anything, MG should take some tips from her in how to deal with social media.

That's what I'm saying, if she doesn't agree with the posters complaining about not looking forward to a temp LI (which is what she was hired as), there's nothing she can say that is going to make them happy so yeah, not engaging would have probably been her best bet.